2004 - WEEK 2 39912 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 From: d.linen Subject: OT The Arabic Bible Van Dyke Translation http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/docbible.htm Translated by Smith & Van Dyke in1865 . ???? ??? ?????? 39913 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Keith Harris Subject: And it came to pass... On a Clear Day In ancient Israel, it came to pass that a trader by the name of Abraham Com did take unto himself a young wife by the name of Dot. And Dot Com was a comely woman, broad of shoulder and long of leg. Indeed, she had been called Amazon Dot Com. She said unto Abraham, her husband, "Why doth thou travel far from town to town with thy goods when thou can trade without ever leaving thy tent?" And Abraham did look at her as though she were several saddle bags short of a camel load, but simply said, "How, Dear?" And Dot replied, "I will place drums in all the towns and drums in between to send messages saying what you have for sale and they will reply telling you which hath the best price. And the sale can be made on the drums and delivery made by Uriah's Pony Stable (UPS)." Abraham thought long and decided he would let Dot have her way with the drums. The drums rang out and were an immediate success. Abraham sold all the goods he had at the top price, without ever moving from his tent. But this success did arouse envy. A man named Maccabia did secrete himself inside Abraham's drum and was accused of insider trading. And the young man did take to Dot Com's trading as doth the greedy horsefly take to horse flesh, and, before very long, there were many others and they were called Nomadic Ecclesiastical Rich Dominican Siderites, or NERDS forshort. And lo, the land was so feverish with joy at the new riches and the deafening sound of drums, that no one noticed that the real riches were going to the drum maker, one Brother William of Gates, who bought up every drum company in the land. And indeed did insist on making drums that would work only with Brother Gates' drumheads and drumsticks. Dot did say, "Oh, Abraham, what we have started is being taken over by others." And as Abraham looked out over the Bay of Ezekiel, (or as it came to be known "eBay" ) he said, "we need a name that reflects what we are," and Dot replied, "Young Ambitious Hebrew Owner Operators." "YAHOO", said Abraham. And that is how it all began. It wasn't Al Gore after all. 39914 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Rstarryglow Subject: Re: OT Response to John re MM John: She "wanted to show off herself to the others"?? What is that if not glamour? To continually flaunt one's special relationship in the faces of those who might be jealous of it seems a bit contrary to the idea of a molecular relationship. That would be like Artie hanging all over JJ at a gathering and not letting anybody else near him. I can't even imagine that happening. And if JJ wanted to take somebody aside (even a female Keyster) to talk to them privately, I couldn't picture Artie following along making sure nothing happened, or just to show the other Keysters what she could get away with. I don't know JJ or Artie, but what you have described is a pretty sick relationship. Me: John you have misconstrued my statement. I said MM would not want to seem like she wanted to show off her status to the other Disciples by hanging off or wrapping herself around Jesus while He was walking along. In those days women were *supposed* to be subservient? Were they not? So she probably followed Jesus instead of walking next to Him, which would have been judged as the right thing to do by women in those days. Me even thinking that Jesus and MM had any sort of a sick relationship is just ludicrous too, I cant even believe that you would think such a thing of me? Do I come across as that kind of person? This is what my sentence said, and to my comprehension I was pointing out that MM wasnt going to bathe herself in glory by walking next to Jesus, but was following Him from behind because thats probably what women did in that culture in those times. So please explain to me how you came to the assumption that you thought I was saying she wanted to bathe in glamour of the moment?????"she followed Him from behind because she was not intimidated by Him or wanted to show off herself to the others" I said OR not AND she wanted to show off herself...You have read this passage the wrong way John! And then you try to accuse me of tainting their love relationship! John: It says "the disciple whom Jesus loved", but it does not say "the ONLY disciple whom Jesus loved". Me: Then why havent they named that Disciple by name instead of calling that person Beloved Disciple? All the other Disciples had names. Why single out one particular person, unless she happened to be FEMALE instead of male. Me: Is Peter suggesting here, that the beloved Disciple betrayed Jesus? I dont quite understand this passage at all.....and how was Jesus betrayed? John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also LEANED on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? John: JJ reads the Bible and gives it a fairly high score as far as being truthful, although he rates some parts higher than others. He said that he thought the Aquarian Gospel was more accurate than the New Testament. As he reads the Bible, he applies his line of authority for truth: soul confirmation, common sense, trusted authorities..." Me: Ok then, does it make me any less knowledgeable or less spiritual or less likely to have soul contact because I have not read the Bible? Why arent we researching only the bible then here? Why is AAB and Dk studied here more than the Bible then? Christian people have told me that the Bible is the truth and nothing but the truth. I never believed that ALL the truth was in the Bible, luckily for me, as that is how I came to be here. Why did I stay here in this spot, and not let anyone or anything budge me from this place on the Keysters, even when a lot of my queries are not answered? Deep down I have thought that JJ will write about the answers Ive always searched for? I have stayed here, because over the years the same things I wrote about or thought in my head are the same things JJ talks about, so did I have soul contact or did I just tap into the Universal consciousness with JJ and all the others, and if so, then what is soul contact, if not a tapping into the Universal Consciousness of God, where we can All share that same soul contact. I wish I had the time to read the entire Bible and research it all and look up every single word I dont understand in there, which believe me is most of the words written in that strange way of ancient days, but as I have three children to raise and a day job as well to support them, I dont get a lot of time to just sit and read, except for a few hours a day or late at night. I dont need to justify myself here to you either because I am not well versed in the Bible, and you are. John, a lot of the Bible passages go way over my head, maybe Im just plain too dumb to understand what they were writing about, as I prefer plain English, and I am not as educated as a lot of other people here, however, I do go with what my heart, soul and mind is saying or leading to particular areas towards the Bible or Dks writings etc. So if you truly believe that all of the Bible was written by men, then I accept that as your opinion, Im just pointing out that women can write too and are quite intuitive/instinctive to higher realms also. AussieRuth 39915 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Keith Harris Subject: RE: Re: OT A quote from MM I keep reading MM and thinking why are people quoting Marylin Monroe. Then I begin to think... humm.... if I were Jesus I would have made MM my favorite disciple as well. Rapter Keith (If you have a choice between allowing some sweaty smelly fishermen lay his head on your breast or MM - who would you choose? This is a no brainer and one doesn't have to be a budding disciple/master, or past President of the United States to figure it out. Then I get this mental picture of HPB/JFK and MM in bed together. I don't know - I think I just proved J.J's theory wrong. Writing anaylsis aside the mental picture puts J.J.'s theory to rest.) 39916 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: OT A quote from MM Hi Keith, Thanks so much for the laugh, I needed that! PS to John: Im still trying to work out if Jesus only loves you and has a good relationship with you, if you are a Disciple??????? Does Jesus love us because He loves every human being in the World? As that is unconditional love, a love with no conditions placed around it. OR Does Jesus only love you if you follow the path of Discipleship? Oh, and I remember JJ writing something about the beast controlling and working through a certain book as well, or did I just imagine that too? AussieRuth One day I will read the entire Bible, and one day I will read all of the AAB books, even if it takes me the next 40 years to do it! LOL 39917 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: OT The Lamb "And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel." Ruth: Why didnt Nephi say, "behold that the name of the Beloved Disciple of the Lamb is John, according to the word of the Angel."??????? I wont be convinced until someone can point me to the passage written somewhere in the World that says, "Behold the writer of the Bible was John, Peter and Paul and whomever else was in the writing of this Book." It may seem very trivial to most people, but I think MaryM has been under-estimated in this period of time for too long. There is so little information around about her and parts of her writings are missing, why is that? (Considering she was that close to Jesus!) I agree that there is John the Beloved. I agree that there is MM the one that Jesus had a sexual love affair with or even married. I dont agree that this Bible was exclusively written by the "boys club". What will happen next, that only men can write on the keys list? And only their opinions will count in the future Keys Archives/Books? Beloved = Much loved, very dear (person). Why werent all the Disciples called Beloved Disciples if they were just as *much loved* as Mary? Why wasnt John the Beloved just called John the Beloved Disciple? Jesus had *much love* for Mary, maybe even a little bit more love for her because he was having a sexual relationship with her, and NOT all the MALE Disciples, and that is the difference between Beloved Disciple and John the Beloved. The sexual relationship between the two of them brought their bond even closer together spiritually, (the molecular relationship He had with the boys was via the Mind not the other regions). Although people can point out that sex is just sex, (and yes it can be), but sex between two outstanding figures such as Jesus and Mary, is more than just bodily contact, and seals the bond between the both of them even tighter, or maybe Im just being an imaginative romantic (and not in some sick kind of way either). Mary's love for Jesus is second to none! God would have wanted them to join together sexually to strengthen that earthly bond and love that they had for each other. Maybe I should just shut up LOL! (I can hear ya John!) Dont worry, this is the last thing Im going to say on the matter! AussieRuth 39918 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Kim Jurs Subject: Re: God's greatest gift Hi john! Thank you for taking the time! Heard of the boy in high school who was sooooo in love with this girl, so he asked and asked and prayed and prayed to the lord for her to become his but it never happened? So he grows up and several years later when he and his wife was out one day, he meets his old high school flame, they talk for a bit and then he looks at his wife and thanked the lord that she had become his and he thanked the lord for unanswered prayers. My english isnt all that but do you see what i mean?? Maybe this lad didnt recognize the answer he got, or liked it, what do i know?! But he probably still believes don't you think????? Love and light..Kim John C wrote: I've thought about this statement and I don't agree with it. Using JJ's line of authority for truth detection, this statement does not agree with my soul, doesn't make sense, and doesn't agree with my trusted authorities. Sorry, I can't give you a short snappy answer like the initiate Garth Brooks. Here are a checklist of reasons why God seems not to answer, off the top of my head - (I'm bald, too, but I don't cover it up with a hat.) Maybe you are praying to the wrong God. Maybe you aren't sincere in your request. Maybe you aren't ready to hear the answer. Maybe you weren't listening for the answer, or didn't really expect an answer. Maybe you didn't like or didn't recognize the answer you got. Maybe you asked the wrong question. Maybe instead of just giving you something or telling you something, God wants you to do it for yourself or find it out for yourself. THEN ask. 39919 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: Kim Jurs Subject: The bible Hi everyone!! How can we believe the Bible?? This is a "Book" who have been translated through thousands of years and by thousands of people, at least by hundreds!!! Help me understand!!!!?? love and light, kim 39920 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: R starryglow Subject: Re: The bible Kim wrote: How can we believe the Bible?? This is a "Book" who have been translated through thousands of years and by thousands of people, at least by hundreds!!! Help me understand!!!!?? Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamour, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamour, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceit that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, 39921 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 From: J J Dewey Subject: Authorities It was suggested the other day that we present my analysis of the handwritings of HPB and JFK to expert handwriting analysts to see if they agree with me. The only problem with this is that there are no experts I know of who know how to compare handwritings of two separate lifetimes for a probable match. Most authorities are only authorities in what they have been trained to look for. And even in standard forgery work many experts disagree. There should be little disagreement in this area, however, for the detecting of forgery is close to an exact science. Even so some judgment is still required and there is still some disagreement. I'm sure you have heard of court cases where the experts disagree. I remember a time many years ago that there was a big controversy over some early LDS documents and their authenticity. What was ironical was that the LDS experts interpreted handwriting in their favor and the anti Mormon experts interpreted against the church. I took a look at the two samples and saw immediately that the two samples were written by two different individuals just as the church had maintained. I noticed that the church experts didn't seem to be making a good case, however, so I wrote up my analysis giving various handwriting comparisons similar to what I did on HPB/JFK and sent it to church headquarters. I never heard anything back, but I did notice about a month later that the Church published another defense of their position, this time using some of the comparisons I sent them. I think it must have worked for I never hard of any more attacks along this line from the other side again. It is also interesting that expert analysts have disagreed on whether the handwriting of the Mahatma letters was by H. P. Blavatsky. I'm sure that if I could look at them I could tell in about five minutes. Another area where the experts disagree is in the translation of the ancient Biblical Hebrew and Greek into modern English. These ancient languages seem so complicated to a beginner that many would never dare question a scholar or team of scholars it takes to do a biblical translation. The fact is that many are too intimidated by experts and scholars and if he true be known an average person with a little common sense is as good a judge as the experts if they have the right materials before them to examine. For instance, the orthodox translation of Matthew 24:3 reads "Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" "World" her comes from the Greek AION from which the English Aeon, or eon is derived. This signified a definite period of time with a beginning and an end and is more appropriately translated as "age." Even though this translation should be beyond dispute many of the experts still use the "end of the world" translation. Over the years I have given you many mistranslations from the Bible that readers have been able to check with their own resources and discover that I spoke the truth and many of the experts were in error. The sad fact is this. If you are forging new ground and then call the experts in they will often be less likely to see the truth an will the average guy with the facts in front of him. This is why I painstakingly dissected the two handwritings and placed various elements side by side so you can see and judge for yourself. If you trust your judgment you will be able to be as accurate as many experts. What do I think another handwriting expert may think if he looked at the web page? Some would find it quite fascinating and others would see the minor differences and go by their training based on comparing two samples living in the same time frame and then criticize my conclusions. It doesn't hurt to listen to a true expert, but much more important is to find out some of the details for yourself and get a feel as to how accurate the expert really is. After all, many of the experts who have done Biblical translations have starkly left out entire words and phrases they didn't agree with. An expert may have completed the translation, but the average guy with a little common sense will know that something is wrong when words and phrases that do not conform to a belief system are just left out. I thus designed the analysis in such a way that the reader can look at the comparisons, use his own mind and come to his own judgment on the matter and be an expert in his own right. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and feel as true, the subconscious can and must objectify." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 39922 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:33:55 -0600 (CST) From: Lawrence Kennon lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities JJ: It is also interesting that expert analysts have disagreed on whether the handwriting of the Mahatma letters was by H. P. Blavatsky. I'm sure that if I could look at them I could tell in about five minutes. Ok Glenys, do you know where we can get some copies or extracts from these "Mahatma Letters" for JJ? There has to be some copies online somewhere? Just how many of these were there anyway? We would probably need handwriting samples of other associates of HPB too like Sinnett, don't you think? This sounds like a project! :) lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39923 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:41:13 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities Has anyone ever seen this book, or have a copy? Did Madame Blavatsky Forge the Mahatma Letters 1934 by C. Jinarajadasa http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0766157881/qid=1073911048/sr=1-1/ref=sr11/102-3591075-7072959? v=glance&s=books According to this website the book has "specimens of the script": http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/shearman8.html " Evidence with regard to their phenomenal mode of delivery on many occasions can be studied by anybody who is interested; and there are sufficient reproductions of them, quite apart from the actual manuscripts, to enable anybody to form some opinion as to whether they could be forgeries or pseudographs. The arguments may be studied along with specimens of the scripts in Mr. C. Jinarajadasa' book Did Madame Blavatsky Forge the Mahatma Letters?" lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39924 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:53:09 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities This site may have some useful samples? If I am reading it correctly Figure 2. is "K.H."? http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-spr/hpb-spr1.htm lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39925 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:32 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: RE: Re: The bible Dear Aruth.... thank you for guiding me on to the right path! I really WANT to learn,so i'm glad i'm here! Couse i'we allways had and still have this "feeling". I KNOW THERE IS MORE!!! Love and light Kim Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamor, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamor, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, 39926 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:14:15 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Response to John re MM R: Ok then, does it make me any less knowledgeable or less spiritual or less likely to have soul contact because I have not read the Bible? Why arent we researching only the bible then here? Why is AAB and Dk studied here more than the Bible then? John: Who said or implied that you are less spiritual because you don't read the Bible? In your words, you are "misconstruing" my statement. Let's put it another way. If a person wants to have a discussion on a topic, they should at least have a passing familiarity with the topic under discussion. You asked me to read the MM website with an open mind. It is not fair and just to expect the same of you? The Bible is one authority among many for teaching truth. It has been shown to be a fairly reliable authority. It is not the ONLY authority, but it does confirm many truths found in other sources such as AAB/DK. R: Christian people have told me that the Bible is the truth and nothing but the truth. I never believed that ALL the truth was in the Bible, luckily for me, as that is how I came to be here. John: How fortunate for you. I am not "Christian people". I am me. So, if you are willing listen to another opinion on this matter, I will tell you this as my independent opinion. I don't rely on other people to tell what to think about anything. I have read the Bible for myself and found that it contains truth, but not the whole truth, and it contains things which are not the truth. I also learned the important lesson that it is more important what I think about the Bible or any other book of wisdom than what I am TOLD to think about it. If somebody comes on the Keys and tells me about a great book or passage in DK, I read it for myself and form my *own* opinion. I have made the mistake in the past of deciding not to read something because of the opinions of others. I have found that this close-minded attitude has cost me dearly in terms of soul growth and missed opportunity. Now, I listen to my soul and trust it to direct me to what I need to read. R: Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. John: Excellent idea. We are all tangled in a web of deceipt, but it our job to untangle ourselves. JJ offers many ways for us to do that. I could offer some more. But one common thread that runs through all teachings about getting out of this "trap" is to think for yourself and not simply go on second-hand opinions. R: The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. John: It might also help, just a little, if one *applies* what one has learned. That's the only way one can understand or know the working of true principles. This is, in itself, a true principle. R: Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? John: Willingness to know the truth? Open heart? Then why the aversion to at least taking a look at the record which we are discussing? If you believe so much that MM wrote the fourth gospel, then why don't you at least read of this person you have so much faith in, and that so we can have an informed discussion. R: Im still trying to work out if Jesus only loves you and has a good relationship with you, if you are a Disciple??????? Does Jesus love us because He loves every human being in the World? As that is unconditional love, a love with no conditions placed around it. OR Does Jesus only love you if you follow the path of Discipleship? Oh, and I remember JJ writing something about the beast controlling and working through a certain book as well, or did I just imagine that too? John: I'm not accusing you of imagining anything, if that's what you are implying. Yes, I recall that JJ spoke about the beast working through the Bible. But the Bible was written by a number of masters and initiates, and it is still being taught by a number of masters and initiates, so the Bible can be used to both liberate and enslave. It is up to us to discern right use of truth. Like your quote from JJ, whenever a new revelation comes forth, there is a tendanccy to attack or distort it so at to blunt the impact of truth. Here's a picture from the Bible to illustrate this truth: the woman in the wilderness was about to deliver a baby (the kingdom), and the dragon was waiting to devour the baby as soon as it was born. As far as Jesus loving discisples, you brought up the issue of Jesus loving Mary more than he loved the others, not me. The four gospels, when they speak of the love Jesus has for his disciples, the love he and his father share, and the love which disciples should have for one another, he uses the same Greek word AGAPE (unconditional love). I mentioned this before in an earlier post. R: Is Peter suggesting here, that the beloved Disciple betrayed Jesus? I dont quite understand this passage at all.....and how was Jesus betrayed? John: Read the Bible. I don't have time to explain it. I wonder why we are even having this discussion. Did you read the article you referred me to and asked me to read? I not only read it, I analyzed it in my previous post. This article did a good job of explaining these passages and exploring the issues. Like I said, I learned a lot from this article, R: So if you truly believe that all of the Bible was written by men, then I accept that as your opinion, Im just pointing out that women can write too and are quite intuitive/instinctive to higher realms also. John: Let's stick to the subject of this "debate". I am discussing the authorship of the fourth gospel, not my opinion of whether all the Bible was written by men. I never for once suggested that women couldn't write and that they are not "intuitive/instinctive to higher realms". I have read all of A Course in Miracles, which came through a woman -- Helen Shucman. I have read probably 1/4 of AAB. In each instance, the language is sublime and it speaks to my soul. But, I am not concerned with whether the writing came through a man or a woman. They are just a channel. Nothing more. To my mind this "debate" was about evidence for authorship of the fourth gospel. It appears to me that your bottom line is my opinion of whether I think women are spiritually intuitive and whether they wrote parts of a book you refuse to read. I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. 39927 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:00:55 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: FW: (unknown) Dear Dewey.. Excuse me for asking,becouse this might seem a little late to ask about since you have probably discussed this issue before but i have looked in the archives about aliens and extraterestreal life but couldn't find satisfactory knowledge conserning this topic.. So what we want to know is if some of the aliens described by people like:eks(Whitley Strieber) are what they try to say they are.And that that they are good and try to help us with expantion of the mind to the higher conciounsness. And if they are apart of the brotherhood of light?? And by quoting Whitley Strieber :He once asked them in a close encounter experience "Who or what are you and what is the earth?" And the alien he spoke to answered:"We are rescyclers of souls and the Earth is a school.And the being was one of the so called "greys"... What is your opinion about this! I espessially want an opinion from you JJ.Byt everybody is more than wellcome to send us their opinion.. Love and light Kim & Jan-Hallvard 39928 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:52:58 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: OT - Soul Confirmation A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I know the standard answer: "the soul is a master on its own plane", but I'm looking for more than standard answers. This is something I'm going to research this myself, but if anybody already knows the answer, I would appreciate hearing it. Thanks 39929 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:39:20 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I don't know if I already know the answer, and all I know is the following and whether it answers your question I don't know...know what I mean (grin)... ....if the "the soul" is the point of interaction/interplay between "spirit and matter" (the body in this instance), then would it not get "it's information" from The Solar Angel and/or Angel Of Presence--or Monad (?) ...which (to the best of my knowledge) has the principles of "oneness" at it's/their disposal. (?) ...when previously studying this, what I thought was curious was DK statements to the effect (or how I interpreted them to mean) of how as "the sould is a master on it's own plane", that it is "content" there, and that "we" (in the form of our awareness on this plane) needed to "prode/poke" it" in order to get it's "attention", otherwise, it was "fine" with being as it was. Bryan 39930 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:26:31 -0000 From: "Seth" Newburrs78@... Subject: New Member Hey everyone I just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Seth. I look forward to learning alot from the discussions here. 39931 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:11:41 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks, Bryan, but that doesn't help. Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Does it just "know" it, or did it learn it through past experiernce. I have been finding some wonderful material researching this in AAB, but it's raising more questions than answers. This is the kind of stuff I am interested in and why I am here to learn. I want to know about knowing and about our fundamental natures and how we can more effectively evolve as individuals and groups. I know some "things" and I want to know how what I know fits into what JJ teaches and what DK teaches. Bryan wrote: ....if the "the soul" is the point of interaction/interplay between "spirit and matter" (the body in this instance), then would it not get "it's information" from The Solar Angel and/or Angel Of Presence--or Monad (?) ...which (to the best of my knowledge) has the principles of "oneness" at it's/their disposal. (?) ...when previously studying this, what I thought was curious was DK statements to the effect (or how I interpreted them to mean) of how as "the sould is a master on it's own plane", that it is "content" there, and that "we" (in the form of our awareness on this plane) needed to "prode/poke" it" in order to get it's "attention", otherwise, it was "fine" with being as it was. Bryan 39932 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:38:23 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Hmmm, okay...and why don't you just ask your soul "how it knows"? (big grin). How is it that you believe that the learning process is any different than the learning process that you experience? Are you not part of that learning experience for your soul? ...again, it being the "point of interplay" between spirit and matter? From what I have learned (grin), is that the soul has had many periods of "past learning" from which it would seem to be able to drawn upon...and again, if it is "the point of interplay", "being privy to the spirit", it would seem that it would inherently have the "knowledge of principles" plus the knowledge of experience. I don't see this as any different than the "knowledge and experience" as possessed and/or accumulated by our Solar Angel or our Angel Of Presence as it relates to their "previous existences". I guess that I'm just not at that point in my evolution where I am consciously aware that I am "a dweller in the body", and there are two other "parts" (soul and spirit) "in here" with me as well...and that I need to know "how" my soul "knows", or how my "spirit" knows. At present, it is sufficient for me to "know that it knows" or "they know", and that's it's me that doesn't ;-) Hopefully someone else can better assist you in your quest. Best of luck. Bryan 39933 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:30:22 -0000 From: "thenewagesite" lkennon@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). "Technically, the soul is represented by that point of invisible interplay between spirit and matter which is neither spirit or matter, neither form nor formless. Physically it is represented by that point where land, water and air meet which is neither wet nor dry, the magical point of the soul, the place where white magic of the Christ consciousness is wrought." p://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=1015&idx=1000 lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39934 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:12:57 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation OK, this helps to define terms. JJ goes on in this same post: "Nevertheless, this is an important point to cover periodically because soul contact by aspiring disciples is perhaps the most needed asset for servers as we enter the coming age of peace." "Understanding soul contact is also amplified by the fact that soul is generically applied to the astral body, the Spiritual Triad, the Monad, the Universal Presence etc. I sometimes myself use the word "soul" when referring to the "Higher Self" but even this fits because the Higher self must be contacted through the door of soul or soul contact." So, I suppose the soul would be the place where our physical self has interplay with any of the above. Thanks for the clarification, Larry. I need to go back and rethink a few things, do some more reading, and rephrase my question. Larry wrote: John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). "Technically, the soul is represented by that point of invisible interplay between spirit and matter which is neither spirit or matter, neither form nor formless. Physically it is represented by that point where land, water and air meet which is neither wet nor dry, the magical point of the soul, the place where white magic of the Christ consciousness is wrought." 39935 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:21:37 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I found another post which clears up the difference between the "soul" and the "solar angel": http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=448 "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." This answers one of my questions right here. About whether our Solar Angel lived on a physical planet before. The answer seems to be yes. So, if you called me on the phone, I would say "It's Larry." Somebody might get confused and think I have a phone named Larry, but the phone is just a medium (the soul), not the person (solar angel) on the other end of the line. Thanks for bearing with me. I'll shut up now until I can rethink what it is I am really asking. Larry wrote: wrote: John: Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Would it be helpful to define what you mean by "soul"? Is it a thing, or a place? JJ seems to define it as a place (rather than a thing). 39936 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:26:47 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Lawrence Kennon wrote: This sounds like a project! :) Yes, it does, Larry but not for me! lolol I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Love Glenys 39937 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:45:38 -0600 (CST) From: Lawrence Kennon lkennon@... Subject: Re: Authorities Glenys: I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Cool! I hadn't see that in Rays and Initations (probably cause I never felt moved to look). So to summarize then, according to DK/AAB whom JJ gives a lot of credence to it is clear that HPB flat out forged the vast majority of these letters? :) lk www.theNewAgeSite.com 39938 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:51:23 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Yes. JJ has written about this before eg in Message 1049, Flawed Disciples, ' She [meaning HPB] wrote most of the Mahatma letters herself and arranged to have them mysteriously delivered to A. P. Sinnett who believed and proclaimed them as materialized letters from the Masters....' Love Glenys Lawrence Kennon wrote: Glenys: I'm happy enough with the Tibetan's aside in RI, ' The Master K.H., in one of the few (the very few) paragraphs in The Mahatma Letters which are genuine and not simply the work of H.P.B...............' Cool! I hadn't see that in Rays and Initations (probably cause I never felt moved to look). So to summarize then, according to DK/AAB whom JJ gives a lot of credence to it is clear that HPB flat out forged the vast majority of these letters? :) 39939 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Truth and Light Thank you so much for this information. Will have to purchase the book after reading this. Glenys Lowery wrote: John Crane wrote: Apparently Mary Magdalene was the *Beloved Disciple*(not John the Beloved) and wrote the Fourth(?) Gospel. Im sure you have read these John C? Yes, I ran across this theory the other day on the Internet. This would be an interesting topic for discussion. In John's gospel, women play a bigger role, and the writing displays a more intuitive insight into the motivations of people, IMO. Some people might argue on that basis alone that the gospel was written by a woman - Mary Magdalene. From everything I have read over the years, I would be *most* surprised if the Gospel of John was written by anyone other than John. I think he was in touch with his 'feminine side' and perhaps more open to the feminine perspective and that comes out in His writings. For those who haven't yet come across it, here's the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (or the fragment they've found). Love Glenys 39940 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:09:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: RE HPB/JFK Your quote says iti all, Glenys. "Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." - Walter Lippmann 39941 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). I am happy to be a part of the Keys and will not be going anywhere but right here. Challenges are good as it is a driving force for me. Without challenges, none of us would progress. I may be new to the list but not new to knowledge. May we all continue to grow in light and unconditional love. 39942 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:01:34 EST From: BTrodlier@... Subject: Re: New Member Bil David writes: Seth it is good to have you as part of the Keysters. If you came to my oasis, I would serve you water and dates. 39943 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:25:07 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear Bryan, When you are in your car do you think you are the car? When you are in your body do you think you are that body? Every seven years all the cells in the body are replaced. Do you think you are a different person every seven years? When you speak of your body, you say, "my eye", or "my hand"or "my leg" to identify parts of your body , but this is no different from saying "my steering wheel" or "my headlights", etc. when speaking if your car. Your body is just a vehicle, just like your car. Just like you are the driver of you car, the spirit/soul within you is the driver of your body. When the body dies you continue in another body; not as dense as the physical body, but a body just the same. This is what "out of body" experience is all about. Ruth W 39944 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:46:54 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: O.T. Solar Angel Dear John, You posted this quote in your last message: "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." Nowhere does it say that the Solar Angel had a physical or dense body in the past. My bellief is that it did not. Ruth W. 39945 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:02:14 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing Evelyn White-Bey wrote: JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). I'm sure we can all understand that Evelyn. I generally only take my foot out of my mouth long enough to put the other one in :-) Fortunately, it has been a while since anyone has been attacked on the Keys list and I certainly didn't see your comment to me as an 'attack' as such. Rather I regarded it as an unfortunate choice of words compounded by the fact that I had just written to a timid lurker encouraging them to post to the list and explaining that it was 'safe' environment. And it is in the main. I'm very pleased you're here with us, Evelyn, and delighted that you intend to participate fully in the discussions. Love Glenys 39946 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:11:48 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Truth and Light Well, if you're talking about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, there is nothing to purchase. What I posted was all they've found; just the one fragment. It's online if you do a search. Love Glenys Evelyn White-Bey wrote: Thank you so much for this information. Will have to purchase the book after reading this. 39947 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:27:48 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Yes, I intellectually (mentally) understand these concepts, and did even way before I ever had contact with JJ and his teachings. What I was alluding to was that I have not reached a state of "awareness" where I at any time do not actually "feel" that I am not "fully integrated" with my physical body. No, not that I am not aware that there is "a part of me" that is "separate" and can choose to accept/reject "input" from the body, soul/spirit and experience. But not to a point where I am not "affected by" (or detached from) the input from these "sources". And no, I not stating that this is something I desire or that is to be desired as a "step" in "the knowing" of such things "as my soul" or about it (per JohnC's question). I think I remember a "mantram" from the raja yoga book that I once talked about coming into contact with some 20+ years ago where it gave a suggested mantram something to the effect that, "I am not my body, I am not my emotions, I am not my mind." Funny, I even remember how I reacted the first time I read this--something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, then what am I if I am not these things?" I now can reply with "I am Decision" (or the power of decision). You speak of continuing in another body not as dense as the physical body. Are you speaking of the etheric body? If so, does this not dissipate after about three days after you die? Or sooner if you choose to be cremated? No, I'm not discounting the importance of the etheric body, and have a fairly good understanding of just how important it is to us...in the here and now. How I access it is another matter that I have yet to explore and understand. Regards Bryan 39948 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:47:29 -0600 From: "Mindy" burgem@... Subject: RE: OT - Soul Confirmation From: John Crane A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I know the standard answer: "the soul is a master on its own plane", but I'm looking for more than standard answers. This is something I'm going to research this myself, but if anybody already knows the answer, I would appreciate hearing it. Hi John, Have you by any chance listened to the audio from the first gathering in McCall? Many of your questions might find answers there :) These words (below) should be considered only as unofficial paraphrasing. Maybe one day soon the transcription of the McCall Gathering will be available. Mindy Here are various lines of JJ's explanation given there/then: The soul is basically a doorway between the physical reality and the spirit. The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Soul is that energy of interplay. It's like a doorway so soul contact is that point in between or as it's written esoterically it's the point where land, water and air meet, which is neither wet nor dry. It's that mysterious point that is a doorway between the physical reality and the spiritual reality. The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form. What the spirit can do is to recognize truth. It recognizes it rather than having a mind that holds all the truth, so to speak. . . . spirit has the ability to recognize truth because spirit interplays through soul with matter and it recognizes all things transpiring in all worlds. 39949 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:18:58 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Eternally Progressing Eve, JJ is talking about people joining the list in "full attack mode". Those who have been on the list for awhile knew exactly what he was talking about, and I am sure that he wasn't referring to you. There was "Chris" and "Felix" and many more that others would name. We all have our skeptical moments from time to time. But, nobody here views what you said as an attack. If you stick around for awhile, you'll find out what a real attack is, Evelyn wrote: JJ, Yes, we are all eternally progressing. Thank God for free will! Sometimes things are taken out of context because of our limiting vocabulary. "Attack" is not a good word here, JJ, as that was not the intent (not mine anyway). 39950 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:22:19 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: O.T. Solar Angel Ruthangel wrote: Dear John, You posted this quote in your last message: "Our Solar Angel which communes with us through the soul has lived on other planets so far in the distant past..." Nowhere does it say that the Solar Angel had a physical or dense body in the past. My bellief is that it did not. Ruth W. Ruth, I was simply quoting a post from JJ. That was one of my original questions: did the Solar Angel ever have a body and go through a physical existence like we are doing now? I really don't know one way or the other. That's what I am trying to find out. 39951 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:36:44 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks for the explanation, Mindy. I believe your answer contains the answer to my question, but now I have to study this out and see what it says. A lot to think about. Mindy wrote: The soul is basically a doorway between the physical reality and the spirit. The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Soul is that energy of interplay. The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form. What the spirit can do is to recognize truth. It recognizes it rather than having a mind that holds all the truth, so to speak. . . . spirit has the ability to recognize truth because spirit interplays through soul with matter and it recognizes all things transpiring in all worlds. 39952 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:32:56 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Avatar Invocation JJ gave us an invocation some time back and I would like to repeat it for our newcomers. It is a cool thing to add to your daily meditations and prayers. Be prepared for a different energy then you may have experienced. It is pretty powerful. "From the center where the Will of God is known, let Purpose guide the little wills of men. "Let the One Great Life manifest his Purpose and send forth his Avatar. "Let this Master of Purpose come forth and amplify our wills to synthesize them with his own, giving us power to serve. "Let the Avatar of Synthesis manifest to the group of which I am a part. "That we may prepare the earth for the Lords of Light and Love. "Let Will and Power and Purpose manifest the Christ on earth." I would suggest studying the Avatar of Synthesis either in JJ's archives at www.thenewagesite.com or studying them at DK/AAB's site http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/index.html "The main object of the Hierarchy is so to distribute these constructive, synthesizing energies that the theory of unity may slowly be turned into practice, and the word 'United' may come to have a true significance and meaning. It is with this type of energy that the Avatar of Synthesis is peculiarly allied. He will convey to humanity, with the aid of the Christ, [94] something for which we have as yet no name. It is neither love nor will, as, we understand them. Only a phrase of several words will bring to us something of the meaning. This phrase is 'the principle of directed Purpose.' This principle involves three things: 1.. Understanding - intuitive and spiritually instinctual, but intelligently interpreted - of the Plan, as it can be worked out in the immediate future by the Christ and His disciples. 2.. Focused intention, based upon the above and emphasizing an aspect of the will, hitherto undeveloped in man. 3.. Capacity to direct energy (through understanding and intent) towards a recognized and desired end, overcoming all obstacles and destroying all that stands in its way. This is not the destruction of forms by force such as we have seen imposed upon the world, but a destruction brought about by the greatly strengthened life within the form. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/reappearance/reap1028.html 39953 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:39:14 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Gathering A couple of people have asked me if hotel reservations should be made directly or through me. Please make all hotel reservations through me to get the group prices. Susan Carter susan@patriotsaints.com 435-835-4835 39954 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:45:15 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: OT Re: New Member Welcome to Seth and all the other new members of the last few weeks. We would love to hear how you all found us and if you have had a chance to read The Immortal yet? It is great to get to know new people and find out where you are from etc. (It is a good idea to put OT in the subject line for off topic though. :)) Take care, Susan 39955 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:46:25 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Mindy wrote: The soul doesn't exist where physical reality doesn't exist because the soul is the interplay of spirit and matter. Spirit and matter interplaying produce the soul. Then what exists after we depart from this plane of existence, and the etheric body has dissipated? Spirit only? Regards Bryan 39956 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:00:58 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan: Thanks for the reminder...I had forgotten about this completely... ...and was wondering as part of the text is an extracted verse from the GI, are we supposed to insert the rest of the text into the GI, or use the text that you have quoted in it's entirety as a separate "prayer/meditation"? Regards Bryan 39957 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:16:35 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation It is to be used as a separate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocation second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will. Susan PS you are SUPPOSED to follow your soul as always. The above is only a suggestion. :) 39958 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:14:16 -0800 (PST) From: "bryan a. smith" smithgiant@... Subject: OT: By Way Of Explanation Ya'll will have to excuse me, and I've been a bit "distracted" of late which has caused me to kind of "get bumped offline" (as it were). I try my best to "connect" to stuff here at The Keys, and even at theNewAgeSite BBS...and find that it's difficult to do so at any "depth". No, it's not anything "bad", just that I am focusing my attention and/or energy elsewhere at the present moment, and as kind of "being new at this", I still am having difficulty "multitasking" ;-) Cheers Bryan 39959 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:22:36 EST From: jo5hans@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John A question occurred to me while dodging traffic on the way in to work. If the Soul is able to teach confirm true principles, how does it know whereof it speaks? The soul must be able to confirm true principles because it knows and recognizes true principles. Right? So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? Joel In the book the "Game of God" has a good explanation of this. When were created as part of God we were all knowing, a reflection of God. We knew what the principles are and we knew how they work and why they work. After a while we kind of got board of this and wanted to learn so we decided to forget. What's the point of being all knowing without learning having experience to show us how, why and what? Being all knowing has its limits because if we were created as all knowing entities the only thing we would not know is how not to be all knowing. Does that make any sense? The basic premise of the book was we are all part of God who decided to separate himself and we are all trying to re-member. I didn't finish it because the author didn't take into consideration any life higher than human and basically said that we are God and nothing is higher than us. If that is true why pray? To answer your question I would have to think that the soul was created with the knowledge and we have to learn it in order to have the soul confirm its validity. Like a trophy for a race you have to win the race in order to get the trophy you have to learn the principle on a certain level first to have your soul confirm it. Joel 39960 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: OT Genetic memory /Eve Thank you, John C. As is always the case, you have given me much food for thought. I came across a documentary by National Geographic. Check it out and share your thoughts. http://69.56.191.157/pressjom.asp I have been pondering over this DNA stuff and had an idea (not crazy). The 12- strand DNA (my opinion) is somehow linked to the 12 disciples, your 12 chakras (including 7 internal, 5 external). When I consider the number "12", a light goes off in my head and I could go on with my "12" theory. Our DNA has been around from the beginning but we're now learning about it. Apparently it has some importance, otherwise, why now? At this stage? All of our answers could be retrieved through our DNA. When I look at the DNA strand, it resembles the Cadeusus staff. Am I just rambling or is there something that I'm missing? John C wrote: I can't give you the official JJ/DK answer except to say that JJ teaches that there is a "permenant atom" left around from each of our previous incarnations and that these are used to construct a "better" body next time around. I also understand that there are atoms for the physical body, the etherial body, the emotional body, the mental body, etc. (Somebody correct me if I am wrong. Please) 39961 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Authorities Hopefully, you're referring to Ghandi. If so, here is a brief handwriting sample. If not, I'll keep looking. http://www.handwriting.org/archives/98mar01.html and http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/handwriting.html Eve Lawrence Kennon lkennon@thenewagesite.com wrote: Ok Glenys, do you know where we can get some copies or extracts from these "Mahatma Letters" for JJ? There has to be some copies online somewhere? Just how many of these were there anyway? We would probably need handwriting samples of other associates of HPB too like Sinnett, don't you think? This sounds like a project! :) 39962 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:14:24 -0000 From: "Jeremy Condick" jpcondick@... Subject: Re: JFK/DK/HPB/healing and life after death Questions? Glenys wrote: Just for the record, HPB's cigarettes were handmade using a very mild tobacco and herbs which probably wasn't has harmful as the tobacco you find today. Having said that, there is no doubt that she was addicted to her cigarettes and they were detrimental to her health. I remember reading about one episode of illness when the doctors didn't expect her to survive because of the extraordinarily high amount of uric acid in her blood. The fact that she did was regarded as somewhat of a miracle and may have been due to an intervention by the Masters she worked with. (Just as an aside, it was JJ mentioning this addiction that made me realise she could not have taken her 4th initiation, so thanks JJ.) In fact, none of the Mahatmas smoke, and the legend about the pipe used by one of them was actually based on a story told in a light vein by H. P. Blavatsky, in which she mentioned the Hindu pipe smoked by Master M., but omitted to explain with what the pipe was filled. The reason was that M. M., coming down from the heights, of course felt the entire burden and pressure of the atmosphere of the valleys; thus for relief He smoked, or inhaled a special preparation of ozone. Hence, the legend about the pipe and smoking. LHRII. AY. Perhaps HPB smoked a similar prep.. However, the fact that she smoked at all has no bearing on the great work she achieved as a Fourth degree Initiate, the Arhat or more truly a Tara the female equivalent in the Agni Yoga teachings was the direct hierarchical link between the Masters and humanity at that time. Her previous incarnation as Cagliostro the Adept so called, yet more accuratly then the Arhat did great harm to Master Moryas ashram. The effect and strenght of his misguided attack, even an arhat can temporarily fall in rare instances, was not of any week willed neophyte or disciple but that of an high initiate. His following life, after being rescued or taken away by the adept St Germain probably for the showing of the error of his way, followed in the instance of HPB, a fourth degree initiate on a mission of reform and enlightenment which was his due to bring to humanity, as stated by Master Morya, Helena Roerich, also a Tara of the fourth degree, and by Master Hilarion and Francia la Due in the teachings of the Temple. She subsequently after that great work, reincarnated and went to the stronghold of the great white brotherhood as a fifth degree master, where incidentally she had been instructed previously as HPB. One can only wonder at the alternative versions of events or disagreements with the teachings and their acceptance. But inevitably one must draw ones own conclusions of course. Jeremy HPB the Hierarchial Link. In lesser degree this comes to all, and to the arhat (or initiate of the fourth degree) this complete isolation is a characteristic feature. He stands midway between life in the three worlds and that in the world of adepts. His vibration does not synchronize, prior to initiation, with the vibrations of either group. Under the law he is alone. But this is only temporary. When the environment satisfies then is the moment of anxiety; it indicates stagnation. TWM. 263. DK. Know that the knower greater is than knowledge; the One who seeks is greater than the sought. CF 850. Extracts from Letters to Helena Roerich Vol I 17 February 1934. It is said by the Great Teacher, "Only Blavatsky knew," and it is our duty to rehabilitate the memory of this great woman martyr. If you only knew all the slanderous literature about Mme Blavatsky, all the betrayals and the perfidy around her, you would be horrified. So much ingratitude, viciousness and ignorance. Of course, all hideousness results from the latter. I often receive information about the reincarnation of H. P. Blavatsky. Several English Theosophists have identified her in a little English girl born in India. Besides this, I myself often receive letters in which people address me as H. P. Blavatsky, and ask permission to come and see me! But I assure you that I am not the incarnation of H. P. Blavatsky. H. P. Blavatsky reincarnated about forty years ago, and in 1924 she safely arrived at the main Stronghold in her physical body. I am very much touched by your reverence toward H. P. Blavatsky. It would be wonderful if you could write an article about this lion-hearted woman. It would be good if someone would lay a first foundation stone in reverence to her memory. Most certainly she was the bearer of the entrusted knowledge. Definitely, of all the Theosophists, only H. P. Blavatsky had the privilege of receiving the Teaching directly from the Great Teachers in one of their Ashrams in Tibet. She was the great spirit who accepted the bitter task of giving to humanity, lost in dead dogma and on its way to atheism, the impulse to study the great sacred Doctrines of the East. Precisely, only through H. P. Blavatsky was it possible to approach the White Brotherhood, as she was the link in the Hierarchic Chain. [At this stage he is an Arhat, and can assimilate the Fires of Space. (He is what is called a "Carrier of Fire"-a high initiate.) FWIII. Master Morya.] But some of those who surrounded her were very much beneath her fiery spirit and heart; yet in their self-conceit they thought of reaching alone the Heights, ignoring the Hierarchical link as well as her merit. In their jealousy, they slandered, criticized and inveighed against her, the one who had given them everything, who trusted them. But all those self-deluded, arrogant people achieved nothing, for the law of Hierarchy is immutable. In the writings of H. P. Blavatsky, and in The Mahatma Letters, you will find the statement that H. P. Blavatsky was the Hierarchical link which, if neglected, would cause complete failure. And now the self-deluded ones who have passed into the Subtle World and are surrounded by their followers are probably even further away from the Stronghold of the White Brotherhood than ever. Whereas, our great compatriot, because of her fiery striving, was incarnated (in Hungary) almost immediately after her death, and now it has been ten years since she arrived in her physical body at the main Stronghold and under the name of Brother X is working for the salvation of humanity. Thus acts Cosmic Justice. H. P. Blavatsky was a great martyr in the real sense of the word. The envy, slander and persecution of the ignorant killed her, and her work remained unfinished. The concluding volume of The Secret Doctrine could not be given. Thus people deprive themselves of the highest. I much revere the great spirit and fiery heart of our country-woman, and I know that in the Russia of the future her name will be fittingly honored. H. P. Blavatsky should truly evoke our national pride. Great martyr for Light and Truth! May Glory always be with her! You ask whether it is possible to trust the writings of Olcott. Indeed, much more than many others. His first works are the best, for by accepting the authority of H. P. Blavatsky he came under the Ray of the Great Teachers. You know about the immutable law of Hierarchy. Only through H. P. Blavatsky was it possible to approach the White Brotherhood. Because of the strong and persistent desire of the co-workers of H. P. Blavatsky to establish a society for the study of esoteric teaching, of all religions and philosophies, with the idea of introducing them to those who were ready, the Mahatma K. H. gave his consent to direct this society. And so, with the assistance of H. P. Blavatsky, Col. H. S. Olcott, W. Q. Judge, and several others, this work was started, and in the course of time it took the form of what is now known as the Theosophical Movement. One can read about the history of this movement in The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnet, and in the volume of Letters of H. P. Blavatsky herself to the same A. P. Sinnett. The Teaching given to the world through H,. P. Blavatsky did its great work, in that it awakened numerous individual souls all over the world, and the Theosophical Societies everywhere were greatly responsible for this. Therefore, it is wrong to say that this experiment was not successful. Of course, if human nature were different, the results could have been much better. Even as it is, this work cannot be said to have failed, and such claims that it did fail definitely came from the dark forces. As it is said, "The steps of consciousness have been firmly built." Of course, in America this movement is connected mostly with the name of H. P. Blavatsky, and it continues to spread and enter life. The Mahatma K. H. made a great effort in establishing the Theosophical Movement, and even became ill from contacting the lower earthly strata and human auras. For a while the Mahatma had to withdraw and reside in one of the completely isolated and inaccessible (for ordinary mortals) "Towers" of the Tibetan Stronghold. Let us also not forget our own H. P. Blavatsky, who was so slandered. She spent three years in one of the Ashrams of Tibet, and then returned to the world with great knowledge and resplendent evidence regarding the Mahatmas. Had there not been so much malice and envy around her, she would have written two more volumes of The Secret Doctrine, in which she would also have included an account of the lives of the Great Teachers. But people preferred to kill her, and her work remained unfinished. Thus history repeats itself, and that is how the karma of humanity is built. And so, do work on the path you have chosen, and the blessing of the Hierarchy of Light will be with you. But please take this advice - continue as wisely as you have started. There is also no doubt that at the due time the Great Brotherhood selects one or two person for the renewal of the human consciousness and for introducing a new degree of the Teaching. This was the case with Blavatsky and, after her death, with Francia la Due, through whom the Master Hilarion gave his Teaching. Unfortunately, Francia la Due died in 1923. She was the founder of the society in California and the editor of the magazine Temple Artisan, in which the Messages were published. But I repeat that, apart from such main recipients who receive the "Ocean of the Teaching," as one of the Great Masters said, there are many others through whom are given individual small messages, and we know quite a number of fine little books, mostly written automatically or, which is rather rare, by dictation. And the beauty of the moral value of such books is not any the less because they are written without the approval of certain authorities! As far as I know, not one of these "authorities" during the whole of his lifetime was illumined by a single book given to them from the Great Source. On the contrary, such books were systematically criticized by them and were condemned and banned. Would it not be quite appropriate to inquire about this? Why do they not give the continuation of "The Book Dzyan"? And the continuation exists. It would also be interesting to know what such blasphemers of the Living Ethics (which they even did not study) think about the society founded by Francia la Due and William Dower and about the books which appeared through them. This society was founded in the nineties of the last century, and has its branches in other countries as well. The great Teaching which was given by them does not contradict the statements of the Living Ethics, and we are on friendly terms-we do not exclude each other! There is the Arcane School in the United States, which has special classes for studying the books of Agni Yoga. The books of Living Ethics are spread throughout many countries and are attracting many new groups. Today, there are many searching souls, but certainly intolerance will not attract anyone. Extracts from Letters to Helena Roerich Vol I 17 February 1934. if you could accept the fact that every phase of the so-called new thought, the later scientific discoveries and results of inventive genius for the good of man, were either the results of advantage taken of the knowledge given out by the command of the Great White Lodge, first through the Initiate H. P. B. (Madame Blavatsky), secondly by W. Q. J. (Wm. Q. judge), and thirdly through the Temple ; or were the perversion of such knowledge by the self-interested to the injury of mankind, you would be better able to appreciate the depth and importance of seemingly simple directions, and the necessity for fully learning the alphabet of occult science, as given in the Temple Teachings, and so guard yourselves against the danger you must ultimately meet when you begin to use the letters of that alphabet to form the words and interpret the same ; in other words, apply the Wisdom and Knowledge you, have gained to the solution of the material problems which will confront you. Temple Artisan Teachings. Master Hilarion. Francia la Due. Our much prized representative, Helena Blavatsky. Ibid. For instance, the harm done to the Ashram of the Master Morya by H.P.B. in his earlier incarnation as Cagliostro, (Cagliostro, W.R.H. Trowbridge) is only now fading out, and its [332] repercussions affected the whole Hierarchy. DINA II. AAB. DK. Let us also not forget Cagliostro, who escaped execution only through the intercession of a mysterious stranger. When the latter appeared before the Pope at Rome the execution was stopped, and later Cagliostro disappeared from his prison. Letters H Roerich I. Cagliostro, Allessandro, Count - A famous Adept, whose real name is claimed (by his enemies) to have been Joseph Balsamo. He was a native of Palermo, and studied under some mysterious foreigner of whom little has been ascertained. His accepted history is too well known to need repetition, and his real history has never been told. His fate was that of every human being who proves that he knows more than do his fellow-creatures; he was "stoned to death" by persecutions, lies, and infamous accusations, and yet he was the friend and adviser of the highest and and mightiest of every land he visited. He was finally tried and sentenced in Rome as a heretic, and was said to have died during his confinement in a State prison. Yet his end was not utterly undeserved, as he had been untrue to his vows in some respects, had fallen from his state of chastity and yielded to ambition and selfishness. (TG) Are our Hindus to be blamed for this? And now Hume and Hodgson have goaded Subba Row to fury by telling him, that as a friend and fellow occultist of Madam B.'s he was suspected by the Government of being also a spy. It is the history of the "Count St. Germain" and Cagliostro told over again. Mahatma KH Letters. Among the commandments of Tsong-Kha-pa there is one that enjoins the Arhats to make an attempt to enlighten the world, including the 'white barbarians,' every century, at a certain specified period of the cycle. * [The Secret Doctrine HPB, V 396 Adyar Edition; III 412, 3rd ed.] 79. It may be asked in what relation Our Teaching stands to the one already given by Us through Blavatsky. Answer that each century, after the manifestation of a detailed exposition, a conclusive culmination is given, which actually moves the world, along the line of humanness. Thus, Our Teaching includes the "Secret Doctrine" of Blavatsky. Master Morya. Fiery World I. Agni Yoga. Let there be no mistake, the movement initiated by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was an integral part of a Hierarchical plan. AAB. AB 172. The teaching of The Masters as put forward by their direct messenger H. P. Blavatsky. KH Letters. I have asked H. P. B. to send you a number of philosophical letters from a Dutch Theosophist at Penang -- one in whom I take an interest: you ask for more work and her -- one is some. They are translations, originals of those portions of Schoppenhauer which are most in affinity with our Arhat doctrines. KH Letters. 39963 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:57:23 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear Bryan, Yes, first comes the etheric body, then we move into the emotional body, called the desire body by some, then we move into the mental body as we rise to finere and finer worlds, each world with its own body. This explanation is rudimentary and possibly not in total agreement with other pohilosophies, but it gives the general idea. Bryan wrote: You speak of continuing in another body not as dense as the physical body. Are you speaking of the etheric body? If so, does this not dissipate after about three days after you die? Or sooner if you choose to be cremated? No, I'm not discounting the importance of the etheric body, and have a fairly good understanding of just how important it is to us...in the here and now. How I access it is another matter that I have yet to explore and understand. Regards Bryan 39964 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:51:23 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Dear John I thought that you might be interested in reading about the Peruvian Shaman's point of view regarding the soul, and it's source of knowledge. You may find it useful in your research regarding this topic. Actually, I'm presenting their definition of the soul and the Spirit. It comes from a book by Alberto Villoldo titled "Shaman, Healer, Sage". The Shamans of Peru (and possibly throughout South America) believe that we actually have nine chakras, the last two residing outside of the body (above the seventh, or crown chakra). The eighth chakra (named 'wiracocha' which is the name they give to the Great Spirit/Creator; literally means sacred source) resides within our Luminous Energy Field (LEF-all bodies) and hovers above our head like a spinning sun when fully activated. The author believes this is shown as the light surrounding the Christ and the Buddha, and he also refers to it as the fire that descended upon the apostles at Pentecost, when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is our connection with the Great Spirit, the place where God dwells within us. It corresponds to our concept of the Soul, which is personal and finite according to this shamanic tradition. The eighth chakra's source is the ninth chakra, Spirit. The ninth chakra resides outside the LEF and extends throughout the cosmos. It is the heart of the universe, at one with the Creator....some shamans believe that it is the part of us that dwells within the Great Spirit. The ninth chakra is impersonal, infinite and eternal. It is one with all of Creation. The eighth chakra manifests in time. The ninth chakra is present in the timeless now, immanent and transcendent, never dying and never having been born. The author also mentions that both these chakras were acknowledged in Ancient Egypt as Ka (8th) and Khu (9th). Most of the above text is taken directly from the book I mentioned. I have often wondered how this information fits in the 'big picture' of Truth. It has lingered on in my mind since I read it, so I am urged to investigate it further myself. Perhaps our link via the 9th chakra (if it exists) to the One, the Eternal Timeless Now - where all knowledge/Truth resides, is the basis for the confirmations which come to us via the Soul (8th chakra)....maybe that's where the 'interplay' takes place. I'll have to think about this further myself and I thank you and the other members for giving me much 'food for thought' ;) Hope this can be of some service to you in your research and not confusing the issue :) Namaste Khadeejah 39965 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:44:21 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Soul Terminology Here's an email I wrote ages ago that may help define what we mean by 'soul'. Love Glenys The terminology we use when discussing the soul can be imprecise. Even the Tibetan used soul/solar angel terminology loosely at times. Besides ??Solar Angel and ??Angel of the Presence, the Tibetan frequently refers to the Ego, Overshadowing Soul, or Soul on its Own Level. Occasionally he uses other terms, such as: Thinker, Solar Lord, Manasadeva (Sanskrit for "Mind Deva"); Watcher, Sphere of Fire, Lotus; Christ principle, Agnishvatta (a type of fire deva); Son of God; Son of Mind, Manasaputra (literally "Mind-Born Son"); and Lord of the Flame. HPB only mentions ??Solar Angels twice in The Secret Doctrine preferring to use the term Manasaputras. She also refers to Sons of Wisdom;Lords of Persevering Ceaseless Devotion; Brahmaputras (??Sons of Brahma), and Bne-aleim (Hebrew for ??Sons of God) All these terms can mean ??Solar Angel, and all of the terms can be translated roughly as meaning the ??soul. However, ??soul is ambiguous, whereas ??Solar Angel has a definite meaning. The soul means different things to different people. Even the philosophers differ. Plato regarded the soul is the eternal ??real self, the perfect archetype, of which the physical or personality life is but an imperfect shadow. But for Aristotle, the soul emerges from the physical life; the soul is the ephemeral aspect of a human being or other living organism, but it is firmly rooted in physical existence. While at first sight the two theories seem to be in conflict, they are actually complementary, and in their synthesis we can gain greater insight into what we loosely call ??the soul. The Tibetan distinguishes the ??human soul from the Solar Angel. The former, based on the Aristotelian model, reflects the cumulative wisdom of many lifetimes and, in particular, the growing awareness of a higher reality. Starting from almost imperceptible beginnings in primitive man, the human soul emerges from the life of the lower vehicles. As the consciousness expands, the soul begins to form around the mental unit, which is located on the 4th mental subplane (see the charts I posted in the Files section if you need to get a graphic of the different subplanes). When the three lower vehicles are integrated into a functioning personality, under mental control, the human soul acquires definite coherence and permanence. At some stage the human soul begins to recognize the existence of the Solar Angel that watches over it. In contrast with the emerging human soul, the Solar Angel already has the permanence and stability of the Platonic archetype. For millions of years, it has overshadowed our lower nature. The great Solar Angel, who embodies the real man and is his expression on the plane of higher mind, is literally his divine ancestor, the ??Watcher who, through long cycles of incarnation, has poured Himself out in sacrifice in order that man might BE (and BE-come). During countless incarnations, the Solar Angel has served as ??the medium of expression for the Monad or pure spirit, just as is the personality for the Ego on the lower level.(DK) But just as its relationship to man had a beginning so it will also have an end. The end takes place at the 4th initiation which means that the ??human soul is sufficiently advanced to no longer need the Solar Angel as a mediating principle between itself and the monad, between the ??the highest and lowest. The human soul becomes its own meditating principle. The Solar Angels point of attachment to the human individual is called the ??causal body. The causal body is a sheath that contains the astral and physical permanent atoms and the mental unit. It is the lowest vehicle to survive from one incarnation to the next, and through the three permanent atoms serves to preserve a distillation of the experiences from successive incarnations. Prior to physical birth, life flows down from the causal body to the lower mental, astral, and physical planes, energizing the permanent atoms and sweeping the devas of those planes into action to build the new incarnational form. At the end of that incarnation, life is withdrawn from the lower vehicles, and the permanent atoms are enriched by what has been learned. Our stage of development is reflected in the form of the causal body. The causal body resembles a chalice or lotus blossom and, for that reason, is often referred to as the Egoic Lotus. The Tibetan tell us that it is ??a thing of rare beauty, pulsating with life and radiant with all the colours of the rainbow. It has twelve petals, arranged in four concentric tiers of three. The outer tier is referred to as the ??knowledge petals, the next tier, the ??love petals, and the third tier, the ??sacrifice, or ??will petals." The ??central set of three closely folded petals hold the ??Jewel in the Lotus, the gateway, to the consciousness of the Solar Angel. Initially the lotus petals are all closed like a bud. But, as the entity develops, petals open, gradually revealing the life, beauty, and brilliance of the Jewel. The transfer of responsibility from the Solar Angel to the human soul takes place when the individual is on the initiatory path and is completed at the 4th initiation. The causal body has served its purpose and is destroyed and the Solar Angel departs to continue its own higher evolution. With the withdrawal of the Solar Angel, the now-empowered human soul is ??brought into the Presence of that aspect of Himself which is called his ??Father in Heaven ?? the monad. The Tibetan elaborates, ??the solar angel hitherto contacted has withdrawn himself, and the form through which he functioned (the egoic or causal body) has gone, and naught is left but love-wisdom and that dynamic will which is the prime characteristic of Spirit. The lower self has served the purposes of the Ego, and has been discarded; the Ego likewise has served the purposes of the Monad, and is no longer required, and the initiate stands free of both, fully liberated and able to contact the Monad, as earlier he learned to contact the Ego. So to conclude: - when we are talking about our soul we are either talking about the human soul, or more frequently, the soul on its own plane, the Solar Angel. Generally we mean the latter when we use the term ??soul - the Solar Angel is the meditating principle between the human soul and the Father principle or monad - the Solar Angel leaves us at the time of the 4th initiation as it is not longer required to be a meditating principle as we have evolved to the extent that we do not need it to contact the Father (monad) - when the Solar Angel leaves us, the casual body, the vehicle of the soul, is destroyed as there is no longer any need for it 39966 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:38:56 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Dear Susan Thank you for this service - as a relative newcomer, it can be difficult to 'catch up' on all aspects of the teachings that JJ has presented to the Keysters group. I'm still working my way through the AAB/DK volumes ;) I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) I would be grateful for any chance to lend my small effort to that of the Keysters in service to the Hierarchy and the preparations for the return of the Christ. Namaste Khadeejah Susan Carter wrote: JJ gave us an invocation some time back and I would like to repeat it for our newcomers. It is a cool thing to add to your daily meditations and prayers. Be prepared for a different energy then you may have experienced. It is pretty powerful. 39967 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:41:16 -0700 From: "Paula Youmans" paula@... Subject: RE: Re: OT The bible ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) Paula: HAHA, yes it is!! John C said that? I really like this! What has this come to that we now quote each other LOL!!?? Very nice quote ; ) ~Paula 39968 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:50:16 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Ya know sometimes it just simply amazes me...or am just amazed at how "this works". There was a period not to long ago when I spent a week or so, reading everything I could get my hands on as it relates to "the soul"...and I mean everything...and then some. Finally, I got to a point where I (thought) I understood "better", and even remember reading what you just offered more than once, and now I realize that for whatever reason "it" didn't "click" and how there even was "a confusion" that remained in my mind concerning this and other related topics...and what has "clicked" is that it appears that as soon as I am able, I need to go back and visit this (and related subjects) again. BLAST! This also makes me wonder about my understanding of some other things as well. Oh well...and I appreciate everyone here posing the question, and participating in the discussion which helped reveal this "gap" in my understanding. Regards Bryan 39969 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:53:43 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan Carter wrote: It is to be used as a seperate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocatio second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will. Susan PS you are SUPPOSED to follow your soul as always. The above is only a suggestion. :) That's how I do it too, Susan. In the order in which I received them. Song first, GI second and Avatar third. Diane 39970 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:55:09 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John So, how did the Soul obtain this knowledge? Was it is through direct knowledge of the principles involved (oneness principle) or was it through a remembrance of acquired knowledge gained from its own past lifetimes, or was it something else? I would guess the latter John. We're not told that much except that the souls (solar angels), as their name implies, are citizens of the solar system rather than of any one planet. Their origins lay in the more highly developed Venus scheme, and they came to Earth 18 million years ago in response to an appeal from our Planetary Logos. The Solar Angels 'were in pralaya? when the time came for their reappearance in manifestation' and transfer from Venus to the Earth scheme was possible because of favourable numerical alignments. We are also told that the Solar Angels had perfected manas, or mind, in a previous manvantara but, for karmic reasons, were required to take human form once more. I think one of the difficulties we have when trying to figure out our Solar Angels is that we tend to anthropomorphise them ie ascribe human qualities to them when they are not human. Love Glenys 39971 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:56:40 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Soul Terminology Thank you Glenys...that helped a lot, and all I can say is that what I've learned from my own efforts at least helped me understand what was in this post (grin). Bryan 39972 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:35:57 -0000 From: "R" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, because its *end of debate time*, because you hit a brick wall, so you are now calling the shots as to what I can debate on here and for how long I can talk about it? Untangling yourself from this pretty little web? So now Im weaving a web? Im a spider? What exactly are you implying here John, say what you think dont mince your words within each other like a hidden code. At least you said *pretty.* Im told by you to read the Bible (the Bible is a big long book too), so do I just forget about learning from JJ and Dk, because that does take up all my time lately, and just read the Bible until I can have a satisfactory knowledgeable debate about passages written in that book, when all the information isnt even in there for a start? I bet you managed to study the Bible at Church for years and years, I never had that luxury, and my body, mind, soul is the only Church I need to attend and listen to, to find God within. It IS ALL WITHIN. God is external and internal. It was always up to you whether you chose to read that URL, I didnt force you too and I had no expectations of whether you would read it or not. JohnC: "This is the kind of stuff I am interested in and why I am here to learn. I want to know about knowing and about our fundamental natures and how we can more effectively evolve as individuals and groups. I know some "things" and I want to know how what I know fits into what JJ teaches and what DK teaches. " Ruth: There will be no effectively evolved individuals or groups especially molecular relationships if women are dismissed by men either in a group situation or one on one. There will be no spiritual linking up of minds if down the link someone is suspicious of someone else, and has no faith in other people and fear that there is darkness lurking around them in that group or relationship with another, or is jealous. The molecular relationship is a pure, untainted, faith-filled, unsuspicious and accepting of each other as a worker for and with the Light. That is why Jesus didnt have the perfect molecular relationship with all His Disciples, because of the underlying jealousy about a certain woman, so think about that, while you are thinking about everything else. If Im ruffling your feathers, then think about why Im affecting you that way. I wont go away, and I wont be dismissed. And I certainly am not going to shut up about what I feel and want to write on the Keys. AussieRuth 39973 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:37:10 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Kadijeh Awick wrote: I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) Hi Khadeejah As far as I know JJ has not given us any meditations except the New Jerusalem meditation which isn't really a daily meditation (IMHO). From time to time, I post meditations given to various disciples by the Tibetan. I will try to find them all and put them in a Folder in the Files section over the next dew days. Love Glenys 39974 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:51:39 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women Hey Ruth I don't think John is trying to shut you up or has hit a brick wall or is calling the shots etc. He certainly hasn't called you a spider or even implied it. He is just saying he's had enough of a particular discussion which is his right No one has suggested that women will be excluded from molecular relationships; in fact, the opposite is true. And the molecular relationship that Jesus formed failed because of the Judas factor, not because of 'jealously about a certain woman'. As far as I know, there is no evidence for that contention. I know you feel strongly about the role of women Ruth, and the way they have been treated in the past, but I think maybe you are projecting some of your frustration onto John unfairly. I have never heard John say anything disparaging about women, you, small cuddly animals, indigenous forests and chocolate. So that must mean he's an OK sort of guy, don't ya think? Love Glenys R wrote: "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, 39975 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:37 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Authorities Good try Evelyn but he was actually referring to the publication called 'The Mahatma Letters' supposedly dictated by the Masters M and KH to Sinnett, a theosophist. A copy is here: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-hp.htm ('Mahatma' is sometimes used as an alternative to 'Master'). But I'm sure JJ would quite like to add Ghandi to his collection :-) Bryan - thanks for your kind comments. I'm glad my email helped confirm what you already knew through your own process of discovery :-) Love Glenys. Evelyn White-Bey wrote: Hopefully, you're referring to Ghandi. If so, here is a brief handwriting sample. If not, I'll keep looking. http://www.handwriting.org/archives/98mar01.html and http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/handwriting.html Eve 39976 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:29:11 -0500 From: "Keith Harris" theslothis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Susan wrote..."It is to be used as a separate invocation. I use it as the third, Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocatio second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will." You know Susan I use exactly the same sequence, song, invocation and synthesis prayer. I wonder how many others have followed this sequence without any prompting to do so? Rapter Keith (The Avatar of Synthesis prayer has a very different feel and energy. In fact all three have very different energies. You especially notice the difference when you follow the sequence you mentioned. If you were to say the three prayers separately, I do not know if one would notice the difference in energy as much. But the differences are quite stark.) 39977 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:32:34 -0000 From: "R" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Soul Gospel of Mary Sin is not a matter of wrong acts, but rather has the nature of adultery. It means joining things that do not belong together, specifically the spiritual nature of the Good with material nature. 4 For where the mind is, there is the treasure.' 5 "I said to him, 'Lord, how does a person who sees a vision see it - - with the soul or with the spirit?' 6 "The Savior answered, 'The visionary does not see with the soul or with the spirit, but with the mind which exists between these two- that is [what) sees the vision and that is what . . . )' [missing pages from the Coptic manuscript] Soul, spirit, and mind are the three components of human consciousness. The soul is directed toward what is lower, the spirit toward what is higher. The mind, mediating between the two, allows the soul in the world to perceive a vision of the higher spiritual Reality...... Ruth: I have a vision, and I have had visions, so I relate to what MM is talking about. "The spirit doesn't actually know anything. All knowledge is connected with form but inner consciousness is beyond form." Ruth Why is the Holy Spirit called the name it is? Is it because it is the spirit between God and Jesus/Christ and therefore is Holy but has no form? To Glenys, Its very nice of you to defend John. I was only pointing out that if someone is going to say something like this with underlying connotations attached to it, then I am not going to just sit there, and be spoken to in such a manner. This is something you should understand as well, as I know you do not take insults lying down either. Nobody is going to insinuate that I would ever try and taint Jesus' relationship with MM, and that is something John implied in his email. I also will not be fobbed off by anyone on here, whether it be a man or woman. I certainly dont hate John or even have any bad feelings towards him as another human being. Im just trying to understand why he has to resort to tackling me with such a high-horse attitude. I feel very protective of MaryM and the way she was pushed to the foreground, thats all. Women have been pushed aside down the ages for centuries, but this particular woman is important and was important to Jesus and all the other Disciples. Im very passionate about her role with them, thats all. I know us women are all men clothed in women's bodies (haha) in each incarnation, i.e. we are both male and female entity rolled into one form. I dont have a problem with that. However I will always defend myself against words being put into my mouth which I didnt say. So is it better to have no opinion and let others walk all over me? Or should I say what I feel inside? Is that too egotistical of me to actually have an opinion about something other than what everyone else thinks? The matter is well and truly over, and Ive learnt something from the debate as well. ARuth Dont rely on truth because it left the door open, rely on the faith that you can walk through that open door and close it to the lies. 39978 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:03:05 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Meditations Hi everyone I have put eight meditations in a Folder named 'DK's Meditations' here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ These were meditations given to individual disciples to facilitate the development of a needed quality or qualities. There are two exceptions as follows: - meditation on attracting money for Hierarchy - meditation for the reappearance of the Christ The Tibetan asked all workers to include these two meditations as part of their weekly meditation schedule, on Sundays and Thursdays respectively. The need has not changed since the Tibetan requested disciples to use them (in fact it has grown) so anyone who chose to incorporate them into their meditation practice would be performing a very useful service to the Hierarchy. I will add to the list over time. Love Glenys 39979 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:40:02 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Khadeejah, I think that many times when we ask newcomers to search in the archives for answers to questions they may have, that it is a huge daunting task. Using a search method does indeed make it a bit easier. I also know that the Keysters are grateful for your efforts in service to the Hierarchy as well as here on the list. Diane Kadijeh Awick wrote: Dear Susan Thank you for this service - as a relative newcomer, it can be difficult to 'catch up' on all aspects of the teachings that JJ has presented to the Keysters group. I'm still working my way through the AAB/DK volumes ;) I would be happy to receive further direction from the group with regards to daily meditations or prayers that JJ has taught in the past ie point me in the direction of the archive or the keyword for the search :) I would be grateful for any chance to lend my small effort to that of the Keysters in service to the Hierarchy and the preparations for the return of the Christ. Namaste Khadeejah 39980 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:52:03 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Hi Glenys! That sounds like a great idea to me, and I'm sure it would be much appreciated by the newcomers. I have managed to save a couple of the meditations that you have posted since I joined the Keysters. Thank you for your work and service :) Namaste Khadeejah Glenys wrote: Hi Khadeejah As far as I know JJ has not given us any meditations except the New Jerusalem meditation which isn't really a daily meditation (IMHO). From time to time, I post meditations given to various disciples by the Tibetan. I will try to find them all and put them in a Folder in the Files section over the next dew days. is to take the utmost trouble to find the right thing to 39981 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:16:56 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT The Self Evolving Circle I thought this was a rather nice description of the process of extending our ring pass not (see here for more on ring pass no: http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/article.php?num=2125) THE SELF-EVOLVING CIRCLE The key to every man is his thought. Sturdy and defying though he look, he has a helm which he obeys, which is the idea after which all his facts are classified. He can only be reformed by showing him a new idea which commands his own. The life of man is a self-evolving circle, which, from a ring imperceptibly small, rushes on all sides outward to new and larger circles, and that without end. The extent to which this generation of circles, wheel without wheel, will go, depends on the force or truth of the individual soul. For, it is the inert effort of each thought having formed itself into a circular wave of circumstance, as, for instance, an empire, rules of an art, a local usage, a religious rite, to heap itself on that ridge, and to solidify, and hem in the life. But if the soul is quick and strong it bursts over that boundary on all sides, and expands another orbit on the great deep, which also runs up into a high wave, with attempt again to stop and to bind. But the heart refuses to be imprisoned; in its first and narrowest pulses, it already tends outward with a vast force, and to immense and innumerable expansions. RALPH WALDO EMERSON Love Glenys 39982 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:43:24 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: The Bible Glad to see the group is keeping busy with exchanging thoughts. I just have time for a short post tonight so I'll comment on Kim's question which basically is: "How can we believe the Bible when it is thousands of years old and been through so many translations?" JJ Most people believe the Bible because they were taught by some authority figure that it is the infallible word of God and to doubt the Bible is like doubting God. Therefore, the safe thing to do is to accept it literally no matter what. The first thing you need to know is that the written word cannot perfectly represent human thought, let alone the mind of God. To understand what a person is saying who is right next to you often requires reading between the lines. To read between the lines in the study of inspired words one must establish a degree of soul contact and read through the eyes of the soul. Without this the seeker may wind up handling snakes of beating his kid with the idea of pleasing God. Any work that has spiritual teachings must be read with judgment through the eyes of the soul if true spiritual food is to be ingested. From this aspect the Bible is like any other book. What makes it unlike most other books is that it has stood the test of time and many of its teachings are as applicable today as they were thousands of years ago. Do not concern yourself with the Bible existing today exactly as it was first written down. Some passages are very close to the original while others have been altered. Only concern yourself with reading it (if so moved) and sensing the response from your inner being. When that response is positive then pay attention and reflect on what you have just received. Sometimes even a bad translation can turn on the light "Suggestions, like propaganda, are boomerangs unless they are accepted by those to whom they are sent. So your world is a gift you have given to yourself." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 39983 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:45:36 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women Thanks, Glenys. This was a fruitless discussion. I make it a point to cut comm lines which are not productive. Glenys wrote: Hey Ruth I don't think John is trying to shut you up or has hit a brick wall or is calling the shots etc. He certainly hasn't called you a spider or even implied it. He is just saying he's had enough of a particular discussion which is his right I have never heard John say anything disparaging about women, you, small cuddly animals, indigenous forests and chocolate. So that must mean he's an OK sort of guy, don't ya think? 39984 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:01:55 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT- Molecular Relationship Question Hi JJ As I thought about Ruth's belief that Jesus' molecular relationship failed because of jealousy, I wondered about the fate of Mrs Judas. I assume she was thrown out of the restructured molecule because of her association with Judas and she wasn't the partner of Judas' replacement who must have had his own partner. Too bad for her if she wasn't part of the dastardly plot and was faithful to the teachings. So if someone doesn't measure up in a MR, does the partner who does have to find a replacement or get thrown out? If it's the former, I assume it would probably be one of the 'floaters' ie people waiting on the sidelines to join a molecule. Tricky if the failed partner and the successful partner are also marriage/romantic partners. You've probably commented on this and I've missed it so if someone knows the answer, please drop me a line. Love Glenys 39985 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:33 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women You're welcome John. But don't you dare let me hear you say anything bad about chocolate or I might have to change my opinion :-) Love Glenys John Crane wrote: Thanks, Glenys. 39986 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:52:44 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationships/Soul Contact/Women R starryglow2 wrote: "I'm untangling myself from this pretty little web right now. End of debate. " JohnC Ruth: So John, am I being dismissed now, because its *end of debate time*, because you hit a brick wall, so you are now calling the shots as to what I can debate on here and for how long I can talk about it? Ruth, I was trying to keep this debate on a mental plane by bringing up facts, ideas, words, and events. While you have been bringing up your personal feelings, accusing me of trying to dismiss or insult you, etc. I see these as attempts to drag me down to an emotional level, which I will not do. This is why I am disengaging. Throughout this debate, I have shown that I have been more than willing to see your side, but you have been unwilling to see my side. My only point in insisting that you read the Bible, or at least the Gospel of John (as I read the Gospel of Mary) and the essay by Ramon K. Jusino, as so that we would have a common base of material to discuss. Without a common base of material to discuss, what's the point of debate. I might have a different view of debate than most people. As we are starting to see the presidential candidates "debate" here in the US, people view debates with the same interest that they view a cock fight. They want to see blood, or they simply want to root for their side. My view of a debate is that when the debate is finished, BOTH sides come away changed, having moved closer to one another in their viewpoints, and having learned from one another. If I am in some kind of debate, and as soon as I see that the disuccsion has no hope of resolution, and after repeated attempts on my part to fix it, and it still remains broken, then I make the decision to disengage. If I had as many prejudices against women as you claim I have, or as prejudices against women as you seem to have against reading a simple 21 short chapters in the Bible, then I wouldn't have even bothered to read this essay. Instead, I spent the better part of Sunday reading that article, researching other gnostic sources and contemplating and praying about what I read, and writing my response. Can you set aside your negative feelings about me for a second and ask yourself: is this truly a person who isn't trying to see your point of view and is biased against women? I have tried to make several points in favor of women in all of my posts, but I guess the point never sank in. Let me make it again. If you have noticed on the Keys, there is a "core" of people who post the most often, and out of that group, most of them are women. I have never taken the time to count, but I would bet that over the years in the archives, JJ has quoted more positive posts from women and have credited more women with coming up with "right answers" to questions than he has with men. It doesn't matter whether the counts are correct or not, it is my perception that women dominate the Keys as far as numbers, in accuracy of "getting it", and in number of acknowledgements from JJ. Does this bother me? No. I recently asked some questions about the soul. I got some excellent replies from Mindy, Glenys, and Kadijah. I have printed them and and plan on reading them today. Does it bother me to learn from a women. No. In fact, if JJ said he was going to take a sabbatical and leave the Keys in the charge of somebody like Glenys, Mindy, Lorraine, Anni, Susan, Judes, etc. I wouldn't leave. I might participate all the more. I have two daughters (and two sons). My one daughter is a "Molly Mormon", do-gooder type. The other is an independent feminist type. I love and respect both of them immensely. They have each succeeded in spite of incredible odds and trials in life which they have had to overcome. Each chose to meet them in their own way. To be quite blunt with you, I think this idea of jealousy among disciples is blown way out of proportion and this idea of men hating women is coloring your perceptions. You need to look at that chip on your shoulder. That's just my opinion, and you can feel free to dismiss it if you want. But, as for me, I'm tired of having my motives called into question, and I'm tried of being provoked into an emotional argument. So, keep up your crusade on the Keys for women's rights. But, you'll need to find another debate partner. 39987 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:24:59 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: New Member Welcome to the Keys, Seth. 39988 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:55:15 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation I think, Bryan, that we are left with the astral form which resides on the astral plane for while until it dissipates. I welcome any other comments. In love and light, Eve Then what exists after we depart from this plane of existence, and the etheric body has dissipated? Spirit only? Regards Bryan 39989 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Authorities LOL! I know Glenys, just wanted to make sure we were all awake. Glenys wrote: Good try Evelyn but he was actually referring to the publication called 'The Mahatma Letters' supposedly dictated by the Masters M and KH to Sinnett, a theosophist. 39990 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:17:23 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John C, Just so you know, I'm working on your question. Also, I felt compelled to send you this quote: "There is nothing the body suffers that the soul may not profit by. George Meredith (1828-1909)" John Crane wrote: Thanks, Bryan, but that doesn't help. Where does the soul get its knowledge of principles from? Does it just "know" it, or did it learn it through past experiernce. 39991 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:01:53 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Thanks to all of you for trying to help me out. Especially the women! (There, I said it again.) :) Evelyn wrote: John C, Just so you know, I'm working on your question. Also, I felt compelled to send you this quote: "There is nothing the body suffers that the soul may not profit by. George Meredith (1828-1909)" 39992 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:51:01 -0700 From: "Paula Youmans" paula@... Subject: RE: JFK/DK/HPB/healing and life after death Questions? Melva Melva Yes Melva cursed words are bad....my Dad cursed all the time then beat the crap out of me so yes cursing is bad and anyone who say a bad word have sin...I have sin too with bad words, but i rarely use them when a lot of people around me use them a lot. Their are people i like who curse like Eastwood, Bruce lee, Patton...but these are more the warrior type good guys....I guess bad words are OK to a limit (well not ok it a sin, but still I like the above people) but not from healers or masters. If JJ cursed a lot I would question his love to serve? I would think less of jesus if he swore because that is not love. The Aquarius book where Jesus as a young person went to a healer and was told their many ways to heal by an herb, by water but love is Queen. JJ said the darkbrothers can heal....this confuse me because a darkbrother is supose to be selfish and healing another person is careing? I am so confused, but would you agree the best healing is from love, faith thur the Christ and soul contact of a high white magicain then a lower black magicain? Jesus in the wilderness was ask to be given wealth by the devil and refused it. Would i want healing from a darkbrother? It depends if he wants my soul in return hehe. This foul mouth healer is not a darkbrother he just a good healer that heals thur a different way then reiki or love...I talk to him a lot. Some people use cuss words and others do not, but words are so arbitrary. I am not sure why cuss words would cause anyone to question a love of serving? The same would apply to a very well spoken bad guy.."He must be good and intelligent because he speaks well!" The key for me is intent. Why would a Dark Brother heal? What's the intent!! Perhaps to get you or others to follow? If someone cusses, so what - what is the intent?! I am sooo saddened to hear of the abuse by your father. To attribute words to actions would be akin to attributing the cover to the book, or "The clothes make the man." If your father recited Shakespeare before performing his horrible actions, would you run from thespians? If Mother Theresa stubbed her toe and dropped the "F" bomb, would she no longer be good and a worker of the light? Everyone has their own path, and everyone is connected...so why would it matter to me if someone gets their heeling energy from Christ, reiki/Chi, or Gaia? what matters to me is intent, intent, intent. Even a jerk can have a good day, and on that good day if he chooses to heal me...I will merely curtsey and say "Thank you my fellow man, and blessings to you!" I mean, look at JFK...what kind of a coward treats his family like that?!?! Yet, on the flip side he did evoke much good... Love is not a blanket and neither is a foul mouth. To err is human, and what is more beautiful then that (albeit bittersweet)? It is what WE do, and OUR intent and understanding that causes us to grow and flourish and rise above. Some of the most giving and selfless people I have known had the mouth of a trucker LOL. and likewise, some of the most mean and wrong doing S.O.B.'s I have ever met spoke most eloquently. What is this more than just clothing and texture? Intent matters. Love, Paula 39993 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:38:42 ??0000 THIS POST IS REPEATED?.. From: "stephenmeaky" stephenmeakin13@... Subject: Re: Purpose Driven Life awokeup wrote: Steve, I want to thank you for taking the time to write back about this book. Its funny how some books you just believe and others you doubt and only sort of believe because you have so many questions about them. That would be me.... i have way to many questions about everything and usually they can't be answered or people just don't know the answer especially when it comes to religion. I don't think i've ever truly felt spirit inside me cause i always think thats just my conscients or thats just the strong feeling i feel. So its very hard for me to feel certain things. I read everything to learn and sometimes i feel things but then it goes away so i know if it goes away its not spirit. Tracey, From my own experience, I have had to come to learn what many of my feelings are and what they mean. Starting out, this is quite difficult and sometimes a frightening thing to do, due to the uncertainty of this spiritual walk. But like learning to walk, the more we do it, the better at it we become until the familiarity of it becomes ever increasingly like a second nature. Not for a moment have I come to perfect this, but I had to face quite a few points of tension in order to be where I am today, no doubt like many others on this list. You say your feelings go away and therefore it cannot be spirit, of which if I may, I would like to say a few things. This in my experience is very much a part of the walk on the path home to God too, whereby our lower perceptions can quite often cloud over that which is spirit. Often we can feel an immense sense of well being or connectedness, of peace and a quiet joy of things or people around us. These feelings can rise within from various places which in themselves can have differing meanings or reasons behind them. It is when we allow our fears or doubts, distractions or selfishness to take centre stage in our lives, that these moments of joy and peace are covered and we become shut off from The Spirit. This is not something to be alarmed about, but is something in which we as individuals can work upon, striving to see these negative experiences as they truly are and then learn to let them go. These in one sense are the obstacles we all have to some degree and of which must be faced and overcome. To hear that you keep reading many different things is wonderful, but unless you learn to focus on the Light within you, all of this reading might only confuse you even more. Sometimes it is wise just to learn to be yourself, and to be content in that for a short period of time. It is in the peace within that so much can be learnt about life and many of its patterns and mysteries. To study and seek is a clear sign that you are on your way home, but filling your mind with an endless stream of questions might actually restrict your learning if you are not coming to understandings about yourself and that which is within you. This life is not just about study and urgently reaching enlightenment at any cost, for that indeed will keep you from reaching your goal. The more we learn to live 'now' the more we will enjoy it when questions arise and they can become exciting and not a muddle of confusion. I would recommend for you to learn what those feelings are by asking your Soul to show you what they mean. In time you will learn to maintain the wonderful ones, and recognise your thoughts or behaviour that covers them. It is 'The Peace that is not of this world' that you should be looking for within yourself. It is there if you allow it to rise in a clear and unconfused state of mind. Perhaps your Soul is leading you to read this Rick Warren book, for it might have 'other' implications to your own walk. Learn to trust those impressions within and gain courage from it. This is the difference between a strong faith and a weak one. The strong in faith have been tried and tested over time, the weak are either young in their walk(untested) or have chosen the path of least resistence. I hope this has not come across as a lecture for you, and I apologise if it has. I hope you find the peace of God within you soon. With heartfelt feelings, Steve. 39994 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:40 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: RE: Re: The bible Dear Aruth.... thank you for guiding me on to the right path! I really WANT to learn,so i'm glad i'm here! Couse i'we allways had and still have this "feeling". I KNOW THERE IS MORE!!! Love and light Kim Hi Kim, We can believe anything we want to believe. The point of belief is to know or understand the workings of the true principles. So its an inner knowing of our true self that we have to read and believe in, not read thousands of books and hope for the best. Like JJ has said, we can read any sort of book and it can contain some truths inside of it as well as untruths. We have to make contact with our higher mind(soul), although we have to by-pass ego, personality, glamor, astral thoughts, imagination etc first. How do we by-pass all these inner traits of the bodily vehicle? Faith, trust, innocence, open heart, willingness to know the truth, knowledge of how our higher self works? Im still on this path, and maybe Im surrounded by glamor, ego, personality, astral thoughts as well as the next man/woman. Who knows??? Im just trying to untangle this web of deceipt that has been wrapped around me since my soul decided to come down to the School of Life here on Earth. ARuth Also, it's easier to put words in the mouth of a dead man. (JohnC) 39995 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:05:31 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: O.T. Solar Angel Dear John, I think JJ will agree that the current earth period is the only one where man has a dense physical body. Ruth W. 39996 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:38:51 -0000 From: "stephenmeaky" stephenmeakin13@... Subject: Re: Purpose Driven Life This post is a duplicate of #39993 39997 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:09:14 -0000 From: "Judes" judesr1@... Subject: OT-Filled wit Love: The Song of 144,000 [OT] The Song of 144,000 Second Stanza * We thank you, Father, that you fill us with your protective fires of Love. * That within this Love is complete protection from all destructive thoughts and feelings. * That the consciousness of Christ is lifted up in us in this Love and wherever we will the Love to be enflamed. How are we filled with Love? Why is Love protective? After we have reached up to unite with the Light in God's Mind then we are lifted up with Divine Love. Only on the Plane of Mind and in unity with Brotherly Love are we able to become encompassed with Love- Wisdom. As long as we abide in the focal point of consciousness on this plane then we are accorded protecton from tumultuous storms of our lower emotions where dwells the veil of glamour. The Tempest is overcome. The Christ (The Master) is seen to be walking towards us atop the churning seas. We meet and abide with him in Peace and Understanding. Love to All: Judes 39998 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:30:32 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: Aliens as guides??-OT Hi all!! I beleave there are "aliens" trying to aid us humans in ways to think,guides more or less.. It's like Whitley Strieber's Secret school... Comments??Anyone want to shed some light on this ??? Love and light from up north.. Kim... 39999 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:23:44 -0000 From: "Judes" judesr1@... Subject: Re: OT: By Way Of Explanation No, it's not anything "bad", just that I am focusing my attention and/or energy elsewhere at the present moment, and as kind of "being new at this", I still am having difficulty "multitasking" ;-) Cheers Bryan Judes: LOL.....but then you get bored if not doing ten things at one time...... 40000Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:40:07 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Would someone please send the Avatar of Synthesis prayer. Thanks. Ruth W 40001 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:45:07 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: Mrs Judas Hi JJ As I thought about Ruth's belief that Jesus' molecular relationship failed because of jealousy, I wondered about the fate of Mrs Judas. I assume she was thrown out of the restructured molecule because of her association with Judas and she wasn't the partner of Judas' replacement who must have had his own partner. Too bad for her if she wasn't part of the dastardly plot and was faithful to the teachings. So if someone doesn't measure up in a MR, does the partner who does have to find a replacement or get thrown out? If it's the former, I assume it would probably be one of the 'floaters' ie people waiting on the sidelines to join a molecule. Tricky if the failed partner and the successful partner are also marriage/romantic partners. You've probably commented on this and I've missed it so if someone knows the answer, please drop me a line. Love Glenys JJ Mrs. Judas? Has anyone ever thought of her before? Her fate would make an interesting novel. I believe that Judas has a loosely attached working non married partner that stayed with the group. The typical reaction for a dedicated spouse is to follow her mate through good or evil. A fictional book on thios premise would make for interesting reading. I do not have time to write it but this is a good idea for aspiring writers out there. Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey 40002 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:15:29 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Mrs Judas J J Dewey wrote: Mrs. Judas? Has anyone ever thought of her before? Her fate would make an interesting novel. I believe that Judas has a loosely attached working non married partner that stayed with the group. John: They replaced Judas with Matthias. Maybe Matthias brought his own partner, or married Mrs. Judas. JJ: The typical reaction for a dedicated spouse is to follow her mate through good or evil. A fictional book on this premise would make for interesting reading. I do not have time to write it but this is a good idea for aspiring writers out there. John: There are many novels which have been written around the life of Christ and the disciples and others. "The Robe", "Ben Hur", and "Barabbas" come to mind. Actually, I'm working on one at this time, about the life of Jesus and the disciples. I'm finding two things happening: (1) Once you lay out the characters, the book just seems to write itself. I.e. have you ever seen the cartoon where the artist draws Mickey Mouse, and then Mickey jumps off the page and starts drawing Minnie Mouse, and the rest of the characters? Not that my characters are "Mickey Mouse", but they seem to take on lives of their own. (2) Then you get to the part where you ask yourself "What would so- and-so say on this occasion?" Sometimes, I find the answers coming from the characters themselves, and sometimes from other sources, if you know what I mean. So, I'm starting to wonder what's truth and what's fiction. This recent discussion with AussieRuth was actually productive for me in another way. It got me thinking about some new issues, and it gave me several ideas for my story. So, thanks for that, Ruth. John 40003 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:22:04 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation Glenys wrote: We're not told that much except that the souls (solar angels), as their name implies, are citizens of the solar system rather than of any one planet. John: Oh, I get it "Have halo, will travel." or "Will confirm true principles for food." :);) Thanks for all your posts on this subject, especially the one you posted "long ago". Bryan summed up exactly the way I felt. You go along thinking you actually know something and keep building on that foundation, then one day you discover you have a loose brick or two, so you tear it down, replace the bricks, and keep building. Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:43:49 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Mrs Judas J J Dewey wrote: The typical reaction for a dedicated spouse is to follow her mate through good or evil. Thanks for answering so quickly JJ There's a lot to be said for being single :-) Love Glenys 40004 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:24:13 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John Crane wrote: Bryan summed up exactly the way I felt. You go along thinking you actually know something and keep building on that foundation, then one day you discover you have a loose brick or two, so you tear it down, replace the bricks, and keep building. It's the story of my life :-) On forms I list my occupation as 'construction worker'. Love Glenys Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: "bryan a. smith" smithgiant@... Subject: OT: The Greyston Foundation I again happened to have one of my "accidental channel surfing" incidents last Sunday and caught this piece on 60 Minutes about this organization. If my memory serves me well it was "founded" by a Jew turned Zen Buddist Monk who has essentially created a physical manifestation of "the path"--of course how he sees/treads it, nonetheless, he has done it and/or is doing it! ;-) The piece was inspirational, and also thought the website was well done as well in all aspects. I believe this is a literal manifestation of the vision of future businesses (or one important aspect of them). Hopefully one day there will be a similar "foundation" with the title of "Keys" in it ;-) I highly recommend a "look-see", and here's one of many URLs that can be visited: http://www.greyston.org/index.html Regards Bryan P.S. This seems to be "the real deal" and no hype. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:53:01 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT: The Greyston Foundation bryan wrote: I again happened to have one of my "accidental channel surfing" incidents last Sunday and caught this piece on 60 Minutes about this organization. So, I assume 60 Minutes gave a positive report. No hidden cameras. No skeletons in the closet. Lots of good ideas here. I used to have a book about Shamballa that explained all about mandalas. Unfortunately, I lost it or sold it a number of years ago. When I worked for EDS at my first job, Ross Perot used to talk about founding a business on an ideology as a way to unite and motivate workers. If a worker can fulfill his/her personal goals while at the same time fulfilling the company's goals, that is the best of all possible worlds. I don't know if this company does it, but it's a real motivator if every gets a share in the profits and a share in the decision-making process. For a company like this to succeed, management has to "let go" and trust its employees. Expect smart, honest, motivated employees, and that's what you get. Well, back to work, Big Brother is watching... Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:58:14 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Thank you Diane, for your kind sentiments.....my life has become very 'busy' lately and my energies are being directed in many different directions keeping up with it all! Being a part of the Keysters and just visiting each day to catch up, provides me with a much needed relief from the everyday pressures of the 'real' world....as do my meditations.....it all helps me maintain my focus in the Divine Light, Love and Truth :) Namaste! Khadeejah Diane wrote: Khadeejah, I think that many times when we ask newcomers to search in the archives for answers to questions they may have, that it is a huge daunting task. Using a search method does indeed make it a bit easier. I also know that the Keysters are grateful for your efforts in service to the Hierarchy as well as here on the list. Diane Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:47:39 EST From: BTrodlier@... Subject: Re: Judas and the Rabbinet Bil David writes: It is my hunch that those individuals (Judas and the various Rabbinet of that day and time) volunteered for the assignment of aiding Jesus to complete his Initiation by way of the Cross. I also have a hunch that they were hand picked by Jesus for he knew that he had to have strong souls that would play their part on Earth no matter what happened so he could complete his Contract of Initiation. We know that these hand picked individuals played their part successfully. These individuals also realized the sacrifice they would be making in their growth due to Jewish guilt and Reflection. There is nothing worse than Jewish Guilt. They also realized that over a period of time and many lifetimes, they would overcome their guilt and forgive themselves and move forward. Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:05:51 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Judas and the Rabbinet Bil, I have to agree with you. I was thinking of posting something similar to this yesterday, but didn't because I didn't know how well the ideas would be accepted. I used to think that Judas was totally evil and without redemption, but something told me lately that he has won his place back. Every one of the twelve had his moments where they did or said something that had a bad effect on the molecule. They probably looked at each other across the table and thought "What's he doing here?" But, Jesus knew them all and knew why he chose them and was able to use both their strengths and weaknesses in the work. I think that with the betrayal of Judas, the molecule was strained to the breaking point, but not broken. Here are the reasons why I say this. They were all made of tougher stuff than that. Even the Christ withdrew from Jesus for a time, but that was a necessary part of the plan which had to play out. As Bil points out, the disciples were chosen to help Jesus complete his initiation. But, there was a time when he had to stand and face the music alone. In other words, each of the disciples "pulled out" for awhile, but they came back. The actual betrayal was the agreement which Judas made in advance of the last supper. His heart was already elsewhere. The deal had already been made. The only thing remaining was to play through the motions. Jesus knew this and and he told Judas to "do it quickly". After Judas left the gathering, Jesus gave out some of his best teachings to the disciples. The focus of these teachings, as given in the fourth gospel, is that they should stay together and love one another. He also prepared them to work together in his absence under the influence of the holy spirit. So, I don't think he was contemplating any breakup. Following the betrayal and arrest, the disciples scattered to the four winds for awhile. John and Peter hung out and followed Jesus around during his trials before the Sanhedrin, Herod, Pilate, etc. We have only the record of John actually standing at the foot of the cross, but gnostic records indicate that even he couldn't take it and fled over the the Mount of Olives into a cave to pray. But, the record also indicates that Jesus appeared to him there, and actually expected him to go there so they could commune together. Then we have Peter's (in)famous betrayal. Jesus knew that would happen, knew Peter would return to the fold, and didn't hold this against him. Jesus told the disciples they would scatter, and the disciples found this revelation just as unbelievable as the idea that one of their numbers would betray him. Jesus didn't view this situation with any kind of concern because he knew that they would eventually regroup. Eventually they did regroup. Following the crucifixion, the disciples were still able to "call down the powers of heaven". They saw the risen Christ on several occasions, and what happened on the day of Pentecost is cited as an example of what a modern-day molecule could do when it is formed and has a divine connection. Bil David writes: It is my hunch that those individuals (Judas and the various Rabbinet of that day and time) volunteered for the assignment of aiding Jesus to complete his Initiation by way of the Cross. I also have a hunch that they were hand picked by Jesus for he knew that he had to have strong souls that would play their part on Earth no matter what happened so he could complete his Contract of Initiation. We know that these hand picked individuals played their part successfully. Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:23:12 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: Extraterrestials Kim asks: Excuse me for asking, because this might seem a little late to ask about since you have probably discussed this issue before but I have looked in the archives about aliens and extraterrestrial life but couldn't find satisfactory knowledge concerning this topic.. So what we want to know is if some of the aliens described by people like: eks (Whitley Strieber) are what they try to say they are. And that that they are good and try to help us with expansion of the mind to the higher consciousness. And if they are apart of the brotherhood of light?? And by quoting Whitley Strieber :He once asked them in a close encounter experience "Who or what are you and what is the earth?" And the alien he spoke to answered: "We are recyclers of souls and the earth is a school. And the being was one of the so called "greys" JJ It is interesting how silent the brotherhood has been on extraterrestrials. I think the reason is this. There are several schools of thought among the various seekers of the planet and many of them have a fairly strong fixed belief about what they consider to be the truth of the matter. If the Brotherhood were to clearly reveal the truth of the matter then many would discount other teachings which could assist them as they move upon the path. I'll therefore give you my belief as an opinion that you should feel free to accept or reject. There is very little interstellar flight where physical vehicles and bodies are involved. The technology for such a feat is a spiritual technology that is in the hands of the Brotherhood of Light. They have the power to fold and unfold physical matter. Visits by these spiritual travelers are infrequent by our standards with intervals spanning thousands of years. They come when it is important to assist with our evolution. There is a larger number of visits by entities in etheric vehicles. This class consists of a large variety of entities with a number of different objectives - some helpful and some not so helpful. These entities and their vehicles do not exist in the dense physical, but some have the power to lower their vibration for short periods so they are close to being physical and have convinced many that they are physical. There is much misinformation about extraterrestrials for many of the stories told about them are from implanted memories of events with no concrete reality. Many have memories of being taken aboard a spacecraft when they really either have a memory implant or have desired such a thing so much that they have created a thoughtform which deceived them. Most of the interplanetary and interstellar travel occurs in the higher bodies of advanced entities without the use of any craft. Shamballa receives these visitors periodically and all those who laid the foundations of Shamballa came from other planets, namely Venus, but not the physical planetary body. "When belief and will are in conflict, belief invariably wins." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:40:46 EST From: BTrodlier@... Subject: Re: Extraterrestials Bil David writes: It is my understanding that the Philadelphia Experiment caused a rift in time and space allowing for an abnormal amount of visitations. Do you feel JJ and do the archives indicate that all of this was part of the Divine Plan for Earth's unfoldment and for the big jump into a higher dimension for Earth and its occupants? Maybe that is what 2012 is all about? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:55:13 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Extraterrestials Bil and other UFO watchers: What JJ has said here makes a lot of sense to me, and it also resonates. I hope this puts the subject to rest, and if it does come up again, we can refer people to this post in the archives. One of the most important things you can learn on the Keys is that not all entities who/which come to "visit" come from the same source, nor do they all have the best of motives. To most new agers and to people like Whitley Streiber (who by the way claims that aliens have implanted a spying device in his ear), is that they place equal weight on all outside sources. Also on the Keys, we are also taught the tools by which we can discern and discriminate between true and false messengers and teachers. The only time these tools fail us is when we fail to use them. If somebody comes to you or if you hear of somebody having UFO encounters, it doesn't matter how badly you want it to be true, you need to set emotion aside and apply these tests. Another good guideline which I heard from Vickie Lawrence as "Mama" on "Mama's Family" is the following: "Just because you are dead, doesn't mean that you are smart." JJ wrote: There is a larger number of visits by entities in etheric vehicles. This class consists of a large variety of entities with a number of different objectives - some helpful and some not so helpful. These entities and their vehicles do not exist in the dense physical, but some have the power to lower their vibration for short periods so they are close to being physical and have convinced many that they are physical. There is much misinformation about extraterrestrials for many of the stories told about them are from implanted memories of events with no concrete reality. Many have memories of being taken aboard a spacecraft when they really either have a memory implant or have desired such a thing so much that they have created a thoughtform which deceived them. Most of the interplanetary and interstellar travel occurs in the higher bodies of advanced entities without the use of any craft. Shamballa receives these visitors periodically and all those who laid the foundations of Shamballa came from other planets, namely Venus, but not the physical planetary body. Date: 14 Jan 2004 13:32:37 -0000 From: Keysters Subject: New file uploaded to Keysters Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Keysters group. File : /HPBJFK.jpg Uploaded by : johnk144 kosior6@optonline.net Description : The Real HPB You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/HPBJFK.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, johnk144 kosior6@optonline.net Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:56:06 -0000 From: "John Kosior" kosior6@... Subject: Important HPB Info Hi Folks, I know that this subject matter has passed by, and most here are secure in their belief over JJ's "revelation". But while we were waiting for that, I began sensing a revelation of my own. It was such a strong impression that I had to do the research, and have posted my findings in the files section at Yahoo. Uploaded there, you will find a file named "HPB - ABT". It is a picture of HPB, next to the person that "I" believe was her true next incarnation. I seldom find myself in disagreement with JJ, but felt so strongly about this that I wanted to put it out there for your opinion. If you're into games, maybe you can try to guess who "ABT" is, before looking up the answer in the files section. Then go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ and look for the "real" answer to the question of perhaps HPB's most important incarnation. Please let me know what you think. I believe the picture speaks for itself, and the resemblence is just too close to ignore. Anticipating your responses. JohnK Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:29:41 EST From: IAMmgd@... Subject: Re: Important HPB Info In a message dated 1/14/04 8:59:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, kosior6@optonline.net writes: Please let me know what you think. I believe the picture speaks for itself, and the resemblence is just too close to ignore. ROFL John..............that was GREAT...........I agree, the resemblance cannot be dismissed. I have to go with you on this one and dismiss JJ's fanciful presentation about JFK.!!! Still laughing, Maryellen Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:24:01 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: Important HPB Info Well, she was a real source of wisdom. Right up there with "Mama". John K wrote: If you're into games, maybe you can try to guess who "ABT" is, before looking up the answer in the files section. Then go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:32:09 EST From: IAMmgd@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation theslothis writes: Song of 144,000 first, Great Invocatio second, and the Avatar one third. A triad of prayers if you will." You know Susan I use exactly the same sequence, song, invocation and synthesis prayer. I wonder how many others have followed this sequence without any prompting to do so? I have used this sequence from the beginning also!!! Maryellen Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:48:42 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: O.T. Total number of posts Hi everyone I just had to tell you....We began the Keys list on October 23, 1998. Since that time we have now posted over 40,000 emails to the list. Congratuations, Ruth, you put us over the top. LOL Marylin 40000-Re: OT Avatar Invocation Ruthangel ruthwinocur Tue 1/13/2004 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:42:26 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation/Avatar of Coordination Question I have asked this twice before, but got no respose. Here goes again. When we first started discussing the Avatar of Synthesis, I looked it up in the AAB books. I found one reference which spoke of a greater avatar called the Avatar of Synthesis (AS) and a lesser avatar called the Avatar of Coordination (AC). This isn't the reference I read originally, but it's close. The reference I read before said that the AS would only manifest on the mental plane, but the AC could manifest on the physical plane, depending on the massed intent of humanity. The source also said that the AC could be the Christ or someone of the same stature. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/externalisation/exte1130.html "These steps are various in kind though one in intent. The first step is to realize clearly what are the methods whereby the Avatar can come and so reach humanity. These are the same methods, whether it is the Avatar of Synthesis, working through the Hierarchy, or the Avatar of Coordination (as I might call Him), working through humanity and representing the greater Avatar upon the physical plane." So, this being the case, how come we haven't discussed the Avatar of Coordination and how come we don't pray for this avatar to manifest? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:26:38 -0600 From: "melvab" melvab@... Subject: Extraterrestials In part, JJ's reply to Kim re: ET's: "There is very little interstellar flight where physical vehicles and bodies are involved. The technology for such a feat is a spiritual technology that is in the hands of the Brotherhood of Light. They have the power to fold and unfold physical matter." When I read: "they have the power to fold and unfold physical mattter"... I got instant body chills. One of the dynamics in an alzheimers pt's brain is the incorrect unfolding of prions. Then I think about the DNA spiral and how it is not only a spiral, but that is also folds in on itself... more body chills. Melva Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:37:53 -0600 From: "melvab" melvab@... Subject: The Real HPB/ABT I don't usually reply to e-mails that are self-explanatory but: Good one, John. I am roflolacs (and can't stop.) And you are to be lauded for your in depth study. How long did it take you to find the "real" HPB? (still can't stop...roflolacs) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:02:09 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation/Avatar of Coordination Question This can be mind boggling to understand the nature of the Avatar of Synthesis and what he shall do. He can "come" in so many different ways that it is easy to get lost in reading about him. First, he can overshadow someone in the Hierarchy "A Messenger or Avatar of equal rank to the Christ in the Hierarchy (or possibly Christ Himself) may come forth as the Representative of the Avatar of Synthesis and as His transmitting Agent. This lesser Avatar works today as one of the senior Members of the Great White Lodge and is in close touch with the Christ, with the Manu and with the Lord of Civilization, the Master R -; He will act as the Coordinator between the Hierarchy and Shamballa." Master R is also referred to as The Rider on the White Horse or The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "This Avatar can descend to the physical plane and there appear, to lead His people - as the Prince Who leads through war to peace." http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/externalisation/exte1129.html This is the person of whom John C. speaks, once referred to as the Avatar of Coordination, Master R. DK is not saying ABSOLUTELY that this is how he will manifest to us, but is a strong possibility. The other possibility is that The Christ himself may step down these energies and physically incarnate with these energies manifest. DK cautions us to not be too stuck in how we foresee this energy being made manifest in the flesh so that we will not reject this World Savior as Jesus and the Christ working together were rejected. Second, he can overshadow a group of world servers. Third, his influence can be received by individuals who are focused on group work and bring forth this energy through their work which inevitably leads to some sort of group work at some point. Because his First Ray Power is so potent The Avatar of Synthesis cannot incarnate directly as his energy may well destroy us all. His energy must be stepped down for us to receive. It is up to people of good will, aspirants and disciples and their invoking of these energies in a very focused manner which will determine how potently this energy will be manifest. The Invocation that JJ has given us goes mostly after the second: "Let the Avatar of Synthesis manifest to the group of which I am a part." I say mostly because Master R could show up in our group and manifest that way. The question is, would we recognize him? OR someone in our group could be so attunded to that energy of the Avatar of Synthesis that they represent that energy to our little group. So to answer succinctly, the reason we don't directly invoke The Avatar of Coordination or Master R, is he is not the only possibility. Susan I have asked this twice before, but got no respose. Here goes again. When we first started discussing the Avatar of Synthesis, I looked it up in the AAB books. I found one reference which spoke of a greater avatar called the Avatar of Synthesis (AS) and a lesser avatar called the Avatar of Coordination (AC). This isn't the reference I read originally, but it's close. The reference I read before said that the AS would only manifest on the mental plane, but the AC could manifest on the physical plane, depending on the massed intent of humanity. The source also said that the AC could be the Christ or someone of the same stature. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/externalisation/exte1130.html "These steps are various in kind though one in intent. The first step is to realize clearly what are the methods whereby the Avatar can come and so reach humanity. These are the same methods, whether it is the Avatar of Synthesis, working through the Hierarchy, or the Avatar of Coordination (as I might call Him), working through humanity and representing the greater Avatar upon the physical plane." So, this being the case, how come we haven't discussed the Avatar of Coordination and how come we don't pray for this avatar to manifest? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: O.T. Total number of posts That is inspiring!!! Love and light, Eve BambieA@aol.com wrote: Hi everyone I just had to tell you....We began the Keys list on October 23, 1998. Since that time we have now posted over 40,000 emails to the list. Congratuations, Ruth, you put us over the top. LOL Marylin Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:38:09 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: Re: OT - Soul Confirmation John C, I think this is helpful; it was to me. Blessings! "The soul of each individual has reached its own specific stage ofunfoldment; each soul has to endure every possible phase ofexperience that life in the material world can offer ?? the good and thebad, the bitter and the sweet, and to learn from these experiences,until eventually the essence has been extracted and assimilated fromall that physical life can offer, and the urge to withdraw from the threeworlds and to return to the Fathers home becomes paramount." More info re defining the soul: 1. The soul is neither spirit nor matter, but relates the two, serving aslink between Spirit and the material instrument through which itfunctions. It is synonymous with the Christ-principle in man.2. The soul is responsible for the quality and characteristics of life, andrepresents the latent powers of expression in every human being.3. The souls contribution is self- consciousness, and the sourcethrough which the form registers conscious awareness of itsenvironment. The extent to which the consciousness is expanding istherefore an indication of the progressive integration of the soul withits instrument of expression.4. The soul represents the principles of sentiency and intelligence inman, demonstrating as mind and mental awareness, and giving rise tothe power to discriminate, to analyse, to distinguish, and to decide.5. The soul is immortal. When a particular life has fulfilled its purpose,the soul withdraws, the physical body ??dies and disintegrates, and thesoul returns to egoic levels.6. The immortal soul is the link between successive incarnations; ittherefore provides continuity. By extracting and assimilating theessence from experience gained during each incarnation, the soulinitiates the unfoldment and evolution of the consciousness.(from Aart Jurriaanse) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Evelyn White-Bey ewhitebey@... Subject: OT - Soul Confirmation Check out the following URL -- Solar Angel - Lithograph by Benjamin Creme. http://www.siriusart.org/litho-solarangel.html In love and light, Eve Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:00:32 -0000 From: "hawkiye55" hawkiye@... Subject: OT Mel Gibson's "The Passion" I found this commentary on another board and thought some of you might be interested in it. I have only been low to moderately interested in the bantering about this movie till I read Paul Harvey's review and now can't wait to see the movie when it comes out. Blayne Paul Harvey Comments on "The Passion" by Mel Gibson and a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about Mel Gibson's very controversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It, too, is well worth reading. The majority of the media are complaining about this movie. Now Paul Harvey tells "The rest of the story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson. Most people would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews that have been issued by the reporters trying to tell all of us what to believe. Paul Harvey's words: I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions. I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. >From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced. In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth. One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love. At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth. We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it! This is a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about Mel Gibson's very controversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It, too, is well worth reading. MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION" How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license with historical events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant, but when another takes special care to be true to the real- life story, he is vilified. Actor-producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths the hard way as he is having difficulty finding a United States studio or distributor for his upcoming film, "The Passion," which depicts the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ. Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie. For the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God." Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics. "I'm trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying to be very real about it." So committed to realistically portraying what many would consider the most important half-day in the history of the universe, Gibson even shot the film in the Aramaic language of the period. In response to objections that viewers will not be able to understand that language, Gibson said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend the language barriers with my visual storytelling; if I fail, I fail, but at least it'll be a monumental failure." To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted the counsel of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. Don Hodel, president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. The movie is historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of the National Evangelical Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who Jesus was." During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass every morning because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." From Gibson's perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's bigger than he is. "I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize." Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson is getting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity...[and] people being healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understand through the movie, if they don't already, the incalculable influence Christ has had on the world. And he grasps that Christ is controversial precisely because of WHO HE IS - GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of my film really, to show all that turmoil around him politically and with religious leaders and the people, all because He is Who He is." Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversial Christ is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie's authenticity, but have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, which Gibson vehemently denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing. '[Jesus] came into the world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that." Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, who translated the script into Aramaic and Latin, said he saw no hint of anti-Semitism in the movie. Fulco added, "I would be aghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless, certain groups and some in the mainstream press have been very critical of Gibson's "Passion." The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel, to tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denounced Gibson's literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithful repetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred," wrote Carroll. A group of Jewish and Christian academics has issued an 18-page report slamming all aspects of the film, including its undue emphasis on Christ's passion rather than "a broader vision." The report disapproves of the movie's treatment of Christ's passion as historical fact. The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work on Christ, make sure it depicts Him as an everyday sinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In our anti-Christian culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ" is celebrated and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continues to affect people the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition will suppress its force and its positive impact on lives everywhere. Mel Gibson is a model of faith and courage. Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:54:19 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: Important HPB Info Hi John! You may not have anticipated this somewhat anti-climatic response but, forgive my ignorance, I have no idea as to the identity of the lady in the photo lolol I would appreciate anyone shedding light on this matter for me :) Namaste Khadeejah ??John Kosior wrote: Hi Folks, If you're into games, maybe you can try to guess who "ABT" is, before looking up the answer in the files section. Then go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ and look for the "real" answer to the question of perhaps HPB's most important incarnation. Please let me know what you think. I believe the picture speaks for itself, and the resemblence is just too close to ignore. Anticipating your responses. JohnK Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:36:31 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: Re: Re: Important HPB Info (she is a famous star in the classic American sitcom "The Andy Griffith Show" and the picture is of "Aunt Bea." It was popular in the 60's) Susan PS LOL John....... Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:48:19 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: Important HPB Info Aunt Bea Taylor. She was so sweet. Thanks JohnK. I loved it too. Diane Susan Carter wrote: (she is a famous star in the classic American sitcom "The Andy Griffith Show" and the picture is of "Aunt Bea." It was popular in the 60's) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:23:14 -0000 From: "T. Rob B. Jr." trobbjr75@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation I've said the Avatar Invocation very few times since the last Gathering. That was as much power as I could or wanted to handle presently. Rob Susan Carter wrote: JJ gave us an invocation some time back and I would like to repeat it for our newcomers. It is a cool thing to add to your daily meditations and prayers. Be prepared for a different energy then you may have experienced. It is pretty powerful. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:05:21 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: The Philadelphia Experiment Bill Writes: It is my understanding that the Philadelphia Experiment caused a rift in time and space allowing for an abnormal amount of visitations. Do you feel JJ and do the archives indicate that all of this was part of the Divine Plan for Earth's unfoldment and for the big jump into a higher dimension for Earth and its occupants? Maybe that is what 2012 is all about? JJ One of the principles of discovery of new truth and insights is to first become familiar with the information that is readily available. The Greater Lives do not give out revelation to the lazy, but to those who discover all they can on their own. (I am not saying that anyone here is lazy - just stating a principle) Perhaps you will recall the parable of the Talents: Matt 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Matt 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Matt 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. Matt 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. Matt 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. Matt 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. Matt 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. Matt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Matt 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. Matt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Matt 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: Matt 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. Matt 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Matt 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. Matt 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Matt 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The above scripture has many interpretations which may apply, but I will give one here that is off the beaten path. The man from "a far country" represents the soul. The talent represents the inherit light and knowledge of the seeker. The experienced entity may have five portions, another may have two and the beginning seeker may have only one. The two more advanced seekers understand the principles of discovery and expansion and desire to expand their knowledge in any way possible by looking into all possibilities within and without. On the other hand, the beginner thinks that all comes from within and thus keeps his knowledge buried within himself, not allowing for expansion to be stimulated from the interplay of that which is without with that which is within. The beginner often makes the mistake of burying his talent, expecting to reap where he has not sown. He does this because he sees his soul as having acquired all the knowledge of the universe with no effort: "Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed." On the other hand, his Solar Angel has struggled through countless cycles of time to get where he is and says to the beginner: "Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents." In other words, the power of the soul will gravitate to him who has much, but does not bury his talent. The soul knows that he will have to come back later to the beginner who has buried his head in the sand. Alas, the soul must wait until the novice learns his lesson and looks outward as well as inward. This same principle applies to any piece of knowledge we wish to understand. I've read a few things about the Philadelphia Experiment and found them quite fascinating, but have not researched it enough to get the final piece of the puzzle from my soul. Since I am short on time right now I thought I would make this a class project. Go to your favorite search engine and type in the words "Philadelphia Experiment" and then attempt to find two web pages that support a supernatural event and two that are skeptical and give us a post on what you have concluded by reading both sides. Don't just take the first four or five sites that come up but look over a number of them before you explore. (1) Did a supernatural event occur? (2) Are there real witnesses? Are they telling the truth? (3) Was time (or dimensional) travel involved? (4) Any other interesting insights. Since I have only heard the believing side in the past I thought I would check a couple skeptical ones. Here are a couple good ones: http://www.softwareartist.com/philexp.html#excerpt http://www.bielek-debunked.com/index2.html Looking forward to some interesting posts here. "What you sincerely believe as true of another, you awaken within him." Neville Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:29:48 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: The Philadelphia Experiment "What you sincerely believe as true of another, you awaken within him." Neville I've always believed that principle, but I have never seen a quote which put it so succinctly. When I was in the mission field, when I was about to leave for home, the president told me that my job had been to train my companions to be leaders. I wondered how this could be because I had never thought of myself as being any kind of leader. The only thing I could think of that I did was that I always viewed my companions as leaders and treated them accordingly. Guess this principle works whether you realize you are using it or not. A week before I returned to America, several of my former companions, who became leaders got together and threw a surprise party for me. Thanks for these insights about the Solar Angel. This helps answer my question. And thanks to everybody who responded. All of you feedback was greatly appreciated. My problem was I was confusing the soul and the Solar Angel. JJ wrote: On the other hand, his Solar Angel has struggled through countless cycles of time to get where he is and says to the beginner: "Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents." In other words, the power of the soul will gravitate to him who has much, but does not bury his talent. The soul knows that he will have to come back later to the beginner who has buried his head in the sand. Alas, the soul must wait until the novice learns his lesson and looks outward as well as inward. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:52:49 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Dear Susan, Thank you for sending the Avatar of Synthesis Invocation. It is very much appreciated and will be added to the Great Invocation. Thanks again. Ruth W/ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:43:31 -0700 From: "Susan Carter" susan@... Subject: Re: OT Avatar Invocation You are most welcome. I hope many more find it of interest. Susan Dear Susan, Thank you for sending the Avatar of Synthesis Invocation. Ruth W/ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:43:19 -0500 From: john kosior kosior6@... Subject: (OT) Re: Important HPB Info Yes, that's right, from all the indicators of my in-depth research, deep meditations, astral channelings, alien encounters, ritual blood-letting ceremonies, tea leaf readings, out-of-body experiences, dreams while asleep and waking, I have made the stunning discovery that HPB was actually incarnated as Aunt Bea Taylor. Now, since both Aunt Bea and JFK are both gone, I suppose we'll not be asking them their opinions on this. But I think that we could let the pictures speak for themselves. You know, the camera never lies. Incidentally, I think I once saw that picture of HPB in a anti-smoking campaign ad. If not, she would make a great "don't let this happen to you" model. All for fun, JohnK Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:55:02 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: The Assignment I'd be negligent in my duties not to acknowledge John K's great discovery that H. P. Blavatsky really returned as Aunt Bea. I'm sure the Theosophical Society would be interested in this. Another secret is that DK retrurned as Barney Fife, but suffered a little brain damage at birth. Keith, I think the group would be interested in hearing about what you pick up while doing the Avatar invocation. OK, my friends. No one responded to yesterday's assignment. I know this one will take a little work, but this is one of the few times I've asked you to do research. Let me repeat: Go to your favorite search engine and type in the words "Philadelphia Experiment" and then attempt to find two web pages that support a supernatural event and two that are skeptical and give us a post on what you have concluded by reading both sides. Don't just take the first four or five sites that come up but look over a number of them before you explore. (1) Did a supernatural event occur? (2) Are there real witnesses? Are they telling the truth? (3) Was time (or dimensional) travel involved? (4) Any other interesting insights. Since I have only heard the believing side in the past I thought I would check a couple skeptical ones. Here are a couple good ones: http://www.softwareartist.com/philexp.html#excerpt http://www.bielek-debunked.com/index2.html If we get several people participating we should get some interesting opinions. "A change of feeling is a change of destiny." Neville Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:55:08 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: Favor I have a favor to ask the group. We are gathering the names and addressees of local new age/metaphysical newspapers and publications. In each area of the country where there is a reasonable population base there is usually a local publication for the metaphysical community. It is generally in some type free newspaper or booklet format. We have a plan that will use these publications to help promote the Immortal series. What you could do to help is this: If you know of such a publication in your area please send the name, address and phone number of it to me. You can visit a sample of a very successful publication of this type in Atlanta George at: www.aquarius-atlanta.com Many of these are smaller though. The one is Boise is called Hedra News and only has a circulation of 4,000. Thanks for your help. JJ Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:05:37 +0100 From: "Kim Jurs" crazykimz@... Subject: RE: Extraterrestials Thank you for sharing your opinion with us j j!!! But does that mean that all the tapes and pictures people have of extraterrestrials or theire vehicles are fake??? And are "they" as diffrent to each other like us humans are??? I'm really trying to see through it all,though it's a difficult path.. My yourney is long but i'll get there.. I know i will.. Love and light! kim.. Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:09:05 -0700 From: "Sterling D. Allan" sterlingda@... Subject: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED ------ CAN MEN BE ORDAINED By Rosemary R. Ruether Professor of Feminist Theology at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, Calif. A synod of bishops from the four corners of the earth and a full panoply of Mother Superiors, recently converged on the Holy City of Rome to consider the vexed question of the ordination of men. The Holy See had received many tearful appeals from the cruder sex claiming to have a call to the priesthood directly from God Herself. But Her Holiness had firmly replied to these appeals that the call must have been a wrong number. Our Holy Mother in heaven would never call to the ministry those so obviously disqualified by reason of gender. But the men had refused to take no for an answer. Throwing down their picks and shovels, they had declared they would do no more maintenance work for the Church until there was equality of rites.They sent petitions to the Holy See filled with arguments for the ordination of men, both theological and practical. Although, of course, they could cite no example from Jesus Himself, the incarnation of Holy Wisdom, since He had most evidently ordained no men to the priesthood (or women either). Finally Her Holiness decided to gather the Holy Mothers of the Church together, with a number of the best qualified peritae, who had spent a lifetime studying the odd characteristics of the male gender, from a safe distance, of course. They hoped to come up with a definitve answer, once and for all,to the vexed question of the ordination of men. After long and careful study in which the Holy Mothers had enjoyed many a good laugh on the subject of men and their foibles, a final decree was drawn up defining the reasons why men could not be ordained. The decree as proclaimed by her Holiness and the Holy Others departed for their respective seats of Wisdom, feeling very pleased with themselves. The decree Ad Hominem stated to their satisfaction, and hopefully for all time, the weighty reasons for their gut prejudice. The first part of the decree deduced a good many reasons from men's biological and psychological natures that disqualified them from the priesthood. It was said, first of all, the men were too violent and emotional to be priests. Anyone who has watched groups of men at football matches, ice hockey or cricket games, not to mention political conventions, has seen their volatile tendencies and penchant for solving conflicts with fisticuffs. To ordain such creatures would be to risk disgraceful brawls at the altar. The male proneness to violence surely disqualifies them from representing the One who incarnates graciousness and peace. The cruder and heavier physical frame of the male clearly marks him out for the physical tasks of society, digging ditches, mending roofs and the like. The finer, more spiritual tasks of society are intended by our Mother in Heaven for those more refined spirits and bodies, women. This separation of roles is clearly evident in scripture where the males are said to have been created from dirt, while women were created from human flesh. Moreover, women were created last, clearly marking them out as the crown of creation. It was even suggested by one Mother Superior that Adam was rough draft, Eve being the more refined and complete version of human nature. the Mothers had a good many laughs on that one, and some decided to make it into a bumper sticker. It was also felt that men were needed for military defense. A man's place is in the Army, declared one of the peritae, and all the Holy Mothers nodded in agreement. Beside, men would look silly in red dresses and lace. The sacred garb is clearly intended for women. Profound matters of a theological nature were also discussed. One perita has prepared a long paper proving from the smbolic order that men could not be ordained. The division of humanity into male and female is a profound mystery that symbolizes the relationship of the transcendent and the immanent, the spiritual and the material. Women represent the spiritual realm, men the material. The material must be ruled by the spiritual, just as Holy Wisdom presides over the physical cosmos as her household. Moreover, since the Church is female, those who represent her clearly should be female as well. There should b a physical resemblance between the priest and the church as Holy Mother. Obviously this means that all priests should be mature women. The Church is also said to be the Bride of Christ and brides are female. The priest, as reresentative of the Church in relation to Christ ,represents Christ's bride. Therefore only women can be priests. Finally, it was noted that most of the people who come to church are women. Men tend to stand outside the doors of the church, gossiping or sneaking off to sports matches. To have a man at the altar might distract a woman from her prayers. It was solemnly noted that men are sexually attractive to some women. For women to have to sit listening to men preach and watch them stomping about the sanctuary might lead their thought todescend from he higher to the lower realm. It was hoped that with so many clear reasons, both from the theological and the practical realm against the ordination of men, this would settle the matter. Male impertinence would be silenced and they would sink back into their proper sphere. Roma locuta, causa finita. Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: "bryan a. smith" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: The Assignment (was the Philadelphia Experiment) JJ, all: The reason I have not responded to JJ's post concerning this topic is not for the reasons that any of you might suppose. The teachings as offered by JJ and the subjects thereof are not the only thing that I have "studied and contemplated" in my life. And while I do not consider myself any kind of expert on any of these topics, the list of these subjects, and a regurgitation of what I came to know or not know about them would be far too lenthy to post here, so I'll just lump together (as I have done in the past) as "subjects of interest and intrigue", which among them was The Philadelphia Experiment. Past examinations of my motives and "the urge and attraction" to subjects/topics as these can be only described or subscribed to my belief that "what is, is not", or "what appears to be may not be". My search for, study and contemplation of these things then, and of these things is or was for no other reasons than what I am presently engaged in here at the Keys. Albeit, the results and even the reasons for doing so have dramatically changed. Hence, the desire or urge to "know of such things" has noticably "dissappeared" or "vanished". This also includes such things as my "passion" and desire to accomplish similar goals via "art" to which I devoted my entire self to in terms of mind, soul and "substance" to no apparent avail. In any event all of it was towards a goal of "finding or knowing the truth". While I'm sure that JJ is/was inspired to suggest this "assignment", and that there is more than likely a "higher reason and purpose" beyond that which my small mind/view or understanding can conceive of, just simply "obeying" a request to "do something"--in this case something that I have already done, and which I found to be unfruitful is not enough. When I use the word "unfruitful", I mean to imply that I did not discover or come to know any "keys to understanding", nor any "additonal light" shed on me, nor upon my understanding of the world, or anything related to it or that would aid me in my understanding of other related/unrelated topics. If there was any "truth" to be found in all the online resources that I read (and at the time I believe I read just about everything that was availble) I simply could not find it, and it wasn't because I didn't "look", but more towards the fact that at every "turn" or upon every presentation of "a fact" that there was something ffered that supported it, *and* some thing that refuted it. Yes, I know that that is where "soul confirmation" is supposed to "take over". And, for the most part I could make a "independent decision" based on what was given, with the biggest stumbling block coming from the involvement of the individual known as Carlos Allende. The only reason I had returned to the subject at that time was because I had come across a reference stating that not only was A. Einstein involved, but others such as Nikola Tesla were as well. Again, please do not misconstrue/interpret my comments or their intent to mean that I do not support JJ's suggested assignment or the value of it. Quite the contrary, as I know that there exists a great possibility that like with many things I "cast my focus and gaze" on, I could be just as wrong about this as I am and/or have been about other things. As I stated above, it's just that at this time I question or need more by way of "a promise" as to what I would glean from such an expediture of time and effort to complete this assignment, as opposed, let's say from applying the same amount of time and energy studying anything from AAB/DK or any other theosopical/spiritual texts, or even other subjects dealing with "ancient history" such as The Great Hopewell Road (and earthworks), the "moundbuilders", the Serpent Mound, or even Vimanas of Ancient India, etc. Regards Bryan Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:28:12 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED I go by the scripture "If ye have desires to serve God, ye are called to the work." If a person truly has a desire to serve, then they WILL find ways to serve, with or without the blessing of some church. To go back to the example of the little church we started, the president was hot to ordain women, so when one particular women joined the church, he immediately ordained her to the office of Elder and 2-3 months later, ordained her a High Priest and made her Second Counselor in the Presidency. This women was satisfied for a time, and when Sonja Johnson, the ex-Mormon feminist came to town, this women met with Ms Johnson and proudly told her that she held high office in the church. All Ms Johnson could say was "Just second counselor?" So, it's all about perceived power and glamor, after all. Isn't it? Sterling D. Allan wrote: ---------- CAN MEN BE ORDAINED By Rosemary R. Ruether Professor of Feminist Theology at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, Calif. Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:57:44 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: The Assignment J J wrote: OK, my friends. No one responded to yesterday's assignment. I know this one will take a little work, but this is one of the few times I've asked you to do research. John: Consider this a response. I have been very busy with a new assignmnet at work, so I haven't had the time yet. I intend to pursue it over the weekend with the same vigah (a little JFK lingo) with which I pursued Mary Magdelene last weekend. (Actually, I didn't pursue the MM the woman. I pursued references to her and John in the gnostic literature.) At first, I didn't think I was interested, but I remembered seeing the movie a couple of years ago, and it is kind of a fascinating topic. Right now, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. It will be interesting to read what both side have to say about it. BTW, here is a photo of "Aunt Bea" in younger days. Not bad looking. http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?prodid=3026&start=1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:53:27 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Demko douglasdemko@... Subject: OT promoting The Immortal I found new copies of The Immortal Books I & II in a local thrift shop and after reading the first couple of chapters went back and bought them all. They were $0.95 each. Great deal! I tried promoting The Immortal in my community and took a lot of heat for it. My communities understanding of metaphysical practices is very strict. In short, all metaphysical practices are forbidden and warrant expulsions. Fortunately, the directors favored my right to read a book. It must seem strange that I would promoted your book in such an environment. There is one reason and one reason only that I took your book as genuine. This one reason is the fact that your teacher came to you in the flesh and taught many of the principles and values of the Brotherhood of Man. If the book had been the result of mediums, channels or automatic writing I would have put it down and moved on. On promoting your book, in this case I would suggest publishing it yourself. Selling your book alongside channel or medium books dose not help in some circles. Individuals should consider that all these unseen spirits taking the control of someone else's body are breaking one of the most sacred laws of the true Brotherhood. A true Brother will never work through mediums or channels. John came to JJ in the flesh and this is why I take their position seriously. It is typical humane behavior to become impressed buy the site of a channel or medium, I have seen and heard many. Besides, who would listen to me, anyone can join a yahoo-group and send a message. But if I was channeling Ookybooky from planet Zuk you might take my every word seriously. I joined this group because I though it would be exploring the teachings in The Immortal Books I & II. For example, there is a lot of information in those Books that I would like to know more about. Douglas Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:56:34 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED Dear Sterling, Great article! I'm so glad we've finally got it right! Ruth W Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:31:09 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: OT Mars Rover Images http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spiritp012.html Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:50:28 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Avatar Invocation Incidentally, I think I once saw that picture of HPB in a anti-smoking campaign ad. If not, she would make a great "don't let this happen to you" model. All for fun, JohnK LOL John, I once saw of picture of HPB with a cigar in her hand. What would she be doing in an anti-smoking campaign? Marylin Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:55:34 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: Re: The Assignment Hi JJ I hope this is in line with what you are looking for in the way of a response. Marylin DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY OFFICE OF NAVAL RESEARCH ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA 22217 Information Sheet: Philadelphia Experiment Over the years, the Navy has received innumerable queries about the so-called "Philadelphia Experiment" or "Project" and the alleged role of the Office of Naval Research (ONR) in it. The majority of these inquiries are directed to the Office of Naval Research or to the Fourth Naval District in Philadelphia. The frequency of these queries predictably intensifies each time the experiment is mentioned by the popular press, often in a science fiction book. The genesis of the Philadelphia Experiment myth dates back to 1955 with the publication of The Case for UFO's by the late Morris K. Jessup. Some time after the publication of the book, Jessup received correspondence from a Carlos Miquel Allende, who gave his address as R.D. #1, Box 223, New Kensington, Pa. In his correspondence, Allende commented on Jessup's book and gave details of an alleged secret naval experiment conducted by the Navy in Philadelphia in 1943. During the experiment, according to Allende, a ship was rendered invisible and teleported to and from Norfolk in a few minutes, with some terrible after-effects for crew members. Supposedly, this incredible feat was accomplished by applying Einstein's "unified field" theory. Allende claimed that he had witnessed the experiment from another ship and that the incident was reported in a Philadelphia newspaper. The identity of the newspaper has never been established. Similarly, the identity of Allende is unknown, and no information exists on his present address. In 1956 a copy of Jessup's book was mailed anonymously to ONR. The pages of the book were interspersed with hand-written comments which alleged a knowledge of UFO's, their means of motion, the culture and ethos of the beings occupying these UFO's, described in pseudo-scientific and incoherent terms. Two officers, then assigned to ONR, took a personal interest in the book and showed it to Jessup. Jessup concluded that the writer of those comments on his book was the same person who had written him about the Philadelphia Experiment. These two officers personally had the book retyped and arranged for the reprint, in typewritten form, of 25 copies. The officers and their personal belongings have left ONR many years ago, and ONR does not have a file copy of the annotated book. Personnel at the Fourth Naval District believe that the questions surrounding the so-called "Philadelphia Experiment" arise from quite routine research which occurred during World War II at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. Until recently, it was believed that the foundation for the apocryphal stories arose from degaussing experiments which have the effect of making a ship undetectable or "invisible" to magnetic mines. Another likely genesis of the bizarre stories about levitation, teleportation and effects on human crew members might be attributed to experiments with the generating plant of a destroyer, the USS Timmerman. In the 1950's this ship was part of an experiment to test the effects of a small, high-frequency generator providing l,000 hz instead of the standard 400hz. The higher frequency generator produced corona discharges, and other well known phenomena associated with high frequency generators. None of the crew suffered effects from the experiment. ONR has never conducted any investigations on invisibility, either in 1943 or at any other time (ONR was established in 1946.) In view of present scientific knowledge, ONR scientists do not believe that such an experiment could be possible except in the realm of science fiction. 08 September 1996 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:57:13 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: Re: Asignment Here is another The "Philadelphia Experiment" Related resources:: Office of Naval Research (ONR) fact sheet UFO Research Guide Photograph of USS Eldridge Allegedly, in the fall of 1943 a U.S. Navy destroyer was made invisible and teleported from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Norfolk, Virginia, in an incident known as the Philadelphia Experiment. Records in the Operational Archives Branch of the Naval Historical Center have been repeatedly searched, but no documents have been located which confirm the event, or any interest by the Navy in attempting such an achievement. The ship involved in the experiment was supposedly the USS Eldridge. Operational Archives has reviewed the deck log and war diary from Eldridge's commissioning on 27 August 1943 at the New York Navy Yard through December 1943. The following description of Eldridge's activities are summarized from the ship's war diary. After commissioning, Eldridge remained in New York and in the Long Island Sound until 16 September when it sailed to Bermuda. From 18 September, the ship was in the vicinity of Bermuda undergoing training and sea trials until 15 October when Eldridge left in a convoy for New York where the convoy entered on 18 October. Eldridge remained in New York harbor until 1 November when it was part of the escort for Convoy UGS-23 (New York Section). On 2 November the convoy entered Naval Operating Base, Norfolk. On 3 November, Eldridge and Convoy UGS-23 left for Casablanca where it arrived on 22 November. On 29 November, Eldridge left as one of escorts for Convoy GUS-22 and arrived with the convoy on 17 December at New York harbor. Eldridge remained in New York on availability training and in Block Island Sound until 31 December when it steamed to Norfolk with four other ships. During this time frame, Eldridge was never in Philadelphia. Eldridge's complete World War II action report and war diary coverage, including the remarks section of the 1943 deck log, is available on microfilm, NRS-1978-26. The cost of a duplicate film is indicated on the fee schedule. To order a duplicate film, please complete the duplication order form and send a check or money order for the correct amount as indicated on the NHC fee schedule, made payable to the Department of the Navy, to the Operational Archives, at the above address. Supposedly, the crew of the civilian merchant ship SS Andrew Furuseth observed the arrival via teleportation of the Eldridge into the Norfolk area. Andrew Furuseth's movement report cards are in the Tenth Fleet records in the custody of the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Admnistration, (8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001), which also has custody of the action reports, war diaries and deck logs of all World War II Navy ships, including Eldridge. The movement report cards list the merchant ship's ports of call, the dates of the visit, and convoy designation, if any. The movement report card shows that Andrew Furuseth left Norfolk with Convoy UGS-15 on 16 August 1943 and arrived at Casablanca on 2 September. The ship left Casablanca on 19 September and arrived off Cape Henry on 4 October. Andrew Furuseth left Norfolk with Convoy UGS-22 on 25 October and arrived at Oran on 12 November. The ship remained in the Mediterranean until it returned with Convoy GUS-25 to Hampton Roads on 17 January 1944. The Archives has a letter from Lieutenant Junior Grade William S. Dodge, USNR, (Ret.), the Master of Andrew Furuseth in 1943, categorically denying that he or his crew observed any unusual event while in Norfolk. Eldridge and Andrew Furuseth were not even in Norfolk at the same time. The Office of Naval Research (ONR) has stated that the use of force fields to make a ship and her crew invisible does not conform to known physical laws. ONR also claims that Dr. Albert Einstein's Unified Field Theory was never completed. During 1943-1944, Einstein was a part-time consultant with the Navy's Bureau of Ordnance, undertaking theoretical research on explosives and explosions. There is no indication that Einstein was involved in research relevant to invisibility or to teleportation. ONR's information sheet on the Philadelphia Experiment is attached. The Philadelphia Experiment has also been called "Project Rainbow." A comprehensive search of the Archives has failed to identify records of a Project Rainbow relating to teleportation or making a ship disappear. In the 1940s, the code name RAINBOW was used to refer to the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis. The RAINBOW plans were the war plans to defeat Italy, Germany and Japan. RAINBOW V, the plan in effect on 7 December 1941 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, was the plan the U.S. used to fight the Axis powers. Some researchers have erroneously concluded that degaussing has a connection with making an object invisible. Degaussing is a process in which a system of electrical cables are installed around the circumference of ship's hull, running from bow to stern on both sides. A measured electrical current is passed through these cables to cancel out the ship's magnetic field. Degaussing equipment was installed in the hull of Navy ships and could be turned on whenever the ship was in waters that might contain magnetic mines, usually shallow waters in combat areas. It could be said that degaussing, correctly done, makes a ship "invisible" to the sensors of magnetic mines, but the ship remains visible to the human eye, radar, and underwater listening devices. After many years of searching, the staff of the Operational Archives and independent researchers have not located any official documents that support the assertion that an invisibility or teleportation experiment involving a Navy ship occurred at Philadelphia or any other location. 28 November 2000 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:57:25 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED; et al Interesting...no, not so much the story as I know there's a "word" which is used to describe this type of "approach/style"...can't think of it now. I guess I just see a lot of "things" a bit differently, no not towards "being right" but just that...differently or "odd"...and is why generally I just keep my trap shut (grin)...and suspect that this is an excellent piece of advice here, and forwhatever reason(s), I just don't feel "to shut my mouth". It's just like the parody on JJ's "HPB/JFK" revelation which while is accepted by all to have all "been in fun", and upon examining the original post I cannot find any cues/clues that indicated the actual intent. Now of course, I suspect that many would state and defend that "you'd just have to know JohnK", or simply "on the face" of the comparisons that one could only be left with the conclusion that "it was in jest". So be it, and "as is" I didn't have any other "clues" to logically (or otherwise) --nor received anything via an impression that could have been classified as a "soul confirmation". discern whether what was being offered was "in jest" or not. At first glance/impression, how many of you did not think this was "in jest"? I literally did not know what to think, and felt even confused, and chose to refrain from asking for a clarification, and simply waited to see how others responded to it. Part of me was relieved to discover that it was "interpreted" and therefore "told to us" that it was "in jest", and I noticed that a part of me, well that "felt weird" despite what I was "told" (by an outside other) I kept holding onto that "weirdness" until it was clarified to my satisfactiona short while ago when reading and contemplating the article as referenced in the subject of this message. Basically it goes to the "urge" to see or interpret a thing as "funny", and what causes that. We "laugh" at and/or for many reasons, to include something referred to as "gallows humor", meaning, that the evidence of "humor" or "laughing" isn't always a good indicator of what is or isn't "funny". All that can be said is that "it made you laugh", or that "it" evoked a "humorous response". Why am I able to look at this? Because I have spent a great deal of my life trying to figure out how it is, or why it is that I interpret so many things to be humorous when others did not, and vice versa. Also once you have an "out of cultural experience" with humor, you may not believe what I'm saying; i.e., seeing a bus crash in Thailand with people all "bent, hurt and bleeding", and seeing them all (literally) laughing at each other--along with many other examples. In this instance, I now wonder if the assignment of, or the (subconscious) motivation in all of our responses (the initial one followed by the bandwagoning effect-- with the exception of JJ) wasn't more towards something akin to a response to the fact that no one else has the ability (drive, desire, etc) to be able to produce "a thing" as did JJ, and so in response to that "vaccum of inability", subconsciously sought to "make light" of what otherwise might be something of importance and/or significance"--to diminish that light by casting another kind of "light" on something that "was not". I could even go as far as to make a similar assignment to JJ's response, in that he too fell under "the spell" of a kind of "false humility". So, and...what does this have to do with the referenced article? Again, the "tack" could be taken as both "funny", humorous and even entertaining. I can also see that it could be taken as serious lesson, and can see folks taking all sorts of "positions" and stances. And before you do, I ask that you consider this.... That while it appears that "the lesson" was that if the "roles" were reversed that the outcome would be the same as we have today...again, I am set "to wonder" if that is the "real lesson" that was intentionally or unintentionally meant. For instance, and taking either gender/role as the basis, it appears that NEITHER gender was successful in overcoming the "human obstacles" (in this case, stereotyping, discrimination, etc., etc.,)--in that the lesson was that "it didn't matter what gender filled these roles, the outcome was the same. whereas if either gender where to be substituted and the story told, it would seem to me that the a possible or potential "lesson" (or message) would be that one gender was "better" at dealing with these kinds of situations than another. However, the story as told/presented does not indicate this, in fact, and again, it only offers another example of "failure". So was this the point of the story and the motivation of the author? That neither gender is "capable"? Therefore, I would have to assume that even a "energy balanced mix" also would "fail"? So, then is the "moral" or "point" of the story that something else is needed besides "gender" in order for it to...or to have "worked"? Also, while I suspect that the intent of the author was to "gain favor" with one gender whilst giving "a lesson" and "a smile" to others; personally if I were female I'd be a bit miffed in that I would prefer to hear that my gender was "better" at it than the other, and would/might wonder at how this "representative" truly felt about my gender. ...I'm sorry...I forgot...it was "all in fun"... ...and so was what I just wrote...and so now grab your nose tightly and say, "nevermind"...(grin)... Ta-ta ya'll Bryan Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:00:19 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: Re: Asignment http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-e/de173.htm This is an address to pictures of the USS Eldridge (DE-173) and Uss Garfield Thomas (DE-193) More included in the site. Marylin Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:17:43 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED; et al Bryan wrote: At first glance/impression, how many of you did not think this was "in jest"? John: The story was "in jest", but the point to be made was serious. "The man [or woman] who has to ask [or demand] authority does not deserve to have it." Primero Xavier Harkonnen (a character in the Dune prequel -- back when the Harkonnens were good guys) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:33:26 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: (OT) CAN MEN BE ORDAINED; et al Agreed and understood, and as that had already seemingly been addressed, I was just trying to expand or offer my impressions (correct or otherwise) on it in other directions inclusive of the article in the subject line. ;-) Bryan wrote: At first glance/impression, how many of you did not think this was "in jest"? John: The story was "in jest", but the point to be made was serious. "The man [or woman] who has to ask [or demand] authority does not deserve to have it." Primero Xavier Harkonnen (a character in the Dune prequel -- back when the Harkonnens were good guys) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:14:31 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal Douglas Demko wrote: I tried promoting The Immortal in my community and took a lot of heat for it My community's understanding of metaphysical practices is very strict. In short, all metaphysical practices are forbidden and warrant expulsions. Fortunately, the directors favored my right to read a book. Mind if I ask where you live? Who are "the directors"? And why is it up to them to decide what your rights are? Expulsion from what? This sounds like "1984". (Or Utah in the 1970's. That's why I left.) It sounds like you are very brave to live there, wherever it is. It must seem strange that I would promoted your book in such an environment. Sounds like they could use it. This one reason is the fact that your teacher came to you in the flesh and taught many of the principles and values of the Brotherhood of Man. If the book had been the result of mediums, channels or automatic writing I would have put it down and moved on. Don't read anything by Blavatsky or Alice A. Bailey, then, if you are only judging the value of the teachings by how they were received. Individuals should consider that all these unseen spirits taking the control of someone else's body are breaking one of the most sacred laws of the true Brotherhood. A true Brother will never work through mediums or channels. Well, Alice A. Bailey was not exactly a medium or a channel, but she did receive telepathic communication from Master DK, and one gets the impression from reading him that he is indeed a "true brother". However, I agree that mediums mostly deal with astral entities or thought-forms. But true masters can communicate with mankind in a variety of ways. It doesn't always have to be face-to-face. The higher lives can work through the soul, and through intuition. Why use a sledge hammer when a fly swatter will do? Law of Economy? Also, the higher lives respect our free will and would never seek to impose teachings upon us against our will or give us teachings which we were not ready to receive. It is typical human behavior to become impressed by the site of a channel or medium, I have seen and heard many. Besides, who would listen to me, anyone can join a yahoo-group and send a message. But if I was channeling Ookybooky from planet Zuk you might take my every word seriously. That's called glamor. True seekers and true disciples will be able to discern light in the words of the teacher and confirm it within, regardless of whether the message came from a face-to-face messanger or was an inspired idea. I'm a frequenter of a couple of sites which make to claim to any kind of divine source for their ideas, yet when I read them their words touch my soul, make sense, and corroborate with other trusted teachers. John "Love is when you let someone be the way she is." Brad Blanton "Radical Honesty" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:51:40 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal In addition to JohnC's comments I would appreciate you sharing how it is that you "know" that John (The Immortal) in the book visited JJ "in the flesh"? To my understanding, I do not believe there is any prohibition against discussing anything from The Immortal here on/at this forum (?), and should this be the case, and/or you feel more comfortable doing so, I know you are invited to discuss this and other issues at theNewAgeSite BBS. Lastly, at theNewAgeSite you will discover that you can look up various topics by subject that have been discussed in the past here at the Keys, which also include a lot of subjects/topics right from The Immortal and even other or further teachings on the same subjects. I believe JJ already publishes his own book(s) (?) Just out of curiosity...in addition working "in the flesh", what are your beliefs as to the "only ways" (or approved methods) of how "The Brotherhood Of Man" are "to work through"? I ask as you indicate that you are somehow intimately aware of or in direct possession of this knowledge. I know who "The Brotherhood of Light" (not personally--grin), and am not aware of whom you speak when you use "The Brotherhood Of Man"? Regards Bryan Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:26:40 -0800 From: "The Kronke's" kronke@... Subject: Attention Keysters When you are replying to a post, please delete all that you are NOT responding to, please only include that to which you ARE responding to in your reply. Many thanks, Chrissie Editor of KOK Posts Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:22:00 -0500 From: "iam@... Subject: Re: Favor Per your request.... CREATING COMMUNITY PO Box 1116 Doylestown, PA 18901 215-345-6525 www.creatingcommunity.net creatingcommunity@comcast.net NEW VISIONS MAGAZINE PO Box 409 Hilltown, PA 18927 215-453-7371 www.newvisionsmagazine.com nvm@bellatlantic.net WISDOM of the heavens, earth, body, mind & spirit PO Box 267 Warrington, PA 18976 888-828-6670 WisdomPA@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:49:08 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal Bryan wrote: I believe JJ already publishes his own book(s) (?) If you are going to write a book and maintain control over the content, this is the only way to go. JJ is lucky (more likely good planning) to be able to do this. I have read and been quoting off and on from a book called "Radical Honesty" by Dr. Brad Blanton. You wouldn't think a publisher would have a problem with a book about "honesty" would you? But, this is RADICAL honesty. He forces the reader to ask themselves some very fundamental questions, and it makes people squirm. The only reason he got his book out unmangled was to publish it himself, and after it became popular enough, he was able to take it to a larger publisher and get it published without any changes. The quote below illustrates how we can get caught up in the glamor of having had a spiritual awakening and getting caught up in that awakening and not continuing to grow further. John "Getting born again feels real good for awhile, until we get to thinking that we are someone who got born again. That someone who got born again needs to die again, and get born again, again. And so forth." Dr. Brad Blanton "Radical Honesty" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:12:05 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Avatar of Coordination is not the Master R OT Susan: This is the person of whom John C. speaks, once referred to as the Avatar of Coordination, Master R. John: Not quite true, as I found out. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/externalisation/exte1129.html "This lesser Avatar works today as one of the senior Members of the Great White Lodge and is in close touch with the Christ, with the Manu and with the Lord of Civilization, the Master R -; " This is the quote from DK. It's not very clear because it seems to imply either that Master R is the lesser Avatar or he is the Lord of Civilization. I looked this up and according to the following quote and several others which I found, Master R is the Lord of Civilization and not necessarily the lesser Avatar. Then, if you reread the above article, the exact identity of the lesser Avatar has not been determined, as Susan mentioned. He could be the Christ, bu by the same token, he *could* be the Lord of Civilization (the Master R). Like she said, it's open at this time. But I thought the following was interesting information, so I'm posting it. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/discipleship2/disc2125.html "This shifting and interchange is taking place all the time, when, for instance, the Master R. assumed the task of Mahachohan or Lord of Civilization," I found 5 additional references to Master R as Lord of Civilization -- with the two above quotes making a total of 7 references. I also found this: " Master R. - Who is the Head of the third ray Ashram, and Who is also one of the Triangle of Forces which controls the greater Ashram of the Hierarchy Itself. " and "and the Master Rakoczi, who is the regent for Europe and America. " I wondered whether Master Rakoczi and Master R were one and the same. I found another site which said they were one and the same. There is also interesting information about several other masters including Jesus and Paul. http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/initiation/init1023.html The master RAKOCZI Dwelling Place: When head of the Seventh Ray He lived in the Carpathian mountains in central Europe and is probably still there. He is known as the Count. Description: He is a Hungarian, a somewhat small and spare man, who has smooth black hair and a pointed black beard. The Master Rakoczi was a prominent person at the Hungarian Court at one time and mention of Him can be found in old historical books. He was the Comte de St. Germain in one of His incarnations and was in the public eye earlier as Roger Bacon and later as Francis Bacon. He is the Regent for Europe and America and concerns Himself with racial affairs there and with the mental outgrowth in America and Australia. He is closely working with the two other major groups in preparing the way for the return of the Christ. He works esoterically through ceremonial and ritual, and with the esoteric or hidden side of organisations such as the Freemasons and Churches everywhere. When the Master Rakoczi, with His Ashram or group, shifted from the seventh Ray of Ceremonial to the third ray of Active Intelligence, the majority of those who had taken the second and third initiations went with Him. He is now the Head of the Third Ray, which is one of the three major rays and He is known as the Mahachohan, the Lord of Civilisation. He works primarily with the Masters of these three rays, but He is occupied with seventh ray energy which produces order on our planet. A Seventh Ray Master. The work of the Master in charge of this ray is to synthesise all the various aspects of the plan. He is given the general plan and then tries to approximate it to what is possible. He works to bring about beauty and order within the guidance of the overall plan. With His seventh ray groups of disciples He is also co-ordinating and guiding disciples of all rays regarding the right use of money. The minds of wealthy humanitarians and thoughtful financiers will be led forward, through their own receptivity to spiritual insight, to the idea of using money in the service of the Divine. Under the watchful eye of the Masters of the third ray, the seventh ray of order and ceremonial work is now coming into manifestation and prominence. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:56:17 EST From: BambieA@... Subject: Re: CAN MEN BE ORDAINED Bryan writes: "Interesting...no, not so much the story as I know there's a "word" which is used to describe this type of "approach/style"...can't think of it now. "I guess I just see a lot of "things" a bit differently, no not towards "being right" but just that...differently or "odd"...and is why generally I just keep my trap shut (grin)...and suspect that this is an excellent piece of advice here, and forwhatever reason(s), I just don't feel "to shut my mouth". "It's just like the parody on JJ's "HPB/JFK" revelation which while is accepted by all to have all "been in fun", and upon examining the original post I cannot find any cues/clues that indicated the actual intent. Now of course, I suspect that many would state and defend that "you'd just have to know JohnK", or simply "on the face" of the comparisons that one could only be left with the conclusion that "it was in jest"." Hi Bryan I wish I could spend the time reading all of your post. But you see, I have a serious problem with my eyes now and cannot read anything that is long all at one time. Would you mind trying to condense your writings? I really would like to read your WHOLE posts. Marylin Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:24:29 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: CAN MEN BE ORDAINED Wouldn't that be nice if I would/could do that? I can and have (not here) and it literally takes days of editing to ensure that I leave in ideas whilst taking out words; i.e., "boiling it down" as it were...almost all my yammerings here are "one time thru's". For me, the bottom line is that I "say it and move on"...and as I doubt that what I have to offer is all that important, I am neither willing nor able to take the time to "boil it down". Sorry--as the "time versus energy versus significance" quotient just doesn't seem to justify it at this point. No problem on my end...meaning, ya'll are invited to skip, delete or ignore as you see fit ;-) ...or you could just do your best to "look past" this shortcoming...ya know, like we all do with each other all the time here (grin)... I do apologize for the "formatting issues"...don't know what Wahzoo did with the code, and I used to never have the "wrapping problems" I now do and have unsuccessfully attempted to at least get my paragraphs to wrap right...no luck so far. My other choice of course is simply not to write/respond which may be coming soon regardless of anything to do with any of this. ;-) Ya'll take care now, ya'here? ;-) Bryan Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:31:32 -0500 From: lytwkr110@... Subject: more on Judas There is an interesting book out there that is called Judas and written by Taylor Caldwell for those people who wish to gain more insight into Judas' life pre-Jesus and during Jesus' time. Many blessings. Shar???n Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:00:37 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Demko douglasdemko@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal The reason I believe that John is real is because this method of teachers choosing and instructing disciples has been the traditional way for thousands of years. Some teachers are Saints, Adepts or even Masters. It has always been the case that the student can never prove he had a divine teacher come to him. You asked about The Brotherhood of Man, also known as "The Holy Spirit" and would like to know more about it? I could try and give you bits of what I know but it would be much more effective for you to read about it. The one book I recommend the most ..... The Ultimate Frontier.... gives a complete outline by several teachers, from their creation in Atlantis up until some of there students and initiates founded the United States of America. It also gives a great history lesson on Lemuria's rise and fall on the continent of MU. Everything from their stance on cosmology, economics, morality and qualification for initiation to the power and destrucive forces of the Dark ones is in this book. If you do read the book let me know and I will tell you the parts the Author took out of the latest addition. This is funny, I started out trying to promote The Immortal and now I am promoting another book. Anyhow, if I have a specific question about The Immortal how would you suggested I go about asking or addressing it? Douglas smithgiant smithgiant@yahoo.com wrote: In addition to JohnC's comments I would appreciate you sharing how it is that you "know" that John (The Immortal) in the book visited JJ "in the flesh"? To my understanding, I do not believe there is any prohibition against discussing anything from The Immortal here on/at this forum (?), and should this be the case, and/or you feel more comfortable doing so, I know you are invited to discuss this and other issues at theNewAgeSite BBS. Lastly, at theNewAgeSite you will discover that you can look up various topics by subject that have been discussed in the past here at the Keys, which also include a lot of subjects/topics right from The Immortal and even other or further teachings on the same subjects. I believe JJ already publishes his own book(s) (?) Just out of curiosity...in addition working "in the flesh", what are your beliefs as to the "only ways" (or approved methods) of how "The Brotherhood Of Man" are "to work through"? I ask as you indicate that you are somehow intimately aware of or in direct possession of this knowledge. I know who "The Brotherhood of Light" (not personally--grin), and am not aware of whom you speak when you use "The Brotherhood Of Man"? Regards Bryan Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:22:51 -0000 From: "pschutzy" schutzy11@... Subject: OT energy Hello, I've been pursuing the direction/concept/ideas of "energy&power" and "love&wisdom". (I've posted a few questions or on the BBS site and have had several helpful comments. However, I thought I'd make the "jump" to the Keys site and post this question over here. It may sound like a total "no brainer", but I'm one of the new ones. I've only been reading JJ's "stuff" for a few months. I'd really appreciate your insight.") Anyway,,, I knew I wasn't finding all that I was "looking for" but, as for what it ws that I was looking for, I really couldn't say. I just had that nagging feeling, like a finger tapping on my brain indicating to "use this" and keep going. Well, I have "found" my next question. How do I know Who (or What) the energy/power actually is that I contact when I am seeking the Divine? In meditation when I focus on the Light, the Soul, the Sun how do I know I am not contacting (focusing on) a false or illusionary "spirit/entity/energy instead of the Divine I am seeking? I know energy follows thought, so if my energy is the arrow and I am aiming for contact with God, how do I know I have "hit the mark"? I ask in respect to "energy" in two areas... 1) During meditation and visualization, energy is created, can be focused on a "direction", and "something" can "materialize/manifest/happen". 2) We can be the vehicles thru which God's Will is manifest. (Doesn't this result from me using my energy to "allow" God's energy to work through me?) I do want to use my energy for "good". God's Will not my will be done. But I also want to be sure I'm using this energy "correctly". I don't want to cause more harm than good. I know Soul Contact is extremely important, however, sometimes the "days are rather cloudy and I know the "Soul" is out there but I just cannot seem to feel/see it". (If you know what I mean.) Thanks Patty Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:12:50 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal Douglas Demko wrote: The reason I believe that John is real is because this method of teachers choosing and instructing disciples has been the traditional way for thousands of years. Some teachers are Saints, Adepts or even Masters. It has always been the case that the student can never prove he had a divine teacher come to him. This makes sense. And I bet that the majority of those here at the Keys would tend to agree with you and the method by which you arrived at "this knowing". I thought you "knew" via some other way or method. ;-) You asked about The Brotherhood of Man, also known as "The Holy Spirit" and would like to know more about it? I could try and give you bits of what I know but it would be much more effective for you to read about it. Okay, and yes I know "of" the HS, and as far as knowing more, well, I have enough difficulty in digesting what's presently on my plate (grin). Thanks for the reference and maybe others may find the other book useful. Personally I am on a path of "knowing" the HS via my soul...slow as it is ;-) Hadn't heard or come across this correspondence in terminology before. Doesn't mean that it isn't proper or hasn't been used...just that I hadn't come across it (grin). My only other comment/question as it pertains to the HS, "channelling and mediums", and being taught or receiving instructions and principles "face-to-face"; how is it that you reconcil this with the fact that the HS is not "physical" or "of flesh"? Meaning, how is it that the HS "teaches" if he/it/she/whatever is not able to "assume form"? I realize what the answer is that the HS "speaks thru" others, and then can only wonder what you believe are the "proper" and/or acceptable ways that this is done and/or recognized? This is funny, I started out trying to promote The Immortal and now I am promoting another book. We all have our own "promotions"...nothing amiss about that...and would HIGHLY suggest to dive into the Keys Archives at the NewAgeSite *before* you "promote" anything as this way you'll know if these topics have or haven't been covered by the teachings found there. Anyhow, if I have a specific question about The Immortal how would you suggested I go about asking or addressing it? Dunno, maybe others will have specific "formats" (other than include the word "OT"). Other than this I suspect all you have to do is ask or pose your question (?). As a footnote, please note that while the Keys is fairly tolerant of discussing a wide range of topics, that it (the forum) was essentialy set up as a classroom where JJ would (and does) "teach"--hence the request to place an "OT" in front of topics that are other than topics as prescribed by "the teacher". This also helps those involved in the archiving activites. Regards Bryan Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:13:30 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT promoting The Immortal The reason I believe that John is real is because this method of teachers choosing and instructing disciples has been the traditional way for thousands of years. Some teachers are Saints, Adepts or even Masters. It has always been the case that the student can never prove he had a divine teacher come to him. You didn't answer my question. How come DK taught Alice A. Bailey in a non- traditional way? Are we not to believe his words? And here is another question for you: As a student, why is it necessary for me to prove to you or anyone else that I had a divine teacher? But I can prove it to myself, and isn't that all that really matters? Another question: What if Jim Jones claimed that some master (say Master R, for the sake of argument) came to him in physical form and taught him face-to-face? Could we claim that Jim Jones was a true teacher who was truly instructed by Master R, just because of him claim that Master R came and taught him in the "traditional way"? This doesn't seem to me to be an adequate test, because it would be so easy to duplicate. All somebody has to do is make a claim, and because of the method, you would automatically accept it as being true. I don't believe you. There has to be something more. You don't sound that gullible. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:21:42 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT energy I know you said you have been studying the archives for quite some time, but have you read JJ's series on "Soul Contact"? This is a really good discussion of this subject, and I have seen the answers to your questions in these posts. http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/soul/contact1.php Here are a few of my ideas on the subject. If you sincerely want to serve and do what's right, you should have no doubts that you are contacting the true light. You shouldn't doubt yourself. But, if you are still wondering whether you have made contact or not, then you probably haven't, because when you do break through, you will know it. My advice would be to keep plugging confidently along. pschutzy wrote: How do I know Who (or What) the energy/power actually is that I contact when I am seeking the Divine? In meditation when I focus on the Light, the Soul, the Sun how do I know I am not contacting (focusing on) a false or illusionary "spirit/entity/energy instead of the Divine I am seeking? I know Soul Contact is extremely important, however, sometimes the "days are rather cloudy and I know the "Soul" is out there but I just cannot seem to feel/see it". (If you know what I mean.) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:27:49 -0600 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: OT Bryan's long posts Bryan, For my part, I don't mind reading your long posts, but that word wrap is really a bummer to try and read. What's Wahzoo? Some kind of a program are you using? Do you hit carriage return at the end of every line, or do you just let the text wrap until you come to the end of a paragraph? Have you tried Outlook Express or just typing into the Yahoo web page? I don't know the best answer. I sometimes use a text editor called Ultra-Edit, which wraps the text, but Yahoo still messes up posts until you get past the ad. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:26:34 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Bryan's long posts John Crane wrote: For my part, I don't mind reading your long posts, but that word wrap is really a bummer to try and read. Agreed and today was experimenting some more, yet still "it" (the code at Yahoo) when it hits certains "unseen whatevers" causes the text to wrap...even if I keep the lines "short". What's Wahzoo? Some kind of a program are you using? "wahzoo" is what Yahoo becomes when they do strange, unannounced stuff which they are famous for doing. Do you hit carriage return at the end of every line, or do you just let the text wrap until you come to the end of a paragraph? I do and/have done both...and know that I have been "typing" to/at Wazhoo for, uh.. let's see 6+ years, and this is the first time I've had problems (starting about a month or so again). I have tried doing the "endless line of text" routine when I respond and it messes up just as badly, as then it seems to pick up both the "hard returns" that it wants/needs to put in place along with any that "it" happens to "see" that I have left in...or not. Have you tried Outlook Express or just typing into the Yahoo web page? I'll have to pass on Outlook (grin), and use both NotePad and my browser text field when I write a "new" post, and post directly from the Yahoo website most of the time. It's my browser (and the code in it)...and am using an old OS as well and that's mostly why I don't/won't upgrade. So "you" (universal you) can blame me for not having a system that to which code is no longer compatible with (grin). Regards Bryan Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:36:05 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT energy Want to welcome Patty here at the Keys, and for those that don't know much about her, please know that's she's a real passoniate "go-getter" and it's been fun to see her grow in leaps and bounds over at the NewAgeSite BBS. I believe like many of us, Patty "knows" more than she thinks she "knows" (grin), and is still in the stages of "sorting it out" and putting "labels" on everything...and checking, double-checking to make everything's "just right" before launching herself forward. I will refrain from responding to her questions here as I'm sure one of the reasons she posted here was to "add a different flavoring" to the receipe she is concocting for herself. ;-) The bottom line is, is that she is "good folk", and gets my vote (for whatever it's worth) as one who is both sincere and "seeking the truth". So I ask that as you feel impressed to, to please jump in and help her in the best way you know how. Regards Bryan Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:04:31 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Avatars Hi everyone I have uploaded a 39 page document entitled 'The Role of the Avatars' to the files section here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ It explains the respective roles of the Avatars of Synthesis and Coordination and the Spirit of Peace using text and a few helpful diagrams. Love Glenys Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:16:42 -0500 From: "iam@... Subject: OT: Ooops. (was "Re: Favor") Sorry about sending those addresses to the whole list instead of just JJ. -- B Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:23:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Hanson hanson424@... Subject: Re: Favor Hi JJ, This is out of Southfield Michigan. It has been in publication since 1978. Hope this is helpful. Let us know if there is anything else we can do. Jennifer Hanson Tel:1-248-569-3888 E-mail: info@phenomenews.com fax: 1-248-569-4512 Phenomenews 18444 West 10 mile rd suite 105 Southfield Mi, 48075 J J Dewey wrote: I have a favor to ask the group. We are gathering the names and addressees of local new age/metaphysical newspapers and publications. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:37:29 -0700 From: J J Dewey jjd@... Subject: Methods of Revelation Douglas, I want to welcome you to the list. I see you are familiar with the Stelle Group and Ultimate Frontier. The Keys was founded by Rick Audette who was at one time very much into the group. If you do not know him I'm sure he will be glad to make your acquaintance. As far as how the brotherhood can make contact - if we use the old standby, the Bible as an example we have the following: (1) Through Physical visitation as you mention. Examples of this are the visitation of Jesus in the flesh to the apostles after the resurrection and God and his two associates who ate dinner with Abraham. (2) Through visions. Examples of this would be the visions of Daniel and John the Beloved. (3) Through angels (4) Through inspiration or revelation from higher intelligence, assumed to be God. This is the principle upon which most of the Bible was written. Since none of the prophets tell exactly how this inner voice of God came to them we can only conjecture on the subject. When they said thus saith the Lord were they quoting an actual voice, an inner impression from the Holy Spirit, mental telepathy from a Master, or their own imagination? Now fundamentalists believe that they all quoted the infallible voice of God, but they forget that these were merely fallible individuals just as we are today and in reality had varying degrees of contact with the divine. Whether we read the Bible, the Koran, Ultimate Frontier, Alice A. Bailey or any other writings each individual must test the words against the Holy Spirit within. Each must do this even if his contact with the Spirit is far from perfect. Why? Because eventually it will be perfect and toward this goal all must proceed, even at the risk of making some mistakes in the process. All the pure in heart will reach the goal. We must thus learn to trust the verification from the inside more than the outside, yet use trusted outside authorities as guideposts when the inner is not yet perfected. (5) In addition there are several controversial methods God used to communicate with man in the scriptures. Lying (A) God used lying spirits to communicate: In the days of Ahab, King of Israel, all the prophets were deceived except one. In that day there were 401 prophets. (See 2 Chron. 18:5-7. ) Ahab inquired of the 401 as to whether he should go to battle. The 400 knew the king would be angry if they prophesied anything but victory for the king, so their own hearts and fears greatly influenced the answer they received; however, one man, Micaiah, was not so influenced and he, being the last one called on for a prophecy, said, "As the Lord liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak." (2 Chron. 18:13) Then he proceeded to prophesy evil and disaster for the king which thing made the king angry. Then Micaiah explained why everyone was deceived except him: "I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the Lord said, Who shall entice Ahab, king of Israel, that he may go-up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another spake saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: Go out, and do even so. Now therefore the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets." (2 Chron. 18:18-22) Isn't it interesting, and yet somewhat frightening, that the Lord himself could and has sent a lying spirit to deceive Israel when their hearts desired the delusion? Will it happen again? It not only will happen, but it has been prophesied: "They receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth." (2 Thes. 2: 10-12) Read this chapter in reference and you will see that it deals with events just preceding the second coming. When has God sent strong delusion that people would believe a lie? If God sends the delusion, then it must be around the principle of revelation. This was the dialog amidst the 400 prophets of Ahab. Could God send strong delusion to the prophets, seers and revelators today? Why not? (B) God spoke to Balaam through the mouth of a dumb animal, an ass. (See Numbers chapter 22) What do these last two examples tell us? They tell us that God can use whatever means he sees fit to reveal truth or expose deception. This is why the final voice must be the Holy Spirit within for a true revelation may come through an unexpected source or person. As I've said many times the Masters and the Holy Spirit transmit their teachings through impression or telepathy. The lesser entities use direct voice or the standard process of channeling as it is called today. There is some truth in channeled material, but none of it must be taken as a final authority for mediums often receive such material from astral entities not as smart as the average member of this list. Some of them are deceptive and some sincere, but all must be checked against the soul. In the quest for truth, here is my advice. Search among the books and people that seem good to your soul and then run by all you learn by your soul. Keep that which registers. Discard those teachings do not bring inner response. Then put on the shelf those that stimulate, yet do not yet make complete sense. "People think I'm a poor nun. I'm actually running a multi-million dollar business. Helping people costs money." Mother Teresa Copyright 2004 by J J Dewey Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:05:06 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: OT Avatars - PS Glenys Lowery wrote: Hi everyone I have uploaded a 39 page document entitled 'The Role of the Avatars' to the files section here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/files/ Somehow I edited the source of this article out of my email. It's http://www.avatar-de-synthese.com Love Glenys Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:08:45 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Methods of Revelation J J Dewey wrote: (5) In addition there are several controversial methods God used to communicate with man in the scriptures. Lying (A) God used lying spirits to communicate: This was a very useful email JJ. Thanks :-) It reminded me of the Emerson quote below. God seems to get a lot of help with this method of communication as the worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves. Love Glenys Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:17:57 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: Methods of Revelation Thanks JJ...I needed that!!!!! ;-) Bryan Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:48:19 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Re: OT Bryan's long posts Bryan wrote: I'll have to pass on Outlook (grin), and use both NotePad and my browser text field when I write a "new" post, and post directly from the Yahoo website most of the time. There are free alternatives to notepad and there are free browser updates which you can download over the Internet. Give yourself a treat for the new year and upgrade your OS. If you have a Windows computer and are still using Windows 95, 98, or ME, you really ought to upgrade. Microsoft is dropping their support for these oldies, and XP is *much* more reliable. It's my browser (and the code in it)...and am using an old OS as well and that's mostly why I don't/won't upgrade. So "you" (universal you) can blame me for not having a system that to which code is no longer compatible with (grin). Don't you want people to read and benefit from your posts? We are all busy, and we all have a lot to read in our inbox, but if somebody rambles on and on and doesn't really say anything or the format is too difficult to read people will tend to skip it. You said that's OK with you, but if you don't care whether anybody read it, why bother to post in the first place? What's the purpose of sending a message out on a communications line if there is no intention for somebody to duplicate it on the other end? Sorry, I just had to be the one to ask. John Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:05:22 -0000 From: "Ruth" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Another revelation???? Hi everyone, I have been doing some research too! I finally discovered who Adolph Hitler reincarnated as. (Just a bit of fun, dont take it as a real revelation). To find out just who he is now, I left some information in the file section. It all makes sense now!!!!! ;-) Ruthe Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:18:18 -0000 From: "Ruthe" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Another revelation???? Ruth starryglow2@y... wrote: Hi everyone, I have been doing some research too! I finally discovered who Adolph Hitler reincarnated as. (Just a bit of fun, dont take it as a real revelation). To find out just who he is now, I left some information in the file section. It all makes sense now!!!!! ;-) Actually its easier to just put the link here instead: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story&u=/040116/482/catg14001162116 I compared a few things, and it was quite fascinating how they are similar in some ways. Ruth We are never truly alone, for in death exists the Oneness of God, and within God all love exists, all souls reunite, and all becomes ONE. There is no loss, only the loss of the illusion. Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:53:35 -0000 From: "smithgiant" smithgiant@... Subject: Re: OT Bryan's long posts Excellent points...and point taken. ...so for now, I'll just stop writing until I'm either willing or able to upgrade... Regards Bryan Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:17:46 -0000 From: "Ruthe" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT Bryan's long posts Bravo John, How long have you been reading this *rude truth* book. Obviously you are picking up all the right things to say and how to say them in a rude way. Not only have you tried to accused me of *being a man-hater with a huge chip on my shoulder*, you now have insulted Bryan by insinuating hes rambling on and on. So thats two people in one week John that you have been brutely truthfully rude too! At least I am emotional about my feelings and others feelings, you obviously are not in touch with your emotional side, or else you wouldnt be so rude to others on this list. Would you prefer that YOU and your EGO is the only one that posts at the Keysters list and we only listen to you and JJ. Are you JJs number two on the list? When did you place yourself at second in charge of teaching on this list along with JJ. I hardly even get through reading your posts anymore. No wonder people dont post anymore, they are too worried about what you are going to say about them, and how you are right (and rude)and they are not. Is it only me who is picking up on your attitude here?????? AussieRuth (who does not hate men). "I ought to go upright and vital and speak the rude truth in all ways" And this I have certainly done, and its about time someone stood up to the way you talk to others on this list. Ruthe Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:01:04 -0700 From: "Bridge Way" wayoutisin@... Subject: Re: Favor catalystmagazine.net Slc Allan Flint JJ wrote: I have a favor to ask the group. We are gathering the names and addressees of local new age/metaphysical newspapers and publications. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:25:00 -0700 From: "Bridge Way" wayoutisin@... Subject: Re: OT The Gathering in July I am interested. I will have to let you know when we have the money . Or we may camp out. Thanks Allan Susan wrote: Hello Keysters! Every year we meet together in person to be taught by J.J. Dewey and each other and have lots of fun to boot. This year it will be in Manti, UT (about 2 hours south of Salt Lake which is the closest major airport) and will be held July 16-18. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:41:52 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT energy Welcome aboard, Patty. Enjoy. Bryan wrote: Want to welcome Patty here at the Keys, and for those that don't know much about her, please know that's she's a real passoniate "go-getter" and it's been fun to see her grow in leaps and bounds over at the NewAgeSite BBS. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Demko douglasdemko@... Subject: Re: Methods of Revelation Dear JJ, Thank you for your warm welcome. Especially after the way I came barging in. My apologies, I have a tendency to be very out spoken. I appreciate your lesson and it has helped me put things into perspective concerning your views on mediums and channels. I have a lot of questions concerning your books. I respect the fact that I am not the only one in this group so I will ask one and you can answer when you have a chance. Several times John mentioned previous attempts that have failed. Did you ever get any further details about these attempts? Thank you, Douglas J J Dewey wrote: Douglas, I want to welcome you to the list. I see you are familiar with the Stelle Group and Ultimate Frontier. The Keys was founded by Rick Audette who was at one time very much into the group. If you do not know him I'm sure he will be glad to make your acquaintance. Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:23:03 -0600 From: "d.linen" linen@... Subject: Re: Re: OT Bryan's long posts Bryan, I don't believe that anyone wants you to stop posting here. I would far rather people post than that they do not post. You have had many interesting points in your posts over the months. Please reconsider, Bryan. Diane smithgiant wrote: Excellent points...and point taken. ...so for now, I'll just stop writing until I'm either willing or able to upgrade... Regards Bryan Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:41:13 -0000 From: "Ruthe" starryglow2@... Subject: Re: OT: Methods of Revelation Hi Douglas, Do you know where I can order a copy of that book you were talking about re: Atlantis and Lemuri times???? Some of those books are not available in Australia, and I usually have to order them from overseas. Thanks AussieRuthe (The fiesty one!) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:30:01 -0000 From: "John Crane" jcrane2@... Subject: Philadelphia Experiment FYI, I am composing this post in Notepad Version 5.1, Windows XP. This is not my editor of choice, (if you could even consider this piece of software an editor), but I am using it to show that a person can write a post without extraneous carriage returns and line feeds. After I compose this, I will paste the text into the textarea control in the browser (IE 6.0). If you see any extra line-feeds at the beginning of this post, it is because Yahoo! does some funny wrapping around the obligitory advertizement. While (or whilst, if you are into that sort of thing), typing, I don't press the Enter key until I come to the end of the paragraph, and then I press it twice. I write with the intention that my ideas will be read and duplicated (i.e. understood, though not necessarily agreed with). Therefore, I try to write in a format which is easy to read. I might sometimes fall short of this ideal, but at least that is my intention. This was the assignment. To study several websites which discussed the Philadelphia Experiment (PX), then pick two pro and two con, study them in detail and state our conclusions regarding the following: (1) Did a supernatural event occur? (2) Are there real witnesses? Are they telling the truth? (3) Was time (or dimensional) travel involved? (4) Any other interesting insights. I read a number of websites on all sides of this isses, and I even watched my copy of the movie. Great science fiction, but the emphasis should be on fiction, not science. It was enjoyable entertainment, but I wish Hollywood could restrain itself from injecting a love interest in every movie. After all, I want to see the hero save the world as we know it, not make love to some woman in the back of a horse trailer in the middle of Nevada. That being said, I read a number of sources. When I do research like this, I am more interested in first-hard accounts. I don't really care what somebody said about it 30 years after the fact. So, while I read both first-hand accounts and derivitive accounts, I placed the greater weight on those who were actually present, or who claimed to be present. Also, when doing research like this, I go with the simplest plausable explanation. Why spin a complicated explanation when a simpler explanation explains the facts just as well? I also read a number of websites which commented on the background and credibility of the supposed first-hand witnesses. Without restating the facts (and fiction) surrounding the PX, I'll get right to my conclusions. I don't believe there is sufficient evidence that a supernatural event occurred in connection with PX. I'm not ruling out whether such events did and can occur, and I'm not ruling out that the military ever attempted such experiments. For example, several individuals have stated that the military has done experiments in mind control, teleportation, and remote viewing, and I have no doubt that this has occurred, but in this case, the evidence simply isn't there. In those days, the theories of quantum mechanics and relativity were new and exciting. The government was conduction secret experiments with atomic and nuclear energy. Radar and sonar were relatively new and exciting technologies. We know that Einstein, Tesla, and von Neumann, and other prominent scientists were involved in this research. This research must have begin long before our involvement in WWII. Between the time we were drawn into the war by Roosevelt in 1941 (let's discuss that theory sometime!) and the PX in 1943, there was not that much time to develop these scientific weapons, so the research must have begun much earlier, and the facts seems to bear this out. So-called witnesses always begin their stories by dazzling their audience with the achievements of these scientific luminaries, but when it comes time to explain how their their theories were actually applied to produce supernatural events, they always brush by them. The fact is, they can't even explain the scientific theories, let along describe how they were applied. I believe the Navy account that it was conducting research in rendering a ship invisible to magnetic mines, just developed by the Germans. They may have even been working on anti-radar detection devices, as some sources claim. The govt openly admits to having this tech now, but who knows how long they have been working on it in secret? Perhaps the experiments went awry, with unforeseen side effects, but we don't know that. And the fact that the government has attempted to cover this up and has removed the pages from the ship's log on the dates that the PX was said to have occurred, does not in and of itself prove that anything supernatural occurred. Simply developing an anti-magnetic tech and conducting research on it would be enough to justify the secrecy associated with this event. After all, this was war, and there were spies about. As for the witnesses, there is supposedly one witness Carl Allen from Philadelphia who claims he saw the ship disappear, but there is no witness that the ship appeared in Norfolk. There is supposedly a newspaper article, but that cannot be verified. Mr. Allen wrote in response to a UFO book published in the 1950's. Later some guy named Al Bielek came forward, but some of his stories associated with this go way beyond credibility. For example, he talks about his consciousness being removed and transferred to another man, etc. I wrote him off as a nut case. The movie was a good illustration of time travel, but I never saw any evidence to convice me that it actually happening in the PX. I read of accounts where there was sime sort of time vortex set up between Philadelphia and Montauk, Long Island (NOT Nevada as the movie stated), and I even read an explanation that TWA Flight 800 was broadcasting on the same frequency as used by HAARP and the European equivalent, and got caught in an anomaly created by them and by the residual effects from Montauk and PX and this somehow sparked the fuel explosion aboard the plane. Here is another, simpler explanation of this incident which the government would be equally happy to cover up: terrorist attack or military mistake. Any other interesting insights. None. John "Power resides in persons, not in techniques." Dr. Brad Blanton, "Radical Honesty" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:56:57 -0800 (PST) From: Robin Kennon rjkennon@... Subject: Archives are up to date again! Hi fellow Keysters, First of all, let me apologize for allowing the JJ archives at The New Age Site to get so far behind! Holidays, birthdays, and life homeschooling three active children sort of snowed me under for awhile! Anyway, I've managed to dig out, and actually catch up on the archives.........at least until JJ posts again! So check them out at: http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey/archives/default.php?idx=1 Thanks for your patience and understanding as I sometimes fall behind! Love and light to all, Robin Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:31:13 -0000 From: "pschutzy" schutzy11@... Subject: Re: OT energy John Crane wrote: I know you said you have been studying the archives for quite some time, but have you read JJ's series on "Soul Contact"? This is a really good discussion of this subject, and I have seen the answers to your questions in these posts. Thanks John, Actually I've only been reading JJ for about 2 or 3 months. And, yes, I have read Soul Contact, and, did read it again last night. Perhaps, I'm being too dense and can't see the simple Truths involved, but something is "bugging" me about the use of energy in respect to meditation & visualization. It seems I am missing some "connection" that everyone else doesn't "have a problem" with. And, in Soul Contact it states.... "He who has soul contact will have a sense that something is off (adisturbance in the force) when he is going in the wrong direction but when going the right direction there will be a sense of fullness or completeness and a knowing you are doing the right thing." ...and..."If a teaching just seems to make no sense do not trust it until it does make sense." I do not "have a problem" with Soul Contact. I see the Truth and understand it (as much as I can at this stage of my evolution). I know the Still Small Voice and I know the importance of being still (as in "be still and know that I am God"). My issue is with meditation & visualization. Using love and wisdom with the use of energy and power. (I know the obvious answer is to use Soul Contact.) Perhaps, I need to be more specific. I'm not coming from a Christian point of view with my question(s), but, from WICCA (the old religion of Paganism). I studied a few years in this area. During this period I became open enough to start considering; karma, reincarnation, astrology, God/Godess(Father/Mother), visualization/meditation, and "life" in all things. (I am not promoting WICCA, just stating I learned some valuable Truths during this period of my life.) But, throughout this time, something didn't (and still doesn't) "sit right" with me about the manipulation of energy. This manipulation of energy (visualization/meditation) I refer to "bothers" me in two areas. 1) This directional use of energy seemed very materialistic. 2) I was uncomfortable using the "energy" in a spirital aspect. (The invoking of energy/power from Spiritual Entites, in whom I didn't feel a "sense of fullness and completeness with".) So, now when I understand how important the True use of meditation and visualization is, I question myself and the source of this energy. Thanks Patty (Oh, Bryan, I always appreciate your point of view.) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:27:29 -0600 From: "melvab" melvab@... Subject: Re: OT energy Hi Patti, You ask some of the same questions I've seen alive in my life as of late, Patti. I'll share my views with you on energy: I believe there is a Universal Energy present in the cosmos. I believe this energy imbues all layers and levels of life. I believe this energy can be directed for the highest good of one and/or all. I believe the universe is an abudant place and the energy that surrounds, penetrates is never depleted. It may change form, but it is never used up entirely. (Unlike fossil fuels ;-) ) This energy is available to us all, on one level or another, and can be directed by any one of us. In energy work, intent is everything. A person needs to be very clear within. Many imperfections can come to the surface for healing. I have found that distressing at times: preferring to have instantaneous healing without the travails of soul searching. ;-) Is it wrong to direct Universal Energy for purely personal needs, wants, desires? I don't know if it would wrong so much as knowing that as we sow, so shall we reap. Therein lies the crux of the matter which comes back to intent, intent, intent. Being mindful, being centered (those are on on my "must do" list lol) and also having the purest intent possible is very important imo. Melva Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 18:51:16 -0000 From: "Judes" judesr1@... Subject: Philadelphia Experiment assignment I researched the Philadelphia Experiment topic about 15 years ago. I saw the controversial movie, `The Philadelphia Experiment', and attended a lecture by Al Bilek at a UFO conference center in Dallas, Texas all in the late 1980's. After moving to the NW US in 1990, I, periodically continued to read articles and books, and attend another lectures given by Al Bilek, Preston Nichols, and Duncan Cameron. This all seemed fascinating at first but did not produce fruit in a spiritual way or advance my evolution in any way. Alister Crowley's name and influence upon the three mentioned above was mentioned in both lectures. Some of the topics associated with aliens and UFOs and other psychic and paranormal phenomena were prevalent within the new age community of which I participated. After making a reconnection with my soul and the Over-soul of the Brotherhood in 1999, I then reassessed many of the materials that I had absorbed during my pre-enlightenment period of seeking; a time when I was open-minded but nonetheless na???ve, unassuming, and gullible; which are not traits that serve one well within the spiritual communities where dark masks as light to detract seekers of light from the true pathways of the Brothers of Light. I am not sure if there were negating articles to the veracity of the claims made by Bilek, Nichols, and Cameron at the time I began reassessing; but I took all the information on the topic that I researched beforehand; which was all pro for the event having occurred; and ran them by my soul. By seeking illumination first-hand by beseeching God for answers and clarity then the controversial topics can be seen through a whole other light. To become enlightened or illuminated one need only seek first the Kingdom of God(communion) and then the corners of darkness can be seen. The pieces fell together and I received insight on how the dark brothers operate within the UFO info community and how they are able to muck with na???ve and beginning light seekers. Are there aliens, grays, or reptilians? Yes, alien in that they are non-human life-forms. These life-forms are not human but are either elementals like the individual and group swellers , or devic life- forms. Those of evil orientation or who hold agendas of ill-will are devils (evil devas) or demons in the biblical sense. The Brothers of Light do not require space-ship travel. I read over both of the links you posted, JJ. They seem to agree with my assesments. Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Demko douglasdemko@... Subject: Re: Re: OT: Methods of Revelation Dear AussieRuthe, Do a www search "The Ultimate Frontier" and you should find the book online at amazon.com. Click here: Amazon.com: Books: The Ultimate Frontier http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0963225200/002-3297668- 6070452?v=glance Douglas Ruthe starryglow2@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Douglas, Do you know where I can order a copy of that book you were talking about re: Atlantis and Lemuri times???? Some of those books are not available in Australia, and I usually have to order them from overseas. Thanks AussieRuthe (The fiesty one!) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:57:24 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment Dear John, I, too, have read pros and cons about this experiment and am left with a big question mark in my mind. Sorry, but I can't make any decision about this and must just remain open to see what happens. Ruth W John C: FYI, I am composing this post in Notepad Version 5.1, Windows XP. This is not my editor of choice, (if you could even consider this piece of software an editor), but I am using it to show that a person can write a post without extraneous carriage returns and line feeds. After I compose this, I will paste the text into the textarea control in the browser (IE 6.0). If you see any extra line-feeds at the beginning of this post, it is because Yahoo! does some funny wrapping around the obligitory advertizement. While (or whilst, if you are into that sort of thing), typing, I don't press the Enter key until I come to the end of the paragraph, and then I press it twice. I write with the intention that my ideas will be read and duplicated (i.e. understood, though not necessarily agreed with). Therefore, I try to write in a format which is easy to read. I might sometimes fall short of this ideal, but at least that is my intention. This was the assignment. To study several websites which discussed the Philadelphia Experiment (PX), then pick two pro and two con, study them in detail and state our conclusions regarding the following: (1) Did a supernatural event occur? (2) Are there real witnesses? Are they telling the truth? (3) Was time (or dimensional) travel involved? (4) Any other interesting insights. I read a number of websites on all sides of this isses, and I even watched my copy of the movie. Great science fiction, but the emphasis should be on fiction, not science. It was enjoyable entertainment, but I wish Hollywood could restrain itself from injecting a love interest in every movie. After all, I want to see the hero save the world as we know it, not make love to some woman in the back of a horse trailer in the middle of Nevada. That being said, I read a number of sources. When I do research like this, I am more interested in first-hard accounts. I don't really care what somebody said about it 30 years after the fact. So, while I read both first-hand accounts and derivitive accounts, I placed the greater weight on those who were actually present, or who claimed to be present. Also, when doing research like this, I go with the simplest plausable explanation. Why spin a complicated explanation when a simpler explanation explains the facts just as well? I also read a number of websites which commented on the background and credibility of the supposed first-hand witnesses. Without restating the facts (and fiction) surrounding the PX, I'll get right to my conclusions. I don't believe there is sufficient evidence that a supernatural event occurred in connection with PX. I'm not ruling out whether such events did and can occur, and I'm not ruling out that the military ever attempted such experiments. For example, several individuals have stated that the military has done experiments in mind control, teleportation, and remote viewing, and I have no doubt that this has occurred, but in this case, the evidence simply isn't there. In those days, the theories of quantum mechanics and relativity were new and exciting. The government was conduction secret experiments with atomic and nuclear energy. Radar and sonar were relatively new and exciting technologies. We know that Einstein, Tesla, and von Neumann, and other prominent scientists were involved in this research. This research must have begin long before our involvement in WWII. Between the time we were drawn into the war by Roosevelt in 1941 (let's discuss that theory sometime!) and the PX in 1943, there was not that much time to develop these scientific weapons, so the research must have begun much earlier, and the facts seems to bear this out. So-called witnesses always begin their stories by dazzling their audience with the achievements of these scientific luminaries, but when it comes time to explain how their their theories were actually applied to produce supernatural events, they always brush by them. The fact is, they can't even explain the scientific theories, let along describe how they were applied. I believe the Navy account that it was conducting research in rendering a ship invisible to magnetic mines, just developed by the Germans. They may have even been working on anti-radar detection devices, as some sources claim. The govt openly admits to having this tech now, but who knows how long they have been working on it in secret? Perhaps the experiments went awry, with unforeseen side effects, but we don't know that. And the fact that the government has attempted to cover this up and has removed the pages from the ship's log on the dates that the PX was said to have occurred, does not in and of itself prove that anything supernatural occurred. Simply developing an anti-magnetic tech and conducting research on it would be enough to justify the secrecy associated with this event. After all, this was war, and there were spies about. As for the witnesses, there is supposedly one witness Carl Allen from Philadelphia who claims he saw the ship disappear, but there is no witness that the ship appeared in Norfolk. There is supposedly a newspaper article, but that cannot be verified. Mr. Allen wrote in response to a UFO book published in the 1950's. Later some guy named Al Bielek came forward, but some of his stories associated with this go way beyond credibility. For example, he talks about his consciousness being removed and transferred to another man, etc. I wrote him off as a nut case. The movie was a good illustration of time travel, but I never saw any evidence to convice me that it actually happening in the PX. I read of accounts where there was sime sort of time vortex set up between Philadelphia and Montauk, Long Island (NOT Nevada as the movie stated), and I even read an explanation that TWA Flight 800 was broadcasting on the same frequency as used by HAARP and the European equivalent, and got caught in an anomaly created by them and by the residual effects from Montauk and PX and this somehow sparked the fuel explosion aboard the plane. Here is another, simpler explanation of this incident which the government would be equally happy to cover up: terrorist attack or military mistake. Any other interesting insights. None. John "Power resides in persons, not in techniques." Dr. Brad Blanton, "Radical Honesty" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:16:35 -0000 From: "Kadijeh Awick" khadeejah12@... Subject: Re: Methods of Revelation Dear JJ Thank you for this teaching - it resonates within me. There is much to contemplate here and yet, it has brought me much needed confirmation within myself.....especially the final paragraph as this is the 'process' I have been guided to use over the years in my own search. I have a few books 'on the shelf' that have stimulated as you put it, yet not made complete sense to me....I have always felt that it was my own inability to 'receive' the revelations contained within, due to my own point of development on the spiritual path. Since joining the Keys and studying with the group, I have revisited certain books and find that I now perceive depths hitherto unavailable to me. Namaste Khadeejah J J wrote: Douglas, In the quest for truth, here is my advice. Search among the books and people that seem good to your soul and then run by all you learn by your soul. Keep that which registers. Discard those teachings do not bring inner response. Then put on the shelf those that stimulate, yet do not yet make complete sense. "People think I'm a poor nun. I'm actually running a multi- million dollar business. Helping people costs money." Mother Teresa Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:09:44 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT energy Hi Patty, Thanks for joining on our conversations here and posing an interesting question. If I understand you correctly your issue concerns the wrong use of energy, particularly in meditation. Maybe because of your Wicca background you have a greater appreciation than most of the importance of directing energy wisely. Most people on the spiritual path have concentrated on discovering and applying the matter and consciousness aspects of reality and are just only starting to understand the energy aspect. This quest to understand energy seems to me to be running parallel with our turning our attention to understanding the Will aspect of God. This is because we have to be mature to handle any knowledge that affords power ie knowledge about energies, forces and will, and the energy and will aspects are so closely linked. I think you are quite right to be concerned about how we wield energy in meditation as it does not take too much thought to lead us to agree with DK that in the early stages of our growth, we are all unconscious black magicians. The quest is to transform ourselves into conscious white magicians and we can only do this by discovering and applying the Laws of Nature (or God or the Universe etc depending on your preferred terminology). The application of these Laws is a hit and miss affair and inevitably we make mistakes because we are not permitted the luxury of learning all there is to learn and then applying the knowledge. Rather the rules are that we don't get any further knowledge until we apply what we know. Worse still, if we don't apply what we know, the little we have will be taken from us and we end up in a worse state than when we started (ref. Parable of the Talents). So we are forced to learn how to wield energy wisely. First, for countless incarnations we use it to satisfy our own selfish desires in contravention of the universal laws. However, we discover that sooner of later the Lords of Karma extract payment for this misuse of energy. Then as we grow in consciousness we start to gain a rudimentary understanding of the Law and discover our soul, if only theoretically in the first instance, and desire to make contact with it. We learn that the main way to establish this contact is to serve others and we desire to do this with all our hearts, if only, once again quite selfishly, to facilitate our own evolution. We discover that a great way to serve others this is by regular and purposeful meditation and we tackle the job with great hopes that we will be able to achieve something useful. But we find we're ill-equipped for the task. We can't concentrate or focus, we don't know the rules of meditation and nothing seems to happen. Many give up at that point. But that those that persevere inevitably have to face the problem of how to use the energy that is generated by meditation. We know we have to use it unselfishly but what exactly does that mean? Two examples to underlie this problem: The first relates to W.W.II. It is well known in esoteric circles that well-meaning disciples meditated to send light and love to Hitler and his colleagues in an effort to encourage them to turn away from the evil path they were pursuing. But the effort had the opposite effect and the energy that was sent actually empowered the Axis forces in their quest for world domination. (JJ has written about this if anyone wants to search the archives.) The second example is one that is closer to home. We see a friend or family member who is going through all sorts of trauma and difficult circumstances and acting out of love and compassion we want to help. So we send light in the hope that the circumstances will ease. But little do we know that it was an influx of light that caused the crisis in the first place and the last thing needed is more light as the loved one goes through a soul initiated growth experience. So our well-meaning efforts cause more problems for our loved one. So what to do? We instinctively know we cannot give up meditating and we are compelled to serve according to the highest that we know despite the fact that we will make mistakes. We come to realise that all that is required by our souls and the Hierarchy is effort rather than results and mistakes are not failures. As George Bernard Shaw said, ??a life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent doing nothing or as someone else said, ??Try again. Fail again. Fail better. And in making the effort ?? and mistakes ?? we learn more about the Laws of God and the manipulation of energy. We strengthen the link to our souls and begin to understand God's will in situations. In short, we become more effective in our work and find that without even really noticing it, we have transformed ourselves from unconscious black magicians into conscious white magicians. We find that as we follow the highest that we know, we begin to purposefully direct energies to the service of life in accordance with God's Plan for Humanity. You mentioned, Patty, that you do not feel comfortable ??invoking of energy/power from Spiritual Entities, in whom I didn't feel a "sense of fullness and completeness with. I'm not sure what entities you invoke, or think you are expected to invoke, in your meditation. Generally for me, my meditation consists of linking with my soul in the best way I can and dispersing the energies I draw down into areas of perceived need (identified according to the highest I know). I also do some group work with various groups with whom I am affiliated, on both the inner and outer levels. But in the first instance, one doesn't need to ??feel an affinity with the soul to start meditating given that most meditators know they have a special connection with a higher being (or of they don't know it, then at least they accept it as a working hypothesis to test or else they wouldn't be bothered with meditating in the first place). Then others can act ??as if (see the ??As If meditation given by DK in the Files section in the DK's meditations folder, if you're interested in looking at this technique. In fact, it's a great meditation for anyone seeking to identify more with, and as, their souls.) So to conclude, life is really just an experimentation with energies and forces. As we learn the Laws of God (through trail and error) our experiments become less random and more targeted with a greater degree of success. When we make mistakes, we know (and have faith) we will find out one way or another. It is not the mistakes that are important but rather the effort we expend and our motives for wielding the energy in the first place. If we follow the highest that we know, we cannot fail, even when it appears we do. Love Glenys pschutzy wrote: This manipulation of energy (visualization/meditation) I refer to "bothers" me in two areas. 1) This directional use of energy seemed very materialistic. 2) I was uncomfortable using the "energy" in a spirital aspect. (The invoking of energy/power from Spiritual Entites, in whom I didn't feel a "sense of fullness and completeness with".) So, now when I understand how important the True use of meditation and visualization is, I question myself and the source of this energy. Thanks Patty Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:45:16 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: Re: Re: OT energy Glenys Lowery wrote: We come to realise that all that is required by our souls and the Hierarchy is effort rather than results and mistakes are not failures. I thought I should expand on this point in case by stressing the matter of effort, I am in danger of misleading people about results. Of course, successful results are important but these results cannot come about except by the application of persistent, constructive effort. So in the first instance, that is what we should be concentrating on rather than hoping to see the results of our service. As Paul stated in one of his letters, 'one man sows, another reaps'. Sometimes we do not see the results of our service work (but that does not mean to say there aren't any) but we can always know the effort we have expended. If it is wasted or misplaced effort made in good faith, we will find out soon enough and be given the opportunity to correct our action, with no blame. If we persist, knowing our efforts are incorrect eg using energies to manipulate another person, we are dealing with a whole new ball game. Love Glenys Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:03:55 +1300 From: Glenys Lowery isis@... Subject: OT Prime Directives From Discipleship in the New Age I - Talks to Disciples - Part VII pp.65-6 Another question might here arise: Are there any specific and brief rules which should be obeyed? The following might be given, but I would remind you that it is what you are that counts in this work more powerfully than anything else. The controlling factor is harmlessness in thought and word; the practice of this, with proper observation, will greatly help all of you. Next comes a refusal to think unkindly or with criticism; this is essential in connection with those whose minds you seek to impress. Silence, complete and unbroken as to what you are doing, is also a vital factor; the utterance of words in connection with this most subtle and confidential work (or even discussion of the work with a fellow-disciple) can shatter the delicate thought-form which you are attempting to build. It can render the work of weeks abortive. A balanced attitude in relation to those in power throughout the world must also be cultivated: they need above all else the inspiration which can be brought to them from the Hierarchy. I would ask you, therefore, to practice purging the content of your minds of all critical and unkind thoughts so that you can achieve an attitude of divine indifference to the ephemeral and fleeting personalities and to the chaos everywhere to be seen and so endeavor to tune in on the attitude of the Hierarchy. This involves the emphasis of the consciousness-aspect and the careful observation of all that goes on beneath the surface - awakening, arousing and stimulating to a pronounced mental activity, the hitherto unconscious masses. The events which are happening in every country are bringing this about with much rapidity; humanity is coming alive and its consciousness is awakening to the subjective values. The Hierarchy is sore beset to meet humanity's emerging need of guidance. The sensitivity of the human race (as the result of economic insufficiency, of war, anxiety and pain) is becoming so acute that we who work on the inner side must hasten to impress sensitive, awakening psychics* with the right impression. Hence our effort to create these groups, and to use people like yourselves who are (theoretically) harmless but actually full of prejudice and hasty judgments. We have to use the material which lies to hand and are greatly handicapped at all times. * DK is not referring to lower psychism here. Elsewhere in DINA I he describes psychism comprising six characrterisitics as follows: 1. Intuitional response to ideas. 2. Sensitiveness to the impression which some member of the Hierarchy may seek to make upon the mind of the disciple. It is for this reason that I am training you to utilise the Full Moon contact. 3. Quick response to real need. You had not regarded this as one of the psychic powers, my brother, had you? I refer not here to a solar plexus reaction but to heart knowledge. Ponder on this distinction. 4. Right observation of reality upon the soul plane. This leads to right mental perception, to freedom from illusion and glamour and to the illumination of the brain. 5. Correct manipulation of force, involving, therefore, an understanding of the types and qualities of force and their right creative weaving into service upon the outer plane. 6. A true comprehension of the time element, with its cyclic ebb and flow and the right seasons for action a most difficult psychic power to master, my brothers, but one which can be mastered through the use of patient waiting and the elimination of hurry. Love Glenys Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:27:05 -0800 From: "Ruthangel" ruthangel@... Subject: Re: Re: OT energy Dear Glenys, Trying to be the best person we can be is the right way to go. If we sow many things and do not reap; don't worry. What goes around comes around. You may not receive from the same person you gave to, but good will come back to the donor one way or another. No effort is lost. God will not be mocked and he keeps track of it all. Ruth wrote: Hi Patty, Thanks for joining on our conversations here and posing an interesting question. If I understand you correctly your issue concerns the wrong use of energy, particularly in meditation.