McCall Gathering 2007, Part 49

This entry is part 49 of 54 in the series McCall Gathering 2007

The Eternal Head

Power is the easiest thing to misuse. The reformer, Martin Luther, was grumbling about how the pope and everybody in government were misusing their power and then when he got a little bit of power he did the same thing and this happens again and again and again. If you study history almost everybody that becomes a totalitarian leader, king or dictator becomes corrupt. Can you think of one person with total power in history that was not corrupt?
Audience: What do you mean total?

JJ: Where he was like a king and had life and death power over everybody in his realm, can you think of one? Can you think of one king or ruler that had total power that did not use it unjustly?

Audience: George Washington

JJ: He had the opportunity to become king but refused; therefore, he never had total power over people’s lives.  Let’s imagine he would have accepted total power – then within a couple years he may have been cutting off people’s heads and burning people at the stake too; but George Washington deserves a tremendous amount of credit because he was the first one I know of in history that offered to give up total power. It’s as if the people said, “We are going to give you a lottery, George, because you won the war for independence for us and so we are going to give you total power.”

George Washington said, “No I do not want it – we are just going to establish a presidency instead and we are going to have elections and so on.” He did not accept the position of absolute power of a king and they would have happily given him that position if he had accepted it. But even if a noble man like George Washington would have accepted it then who knows what the country would have been like after five years.

Audience: What about Solomon?

JJ: He had 700 wives and 300 concubines.  He went kind of crazy there didn’t he?

Audience: Laughter!

Audience: What about somebody like Marcus Aurelius? (Emperor of Rome 161-180 considered the last of the good emperors)

JJ: You know that is who I was thinking of and that is probably one of the best examples of someone with total power that used it wisely, I am sure he made mistakes and I have not studied his life in detail but from what I do know about it he was the best emperor that Rome ever had. He was a philosophical emperor and the people loved him and he was one of the few and I cannot think of anybody else, can you think of anybody else?

Audience: That was the only one that came to mind.

JJ: Yes that was the only one that came to my mind as well.

Audience; there are some characters in the Book of Mormon, that if that history is true, they did pretty well, king Benjamin, Mosiah, and what we do know is that they were considered just men.

JJ: The Book of Mormon makes an interesting statement, it says, “It would be of good if you had a king if you could be assured that you could have a righteous king”. But because there is no way to be assured that you can have a righteous king then the best type of government is an elected type government. So they created what they called a reign of judges, which scattered the power amongst a number of individuals rather than give totalitarian power, which was wise for that people. I believe that is a true statement.

If we could have a king like Marcus Aurelius that was a wise person and a philosopher then everybody in the kingdom would be happy and there would be little bureaucracy. The emperor could just give the command and the right thing is done. The advantage of a dictator is he can override the bureaucracy. Now the problem we have with our government is that we have too much bureaucracy and this slows everything down and makes everything less efficient and in many cases takes all but a few pennies from every tax dollar we give just to support it.

So absolute power corrupts and would most likely even corrupt a man like George Washington but a handful would not be corrupted. Lets take Abraham Lincoln. He pretty much had absolute power during the civil war because of the war powers granted to him and he performed even greater than Marcus Aurelius did. Lincoln did some controversial things back then. Today people think George W. Bush is bad, but when the press revealed war details and things like that they were not supposed to reveal, Lincoln had them put in jail. Could imagine if Bush had the editor of the New York Times put in jail?

Abraham Lincoln could not do today what he did during the Civil War. He did away with Habeas Corpus, he had mail opened and other things. I find it interesting that he is looked upon as our greatest president. After the Civil War he gave the power back to where it was supposed to be. He was like George Washington who gave the power back to the people after the revolutionary war and Lincoln gave the power back after the Civil War because he did not need it any more. But he could have established a dictatorship because he had so many powers given to him and if he had been a lesser man then we would not have the country that we have today.

Hercules overcame the hydra by kneeling. He found that when he cut off one head, two heads grew in its place and when he fought it directly it became stronger. When we fight our lower emotions like anger – when we try to overcome anger, jealousy, pride by fighting them – then it just makes it worse and it does not really help. To overcome these emotions Hercules had to go beneath the serpent of illusion with all these negative glamors and emotions and lift it up into the air.

The air represents the mind and the soul and when the soul comes into play then all the lower emotions are handled and what is interesting about it is that it is so much easier! All we have to do is achieve soul contact. Then the lower emotions are under our control and no longer a problem with the exception of one, power. Even after soul contact we still have power to deal with. Even Lucifer who went beyond the range of being a master let power get the best of him.

Maybe even God himself has a problem with power, who knows?  He’s not going to confess to us. Power itself is eternal and, in other words, the problem with power. We hear about the wars among the gods and there are different legends in different cultures about how the gods are at war with each other over power so it an interesting thought that power is an eternal struggle even among the highest lives in the universe, even among those who we call the gods and even among the good guys who can also be corrupted by power.

We know that one higher than a master was corrupted by power so its an eternal head that always comes back to haunt us. It is like the founding fathers said, “Freedom must be won by eternal vigilance”. Corrupt power takes away freedom. Somebody seeking unjust power takes away freedom and keeping a lid on this eternal head does require eternal vigilance to a dimension that people do not realize. We think in terms of a lifetime but it is eternal and for the life of this universe there will be a struggle for power from one side or another.

This struggle for power brings the power of decision into play, so decision is always at play and so we always have to choose which side of power we want to get on and the choice always comes down to: which path will give us the most freedom? And where the most freedom lies is where we must make our choice. The side that is corrupting power will always tell us that they are on the side of freedom. Both sides will always claim to be on the side of freedom but one side really will be on the side of freedom and one side is merely using it as a way to get power. That is pretty much an eternal struggle that we will always have to worry about.

Audience: When Hercules did the labor in Gemini he also held up the multi headed serpent. Was that the same as he did here with the hydra?

JJ: It is a little bit different, the one in Gemini was destroyed by light, in other words, enlightenment was what destroyed that one. This one is destroyed by the power of the soul, which is different. You cannot destroy anger and the lower emotions by light. You can be enlightened and still have the problem of getting angry, jealous and so on but you destroy it by raising your consciousness up to the soul and the soul brings down the higher feeling which replaces the lower feelings. In the first story light replaced darkness and this time higher feelings replaced lower feelings. The feelings of the soul are much higher and they are so much more desirable. The key is to put the bad feelings in their place and replace them with the higher feelings.

Audience: But he did hold the hydra in the air, but that didn’t kill it?

JJ: It killed all the heads except the immortal one, which is the head of power.

Audience: And that one he cut off and hid it under a rock and he was to just ignore it, so the hydra is dead?

JJ: Yes the hydra is all but dead except for the immortal head that was cut off. So the hydra is dead because the disciple has lifted it up to the soul and the soul feelings replace the lower feelings and he no longer has a problem with the lower feelings like anger. It does not mean that anger is impossible it means that when he gets angry that he can direct it to harmlessness.

Like I have always said, if you get angry at somebody you can do three things, you can do physical harm to them, you can walk away and ignore it which is also harmful because it creates suppression in you, or you can tell the person, look when you said this to me it hurt my feelings and this communicates how you feel and releases the negativity from you. Anger is controlled by directing it to an intelligent harmless end so if I feel angry towards someone and I tell them, you did this and I felt like hurting you but I am not going to and this is how I felt, I felt like slapping you silly but I am not going to do it because I am trying to control myself here. So you have communicated with the person how you feel without slapping them.

Under the power of the soul you direct the lower emotions to harmlessness so that their power for negativity has died except for the one for power. To manage power you seal it under a rock so it does not have any power to cause you to misuse it yourself but you know it is still there and you cannot eliminate it completely. Even with the light of the soul it is possible that you may go back and lift that rock up and take a look at the head one more time. It is always there to be a thorn in your side.

If you win the lottery and you say here is what I am going to with it, I am going to give half to charity and then I am going to use the other half for this and you have it all laid out as to how you are going to use it and if you use this power correctly, you have put the immortal head of power under a rock so that it can’t do any damage to anybody. But then say time goes on and you think, you know I still have ten million dollars left and I could a lot of interesting things with this. I think I will exercise a little power over my nephew by manipulating him with this money. You may get these thoughts coming back into your mind and use the power incorrectly. Even though it has been under a rock for some time the disciple knows that, that power is there available to misuse and the temptation is always there lingering in the back round.

Audience: When does it come out because if it is eternal and the rock is not then either it will come out by removing the rock or it will come out because the rock will eventually fade away?

JJ: The rock never completely fades away for it is created by eternal will. The point is that you just know that it is there and the power is available and one of the qualities of a master is that He has power but he does not misuse it, He does not take more power than he needs but he knows that he could. He is the master of all these things, he is the master of all these mantras that he could use to destroy with and wreak great havoc and according to DK a master could really create a lot of problems if He misused his powers. It is always there and He could never take away from His consciousness the fact that He could misuse His power and generally for eons the master will keep it under control but the one who is Lucifer who became even higher than a master may have kept himself under control for millions of years and then he thought, well I think God is messing things up and I need to take a bit more power in my hands but it is for a good cause.

Audience: That is what DK ties together when He is talking about harmlessness but He also talks about the right use of power.

JJ: Yes, right use of power.

Audience: So what stops him (Lucifer) is that he is supposed to be one those mental plane dark brothers like you talked about in Book 4 of the Immortal?

JJ: He can descend to the lower mental plane.

Audience: What is to stop him from entering the physical? Is it because he has lost touch with the soul?

JJ: Well he has a lot of power that reflects to the dark brothers and the dark brothers know quite a number of words of power thanks to the fallen brother that carries these words with him and he may have a number of things that he has not even revealed to the dark brothers because maybe he has his own personal set of morality, who knows?

Audience: What is the illusion of their power and what could they actually do?

JJ: Well for one thing the typical Christian sees the devil under every rock and of course there are a lot of older ladies in the Christian world that prick themselves with a needle by accident and they say, oh the devil made me do that. DK says that the average person does not even get the attention of a dark brother. They may have people under them that use and manipulate the masses but as far as paying individual attention to grandma over there who is knitting a sweater or something they do not do that.

What is going on with grandmas and the typical Christian is entirely of their own making. In Mormonism they say that there are a whole bunch of devils all around and they whisper in our ear everyday and tell us what to do and give us all these temptations. All these temptations come pretty much from our own desire and our own thinking with what we ourselves have conjured up. Now if a person is a quality person with capability and talent then sometimes the dark brothers will go after that person and appeal to his lower emotions and try to make a disciple out of him. They do not go after just anybody.

Audience: What is the most powerful thing they can do?

JJ: You mean to hurt somebody?

Audience: Like when you said in the immortal about Joe when the Christ came into him so he felt like he could just evaporate an entire mountain, that kind of power.

JJ: That is on the side of light, of course, and you are asking about the dark side?

Audience: Yes, how much power, can the dark brothers yield?

JJ: Okay for one thing we have a protective mechanism in us and we have to open the door before darkness can have any control over us. If you are on the side of light and in the soul they may want to destroy you but they cannot get to you directly unless you open the door. So unless you open that door they can’t get in but if you open that door then they can get in and seek to destroy you. If they cannot destroy you and you are on a mission of some sort then they will seek to influence those around you so they can distract you from your mission. You will find that many of the great souls in human history had people around them that went somewhat berserk and this it made it very difficult for the disciple to concentrate on what they were supposed to do.

A great example is Abraham Lincoln. His wife was a real bitch and she was always almost spending them into bankruptcy; she was very emotional and could not control her emotions. One time they were at a party and she took a pie and threw it right in his face in front of everybody. She was really a force to be reckoned with. Historians say Abraham Lincoln was our greatest president and his wife was our worst first lady. So we had the greatest and the worst put together. She was a big distraction for the guy and after he was killed she went insane. So I think that the dark brothers, even though she was not the type of person that would not be of much use to them – they tried to stop Abraham Lincoln and they could not get to him directly because he did not open the door – but they tried to get to his wife and probably other people around him.

There are all kinds of theories about conspiracies but they say a number of the conspirators that were in on the assassination of him were very close to him. And so apparently the dark brothers got to some of them. They tried to manipulate his wife. They did everything possible to stop him from winning the Civil War, saving the union, freeing the slaves and making the big advance for humanity.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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McCall Gathering 2007, Part 32

This entry is part 32 of 54 in the series McCall Gathering 2007

Descent into Madness

JJ: Now it is a common thing among Christians to say, God picks the humble people in the field who do not know anything and He sends them out to accomplish great things. Usually when that happens it is most likely somebody who is very skilled in many areas from past lives and he is just in a humble state. If you examine the great people that came from humble back rounds, like say like Abraham Lincoln for instance, you find that they have great minds. I know when one person came to interview Lincoln and as I told you before the New York Times and all the papers just hated the guy and portrayed him as an ape and things like this.

Well a reporter came to visit him one time and Lincoln was explaining to him that he liked to go to plays and the reporter asked him what one of his favorite plays was, I cannot remember the name of it but it was by Shakespeare. Lincoln quoted him two or three pages, word for word from one of the plays from Shakespeare and the guy was just amazed and astounded and very impressed because he was under the impression that Lincoln was not that bright. People under estimated Lincoln. He was very well educated but self taught and memorized a lot of things and not only things of culture like Shakespeare but he had a repertoire of stories you would not believe.

He had stories about everything. He collected stories and whenever he would get together in a room with people he would say, that reminds me of a story and he would tell some type of story that would bring his point home. The stories were powerful because people can understand them, especially a story with humor behind it. There is no better way to destroy your enemies than to make them look silly and Lincoln had the capacity to do that.

So the true disciples of the world, when you examine them, are very intelligent and learned in their own way. Many of them are not educated in the normal way but are well educated.

Lincoln did not go to a regular school. He mostly educated himself and he had an enormous grasp of knowledge in many different areas that surprised his enemies. Back then all they had was the more elementary communication, not like today where have information at our fingertips.

So all they knew about Lincoln was what they read in the papers and they also had these little paperback rags that were like mini National Enquirers of that day with stories that were circulated about him and other people famous people. Some of it was true and some of it was not. You never knew what was true and what was false back in that day. It is easier to find the truth today. There are a lot more untruths put out but the seeker today can find the truth on the Internet or through other sources if he is willing to look. Unfortunately most people are lazy and if a lot of propaganda bombards them most will just believe it. The few who seek, however, can discover the truth if they s o desire.

Audience: Was Lincoln a walk in where a Master uses his body to do work here with mankind?

JJ: I mentioned that yesterday that I really think he was a walk in. If we have enough time later I will go into this more but for now I would like to cover the labors.

It is also said that Hercules killed a lion when he was young and he wore the lion’s skin throughout his entire life until he slew the Nemean lion. The lion skin represents the personality so he kept the personality within him even though he was functioning as a disciple. He did not destroy the personality but he wore it on him so to speak.

Another story about Hercules is kind of interesting we are told that he went mad for a period of time and killed those he loved. This is symbolic of the disciple when he gets some spiritual energy before he performed the labors when he was aspiring to become a disciple. He points out that when a charge of spiritual energy goes into someone that is unprepared for it, especially when they get it for the first time, that they have hard time handling it and drives them somewhat mad.

I have seen this happen in a number of people that I have even personally taught. You teach them and they get very enthused and then they get wild eyed and get the weirdest ideas you have ever heard of. Fortunately I have not had anybody go and kill his or her family! But what they will do is symbolically kill their family in the fact that they will alienate their family and also their friends because they go a little mad and get some wild-eyed ideas.

For instance I have noticed that when I have taught reincarnation to people that did not know about it earlier and when I teach it to them they get very enthused about it and then not long after they begin to wonder who they were. At first they think they could have been a follower of say Moses or Jesus or maybe they were one of the twelve apostles and then a little bit later some begin to think that maybe they were actually Jesus and next they think maybe they were actually the God of Jesus and they just keep going higher and higher!

Audience: Chuckling

JJ: One guy I taught thinks he is the god of the galaxy and I have not seen him for a while and he probably thinks he is the god of the universe by now. Where he goes from there I do not know but he just keeps going higher and higher. It is amazing how the ego takes over.

Some of these people I have taught in the past definitely had a flow of spiritual energy come to them and they knew that certain things were true and then they turned to madness. Just like Hercules when he received a little spiritual energy he went insane for a period of time.

This often happens to the beginning disciple and he expands into illusion. If he has the ego there then that ego begins to expand the illusion from being a humble guy to a disciple to an apostle to Jesus, to Christ to the god of the world and so on. Some people go the other direction in illusion and think he was Hitler, or the devil and so on because some people have fantasies about being a super bad guy. Then other people have fantasies about being the super good guy.

One of the greatest statements that DK said is this, “True humility is recognizing where you are on the path and acting accordingly.” Once we can do this then we have made a major step in our progression. Almost everybody either thinks they are farther along the path then they are or farther back on the path.

Audience: I think a lot of that comes from if you touch your soul and realize that it is truly grandiose that if affects people in that way because you do touch on greatness and then the personality thinks that it must be great.

JJ: That could be part of it. It is interesting on Susan’s and Sterling’s list that a lot of them think they were somebody great in the past. There is a really big competition there and the problem is these people that are on the forum are ex-Mormons and ex-Mormons are a very unusual bunch. Many have very powerful egos.

Now in the Mormon Church there is a prophecy of one mighty and strong that will come forth and set the kingdom of God in order. After many of them are ex-communicated they think that they must the one that is mighty and strong because the church did not see things their way so they need to set the church in order and be like a Moses.

I have not met one of them that are mighty or strong in any possible way. Most of them have maybe two followers at the most and they all seem to gravitate towards this list that Susan and Sterling have for the ex-Mormons that want to struggle and receive more light.

Some of the people post some interesting things on there but much of it is competition to see who is the one mighty and strong or who is the god of the world or who is the new Jesus. They seem to go back and forth trying to make claims that they are the new mighty and strong one.

This one guy has an interesting story. He does not believe in reincarnation but he believes he is a time traveler and he thinks that he, is all the great people in history, and he fluctuates from one life to the other. He was Adam, Elijah, Moses, the Holy Spirit incarnate, Michael and others. We are all supposed to submit to him and no one does so he is angry and has condemned all of us to hell because he is god and has the authority to do it.

He condemned me to be a son of perdition after I asked him a few questions. He said I have never done this to anyone before but you are denying the Holy Spirit because I am the holy spirit and you are condemned to be a son of perdition for eternity. I thought Ohhh, you scare me so much! Laughing!

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: there are strange people out there. I have encountered other people who want me to be there spokesman because they say they are Moses. Then there are people like Jim Jones who had everybody drink the poison Kool-Aid and David Koresh who withstood the FBI and what he thought was Armageddon and all these things happened because once a person becomes tapped into a bit of spiritual energy the Herculean person goes through a period of madness for a period of time. If he has a whole bunch of people under his control then those people are in danger.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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McCall Gathering, 2007, Part 27

This entry is part 27 of 54 in the series McCall Gathering 2007

Humor and Unselfishness

JJ: What are some of the other distinctions between the light and the dark?

Audience: The dark brothers are totally selfish and self-serving and the Brotherhood of Light is the exact opposite.

JJ: Light is selfless and dark selfish. Now, on the other hand, does the person who is selfish ever admit he is selfish? No it is like a maze trying to figure out who is who because they both say a lot of the same things. Not only will the dark brother talk about how selfless and virtuous and how much he has given to charity and how of this and that, that he has done but his acolytes will also praise him and say, oh Mr. Smith, he has done so much for the service of humanity. Maybe the guy is just totally selfish and what he has done with his selfishness is he has not given of himself but he has manipulated events and used other people’s money to buy the appearance of virtue. He will take other people’s money and build something with it and put his name on it and everyone will think that this guy gave us this bridge and he is a wonderful person.

There are politicians in Washington with dozens and dozens of buildings, monuments and bridges that are named after them and all they did was take other people’s money and buy it for us and it did not cost them one penny out their own pocket. As they take other people’s money to build the building to put their name on it they are increasing our taxes. If you want to look for the selfish politicians then I would look for the ones with the most buildings with their names on them.

The unselfish politicians will not care if a building has their name on it for what they care about is to get something done that will benefit this country and the people. You will find that this politician does not give a rat’s behind about whether or not a building has his name on it or not. I have found that the best politicians rarely have a building named after them until after they die and then somebody else does it for him.

Selfishness, the difficult part of all of these is the dark brother present himself as light like it says in the Bible – Satan himself presents himself as an angel of light. The selfish brother presents himself as altruistic and virtuous because he has managed to give his constituents all this stuff. I am a wonderful person because I give you this stuff, but he did not give it to us, he gave it to us with other people’s money.

When somebody says he will give you free stuff, I say that when they reach in their own pocket and pay for it with their own money then I think that is unselfish. If he did it with his own money, his own power and his own work and did it to benefit other people not using other people’s money then that is what I call unselfishness. So when a politician gets in an area of great influence and is able to buy stuff and put his name on buildings, bridges, libraries and such and get a lot of credit for being virtuous on other people’s hard work, I do not call this unselfish. I call it selfish because he is selfishly using other people’s money to build up his own ego.

Okay what other differences do we have?

Audience: I think the dark side is humorless and the light is joyful with humor.

JJ: Light side is joyful and has humor and dark is opposite. DK Himself points this out that the brotherhood of light has a good sense of humor and when you first begin to read his book you wonder if He has any sense of humor himself but once you get into it and study Him then you see some subtle little things he says which kind of make you chuckle every once in a while.

Take a look at Hitler, for instance. Whenever you see him talking he was so dead serious when he got up to speak with his body language and his voice, I can’t understand what he is saying and I would like to hear a clip where it is translated to see what he is actually saying. Every speech I have seen of Hitler, he sounds like he is mad at his dog or something. He sounds completely humorless and one of the things the allies did in World War II was they made fun of Hitler. They made jokes about him and made these films where they contorted Hitler and made him look like he was doing all this funny weird stuff and they would show the films in the theaters just to make fun of him and the whole audience would laugh and a lot people thought Hitler actually did this stuff. Hitler was manipulated in films to all kinds of crazy stuff like falling off of chairs and stuff like that. I am sure if Hitler ever knew about it that it probably really drove him crazy. It would be interesting for somebody to compile those old films, I have read about them but I have never actually seen them.

What is interesting between light and dark is that light has more than one meaning. In light we think of a light like this one right here but there is also light as in opposite of heavy. The dark brothers are heavy with their feelings and their thoughts are just sooo serious. The Brotherhood of Light is light in their thoughts and they are more carefree. Annie was something about how they go slow quickly. How was that worded Annie?

Annie: They hurry slowly.

JJ: They hurry slowly. In other words, the impression I got was that they have a deadline but they do not pursue the deadline with a state of hurriedness; they do it in a state of relaxation. Now often times when people have deadline it just drives them crazy and they get really nervous and uptight about it but the Brotherhood of light says, just relax, everything will be fine, concentrate and if you give yourself the right amount of time then you can pace yourself and be relaxed, move forward step by step and you can have your mission accomplished. Now the dark brothers are entirely different, it has to be done at a certain time or you die.

Audience: Laughter!

JJ: The mob is an extension of the dark brothers and you see these movies about them and what happens if the guy in the mob does not perform on time?

Audience: He gets whacked!

JJ: Yes, he gets hit over the head with a baseball bat or choked or shot or stabbed or tortured or fire placed under him or something crazy happens to the poor guy who does not perform or who does not get the good guy or whatever. So it is interesting how light applies in more ways than just brightness.

After Curtis and I were excommunicated we spent a number of times trying to enlighten the Mormons which is the hardest thing I have ever attempted in my life. We would go around and visit certain ones and the ones that bothered us the most we called them the squeaky clean ones. In other words, it looked like they had just got out of the shower and completely groomed no matter what time of day it was. The squeaky clean ones were always very serious and when we met with them and we presented what we thought were some of the problems in the church, they would talk to us like this, very slowly and in a deep voice, “Oh brother you know you are on dangerous ground here and you know that Satan has got a hold of you and that you can suffer very dark consequences if you continue upon this path.” They talk slowly deliberately and they are always squeaky clean. These types of guys really talk this way and they are washed, clean, groomed and I swear they have shaved within the past hour, all of them!

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: I always seem to have some stubble going on and I cannot get shaved like these squeaky clean ones. I found that interesting that I always found them to be in the squeaky clean category, now look at Dan over here, he would never fit in the squeaky clean category!

Audience: Laughter!

JJ: You look at him and he is mellow. He has an old T-shirt on and he is never really clean shaven entirely, and these are the type of guys that I find that I really trust a lot more than the ones who have that air of authority about them like, “I am in charge and I have authority here.” This type of guy is always rubbing me the wrong way.

Audience: I had a missionary come over to my house once and I could not get rid of him and I said you can excommunicate me please, please and then finally I said you ought to get laid and that did it he left after that.

JJ: If you want to get rid of them even faster give them my little booklet called Mormonism and Reincarnation. They will hold that in their hand like it is going to start on fire and they will get out of there really fast. Just say that you want to talk about it, for it has some scriptures proving that Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation.

It works with the Jehovah witnesses too. I use the Bible and Reincarnation with them. They come in and I say yes I have a little thing here that proves reincarnation in the Bible and I will take your literature and you take mine and they have the same reaction. It is like it is hot to their touch. It is funny during that time period that Curtis and I tried to enlighten the Mormons, we would give them some of our material and then come back and ask them if they read it. They would always give us the same answer and can you guess what that answer is?

Audience: No

JJ: What did they do with it, Curtis?

Curtis: Burned it.

JJ: Burned it. Nine times out of ten they would say that they burned it. And we would ask them, why did you burn it? They would say well somebody else could have got it out of the garbage and I did not want anybody to ever see that so we burned it. Even some of my family members told me that they burned some of my stuff. No they just did not throw it away they had to actually create a fire burn it to make sure no one would ever read it. It is amazing how many people told us that and it about blew us away and we would have never predicted that is what they would have done. But after it happened again and again we began not to be surprised when they told us that they burned our words and works.

Audience: There is a spiritual open house in New York City and I got off the subway and here was some kind of weird Christian fundamentalist group and he talked about energy pulses confirming something about the Virgin Mary and said well that is interesting, here is a spiritual event that is coming up and within two seconds after I handed him the pamphlet he was crumbling it up and throwing it away.

JJ: I can imagine, at a family reunion a while back I gave a copy of the Immortal to Curtis’s brother who was still in the Mormon Church and he did not want to refuse it because he did not want to hurt my feelings but he just could not hold it steady in his hand. It was like it was warm or hot in his hand or something. Strange.

When I visit my family members and look in their library the Immortal is never there even though I have given them all a copy. It is funny that how a message of light for those who are in darkness is very difficult for them to handle. It is like in the election of Abraham Lincoln for instance. We all acknowledge now he was a great Avatar and liberator, and most historians think he was our greatest president. But when he was elected the South was repulsed by him. They had heard the Lincoln and Douglas debate where he said, “A nation cannot exist half free and half slave and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.”

Those words reverberated in the south and right after he was elected the south determined that they had to fight this guy. This is what happens with words of light when they are sent to where darkness is. They will be fought, they will be fought just like I talked about in discussing the words and works of the two witnesses. The beast fights against them and attempts to destroy them until their dead bodies are lying in the streets of the symbolic New Jerusalem and then people are sending gifts to one another because they are so happy that they can just have their little mediocre beliefs to celebrate.

Copyright by J J Dewey

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The Birth of the Christ Within, Part 7

This entry is part 34 of 49 in the series JJ Lectures

So what when a person reaches that point he begins in Aries and goes through Taurus and all the signs of the zodiac backwards until his last one, his last labor is in Pisces, and Pisces is the labor of the world savior. He performs twelve great labors in twelve different lifetimes and if he fails in one then he has go back and do it over and it may take more than twelve lifetimes because you are not always successful the first time.

Abraham Lincoln was performing one of the labors of Hercules when he freed the slaves. For instance, with the labor in Aquarius is the king had these stables that were full of dung and nobody could clean them and it had been many, many years since they were cleaned. He promised Hercules that if he could clean the stables that he would give him one tenth of his great flock of cattle. Hercules said okay and Hercules diverted the river and it washed away all the dung and cleansed the stables. Then Hercules went to the king to collect the reward and the king says I am not giving you your reward because that was too easy. Hercules said well it may have been easy but I did it. So the king wanted to take Hercules life and Hercules had to flee.

So this is a little bit like Abraham Lincoln. He performs this great labor and frees the slaves and then he gets killed and he did not get any reward for it that manifested in this particular life.

Audience: Churchill

JJ: Yes Churchill wins the greatest war in history and saves the world and what do they do? They run him right out of office after the war, it is amazing how some of our great heroes get treated.

The Christ that was in Jerusalem and the labor that He performed was that of the world savior and He sacrificed himself for the benefit of humanity. This was in the age of Pisces and we are passing out of the age of Pisces now and moving into the Age of Aquarius. Now this Age of Aquarius that we are entering is different than the sun being in Aquarius in past ages. Does anyone know the time period that we are in a particular sign?

Audience: 2,165.3 years.

JJ: Chuckling, yes the sun takes about 2,160 years to run a through a sign of the zodiac. So what we are doing is passing into the Age of Aquarius and I believe that we passed over into this Age of Aquarius around 1945 when they exploded the atomic bomb because it says in the scriptures the sign of the coming of the son of man will be when the heavens are shaken with power and great glory. The word heaven comes from the Greek word ouranos and the word uranium comes from ouranos. When uranium is shaken, and you shall see the sign of the son of man in uranium revealed with power and great glory. Interesting is it not? How is the sign of the son of man revealed in uranium? It is revealed because how does uranium work?

It works because the atom is split in two and some of the pure spiritual essence or pure energy as Einstein calls it, is released. The atom is the tomb that holds the pure spiritual energy. After Jesus was crucified they put Him in a tomb and the tomb split open and the pure spiritual life energy was released and this corresponds to the atom being split open with the pure spiritual energy is released. The sign of the son of man is the splitting of the atom and this marks the beginning of the Age of Aquarius.

The transfer over from one age to another takes about 300 years. The beginning of Aquarius began to show a couple hundred years before 1945 and to fully settle into it will take a couple hundred years from now. But that was the transition point was when the atomic bomb was exploded because that was the sign of the son of man in Heaven, ouranos or uranium. Interesting; is it not?

Wayne: When was your birthday Joe?

JJ: February 6th, 1945 the same year the atomic bomb went off.

Audience: They were detonated August 6th and August 9th.

JJ: On the Great Seal of the dollar bill it says the new order of the new ages. In other words, the Founding Fathers recognized that they were laying the foundation for a new age. They were Aquarian thinkers because they were some of the first people to feel that Aquarian energy and the Aquarian energy is freedom of the spirit and service to humanity. They sensed this and that is why the founding fathers had to break off from the old ways and begin a new way of doing things.

Now we reach a crescendo of the war between the true good and evil which the war between the Allies and the Axis of evil with Hitler and that was the true Armageddon of our age. This was transition point right when the atomic bomb was created that gave the assurance that the allies would defeat Hitler. That was the sign of the age of the coming of the son of man. Now we are in it but we are actually so close on the cusp that we have a lot of these Piscean energies holding on that are just not letting go.

We will take the good from the keynote of sacrifice from that cycle and keep it but the bad in sacrifice is were we sacrifice to some authority. The authorities take the sacrifice and builds stone buildings out of it and we do not see any good out of it our selves. The true essence of sacrifice, that which is good we take with us and drop that which has not worked.

In the Aquarian Age the keynote will be service, organization, humanity, brotherly love and this will take a while to get into and in the next 200 years we will see a lot that has been hanging on the past 2000 years fade away and will not reappear.

Audience: Is that why we are having stuff like Hurricane Katrina happen?

JJ: No disasters like that happens periodically and you go back a couple years or so during the Bubonic Plague where millions of people were killed you will have things like that happen and there are going to be some earth changes but Katrina is nothing compared to the earth changes that will happen. Most of the earth changes that people think are going to happen next year; a lot of them will not happen for another 100 years. People always think the great calamity is just around the corner and they rarely are but sooner or later some fantastic things will happen.

Two thirds of the global warming is in the ocean and think about this a bit. If you light a match under a tub of water you are going to heat up the atmosphere a little but you are not going to heat up that tub of water. What is heating up the tub of water? What is heating up the oceans is the under water volcanic activity, that is why in some parts of the oceans it is 5 degrees above normal and in other parts it is colder than normal because where it is really warm in the oceans like up north in the Arctic is where some of the glaciers are melting there are under water volcanoes are heating up and melting the ice up there. Now we go to the Antarctica we find that there is more ice forming there than has ever been in recent history but it varies a lot. So this under water volcanic activity repeats itself cyclically and it goes through cycles of 11,000 years and we are due for another ice age in the next 150 years or so because of the great cyclic activity of the under water volcanoes. If the next ice age is as bad as the last one we could have glaciers clear down to Boise and it would global cooling rather than global warming.

Audience; they say 20 feet of volcanic ash right here in Boise like if Jackson Hole goes.

JJ: Oh yes that is another calamity waiting and hopefully it will be hundreds of years in the future and is fairly unpredictable. If the under ground activity at Yellowstone were to let loose there we would all be gone in this part of the country and it is making some scientists nervous but they are watching it close to make sure there is not another calamity there.

Audience: Are you saying that Abraham Lincoln was in an Age of Aquarius?

JJ: He was an Aquarian. I was pointing out that he was doing the work of an Aquarian like in the labor of Hercules, that Lincoln was doing that work and he did kind of sense Aquarian Age energy and picked some of it up. Presently the Aquarian Age energies are getting very powerful. One of the signs is Aquarius is the air sign and we look in the air and the fact that we are doing so many things in the air is a fact that Aquarius is here. Communications, satellites, the Internet, this is all related to the Age of Aquarius and you have not seen anything yet. Just wait until a couple hundred more years from now if we do not destroy our selves first.

We always have our free will and we could always could create a major war that could set us back to the Stone Age. That is always a possibility but the best guesses of the ones who know are that the chances are humanity even though we may have some difficult times will move into the Age of Aquarius and establish peace on earth and goodwill toward men. That is the goal. It will finally happen.

Audience: Will this happen in our lifetime?

Audience: Not under the current administration.

JJ: The crisis during our lifetime between now and the next 25 to 30 years will be a crucial time period and if we can get through this period without having a major set back then the chances are that we will naturally settle into the Age of Aquarius.

 

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

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The Birth of the Christ Within, Part 6

This entry is part 33 of 49 in the series JJ Lectures

So what do you do if you do not know where you are? If you do not where you are then tune into what it is within yourself that you feel your next step is. Whatever your next step is – say learning to play the guitar or some other skill, if you take the right step, even though you may not be good at it, you will begin to make progress. Maybe at first you did not want to learn something new, but when you learn that one thing in this life that you are supposed to be learning then you will have a peace about yourself from mastering it. You will say, how come I did not do this earlier for I had signs I was supposed to follow but I ignored them because I was not talented and now that I am learning this thing, it feels really great to be moving in the right direction.

Concerning my particular lesson that I had to learn – I had to go kicking and screaming because I did not want to do it but when I finally yielded I felt a strong peace about doing it. Each one of us has to find that one thing that you are supposed to learn, a little like Curley’s advice in the Movie City slickers. There’s one thing that you are supposed to do and you need to find it..

We learn many things during the course of our lifetime but what I am talking about is a particular lesson that each one of us has learn before we really move on and be of service to humanity. We have to be of service to our self by learning our life’s lesson.

Wayne: I have been thinking about the Tibetan’s definition of true humility, “True humility is recognizing where you are on the path and acting accordingly.”

JJ: Right learn your true position and then act accordingly. I am pretty close to Jesus and I am going to act that way! Laughing!

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: I like one of the parables that he gave about this and it is really good, Back in those days during the time of Christ the master of the house seated those at the table according to their status. If you were at a party and you seat yourself at the number one position and the host says you do not belong there, go to the number twelve position, you would be humiliated. Jesus said that if you are smart you would sit in the lowest status chair and that way if he moves you up  you would feel good. But if you think you are in the number one position and he moves you to 12 it would be very embarrassing and He says even so it is with your spiritual progress. Do not assume that you are number one. Be humble and if you do not know where you are then when put yourself at the bottom and when the time comes that you discover that you are supposed to be moved up then you will be honored.

I always liked that teaching. If we do not know where we are it is best to place yourself at the bottom because, who knows, you or I could have been Judas. So do not assume that you are at the top. If it turns out that you discover that you were a beloved disciple in a past life, then that is great, but don’t bank on it.

Always observe yourself from a humble point of view and if you do not know, or even if you do know, then do not assume that you are higher than your brother because he will sense this in you.

You can sense this in people – when they think they are better than you, so it is important to establish that humility as we proceed along the path and if we have that humility then the soul is happy to communicate with us and the channel between us and the soul is much clearer. Then he reaches a certain point where the petals begin to unfold more and more quickly until he becomes an initiate and an initiate simply put is one who initiates and it is as simple as that. We hear all kinds of stories where an initiate goes through all these ceremonies and all these ordnances or whatever but an initiate pure and simple is one who initiates and the greater thing he initiates the greater he is.

Look at some of the great initiates in history, Jesus of course is a great initiate because from His handful of teachings He initiated a church which has billions of followers throughout the world who honor His name and attempt to follow His teachings.  He initiated something that affected billions of people.

Buddha did the same thing and also non-religious people have initiated great things, Edison initiated the electric light bulb and look at all the benefits we have from Edison initiating inventions in his lab over 100 years ago. Abraham Lincoln initiated the freeing of the slaves and without him who knows how long it would have taken for the slaves to be free. George Washington and the founding Fathers initiated the founding of this country so that means that they were actual giants so to speak because they initiated something that changed the whole world.

Audience: Would Rosa Parks be considered an initiate then?

JJ: Yes she at least had a part in the change that occurred and was an initiate in some degree. I have heard that she was part of a plan for her to stand up and that she did not do it completely on her own. If she did do it on her own than that would make her a greater initiate than if the plan was created by someone else. There might have been an initiate that we do not even know the name of that caused that change happen. Maybe she was just cooperating with someone that had that idea. but that is just some things I have heard around that particular event.

Audience: A great example of who would be a great initiate now would be Doctor Masaru Emoto and he actually initiated the idea that our thoughts create impact on water.

JJ:  It would be hard to tell how high he is until maybe a generation from now because some initiates die and it looks like there ideas die with them and then some people’s work will survive them and flourish. Look at Jesus when He died He had 120 followers after all those great miracles He did. It looked like He was pretty much a non-starter but then we all know what happened.

Audience: Dr. Emoto I believe has made a big difference here when he came to Boise and I just wrote him this morning telling him what an impact he has made and of course he is not like The Christ but he has made quite an impact at least here in Boise.

JJ: Yes many initiates have that power to motivate other people to do things so that power is contagious for some. Other initiates operate more from quiet energy – like I say when Jesus died he only had 120 followers and not nearly as many as Buddha or some of the other teachers but when he rose from the dead that made a tremendous impact for it was something that really got things moving.

So you develop these energies and get the desire to get things going. You either initiate yourself or you participate in a group that is initiating. As an initiate you have this desire to help make things happen. This is a major step in the progression of the soul, getting things to happen and making things to move ahead.

The initiate stimulates the evolution of humanity and is of service to his fellow man and then the final step is what is called the “The Twelve Labors of Hercules.” What happens is you go through the Zodiac clockwise for all your lifetimes until you reach the point where you become a fairly high initiate where you obtain power to initiate in a way where you can affect a very large number of people. When you attain this power then you stop moving clockwise in the Zodiac and begin to go counterclockwise. When you go counterclockwise you are moving against the grain all the time.

Now many of the new age people say what you need to do is to go with the flow, well there are two flows. You have the flow of energy from the lower self and the flow of energy from the higher self and they are both going in different directions so the next time somebody says go with the flow then ask, which flow – the lower flow or the higher flow because they both go in opposite directions. Now we have to go with the lower flow until we reach the point to where we initiate against the lower flow. Then we reverse direction on the zodiac as we reincarnate from sign to sign. It is not a hard black and white rule but basically we go around the zodiac in our incarnations until we reach the point where we say wait a minute it seems like everything in this world is pretty much upside down from reality and I am beginning to see things like a mirror and everything I thought was real is not real and everything I thought was valid is not valid. I am seeing things in a different light. Now that you are seeing things from a higher view you see that everything in your past was pretty much upside down. So now what you have to do is go with the higher spiritual flow and everybody around you will be telling you that you are going against the flow.

In the days of Abraham Lincoln many thought that slavery was acceptable, and even in the North most people thought this way so he went against the flow. But to go against the flow he used the flows that were available because if he were a fanatic about it then he would have never been elected president. Some of the activists about freeing the slaves really criticized him a lot because he was not fanatical enough about it. But he had his beliefs within him and he said from the time he was very young, “if I ever get the opportunity to free the slaves then I will.”

But then he really did not concentrate on that as he was running for president. He concentrated on the right things to say to get elected president and then when he did have the opportunity he issued the Emancipation Proclamation and a lot of people thought he was crazy for doing it, but that was against the flow. Going against the flow created a great service to humanity by freeing the slaves.

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

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The Last Life, Part 2

This entry is part 19 of 49 in the series JJ Lectures

Perhaps another question would be, is there such a thing as a last life?power and he will have

Audience: I don’t think so; I think that even if you go through the initiations and reach the Christ initiation, which is what, the fifth initiation?

JJ: Yes to be a Master you have to go through five initiations, but the Christ was working on his seventh.

Audience: So even if you were to reach the fifth initiation you could still have another life so I don’t think you could ever be done.

JJ: Okay there is an interesting scripture that talks about the concept that we will have eternal lives on eternal worlds, worlds without end. In the true reality there is no last life but there is a last life to a particular field of endeavor and activity. Now we are under going a human evolution, to learn everything we need to learn going through our human in our sate. It takes many lifetimes and eventually we will reach a life where we will be like Christ and we will have all the mastery that Christ had and we will reach a point where we will say to ourselves well it looks like there is not too much more for me learn by coming back again except for maybe make a second coming somehow.

Now the second coming of the Christ could mean just being born as babe again and this is entirely possible but something that is not revealed and He does not want this revealed, why? Because when He comes He wants people to recognize Him because of what is inside of Him and not because it is proclaimed, “I am Christ obey me, bow before Zog!” You know the guy in superman movie.

That is the way everybody thinks that Jesus is going to be when He comes, destroy all the those wicked son of guns and then everybody will say, just tell me what to do, I will do whatever you say now lord. And then he starts bossing everybody around saying things like, “We are going to change this, we are going to get rid of President Bush and we are going to install a cabinet of zealous born again members and we are going to do this and that.” That is not the way it is going to be at all. If you want to know what it is going to be like the second time then look and see what He was like when He was here the first time. Did He boss anybody around the first time?

Even when He knew Judas was going to betray Him did He do anything to stop him? No He did not do a thing and just let Judas go ahead and betray Him. Did He try to unseat Caesar? No, did He interfere with anyone’s free will? No, the only thing that made Him cantankerous was one thing and does anybody remember what that one thing that He criticized was?

Audience: The profit for moneymakers in the temple.

JJ: But why did He criticize these guys?

Audience: They were making the profit and not doing…

JJ: It is one word and begins with the letter H.

Audience: Hypocrisy?

JJ: Hypocrisy, hypocrisy was the one thing that really irritated Him and He could not stand hypocrites. They brought a woman that committed adultery before Him and they said that they caught her in the act and we know she is guilty and the law says that she must be stoned – and what did He say? Did He say well she is pretty wicked all right and if you caught her in the act then that pretty much proves it. No He said let him who is without sin cast the first stone. And everybody’s own conscience condemn them so nobody could throw that first stone because everybody felt like they had done things within the boundaries of sin.

But when He had come across the religious leaders of His time His patience wore thin and as you know He cleaned the temple out with a whip and being as perfect as He is, we have the image of Jesus as being so mild and meek but He was normal so to speak. If you read the scriptures you get the image of a very kind loving person except when He was confronted with Hypocrisy and then he spoke very decisively about it and completely honest even at the risk of His life because a couple of times they tried to stone him.

He was completely fearless, which is another thing that if a person is on his last life he will have a certain amount of supernatural power and he will have fear under control. He will speak the truth, and this is one of the key ingredients in overcoming all things is the Truth. Not only finding the truth but being the truth so that everything that you teach, everything that you do and say and every time that you give your word it is true and if you can do that it will move you farther along to overcoming all things to being a master than anything else.

Suppose you meet a Master and the Master tells you, they have an important mission for you and want you to go down to Albertson’s and run around the store naked and draw attention to yourself and then they are going to bring an angel down and overshadow you with light and everybody is going to see a new vision. Then, after you obey this the Master says he was just joking and was just screwing with you.

Audience: Laughing!

JJ: But, in our minds, if we were to meet God, a Master or a Great Being we just assume what they tell us is true. Why do we assume that?

Audience: Because we give them authority.

JJ: That is part of it but we give them the authority because instinctively within ourselves we know that when a person manifests his god self there is truth in it and we instinctively know that within us. That is why if we were to meet such a being and we felt that divine presence we would have a high amount of trust in what that person would have to say. But many people that feel this way, on the other hand, think that I can deceive here and there myself and it is no big deal and nobody got hurt. Now why does he think that he can be on his last life and deceive when others who preceded him can come to him and he can reply on them 100%? It does not work that way.

We have to follow in the steps of the Great Ones so that what we say can be relied upon. When we reach a point where what we say can be relied upon as truth, truth as we know it to be, then that is a giant step in attaining our last life in this cycle. There are many ideas about how many lives that we have. If we went back clear to our beginning we would find that we went through thousands of lives but in this particular round that we are in right now I believe we go through approximately one thousand lives before we achieve liberation and the reason I believe that is because within our selves we have petals in each one of our chakras and these petals unfold as we master certain types of energies.

In the base of the spine there are four petals, in the solar plexus there are ten petals and in the heart center there are twelve petals and then in the center between the eyebrows for instance there are two major petals and in each one of these major petals there are forty eight on each side making ninety six small ones all together. The ninety six petals in the center between the eyebrows and then below the third eye you have forty eight and that makes a 144 petals in that area of the head. Then at the crown chakra you have approximately one thousand. So you have one thousand times the 144 equals the magic number of the 144,000.

Now in this round of existence I believe that each petal on the crown chakra stands for a lesson learned in one lifetime and in each lifetime we unfold a new lesson and learn a new characteristic a new ability a new piece of wisdom a new realization – something new that we learned and we cause one of the petals at the crown chakra to unfold in each lifetime until the last and then all of them are unfolded.

Now lets take our heart chakra, for instance, when it unfolds we have twelve petals. Six petals are connected with wisdom and six petals are connected with compassion and love. So we have these two groups of petals and when a person begins to understand the Christ love then one of the love petals begins to unfold and when it unfolds you have a new energy come and you may see love in an entirely new light, and an entirely new way of looking at it that you have never thought of before. Then when one of the wisdom unfolds all of a sudden you get more common sense than you have had before and common sense would be related to one of the wisdom petals, and then light and understanding is related to another one of the wisdom petals.

It takes about a thousand lifetimes for all these petals to unfold. Now the person goes through a lot of trial and error for hundreds and hundreds lifetimes and does not seem to make a lot of progress. The curve goes about like this, it is almost straight for one hundred lifetimes, two hundred lifetimes, three hundred lifetimes and then about between seven and eight hundred lifetimes you begin to start making some real progress and then as you are approaching the thousand number in your lifetimes you begin to realize that there are two flows. You have always heard the statement, especially in the new age community, just relax and go with the flow, but there are two flows. There is one that goes toward matter and there another flow that moves toward spirit and you do not pick up the second flow, the spiritual flow, until you near the end of your evolution – until you become a seeker and you hunger and thirst for truth (a disciple).

When you are hungering and thirsting after for truth then you pick up the second flow and you have to go with that and then you complete what is called the “The Labors of Hercules”. In the Labors of Hercules what happens is you pick up the second flow and you reverse the direction of your incarnations around the zodiac. We incarnate through the various signs of the zodiac clockwise as we begin our evolution until we reach near the end and when we reach near the end and perform the Labors of Hercules we go with our spiritual flow and it reverses our flow through the zodiac. We incarnate backwards at this point and incarnating backwards and going against the material flow each lifetime will be a tremendous struggle.

For instance I believe Abraham Lincoln performed one of the Labors of Hercules under Aquarius. He was born in Aquarius and in Aquarius Hercules had to clean the Augean stables and the king promised him a portion of his kingdom (10% of his cattle) if he would clean these out. Hercules cleaned the stables out and then when the king refused to pay him Hercules demanded he keep his promise. The king thought the only way to get rid of him was to kill him so Hercules had to flee for his life. So he did all this work and got no reward. Abraham Lincoln was a great example of that, he did all this work in freeing the slaves and his only reward was people wanting him dead.

Abraham Lincoln performed the quintessential Labor of Hercules in Aquarius. He performed a superhuman effort and cleaned up the slave mess so to speak and received no reward for it while he had lived. Of course he took his reward with him but he did not get much reward while he was alive.

He had a really bad wife too. Historians judge her to be the worst first lady in history. They were at a party one time, a big function with dignitaries and Abraham Lincoln said something a little bit off to his wife and she took a pie and threw it right in his face. She was just a terrible person to get along with. She wanted to be called Mrs. President and she really was into the glory of the office. It is amazing that with the distraction of having his wife being so cantankerous that he was able to be so patient with everyone else as well as fight one of the two greatest wars in our history. Djwhal Khul called him a racial avatar, placing him in similar category as a prophet of ancient times.

 

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

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Keys Writings, Part 8

This entry is part 16 of 34 in the series 2011C

Aug 28, 2011
Global Warming

Let Al Gore Read and Weep Al Gore is now placing Global Warming skeptics in the same category as racists in the old South. He’ll have to read the following articles and weep.

NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth’s atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed. http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-1923349\ 71.html

Cern’s 8000 real scientists who don’t have a dog in the global warming fight tell us that cosmic rays will probably be able to account for somewhere between a half and the whole of the increase in the Earth’s temperature that we have seen in the last century. It looks like the amount of effect humans have on climate will have to be revised downward. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/25/cern_cloud_cosmic_ray_first_results/

Aug 30, 2011

36 Keys & More

Larry Woods writes: Help me out. I’m trying to catalog JJ’s teachings about Keys rather than learning them by reading JJ’s book series which walks us through a discovery process in John’s teaching tradition. As far as I can tell JJ mentioned 60 Keys so far, five sets of twelve. Since it has been 14 years since he published the first book and we only got 3 Keys so far (in the main set of 36 pertaining to JJ’s teaching mission) it will take about 154 years to get the remainder. But, with your help I hope to learn them and to contemplate them in this life time. I’m currently re-reading The Immortal series for the third time so I will soon recall the other two Keys of Knowledge. Do any of you know more than the first three? I know many of you, like Ruth and Dan and Duke and Mindy and others have grown extremely facile in searching JJ’s writings. In The Immortal series, John commissions JJ to teach 36 Keys: of Knowledge, of Understanding, and of Eternal Life. I want to see them on a list so I can commit them to memory and contemplate them often. Since his last book, JJ also mentioned and taught about Keys of Discipleship. I list those here. Did he also mention Keys of Judgment? Or was that just one of the Keys of Knowledge? That would be 60 Keys. He also mentioned there are other “sets” of Keys out there on various topics. Please help me fill out these lists.

JJ When I have causally mentioned Keys this does not mean they belong to the 36 Keys. All I have definitely given out so far are four Keys of Knowledge and hints at the Fifth Key at the end of Eternal Words. I have also written about some of the other keys but have not identified them as such. For instance, one might assume that The Molecular Relationship somehow involves a Key of Knowledge.

They Keys given out so far are 1. Decision 2. Judgement 3. Right Perception 4. The Book of Revelation is the Key to the path of the disciple as revealed in The Unveiling. 5. Hint is given at the end of Eternal Words.

Aug 31, 2011

Infuriating Story

Here’s a story that will get Blayne’s blood boiling and cause alarm for many others over First Amendment rights. I could see Blayne standing up for his rights the same way if he were in the situation of the guy in the video.

http://www.infowars.com/man-faces-life-in-jail-for-recording-police. Be sure and watch the video.

Sept 1, 2011

Lincoln quote on labor

Good to have you back again, John.

I believe your thinking is sound here, John. Capital could not exist without labor for labor produces all that has value represented by capital. Capital either directly represents labor completed or future labor.

Farmer A has $1000 worth of apples and issues 100 certificates equal to $10 worth of apples.

Farmer B has not yet harvested his apples and does the same thing but his certificates are redeemable for $10.00 worth of apples from the future harvest.

Farmer A has created money on a principle similar to the old silver certificates redeemable in the present for silver.

Farmer B has created fiat money roughly similar to the Federal Reserve backed by something not yet in existence.

In both cases neither would have any value if the farmer did contribute his labor to produce a commodity of value.

I did write the financial series you mentioned. You can find the first one here:

http://www.freeread.com/archives/2395

At the end of the article are links to the entire series.

Sept 2, 2011

Funny Story

This story reminds me of something my friends grew up with could gave done.

http://www.kspr.com/news/local/kspr-3000-pair-of-panties-dumped-along-ohio-roadw\ ay-20110901,0,4089405.story

Sept 6, 2011

Europeans Gone Wild

Obamacare supporters rave about Europe’s healthcare programs but this story could indicate that socialized medicine may come closer to driving people crazy than helping them.

Nearly 40 percent of Europeans suffer mental illness

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/04/us-europe-mental-illness-idUSTRE7832JJ\ 20110904

No matter how you look at it I was sure that almost 40% of Europeans couldn’t be mentally ill as we define it but the fact that this figure is thrown around is kind of funny in itself. Kinda makes you think that every other waiter there will have his tongue hanging out slobbering on you while you order.

Sept 7, 2011

One Conspiracy Down

One of the most influential conspiracy theories in our history was that we didn’t really go to the moon. One poll revealed that 20% of the public swallowed this idea.

This theory really illustrates that people find what they are looking for even if what they are looking for is illusion. The arguments they came up with were really convincing to those who didn’t look at the big picture.

Here are some on this link: http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html

BUT

We now have a satellite around the moon that zooms in to around 15 miles from the surface and has taken pictures of several of the moon landings. The resolution reveals, “paths when they walked on the moon, as well as ruts left by a moon buggy. Experts could even identify the backpacks astronauts pitched out of their lunar landers before they returned to Earth.”

This pretty much nullifies all the “proof” previously presented that we did not go to the moon.

http://news.yahoo.com/astronauts-tracks-trash-seen-moon-photos-171551736.html

I’m for anything that leads to greater space exploration. I am really looking forward to the New Horizons craft to reach Pluto in a few years. It is about halfway there now.

Did you hear about a guy just using Google Mars who appeared to find a building on Mars? Take a look

http://scienceray.com/astronomy/the-most-important-discovery-on-mars-convince-yo\ ur-eyes-video/

Sept 14, 2011

Abe Lincoln Handwriting

I took a look at Abe’s handwriting and there is not enough evidence to declare for certain that he was a walkin. If he was a walkin the incident would have happened a short time before the Lincoln Douglas debates (1858) for it was around this time that his intelligence and focus seemed to be enhanced. The elements of the personality did not change much after that time but his nervous system showed a lot more stress. The war, of course, put a lot of stress on him but if he was a walkin the adjustment could have also added to it.

Near the end of his life his health was suffering from the stress (according to the handwriting) which agrees with some investigators who believe believe he was suffering from some type of serious problem. Historians tell us that before he became president he took a medicine that contained mercury so he probably had mercury poisoning. No wonder the original Abe wanted to leave his body. He had a terrible wife and may have been dying of mercury poisoning that can lead to madness. Whoever was in the body after 1860 did a great job of retaining composure and it is remarkable that he became the one considered to be our greatest president by historians.

Sept 14, 2011

Update on Elenin

Last Saturday (Sept 10th) Comet Elenin passed its first major milestone that was supposed to bring great destruction. On this date it reached its closest approach to the sun.

It should now be clear to all that:

(1) Elenin is not a Brown Dwarf star. It cannot even be seen with the naked eye but only with good binoculars or a telescope. (2) It’s tail is not showering us with a reign of terror falling from the skies nor is such an event even close to likely now or in the future.

The next major date on the schedule is September 26th or 27th. This is the day when we will be lined up again in a straight line with the sun, earth and Elenin. Many are predicting a great earthquake or worse.

Sept 16, 2011

Good Quote

Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.

Winston Churchill

Sept 16, 2011

Re: Understanding Illusion

I think everyone makes attempts at predicting the future at one time or another, including myself. I am much more cautious though than most for I realize how malleable it is.

Sept 19, 2011

Dark Brothers in Shamballa

Ruth asks: If the DB’s dwell in Shamballa, then how do they also dwell in physical bodies on Earth? If the DB’s cannot really physically incarnate, then how do they dwell in bodies on Earth?

JJ First of all, I do not recall reading anywhere in the Bailey writings that the dark brothers live in Shamballa. DK points out that Shamballa is created by a state of consciousness so one would think the Shamballa consciousness is much different than that had by the Dark Brotherhood.

DK does not say the leaders of the dark brothers are in the dense physical. Here is what he said: “The dark forces are ruled on the physical plane by a group of six oriental leaders and six occidental leaders.”

They merely rule the physical, but he does not say they are in the dense physical. They most likely dwell in etheric bodies which is often referred to as the physical by DK.

Sept 20, 2011

Another Prediction

Here is a prediction I lifted from Sterling’s forum. This guy is predicting a supernova this coming Friday so we do not have to wait log to see if he is correct.

JJ

The September equinox, also known as the autumnal equinox in the northern hemisphere, occurs at 09:04 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) on September 23, 2011

A man named David B. Cohen MD has predicted that a Supernova will occur in the constellation of Orion, which will open The Seventh Seal.

His website is http://theadamiclanguage.com/index.html

Comments from http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8333

Dr. Cohen is a Cohanim (Jewish Priest) by birth and LDS because his father converted to Mormonism. He is very knowledgeable about symbols and dates. Because of his Jewish background, he has a very unique take on things. I read his book about the importance of symbols in Judaism and he has some good explanations. He may not be right about everything, but he’s a very bright man. And we can learn some things from him. It’s up to us to make our own decisions about what is correct and what isn’t, but from reading his book, I feel he is just trying to show us the deeper significance of some of these dates and signs. It’s very interesting. I don’t get the feeling at all that he thinks he’s a prophet….just a good observer.

see also

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8333

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/2009/01/cohen-fireside-second-coming.html

Sept 21, 2011

Cancer cure!!!!!! Sodium Bicarbonate?

The advantage of baking soda is that it is one of the most alkaline products you can injest. I take about a half teaspoon on a glass of water daily just to keep my body in balance.

Some say that Arm and Hammer has aluminum in it so i recommend you by yours in a health food store or online at: http://www.vitacost.com/Bobs-Red-Mill-Aluminum-Free-Baking-Soda

I found another product that is one of the best things I have discovered for a while. It is a wine aerator. You can check it out here:

http://www.amazon.com/Vinturi-6700-Essential-Wine-Aerator/dp/B000UPOJ5W/ref=sr_1\ _1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316589504&sr=8-1

You might be able to find these cheaper on ebay. I bought mine at Costco for about $27.00.

Now this is sold as a method of making wine taste better but I have found that it makes water taste better also. Many think spring water is the healthiest because it is in motion and the motion oxygenates it. Well this device oxygenates anything you pass through it making regular water turn into spring water.

Larry W: This aerator looks interesting. But what makes it any better than the CHEAP aerator at your kitchen tap?

JJ You also get some aeration when you pour wine in a glass but this gizmo really does the job. Read the reviews on Amazon.

The tap, I am sure, does gives some aeration but many do not drink tap water any more because of chlorine, fluorine and other contaminates added. I drink a water that I purify myself as mentioned earlier. This gizmo is particularly good to use for water that has just been sitting in a jug.

I tested the PH of water after adding every substance in our kitchen and baking soda was the only one that significantly turned the PH toward alkaline. Even so, I agree with Blayne that apple cider vinegar is a very healthy drink and you can’t go wrong with it.

As for how much of anything one should take here is what I do. For general health I just take what feels right to my body. If it is for some specific treatment then take the recommended amount, but still tune in to your body to make sure there is not a negative reaction.

Sept 21, 2011

Sabbath Day

Concerning Israel and the Sabbath Silver Lining wrote: Elevators in Israel, as you know, open at every floor on Sabbath days so users need not press the button, because that would be work. But if you press the door open button at the same time as your floor number button and hold them both for five seconds, then the elevator does not make any intermediate stops (YouTube elevator hack). Applying this to elevators in Sabbath mode could save you a lot of elevator time in a Tel Aviv hotel.

JJ Sounds like the same type of Sabbath tricks they used in the time of Jesus. For instance you couldn’t wear your heavier sandals because that would mean walking would be more work. You were only allowed to walk so many steps on the Sabbath. You couldn’t walk through a wheat field because you may knock off a few kernels and that would constitute the work of harvesting grain on the Sabbath.

Isn’t it great to be able to rely on your own judgment rather than decrees from the beast that filters down through all belief systems?

Sept 21, 2011

Earth is Hell

“It is interesting that the scriptures indicate that this earth is hell.”

LWK I am curious which scripture(s) you had in mind when you wrote that? That is indeed an interesting subject.

JJ Actually, I was thinking of the LDS scriptures when I wrote that but there is evidence in the Bible also.

The strongest evidence is found in this scripture:

“These (the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom) are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who receive NOT of his fulness…” D&C 76:84&86

And where is the telestial kingdom? The Mormon temple ceremony answers:

“Brethren and sisters, this represents the Telestial Kingdom, or the world in which we now live. (earth where people are thrust down to hell)

I wrote this in Mormonism and Reincarnation:

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it.” What is the sea? The scripture explains: “The waters (the sea) which thou sawest where the whore sitteth are the peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues.” Rev 17:15. We are told that “Death (Physical death II Nephi 9:11) and Hell (the spiritually dead in hell. II Nephi 9:12) delivered up the dead which were in them.” Thus we see that on the last day ALL the spiritually dead including those still living on the earth (The sea) and all the Spirit world (Death and Hell) will be judged, and those who cannot abide the judgment must suffer a “second death” and be cast into the lake of fire (or another round of numerous lives of sorrow).

When Nephi was interpreting the filthy water in his vision he said it was “hell”. His brothers then asked: “Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things BOTH TEMPORAL AND SPIRITUAL.” I Nephi 15:31-32 Here we have it in plain English. Hell is both temporal and spiritual. Men can suffer for their sins both in and out of the body, and since this temporal existence is part of “hell” how are men going to be sent there after they die if they are not born again?

“There cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.” I Nephi 15:34. Nephi tells us that that place which is prepared is hell, of which the filthy water in the vision was a symbol of, and such symbol “was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual”. Therefore those who suffer the temporal hell are sent back to the “temporal” earth.

There is more evidence of this from the Bible.

Jesus said: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:28

The physical body does not follow us after death. The only place the body could be destroyed in hell is by destroying it on this earth.

In Revelations we are told that the New Jerusalem descended on the earth. After this happened it is written: “For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” Rev 22:15

It appears that those who go to hell in the future are still on the earth, but just outside the location of the New Jerusalem.

Most of the people on the earth evolved from this planet and as they went through infancy they were not sensitive to the suffering of others because they did not have enough experience go have empathy. Some came from other planets and in our young earth they were indeed out of place. Let us suppose you were raised with wolves. You may have thought you were a wolf yourself and had difficulty in raising above their consciousness, but at the same time it would seem that you didn’t belong there with the pack. The pack itself were not criminals. They were just being who they were at the time.

 

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

Easy Access to all the Writings

Log on to Freeread Here

 

 

Lincoln – Good or Evil?

This entry is part 9 of 31 in the series 2011B

Below is a compilation of dialog I had about Lincoln from the archives.

Feb 3, 2008
Blayne quoting JJ:
“Ron Paul sees Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant and thinks he fought the Civil War to increase the power of government and the civil war was unnecessary. He would not have fought to free the slaves. He thinks the were close to being freed naturally. This is very naive thinking as the South was seeking to expand slavery in all directions in and out of the United States and were not about to let the slaves go free or support any legislation that would allow this.”

Blayne:
“This is a very naive statement. Lincoln did not fight to free the slaves, in his own words he stated:

“‘My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not to either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.'”

JJ:
You left off an important part of the quote. He added:

“I have here stated my purpose according to my views of official duty and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.”

I did not state the reason Lincoln went to war so you are not arguing against anything I said here. That said, yes Lincoln saw his prime “official duty” to save the union, but he also had an equally strong unofficial personal moral duty to free the slaves. He expressed a strong desire for this in many instances.

When he wrote this letter to Horace Greeley he was discouraged with the war to the extent that if there was some way he could save the union without freeing the slaves he would have done it for he was worried at the time that the war could be lost. As soon as the North began to see daylight he restored his attitude and ditched this momentary notion and added the freeing of the slaves to the agenda. This was a personal agenda of his throughout his life.

Blayne:
“He also rejected the notion of social equality of the races, and held to the view that blacks should be resettled abroad. As President, he supported projects to remove blacks from the United States.”

JJ:
He presented the highest concept of freeing the slaves that he felt the people could accept. Neither he or anyone else at that time thought the masses could accept racial equality. If he presented anything higher than he did then he would have been killed before Boothe got to him.

In actuality Lincoln took no steps to export the blacks after the war and seemed to have no intention of doing this though earlier in life he thought this may be the only acceptable solution.

Here is a good quote giving his views.

“I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling.” (Abraham Lincoln — Source: April 4, 1864 – Letter to Albert Hodges)

Blayne:
“Lincoln’s main motivation was the prevention of the Southern market from leaving the union. If this were permitted to happen, the entire northern industrial monopoly would have collapsed and what was left would further disintegrate.”

JJ:
And you think this because…?

The facts reveal otherwise. During the war, when South was separate, the Northern industrial power increased — not decreased. The economy in the North boomed and the South suffered severe depression. If Lincoln merely wanted financial dominance he did not need the South to stay in the Union. The greatest amount of wealth was created for the North during the war than any other time in history to that date. On the other hand, the South suffered numerous internal rebellions because of poverty.

Blayne:
“Lincoln also destroyed the original republic, he suspended habeas corpus, instituted a draft and income taxes.”

JJ:

Habeas Corpus:

These actions did not destroy the Republic, but possibly saved it. Concerning habeas corpus Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution says:

“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.”

Because of the rebellion the supreme court never found Lincoln’s actions unconstitutional.

The Draft:

Yes, Lincoln instituted the draft, but they also had a draft during the Revolutionary War. Were they also destroying the Republic? No they were creating it. The South alas had a draft.

Only 2 percent of union soldiers were the result of a draft. The rest were volunteers.

Income Tax:

Desperate times require desperate measures. He did institute a temporary tax of 3 percent on higher incomes. After the war habeas corpus was restored, the draft cancelled and income tax discontinued. How could these things destroy the Republic when they ceased to exist?

Blayne:
“And unlawfully attacked sovereign states who had every right to secede from the Union via the 10th amendment to the constitution since secession was not addressed in the constitution.”

JJ:
But they did not have a legal right to attack Fort Sumpter. This first aggression was an act of rebellion that justified a forceful response.

Blayne:

“The congress was not legally in session since the southern representatives had left and on an on it goes.”

JJ:
Of course they were legally in session for the South was no longer part of the Union.

How about the Congress of the Southern States? Were they illegal also? Should neither side have any right to govern? That makes no sense for either side.

Confederate sympathizers often blast the North and Lincoln with criticism but neglect to mention that the South instituted a draft, suspended ex post facto law, nationalized industries, also started a income and profit tax, mandated hotels and railroads had to report to government offices who was staying at their hotel and riding the trains, the city of Richmond had a passport system in place for the coming and going of all citizens. See Jeffrey Hummel’s “Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men” for a balanced libertarian perspective.

The fact is these were desperate times and desperate measure are always taken during such times and both sides did it — the South perhaps more than the North.

Blayne:
“Ron Paul simply said there was no need to fight the civil war and kill 600,000 Americans to end slavery He could have ended it without fighting slavery by buying the slaves and freeing them Instead of going to war and violating the sovereignty of the southern states and our constitution. By so doing caused quite a resentment toward blacks and the north that is still with us today.”

JJ:
As I said Lincoln tried to purchase the slaves freedom and the South wasn’t about to cooperate.

Blayne:
“Every other country-ended slavery without a war can you give any reason why we couldn’t have done the same?”

JJ:
Because slavery was much more institutionalized in the South than England. The South was attempting to expand slavery to the Western States and South and Central America when the war started. In addition England and Europe did not want slavery ended in the South and were in on a conspiracy to kill Lincoln so they could enjoy the benefits of trading with the South for the products of slave labor.

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 05:40:55 -0600Subject: [Keysters] A Look at Lincoln

The Question:
What are the three ways that Lincoln altered the course of history for the better?

The first and obvious one is slavery. There are two groups that want to deny Lincoln any credit on this issue.

The first is the politically correct crowd who are rewriting texts books which teach the rising generation. Some of them only have a paragraph on Lincoln and give credit to the freeing of the slaves to anyone but him. If he is quoted they use a quote out of context that make it sound like his only goal was to save the union.

The second is a residual anti-Lincoln group which has never completely disappeared. These are joined by a few strong constitutionalists who adhere to states rights with little or no deviation. These also quote his few statements about saving the union as a prime goal and ignore his many arguments for freeing the slaves and making them equal with the whites.

Both if these groups judge Lincoln’s words with the politically correct standards of the present. As I said we could do this with any white person of more than a century ago and make him sound racist.

What is the truth?

Yes it is true that his prime goal was to save the union because he believed that if the union were not saved then we would wind up with a country that would not be free or worth living in for blacks or whites. Therefore, this was first in his mind.

Let me quote from a previous post: “Lincoln had publicly stated a number of times, even from his youth, that he had a desire to eliminate slavery and would do so if he ever had the opportunity. His most famous stance was made during the Lincoln Douglas debates where he stated that the United States was a house divided and as such cannot stand . It cannot exist half free and half slave. This famous debate brought him to national attention in a significant way for the first time.

“The South remembered his views when he became President and this was the main reason they seceded from the union, causing slavery to be a strong underlying cause of the war.

“During the war Lincoln made many comments , wrote many letters and had many debates with individuals about slavery and he definitely expressed a strong desire to eliminate the problem.

“As far as the Emaciation Proclamation goes. He took this step as far as was possible. He had the wisdom to realize that you can’t make major change in one giant leap so he always did what he could one step at a time.

“The next major step was taken in his second bid for the presidency, and keep in mind this was done during the heat of the war. At his urging the Republican platform supported the complete abolition of slavery and the introduction of the thirteenth Amendment.

“The platform stated that the President’s Proclamation aimed a “death blow at this gigantic evil,” and that a constitutional amendment was necessary to “terminate and forever prohibit it.”

“Lincoln was thus reelected on this platform making slavery a main issue of the continuance of the war during his second term.

“While Lincoln was still alive the 13th Amendment was passed by Congress and sent to the States for ratification. Ratification by the states was a sure thing at his death.”

So how about the argument that slavery would have naturally gone away if the civil war was not fought? After all other nations freed their slaves without war. What is left out of this idealism is that the majority of the states of the U.S. also freed their slaves without war. So why was the North and other nations able to do this? It is simple. The percentage of black slaves in the Northern States,. Britain, France and other nations was low compared to the Southern States. At the time of the Civil War there was a slave population of 3,500,000 out of a total of 9,000,000 people in the South. This was a total of about 39% of the population who were slaves. Unlike other nations who were considering the freeing of slaves the South sought to expand upon it and wanted slavery extended to western territories. The South was so dependent upon their slaves that without a war it could have existed another hundred years. Without the civil war I believe the civil rights era of the 1960’s would have been over slavery rather than the rights of the black man.

The second way Lincoln altered history for the better was in the preservation of the Union and holding intact the Country of the United States.

Now many think it would have been better to allows all states their right to secede and in normal times this may have been the right thing to do. But the reason the South wanted to secede was so they could practice slavery undisturbed (among other things). If therefore slavery was so perpetuated and secession was used for such a fowl purpose this would set a precedent for a further break up of the union for all kinds of lower purposes.

Consider the past and what happened to Rome when it started to break up. They lost all vestiges of good government and, even though Rome was not perfect, what followed was a period of the darkest hue with a loss of knowledge, education and technology unprecedented in history.

Could the break up of the union had been followed by a loss of the Constitution and all truths that were held self evident? Lincoln thought so and this was one reason he fought with all be had to preserve the union. Lincoln was an astute student of history and did not want to see it repeated in his country.

I personally believe he received a strong impression from the Hierarchy on the importance of preserving the union.

There is a time and place for all things. The time of Lincoln was the time to increase central control. Now is the time to work toward the opposite.

Civil War & More

Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:28 pm

Blayne quoting JJ:
“You left off an important part of the quote. He added: ‘I have here stated my purpose according to my views of official duty and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.'”

Blayne the writes:
“A bit contradictory of him wouldn’t you agree? He could care less about freeing the slaves but desires all men to be free…”

JJ:
This is simply not true. His words bear witness time and time again that he cared very much about freeing the slaves. He did not feel he had a mandate to officially express that goal as president during the first part of his administration, but he always personally desired it and pursued it. His view on slavery was one of the reasons seven states seceded after he was elected, even before he became president.

Blayne:
“The point is he did not go to war to free the slaves but to force the Southern states to remain a part of the Union, which he had no authority to do.”

JJ:
It looks to me like he had authority, used the authority and this authority was never challenged by the other branches of government.

If the South wanted to secede to live in harmlessness Lincoln may have been wrong. Instead the South wanted to enslave their fellow men and make sure this right to slavery continued. Sure there is the doctrine of states rights, but no state has the right to enslave its people.

Blayne:
“His actions speak much louder then his words. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in parts of the Confederacy inaccessible to the union army. Union soldiers often were permitted to confiscate slaves in rebel territory and put them to work for the union army. In areas loyal to the union, slaves were not emancipated. After the war, Lincoln offered little land to the former slaves; most of the land was parceled off to his constituent power-base, the railroad and mining companies.”

JJ:
The end result was the slaves were freed and this was one of the greatest advances in liberty in human history — thanks to Abraham Lincoln — and no thanks to the Confederacy’s excuse of States Rights to enslave their brethren.

Blayne:
“Lincoln’s main motivation was the prevention of the Southern market from leaving the union. If this were permitted to happen, the entire northern industrial monopoly would have collapsed and what was left would further disintegrate.

“The economic reasons are well documented and give insight into Lincoln’s agenda. The South, which supplied 75 percent of exports, was on the verge of becoming a low tariff, free trade zone. Lincoln feared this would disadvantage the North, and in particular his rich industrialist supporters. So Lincoln imposed punitive tariffs as a means to distribute wealth from the South to northern manufacturers.”

JJ:
What have you been reading? Lincoln didn’t impose any tariffs.

There were tariffs passed that affected the South before Lincoln became president which had bipartisan support and was encouraged and signed by president James Buchanan, a Democrat. Lincoln couldn’t have imposed tariffs on the South if he wanted to because the secession had already began when he became president.

Blayne:
“Lincoln instead could have moved toward peaceful prosperity by joining with England, France, other European countries, and the Confederate states in which free trade was already going on.”

JJ:
I suppose Lincoln could have, but he wasn’t given a chance because he never had any power over the Confederacy. He never had a chance to preside over the whole Union. Let’s stick with what Lincoln did or said do rather than what you think was in his heart.

Blayne:
“Where was the rebellion? Where in the constitution is secession forbidden? NOWHERE! Thus leaving it up to the States via the Tenth Amendment.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'”

JJ:
But how about the blacks? They were people too. Rebelling for the purpose of benefiting from the profits of enslaving an entire race goes against everything sacred in the Constitution. They were only big on states rights because they wanted to maintain slavery. They were happy to violate the Constitution in many other ways. I am surprised you are so eager to defend a slave state when you are such a supporter of liberty. States rights is not excuse enough to secede for the purpose of enslaving a race and benefiting from their labor at the point of a whip. You’ll note that all the rebel states were slave states. If slavery was not the main issue then some non slave states would have also seceded.

Blayne states the draft by Lincoln was illegal:

This is from Wikipedia:

“In 1918, the Supreme Court ruled that the World War I draft did not violate the United States Constitution. Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918).[14] The Court summarized the history of conscription in England and in colonial America, a history that it read as establishing that the Framers envisioned compulsory military service as a governmental power. It held that the Constitution’s grant to Congress of the powers to declare war and to create standing armies included the power to mandate conscription. It rejected arguments based on states’ rights, the Thirteenth Amendment, and other provisions of the Constitution.”

Note: The Confederacy also had a draft.

Blayne:
“So-called desperate times have been the refuge of dictators and tyrants through out history in suppressing freedom.”

JJ:

Desperate times befall the good and the bad. Desperate measures have been taken by many good guys such as Hannibal, Washington, Churchill, FDR, Reagan and both the North and South during the civil war.

Blayne:

“What was Lincoln’s desperation? The southern states peacefully succeeded from The Union.”

JJ:

I wouldn’t call taking federal property by force, a first aggression, as peaceful. Also the blacks were not allowed to live in peace. Confederate sympathizers try to take slavery out of the equation, but it was central to the whole conflict. Without slavery there would have been no division of the States.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“But they did not have a legal right to attack Fort Sumter. This first aggression was an act of rebellion that justified a forceful response.”

Blayne then writes:
“Hello — Fort Sumter was in So. Carolina, a southern state that had seceded. That aggression was an act of a sovereign nation protecting its territory. The confederacy seized all but four federal forts within their boundaries of which Sumter was one.”

JJ:
And the Confederacy had no right to do this because the fort was federal property and before the rebellion all the states agreed it was federal property. Lincoln said that Fort Sumter belonged to all of the people of the United States. He was correct in this and had the right to hold on to it.

Blayne:
“Lincoln provoked that attack by trying to send reinforcements to Sumter. Now are you going to tell me he didn’t have ulterior motives when he could have resolved this peacefully?”

JJ:
There was no way to solve it peacefully and keep that which belong to the federal government. The Confederacy was determined to possess it by any means necessary including drawing first blood.

Blayne:
“To further indict Lincoln let it no go unmentioned that he conducted a war without the consent of Congress. He declared martial law, confiscated private property, imprisoning about 30,000 Northern citizens and 31 legislators without trial, censored telegraph lines, and shut down northern newspapers for opposing the war.”

JJ:
The number is usually given as 13,000. People were not put in jail for opposing the war. The New York Times and other papers as well as about a third of the Union ridiculed Lincoln mercilessly and opposed Lincoln as they now oppose Bush and Lincoln took no action. Action was taken toward those who sought to overthrow the government or to give aid to the enemy. If he hadn’t done this he would have probably lost the war.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“Because slavery was much more institutionalized in the South than England. The South was attempting to expand slavery to the Western States and South and Central America when the war started. In addition England and Europe did not want slavery ended in the South and were in on a conspiracy to kill Lincoln so they could enjoy the benefits of trading with the South for the products of slave labor.”

Blayne then writes:
“Hardly, only 15 percent of southerners owned slaves.”

JJ:
That’s a pretty big number.

Blayne:
“The South was attempting to just expand to the west period not necessarily to further slavery.”

JJ:
Where do you get this idea? It is historical fact that they attempted to expand slavery to Cuba, central America and other areas. Expanding slavery to even one new state would be too much.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“If we hadn’t fought the Civil War it would have taken a hundred years to eliminate slavery. There’s no evidence that slavery could have been peacefully ended.”

Blayne then writes:
“Well this is simply your opinion but there is no evidence to support it. Every other country peacefully ended slavery around this same time. Which suggest the USA could have done so also.”

JJ:
There’s a lot of evidence. After the war the slave owners were surprised to discover that slaves were not happy being slaves. They thought that slaves needed masters to take care of them and were amazed at how they felt when they were free to express themselves. They still tried to treat them as slaves and many blacks were killed who did not conform. This had nothing to do with the actions of the North. Any slight study of the period will reveal that slavery was institutionalized in the South much more than it was in England and wasn’t about to end soon by normal means.

Confederate sympathizers try to preach otherwise to whitewash the history of slavery, but they have no case.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 7:25 pm

Blayne wrote:
“The government is servant to the people and the people are its master even if the people are wrongly enslaving others.”

JA wrote:
“What happened to the shining example or the Ensign America is to other nations? If the war would not have been fought America would not have become the example it is today if for no other reason then the time it would have taken to get to the level of freedom it is at today. Plus the actions America took during that time therefore setting an example. There is risk in all things or opposition in all things, I think that is a fact of life.

“So if people choose to break the law set by the government then it is justified because the people are the master of the government?

“That would be a journey into irresponsibility, is that what this is really about? The fear of that? What happened to the shining example?”

JJ:
Good point JA. This is indeed an amazing statement by Blayne and it reveals a potent path to many illusions.

Let’s see how this applies in different situations.

The Confederacy:

“The government is servant to the people and the people are its master even if the people are wrongly enslaving others.”

It sounds like the Blacks are not considered people here. In fact a main point of debate in the Confederacy was whether or not they had souls.

How were the blacks who were definitely people masters of the government when the government was enslaving them?

If we apply this principle today then it would be OK if white people used government to their advantage and passed a law saying that all Chinese people had to be branded on the forehead and work for ten cents an hour.

If a black and white Ron Paul following of the Constitution leads to the support of slavery then we need to rebel against it and write it anew so human liberty is clearly enough defined so even Ron Paul followers can understand it and be lead away from their acquiescence of slavery and tyranny.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:55 am

Blayne quoting JJ:
“If the South wanted to secede to live in harmlessness Lincoln may have been wrong. Instead the South wanted to enslave their fellow men and make sure this right to slavery continued. Sure there is the doctrine of states rights, but no state has the right to enslave its people.”

Blayne then writes:
“So its ok to kill millions to preserve freedom, but not ok allow slavery for little longer to preserve the constitution, which illustrates that freedom?”

JJ:
They were NOT preserving the Constitution, the main purpose of which is the protection of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The Constitution was a mockery for the South when over a third of their people had no liberty, no ability to pursue happiness and not even a right to, life if they left the plantation. The main states rights that concerned them was the right to own slaves.

Blayne:
“Once again your assuming Lincoln’s motive was to abolish slavery even though the evidence and Lincoln’s own words contradict that notion.”

JJ:
There’s no assumption need here. Lincoln expressed a desire many times in support of freedom for all humans and freedom for the slaves was even part of the Republican platform in 1864.

Here’s a dialog between Lincoln and one of his closest friends, Judge Gillespie, in the days before the inauguration:

“‘Gillespie,’ said he (Lincoln), ‘I would willingly take out of my life a period in years equal to the two months which intervene between now and my inauguration to take the oath of office now.’ ‘Why?’ I asked. ‘Because every hour adds to the difficulties I am called upon to meet, and the present administration does nothing to check the tendency toward dissolution. I, who have been called to meet this awful responsibility, am compelled to remain here, doing nothing to avert it or lessen its force when it comes to me.’

“I said that the condition of which he spoke was such as had never risen before, and that it might lead to the amendment of such an obvious defect in the federal Constitution.

“‘It is not of myself I complain,’ he said, with more bitterness than I have ever heard him speak, before, or after. ‘But every day adds to the difficulty of the situation, and makes the outlook more gloomy. Secession is being fostered rather than repressed, and if the [secession] doctrine meets with a general acceptance in the border states, it will be a great blow to the government.’

“Our talk then turned upon the possibility of avoiding a war. ‘It is only possible,’ said Mr. Lincoln, ‘upon the consent of this government to the erection of a foreign slave government out of the present slave states….’

“‘I see the duty revolving upon me. I have read, upon my knees, the story of Gethsemane, where the Son of God prayed in vain that the cup of bitterness might pass from him. I am in the Garden of Gethsemane now, and my cup of bitterness is full and overflowing….’

“I then told him that as Christ’s prayer was not answered and His crucifixion had redeemed the great part of the world from paganism to Christianity, so the sacrifice demanded of him might be a great beneficence. Little did I then think how prophetic were my words to be, or what a great sacrifice he was called upon to make.”

(The Life of Abraham Lincoln: Drawn from Original Sources, Vol II by Ida Minerva Tarbell – 1903, pg 200)

The key phrase here is:

“Our talk then turned upon the possibility of avoiding a war. ‘It is only possible,’ said Mr. Lincoln, ‘upon the consent of this government TO THE ERECTION OF A FOREIGN SLAVE GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE PRESENT SLAVE STATES…. I see the duty revolving upon me.'”

In his Second Annual Address to Congress in 1862, he said:

“‘We know how to save the Union. The world knows we know how to save it. We even here — hold the power and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free — honorable alike in what we give and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last, best hope of earth….’

“‘If we do this we shall not only have saved the Union, but we shall have so saved it, as to make, and to keep it forever worthy of the saving.'”

He said here very plainly that to make the union worthy of saving the slaves had to be free.

He also made sure emancipation was in the Republican platform and then executed that desire and did free them. What more evidence do you want? This is historical fact you are arguing with, not my opinion. Those Confederate endorsed Southern supremacy books you’re reading aren’t doing the job for you.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“The end result was the slaves were freed and this was one of the greatest advances in liberty in human history — thanks to Abraham Lincoln — and no thanks to the Confederacy’s excuse of States Rights to enslave their brethren.”

Blayne the writes:
“So the many other countries that freed slaves around that same time without killing 600,000 of their countrymen don’t get any credit? You have a pretty narrow view of history my friend.”

JJ:
Perhaps you need to check your own view. The other nations that freed their slaves were in a similar situation to the Northern States that freed their slaves. Emancipation in the North was natural because there were so few slaves and the economy wasn’t dependent on them. Even so, England only had about 10,000 slaves and no strict law to dominate them. They were freed there because it was proven that slavery violated the law.

When England freed their slaves only about one in 800 persons was enslaved, In the South over one in three were slaves and draconian laws were in place to sustain Big Brother in making sure it continued.

To say that the Confederate States would drop this money making human machine like England and other nations is comparing apples and oranges. England and France who had basically freed their own handful of slaves wanted it to continue in the Confederate states. So much for their moral superiority.

In the Confederacy over one third of the people were slaves — over 4 million out of around 9 million people. The South felt that they must hold on to them or their economy would collapse. Not only this but they insisted that the “right” to own slaves be expanded westward and to other nations.

You have absolutely no evidence that slavery would have ended any time soon. If it were on the verge of ending then they would not have seceded to preserve slavery.

My personal belief is that if we had not fought the Civil War that the 1960’s would have been about ending slavery rather than civil rights. Please don’t say that is just my opinion as this is obvious to all. But it is a well thought out one.

Blayne:
“You might try Tom DiLorenzo’s ‘The Real Lincoln’ for starters. The tariff had been a source of friction for a long time. It almost caused secession several years earlier. It was the real reason for the civil war.”

JJ:
If you use logic rather than following the mantras of southern supremacists you could never come to this conclusion.

First, let me point out that many of DiLorenzo statements are not true or slanted, but also look for what he conveniently left out of his book to mislead readers. A couple good articles on this can be found at:

http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.736/article_detail.asp

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27396

The tariffs were basically tariffs on the exports of the products of slave labor. Without slavery it would not have been an issue. If slavery was not the main factor then non slave states would have seceded also. This observation alone proves my case.

When the secession began the rebel states cited Lincoln’s belief in emancipation as their cause for leaving above the tariffs from what I have read. Of course, slavery was not the only issue, but it was the core issue and without it we would not have had the war.

Blayne:
“Lincoln wanted to keep it (the tariff) since it favored the north and left the south at the mercy of the north in many ways. Bipartisan? Hardly, 137 representatives from the north and 87 from the south.”

JJ:
Bi-partisan means both Democrats and Republicans cooperated and this is a historical fact you are arguing with. Let me repeat. The tariffs you demonize were spearheaded by a Democratic president and passed by voting from both parties.

It can be argued that they were unfair to the South, but the tariffs some complained of had nothing to do with Lincoln who was not yet president. When Lincoln was elected the seceding states were more concerned with his views on emancipation than they were with his views on tariffs.

Blayne:
“Again there is ample evidence that the US Civil War was not about slavery albeit slavery was used as one of many excuses. It was about hanging on to the lucrative tariffs and taxes and expanding the north while limiting the south based on slavery.”

JJ:
If you read some books that give the whole picture rather than books trying to prove the South was right you would not come to this conclusion. Nothing enflamed the South more than the threat of emancipation or curtailing their “right” to own a human being as a piece of property.

“Battle Cry of Freedom” by James McPherson is a good book that doesn’t have an agenda. It is very well written and fascinating reading.

Blayne:
“Also of note is the fact that the North was also benefiting from the slave labor as well and as Lincoln said he could care less about slavery his aim was to preserve the union, of course because it was lucrative to the north and his industrialist cronies.”

JJ:
You are distorting too many facts and quotes here. Lincoln NEVER, I repeat NEVER said he could care less about slavery.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“The Confederacy also had a draft.”

Blayne then writes:
“I never said the draft it was illegal, It doesn’t matter what the Court ruled the simple fact is no draft is addressed in the constitution therefore it is left up to the states via the 10th Amendment. Colonial America had no constitution and it was up to the states then also. A federal draft is illegal. The courts ruling is a perfect example of the precedent Lincoln set of reading extra constitutional provisions into the constitution that are not there. What part of the 10th Amendment do they and you not understand?”

JJ:
But you only criticize Lincoln for the draft. The Confederacy, which you seem to think was the epitome of States Rights also had a national draft and executed it April 16, 1862, over a year before Lincoln did. Georgia’s governor Joseph Brown warned that he saw the signs of a deep-laid conspiracy on the part of Jefferson Davis to destroy states’ rights and individual liberty.

About 25 percent of Confederate soldiers were drafted, but only 3 percent of the Union Army.

If the Confederacy did not start the national draft then Lincoln probably would not have felt the need to follow.

Blayne:
“As Thomas Jefferson wrote, ‘let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.'”

JJ:
Tell that to Jefferson Davis who forced Lincoln’s hand. Why do you only criticize the lesser of two evils?

Some Constitutional Scholars think a national draft is constitutional and others do not. It is a judgement call that a Constitutional Supreme Court has condoned.

Blayne:
“The government is servant to the people and the people are its master even if the people are wrongly enslaving others.”

JJ:
See my other comments on this. So you would approve of yourself being a slave as long as “the people” are abusing you and not the government. By the way the government is people.

Blayne:
“The federal government can only own property in the states with the consent of the sate and the legislature see Article One, Section 8, Clause 17. If the state withdraws its consent then the federal government has no right to property.”

JJ:
Sorry. The Constitution does not say the states can have the property back if they secede. There is not even a hint of such thing. The federal government had the approval from South Carolina and after that approval they owned the property and the state had no right to force them to sell or giver it back.

Blayne:
“The first aggression was when Lincoln sent reinforcements showing his hostile intent.”

JJ:
It is not an aggression to fortify your own property.

Blayne:
“To further indict Lincoln let it no go unmentioned that he conducted a war without the consent of Congress.”

JJ:
His actions were ratified by Congress after the war started.

Lincoln and a lot of the country viewed the handling of an internal rebellion as a different Constitutional matter than war with another nation. Washington’s suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion was not considered unconstitutional.

Blayne:
“Where do you get this idea? So the newspapers that were shut down were trying to overthrow the government, and the legislators?”

JJ:
Basically, yes. They were thrown in jail for encouraging sedition and desertion. They were not touched for mere disagreement. You ought to read some of the articles the New York Times wrote about Lincoln and the war as proof of this. Again, the South took similar action.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:29 am

Blayne:
“Lincoln was destroying the Constitution. The South had seceded; he destroyed the Constitution by going to war against a sovereign nation when he had no authority via to the Constitution.”

JJ:
He did have authority and he used that authority and he did not destroy the Constitution.

Blayne:
“And they were not threat to the US.”

JJ:
Because of slavery they were a threat to the entire world.

Blayne:
“Your argument is he had the moral right to ignore the Constitution because of slavery.”

JJ:
That is not my argument. He never ignored the Constitution.

Blayne:
“Even though he stated his aim was not to free the slaves therefore your moral argument is now gone because he did not go to war on moral grounds.”

JJ:
Not so. Just before the war he said that the only possible way to avoid war is “upon the consent of this government to the erection of a foreign slave government out of the present slave states…. I see the duty revolving upon me.”

He saw that the only way to prevent a slave state was to do what is necessary to prevent a slave state. I quoted this in my last post. Perhaps you missed it.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“There’s no assumption need here. Lincoln expressed a desire many times in support of freedom for all humans and freedom for the slaves was even part of the Republican platform in 1864.”

Blayne then writes:
“Once again actions speak much louder then words although Lincoln’s own words that he could care less about the slaves also reveal his true motives.”

JJ:

You keep saying this over and over and I correct you over and over. Let me repeat. Lincoln NEVER said he could care less about the slaves. Why do you distort the words of a great man?

Blayne:
“That fact that he contradicts himself in other word only speaks to his being a slimy politician that changes his words to whichever way the wind is blowing.”

JJ:

I think he was the most consistent politician that ever lived. You have no case if you stick to quoting his actual words in context. If you just throw out “Lincoln said” and then add your own words you can make him or even Jesus sound like a villain.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“Those Confederate endorsed Southern supremacy books you’re reading aren’t doing the job for you.”

Blayne:
“Perhaps you could be more specific as to what books you are referring to and if so then you could refute their sources rather then labeling them southern supremacy books to try and discredit them without any evidence.”

JJ:
You mentioned “The Real Lincoln” by Tom DiLorenzo. That is certainly one. Most things you say about Lincoln mirrors some of the material I’ve read in Southern Supremacy material. You really sound like you are parroting what I have read in the past — almost to the extent that I can predict how you will answer next.

Blayne:
“I have and your not including the many slaves they had in the West Indies. You are also ignoring the fact that the law did not emancipate the slaves and that did not happen till later. Britain had been working on freeing slaves for 20 years already.

“http://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/Slavery/articles/sherwood.html”

JJ:
That’s a good article, but nothing in the British empire mirrored the situation of the Confederacy.

JJ quoting himself:
“In the Confederacy over one third of the people were slaves — over 4 million out of around 9 million people. The South felt that they must hold on to them or their economy would collapse. Not only this but they insisted that the “right” to own slaves be expanded westward and to other nations.”

JJ then writes:
You have absolutely no evidence that slavery would have ended any time soon. If it were on the verge of ending then they would not have seceded to preserve slavery.

Blayne:
I in fact am the only one so far who had posted any reference. Why don’t you post a reference for your percentages of those enslaved in the confederacy?”

JJ:
Here is one of many I have come across:

“The South had a population of 9 million, including almost 4 million slaves.”

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_1741500823_18/United_States_History.html

If you want a reference on the fact that The South had intent to expand slavery to Cuba, Mexico and South America read the first 120 pages of “The Battle Cry for Freedom” by James McPherson. The Boise Public Library should have the book as well as the audio of it.

Blayne:
“The evidence is that 14 other countries ended slavery peacefully. You can deny it or spin it all you want that does not make it any less evidence.”

JJ:
Yes, but let me repeat again (sigh) that slavery was much more institutionalized in the South than any of these countries or the Northern States. Instead of diminishing they were seeking to expand it. Many even thought they would lose their “freedom” if they lost their slaves. How ironic!

Blayne:
“The South wanted to expand to the West so of course they wanted to be able to have slavery there, as it was part of their economy and culture, which was agrarian. However your assertion that the soul reason they wanted to expand to the west was to preserve slavery is ridiculous.”

JJ:
I don’t believe I said this. I said they were seeking to expand slavery to the West. Slavery was not the reason they were going west, but in going west they wanted to have slaves. Please argue with what I do say, not with what I do not say.

Blayne:
“One other thing not mentioned is law like the Fugitive Slave Act, which propped up slavery. Incidentally Lincoln strongly supported that law.”

JJ:
You keep accusing Lincoln of going against the Constitution, but the Constitution was the reason he supported this act. Even though he was personally opposed to it he recognized that we were legally bound by it.

Article 4, Section 23 reads:

“No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.”

Thank God Lincoln paved the way for the 13th Amendment which superseded it.

Blayne:
“The abolition of that law would have reduced the profitability of slavery helping speed its demise.”

JJ:
But that would have been unconstitutional and you seem to be for a black and white support of the Constitution come hell or high water.

You are inconsistent here. You say the South had the right to hold slaves because of the states rights provision of the Constitution, yet you think Lincoln should have directly violated the Constitution by opposing the Fugitive Slave Act — which was basically already the law because of the Constitution.

Blayne:
“It has also been mentioned that the advent of the tractor and the cotton gin among other things would have greatly diminished the need for slaves in the South. The first tractors were steam engine and invented around 1868. The cotton gin as already invented about 1802 and later improved I believe.”

JJ:
It’s quite possible the Confederacy would have merely shifted the slaves from the fields to the tractors. I think slavery would have eventually been eliminated but it would have taken much longer than you think — in my opinion. I think Lincoln advanced the cause of human freedom a good 50 years or more. The sacrifice was great, but it was worth it.

One thing we do know for sure and that is right after his election Lincoln saw his choice as to fight or not fight the creation of a slave state. (See previous quote)

Blayne quoting himself:
“You might try Tom DiLorenzo’s “The Real Lincoln” for starters. The tariff had been a source of friction for a long time It almost caused secession several years earlier. It was the real reason for the civil war.”

Blayne quoting JJ:
“If you use logic rather than following the mantras of southern supremacists you could never come to this conclusion.”

Blayne then writes:
“You are very good as subtly trying to change the subject and the argument.

“Your little label of ‘southern supremacy’ is meant to try and change the issue to bolster you false argument that it was about slavery and the moral failings of slavery. Some might fall for this sleight of hand type tactic as it is only meant to bias readers against any disagreement to your argument. It won’t work on me however.”

JJ:

I am accurately educating the readers to the fact that most literature portraying Lincoln as a tyrant or destroyer of the Constitution are people who hold on to the idea that the South was right in its view of Lincoln. These people, of course acknowledge that slavery was wrong but see it as a problem of small significance that would have just faded away without Lincoln.

Ron Paul who has a negative view of Lincoln is closely associated with many of this bent including the Ludwig von Mises Institute which publishes his books.

Thomas E. Woods Jr., a member of the institute’s senior faculty, is a founder of the League of the South, a secessionist group. Paul enthusiastically endorsed Woods’s secessionist endorsing book, saying that it “heroically rescues real history from the politically correct memory hole.”

Blayne:
“I am not arguing that slavery wasn’t wrong and morally repugnant, I agree it is and so do those you try to pin your false label on.”

JJ:
No one is saying this today, but you and the secessionist movements minimize the problem that slavery was. I am with Lincoln in not minimizing the loss of human freedom — no matter the place, the time or the race.

Blayne:
“The issue is did Lincoln need to go to war and kill 600,00 of his countrymen in what is known as the Civil War. The answer is clearly no. Your argument is there was no other way. I contend there was and there is plenty of evidence to support there was some of which I have pointed out.”

JJ:
I haven’t seen any evidence. To compare other countries that did not have institutionalized slavery with the South is fallacious. It is like saying that the Taliban will give equal rights to women soon because other nations have. It’s not likely because they have institutionalized their bias.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“First, let me point out that many of DiLorenzo statements are not true or slanted, but also look for what he conveniently left out of his book to mislead readers. A couple good articles on this can be found at:

“http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.736/article_detail.asp

“http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27396”

Blayne then writes:

“Well the Claremont Institute crowd is not exactly the pillar of honesty, being a government subsidized think tank that shouldn’t be surprising. We could post articles back and forth but it would probably be best to read both sides and weigh the evidence. Here is an article where DiLorenzo responds to the Claremont Institute:
“http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo31.html”

JJ:

I read it. He sounds like a bitter man.

The guy’s refuting people I did not quote and says nothing that effectively counters any of my arguments. He does make a lot of the same arguments you do.

Blayne quoting JJ:
“The tariffs were basically tariffs on the exports of the products of slave labor. Without slavery it would not have been an issue. If slavery was not the main factor then non slave states would have seceded also. This observation alone proves my case.”

Blayne then writes:
“This is simply not true; can you post some evidence for this assertion? Non-slaves states had no bearing. The tariffs were also on imports and were especially high on the manufactured items the Southern states did not produce.”

JJ:
Yes, there were tariffs and taxes on both imports and exports and many in the South felt they were unfair but these alone was not enough to make the South secede.

Of the four states that issued a declaration of cause of secession only Georgia even mentioned the tariff. They all complained of slavery as the main cause:

Here is a statement from Georgia:
“A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party.”

Mississippi:
“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. THERE WAS NO CHOICE LEFT US BUT SUBMISSION TO THE MANDATES OF ABOLITION, OR A DISSOLUTION OF THE UNION,”

South Carolina complains:
“Those (Northern) States have assumed the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.”

Texas:
“In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color — a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.”

See full text at:
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

How clear can the word be? How can one read these declarations and not realize that the problem of slavery was the paramount reason behind secession?

Blayne quoting JJ:
“You are distorting too many facts and quotes here. Lincoln NEVER, I repeat NEVER said he could care less about slavery.”

Blayne then writes:
“Amazing I posted a quote of him saying essentially that and now you are denying it? Here it is again:

“‘My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not to either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.'”

JJ:
There is nothing in that quote about not caring about slavery. I already destroyed the potency of this quote by giving the rest of it. Let me repeat it again what you left out:

“I have here stated my purpose according to my views of official duty and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.”

Does his statement you keep leaving out sound like he couldn’t care less about slavery? An “oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free” certainly shows that he cares, but at the time he officially had to adhere to the publicly accepted objective of saving the union. He had to be careful to stress this in a letter to the most influential newspaper editor in the United States.

Lincoln did not have enough support in the North for abolition to appear to be promoting it too much so he had to be careful in his wording.

April 16, 2011
To compare Lincoln to Hitler doesn’t make any sense at all to me. When in a war fighting for survival extreme measures are always taken and the criticisms aimed toward Lincoln could be made as much or more toward Jefferson Davis. This is a point Dilorenzo seems to be mysteriously silent on.

If one had a grudge toward George Washington he could also make a case that he was a tyrant for he used strong authority when necessary.

Like Larry, I receive a great vibration from the man when I read anything about him, even from his enemies and especially from his own words. I am certainly in good company for DK calls him a “Racial Avatar” on the side of light coming forth “from the very soul of a people, and introducing and transmitting racial quality to be worked out later as the race unfolds.” White Magic Page 298

He also says “The power which the New Group of World Servers will eventually yield, will be drawn from two sources: first, from that inner centre or subjective world government, whose members are responsible for the spread of those ideals and ideas which have led humanity onwards from age to age. This inner centre has always existed and the great leaders of the race, in every field, have been connected with it. The great idealists and world workers, (such as the Christ and His great brother, the Buddha, and those lesser workers, such as Plato, Spinoza, Abraham Lincoln, or Florence Nightingale) have all been associated with this centre.”

If DK is truly a Master working under the direction of the Christ this would mean that even the greatest of us all sees Lincoln as a great initiate.

Jesus said that we can recognize true workers and teachers by their fruits. “By their fruits ye shall know them.”

Here are some of Lincoln’s fruits.

(1) He is the most quoted president or world leader of all time and many of his words stir the soul and almost have the ring of scripture.

Many quote Lincoln’s words. Who quotes Hitler or any other tyrant?

Next to Jesus he gave the most famous speech of all time, the Gettysburg Address.

Historians almost universally rate him as our greatest president.

He freed the slaves. This was one of the greatest accomplishments by any man in history. If we had not fought the Civil War I believe the slaves would not have been free until about the 1960’s. Instead of struggling for civil rights we would have still been dealing with the slavery issue.

He preserved the Union. If we were a divided nation during World War II it is quite possible Hitler would have won the war.

He supported the construction of the first transcontinental railroad.

He supported for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West and greatly increased the wealth of the American people.

He defied the national and international bankers and refused to borrow money at high interest and issued greenbacks that cost us no interest.

He set an example of honesty and integrity that has inspired millions.

He initiated Thanksgiving as a national holiday.

He signed a proclamation for a day of national fasting and prayer.

There are many stories giving evidence of his kindness and compassion. He planned on being forgiving and compassionate in victory – not something a tyrant would have done.

He had a great sense of humor and told many funny as well as teaching stories.

Copyright 2011 by J J Dewey

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Joseph Smith and Lincoln

This entry is part 38 of 62 in the series 2010

John C posted an interview with a biographer of Joseph Smith located at:
Go to Article

Here are my comments

I enjoyed the interview but didn’t notice anything very controversial. He pointed out some of Joseph’s flaws and human frailties but you can also get a feeling of them from reading the orthodox History of the Church.

The one thing in the interview that was new was Joseph’s period of melancholy when alone similar to Abraham Lincoln. Actually, I haven’t seem much evidence of this in either men.

This melancholy is widely written about Lincoln but I have seen little hard evidence. It seems to be mostly derived from Lincoln’s reflections on his responsibility for the war and what his judgment before God will be because of it. I have never got the impression that he spent a lot of time in moody reflection.

It is interesting that Joseph and Lincoln were two main figures in history that were constantly called “old’ when they were young. Joseph was frequently called “Ole Joe” and Lincoln was often called “Ole Abe.” They were called this by friend and foe alike. Maybe it was a subconscious recognition that they were old souls.

Here are some interesting parallels:

Both their wives were difficult to get along with and both had terrible tempers.

They both rose to prominence in Illinois.

The both had famous Bible names.

Words from their speeches are often quoted with about as much authority as scripture.

They were both hated by the press.

They were both described as unpolished.

They were both self educated and had little formal schooling.

Neither joined any orthodox church.

They both had great physical strength and were taller than most.

They were both either loved or hated.

Both had doubts that blacks and whites could peaceably live together in a free state and thought it would be best if the blacks had their own country.

They were both assassinated with gunfire.

An attempt was made to kill associates of both men.

It is thought that some within the inner circles of both men supported their assassinations.

Both men had premonitions of their death.

Martyrdom greatly increased the stature of both men.

Copyright 2010 by J J Dewey