2004 - WEEK 2 39912 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 From: d.linen Subject: OT The Arabic Bible Van Dyke Translation http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/docbible.htm Translated by Smith & Van Dyke in1865 . ???? ??? ?????? 39913 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Keith Harris Subject: And it came to pass... On a Clear Day In ancient Israel, it came to pass that a trader by the name of Abraham Com did take unto himself a young wife by the name of Dot. And Dot Com was a comely woman, broad of shoulder and long of leg. Indeed, she had been called Amazon Dot Com. She said unto Abraham, her husband, "Why doth thou travel far from town to town with thy goods when thou can trade without ever leaving thy tent?" And Abraham did look at her as though she were several saddle bags short of a camel load, but simply said, "How, Dear?" And Dot replied, "I will place drums in all the towns and drums in between to send messages saying what you have for sale and they will reply telling you which hath the best price. And the sale can be made on the drums and delivery made by Uriah's Pony Stable (UPS)." Abraham thought long and decided he would let Dot have her way with the drums. The drums rang out and were an immediate success. Abraham sold all the goods he had at the top price, without ever moving from his tent. But this success did arouse envy. A man named Maccabia did secrete himself inside Abraham's drum and was accused of insider trading. And the young man did take to Dot Com's trading as doth the greedy horsefly take to horse flesh, and, before very long, there were many others and they were called Nomadic Ecclesiastical Rich Dominican Siderites, or NERDS forshort. And lo, the land was so feverish with joy at the new riches and the deafening sound of drums, that no one noticed that the real riches were going to the drum maker, one Brother William of Gates, who bought up every drum company in the land. And indeed did insist on making drums that would work only with Brother Gates' drumheads and drumsticks. Dot did say, "Oh, Abraham, what we have started is being taken over by others." And as Abraham looked out over the Bay of Ezekiel, (or as it came to be known "eBay" ) he said, "we need a name that reflects what we are," and Dot replied, "Young Ambitious Hebrew Owner Operators." "YAHOO", said Abraham. And that is how it all began. It wasn't Al Gore after all. 39914 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Rstarryglow Subject: Re: OT Response to John re MM John: She "wanted to show off herself to the others"?? What is that if not glamour? To continually flaunt one's special relationship in the faces of those who might be jealous of it seems a bit contrary to the idea of a molecular relationship. That would be like Artie hanging all over JJ at a gathering and not letting anybody else near him. I can't even imagine that happening. And if JJ wanted to take somebody aside (even a female Keyster) to talk to them privately, I couldn't picture Artie following along making sure nothing happened, or just to show the other Keysters what she could get away with. I don't know JJ or Artie, but what you have described is a pretty sick relationship. Me: John you have misconstrued my statement. I said MM would not want to seem like she wanted to show off her status to the other Disciples by hanging off or wrapping herself around Jesus while He was walking along. In those days women were *supposed* to be subservient? Were they not? So she probably followed Jesus instead of walking next to Him, which would have been judged as the right thing to do by women in those days. Me even thinking that Jesus and MM had any sort of a sick relationship is just ludicrous too, I cant even believe that you would think such a thing of me? Do I come across as that kind of person? This is what my sentence said, and to my comprehension I was pointing out that MM wasnt going to bathe herself in glory by walking next to Jesus, but was following Him from behind because thats probably what women did in that culture in those times. So please explain to me how you came to the assumption that you thought I was saying she wanted to bathe in glamour of the moment?????"she followed Him from behind because she was not intimidated by Him or wanted to show off herself to the others" I said OR not AND she wanted to show off herself...You have read this passage the wrong way John! And then you try to accuse me of tainting their love relationship! John: It says "the disciple whom Jesus loved", but it does not say "the ONLY disciple whom Jesus loved". Me: Then why havent they named that Disciple by name instead of calling that person Beloved Disciple? All the other Disciples had names. Why single out one particular person, unless she happened to be FEMALE instead of male. Me: Is Peter suggesting here, that the beloved Disciple betrayed Jesus? I dont quite understand this passage at all.....and how was Jesus betrayed? John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also LEANED on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? John: JJ reads the Bible and gives it a fairly high score as far as being truthful, although he rates some parts higher than others. He said that he thought the Aquarian Gospel was more accurate than the New Testament. As he reads the Bible, he applies his line of authority for truth: soul confirmation, common sense, trusted authorities..." Me: Ok then, does it make me any less knowledgeable or less spiritual or less likely to have soul contact because I have not read the Bible? Why arent we researching only the bible then here? Why is AAB and Dk studied here more than the Bible then? Christian people have told me that the Bible is the truth and nothing but the truth. I never believed that ALL the truth was in the Bible, luckily for me, as that is how I came to be here. Why did I stay here in this spot, and not let anyone or anything budge me from this place on the Keysters, even when a lot of my queries are not answered? Deep down I have thought that JJ will write about the answers Ive always searched for? I have stayed here, because over the years the same things I wrote about or thought in my head are the same things JJ talks about, so did I have soul contact or did I just tap into the Universal consciousness with JJ and all the others, and if so, then what is soul contact, if not a tapping into the Universal Consciousness of God, where we can All share that same soul contact. I wish I had the time to read the entire Bible and research it all and look up every single word I dont understand in there, which believe me is most of the words written in that strange way of ancient days, but as I have three children to raise and a day job as well to support them, I dont get a lot of time to just sit and read, except for a few hours a day or late at night. I dont need to justify myself here to you either because I am not well versed in the Bible, and you are. John, a lot of the Bible passages go way over my head, maybe Im just plain too dumb to understand what they were writing about, as I prefer plain English, and I am not as educated as a lot of other people here, however, I do go with what my heart, soul and mind is saying or leading to particular areas towards the Bible or Dks writings etc. So if you truly believe that all of the Bible was written by men, then I accept that as your opinion, Im just pointing out that women can write too and are quite intuitive/instinctive to higher realms also. AussieRuth 39915 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Keith Harris Subject: RE: Re: OT A quote from MM I keep reading MM and thinking why are people quoting Marylin Monroe. Then I begin to think... humm.... if I were Jesus I would have made MM my favorite disciple as well. Rapter Keith (If you have a choice between allowing some sweaty smelly fishermen lay his head on your breast or MM - who would you choose? This is a no brainer and one doesn't have to be a budding disciple/master, or past President of the United States to figure it out. Then I get this mental picture of HPB/JFK and MM in bed together. I don't know - I think I just proved J.J's theory wrong. Writing anaylsis aside the mental picture puts J.J.'s theory to rest.) 39916 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: OT A quote from MM Hi Keith, Thanks so much for the laugh, I needed that! PS to John: Im still trying to work out if Jesus only loves you and has a good relationship with you, if you are a Disciple??????? Does Jesus love us because He loves every human being in the World? As that is unconditional love, a love with no conditions placed around it. OR Does Jesus only love you if you follow the path of Discipleship? Oh, and I remember JJ writing something about the beast controlling and working through a certain book as well, or did I just imagine that too? AussieRuth One day I will read the entire Bible, and one day I will read all of the AAB books, even if it takes me the next 40 years to do it! LOL 39917 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: OT The Lamb "And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel." Ruth: Why didnt Nephi say, "behold that the name of the Beloved Disciple of the Lamb is John, according to the word of the Angel."??????? I wont be convinced until someone can point me to the passage written somewhere in the World that says, "Behold the writer of the Bible was John, Peter and Paul and whomever else was in the writing of this Book." It may seem very trivial to most people, but I think MaryM has been under-estimated in this period of time for too long. There is so little information around about her and parts of her writings are missing, why is that? (Considering she was that close to Jesus!) I agree that there is John the Beloved. I agree that there is MM the one that Jesus had a sexual love affair with or even married. I dont agree that this Bible was exclusively written by the "boys club". What will happen next, that only men can write on the keys list? And only their opinions will count in the future Keys Archives/Books? Beloved = Much loved, very dear (person). Why werent all the Disciples called Beloved Disciples if they were just as *much loved* as Mary? Why wasnt John the Beloved just called John the Beloved Disciple? Jesus had *much love* for Mary, maybe even a little bit more love for her because he was having a sexual relationship with her, and NOT all the MALE Disciples, and that is the difference between Beloved Disciple and John the Beloved. The sexual relationship between the two of them brought their bond even closer together spiritually, (the molecular relationship He had with the boys was via the Mind not the other regions). Although people can point out that sex is just sex, (and yes it can be), but sex between two outstanding figures such as Jesus and Mary, is more than just bodily contact, and seals the bond between the both of them even tighter, or maybe Im just being an imaginative romantic (and not in some sick kind of way either). Mary's love for Jesus is second to none! God would have wanted them to join together sexually to strengthen that earthly bond and love that they had for each other. Maybe I should just shut up LOL! (I can hear ya John!) Dont worry, this is the last thing Im going to say on the matter! AussieRuth 39918 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Kim Jurs Subject: Re: God's greatest gift Hi john! Thank you for taking the time! Heard of the boy in high school who was sooooo in love with this girl, so he asked and asked and prayed and prayed to the lord for her to become his but it never happened? So he grows up and several years later when he and his wife was out one day, he meets his old high school flame, they talk for a bit and then he looks at his wife and thanked the lord that she had become his and he thanked the lord for unanswered prayers. My english isnt all that but do you see what i mean?? Maybe this lad didnt recognize the answer he got, or liked it, what do i know?! But he probably still believes don't you think????? Love and light..Kim John C wrote: I've thought about this statement and I don't agree with it. Using JJ's line of authority for truth detection, this statement does not agree with my soul, doesn't make sense, and doesn't agree with my trusted authorities. Sorry, I can't give you a short snappy answer like the initiate Garth Brooks. Here are a checklist of reasons why God seems not to answer, off the top of my head - (I'm bald, too, but I don't cover it up with a hat.) Maybe you are praying to the wrong God. Maybe you aren't sincere in your request. Maybe you aren't ready to hear the answer. Maybe you weren't listening for the answer, or didn't really expect an answer. Maybe you didn't like or didn't recognize the answer you got. Maybe you asked the wrong question. Maybe instead of just giving you something or telling you something, God wants you to do it for yourself or find it out for yourself. THEN ask. 39919 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Kim Jurs Subject: The bible Hi everyone!! How can we believe the Bible?? This is a "Book" who have been translated through thousands of years and by thousands of people, at least by hundreds!!! Help me understand!!!!?? love and light, kim 39920 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: The bible Kim wrote: How can we believe the Bible?? This is a "Book" who have been translated through thousands of years and by thousands of people, at least by hundreds!!! Help me understand!!!!?? Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamour, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamour, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceit that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, 39921 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: J J Dewey Subject: Authorities It was suggested the other day that we present my analysis of the handwritings of HPB and JFK to expert handwriting analysts to see if they agree with me. The only problem with this is that there are no experts I know of who know how to compare handwritings of two separate lifetimes for a probable match. Most authorities are only authorities in what they have been trained to look for. And even in standard forgery work many experts disagree. There should be little disagreement in this area, however, for the detecting of forgery is close to an exact science. Even so some judgment is still required and there is still some disagreement. I'm sure you have heard of court cases where the experts disagree. I remember a time many years ago that there was a big controversy over some early LDS documents and their authenticity. What was ironical was that the LDS experts interpreted handwriting in their favor and the anti Mormon experts interpreted against the church. I took a look at the two samples and saw immediately that the two samples were written by two different individuals just as the church had maintained. I noticed that the church experts didn't seem to be making a good case, however, so I wrote up my analysis giving various handwriting comparisons similar to what I did on HPB/JFK and sent it to church headquarters. I never heard anything back, but I did notice about a month later that the Church published another defense of their position, this time using some of the comparisons I sent them. I think it must have worked for I never hard of any more attacks along this line from the other side again. It is also interesting that expert analysts have disagreed on whether the handwriting of the Mahatma letters was by H. P. Blavatsky. I'm sure that if I could look at them I could tell in about five minutes. Another area where the experts disagree is in the translation of the ancient Biblical Hebrew and Greek into modern English. These ancient languages seem so complicated to a beginner that many would never dare question a scholar or team of scholars it takes to do a biblical translation. The fact is that many are too intimidated by experts and scholars and if he true be known an average person with a little common sense is as good a judge as the experts if they have the right materials before them to examine. For instance, the orthodox translation of Matthew 24:3 reads "Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" "World" her comes from the Greek AION from which the English Aeon, or eon is derived. This signified a definite period of time with a beginning and an end and is more appropriately translated as "age." Even though this translation should be beyond dispute many of the experts still use the "end of the world" translation. Over the years I have given you many mistranslations from the Bible that readers have been able to check with their own resources and discover that I spoke the truth and many of the experts were in error. The sad fact is this. If you are forging new ground and then call the experts in they will often be less likely to see the truth an will the average guy with the facts in front of him. This is why I painstakingly dissected the two handwritings and placed various elements side by side so you can see and judge for yourself. If you trust your judgment you will be able to be as accurate as many experts. What do I think another handwriting expert may think if he looked at the web page? Some would find it quite fascinating and others would see the minor differences and go by their training based on comparing two samples living in the same time frame and then criticize my conclusions. It doesn't hurt to listen to a true expert, but much more important is to find out some of the details for yourself and get a feel as to how accurate the expert really is. After all, many of the experts who have done Biblical translations have starkly left out entire words and phrases they didn't agree with. An expert may have completed the translation, but the average guy with a little common sense will know that something is wrong when words and phrases that do not conform to a belief system are just left out. I thus designed the analysis in such a way that the reader can look at the comparisons, use his own mind and come to his own judgment on the matter and be an expert in his own right. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and feel as true, the subconscious can and must objectify." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 39922 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:33:55 -0600 (CST) From: Lawrence Kennon lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities JJ: It is also interesting that expert analysts have disagreed on whether the handwriting of the Mahatma letters was by H. P. Blavatsky. I'm sure that if I could look at them I could tell in about five minutes. Ok Glenys, do you know where we can get some copies or extracts from these "Mahatma Letters" for JJ? There has to be some copies online somewhere? Just how many of these were there anyway? We would probably need handwriting samples of other associates of HPB too like Sinnett, don't you think? This sounds like a project! :) lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39923 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:41:13 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities Has anyone ever seen this book, or have a copy? Did Madame Blavatsky Forge the Mahatma Letters 1934 by C. Jinarajadasa http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0766157881/qid=1073911048/sr=1-1/ref=sr11/102-3591075-7072959? v=glance&s=books According to this website the book has "specimens of the script": http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/shearman8.html " Evidence with regard to their phenomenal mode of delivery on many occasions can be studied by anybody who is interested; and there are sufficient reproductions of them, quite apart from the actual manuscripts, to enable anybody to form some opinion as to whether they could be forgeries or pseudographs. The arguments may be studied along with specimens of the scripts in Mr. C. Jinarajadasa' book Did Madame Blavatsky Forge the Mahatma Letters?" lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39924 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:53:09 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities This site may have some useful samples? If I am reading it correctly Figure 2. is "K.H."? http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-spr/hpb-spr1.htm lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39925 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:32 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: RE: Re: The bible Dear Aruth.... thank you for guiding me on to the right path! I really WANT to learn,so i'm glad i'm here! Couse i'we allways had and still have this "feeling". I KNOW THERE IS MORE!!! Love and light Kim Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamor, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamor, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, 39926 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:14:15 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Response to John re MM R: Ok then, does it make me any less knowledgeable or less spiritual or less likely to have soul contact because I have not read the Bible? Why arent we researching only the bible then here? Why is AAB and Dk studied here more than the Bible then? John: Who said or implied that you are less spiritual because you don't read the Bible? In your words, you are "misconstruing" my statement. Let's put it another way. If a person wants to have a discussion on a topic, they should at least have a passing familiarity with the topic under discussion. You asked me to read the MM website with an open mind. It is not fair and just to expect the same of you? The Bible is one authority among many for teaching truth. It has been shown to be a fairly reliable authority. It is not the ONLY authority, but it does confirm many truths found in other sources such as AAB/DK. R: Christian people have told me that the Bible is the truth and nothing but the truth. I never believed that ALL the truth was in the Bible, luckily for me, as that is how I came to be here. John: How fortunate for you. I am not "Christian people". I am me. So, if you are willing listen to another opinion on this matter, I will tell you this as my independent opinion. I don't rely on other people to tell what to think about anything. I have read the Bible for myself and found that it contains truth, but not the whole truth, and it contains things which are not the truth. I also learned the important lesson that it is more important what I think about the Bible or any other book of wisdom than what I am TOLD to think about it. If somebody comes on the Keys and tells me about a great book or passage in DK, I read it for myself and form my *own* opinion. I have made the mistake in the past of deciding not to read something because of the opinions of others. I have found that this close-minded attitude has cost me dearly in terms of soul growth and missed opportunity. Now, I listen to my soul and trust it to direct me to what I need to read. R: Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. John: Excellent idea. We are all tangled in a web of deceipt, but it our job to untangle ourselves. JJ offers many ways for us to do that. I could offer some more. But one common thread that runs through all teachings about getting out of this "trap" is to think for yourself and not simply go on second-hand opinions. R: The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. John: It might also help, just a little, if one *applies* what one has learned. That's the only way one can understand or know the working of true principles. This is, in itself, a true principle. R: Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? John: Willingness to know the truth? Open heart? Then why the aversion to at least taking a look at the record which we are discussing? If you believe so much that MM wrote the fourth gospel, then why don't you at least read of this person you have so much faith in, and that so we can have an informed discussion. R: Im still trying to work out if Jesus only loves you and has a good relationship with you, if you are a Disciple??????? Does Jesus love us because He loves every human being in the World? As that is unconditional love, a love with no conditions placed around it. OR Does Jesus only love you if you follow the path of Discipleship? Oh, and I remember JJ writing something about the beast controlling and working through a certain book as well, or did I just imagine that too? John: I'm not accusing you of imagining anything, if that's what you are implying. Yes, I recall that JJ spoke about the beast working through the Bible. But the Bible was written by a number of masters and initiates, and it is still being taught by a number of masters and initiates, so the Bible can be used to both liberate and enslave. It is up to us to discern right use of truth. Like your quote from JJ, whenever a new revelation comes forth, there is a tendanccy to attack or distort it so at to blunt the impact of truth. Here's a picture from the Bible to illustrate this truth: the woman in the wilderness was about to deliver a baby (the kingdom), and the dragon was waiting to devour the baby as soon as it was born. As far as Jesus loving discisples, you brought up the issue of Jesus loving Mary more than he loved the others, not me. The four gospels, when they speak of the love Jesus has for his disciples, the love he and his father share, and the love which disciples should have for one another, he uses the same Greek word AGAPE (unconditional love). I mentioned this before in an earlier post. R: Is Peter suggesting here, that the beloved Disciple betrayed Jesus? I dont quite understand this passage at all.....and how was Jesus betrayed? John: Read the Bible. I don't have time to explain it. I wonder why we are even having this discussion. Did you read the article you referred me to and asked me to read? I not only read it, I analyzed it in my previous post. This article did a good job of explaining these passages and exploring the issues. Like I said, I learned a lot from this article, R: So if you truly believe that all of the Bible was written by men, then I accept that as your opinion, Im just pointing out that women can write too and are quite intuitive/instinctive to higher realms also. John: Let's stick to the subject of this "debate". I am discussing the authorship of the fourth gospel, not my opinion of whether all the Bible was written by men. I never for once suggested that women couldn't write and that they are not "intuitive/instinctive to higher realms". I have read all of A Course in Miracles, which came through a woman -- Helen Shucman. I have read probably 1/4 of AAB. In each instance, the language is sublime and it speaks to my soul. But, I am not concerned with whether the writing came through a man or a woman. They are just a channel. Nothing more. To my mind this "debate" was about evidence for authorship of the fourth gospel. It appears to me that your bottom line is my opinion of whether I think women are spiritually intuitive and whether they wrote parts of a book you refuse to read. I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. 39927 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:00:55 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: FW: (unknown) Dear Dewey.. Excuse me for asking,becouse this might seem a little late to ask about since you have probably discussed this issue before but i have looked in the archives about aliens and extraterestreal life but couldn't find satisfactory knowledge conserning this topic.. So what we want to know is if some of the aliens described by people like:eks(Whitley Strieber) are what they try to say they are.And that that they are good and try to help us with expantion of the mind to the higher conciounsness. And if they are apart of the brotherhood of light?? And by quoting Whitley Strieber :He once asked them in a close encounter experience "Who or what are you and what is the earth?" And the alien he spoke to answered:"We are rescyclers of souls and the Earth is a school.And the being was one of the so called "greys"... What is your opinion about this! I espessially want an opinion from you JJ.Byt everybody is more than wellcome to send us their opinion.. Love and light Kim & Jan-Hallvard 39928 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:52:58 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: OT - Soul Confirmation A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I know the standard answer: "the soul is a master on its own plane", but I'm looking for more than standard answers. This is something I'm going to research this myself, but if anybody already knows the answer, I would appreciate hearing it. Thanks 39929 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:39:20 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I don't know if I already know the answer, and all I know is the following and whether it answers your question I don't know...know what I mean (grin)... ....if the "the soul" is the point of interaction/interplay between "spirit and matter" (the body in this instance), then would it not get "it's information" from The Solar Angel and/or Angel Of Presence--or Monad (?) ...which (to the best of my knowledge) has the principles of "oneness" at it's/their disposal. (?) ...when previously studying this, what I thought was curious was DK statements to the effect (or how I interpreted them to mean) of how as "the sould is a master on it's own plane", that it is "content" there, and that "we" (in the form of our awareness on this plane) needed to "prode/poke" it" in order to get it's "attention", otherwise, it was "fine" with being as it was. Bryan 39930 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:26:31 -0000 From: "Seth" Newburrs78@... Subject: New Member Hey everyone I just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Seth. I look forward to learning alot from the discussions here. 39931 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:11:41 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks, Bryan, but that doesn't help. Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Does it just "know" it, or did it learn it through past experiernce. I have been finding some wonderful material researching this in AAB, but it's raising more questions than answers. This is the kind of stuff I am interested in and why I am here to learn. I want to know about knowing and about our fundamental natures and how we can more effectively evolve as individuals and groups. I know some "things" and I want to know how what I know fits into what JJ teaches and what DK teaches. Bryan wrote: ....if the "the soul" is the point of interaction/interplay between "spirit and matter" (the body in this instance), then would it not get "it's information" from The Solar Angel and/or Angel Of Presence--or Monad (?) ...which (to the best of my knowledge) has the principles of "oneness" at it's/their disposal. (?) ...when previously studying this, what I thought was curious was DK statements to the effect (or how I interpreted them to mean) of how as "the sould is a master on it's own plane", that it is "content" there, and that "we" (in the form of our awareness on this plane) needed to "prode/poke" it" in order to get it's "attention", otherwise, it was "fine" with being as it was. Bryan 39932 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:38:23 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Hmmm, okay...and why don't you just ask your soul "how it knows"? (big grin). How is it that you believe that the learning process is any different than the learning process that you experience? Are you not part of that learning experience for your soul? ...again, it being the "point of interplay" between spirit and matter? From what I have learned (grin), is that the soul has had many periods of "past learning" from which it would seem to be able to drawn upon...and again, if it is "the point of interplay", "being privy to the spirit", it would seem that it would inherently have the "knowledge of principles" plus the knowledge of experience. I don't see this as any different than the "knowledge and experience" as possessed and/or accumulated by our Solar Angel or our Angel Of Presence as it relates to their "previous existences". I guess that I'm just not at that point in my evolution where I am consciously aware that I am "a dweller in the body", and there are two other "parts" (soul and spirit) "in here" with me as well...and that I need to know "how" my soul "knows", or how my "spirit" knows. At present, it is sufficient for me to "know that it knows" or "they know", and that's it's me that doesn't ;-) Hopefully someone else can better assist you in your quest. Best of luck. Bryan 39933 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:30:22 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). "Technically, the soul is represented by that point of invisible interplay between spirit and matter which is neither spirit or matter, neither form nor formless. Physically it is represented by that point where land, water and air meet which is neither wet nor dry, the magical point of the soul, the place where white magic of the Christ consciousness is wrought." p://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=1015&idx=1000 lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39934 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:12:57 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation OK, this helps to define terms. JJ goes on in this same post: "Nevertheless, this is an important point to cover periodically because soul contact by aspiring disciples is perhaps the most needed asset for servers as we enter the coming age of peace." "Understanding soul contact is also amplified by the fact that soul is generically applied to the astral body, the Spiritual Triad, the Monad, the Universal Presence etc. I sometimes myself use the word "soul" when referring to the "Higher Self" but even this fits because the Higher self must be contacted through the door of soul or soul contact." So, I suppose the soul would be the place where our physical self has interplay with any of the above. Thanks for the clarification, Larry. I need to go back and rethink a few things, do some more reading, and rephrase my question. Larry wrote: John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). "Technically, the soul is represented by that point of invisible interplay between spirit and matter which is neither spirit or matter, neither form nor formless. Physically it is represented by that point where land, water and air meet which is neither wet nor dry, the magical point of the soul, the place where white magic of the Christ consciousness is wrought." 39935 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:21:37 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I found another post which clears up the difference between the "soul" and the "solar angel": http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=448 "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." This answers one of my questions right here. About whether our Solar Angel lived on a physical planet before. The answer seems to be yes. So, if you called me on the phone, I would say "It's Larry." Somebody might get confused and think I have a phone named Larry, but the phone is just a medium (the soul), not the person (solar angel) on the other end of the line. Thanks for bearing with me. I'll shut up now until I can rethink what it is I am really asking. Larry wrote: wrote: John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). 39936 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:26:47 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Lawrence Kennon wrote: This sounds like a project! :) Yes, it does, Larry but not for me! lolol I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Love Glenys 39937 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:45:38 -0600 (CST) From: Lawrence Kennon lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities Glenys: I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Cool! I hadn't see that in Rays and Initations (probably cause I never felt moved to look). So to summarize then, according to DK/AAB whom JJ gives a lot of credence to it is clear that HPB flat out forged the vast majority of these letters? :) lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39938 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:51:23 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Yes. JJ has written about this before eg in Message 1049, Flawed Disciples, ' She [meaning HPB] wrote most of the Mahatma letters herself and arranged to have them mysteriously delivered to A. P. Sinnett who believed and proclaimed them as materialized letters from the Masters....' Love Glenys Lawrence Kennon wrote: Glenys: I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Cool! I hadn't see that in Rays and Initations (probably cause I never felt moved to look). So to summarize then, according to DK/AAB whom JJ gives a lot of credence to it is clear that HPB flat out forged the vast majority of these letters? :) 39939 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Truth and Light Thank you so much for this information. Will have to purchase the book after reading this. Glenys Lowery wrote: John Crane wrote: Apparently Mary Magdalene was the *Beloved Disciple*(not John the Beloved) and wrote the Fourth(?) Gospel. Im sure you have read these John C? Yes, I ran across this theory the other day on the Internet. This would be an interesting topic for discussion. In John's gospel, women play a bigger role, and the writing displays a more intuitive insight into the motivations of people, IMO. Some people might argue on that basis alone that the gospel was written by a woman - Mary Magdalene. From everything I have read over the years, I would be *most* surprised if the Gospel of John was written by anyone other than John. I think he was in touch with his 'feminine side' and perhaps more open to the feminine perspective and that comes out in His writings. For those who haven't yet come across it, here's the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (or the fragment they've found). Love Glenys 39940 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:09:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: RE HPB/JFK Your quote says iti all, Glenys. "Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." - Walter Lippmann 39941 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). I am happy to be a part of the Keys and will not be going anywhere but right here. Challenges are good as it is a driving force for me. Without challenges, none of us would progress. I may be new to the list but not new to knowledge. May we all continue to grow in light and unconditional love. 39942 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:01:34 EST From: BTrodlier@... Subject: Re: New Member Bil David writes: Seth it is good to have you as part of the Keysters. If you came to my oasis, I would serve you water and dates. 39943 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:25:07 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear Bryan, When you are in your car do you think you are the car? When you are in your body do you think you are that body? Every seven years all the cells in the body are replaced. Do you think you are a different person every seven years? When you speak of your body, you say, "my eye", or "my hand"or "my leg" to identify parts of your body , but this is no different from saying "my steering wheel" or "my headlights", etc. when speaking if your car. Your body is just a vehicle, just like your car. Just like you are the driver of you car, the spirit/soul within you is the driver of your body. When the body dies you continue in another body; not as dense as the physical body, but a body just the same. This is what "out of body" experience is all about. Ruth W 39944 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:46:54 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: O.T. Solar Angel Dear John, You posted this quote in your last message: "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." Nowhere does it say that the Solar Angel had a physical or dense body in the past. My bellief is that it did not. Ruth W. 39945 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:02:14 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing Evelyn White-Bey wrote: JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). I'm sure we can all understand that Evelyn. I generally only take my foot out of my mouth long enough to put the other one in :-) Fortunately, it has been a while since anyone has been attacked on the Keys list and I certainly didn't see your comment to me as an 'attack' as such. Rather I regarded it as an unfortunate choice of words compounded by the fact that I had just written to a timid lurker encouraging them to post to the list and explaining that it was 'safe' environment. And it is in the main. I'm very pleased you're here with us, Evelyn, and delighted that you intend to participate fully in the discussions. Love Glenys 39946 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:11:48 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Truth and Light Well, if you're talking about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, there is nothing to purchase. What I posted was all they've found; just the one fragment. It's online if you do a search. Love Glenys Evelyn White-Bey wrote: Thank you so much for this information. Will have to purchase the book after reading this. 39947 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:27:48 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Yes, I intellectually (mentally) understand these concepts, and did even way before I ever had contact with JJ and his teachings. What I was alluding to was that I have not reached a state of "awareness" where I at any time do not actually "feel" that I am not "fully integrated" with my physical body. No, not that I am not aware that there is "a part of me" that is "separate" and can choose to accept/reject "input" from the body, soul/spirit and experience. But not to a point where I am not "affected by" (or detached from) the input from these "sources". And no, I not stating that this is something I desire or that is to be desired as a "step" in "the knowing" of such things "as my soul" or about it (per JohnC's question). I think I remember a "mantram" from the raja yoga book that I once talked about coming into contact with some 20+ years ago where it gave a suggested mantram something to the effect that, "I am not my body, I am not my emotions, I am not my mind." Funny, I even remember how I reacted the first time I read this--something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, then what am I if I am not these things?" I now can reply with "I am Decision" (or the power of decision). You speak of continuing in another body not as dense as the physical body. Are you speaking of the etheric body? If so, does this not dissipate after about three days after you die? Or sooner if you choose to be cremated? No, I'm not discounting the importance of the etheric body, and have a fairly good understanding of just how important it is to us...in the here and now. How I access it is another matter that I have yet to explore and understand. Regards Bryan 39948 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:47:29 -0600 From: "Mindy" burgem@... Subject: RE: OT - Soul Confirmation From: John Crane A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I know the standard answer: "the soul is a master on its own plane", but I'm looking for more than standard answers. This is something I'm going to research this myself, but if anybody already knows the answer, I would appreciate hearing it. Hi John, Have you by any chance listened to the audio from the first gathering in McCall? Many of your questions might find answers there :) These words (below) should be considered only as unofficial paraphrasing. Maybe one day soon the transcription of the McCall Gathering will be available. Mindy Here are various lines of JJ's explanation given there/then: The soul is basically a doorway between the physical reality and the spirit. The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Soul is that energy of interplay. It's like a doorway so soul contact is that point in between or as it's written esoterically it's the point where land, water and air meet, which is neither wet nor dry. It's that mysterious point that is a doorway between the physical reality and the spiritual reality. The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form. What the spirit can do is to recognize truth. It recognizes it rather than having a mind that holds all the truth, so to speak. . . . spirit has the ability to recognize truth because spirit interplays through soul with matter and it recognizes all things transpiring in all worlds. 39949 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:18:58 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing Eve, JJ is talking about people joining the list in "full attack mode". Those who have been on the list for awhile knew exactly what he was talking about, and I am sure that he wasn't referring to you. There was "Chris" and "Felix" and many more that others would name. We all have our skeptical moments from time to time. But, nobody here views what you said as an attack. If you stick around for awhile, you'll find out what a real attack is, Evelyn wrote: JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). 39950 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:22:19 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: O.T. Solar Angel Ruthangel wrote: Dear John, You posted this quote in your last message: "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." Nowhere does it say that the Solar Angel had a physical or dense body in the past. My bellief is that it did not. Ruth W. Ruth, I was simply quoting a post from JJ. That was one of my original questions: did the Solar Angel ever have a body and go through a physical existence like we are doing now? I really don't know one way or the other. That's what I am trying to find out. 39951 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:36:44 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks for the explanation, Mindy. I believe your answer contains the answer to my question, but now I have to study this out and see what it says. A lot to think about. Mindy wrote: The soul is basically a doorway between the physical reality and the spirit. The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Soul is that energy of interplay. The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form. What the spirit can do is to recognize truth. It recognizes it rather than having a mind that holds all the truth, so to speak. . . . spirit has the ability to recognize truth because spirit interplays through soul with matter and it recognizes all things transpiring in all worlds. 39952 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:32:56 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Avatar Invocation JJ gave us an invocation some time back and I would like to repeat it for our newcomers. It is a cool thing to add to your daily meditations and prayers. Be prepared for a different energy then you may have experienced. It is pretty powerful. "From the center where the Will of God is known, let Purpose guide the little wills of men. "Let the One Great Life manifest his Purpose and send forth his Avatar. "Let this Master of Purpose come forth and amplify our wills to synthesize them with his own, giving us power to serve. "Let the Avatar of Synthesis manifest to the group of which I am a part. "That we may prepare the earth for the Lords of Light and Love. "Let Will and Power and Purpose manifest the Christ on earth." I would suggest studying the Avatar of Synthesis either in JJ's archives at www.thenewagesite.com or studying them at DK/AAB's site http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/index.html "The main object of the Hierarchy is so to distribute these constructive, synthesizing energies that the theory of unity may slowly be turned into practice, and the word 'United' may come to have a true significance and meaning. It is with this type of energy that the Avatar of Synthesis is peculiarly allied. He will convey to humanity, with the aid of the Christ, [94] something for which we have as yet no name. It is neither love nor will, as, we understand them. Only a phrase of several words will bring to us something of the meaning. This phrase is 'the principle of directed Purpose.' This principle involves three things: 1.. Understanding - intuitive and spiritually instinctual, but intelligently interpreted - of the Plan, as it can be worked out in the immediate future by the Christ and His disciples. 2.. Focused intention, based upon the above and emphasizing an aspect of the will, hitherto undeveloped in man. 3.. Capacity to direct energy (through understanding and intent) towards a recognized and desired end, overcoming all obstacles and destroying all that stands in its way. This is not the destruction of forms by force such as we have seen imposed upon the world, but a destruction brought about by the greatly strengthened life within the form. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/reappearance/reap1028.html 39953 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:39:14 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Gathering A couple of people have asked me if hotel reservations should be made directly or through me. Please make all hotel reservations through me to get the group prices. Susan Carter susan@patriotsaints.com 435-835-4835 39954 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:45:15 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Re: New Member Welcome to Seth and all the other new members of the last few weeks. We would love to hear how you all found us and if you have had a chance to read The Immortal yet? It is great to get to know new people and find out where you are from etc. (It is a good idea to put OT in the subject line for off topic though. :)) Take care, Susan 39955 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:46:25 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Mindy wrote: The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Then what exists after we depart from this plane of existence, and the etheric body has dissipated? Spirit only? Regards Bryan 39956 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:00:58 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan: Thanks for the reminder...I had forgotten about this completely... ...and was wondering as part of the text is an extracted verse from the GI, are we supposed to insert the rest of the text into the GI, or use the text that you have quoted in it's entirety as a separate "prayer/meditation"? Regards Bryan 39957 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:16:35 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation It is to be used as a separate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocation second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will. Susan PS you are SUPPOSED to follow your soul as always. The above is only a suggestion. :) 39958 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:14:16 -0800 (PST) From: "bryan a. smith" smithgiant@... Subject: OT: By Way Of Explanation Ya'll will have to excuse me, and I've been a bit "distracted" of late which has caused me to kind of "get bumped offline" (as it were). I try my best to "connect" to stuff here at The Keys, and even at theNewAgeSite BBS...and find that it's difficult to do so at any "depth". No, it's not anything "bad", just that I am focusing my attention and/or energy elsewhere at the present moment, and as kind of "being new at this", I still am having difficulty "multitasking" ;-) Cheers Bryan 39959 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:22:36 EST From: jo5hans@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? Joel In the book the "Game of God" has a good explanation of this. When were created as part of God we were all knowing, a reflection of God. We knew what the principles are and we knew how they work and why they work. After a while we kind of got board of this and wanted to learn so we decided to forget. What's the point of being all knowing without learning having experience to show us how, why and what? Being all knowing has its limits because if we were created as all knowing entities the only thing we would not know is how not to be all knowing. Does that make any sense? The basic premise of the book was we are all part of God who decided to separate himself and we are all trying to re-member. I didn't finish it because the author didn't take into consideration any life higher than human and basically said that we are God and nothing is higher than us. If that is true why pray? To answer your question I would have to think that the soul was created with the knowledge and we have to learn it in order to have the soul confirm its validity. Like a trophy for a race you have to win the race in order to get the trophy you have to learn the principle on a certain level first to have your soul confirm it. Joel 39960 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: OT Genetic memory /Eve Thank you, John C. As is always the case, you have given me much food for thought. I came across a documentary by National Geographic. Check it out and share your thoughts. http://69.56.191.157/pressjom.asp I have been pondering over this DNA stuff and had an idea (not crazy). The 12- strand DNA (my opinion) is somehow linked to the 12 disciples, your 12 chakras (including 7 internal, 5 external). When I consider the number "12", a light goes off in my head and I could go on with my "12" theory. Our DNA has been around from the beginning but we're now learning about it. Apparently it has some importance, otherwise, why now? At this stage? All of our answers could be retrieved through our DNA. When I look at the DNA strand, it resembles the Cadeusus staff. Am I just rambling or is there something that I'm missing? John C wrote: I can't give you the official JJ/DK answer except to say that JJ teaches that there is a "permenant atom" left around from each of our previous incarnations and that these are used to construct a "better" body next time around. I also understand that there are atoms for the physical body, the etherial body, the emotional body, the mental body, etc. (Somebody correct me if I am wrong. Please) 39961 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Authorities Hopefully, you're referring to Ghandi. If so, here is a brief handwriting sample. If not, I'll keep looking. http://www.handwriting.org/archives/98mar01.html and http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/handwriting.html Eve Lawrence Kennon lkennon@thenewagesite.com wrote: Ok Glenys, do you know where we can get some copies or extracts from these "Mahatma Letters" for JJ? There has to be some copies online somewhere? Just how many of these were there anyway? We would probably need handwriting samples of other associates of HPB too like Sinnett, don't you think? This sounds like a project! :) 39962 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:14:24 -0000 From: "Jeremy Condick" jpcondick@... Subject: Re: JFK/DK/HPB/healing and life after death Questions? Glenys wrote: Just for the record, HPB's cigarettes were handmade using a very mild tobacco and herbs which probably wasn't has harmful as the tobacco you find today. Having said that, there is no doubt that she was addicted to her cigarettes and they were detrimental to her health. I remember reading about one episode of illness when the doctors didn't expect her to survive because of the extraordinarily high amount of uric acid in her blood. The fact that she did was regarded as somewhat of a miracle and may have been due to an intervention by the Masters she worked with. (Just as an aside, it was JJ mentioning this addiction that made me realise she could not have taken her 4th initiation, so thanks JJ.) In fact, none of the Mahatmas smoke, and the legend about the pipe used by one of them was actually based on a story told in a light vein by H. P. Blavatsky, in which she mentioned the Hindu pipe smoked by Master M., but omitted to explain with what the pipe was filled. The reason was that M. M., coming down from the heights, of course felt the entire burden and pressure of the atmosphere of the valleys; thus for relief He smoked, or inhaled a special preparation of ozone. Hence, the legend about the pipe and smoking. LHRII. AY. Perhaps HPB smoked a similar prep.. However, the fact that she smoked at all has no bearing on the great work she achieved as a Fourth degree Initiate, the Arhat or more truly a Tara the female equivalent in the Agni Yoga teachings was the direct hierarchical link between the Masters and humanity at that time. Her previous incarnation as Cagliostro the Adept so called, yet more accuratly then the Arhat did great harm to Master Moryas ashram. The effect and strenght of his misguided attack, even an arhat can temporarily fall in rare instances, was not of any week willed neophyte or disciple but that of an high initiate. His following life, after being rescued or taken away by the adept St Germain probably for the showing of the error of his way, followed in the instance of HPB, a fourth degree initiate on a mission of reform and enlightenment which was his due to bring to humanity, as stated by Master Morya, Helena Roerich, also a Tara of the fourth degree, and by Master Hilarion and Francia la Due in the teachings of the Temple. She subsequently after that great work, reincarnated and went to the stronghold of the great white brotherhood as a fifth degree master, where incidentally she had been instructed previously as HPB. One can only wonder at the alternative versions of events or disagreements with the teachings and their acceptance. But inevitably one must draw ones own conclusions of course. Jeremy HPB the Hierarchial Link. In lesser degree this comes to all, and to the arhat (or initiate of the fourth degree) this complete isolation is a characteristic feature. He stands midway between life in the three worlds and that in the world of adepts. His vibration does not synchronize, prior to initiation, with the vibrations of either group. Under the law he is alone. But this is only temporary. When the environment satisfies then is the moment of anxiety; it indicates stagnation. TWM. 263. DK. Know that the knower greater is than knowledge; the One who seeks is greater than the sought. CF 850. Extracts from Letters to Helena Roerich Vol I 17 February 1934. It is said by the Great Teacher, "Only Blavatsky knew," and it is our duty to rehabilitate the memory of this great woman martyr. If you only knew all the slanderous literature about Mme Blavatsky, all the betrayals and the perfidy around her, you would be horrified. So much ingratitude, viciousness and ignorance. Of course, all hideousness results from the latter. I often receive information about the reincarnation of H. P. Blavatsky. Several English Theosophists have identified her in a little English girl born in India. Besides this, I myself often receive letters in which people address me as H. P. Blavatsky, and ask permission to come and see me! But I assure you that I am not the incarnation of H. P. Blavatsky. H. P. Blavatsky reincarnated about forty years ago, and in 1924 she safely arrived at the main Stronghold in her physical body. I am very much touched by your reverence toward H. P. Blavatsky. It would be wonderful if you could write an article about this lion-hearted woman. It would be good if someone would lay a first foundation stone in reverence to her memory. Most certainly she was the bearer of the entrusted knowledge. Definitely, of all the Theosophists, only H. P. Blavatsky had the privilege of receiving the Teaching directly from the Great Teachers in one of their Ashrams in Tibet. She was the great spirit who accepted the bitter task of giving to humanity, lost in dead dogma and on its way to atheism, the impulse to study the great sacred Doctrines of the East. Precisely, only through H. P. Blavatsky was it possible to approach the White Brotherhood, as she was the link in the Hierarchic Chain. [At this stage he is an Arhat, and can assimilate the Fires of Space. (He is what is called a "Carrier of Fire"-a high initiate.) FWIII. Master Morya.] But some of those who surrounded her were very much beneath her fiery spirit and heart; yet in their self-conceit they thought of reaching alone the Heights, ignoring the Hierarchical link as well as her merit. In their jealousy, they slandered, criticized and inveighed against her, the one who had given them everything, who trusted them. But all those self-deluded, arrogant people achieved nothing, for the law of Hierarchy is immutable. In the writings of H. P. Blavatsky, and in The Mahatma Letters, you will find the statement that H. P. Blavatsky was the Hierarchical link which, if neglected, would cause complete failure. And now the self-deluded ones who have passed into the Subtle World and are surrounded by their followers are probably even further away from the Stronghold of the White Brotherhood than ever. Whereas, our great compatriot, because of her fiery striving, was incarnated (in Hungary) almost immediately after her death, and now it has been ten years since she arrived in her physical body at the main Stronghold and under the name of Brother X is working for the salvation of humanity. Thus acts Cosmic Justice. H. P. Blavatsky was a great martyr in the real sense of the word. The envy, slander and persecution of the ignorant killed her, and her work remained unfinished. The concluding volume of The Secret Doctrine could not be given. Thus people deprive themselves of the highest. I much revere the great spirit and fiery heart of our country-woman, and I know that in the Russia of the future her name will be fittingly honored. H. P. Blavatsky should truly evoke our national pride. Great martyr for Light and Truth! May Glory always be with her! You ask whether it is possible to trust the writings of Olcott. Indeed, much more than many others. His first works are the best, for by accepting the authority of H. P. Blavatsky he came under the Ray of the Great Teachers. You know about the immutable law of Hierarchy. Only through H. P. Blavatsky was it possible to approach the White Brotherhood. Because of the strong and persistent desire of the co-workers of H. P. Blavatsky to establish a society for the study of esoteric teaching, of all religions and philosophies, with the idea of introducing them to those who were ready, the Mahatma K. H. gave his consent to direct this society. And so, with the assistance of H. P. Blavatsky, Col. H. S. Olcott, W. Q. Judge, and several others, this work was started, and in the course of time it took the form of what is now known as the Theosophical Movement. One can read about the history of this movement in The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnet, and in the volume of Letters of H. P. Blavatsky herself to the same A. P. Sinnett. The Teaching given to the world through H,. P. Blavatsky did its great work, in that it awakened numerous individual souls all over the world, and the Theosophical Societies everywhere were greatly responsible for this. Therefore, it is wrong to say that this experiment was not successful. Of course, if human nature were different, the results could have been much better. Even as it is, this work cannot be said to have failed, and such claims that it did fail definitely came from the dark forces. As it is said, "The steps of consciousness have been firmly built." Of course, in America this movement is connected mostly with the name of H. P. Blavatsky, and it continues to spread and enter life. The Mahatma K. H. made a great effort in establishing the Theosophical Movement, and even became ill from contacting the lower earthly strata and human auras. For a while the Mahatma had to withdraw and reside in one of the completely isolated and inaccessible (for ordinary mortals) "Towers" of the Tibetan Stronghold. Let us also not forget our own H. P. Blavatsky, who was so slandered. She spent three years in one of the Ashrams of Tibet, and then returned to the world with great knowledge and resplendent evidence regarding the Mahatmas. Had there not been so much malice and envy around her, she would have written two more volumes of The Secret Doctrine, in which she would also have included an account of the lives of the Great Teachers. But people preferred to kill her, and her work remained unfinished. Thus history repeats itself, and that is how the karma of humanity is built. And so, do work on the path you have chosen, and the blessing of the Hierarchy of Light will be with you. But please take this advice - continue as wisely as you have started. There is also no doubt that at the due time the Great Brotherhood selects one or two person for the renewal of the human consciousness and for introducing a new degree of the Teaching. This was the case with Blavatsky and, after her death, with Francia la Due, through whom the Master Hilarion gave his Teaching. Unfortunately, Francia la Due died in 1923. She was the founder of the society in California and the editor of the magazine Temple Artisan, in which the Messages were published. But I repeat that, apart from such main recipients who receive the "Ocean of the Teaching," as one of the Great Masters said, there are many others through whom are given individual small messages, and we know quite a number of fine little books, mostly written automatically or, which is rather rare, by dictation. And the beauty of the moral value of such books is not any the less because they are written without the approval of certain authorities! As far as I know, not one of these "authorities" during the whole of his lifetime was illumined by a single book given to them from the Great Source. On the contrary, such books were systematically criticized by them and were condemned and banned. Would it not be quite appropriate to inquire about this? Why do they not give the continuation of "The Book Dzyan"? And the continuation exists. It would also be interesting to know what such blasphemers of the Living Ethics (which they even did not study) think about the society founded by Francia la Due and William Dower and about the books which appeared through them. This society was founded in the nineties of the last century, and has its branches in other countries as well. The great Teaching which was given by them does not contradict the statements of the Living Ethics, and we are on friendly terms-we do not exclude each other! There is the Arcane School in the United States, which has special classes for studying the books of Agni Yoga. The books of Living Ethics are spread throughout many countries and are attracting many new groups. Today, there are many searching souls, but certainly intolerance will not attract anyone. Extracts from Letters to Helena Roerich Vol I 17 February 1934. if you could accept the fact that every phase of the so-called new thought, the later scientific discoveries and results of inventive genius for the good of man, were either the results of advantage taken of the knowledge given out by the command of the Great White Lodge, first through the Initiate H. P. B. (Madame Blavatsky), secondly by W. Q. J. (Wm. Q. judge), and thirdly through the Temple ; or were the perversion of such knowledge by the self-interested to the injury of mankind, you would be better able to appreciate the depth and importance of seemingly simple directions, and the necessity for fully learning the alphabet of occult science, as given in the Temple Teachings, and so guard yourselves against the danger you must ultimately meet when you begin to use the letters of that alphabet to form the words and interpret the same ; in other words, apply the Wisdom and Knowledge you, have gained to the solution of the material problems which will confront you. Temple Artisan Teachings. Master Hilarion. Francia la Due. Our much prized representative, Helena Blavatsky. Ibid. For instance, the harm done to the Ashram of the Master Morya by H.P.B. in his earlier incarnation as Cagliostro, (Cagliostro, W.R.H. Trowbridge) is only now fading out, and its [332] repercussions affected the whole Hierarchy. DINA II. AAB. DK. Let us also not forget Cagliostro, who escaped execution only through the intercession of a mysterious stranger. When the latter appeared before the Pope at Rome the execution was stopped, and later Cagliostro disappeared from his prison. Letters H Roerich I. Cagliostro, Allessandro, Count - A famous Adept, whose real name is claimed (by his enemies) to have been Joseph Balsamo. He was a native of Palermo, and studied under some mysterious foreigner of whom little has been ascertained. His accepted history is too well known to need repetition, and his real history has never been told. His fate was that of every human being who proves that he knows more than do his fellow-creatures; he was "stoned to death" by persecutions, lies, and infamous accusations, and yet he was the friend and adviser of the highest and and mightiest of every land he visited. He was finally tried and sentenced in Rome as a heretic, and was said to have died during his confinement in a State prison. Yet his end was not utterly undeserved, as he had been untrue to his vows in some respects, had fallen from his state of chastity and yielded to ambition and selfishness. (TG) Are our Hindus to be blamed for this? And now Hume and Hodgson have goaded Subba Row to fury by telling him, that as a friend and fellow occultist of Madam B.'s he was suspected by the Government of being also a spy. It is the history of the "Count St. Germain" and Cagliostro told over again. Mahatma KH Letters. Among the commandments of Tsong-Kha-pa there is one that enjoins the Arhats to make an attempt to enlighten the world, including the 'white barbarians,' every century, at a certain specified period of the cycle. * [The Secret Doctrine HPB, V 396 Adyar Edition; III 412, 3rd ed.] 79. It may be asked in what relation Our Teaching stands to the one already given by Us through Blavatsky. Answer that each century, after the manifestation of a detailed exposition, a conclusive culmination is given, which actually moves the world, along the line of humanness. Thus, Our Teaching includes the "Secret Doctrine" of Blavatsky. Master Morya. Fiery World I. Agni Yoga. Let there be no mistake, the movement initiated by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was an integral part of a Hierarchical plan. AAB. AB 172. The teaching of The Masters as put forward by their direct messenger H. P. Blavatsky. KH Letters. I have asked H. P. B. to send you a number of philosophical letters from a Dutch Theosophist at Penang -- one in whom I take an interest: you ask for more work and her -- one is some. They are translations, originals of those portions of Schoppenhauer which are most in affinity with our Arhat doctrines. KH Letters. 39963 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:57:23 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear Bryan, Yes, first comes the etheric body, then we move into the emotional body, called the desire body by some, then we move into the mental body as we rise to finere and finer worlds, each world with its own body. This explanation is rudimentary and possibly not in total agreement with other pohilosophies, but it gives the general idea. Bryan wrote: You speak of continuing in another body not as dense as the physical body. Are you speaking of the etheric body? If so, does this not dissipate after about three days after you die? Or sooner if you choose to be cremated? No, I'm not discounting the importance of the etheric body, and have a fairly good understanding of just how important it is to us...in the here and now. How I access it is another matter that I have yet to explore and understand. Regards Bryan 39964 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:51:23 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear John I thought that you might be interested in reading about the Peruvian Shaman's point of view regarding the soul, and it's source of knowledge. You may find it useful in your research regarding this topic. Actually, I'm presenting their definition of the soul and the Spirit. It comes from a book by Alberto Villoldo titled "Shaman, Healer, Sage". The Shamans of Peru (and possibly throughout South America) believe that we actually have nine chakras, the last two residing outside of the body (above the seventh, or crown chakra). The eighth chakra (named 'wiracocha' which is the name they give to the Great Spirit/Creator; literally means sacred source) resides within our Luminous Energy Field (LEF-all bodies) and hovers above our head like a spinning sun when fully activated. The author believes this is shown as the light surrounding the Christ and the Buddha, and he also refers to it as the fire that descended upon the apostles at Pentecost, when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is our connection with the Great Spirit, the place where God dwells within us. It corresponds to our concept of the Soul, which is personal and finite according to this shamanic tradition. The eighth chakra's source is the ninth chakra, Spirit. The ninth chakra resides outside the LEF and extends throughout the cosmos. It is the heart of the universe, at one with the Creator....some shamans believe that it is the part of us that dwells within the Great Spirit. The ninth chakra is impersonal, infinite and eternal. It is one with all of Creation. The eighth chakra manifests in time. The ninth chakra is present in the timeless now, immanent and transcendent, never dying and never having been born. The author also mentions that both these chakras were acknowledged in Ancient Egypt as Ka (8th) and Khu (9th). Most of the above text is taken directly from the book I mentioned. I have often wondered how this information fits in the 'big picture' of Truth. It has lingered on in my mind since I read it, so I am urged to investigate it further myself. Perhaps our link via the 9th chakra (if it exists) to the One, the Eternal Timeless Now - where all knowledge/Truth resides, is the basis for the confirmations which come to us via the Soul (8th chakra)....maybe that's where the 'interplay' takes place. I'll have to think about this further myself and I thank you and the other members for giving me much 'food for thought' ;) Hope this can be of some service to you in your research and not confusing the issue :) Namaste Khadeejah 39965 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:44:21 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Soul Terminology Here's an email I wrote ages ago that may help define what we mean by 'soul'. Love Glenys The terminology we use when discussing the soul can be imprecise. Even the Tibetan used soul/solar angel terminology loosely at times. Besides ??Solar Angel and ??Angel of the Presence, the Tibetan frequently refers to the Ego, Overshadowing Soul, or Soul on its Own Level. Occasionally he uses other terms, such as: Thinker, Solar Lord, Manasadeva (Sanskrit for "Mind Deva"); Watcher, Sphere of Fire, Lotus; Christ principle, Agnishvatta (a type of fire deva); Son of God; Son of Mind, Manasaputra (literally "Mind-Born Son"); and Lord of the Flame. HPB only mentions ??Solar Angels twice in The Secret Doctrine preferring to use the term Manasaputras. She also refers to Sons of Wisdom;Lords of Persevering Ceaseless Devotion; Brahmaputras (??Sons of Brahma), and Bne-aleim (Hebrew for ??Sons of God) All these terms can mean ??Solar Angel, and all of the terms can be translated roughly as meaning the ??soul. However, ??soul is ambiguous, whereas ??Solar Angel has a definite meaning. The soul means different things to different people. Even the philosophers differ. Plato regarded the soul is the eternal ??real self, the perfect archetype, of which the physical or personality life is but an imperfect shadow. But for Aristotle, the soul emerges from the physical life; the soul is the ephemeral aspect of a human being or other living organism, but it is firmly rooted in physical existence. While at first sight the two theories seem to be in conflict, they are actually complementary, and in their synthesis we can gain greater insight into what we loosely call ??the soul. The Tibetan distinguishes the ??human soul from the Solar Angel. The former, based on the Aristotelian model, reflects the cumulative wisdom of many lifetimes and, in particular, the growing awareness of a higher reality. Starting from almost imperceptible beginnings in primitive man, the human soul emerges from the life of the lower vehicles. As the consciousness expands, the soul begins to form around the mental unit, which is located on the 4th mental subplane (see the charts I posted in the Files section if you need to get a graphic of the different subplanes). When the three lower vehicles are integrated into a functioning personality, under mental control, the human soul acquires definite coherence and permanence. At some stage the human soul begins to recognize the existence of the Solar Angel that watches over it. In contrast with the emerging human soul, the Solar Angel already has the permanence and stability of the Platonic archetype. For millions of years, it has overshadowed our lower nature. The great Solar Angel, who embodies the real man and is his expression on the plane of higher mind, is literally his divine ancestor, the ??Watcher who, through long cycles of incarnation, has poured Himself out in sacrifice in order that man might BE (and BE-come). During countless incarnations, the Solar Angel has served as ??the medium of expression for the Monad or pure spirit, just as is the personality for the Ego on the lower level.(DK) But just as its relationship to man had a beginning so it will also have an end. The end takes place at the 4th initiation which means that the ??human soul is sufficiently advanced to no longer need the Solar Angel as a mediating principle between itself and the monad, between the ??the highest and lowest. The human soul becomes its own meditating principle. The Solar Angels point of attachment to the human individual is called the ??causal body. The causal body is a sheath that contains the astral and physical permanent atoms and the mental unit. It is the lowest vehicle to survive from one incarnation to the next, and through the three permanent atoms serves to preserve a distillation of the experiences from successive incarnations. Prior to physical birth, life flows down from the causal body to the lower mental, astral, and physical planes, energizing the permanent atoms and sweeping the devas of those planes into action to build the new incarnational form. At the end of that incarnation, life is withdrawn from the lower vehicles, and the permanent atoms are enriched by what has been learned. Our stage of development is reflected in the form of the causal body. The causal body resembles a chalice or lotus blossom and, for that reason, is often referred to as the Egoic Lotus. The Tibetan tell us that it is ??a thing of rare beauty, pulsating with life and radiant with all the colours of the rainbow. It has twelve petals, arranged in four concentric tiers of three. The outer tier is referred to as the ??knowledge petals, the next tier, the ??love petals, and the third tier, the ??sacrifice, or ??will petals." The ??central set of three closely folded petals hold the ??Jewel in the Lotus, the gateway, to the consciousness of the Solar Angel. Initially the lotus petals are all closed like a bud. But, as the entity develops, petals open, gradually revealing the life, beauty, and brilliance of the Jewel. The transfer of responsibility from the Solar Angel to the human soul takes place when the individual is on the initiatory path and is completed at the 4th initiation. The causal body has served its purpose and is destroyed and the Solar Angel departs to continue its own higher evolution. With the withdrawal of the Solar Angel, the now-empowered human soul is ??brought into the Presence of that aspect of Himself which is called his ??Father in Heaven ?? the monad. The Tibetan elaborates, ??the solar angel hitherto contacted has withdrawn himself, and the form through which he functioned (the egoic or causal body) has gone, and naught is left but love-wisdom and that dynamic will which is the prime characteristic of Spirit. The lower self has served the purposes of the Ego, and has been discarded; the Ego likewise has served the purposes of the Monad, and is no longer required, and the initiate stands free of both, fully liberated and able to contact the Monad, as earlier he learned to contact the Ego. So to conclude: - when we are talking about our soul we are either talking about the human soul, or more frequently, the soul on its own plane, the Solar Angel. Generally we mean the latter when we use the term ??soul - the Solar Angel is the meditating principle between the human soul and the Father principle or monad - the Solar Angel leaves us at the time of the 4th initiation as it is not longer required to be a meditating principle as we have evolved to the extent that we do not need it to contact the Father (monad) - when the Solar Angel leaves us, the casual body, the vehicle of the soul, is destroyed as there is no longer any need for it 39966 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:38:56 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Dear Susan Thank you for this service - as a relative newcomer, it can be difficult to 'catch up' on all aspects of the teachings that JJ has presented to the Keysters group. I'm still working my way through the AAB/DK volumes ;) I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) I would be grateful for any chance to lend my small effort to that of the Keysters in service to the Hierarchy and the preparations for the return of the Christ. Namaste Khadeejah Susan Carter wrote: JJ gave us an invocation some time back and I would like to repeat it for our newcomers. It is a cool thing to add to your daily meditations and prayers. Be prepared for a different energy then you may have experienced. It is pretty powerful. 39967 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:41:16 -0700 From: "Paula Youmans" paula@... Subject: RE: Re: OT The bible ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) Paula: HAHA, yes it is!! John C said that? I really like this! What has this come to that we now quote each other LOL!!?? Very nice quote ; ) ~Paula 39968 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:50:16 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Ya know sometimes it just simply amazes me...or am just amazed at how "this works". There was a period not to long ago when I spent a week or so, reading everything I could get my hands on as it relates to "the soul"...and I mean everything...and then some. Finally, I got to a point where I (thought) I understood "better", and even remember reading what you just offered more than once, and now I realize that for whatever reason "it" didn't "click" and how there even was "a confusion" that remained in my mind concerning this and other related topics...and what has "clicked" is that it appears that as soon as I am able, I need to go back and visit this (and related subjects) again. BLAST! This also makes me wonder about my understanding of some other things as well. Oh well...and I appreciate everyone here posing the question, and participating in the discussion which helped reveal this "gap" in my understanding. Regards Bryan 39969 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:53:43 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan Carter wrote: It is to be used as a seperate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocatio second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will. Susan PS you are SUPPOSED to follow your soul as always. The above is only a suggestion. :) That's how I do it too, Susan. In the order in which I received them. Song first, GI second and Avatar third. Diane 39970 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:55:09 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I would guess the latter John. We're not told that much except that the souls (solar angels), as their name implies, are citizens of the solar system rather than of any one planet. Their origins lay in the more highly developed Venus scheme, and they came to Earth 18 million years ago in response to an appeal from our Planetary Logos. The Solar Angels 'were in pralaya? when the time came for their reappearance in manifestation' and transfer from Venus to the Earth scheme was possible because of favourable numerical alignments. We are also told that the Solar Angels had perfected manas, or mind, in a previous manvantara but, for karmic reasons, were required to take human form once more. I think one of the difficulties we have when trying to figure out our Solar Angels is that we tend to anthropomorphise them ie ascribe human qualities to them when they are not human. Love Glenys 39971 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:56:40 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Soul Terminology Thank you Glenys...that helped a lot, and all I can say is that what I've learned from my own efforts at least helped me understand what was in this post (grin). Bryan 39972 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:35:57 -0000 From: "R" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, because its *end of debate time*, because you hit a brick wall, so you are now calling the shots as to what I can debate on here and for how long I can talk about it? Untangling yourself from this pretty little web? So now Im weaving a web? Im a spider? What exactly are you implying here John, say what you think dont mince your words within each other like a hidden code. At least you said *pretty.* Im told by you to read the Bible (the Bible is a big long book too), so do I just forget about learning from JJ and Dk, because that does take up all my time lately, and just read the Bible until I can have a satisfactory knowledgeable debate about passages written in that book, when all the information isnt even in there for a start? I bet you managed to study the Bible at Church for years and years, I never had that luxury, and my body, mind, soul is the only Church I need to attend and listen to, to find God within. It IS ALL WITHIN. God is external and internal. It was always up to you whether you chose to read that URL, I didnt force you too and I had no expectations of whether you would read it or not. JohnC: "This is the kind of stuff I am interested in and why I am here to learn. I want to know about knowing and about our fundamental natures and how we can more effectively evolve as individuals and groups. I know some "things" and I want to know how what I know fits into what JJ teaches and what DK teaches. " Ruth: There will be no effectively evolved individuals or groups especially molecular relationships if women are dismissed by men either in a group situation or one on one. There will be no spiritual linking up of minds if down the link someone is suspicious of someone else, and has no faith in other people and fear that there is darkness lurking around them in that group or relationship with another, or is jealous. The molecular relationship is a pure, untainted, faith-filled, unsuspicious and accepting of each other as a worker for and with the Light. That is why Jesus didnt have the perfect molecular relationship with all His Disciples, because of the underlying jealousy about a certain woman, so think about that, while you are thinking about everything else. If Im ruffling your feathers, then think about why Im affecting you that way. I wont go away, and I wont be dismissed. And I certainly am not going to shut up about what I feel and want to write on the Keys. AussieRuth 39973 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:37:10 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Kadijeh Awick wrote: I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) Hi Khadeejah As far as I know JJ has not given us any meditations except the New Jerusalem meditation which isn't really a daily meditation (IMHO). From time to time, I post meditations given to various disciples by the Tibetan. I will try to find them all and put them in a Folder in the Files section over the next dew days. Love Glenys 39974 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:51:39 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women Hey Ruth I don't think John is trying to shut you up or has hit a brick wall or is calling the shots etc. He certainly hasn't called you a spider or even implied it. He is just saying he's had enough of a particular discussion which is his right No one has suggested that women will be excluded from molecular relationships; in fact, the opposite is true. And the molecular relationship that Jesus formed failed because of the Judas factor, not because of 'jealously about a certain woman'. As far as I know, there is no evidence for that contention. I know you feel strongly about the role of women Ruth, and the way they have been treated in the past, but I think maybe you are projecting some of your frustration onto John unfairly. I have never heard John say anything disparaging about women, you, small cuddly animals, indigenous forests and chocolate. So that must mean he's an OK sort of guy, don't ya think? Love Glenys R wrote: "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, 39975 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:37 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Good try Evelyn but he was actually referring to the publication called 'The Mahatma Letters' supposedly dictated by the Masters M and KH to Sinnett, a theosophist. A copy is here: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-hp.htm ('Mahatma' is sometimes used as an alternative to 'Master'). But I'm sure JJ would quite like to add Ghandi to his collection :-) Bryan - thanks for your kind comments. I'm glad my email helped confirm what you already knew through your own process of discovery :-) Love Glenys. Evelyn White-Bey wrote: Hopefully, you're referring to Ghandi. If so, here is a brief handwriting sample. If not, I'll keep looking. http://www.handwriting.org/archives/98mar01.html and http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/handwriting.html Eve 39976 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:29:11 -0500 From: "Keith Harris" theslothis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan wrote..."It is to be used as a separate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocatio second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will." You know Susan I use exactly the same sequence, song, invocation and synthesis prayer. I wonder how many others have followed this sequence without any prompting to do so? Rapter Keith (The Avatar of Synthesis prayer has a very different feel and energy. In fact all three have very different energies. You especially notice the difference when you follow the sequence you mentioned. If you were to say the three prayers separately, I do not know if one would notice the difference in energy as much. But the differences are quite stark.) 39977 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:32:34 -0000 From: "R" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Soul Gospel of Mary Sin is not a matter of wrong acts, but rather has the nature of adultery. It means joining things that do not belong together, specifically the spiritual nature of the Good with material nature. 4 For where the mind is, there is the treasure.' 5 "I said to him, 'Lord, how does a person who sees a vision see it - - with the soul or with the spirit?' 6 "The Savior answered, 'The visionary does not see with the soul or with the spirit, but with the mind which exists between these two- that is [what) sees the vision and that is what . . . )' [missing pages from the Coptic manuscript] Soul, spirit, and mind are the three components of human consciousness. The soul is directed toward what is lower, the spirit toward what is higher. The mind, mediating between the two, allows the soul in the world to perceive a vision of the higher spiritual Reality...... Ruth: I have a vision, and I have had visions, so I relate to what MM is talking about. "The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form." Ruth Why is the Holy Spirit called the name it is? Is it because it is the spirit between God and Jesus/Christ and therefore is Holy but has no form? To Glenys, Its very nice of you to defend John. I was only pointing out that if someone is going to say something like this with underlying connotations attached to it, then I am not going to just sit there, and be spoken to in such a manner. This is something you should understand as well, as I know you do not take insults lying down either. Nobody is going to insinuate that I would ever try and taint Jesus' relationship with MM, and that is something John implied in his email. I also will not be fobbed off by anyone on here, whether it be a man or woman. I certainly dont hate John or even have any bad feelings towards him as another human being. Im just trying to understand why he has to resort to tackling me with such a high-horse attitude. I feel very protective of MaryM and the way she was pushed to the foreground, thats all. Women have been pushed aside down the ages for centuries, but this particular woman is important and was important to Jesus and all the other Disciples. Im very passionate about her role with them, thats all. I know us women are all men clothed in women's bodies (haha) in each incarnation, i.e. we are both male and female entity rolled into one form. I dont have a problem with that. However I will always defend myself against words being put into my mouth which I didnt say. So is it better to have no opinion and let others walk all over me? Or should I say what I feel inside? Is that too egotistical of me to actually have an opinion about something other than what everyone else thinks? The matter is well and truly over, and Ive learnt something from the debate as well. ARuth Dont rely on truth because it left the door open, rely on the faith that you can walk through that open door and close it to the lies. 39978 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:03:05 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Meditations Hi everyone I have put eight meditations in a Folder named 'DK's Meditations' here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ These were meditations given to individual disciples to facilitate the development of a needed quality or qualities. There are two exceptions as follows: - meditation on attracting money for Hierarchy - meditation for the reappearance of the Christ The Tibetan asked all workers to include these two meditations as part of their weekly meditation schedule, on Sundays and Thursdays respectively. The need has not changed since the Tibetan requested disciples to use them (in fact it has grown) so anyone who chose to incorporate them into their meditation practice would be performing a very useful service to the Hierarchy. I will add to the list over time. Love Glenys 39979 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:40:02 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Khadeejah, I think that many times when we ask newcomers to search in the archives for answers to questions they may have, that it is a huge daunting task. Using a search method does indeed make it a bit easier. I also know that the Keysters are grateful for your efforts in service to the Hierarchy as well as here on the list. Diane Kadijeh Awick wrote: Dear Susan Thank you for this service - as a relative newcomer, it can be difficult to 'catch up' on all aspects of the teachings that JJ has presented to the Keysters group. I'm still working my way through the AAB/DK volumes ;) I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) I would be grateful for any chance to lend my small effort to that of the Keysters in service to the Hierarchy and the preparations for the return of the Christ. Namaste Khadeejah 39980 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:52:03 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Hi Glenys! That sounds like a great idea to me, and I'm sure it would be much appreciated by the newcomers. I have managed to save a couple of the meditations that you have posted since I joined the Keysters. Thank you for your work and service :) Namaste Khadeejah Glenys wrote: Hi Khadeejah As far as I know JJ has not given us any meditations except the New Jerusalem meditation which isn't really a daily meditation (IMHO). From time to time, I post meditations given to various disciples by the Tibetan. I will try to find them all and put them in a Folder in the Files section over the next dew days. is to take the utmost trouble to find the right thing to 39981 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:16:56 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT The Self Evolving Circle I thought this was a rather nice description of the process of extending our ring pass not (see here for more on ring pass no: http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=2125) THE SELF-EVOLVING CIRCLE The key to every man is his thought. Sturdy and defying though he look, he has a helm which he obeys, which is the idea after which all his facts are classified. He can only be reformed by showing him a new idea which commands his own. The life of man is a self-evolving circle, which, from a ring imperceptibly small, rushes on all sides outward to new and larger circles, and that without end. The extent to which this generation of circles, wheel without wheel, will go, depends on the force or truth of the individual soul. For, it is the inert effort of each thought having formed itself into a circular wave of circumstance, as, for instance, an empire, rules of an art, a local usage, a religious rite, to heap itself on that ridge, and to solidify, and hem in the life. But if the soul is quick and strong it bursts over that boundary on all sides, and expands another orbit on the great deep, which also runs up into a high wave, with attempt again to stop and to bind. But the heart refuses to be imprisoned; in its first and narrowest pulses, it already tends outward with a vast force, and to immense and innumerable expansions. RALPH WALDO EMERSON Love Glenys 39982 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:43:24 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: The Bible Glad to see the group is keeping busy with exchanging thoughts. I just have time for a short post tonight so I'll comment on Kim's question which basically is: "How can we believe the Bible when it is thousands of years old and been through so many translations?" JJ Most people believe the Bible because they were taught by some authority figure that it is the infallible word of God and to doubt the Bible is like doubting God. Therefore, the safe thing to do is to accept it literally no matter what. The first thing you need to know is that the written word cannot perfectly represent human thought, let alone the mind of God. To understand what a person is saying who is right next to you often requires reading between the lines. To read between the lines in the study of inspired words one must establish a degree of soul contact and read through the eyes of the soul. Without this the seeker may wind up handling snakes of beating his kid with the idea of pleasing God. Any work that has spiritual teachings must be read with judgment through the eyes of the soul if true spiritual food is to be ingested. From this aspect the Bible is like any other book. What makes it unlike most other books is that it has stood the test of time and many of its teachings are as applicable today as they were thousands of years ago. Do not concern yourself with the Bible existing today exactly as it was first written down. Some passages are very close to the original while others have been altered. Only concern yourself with reading it (if so moved) and sensing the response from your inner being. When that response is positive then pay attention and reflect on what you have just received. Sometimes even a bad translation can turn on the light "Suggestions, like propaganda, are boomerangs unless they are accepted by those to whom they are sent. So your world is a gift you have given to yourself." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 39983 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:45:36 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women Thanks, Glenys. This was a fruitless discussion. I make it a point to cut comm lines which are not productive. Glenys wrote: Hey Ruth I don't think John is trying to shut you up or has hit a brick wall or is calling the shots etc. He certainly hasn't called you a spider or even implied it. He is just saying he's had enough of a particular discussion which is his right I have never heard John say anything disparaging about women, you, small cuddly animals, indigenous forests and chocolate. So that must mean he's an OK sort of guy, don't ya think? 39984 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:01:55 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT- Molecular Relationship Question Hi JJ As I thought about Ruth's belief that Jesus' molecular relationship failed because of jealousy, I wondered about the fate of Mrs Judas. I assume she was thrown out of the restructured molecule because of her association with Judas and she wasn't the partner of Judas' replacement who must have had his own partner. Too bad for her if she wasn't part of the dastardly plot and was faithful to the teachings. So if someone doesn't measure up in a MR, does the partner who does have to find a replacement or get thrown out? If it's the former, I assume it would probably be one of the 'floaters' ie people waiting on the sidelines to join a molecule. Tricky if the failed partner and the successful partner are also marriage/romantic partners. You've probably commented on this and I've missed it so if someone knows the answer, please drop me a line. Love Glenys 39985 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:33 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women You're welcome John. But don't you dare let me hear you say anything bad about chocolate or I might have to change my opinion :-) Love Glenys John Crane wrote: Thanks, Glenys. 39986 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:52:44 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women R starryglow2 wrote: "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, because its *end of debate time*, because you hit a brick wall, so you are now calling the shots as to what I can debate on here and for how long I can talk about it? Ruth, I was trying to keep this debate on a mental plane by bringing up facts, ideas, words, and events. While you have been bringing up your personal feelings, accusing me of trying to dismiss or insult you, etc. I see these as attempts to drag me down to an emotional level, which I will not do. This is why I am disengaging. Throughout this debate, I have shown that I have been more than willing to see your side, but you have been unwilling to see my side. My only point in insisting that you read the Bible, or at least the Gospel of John (as I read the Gospel of Mary) and the essay by Ramon K. Jusino, as so that we would have a common base of material to discuss. Without a common base of material to discuss, what's the point of debate. I might have a different view of debate than most people. As we are starting to see the presidential candidates "debate" here in the US, people view debates with the same interest that they view a cock fight. They want to see blood, or they simply want to root for their side. My view of a debate is that when the debate is finished, BOTH sides come away changed, having moved closer to one another in their viewpoints, and having learned from one another. If I am in some kind of debate, and as soon as I see that the disuccsion has no hope of resolution, and after repeated attempts on my part to fix it, and it still remains broken, then I make the decision to disengage. If I had as many prejudices against women as you claim I have, or as prejudices against women as you seem to have against reading a simple 21 short chapters in the Bible, then I wouldn't have even bothered to read this essay. Instead, I spent the better part of Sunday reading that article, researching other gnostic sources and contemplating and praying about what I read, and writing my response. Can you set aside your negative feelings about me for a second and ask yourself: is this truly a person who isn't trying to see your point of view and is biased against women? I have tried to make several points in favor of women in all of my posts, but I guess the point never sank in. Let me make it again. If you have noticed on the Keys, there is a "core" of people who post the most often, and out of that group, most of them are women. I have never taken the time to count, but I would bet that over the years in the archives, JJ has quoted more positive posts from women and have credited more women with coming up with "right answers" to questions than he has with men. It doesn't matter whether the counts are correct or not, it is my perception that women dominate the Keys as far as numbers, in accuracy of "getting it", and in number of acknowledgements from JJ. Does this bother me? No. I recently asked some questions about the soul. I got some excellent replies from Mindy, Glenys, and Kadijah. I have printed them and and plan on reading them today. Does it bother me to learn from a women. No. In fact, if JJ said he was going to take a sabbatical and leave the Keys in the charge of somebody like Glenys, Mindy, Lorraine, Anni, Susan, Judes, etc. I wouldn't leave. I might participate all the more. I have two daughters (and two sons). My one daughter is a "Molly Mormon", do-gooder type. The other is an independent feminist type. I love and respect both of them immensely. They have each succeeded in spite of incredible odds and trials in life which they have had to overcome. Each chose to meet them in their own way. To be quite blunt with you, I think this idea of jealousy among disciples is blown way out of proportion and this idea of men hating women is coloring your perceptions. You need to look at that chip on your shoulder. That's just my opinion, and you can feel free to dismiss it if you want. But, as for me, I'm tired of having my motives called into question, and I'm tried of being provoked into an emotional argument. So, keep up your crusade on the Keys for women's rights. But, you'll need to find another debate partner. 39987 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:24:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: New Member Welcome to the Keys, Seth. 39988 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:55:15 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I think, Bryan, that we are left with the astral form which resides on the astral plane for while until it dissipates. I welcome any other comments. In love and light, Eve Then what exists after we depart from this plane of existence, and the etheric body has dissipated? Spirit only? Regards Bryan 39989 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Authorities LOL! I know Glenys, just wanted to make sure we were all awake. Glenys wrote: Good try Evelyn but he was actually referring to the publication called 'The Mahatma Letters' supposedly dictated by the Masters M and KH to Sinnett, a theosophist. 39990 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:17:23 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John C, Just so you know, I'm working on your question. Also, I felt compelled to send you this quote: "There is nothing the body suffers that the soul may not profit by. George Meredith (1828-1909)" John Crane wrote: Thanks, Bryan, but that doesn't help. Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Does it just "know" it, or did it learn it through past experiernce. 39991 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:01:53 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks to all of you for trying to help me out. Especially the women! (There, I said it again.) :) Evelyn wrote: John C, Just so you know, I'm working on your question. Also, I felt compelled to send you this quote: "There is nothing the body suffers that the soul may not profit by. George Meredith (1828-1909)" 39992 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:51:01 -0700 From: "Paula Youmans" paula@... Subject: RE: JFK/DK/HPB/healing and life after death Questions? Melva Melva Yes Melva cursed words are bad....my Dad cursed all the time then beat the crap out of me so yes cursing is bad and anyone who say a bad word have sin...I have sin too with bad words, but i rarely use them when a lot of people around me use them a lot. Their are people i like who curse like Eastwood, Bruce lee, Patton...but these are more the warrior type good guys....I guess bad words are OK to a limit (well not ok it a sin, but still I like the above people) but not from healers or masters. If JJ cursed a lot I would question his love to serve? I would think less of jesus if he swore because that is not love. The Aquarius book where Jesus as a young person went to a healer and was told their many ways to heal by an herb, by water but love is Queen. JJ said the darkbrothers can heal....this confuse me because a darkbrother is supose to be selfish and healing another person is careing? I am so confused, but would you agree the best healing is from love, faith thur the Christ and soul contact of a high white magicain then a lower black magicain? Jesus in the wilderness was ask to be given wealth by the devil and refused it. Would i want healing from a darkbrother? It depends if he wants my soul in return hehe. This foul mouth healer is not a darkbrother he just a good healer that heals thur a different way then reiki or love...I talk to him a lot. Some people use cuss words and others do not, but words are so arbitrary. I am not sure why cuss words would cause anyone to question a love of serving? The same would apply to a very well spoken bad guy.."He must be good and intelligent because he speaks well!" The key for me is intent. Why would a Dark Brother heal? What's the intent!! Perhaps to get you or others to follow? If someone cusses, so what - what is the intent?! I am sooo saddened to hear of the abuse by your father. To attribute words to actions would be akin to attributing the cover to the book, or "The clothes make the man." If your father recited Shakespeare before performing his horrible actions, would you run from thespians? If Mother Theresa stubbed her toe and dropped the "F" bomb, would she no longer be good and a worker of the light? Everyone has their own path, and everyone is connected...so why would it matter to me if someone gets their heeling energy from Christ, reiki/Chi, or Gaia? what matters to me is intent, intent, intent. Even a jerk can have a good day, and on that good day if he chooses to heal me...I will merely curtsey and say "Thank you my fellow man, and blessings to you!" I mean, look at JFK...what kind of a coward treats his family like that?!?! Yet, on the flip side he did evoke much good... Love is not a blanket and neither is a foul mouth. To err is human, and what is more beautiful then that (albeit bittersweet)? It is what WE do, and OUR intent and understanding that causes us to grow and flourish and rise above. Some of the most giving and selfless people I have known had the mouth of a trucker LOL. and likewise, some of the most mean and wrong doing S.O.B.'s I have ever met spoke most eloquently. What is this more than just clothing and texture? Intent matters. Love, Paula 39993 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:38:42 ??0000 THIS POST IS REPEATED?.. From: "stephenmeaky" stephenmeakin13@... Subject: Re: Purpose Driven Life awokeup wrote: Steve, I want to thank you for taking the time to write back about this book. Its funny how some books you just believe and others you doubt and only sort of believe because you have so many questions about them. That would be me.... i have way to many questions about everything and usually they can't be answered or people just don't know the answer especially when it comes to religion. I don't think i've ever truly felt spirit inside me cause i always think thats just my conscients or thats just the strong feeling i feel. So its very hard for me to feel certain things. I read everything to learn and sometimes i feel things but then it goes away so i know if it goes away its not spirit. Tracey, From my own experience, I have had to come to learn what many of my feelings are and what they mean. Starting out, this is quite difficult and sometimes a frightening thing to do, due to the uncertainty of this spiritual walk. But like learning to walk, the more we do it, the better at it we become until the familiarity of it becomes ever increasingly like a second nature. Not for a moment have I come to perfect this, but I had to face quite a few points of tension in order to be where I am today, no doubt like many others on this list. You say your feelings go away and therefore it cannot be spirit, of which if I may, I would like to say a few things. This in my experience is very much a part of the walk on the path home to God too, whereby our lower perceptions can quite often cloud over that which is spirit. Often we can feel an immense sense of well being or connectedness, of peace and a quiet joy of things or people around us. These feelings can rise within from various places which in themselves can have differing meanings or reasons behind them. It is when we allow our fears or doubts, distractions or selfishness to take centre stage in our lives, that these moments of joy and peace are covered and we become shut off from The Spirit. This is not something to be alarmed about, but is something in which we as individuals can work upon, striving to see these negative experiences as they truly are and then learn to let them go. These in one sense are the obstacles we all have to some degree and of which must be faced and overcome. To hear that you keep reading many different things is wonderful, but unless you learn to focus on the Light within you, all of this reading might only confuse you even more. Sometimes it is wise just to learn to be yourself, and to be content in that for a short period of time. It is in the peace within that so much can be learnt about life and many of its patterns and mysteries. To study and seek is a clear sign that you are on your way home, but filling your mind with an endless stream of questions might actually restrict your learning if you are not coming to understandings about yourself and that which is within you. This life is not just about study and urgently reaching enlightenment at any cost, for that indeed will keep you from reaching your goal. The more we learn to live 'now' the more we will enjoy it when questions arise and they can become exciting and not a muddle of confusion. I would recommend for you to learn what those feelings are by asking your Soul to show you what they mean. In time you will learn to maintain the wonderful ones, and recognise your thoughts or behaviour that covers them. It is 'The Peace that is not of this world' that you should be looking for within yourself. It is there if you allow it to rise in a clear and unconfused state of mind. Perhaps your Soul is leading you to read this Rick Warren book, for it might have 'other' implications to your own walk. Learn to trust those impressions within and gain courage from it. This is the difference between a strong faith and a weak one. The strong in faith have been tried and tested over time, the weak are either young in their walk(untested) or have chosen the path of least resistence. I hope this has not come across as a lecture for you, and I apologise if it has. I hope you find the peace of God within you soon. With heartfelt feelings, Steve. 39994 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:40 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: RE: Re: The bible Dear Aruth.... thank you for guiding me on to the right path! I really WANT to learn,so i'm glad i'm here! Couse i'we allways had and still have this "feeling". I KNOW THERE IS MORE!!! Love and light Kim Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamor, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamor, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) 39995 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:05:31 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: O.T. Solar Angel Dear John, I think JJ will agree that the current earth period is the only one where man has a dense physical body. Ruth W. 39996 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:38:51 -0000 From: "stephenmeaky" stephenmeakin13@... Subject: Re: Purpose Driven Life This post is a duplicate of #39993 39997 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:09:14 -0000 From: "Judes" judesr1@... Subject: OT-Filled wit Love: The Song of 144,000 [OT] The Song of 144,000 Second Stanza * We thank you, Father, that you fill us with your protective fires of Love. * That within this Love is complete protection from all destructive thoughts and feelings. * That the consciousness of Christ is lifted up in us in this Love and wherever we will the Love to be enflamed. How are we filled with Love? Why is Love protective? After we have reached up to unite with the Light in God's Mind then we are lifted up with Divine Love. Only on the Plane of Mind and in unity with Brotherly Love are we able to become encompassed with Love- Wisdom. As long as we abide in the focal point of consciousness on this plane then we are accorded protecton from tumultuous storms of our lower emotions where dwells the veil of glamour. The Tempest is overcome. The Christ (The Master) is seen to be walking towards us atop the churning seas. We meet and abide with him in Peace and Understanding. Love to All: Judes 39998 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:30:32 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: Aliens as guides??-OT Hi all!! I beleave there are "aliens" trying to aid us humans in ways to think,guides more or less.. It's like Whitley Strieber's Secret school... Comments??Anyone want to shed some light on this ??? Love and light from up north.. Kim... 39999 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:23:44 -0000 From: "Judes" judesr1@... Subject: Re: OT: By Way Of Explanation No, it's not anything "bad", just that I am focusing my attention and/or energy elsewhere at the present moment, and as kind of "being new at this", I still am having difficulty "multitasking" ;-) Cheers Bryan Judes: LOL.....but then you get bored if not doing ten things at one time...... 40000Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:07 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Would someone please send the Avatar of Synthesis prayer. Thanks. Ruth W 40001 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:45:07 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: Mrs Judas Hi JJ As I thought about Ruth's belief that Jesus' molecular relationship failed because of jealousy, I wondered about the fate of Mrs Judas. I assume she was thrown out of the restructured molecule because of her association with Judas and she wasn't the partner of Judas' replacement who must have had his own partner. Too bad for her if she wasn't part of the dastardly plot and was faithful to the teachings. So if someone doesn't measure up in a MR, does the partner who does have to find a replacement or get thrown out? If it's the former, I assume it would probably be one of the 'floaters' ie people waiting on the sidelines to join a molecule. Tricky if the failed partner and the successful partner are also marriage/romantic partners. You've probably commented on this and I've missed it so if someone knows the answer, please drop me a line. Love Glenys JJ Mrs. Judas? Has anyone ever thought of her before? Her fate would make an interesting novel. I believe that Judas has a loosely attached working non married partner that stayed with the group. The typical reaction for a dedicated spouse is to follow her mate through good or evil. A fictional book on thios premise would make for interesting reading. I do not have time to write it but this is a good idea for aspiring writers out there. Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 40002 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:15:29 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Mrs Judas J J Dewey wrote: Mrs. Judas? Has anyone ever thought of her before? Her fate would make an interesting novel. I believe that Judas has a loosely attached working