2000 - WEEK 50

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20049
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Law - Order - Glory
   I did some Christmas shopping today and as I was driving through the congested traffic I was 
thinking of Jahnihah's argument that we do not need traffic rules.
   I thought to myself "thank God there are stop signs, lights, lane dividers etc. To watch this mob 
drive from their heart only would be madness."
   You guys are saving me time by responding to Jahnihah for you often speak as I would. I 
enjoyed the wisdom of Benjamin, Larry, Travis, Sharri and others. As usual I will ad several 
remarks.
   First I have a difficult time understanding why Jahnihah is such a big believer in lawlessness 
when Joseph Smith and the Mormon Scriptures, of which he is a big believer, stress the 
importance of law.
   Whether you are a Mormon or not their scriptures give an interesting thought on law.
   Joseph taught that there are three kingdoms of glory awaiting us apparently after death. He 
highest is the celestial which has glory comparable to the sun. The second is the Terrestrial which 
has a glory similar to the moon and the third called the Telestial has a glory like the stars. Where 
the glory is one in the two higher, the glory is diverse in the lowest is "as one star differs from 
another in glory."
   Now the interesting thing is that it is clearly written that one must abide "law" to enter any one of 
these kingdoms. Note the following scripture:
   "For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory. 
"And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory. "And 
he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is 
not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of 
glory." D&C 88:22-24
   Now there is the great principle revealed here that sheds light whether you are a Mormon or 
not. Note that it says that if one cannot abide the celestial law then he must bypass that kingdom, 
but if he cannot abide the law of the second kingdom then he cannot enter that kingdom either. 
Finally he must abide the law of the lowest kingdom to even stay there.
   Now the interesting thing about this third kingdom is that the Mormons are taught that it is the 
earth where we now live. So what does this mean?
   It means that if one cannot even abide by the basic laws which govern men here on the earth 
"he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory."
   Joseph taught that there is a fourth kingdom which has no glory, not even the glory of the stars, 
very similar to the Eighth Sphere as taught by the Theosophists. He tells us that those who go 
there are a law unto themselves. This is a totally different idea than following the Holy Spirit but 
these characters reject the Holy Spirit and only follow the impulses of the lower self, or self 
interest, which in the end is no law producing no order and thus not harmonizing with any glory.
   Now let us continue quoting the scripture:
   "And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and 
perfected and sanctified by the same. That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but 
seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, 
neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
   "All kingdoms (this would include human) have a law given; And unto every kingdom is given a 
law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. All beings who abide not in 
those conditions are not justified." D&C 88:34-36;38-39
   Now examine the words of Christ:
   "Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say 
unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God 
so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not 
much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?" Matt 6:28-30
   The disciples were probably very puzzled over this statement. I can just see Thomas scowling 
with the thought: "How can you compare ordinary lilies to the great glory which belong to 
Solomon? Has the Master forgot the glory of the gold, the wealth, the art, the temple and the 
adulation of the people which belonged to the great King?"
   The disciples did not appreciate the words of Jesus in that day because they lacked the 
common microscope of today. When a Lily or any other plant of the field is magnified 100, 1000, 
or 100,000 times greater and greater glory is revealed.
   How is the glory revealed?
   It is revealed through the tremendous order which is manifest in the plant kingdom.
   And what produces the order which creates vehicles for plant and all other lives on the earth?
   Answer: It us the following of law. These little lives have consciousness and have 
comprehended the law which produces order which produces glory and they faithfully follow it, 
thus laying the foundation for even greater life which is you and me.
   Then came the great promise from the Master:
   "Shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"
   When we look at a lily under high magnification we see an order and glory far surpassing 
anything that humanity has accomplished, yet the promise is that we will in the end have "much 
more" glory than this. Mankind will eventually follow molecular and cellular orders until the day 
comes that his organization and glory will surpass the glory of the lilies of the field.
   One can only appreciate this promise if he can comprehend the glory which does indeed now 
exist in the microcosmic world of the simple plant kingdom. But we cannot at this time 
comprehend the glory which is yet to come. We must experience it to understand.
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20050
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: Good and evil
   Kathy wrote: "I don't believe that God can release one electron of energy that is anything less 
than the total perfection of God." 
   But is God absolutely perfect as many Christians seem to hold? Or is God "becoming", and 
therefore only "relatively" perfect? What are the implications of an absolutely perfect, and static 
God as is usually portrayed in this NIV translation of Exodus 3:14:
   God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. [2] ...
   The NIV translation has an alternative translation (notice the footnote [2] above where I left off 
in the verse):
   God said to Moses, "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE. ...
   "I WILL BE" (Or "I AM BECOMING...") compared to just plain, static "I AM"? What are the 
implications of God "becoming" rather than just "being"? 
   There is at least one very interesting article (and probably more, but I know of at least one) on 
"becoming" in the archives if you will search on that word at:
http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives.html
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20051
From: "Kathys Email" 
Subject: Re: Good and evil
Ik wrote:
   "But is God absolutely perfect as many Christians seem to hold? Or is God "becoming", and 
therefore only "relatively" perfect? What are the implications of an absolutely perfect, and static 
God as is usually portrayed in this NIV translation of Exodus 3:14:"
Kathy
   Even if God is still becoming, His vibrational rate is much higher than ours, which is why we 
refer to Him as "God." This higher vibrational rate cannot emote darkness or "evil" because that is 
not what He "is." If he is still becoming, and I think that is true, he is becoming "more" than He is 
now and is reaching for higher vibrational being. My point was not that God is perfect and the 
same now, today and forever, but that He does not have a dark side. Do you believe He has a 
dark side? Is the polarity of God light and dark? If so, give me evidence. Kathy

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20052
From: Deborah Matthies 
Subject: Re-Good and Evil
   Kathy wrote: ""This higher vibrational rate cannot emote darkness or "evil" because that is not 
what He "is." If he is still becoming, and I think that is true, he is becoming "more" than He is now 
and is reaching for higher vibrational being. My point was not that God is perfect and the same 
now, today and forever, but that He does not have a dark side. Do you believe He has a dark 
side? Is the polarity of God light and dark? If so, give me evidence."
Kathy, 
   If we are reflections of God then to your question I would say Yes, the polarity of God does 
include light and dark. You cannot have light without dark. If you want proof you only need to look 
in the mirror because we can become as God in advanced vibrational rate. that is our purpose. 
God's light must outshine the darkness as I would expect in such an advanced being. 
   Larry thanks for the great link on the "Tablets of Thoth". Here is a good place for you to learn 
more Kathy, 
http://crystalinks.com/emerald.html
Peace,
Debs

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20053
From: b duffey
Subject: A Good Bible
Friends,
   I am currently reading a book that relates Hindu scripture with passages of the Bible - it's aim to 
show that the great religious teachings of the EAST and the WEST are but the same.
   I was wondering however what is a good bible to use when reading the passages. I feel that I 
can solidify my learning by reading the surrounding material around the bible quote.
Regards
Bruce.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20054
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: A Good Bible
Bruce:
   "I was wondering however what is a good bible to use when reading the passages. I feel that I 
can solidify my learning by reading the surrounding material around the bible quote."
   You can get online versions (passage lookup and word searches) at this online 
resource:http://bible.gospelcom.net/
   They have:
NIV (New International Version)
KJV (King James Version)
NAS (New American Standards)
   and several others. One feature I like is the ability to look at a particular verse in all versions 
and compare them.
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20055
From: b duffey
Subject: OT - Should the Devil be thanked
   Sorry about my previous post - should have said Off Topic. My apologies.
   Another OT, but I was hoping some discussion may solidify my thoughts about something. 
WARNING - Spoilers from Book II of the Immortal. Also all is IMHO (don't want to upset anyone). 
Apologies too for spelling - my spell checker is stuffed :-)
   My thoughts lie basically around good and evil, and primarily the former angel Lucifer. I have 
believed for a time that Lucifer should not be despised, but Instead THANKED. Please do not 
think I am a satanist here - quite the opposite.
   I have thought that the whole cast out of heaven thing is a bit incorrect. I think that Lucifer made 
the conscious 'decision' to be cast out of heaven - the whole casting thing I think is symbolic to a 
degree. WHY would Lucifer choose to be cast out??? - to provide mankind TEMPTATION. This 
brings us to the whole issue of duality. How do we know light, if we do not know dark - how do we 
know good if we don't know evil.
   (SPOILER) If we go by Book II of the Immortal when God divided into infinite points of 
reflection, then this reinforces a thought I read once before where God wanted to know godself - 
and God could only know Godself by being removed from Godself and rediscovering God (phew 
that was hard going removing gender references). God could not discover Godself without the 
notion of duality - the difference between ungodliness and godliness. The reflected points of 
consciousness had this honorable task of rediscovering God.
   Lucifer (entity or symbol - not sure yet) was created and cast from Godliness to provide human 
kind the essence of temptation. Thus we should know God by the rediscovery of God and thus 
GOD could know godself when we are one with God again.
   Thus if Lucifer is an actual entity, then I feel that Lucifer has made a sacrifice of COSMIC 
proportions. To know GODliness and to consciously remove oneself from that Godliness - can 
anyone think of a greater hell?.
   This does not mean I believe in worshipping evil. Not at all. Evil is the power that we must fight 
in our path towards godliness. Some have gone towards evil and created what some of you may 
call the dark brothers. There may indeed be evil entities attacking humans, but they would I 
believe be the result of certain humans (or other material forms) who have completely blocked 
themselves from the power of GOD. They feed on our energies created by ungodly thoughts and 
actions (I'm sure we've all felt the power of anger and hatred and of course FEAR).
   I used to be greatly afraid of evil, but since this personal realization (of course may not agree 
with you) I am becoming less and less afraid of it. Therefore it is drawing less energy from me. 
Perhaps this is a small step towards godliness by eliminating fear of ungodliness?
   All thoughts welcome
Regards
Bruce.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20056
From: "Robert G. Parent" 
Subject: Re:
   Sharri, I have come to believe that evil = ego. What I mean by that is that when one decides to 
do for the individual at the expense of the Unity, the whole is diminished. The saying "United we 
stand and divided we fall" comes to mind here. This is proven in the history of this country. 
England was an oppressive government that did not give her citizens freedom. So a group of 
people got together for the greater good, truth, and freedom. 
JOY, LOVE, FREEDOM
Rob
From: Sharri Lorraine "ALL IS ONE! All IS God! God is Both Good and Evil and Neither!" <snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20057
From: "Jennifer Hampson" 
Subject: OT ...talking about freedom
   Petition to United Nations
Dear Friends:
   Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging a war upon women. Since the Taliban took 
power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for 
not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of 
their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally 
exposing her arm while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the 
country with a man that was not a relative.
   Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional 
women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists and writers have been forced 
from their jobs and stuffed into their homes. Homes where a woman is present must have their 
windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so 
that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because 
they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or 
begging on the street, even if they hold Ph.D.s.
   Depression is becoming so widespread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way 
in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are 
estimating that the suicide rate among women, who cannot find proper medication and treatment 
for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such conditions, has increased 
significantly. There are almost no medical facilities available for women.
   At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying 
motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, slowly 
wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or 
crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is considering, when what little medication that is left 
finally runs out, leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a form of protest.
   It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement. 
Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but 
an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an 
inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative freedom, to work, 
dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear in public alone until only 1996. The rapidity 
of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide; women who were once 
educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and 
treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 
'culture,' but it is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is 
the rule.
   Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a Muslim 
country. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the name of human rights for the sake of 
ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, 
murder and injustice committed against women by the Taliban.
STATEMENT:
   In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in Afghanistan is completely 
UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by the United Nations and that the current situation 
overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere, and it is 
UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2000 to be treated as subhuman and so much as property. 
Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not a freedom, whether one lives in Afghanistan or 
elsewhere.
1) Suzanne Dathe, Grenoble, France
2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France
3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France
4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France
5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres, FRANCE
6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE
7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble,FRANCE
8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE
9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin, FRANCE
10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE
11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE
12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE
13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE
14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE
15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE
16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE
17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE
18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE
19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE
20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE
21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE.
22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE
23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France
24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Spain
25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Spain
26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France
27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France
28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER, Chatenay-Malabry, France
29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France
30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France
31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France
32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland
33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland
34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden
35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden
36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden
37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden
38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden
39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden
40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden
41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden
42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden
43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden
44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden
45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden
46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden
47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden
48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden
49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg,Sweden
50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden
51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden
52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden
53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden
54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxjo, Sweden
55) Asa Pettersson, Grimsas, Sweden
56) Jessica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden
57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden
58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden
59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden
60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand
61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand
62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand
63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand
64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand
65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK
67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK
68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA
69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden
70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden
71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden
72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm,Sweden
73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden
74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden
75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden
76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden
77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden
78) Douglas Bratt
79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden
80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden
81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden
82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden
83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden
84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador
85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland
86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland
87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland
88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong
89)Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon
90)Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA
91)Lisa L Miller, Reno NV
92)Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA
93) Sara Risher, Los Angeles, Ca.
94) Melanie London, New York, NY
95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA
96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA
97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA
98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA
99) Candace Brower, Evanston, IL
100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL
101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA
102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA
103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA
104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA
105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA
106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA
107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA
108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA
109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA
110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA
111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA
112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA
113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA
114) K. M. Mullen, Houston, TX - USA
115) Noreen Tolman, Houston, Texas - USA
116) Judy Bechtel, Merced, CA - USA
117) Delores Iliff, FL, USA
118) Nicole Propper, FL, USA
119) Bonnie LaChance, FL, USA
120) JoAnn Blades, FL, USA
121) Pam Blades, FL, USA
122) Louise Campbell, FL, USA
123) Marcy DeSanto, FL, USA
124) Donald Blades, FL,USA
125) Tom LaChance, FL, USA
126) Craig Huff, GA, USA
127) Karen Huff, FL, USA
128) Heather Huff, GA, USA
129) Franki Silcox GA, USA
130) Karin Horn, TX, USA
131) Lara Nelson, OH, USA
132) Beth Pilous, OH, USA
133) Sarah Clare, OH, USA
134) Carla Roth, OH, USA
135) Jenny Zukowski, MI, USA
136) Amanda Silic, MI, USA
137) Heather Gilroy, MD, USA
138) Kat Carrion, MD USA
139) Michelle Stryjewski, MD USA
140) Elizabeth H Stevens, OR, USA
141) Alice Stevens, OR, USA
142) Tyler R. Monzie/ OR/ USA
143) Allea Martin, OR, USA
145) Jose Tancuan, Or, USA
146) Akia Woods, OR USA
147) Bernie Gardent, OR, USA
148) Leslie Hall, OR, USA
149) Susan J. Woods, OR, USA
150 [Cegelnik, Dixie] , OR, USA
151 Susan Amburgey, OR, USA
152 Cindy Harboldt, OR, USA
153 Richard Rehm, CA, USA
154. Lyn Lindsay, CA, USA
155. Alma Gilligan, CA, USA
156. Maureen Lechwar, CA, USA
157. Leslie Morales, CA, USA
158. Marci Marcantonio, CA, USA
159. Jill Haskins, CA, USA
160. Jacqueline Gouly, CA, USA
161. Janet Talbott, CA, USA
162. Manjula Subbiah, CA, USA
163. Susan Duncan, CA, USA
164. Blanca E. Reynoso, CA, USA
165. Ruth C. Reynoso, Ca, USA
166. Phyllis H. Rawlins, Anaheim, CA, USA
167. Lori Rice, Naples, Italy
168. Mina Giovannitti, Las Vegas, USA (Turkey)
169. Fred Giovannitti, Las Vegas, USA
170. Noelle Brunelle, NV, USA
171. Kimberly A. Karl, NV, USA
172. Alana Segall, NV, USA
173. Mark Leonard, NV, USA
174. Nancy Leonard, NV, USA
175. Troy Leonard, NV, USA
176. Robert Mock AZ. USA
177. Patty Flanigan AZ, USA
178. William A Towne III, AZ, USA
179. Ellen J. Matheson, Los Angeles, CA, USA
180. Theresa Leets, Los Angeles, CA, USA
181. G. Ahou Soomekh, Los Angeles, CA, USA
182. Ronith Herman, El Paso, TX
183. Lauren R. Stein, PA, USA
184. Michelle F. King, PA, USA
185. Jere' Webb, CA, USA
186. Kim Anderson, CA USA
187. Kirsten Hinsdale, VA, USA
188. Ronald David, Wash, DC
189. Cheryl Barnes, Buffalo, NY
190. Dawne David, Wash DC, USA
191. Madhu Dutta New Delhi, India
192. Madhu Sen New Delhi, India
193. Alokparna, VA USA
194. Anjali Dasgupta, MS USA
195. Tilottama Brahmachari, NJ, USA
196. Chandrima Datta Ray, MS, USA
197. Jaydip Datta Ray, MS, USA
198. MarIa Florencia Vidano, MA, USA
 199. Matteo Dufour,Genova, Italia
200. Francois Dufour, Lugano, Switzerland
201. Francesco Ricasoli, Firenze, Italia
202. Lena Larsson, Stockholm, Sweden
203. Katarina Wigle, Stockholm, Sweden
204. Petter ?berg, Stockholm, Sweden
205. Per-Anders Stensson, Uppsala, Sweden
206. Malin MArtensson, Uppsala, Sweden
207. Maria Carlstedt
208. Eli Cathrine Wilhelmsen, Uppsala, Sweden
209. AnnaMaria Billing, Uppsala, Sweden
210. Christina Molnar, Uppsala, Sweden
211. Christina Bergmark, Stockholm, Sweden
212. Katarina Mimmi SpAng, Stockholm, Sweden
213. M"rta Terese M-rnvik, Stockholm, Sweden
214. Sofi HAkansson, Malm-, Sweden
215. ?sa Grogarn Sol, G-teborg, Sweden
216. Anders Jonsson, G-teborg, Sweden
217. ?sa Ericsson, G-teborg, Sweden
218. Elna F leide Selle, Bergen, Norway
219. Brynjar Stautland, B mlo, Norway
220. Berte Figenschou Amundsen, Trondheim, Norway
221. Marte M rkved-Romstad, Oslo, Norway
222. Kjersti Forbregd, Trondheim, Norway
123. Inger Margrethe Torgersen, Oslo, Norway
224. Lisbeth Skogstrand, Oslo, Norway
225. Ragnhild Skogstrand, Stokmarknes, Norway
226. Hanne Husaas, Lier, Norway
227. Helena Wikstr-m, Lund, Sweden
228. Kimberly Rapport, Ca, USA
229. Kristie Bennett, San Jose, CA, USA
230. Debi Di Bias, Santa Monica, CA, USA
231. Whitney Allen, San Francisco, CA USA
232. Kaaren Shalom, Los Angeles, CA USA
233. Gretchen German, Los Angeles, CA USA
234. Susan Peretz, Los Angeles, CA USA
235. Caryn West, Los Angeles, CA. USA
236. Heather Juergensen, Los Angeles, CA USA
237. Camryn Manheim. Los Angeles, CA USA
238. Julianne Williams, Los Angeles, CA USA
239. Jenna Elfman, Los Angeles, CA USA
240. Rachel Smith, Los Angeles, CA USA
241. Matthew Ian Glass, Los Angeles, CA USA
242. Bret R. Howey, Los Angeles, CA USA
243. Tammy Terrenzi, Los Angeles, CA USA
244. Jocelyn Jones Watkins. Santa Monica, Calif, USA
245. Irene Dirmann, Clearwater Florida USA
246. Robin Karfo, Santa Monica, CA, USA
247. Monica Larissa Hershaft, Los Angeles, CA USA
248. Adrian Ursu. Los Angeles, CA USA
249. Tim Capaldi, Detroit, MI USA
250. Marisa Ozburn, Chicago, IL
251. Kristina Boos, Detroit, MI USA
252. Anne Monday, Detroit, MI USA
253. Tiffany Reese, Detroit, MI USA
254. Kim Huston, Detroit, MI USA
255. Denise LaPlante, Detroit, MI USA
256. Piper Paton Smith, Roseville, MI USA
257. Yvette Beebe, Northville, MI USA
258. Jody Harris, Redford, MI USA
259. Pat Kovach, Brighton, MI USA
260. Karyn Anderson, Singapore
261. Steve Schafer, MI USA
262. Sue Schafer, MI USA
263. Elizabeth T. LaBelle MI USA
264. Robert A. LaBelle MI USA
265. Faye M. Woodley, CO USA
266. Dan Woodley CO, USA
267. Dani Watkins CO, USA
268. Donna Royster CO, USA
269. Chuck Pitte CO, USA
270. Twila Eberly CO, USA
271. Sandy Reavey CO, USA
272. Carolee Laughton, CO, USA
273. Jeffrey Adams, CO, USA
274. Susan Conder, CO, USA
275. Kathryn Haley, CO, USA
276. Gloria Haley, CO, USA
277. Samatra Doyle, CO, USA
278. Janet Neary, CA, USA
279. Kelly Metzler, CA, USA
280. Elizabeth Anderson, MN, USA
281. Rinda West, IL, USA
282. Richard Kroth, IL, USA
283. Heather Driscoll, Chicago, IL, USA
284.Mariluz Adler, Venice,CA,USA
285. Marisol Adler, Venice,CA, USA
286. Petra Matouschek, Pasadena, CA, USA
287. Alina Wolff, Vienna, AUSTRIA
288. Angelika Brudniak, Vienna, AUSTRIA
289. Marie-Theres Holler, Vienna, AUSTRIA
290. Barbara Peretti, Salzburg, AUSTRIA
291. Susanne Gordon-Oberhofer, Salzburg, Austria
292. Karin Pernegger, Nantes, France
293. David Michael Clarke, Nantes, France
294. Heidi Nikolaisen, Bergen, Norway
295. Lise Johansen, Tromso, Norway
296. Jeff Rechenbach, Cleveland, Ohio USA
297. Susan C. Pisha, Portland, OR USA
298. Ms. Charlie M. Clint, Portland, OR USA
299. Beverly Wilson Thornburg, Denver, CO USA
300. Sue Lowe, Austin, TX USA
301. Cheyenne Weaver, Austin, TX USA
302. Christine Walsh, Seattle, WA USA
303. Olivia Vlcek, Seattle, WA USA
304. Jenny Sayward, Seattle, WA USA
305. Diane Ste. Marie, WA USA
306. Jane Langenes, Seattle, WA USA
307. Sharon Chambers, Seattle, WA USA
308. Jackie Jackman, Ill, USA
309. Marcia Patience, Chicago, IL USA
310. K. Heaton, Kansas, USA
311. T. L. Essig, Lees Summit, MO USA
312. Erica Bourgeois, Vancouver, BC Canada
313. Nicci Bergunder, Vancouver, BC Canada\
314. Chief Kim Baird, Tsawwassen, BC Canada
315. Leah George-Wilson, North Vancouver, BC Canada
316. Stefany Mathias, Vancouver, BC Canada
317. David DeLeary, Toronto, ON, Canada
318. Debra Goldblatt, Toronto, ON, CANADA
319. Kelly Lamb, Toronto, ON, Canada
320. Carla Roblin Pryce, Toronto, ON, Canada
321. Theresa Taylor, Toronto, ON, Canada
322. Leah Taylor Roy, Boston, MA, USA
323. Jan-Marie Gundacker, Bradley Beach, NJ, USA
324. Jane Wyker, Rye, NY US
325. Barbara Berdon, NY, USA
326. Carol Rickard, Longboat Key, FL, USA
327. Sally C. Mahofski, Sarasota, FL, USA
328. Katharine Graham, Manchester, MA, USA
329. Thaddeus Beal, Somerville, MA USA
330. Vreni Blatter, Olten, Switzerland
331. Christoph Blatter, Olten, Switzerland
332. Marcel Hermans, Amsterdam, Netherlands
333. Cornelia Blatter, Amsterdam, Netherlands
334. Shauna Church, Brooklyn, NY, USA
335. Jill Enfield, NYC, NY, USA
336. Barbara Bell, NYC, NY, USA
337. Betsy Chory, Los Angeles, CA USA
338. Dody Dorn, Los Angeles, CA USA
339. Rica Linders, los Angeles, CA USA
340. Lisa Str-mbeck, Tol?nga, Sweden
341. Gitte Villesen, Copenhagen, Denmark
342. Kirsten Stoltmann, Chicago, USA
343. Pipilotti Rist, Z?rich, switzerland
344. Tobias Rehberger, Germany
345. Jan-Willem Poels, NM USA
346. Markus Richter, Berlin, Germany
347. Vera Boele-Keimer, Berlin, Germany
348. Kai-Ole Glatho, Tirana, Albania
349. Janosch Gro?e, Frankfurt/Main, Germany
350. Thorsten Overbeck, Kiel Germany
351. Thomas Beckmann, Kiel, Germany
352. Paul Griffioen, Rotterdam, Netherlands
353. Inge van den Boom, Netherlands
354. Louk van der Post, Netherlands
355. Caroline van Osselen, Netherlands
366. Adrienne van Dorpen, Amsterdam, Netherlands
367. Stefan van Dinther, Amsterdam, Netherlands
368. Liang Tung, Amstelveen, Netherlands
369. Volmer Montsma, Hiversum, Netherlands
370. Henri de Mooij, Leiden, Netherlands
371. Kurt Schwab, Netherlands
372. Bob Wijnen, Netherlands
373. Arnulf Ochs, Saarbr?cken, Germany
374. Gunnlaugur Gudmundsson, Den Haag, Netherlands
375. Jon Hlodver Askelsson, Akureyri, Iceland
376. Bjarni Kristinsson, Akureyri, Iceland
377. Helga Haraldsd?ttir, Reykjav?k, Iceland
378. Gudridur Sigurbjornsdottir, Iceland
379. Elin Hilmarsdottir, Iceland
380. Adalbjorg Thordardottir, Iceland
381. Oddny S. Jonsdottir, Iceland
382. Halldora Sigurdardottir, Iceland
383. Ragnhildur Richter, Iceland
384. Gudbjorg Arnadottir, Iceland
385. Hulda K. Gudjonsdottir, Iceland
386. Melanie Boesen, Copenhagen, Denmark
387. Gerdi Boor, Utrecht, Netherlands
388. Danielle Cumbo, Brooklyn, New York
389. Roseann V. Glass, Queens, New York
390. Antoinette A. Soares, Newark, California
391. Monica Allen, Boston, MA, USA
 392. Henry and Tish Allen, Boston, MA, USA
393. Michealle Larkins, Boston, MA, USA
394. Elizabeth Joyce, San Francisco, CA, USA
395. Debabrata RayChaudhuri, Boston, MA, USA
396. Per Ljungdahl, Stockholm, Sweden
397. Cornelia Oellig, Stockholm, Sweden
398. Karin Hamberg, Stockholm, Sweden
399. Camilla Sundstrom, London, UK
400. Patrik ?gren, London, UK
401. Ron de Rond, Zeist, NL
402. Grace de Rond, Zeist, NL
403. Joseph Ricioppo, McDonough, GA, USA
404. Michael Ricioppo, Richmond, VA, USA
405. Gabriel Ricioppo, Atlanta, GA, USA
   PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message (you can delete all the >'s with your Replace 
function), sign the bottom, and forward it to everyone on your distribution lists. If you receive this 
list with more than 600 names on it, please e-mail a copy of it to: sarabande@brandeis.edu
   Even if you decide not to sign, please be considerate and do not kill the petition. Thank you!

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20058
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: A Good Bible
   B duffey wrote: "Friends, I am currently reading a book that relates Hindu scripture with 
passages of the Bible - it's aim to show that the great religious teachings of the EAST and the 
WEST are but the same.
   "I was wondering however what is a good bible to use when reading the passages. I feel that I 
can solidify my learning by reading the surrounding material around the bible quote." Regards 
Bruce.
   What is the book you are reading. It sounds Interesting!!!
   I would recommend "The Everyday Bible" It is a recent translation, which took about 20 years to 
translate, because it was a collaboration of Jewish and Christian, both Catholic and Protestant 
denominations. You can get it from Guide Posts for under $20.
   If you are Really Interested in The Truth, you might want to get a "Lexicon" You would need a 
Hebrew/Aramaic Lexicon for the Old Testament and a Greek Lexicon for the New Testament. 
This will give you the Original Word and all of its meanings. Oh, and if you are Really into the 
Esoteric, Try The Pentatuke (sp?) (Five Books) of Enoch: by R.C. Charles, probably in your local 
library.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20059
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: A Good Bible
   Sharri Lorraine wrote: "You would need a Hebrew/Aramaic Lexicon for the Old Testament and 
a Greek Lexicon for the New Testament. This will give you the Original Word and all of its 
meanings. Oh, and if you are Really into the Esoteric, Try The Pentatuke (sp?) (Five Books) of 
Enoch: by R.C. Charles, probably in your local library."
   Pentateuch? This sounds interesting too, Sharri. Thanks for the information. One book that I've 
heard Rick mention and more recently, Yvon, is, The Aquarian Gospel. It seems to come highly 
recommended too.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
 or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20060
From: Jarmo Nevalainen 
Subject: SB law
   LK wrote "A couple years ago we were driving home from vacation with our children. Sarah at 
that time was 2+ years old or so. She had been in her car seat for perhaps 10-12 hours except for 
a few mintues at periodic stops. We were minutes away from reaching our destination (where we 
were going to set up our camper). We drove into a small town. The speed limit was maybe 30 
mph. Sarah was losing it and crying and needed her diaper changed. We decided to take her out 
of her seat, change her diaper, and comfort her some. We got pulled over by the police and I got 
a ticket for that. No matter that we were truly responsible adults who _had_ kept her in a car seat 
for 99.999% of the trip. No, "zero tolerance", and a fine for us.
   "In my view "zero tolerance" is equivalent to "zero intelligence".
   I can truly understand that you felt somewhat pissed. But how would've you felt if somebody 
would've pumped up to you at 40 mph. Would it have been zero intelligence to have your child 
"loose". I see this as a reminder/teaching lesson. Besides i think that a ticket is a small prize to 
pay for that lesson hope you learned it.
   Ps. You can always look at things from different angles. 
Jarmo

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-11/20061
From: Jarmo Nevalainen 
Subject: good and evil
   Comment that i have is I believe that in order to become good you have to be evil at one point 
of your cycle. 
   Now it doesn't mean that we have to accept it but it makes at least for me easier to understand 
the negative/evil. I believe that as there is good there is evil, they are connected and there needs 
to be balance between them(I've gotten to a many hot arguments because of this belief)
   One thing that helps me to understand good and evil is when i think about death, i do think 
about it too much =) especially when i think if somebody would kill brutally my 9 year old son. I 
always like to say people that no matter what you should forgive people their bad deeds? 
Thinking about the death of a near one really puts this into scale. I've searched my soul as openly 
as possible and I've come to this conclusion.
   I'd be infuriated at the beginning and totally broken, but as time goes i would be able to forgive 
to this "evil" person, cause he didn't knew better, and hopefully he learned something about it. 
   BTW i often think about why is it i think about death a lot. It has helped me to understand it 
better and I've become free from fear of it, and that's a lot!
   In short i do see evil deeds or evil person as a teacher, call me ignorant cold blooded but that's 
how I see it...=)
Jarmo

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20062
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Environmental Solutions
   I never did comment on the following questions on global warming. Better late than never.
The Questions
   Another hot issue is Global Warming. Some make a good argument that this presents us with a 
real problem and others say that the scientists making such a claim are not real hard scientists, 
but activists with minimal science skills and that many good scientists say the evidence is not 
there.
   What do you think? Is there a real problem or not? What will the true Aquarian think?
   Even if there is no solid proof of such a problem, should we take preventive measures anyway?
   How drastic of measures should we take?
   Should freedom be sacrificed in the name of saving the world?
   Comment
   We received some good common sense comments on this. The basic problem with this issue is 
that one side presents evidence that there is global warming but then promotes draconian 
measures limiting the economy and freedom to prevent it.
   The other side states that the evidence is non conclusive but then promotes the belief that there 
is nothing to be concerned about and that we should do nothing unless there is concrete proof.
   In my view neither of these approaches touches on the middle point of truth.
   There is one thing that we do know for sure in this debate. Through the use of fossil fuels 
mankind is releasing huge amounts of emissions which is very likely to create significant changes 
in the atmosphere and does present the possibility of earth changes. How great the change will 
be we do not know unless some type of true revelation is obtained on the matter.
   One thing that is overlooked by many is that our atmosphere as well as the earth itself has been 
undergoing changes for billions of years. Millions of years ago our atmosphere was so different 
than it is today that if we could go back in time and breath it, we would die. What has happened is 
that as our planet and atmosphere has made changes, life upon the earth has adapted to those 
changes.
   What is different today is that man has power to cause changes to occur more quickly than at 
any time in our history. It is possible that we could evolve to accommodate our changes in 
atmosphere, but it is also possible that the changes are coming too quickly for safe evolution.
   Logic does indeed then dictate that we are polluting the earth too quickly for safe adaptation, so 
what can we do - what should we do?
   It would seem to many that we should follow the advice of the activists and do all we can do to 
restrict the use of fossil fuels and businesses hat use them. It may seem that restrictive laws are 
in order - that the sacrifice would be worth the benefit.
   Let me tell you why this path could spell disaster, not only for the economy and freedom of the 
world, but also the very environment they wish to save.
   If the world economy along with freedom continues to grow throughout the world, then within 
30-40 years we will develop alternative fuels which are clean burning and environmentally safe 
making the polluting fuels a dying item no more to threaten the world.
   On the other hand, if draconian measures are introduced to save the environment at the 
expense of destroying world economy as well as freedom, then the circumstances we need to 
make the scientific and business progress necessary to develop and promote safe fuels will not 
be available and 30, 40 and 50 or more years will pass away and we will still be polluting the 
earth as much as ever with fossil fuels. Thus the cure becomes one with the disease.
   The anti environmentalists present us with a similar problem. Most of them, to their credit do 
want the economy to grow and wan to allow reasonable freedom to all, but their problem is that 
they present few if any plans to develop safe fuels and save the earth from pollution. Instead they 
spend most of their energies fighting the "extreme environmentalists." Therefore, if they have 
their way the pollution of the earth will continue at an increasing rate and our fuel supplies will 
continue to dwindle.
   What then is the solution?
   The leaders of the world must present Middle Way common sense plans to save the 
environment yet at the same time assuring that the world economy continues to grow and 
freedom is not infringed. Governments must do all in their power to encourage the development 
of clean burning fuels with unlimited supply and provide an atmosphere of freedom and support 
for the coming innovations and crossovers to the new fuels.
   If we can all just curtail our dogmatic points of view for a few years and just work as one people 
and drop the idea of protesting and destroying all who do not share our thought system, then in 
30-40 years we can be on the path to a new environmentally friendly world. The results we 
produce are totally predicated on our free will. If we do not do our part successfully then the life of 
the planet itself will take measures into its own hands and cleanse itself through major earth 
changes. Where there is land there will be water and where there is water there will be land until 
the earth is purified and mankind begins anew with a fresh prospective.
   The next principle to discuss is that of Will. What exactly do we mean by will in relation to God 
and man? What is the difference between will and determination?
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20063
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: SB law
   Jarmo wrote: "I can truly understand that you felt somewhat pissed....I see this as a 
reminder/teaching lesson." 
   I was a lesson, but not in the way you suspect.
   "Besides i think that a ticket is a small prize to pay for that lesson hope you learned it."
   I did learn the lesson, but not the one you think. I would have absolutely no moral compunction 
against doing absolutely the same thing again, but I would be more careful to observe the 
presence of authorities.
   What we did in taking Sarah out of her car seat at that time was a considered judgment, and 
still correct in my opinion and the law which punished us for it was, and still is wrong.
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20064
From: Christopher Wynter 
Subject: Re: Environmental Solutions
   There is only one comment I would like to make here ... and that is that, in very many cases, 
the technology not only exists, but is in limited production in certain areas.
   However, where radical technological advance has seen a major energy producer threatened, 
the patents concerning the advance have been bought out by some of the major consortiums for 
economic reasons ..
 that the big company monopoly would be threatened.
   This has been evidenced in the automotive industry over 10 years ago where the patents for 
alternative fuel engines were bought by a large automotive firm in conjunction with a petroleum 
company ...
   In many cases, the inventions have been made by smaller companies and individuals who have 
been starved of the funds required to progress to the manufacturing stage .. unless, there can be 
a military benefit .. then money is available .. and the inventor disappears ...
   Sorry folks .. I have evidence of this .. it does happen ...
   The Military and the Monopolies control the translation from the inventors test bench to the 
mass market.
   sure, there have been some cranks .. but there are a number of pollution saving devices that 
work .. and have been in functioning prototype form for years ..
example ...
 The Sarrich Rotary Engine (bought out by Ford and Mobil
 10 years ago)
 The Ceramic Engine .. (squashed by a major oil co
 in Australia .. who now owns the rights)
 The Magnetic Propulsion Unit
 (now classified Military Top Secret)
and so the list goes on ....
   The original Solar Hot Water System was squashed because it threatened the sale of electric 
heaters .. and then was manufactured in Japan who bought the Australian Patent .. and Rheem, 
who were offered the manufacturing rights were forced to do a deal with the Japanese company 
to control the import or the hot water heaters back into Australia.
   Early in their development, an attempt was made to stop the production of the first heart pace 
makers .. and the first ultra sound equipment by a small Australian company .. but some private 
investors got behind the developers to block the attempted take over.
   Because of some of the radicals and activists who made a noise, we are now seeing some 
small private property owners who have set up their own electricity generators (which use wind or 
water power) being able to sell their surplus into the national grid ..
   Times, they are a changing .. but it is the military and the monopolies who are the greatest 
polluters. it is those companies who have a vested interest in their current technology and its 
profit base that are actively obstructing ... and the most violent of the activists a professionally 
employed to discredit those who are genuine in their attempts to reform so, maybe it would be a 
good idea if some of these draconian measures were taken to allow the technology already 
available to come on line
CW
   you wrote: "It would seem to many that we should follow the advice of the activists and do all 
we can do to restrict the use of fossil fuels and businesses hat use them. It may seem that 
restrictive laws are in order - that the sacrifice would be worth the benefit.
   "Let me tell you why this path could spell disaster, not only for the economy and freedom of the 
world, but also the very environment they wish to save.
   "If the world economy along with freedom continues to grow throughout the world, then within 
30-40 years we will develop alternative fuels which are clean burning and environmentally safe 
making the polluting fuels a dying item no more to threaten the world."

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20065
From: "Jennifer Hampson" 
Subject: Re: a good Bible
   Sorry, can't recall who asked about this but I agree you can't go past The Aquarian Gospel. 
Also I have found some good stuff in Corinne Heline's New Age Bible Interpretations 
(approximately 7 volumes).
   For a regular Bible, the King James translation is reputedly the best... tho' I am no expert I have 
to say.
Jennifer

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20066
From: "Jennifer Hampson" 
Subject: Re: Will
   "The next principle to discuss is that of Will. What exactly do we mean by will in relation to God 
and man? What is the difference between will and determination?"
   Will is more of an outward emanation of power and does not have the quality of 'pushing' or 
forcefulness that determination has. Pushing is excessive use of force and by its nature takes one 
away from the middle point, unlike Will (which is a masculine quality associated with the Father 
aspect of the Trinity). Willfulness' is misuse of will whereas willingness is the path to opening to 
Will.
   Will is the first act of any creation and as such seems to me to be connected with Decision. To 
be one with Divine Will we must be prepared to willingly complete those things we have decided 
to do. Every time we make a pure decision (eg one untainted by doubt or back-doors to escape 
through!) and act on it, we are in accord with God's Will. Even a simple decision, such as, 'I am 
going to bed now'!
Good night
Jennifer

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20067
From: "Jennifer Hampson" 
Subject: OT Things to know....just for fun
   Subject: Things to Know
   The citrus soda 7-UP was created in 1929; "7" was selected because the original containers 
were 7 ounces. "UP" indicated the direction of the bubbles.
 Mosquito repellents don't repel. They hide you. The spray blocks the mosquito's sensors so they 
don't know you're there.
 Dentists have recommended that a toothbrush be kept at least 6 feet away from a toilet to avoid 
airborne particles resulting from the flush.
 The liquid inside young coconuts can be used as substitute for blood plasma.
 American car horns beep in the tone of F.
 No piece of paper can be folded more than 7 times.
 Donkeys kill more people annually than plane crashes.
 1 in every 4 Americans has appeared on television.
 You burn more calories sleeping than you do watching television.
 Oak trees do not produce acorns until they are fifty years of age or older.
 The first product to have a bar code was Wrigley's gum.
 The king of hearts is the only king without a moustache.
 A Boeing 747s wingspan is longer than the Wright brother's first flight.
 American Airlines saved $40,000 in 1987 by eliminating 1 olive from each salad served in first-
class.
 Venus is the only planet that rotates clockwise.
 The first CD pressed in the US was Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA."
 Apples, not caffeine, are more efficient at waking you up in the morning.
 The 57 on the Heinz ketchup bottle represents the number of varieties of pickles the company 
once had.
 The plastic things on the end of shoelaces are called aglets.
 Most dust particles in your house are made from dead skin.
   The first owner of the Marlboro company died of lung cancer.
 Barbie's full name is Barbara Millicent Roberts.
 Betsy Ross is the only real person to ever have been the head on a Pez dispenser.
 Michael Jordan makes more money from Nike annually than all of the Nike factory workers in 
Malaysia combined.
 Adolf Hitler's mother seriously considered having an abortion but was talked out of it by her 
doctor.
 Marilyn Monroe had six toes.
 All US Presidents have worn glasses. Some just didn't like being seen wearing them in public.
 Walt Disney was afraid of mice.
 The sound of E.T. walking was made by someone squishing her hands in jelly.
 Debra Winger was the voice of E.T.
 Pearls melt in vinegar.
 t takes 3,000 cows to supply the NFL with enough leather for a year's supply of footballs.
 Thirty-five percent of the people who use personal ads for dating are already married.
 The three most valuable brand names on earth: Marlboro, Coca Cola, and Budweiser, in that 
order.
 It is possible to lead a cow upstairs...but not downstairs.
 Average life span of a major league baseball: seven pitches.
 A duck's quack doesn't echo and no one knows why.
 The reason firehouses have circular stairways is from the days when the engines were pulled by 
horses. The horses were stabled on the ground floor and figured out how to walk up straight 
staircases.
 Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US president whose name contains all the letters from the 
word "criminal." The second? William Jefferson Clinton.
 And turtles can breathe through their bums.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20068
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: good and evil
   Jarmo Nevalainen wrote: "I'd be infuriated at the beginning and totally broken, but as time goes 
i would be able to forgive to this "evil" person, cause he didn't knew better, and hopefully he 
learned something about it.
   "In short i do see evil deeds or evil person as a teacher, call me ignorant cold blooded but that's 
how i see it...=)"
   I think you are an exceptionally advanced person, not at all ignorant or cold blooded; a very 
nice person. It's a pleasure to meet you.
Love,
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20069
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: Environmental Solutions
   "The next principle to discuss is that of Will. What exactly do we mean by will in relation to God 
and man? What is the difference between will and determination?"
   "Will" is the decision, or choice. "Determination" is the ability to overcome obstacles to achieve 
what the will has ordained? In life we see many people who decide on something, but far fewer 
who have the ability to hold onto the decision in their minds until they can accomplish what they 
chose. Perhaps there is a correlation here between "determination" and "faith"?
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20070
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: Re: Environmental Solutions
   I would have to agree with Christopher. The technology is already out there, but is squashed. A 
good solar car prototype was built twice in Salt Lake. Both times just after finishing, it would be 
destroyed. The inventor gave up. He couldn't take the threats anymore. It seems to me given the 
glaring fact that the financiers are unwilling to give up their stranglehold on new environmentally 
friendly inventions, giving out the inventions for free over the internet is the only way to overcome 
the problem. Of course the inventor will make nothing from it, but perhaps that is the whole idea. 
"Freely ye have received, freely give." (Matt 10:8) Perhaps God meant it. Until we rid ourselves of 
the profit motive perhaps we will never get out of the mess we are in.
JJ wrote:
   "The next principle to discuss is that of Will. What exactly do we mean by will in relation to God 
and man? What is the difference between will and determination?"
   The correct use of will is to align it with God's will which we can only know through soul contact. 
Determination is something we decide alone and try to push through with our own efforts and 
abilities. When we are aligned with God's will the whole universe is on our side so to speak and 
helps it to happen. I believe that is one meaning of the scripture, "My burden is light." The energy 
behind "will" still requires us to work and do our part, but it just flows and we are renewed with 
increasing energy and abilities. With determination we are drained of energy and it is like 
swimming upstream all the time.
Susan
   Christopher Wynter wrote: "...and that is that, in very many cases, the technology not only 
exists, but is in limited production in certain areas.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20071
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Details
   I agree with you Chris and Susan that there is technology in existence which could replace 
fossil fuels and I should have mentioned this.
   Creating the seed technology and putting it into general application are two different things and 
the latter is by far the mist difficult.
   Even in an atmosphere of prosperity and freedom those who do not wish to lose their livelihood 
will fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo, but they are fighting a loosing battle. It is just a 
matter of time before alternatives do come out that they will not be able to stop - providing we 
have a reasonable atmosphere of freedom.
   By the way, if anyone is looking for a good investment I have a nephew who has invented a 
home generating unit that can make a home self-sufficient and save over 30% on electricity. This 
is feasible in the hear and now. He needs about $300,000.
   The most correct Bible from my studies is the Concordant version. Information is available on 
this at my web site at www.freeread.com. Scroll down to the bottom and click on "links to 
thousands of free books."
   One of these links takes you to the Concordant Bible Company. There is also a link to the full 
text of The Aquarian Gospel in the links which is not a translation, but a revelation of missing 
details of the life of Christ. I highly recommend this. I have recently updated my links so they 
should all be working now.
   For those who ordered the CD of my classes there is a slight flaw on item 32 of the Gathering 
series. The .MP3 is left off. If you do not have a Mac you will need to move this file on your hard 
drive and add .mp3 at the end - then it will play. This is corrected in the new ones I have made.
   We still have slightly flawed Immortal books available two for the price of one or $19.95 
postpaid in the US. Outside of the US add $5.00 postage. The CD with about ten hours of audio 
teachings is $14.95. E-mail me for details.
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20072
From: "Abiquiu" 
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Lawrence:
   "But is God absolutely perfect as many Christians seem to hold? Or is God "becoming", and 
therefore only "relatively" perfect? What are the implications of an absolutely perfect, and static 
God as is usually portrayed in this NIV translation of Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, 'I AM 
WHO I AM. [2] ...'"
   Interesting, isn't it, how we equate "perfection" with "static" or non-moving? I wonder where that 
idea came from? Can there not be perfection in motion? I do believe that God is forever 
"becoming" who It is, and I also believe that this is perfect! The Creation, which includes us, is 
forever evolving and changing and moving. We are, essentially, the "body" of God and so, by 
extension, God is forever evolving and changing and moving.
   Of course, there is also the aspect of God which is the Unmanifest, which is unmoving but 
which contains the potential for all movement. Perhaps this is where the idea of "static perfection" 
comes from. What people need to realize in this regard is that both that which is still and that 
which is in motion are perfect. There is no rational basis for the judgment that one is perfect and 
the other is not.
- - - - - - - - - -
   Bruce, would you share the title, author, etc., of the book you are reading, the one that relates 
Hindu Scriptures to the Bible? I would be very interested in learning of it.
   There is no perfect Bible, as far as I know. The Protestants use the King James version (the 
New King James modernizes the Elizabethan English a bit); the Catholics use the Revised 
Standard Version, I believe. I would recommend a less familiar version for your consideration: the 
Lamsa Bible. It is a translation of the Bible from the original Aramaic, the language that Jesus and 
his associates used. This Bible has survived since the earliest days of Christianity and has been 
spared the political and metaphysical tampering that affects the Western Bibles. Supposedly, it 
also contains far fewer translation errors, as it was done by an accomplished scholar of Aramaic. 
It is still in liturgical use in eastern churches, the Syriac Church and the Orthodox Church, if I'm 
not mistaken. For sheer poetry, however, I still go to the King James....
   From the cover: "Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text: George M. Lamsa's Translation 
from the Aramaic of the Peshitta." ISBN 0-06-064296-7 (or paperback: ISBN 0-06-064923-2)
- - - - - - - - - -
   Lawrence, thanks for that link to the Bible versions. That looks very useful. It's easier than 
loading the CD for the Bibleworks program, as I sometimes do when researching a topic.
- - - - - - - - - -
   Bruce, what you have described as the reason that God enters into/creates duality is exactly 
the dynamic that was explained by Neale Donald Walsch in his book series called "Conversations 
With God." If you want to read more on this, I recommend especially Books 1 and 3. There is also 
a related website.
Bruce:
   "I used to be greatly afraid of evil... "
   Glad to hear that you are getting over this. An interesting thing to recognize is that "evil" or what 
we call "negative energy" cannot take hold in you if you do not give in to fear. Now, if fear is 
present, no amount of denial of that fact will do you any good. I'm not talking about denial of fear. 
But if fear is genuinely not present in you, "evil" cannot touch you. It can, perhaps, knock you 
around a bit and challenge your stability, but it can only "hook" you if you provide a place within 
yourself where a "hook" can be sunk in. Just like the protagonist in The Immortal was not 
"hooked" by the false prophet type (can't think of his name at the moment) near the end of the 
book.
   We draw to us that which we carry within ourselves. And the "Universe" is, by its nature, happy 
to oblige us in reflecting exactly what we are putting out. If we hold fear within, we will experience 
all manner of evidence that our fear is real and justified. If, by contrast, we hold joy within, the 
Universe will reflect that to us, and our life will be joyous. And so on. We are the creators of our 
experience! So, if you banish fear within yourself, what will remain? The truth of who you are, 
which is love. And where love is, "evil" cannot be.
   A former teacher of mine once said that there are two ways to deal with evil (and I have had 
opportunities to put this to the test): either by opposing it with a view to destroying it, or by loving 
it. If we choose the first option, we had better be stronger than the negative force we are 
opposing, or the negative force will win the battle. But anyone can choose the second option, and 
as I said, where love is, evil cannot exist. So by loving the negative energy, unconditionally, it 
melts or moves away.
   So many "new age" teachings talk about protecting ourselves by visualizing ourselves bathed in 
white light, and other such methods. Such methods seem trivial compared to the power of love to 
dispel evil, to dispel darkness. Nothing can resist the power of love. To resort to such methods as 
the "protective white light", while it may have some degree of effectiveness, is to make our fear 
real. It also empowers, not only the fear, but the thing feared. Resistance is a means of applying 
energy to a thing. "Resist not evil", Christ said. With good reason! If we resist evil, we put energy 
into it and make it stronger and more real. Fundamentally, it has no reality. As you observe, its 
reality is relative only. But when we pour energy into it by resisting it, we make it more real when 
what we really want is the reverse!
   Your thoughts about Lucifer are very interesting! Compare Lucifer's relation to God to that of 
Judas in relation to Jesus. Some people believe that Judas knew exactly what he was doing 
when he "betrayed" Jesus, that he was conscious of his role and was greatly troubled by it. 
Imagine how difficult it would be to do what he did, knowingly! This is explored in the book "I 
Remember Union", by Flo Aiveia Magdalena, and in the book and movie, "The Last Temptation of 
Christ", by Nikos Kazantzakis. Without Judas' part in the drama, the great impact of the image of 
the risen Christ could not have been created to sow the seed that germinated for 2,000 years, to 
begin its flowering in our generation. It may have been a great act of surrender to a higher good 
that Judas achieved. It takes a powerful soul to play such a "heavy" part in the drama!
   Likewise, one can speculate that, on that level where all things are "perfect", on the level of the 
"higher" consciousness, Lucifer also knowingly descended into denser manifestation so that we 
could create the "stage" upon which we enact our morality plays of good and evil, for the 
edification of the soul.
   At the same time, WITHIN the relative dimensions - the ones in which we live - "evil" is "real" 
and must be a factor in our choices. I use the quotation marks to indicate that the "reality" of 
which I speak is relative, however. We don't have to buy into it, or embody it, or give it absolute 
reality in our own minds. All we have to do is make a choice. We can choose fear, which believes 
evil is real, or we can choose love, which IS real and which banishes evil.
- - - - - - - - - -
Rob:
   "I have come to believe that evil = ego."
   Definitely! I agree wholeheartedly. On the level of the individual personality, "ego" is the 
mechanism of "evil" in the sense that "ego" embodies all the limitation that the world wants us to 
believe is real. Why? Simply for the purpose of subjugation of the divine self which COULD and 
WOULD express through the personality if it were not masked by the ego. In traditional terms, 
this energy of opposition and subjugation has been called The Adversary. The same thing as 
Satan, Lucifer, etc. It was called The Dark Side in the movie, "Star Wars."
   The world conditions us from earliest infancy to believe that we are limited in various ways, and 
we internalize these limitations and believe that they are real. We identify with them and believe 
that that is who we really are. Thus are we controlled and manipulated by the worldly powers, 
through fear, low self-esteem, self-judgment. This is the Adversary in action.
   Now, this is perfect, actually, because this dynamic creates the lessons that spur our evolution. 
It is in the struggle against this lie that we learn who we really are; it is by contrast to our 
experience of sleep that we appreciate what it is to awaken! So it is in this life: by overcoming the 
lies of limitation, we awaken to the truth and magnificence of our divine self. And as Bruce 
observed, so it is that God comes to know what it is to be God, by experiencing what appears to 
be not-God. And how does God do that? Through us!
- - - - - - - - - -
Jarmo:
   "I believe that in order to become good you have to be evil at one point of your cycle."
   Many other people believe this also. Some people say that in our many lives (this only makes 
sense if you accept reincarnation as a fact), we have "done it all": we have killed and been killed, 
we have raped and been raped, we have been rich and poor, we have tortured and been tortured, 
we have given and received love, we have been successful and we have been failures.
   For example, an excellent, or at least effective, way to learn the sanctity of life is to experience 
being deprived of it, as in being murdered. An effective way to learn compassion and forgiveness 
is to experience being a murderer. (I'm speaking to a "soul level" here: I'm not advocating 
becoming a murderer! Let's not confuse our levels of reality!) As Shakespeare observed, all the 
world's a stage, and we are all players upon that stage. We play many parts, not only in this life 
but throughout the pageant of time in our many lives. This is how we learn the many rich and 
beautiful lessons of the human experience.
   Eventually, we learn enough to make increasingly intelligent choices about life: to choose love 
rather than hate or fear, to choose to nurture rather than to destroy or harm, to choose beauty 
over ugliness or sordidness, to choose peace rather than war on the outside or anxiety on the 
inside. Then the role of evil in our experience is diminished (because we no longer need it as a 
teacher quite so much), and the experience of love, joy and peace grows greater and greater.
Love and blessings,
Benjamin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20073
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: Good and evil
Kathy wrote:
   "My point was not that God is perfect and the same now, today and forever, but that He does 
not have a dark side. Do you believe He has a dark side?"
   I really don't know. I don't think so, but I don't confuse that with _knowing_ that it is so. I don't 
claim to know what the nature of God is, and I am not uncomfortable with that lack of knowledge. 
   All the evidence that I have available indicates a great goodness, but I don't feel compelled to 
define it (as many theologians seem compelled). I am aware of this scripture which at least gives 
me pause:
   Isaiah 45:7 KJV)
   I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these 
things.
   Again, I have learned to equate "evil" and "darkness" with opposition to evolution and progress 
on the plan of God. I am not even certain that the question of evil is even applicable to God. But I 
try not to take my theorizing as fact, and most importantly I try not to equate my beliefs with actual 
knowing. In short, I don't know that I know the nature of God. Knowing that, in my limited 
knowledge I do know that to whatever degree I do align with the will of God, that I do find joy and 
some degree of peace. 
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20074
From: "Robert G. Parent" 
Subject: Re: Law - Order - Glory
J J Dewey WRITES: <snip> "First I have a difficult time understanding why Jahnihah is such a big 
believer in lawlessness when Joseph Smith and the Mormon Scriptures, of which he is a big 
believer, stress the importance of law."
<snip>
   "Whether you are a Mormon or not their scriptures give an interesting thought on law." <snip>
   JJ, I was thinking about the law all day today and I came to a few realizations. That the laws 
change as people evolve and that the laws help people to get together and learn about working 
as an union. If we didn't have laws, people would be doing their own thing where chaos and ego 
play. Is this correct? 
Rob
   <snip> "Therefore it is drawing less energy from me. Perhaps this is a small step towards 
godliness by eliminating fear of ungodliness? All thoughts welcome Regards Bruce."
   I do agree with you. Our dark sides should not be ignored. We can't give into them either. For 
when people ignore their dark sides, it becomes stronger. People can learn from their dark sides 
by facing them and overcoming them. I think that the final battle that the revelations talk about is 
not an external battle but an internal battle. 
Rob

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20075
From: Rick Audette 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   re: HTML text
   Spiritweb asks that we not use HTML text, in their general guidelines. For those that may have 
forgotten our host's rules, I have copied and pasted them below.
Mailing List Guidelines
   Every list has its own mood and atmosphere, which even changes through time and list-
operator. Some lists are like families where personal experiences are shared, whereas other lists 
act like a news-magazine where a lot of information is posted. 
   The following guidelines apply to all lists at SpiritWeb: 
1.Only post simple text to the list (some mail-agents can post HTML & Text, turn off that HTML 
option). 
2.If you have just joined a list, read the archive first to get a glimpse of the atmosphere, the list-
archive becomes available once you subscribed. A short introduction of yourself helps further to 
know each other better. 
3.Do not post 2-3 lines mails saying "I agree" to a previous article, or better reply to the sender of 
the submission direct. 
4.If you quote an post in your reply, please remove any redundance such as personal 
signatures/footers etc. Let's keep every post as informative as possible, and this is in everybody's 
interest. 
5.Do not cross-post between lists, e.g. sending one post to several lists using To:, Cc: or Bcc:, 
many lists have one or multiple-threads already and cross-posting is intruding such flow. If you 
choose to cross-post, e.g. sending one posts to several lists, then be also willing to be engaged 
on several lists actively. 
6.Avoid postings of pages which could be read on the web as well, just post the URL which might 
be of interest or if posting a longer article, then only in the meaning of discussing the article with 
all members of the list. 
7.Do not post personal emails to the list without prior permission from the original author. It is 
common 'netiquette' and decent behaviour anyway to seek permission to share personal 
correspondence publicly. 
8.Do not post pictures to the list, as many people have difficulty to handle long emails (100 KB is 
the maximum length of a post allowed). Attachments of any kind aren't supported due security 
reasons. 
9.Avoid "blunt" advertising of services or products. 
10.No political discussion, conspiracy and new-world-order, as appropriate forums of such topics 
exist at other places already. 
11.No chain-letters of any kind or announcements of computer viruses. 
   Thanks for considering and acknowledging those few guidelines, it makes interacting via 
mailing-lists easier and efficient for all participants. 
-- 
ICQ # 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
and http://petracity.intercosmos.com/index.html
The only really natural diet http://www.neanderthin.com
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20076
From: Rick Audette 
Subject: Re: OT - Bizarre New Way to Propel a Spacecraft
   Oh yes, magnets are fun to play with, but the real fun comes when you wrap the magnets into a 
circle, instead of the wires. But if you want some really powerful propulsion, in an economical 
package, the trick is to wrap gravity around a circle and take power from the free falling armature. 
Rick
-- 
ICQ # 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
and http://petracity.intercosmos.com/index.html
The only really natural diet http://www.neanderthin.com
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20077
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: OT ...talking about freedom 
   "Petition to United Nations
"Dear Friends:
   "Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging a war upon women. 
*snip*
   "PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message (you can delete all the's with your Replace 
function), sign the bottom, and forward it to everyone on your distribution lists. If you receive this 
list with more than 600 names on it, please e-mail a copy of it to: sarabande@brandeis.edu"
Hi All,
   I know for a fact that some of the chain mails, no matter how important the subject seems to be, 
are hoaxes and are sometimes used to gather email addresses for spamming. I do not know what 
the truth about this mail is, but I did a finger command using the sarabande address above, and I 
received:
Email: sarabande@brandeis.edu
Name: Do Not Respond To Sarabande Afghan Chain Letter
Department: From the we don't want to hear about this anymore department
   So, there is something dubious about this chain mail.
Love,
Samu
_______________
Samu Karlsson 
eMail: samu3@dlc.fi
http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3
Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine...
but you already know this, don?t you?

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20078
From: Rick Audette 
Subject: Re: O.T. The Immortal
   A hearty second to that, friends.
   Many that I have given the book have not found time to begin reading it, even though I know 
they would have a hard time putting it down, once they started. Having given my girlfriend my 
copy to read and noticed she hadn't started, I suggested we read it aloud, together. She loved the 
idea and is really getting into it, but I am also getting even more out of it then I had expected. 
   Two years on the Keys of Knowledge mail list has added many book's worth of additional 
insight into what the characters talked about. 
   AND
   I am no more prepared when I get to the parts that bring tears to my eyes. They still do. In fact, 
I think I found a few more spots, that I missed the first time.
Rick
-- 
ICQ # 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
and http://petracity.intercosmos.com/index.html
The only really natural diet http://www.neanderthin.com
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20079
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: Re: Environmental Solutions
   The will of God has eternal significance. The will of man is finite. Determination can be 
exhausted. The will can never be exhausted when it is aligned with God's.
   I always thought the first key would have something to do with will. Instead of decision plus 
attention equals consciousness, I thought the answer was decision plus will equals 
consciousness. Maybe another key is decision plus will equals manifestation.
Rapter
Keith

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20080
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: O.T. Environmental Issues
   An ice storm is raging as I write this e-mail. All my life I have experienced occasional ice storms 
during the winter months. Ice storms are not that unusual in Canada. An unusual phenomena has 
occurred during the last few years in regard to these ice storms. I have never experienced 
thunder and lightening during a snow fall before. In the last few winters I have noticed this very 
unusual phenomena. I am sure these things have happened before, but I have never noticed.
Rapter
Keith

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20081
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Talking About Freedom 
   Drugs can exercise a powerful hold over the human person. Witness Robert Downey Jr. 
   Obviously Mr. Downey, arrested again for drugs only three months after being released from 
prison, has made a mess of his life. But why is the government threatening to jail him for another 
five years? He has harmed no one else. He has done nothing to warrant imprisonment. 
   The government's war on drugs has had only indifferent success in reducing drug abuse. 
Consumption has long varied, irrespective of ongoing enforcement efforts. More than 80 million 
people, 15 million last year, have tried drugs despite increasingly draconian penalties. 
   Most are casual users who can and do quit. The threat of prosecution has undoubtedly 
discouraged casual use, but casual use is of minimal consequence. Three-fourths of present drug 
users, like Downey, are employed. Corporations, law firms, government agencies, and legislative 
bodies are full of people who once consumed drugs. Even presidents and presidents-elect have 
smoked marijuana without evident harm. 
   Where the drug laws are least effective is in stopping addicts, the 3.6 million people, like 
Downey, estimated to be dependent on drugs. 
   "The threat of prison has been eliminated for me," observed Downey after his release. "I know I 
can do time now." 
   If the drug laws won't stop someone like him, with so much to lose from doing drugs, who will 
they stop?
   Perhaps the greatest failure of the war on drugs is that it does little to protect kids. Over the last 
five years, teen demand for marijuana has fallen a bit, but that for ecstasy has doubled. Half of 
teens have tried illicit drugs. Nine out of 10 say it is fairly or very easy to obtain marijuana; nearly 
half say the same of cocaine. 
   Prohibition actually encourages consumption by children. Persistent lies about the impact of 
drugs - from "reefer madness" on - have undercut the government's credibility. The application of 
reduced criminal penalties to juveniles has encouraged drug gangs to rely on kids. And banning 
drugs has created a black market, leaving drug sales in the hands of the sort of people who 
actively market to children. 
   Unfortunately, the costs of the war on drugs are huge - $75 billion over the past five years, 25 
times the inflation-adjusted spending on Prohibition in the 1920s. 
   Moreover, there are now 2 million people in federal and state prisons. One-fourth of state and 
60 percent of federal prisoners are serving drug-related charges - yet three-fourths of them had 
no prior convictions for violent crimes. 
   We are also losing our status as a free people. Corruption bedevils police forces, court 
systems, the customs service, and even the military. 
   The lack of complaining witnesses means that drug offenses can be prosecuted only through 
police-state tactics: promiscuous wiretaps, intrusive searches, racial profiling, confiscatory 
property forfeitures, propaganda-laced television shows, militarized law enforcement, and 
mindless mandatory minimum sentences. 
   Although the Supreme Court recently tossed out traffic stops for narcotics, lawyers routinely talk 
about the "drug exception" to the Fourth Amendment. Mistaken drug raids regularly leave 
innocent dead in their wake. 
   Although there are people who consume drugs and then commit crimes, alcohol is by far the 
most criminogenic drug. Heroin and marijuana are more likely to make people passive. 
   Most of the violence associated with drugs is drug-law related - marketing disputes that cannot 
be peacefully resolved, as during Prohibition. 
   The violence spreads overseas to countries like Colombia. Absent America's ban on drug use, 
the drug trade would offer normal profits and attract normal businessmen. Today, in contrast, 
these societies are truly at war. 
   The sick also pay a price. Although doctors may prescribe morphine to treat pain, the federal 
government refuses to make a similar allowance for marijuana. 
   Yet, in my view, the evidence is overwhelming that for some people, marijuana is the best 
medicine available today. In short, the practical costs of the drug war outweigh any practical 
benefits. But the case of Robert Downey Jr. raises an even more fundamental moral issue. 
   Why should the government jail someone to prevent him from hurting himself? The moral 
argument for punishing a thief or murderer is clear. But not a drug user, especially when the vast 
majority of users are as responsible as any drinker. 
   The few who are "enslaved" by drugs still don't deserve prison. If Robert Downey Jr. can't do 
his job, then fire him for cause. If he drives a car while impaired, then punish him for driving under 
the influence. If he takes a drug that impairs his judgment and he hits someone, then jail him for 
assault. But don't imprison him simply for using drugs. 
   The unending presidential election has overshadowed an equally important result of Nov. 7 - 
voters' desire to chart an alternative drug strategy. 
   People across the country supported access to medical marijuana, endorsed treatment over 
punishment, restricted property forfeitures, and, in California's Mendocino County, approved 
limited marijuana decriminalization. 
   There is no easy solution for drug abuse, but one thing is clear: We should "call off the hounds," 
as Michael Levine, a former agent with the Drug Enforcement Agency, puts it. Drug abuse is a 
health, moral, and spiritual problem; it is time to stop treating it as a criminal problem. 
   "Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to 
his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is 
called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own 
sustenance." ~Thomas Jefferson: Legal Argument, 1770
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-12/20082
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: O.T. Immortal/Coast to Coast
   I received an e-mail from ancient manuscripts asking me to e-mail coast to coast on behalf of 
Glenn Kimball. Instead of e-mailing on behalf of Glenn Kimball I e-mailed on behalf of J.J. Dewey. 
Glenn Kimball has been on the radio show coast to coast a number of times. J.J. Dewey has 
never been on the radio show. This radio show has tens of millions of listeners.
   So, if you feel inclined, drop coast to coast an e-mail regarding J.J. and his book 'The Immortal'. 
The link is coasttocoastam@earthlink.net
Rapter
Keith

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20083
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: O.T. Immortal/Coast to Coast
   Heh, heh, heh. Thanks for the heads-up. I just emailed one off to Coast2Coast too.
Thanks, Keith.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20084
From: Diane Linen
Subject: (OT)David Boies - Gore's Lawyer
   This is something that I thought when I first saw David Boies; he reminds me of Abraham 
Lincoln. His nose and unruly hair. His face isn't as gaunt as Lincoln's but there is a small 
resemblance to me. He seems like an opposite of Lincoln in that I don't think he has Lincoln's 
integrity. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20085
From: xavier 
Subject: Re: will and determination
   I have had a thought about JJ4s question the other day.
   Will would be akin to principles, it is more abstract than an objective. An objective is concretely 
defined, whereas will is a general purpose, a sense of self and purpose that is not particularly tied 
to facts, but is very linked to principles.
   Determination would be the ability to carry out objectives, to hold one's factual purposes in the 
mind. Will would be the purer power of having the sense that one has purposes and principles to 
materialize, and the means to do it. (after all, will is supreme, so the only mean it needs is itself in 
the long term).

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20086
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Good & Evil
Rob says:
   JJ, I was thinking about the law all day today and I came to a few realizations. That the laws 
change as people evolve and that the laws help people to get together and learn about working 
as an union. If we didn't have laws, people would be doing their own thing where chaos and ego 
play. Is this correct?
   Laws governing morality in particular change as we evolve. It was just a few yeas ago that there 
were laws against common sexual practices and adultery. As mankind has evolved he has come 
to he conclusion that such laws are not necessary, but that we as individuals can govern 
ourselves in these matters. Adultery is still a harmful act, but we have reached a state where we 
do not need a written law to tell us it is wrong or what the punishment should be.
   Just a short time ago people were put to death for criticizing authorities, but now we realize that 
this has no place in an enlightened society.
   Even so what we consider as bad laws had their place for a certain level of consciousness of 
humanity and also many of our current laws will be seen as backward in a future age.
   Eventually our laws will reach relative perfection where little or no change will be necessary.
   I have enjoyed your comments on good and evil. For those of you who may be fairly new I 
might add that we have discussed this principle and the principle of duality quite a lot in the past. 
If you want to search the archive quit a lot of material should come up.
   Someone mentioned the Alice A. Bailey teaching that good is that which takes us toward 
evolution and evil is that which takes us away from it. I've always liked this idea, but let me 
present the principle in a little different light than I have in the past.
   Good and evil exist because creation exists, or we could say BECOMING exists.
   To put it in everyday terms we could say that if you are sitting around doing nothing then you 
are not creating and you are producing no good or evil. Now let us say you are tired of doing 
nothing and decide to build a house. The vision of the finished house is the dominating good that 
creates a magnetic pull on your energies causing you to work toward the finished house.
   As you proceed with the work of building the division of good and evil becomes obvious. All that 
transpires which aids you in the goal of finishing the house is good and all that hampers you is 
evil.
If your neighbor comes and lends you a hand for a few hours that is good.
If the neighbor steals a tool - that is evil.
If the bank makes you a loan for materials that is good.
If you get a batch of bad lumber that is evil.
If you get more done in a week than you expected that is good.
But if an emergency comes up and you have to miss a day's work that is evil.
   Granted that this may not be good and evil the way some look at it, but good and evil the way 
the literal religionist look at it is illusion. In the grand scheme of things good and evil has a very 
practical application.
   Where the life of God is there is Decision - Will - Creation. That which assists in furthering the 
creation of God is good and that which works against the creative purpose is evil.
   Therefore good intentions is not enough to be on the side of good.
   If your neighbor wants to help you build your house but goes to the wrong address then he is 
not really any help at all. Even so if we want to be on the side of good we must discover the Will 
and Purpose of God and work in harmony with it.
***
"Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
***
"In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
***
"Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
***
"It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."
~Invictus by William Ernest Henly
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20087
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: O.T. Environmental Issues
   Keith writes: "I have never experienced thunder and lightening during a snow fall before."
Hi Keith
   I have a couple of times in Iowa. The one I remember most was in March of l962. We were 
anxious for winter to realize that it was spring already and I think the lightning snow storms 
occurred a couple of times. I suppose it had something to do with the amount of humidity.
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20088
From: Rick Audette 
Subject: Re: Good & Evil
   If everything and everybody is the product of God, and a perfect God created only good, perfect 
things, then it stands to reason that nothing, which God created, is bad or evil. The fact that we 
have such concepts as bad or evil is largely due to our limited, narrow perspective of the whole. 
There is no such thing as absolute evil, for evil is in essence only, from certain viewpoints, a 
negative quality. It is a relative value indeed, what is evil in respect to one may be good in respect 
to another and vice versa. What we are dealing with, when talking about good and evil, is a 
question of contrast and its value for the world. Contrast gives us impact, meaning, language and 
structure. Things are most sharply measured or defined by their opposites. Keep in mind that 
these opposites are in fact the two sides of one coin. The "head" is no better or worse than the 
"tail". The good side of the coin is, after all, the side you want to see, face up, after the flip and it's 
not going to be good for the other guy in the toss. Our limited consciousness needs contrasts to 
aid us in navigation in a three dimensional world but, there is a catch. Our three dimensional 
world is only an illusion maintained by our limited consciousness. One feeds the other in an 
endless cycle that is hard to get out of. Higher beings don't have this problem because they 
always see both sides of the coin. As physical beings, we need contrasts as a language tool. 
That's fine as long as you can remember that the value of good and evil is relative and not 
absolute. One may argue that White is pure and that a white page is purer than one with black 
marks on it, but without the contrast created by writing with black lines, the page has less value in 
the nature of conveying meaning. 
One,
Rick
-- 
ICQ # 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
and http://petracity.intercosmos.com/index.html
The only really natural diet http://www.neanderthin.com
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20089
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Good & Evil
   Obfuscation, JJ.
   Evil is anything that converts life to death - No more, no less.
Jahnihah
   J J Dewey wrote: "Good and evil exist because creation exists, or we could say BECOMING 
exists.
<snip>
"If your neighbor comes and lends you a hand for a few hours that is good.
If the neighbor steals a tool - that is evil.
If the bank makes you a loan for materials that is good.
If you get a batch of bad lumber that is evil.
If you get more done in a week than you expected that is good.
But if an emergency comes up and you have to miss a day's work that is evil."
<snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20090
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: will and determination
   xavier wrote: "I have had a thought about JJ4s question the other day. Will would be akin to 
principles, it is more abstract than an objective. An objective is concretely defined, whereas will is 
a general purpose, a sense of self and purpose that is not particularly tied to facts, but is very 
linked to principles.
   "Determination would be the ability to carry out objectives, to hold one's factual purposes in the 
mind. Will would be the purer power of having the sense that one has purposes and principles to 
materialize, and the means to do it. (after all, will is supreme, so the only mean it needs is itself in 
the long term)."
   If will is supreme, then it becomes a war over who's will is more supreme than another's. Hence 
cometh the law, and force ensues, and life is converted unto death - because the will of men is 
not the will of God who exercises no force upon mankind. They simply obtain that which they BE - 
that which they abide inwardly - a natural consequence for their own will. Unless a person's will is 
congruent to God's, then they can not BE Gods.
Jahnihah

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20091
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Talking About Freedom
   Diane Linen wrote: "Drugs can exercise a powerful hold over the human person. Witness 
Robert Downey Jr."
   No. Drugs are inanimate. They have no will to speak of, therefore it has not power over us, but 
we merely give ourselves over to it and refuse to accept responsibility for that choice.
   It is precisely because of the false 'animation' of drugs that we have a war against it. Same 
thing with guns. How long would it take a gun to kill someone, if no one picked it up ? Forever. 
Yet, we have a war on guns.
   This society doesn't take responsibility for it's own actions. We blame inanimate objects for our 
woes, institute laws to protect us from inanimate objects and call it a 'War' so as to dictate force 
and control over the masses UNDER THE LAW by a relative few. This type of abuse of control 
and power is why laws are ineffectual PERIOD. Laws can not control the lawless, so it can not be 
potent; the abuse of the law makes everyone disrespect the law, so everyone becomes lawless, 
and the law becomes impotent.
   Will is stronger than law - in every instance. Our ability to change our will to become congruent 
to Father is far above law. Our ability to change our will contrary to Father is above the law. If we 
convert life to death by exercising out will contrary to Father's, then we are inherently evil. If we 
exercise our will to convert death to life, then we are congruent to Father's will, and we are 
inherently good.
   Law can not create this type of environment. Only our will can, and the influence from Father to 
show us our options so that we might exercise our will so we can BE congruent with His will. 
Presuming we do so, we then create life, not death.
Jahnihah

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-13/20092
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   It was a simple button push error. WHO CARES !!! Get over it, don't complain and assert laws 
because I don't care about laws. Stuff like this and the continual whanking about it just makes me 
wanna post a JPG just to piss you off and see what kind of lack of control you folks have that a 
little code would give you reason to banter on and on about nothing.
   BTW, this is OT for you authoritarians who desire to dictate your will over others.
Jahnihah
Rick Audette wrote:
"re: HTML text
Spiritweb asks that we not use HTML text, in their general guidelines.
For those that may have forgotten our host's rules, I have copied and pasted them below."
> Mailing List Guidelines
   "Every list has its own mood and atmosphere, which even changes through time and list-
operator. Some lists are like families where personal experiences are shared, whereas other lists 
act like a news-magazine where a lot of information is posted."
<snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20093
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Evil Forces
   I am pleased to say that in large part I agree with Jahnihah's statement:
   "Evil is anything that converts life to death - No more, no less."
   While it would take a book to paint a full picture of the principle of good and evil that statement 
does give a good view of the principle.
   I will expand on this idea in a way that perhaps has not occurred to most. Paul gives us an 
interesting scripture in this regard
   "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
   "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against 
the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph 6:11-12
   Let me give you a more accurate translation from the Concordant Bible:
   "Put on the panoply of God to enable you to stand up to the stratagems of the Adversary, for it 
is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the 
world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."
   Before I give my thoughts on this let us see what you think.
Question:
   There is a basic four square of evil which the disciples of light mist deal with.
   They are:
(1) Principalities or sovereignties.
(2) Powers or authorities
(3) Rulers of the darkness of this world
(4) Spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places."
   Who are these four categories of evil? Why are they evil and what can we do to overcome 
them?
   What could be the evil in the celestial realms?
"We turn not older with years, but newer every day."
Emily Dickenson
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20094
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: OT - Christmas eclipse to provide rare holiday light show
   For them north americans, 25th is the day to look up in the skies :)
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/12/12/christmas.eclipse/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/12/12/christmas.eclipse/map.html
Love,
Samu
_______________
Samu Karlsson 
eMail: samu3@dlc.fi
http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3
Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine...
but you already know this, don?t you?

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20095
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Do Unto Others
Jahnihah writes:
   "It was a simple button push error. WHO CARES !!! Get over it, don't complain and assert laws 
because I don't care about laws. Stuff like this and the continual whanking about it just makes me 
wanna post a JPG just to piss you off and see what kind of lack of control you folks have that a 
little code would give you reason to banter on and on about nothing."
JJ
   Questions
(1) Why would you want to interfere with the freedom of those on the list to enjoy the list 
according to its purpose when you claim to honor free will?
(2) Do you not think it wise to practice the spirit of love as taught by Christ rather than show this 
bitter side of yourself? We are your neighbors. How about loving your neighbors as yourself?
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20096
From: "Robin Kennon" 
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   JJ wrote: "There is a basic four square of evil which the disciples of light mist deal with.
   "They are:
"(1) Principalities or sovereignties."
   These would be the authoritarian, powerful governments of the world. They are evil because 
they try to take away our power of decision and expect us to obey their laws simply because they 
are bigger and more powerful than we, as individuals are. They say certain things are so, and we 
are supposed to accept that blindly, without question. We can fight against them both individually 
and collectively by questioning, organizing ourselves into grassroots groups to change things by 
boycotts, letter writing campaigns etc. Things like environmental issues, nuclear disarmament, 
civil liberties and human rights issues are areas where principalities and sovereignties exert their 
influence.
"(2) Powers or authorities"
   These would be the heads of the above mentioned governments. Presidents, Kings, Heads of 
State, Prime Ministers etc. Also this would include all the agencies that spin off these national 
organizations, such as state and local government agencies and positions. Mayors, school 
boards, police departments, judges, state licensing organizations etc. would all be part of this 
group. In America, at least, we have the right to vote out of office those that we feel are evil, or at 
least are not working for the good of the many. Considering our latest election though, I'm not 
sure that this is all that effective a way to bring about change. Of course, all the arguments about 
elections being decided by a small minority of citizens plays a role in this "right" of ours too and in 
the effectiveness of this method to overcome evil. Another area that comes to mind is the 
authority of the church and it's leaders and how powerful a hold they have on some people who 
think they are very religious and righteous. They are so blinded by the beast of authority 
disguised as the church, that they can't see the truth when it is right before their very eyes.
"(3) Rulers of the darkness of this world"
   I'm taking a guess here that this refers to the dark brothers. They are evil because they seek to 
separate us from our true mission of returning in oneness to the God within. They detract us from 
our goals and send us down paths that lead us away from, rather than back to God. Using our 
powers of discernment and seeking soul contact may be the best defense we have against such 
evil.
"(4) Spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places."
   I really don't have a clue about this one, but when I looked up the word 'principalities" in my 
dictionary ( the Second College Edition of The American Heritage Dictionary), the 3rd definition 
said "Theol. One of the nine orders of angels." If one of the nine orders of angels, of which I know 
nothing about, has to do with principalities, or a position of authority, then perhaps this is a place 
where wickedness could be found in celestial places?? Can anyone point me toward any more 
information about the orders of angels? This is a totally new concept to me.
   Anyway, all the above are just my rambling thoughts this morning. I'd bet that some of you out 
there have much more coherent thoughts to share with us! I'll look forward to reading those.
Love and light,
Robin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20097
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: OT - Christmas eclipse to provide rare holiday light show
   Samu writes: "For them north americans, 25th is the day to look up in the skies :)"
Hi Samu
   I almost forgot - the December new moon is on Christmas day this year.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20098
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Do you really believe you will convince anyone here if you act like this? When you use this 
mailing list you are using someone else's property. That property is Spiritweb's mail servers. They 
have a right to dictate how those servers are used. The post on HTML was to inform us all of the 
desire of the server owners who allow us to use their machines and bandwidth. This is not 
authoritarian, it is an exercise of private property rights. As those do not require laws I don't see 
why you have a problem with them.
Travis
   "It was a simple button push error. WHO CARES !!! Get over it, don't complain and assert laws 
because I don't care about laws." 
<snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20099
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Do Unto Others
   J J Dewey wrote:
Jahnihah writes:
   "It was a simple button push error. WHO CARES !!! Get over it, don't complain and assert laws 
because I don't care about laws. Stuff like this and the continual whanking about it just makes me 
wanna post a JPG just to piss you off and see what kind of lack of control you folks have that a 
little code would give you reason to banter on and on about nothing."
JJ
"Questions
"(1) Why would you want to interfere with the freedom of those on the list to enjoy the list 
according to its purpose when you claim to honor free will?"
   Oh JJ. I speak out against the will of the whole to assert laws against one, but you say that's 
'GOOD'. You attourn my statement above concerning my OWN will - that I will not be bound by 
your laws, which infringes upon no one else's agency - and also that I too can complain about all 
of the complaining, and you have a PROBLEM????
   You do notice that 4 of those 5 fingers you are pointing, are pointing at you, right ?
   Just because a bunch of people agree to commit sin together, does not mean it ceases to be 
sin. I honor free agency indeed, and proclaim the truth; and no person here is lacking choice now 
than they were before because of it.
"(2) Do you not think it wise to practice the spirit of love as taught by Christ rather than show this 
bitter side of yourself?"
   right............. and the bitter side of everyone else who go on and on about Jahnihah or 'html' 
blither (and your own replies, I might add, are included) and NOW you decide to speak up about it 
merely because it is me who FINALLY said something about it ??? 'Shut up you hypocrite.' 
comes to mind, but I'll refrain from saying it though.
   "We are your neighbors."
   My neighbors don't personally target me when all those around me are at least as guilty. Think 
long and hard about that, JJ, because those who call themselves my neighbors and prove 
otherwise are wolves in sheep's clothing - certainly such are enemies.
   You speak of love, yet you show little but feigned politeness towards those who do not agree 
with you. I may finally rant after a week+ of incessant email messages (which I readily delete 
because I exercise my agency instead of responding with a complaint for every complaint 
posted), but I don't target people to attempt to discredit them with attournments as you do. You 
WILL TAKE NOTICE that I never said a thing until the asinine laws came up. My neighbors don't 
exert force upon me, just as I don't exert force upon them. To defend myself against the attempts 
of others to exert laws & force upon me is consistent with what I have posted all along. Weren't 
you paying attention, or are you so oblivious to free agency that you don't recognize 'defense' 
when you see it ?
   "How about loving your neighbors as yourself?"
   Ask my neighbors if I love them.
   While you spend only 80 hours a week working (and for $$$), and charge money for that which 
you yourself claim is sacred, I spend all my time (24/7) engaged in my Father's work for my 
neighbor's welfare - without compensation, and freely give what I freely received from Heaven 
because I know to defile that which is sacred by attempts to get gain is priestcraft - a sin clearly 
defined in the scriptures you say you know so well.
   Now, why don't you spend a day or week with me before you make accusations about things 
you know nothing about, and feign attempt to flatter me with mere words, or to attourn my words 
and intent into that which has the opposite meaning ??? I guess THIS is how you would have 
others treat you, right ???
   The truth is a double-edged sword, JJ. You swing it, and then it lops off your own head.
   "Do unto others" is the subject.
   You attourn my words. Is THIS your example of 'do unto others' ?
   You ignore valid points to feign perpetuate your paradigm. Is THIS your example of 'do unto 
others' ?
   You claim everyone who says 'you' in a sentence that disagrees with you is 'an accuser' or an 
'enemy'. Is THIS your example of 'do unto others' ?
   You target those who disagree with you instead of listening to their paradigm which you have 
not considered before in an attempt to discredit them to feign support you old paradigm. Is THIS 
your example of 'do unto others' ?
   You blatantly disregard your own rules making no apology for it, thereby manifesting your 
inward character: tyrannical. Is THIS your example of 'do unto others' ?
   You desire to be a leader, and be lauded above others - those who you 'call' your neighbors - 
instead of serving them as Jesus Christ did who might make all men equal unto Himself. Is THIS 
your example of 'do unto others' ?
   You say one thing, and then DO another. Is THIS your example of 'do unto others'?
   You say you love these people here, and desire to bring them into unity with YOU, not Jesus 
Christ, yet all of the above observations are what you exude contrary to Jesus Christ and His 
precepts. These people who are lulled into following you had better take a look at these behaviors 
for what they are before deciding who loves them, and who is 'bitter', all your attournments 
notwithstanding. Charity is the PURE LOVE of Jesus Christ. Charity is a complex set of attributes, 
not just 'love'. Charity includes ALL of God's attributes, and ANGER is ONE of them, though it 
certainly is not the focal point. Charity does not exercise the least degree of unrighteous 
dominion, but JJ Dewey espouses a 'perfect' use of unrighteous dominion contrary to Charity. 
D&C 121 34-46. Is THIS your example of 'do unto others' ?
   Now, please do not think I am railing on you. While I am passionate and brazen, these ARE 
things which are obvious to anyone who desires to look at them. These are your examples, JJ. 
This is apparently what you ARE - your BEing - in the end after all has been said. Is THIS your 
example of 'do unto others' ?
   Now perhaps everyone has a better idea about why I dispute incongruence, and why I find a 
great deal of it here. If you want to teach me, then teach me something other than what you ARE 
- if you can - but don't expect me to accept such manifestations like the ones above.
Peace & Love - and hoping to see repentance where it's due.
Jahnihah

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20100
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Do Unto Others
   Editor's Note: Repeat post of No. 20099


Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20101
From: "Robert G. Parent" 
Subject: Re: environmental solutions
   A thought on the environmental solutions. I do agree that there is environmental technology out 
there to help the Earth, and that it is coming out. OUt west somewhere--I can't remember where--
they are building alternative fuel cars and fuel stations. These cars aren't full alternative vehicles, 
but hybrids. It is a start. The solution for the environment, I think, will be in business ( supply and 
demand.) 
   What I think is the different between will and determination is will is the thought of life and 
determination is the fire of life. 
Rob
   J J Dewey writes: "I never did comment on the following questions on global warming. Better 
late than never.
   "The Questions
   "Another hot issue is Global Warming. Some make a good argument that this presents us with 
a real problem and others say that the scientists making such a claim are not real hard scientists, 
but activists with minimal science skills and that many good scientists say the evidence is not 
there." <snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20102
From: AUBREY GARCIA
Subject: Another someone trying to help create a better world 
AUBREY ANTONIO GARCIA PERSONAL DATA SHEET/ RESUME
8617 Lorento St. Panama City Beach FL. 32408
   With a work personality of an E.N.T.J.(M.B.T.I) and behavior affected by my AB positive blood 
type (Ketsuekigata), both found in only 5%of the populous, I am forever in the pursuit of 
GREATNESS, a purpose I only recently accepted for it was only recently that I realized such 
things, as the blind fold of self delusion and failed education system has come off to show me 
how I and many others in the world have been let down!, that THOSE WHO ARE NOT INSPIRED 
TO DO MORE WITH THEIR LIVES WILL DO LESS. Is my own rekindled inspiration enough to 
change the world?, maybe not, but I will look to do my part and let no one say I did not try!
   The Work that I have done does not even begin to represent me for I have been living a lie 
when I am really a suppressed disadvantaged genius on his way to becoming a full being of 4th 
density with or without the help of humanity. On the way of becoming smarter I realize the benefit 
of assistance and opportunity, both have been missing from my life for reasons of self delusion 
and the selfishness of others. Now and forever I am seeking someone/s and somewhere/s to 
prove and improve myself and the world. BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME TO 
MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD AND TOMORROWS NOT PROMISED!(To much of my 
life has already been like a broken record a song of wasted days and wasted nights) 
   Though I have other work experience from my early childhood I will begin my work history from 
when I was at the legal age of 16. My most noticeable contribution to my nation was enlisting into 
the United States Army National Guard at age 17, and I stayed in this service until age 22 when I 
came to realize I was working with SLOBS, SLACKERS, and PEOPLE WHO DO NOT CARE, 
furthermore individuals who would not change and said for me to change things I would have to 
have more rank, which could take years when the changes needed to take place now!, I finally 
pleaded my case to the White House thinking they would do something instead I got In more 
trouble by breaking the chain of command and incidents involving other government agencies. 
Now in the year 2000 I am discharged under honorable conditions. Realizing that it is not all 
completely the governments fault as our world is being overpopulated and destroyed by ignorant 
people who if we do nothing they will take us down with them. Poor people, poor minds are the 
result of poor government we need to become smarter so, I still carry on as a soldier, a patriot, 
and a Christian who will continue to keep his oath to defend TRUTH, JUSTICE, LIBERTY, 
EQUALITY, FREEDOM, the Constitution, and the American DREAM.
EMPLOYMENT HISTORY
1)March 92 to Aug.92 worked as Ride operator at Miracle Strip Amusement Park 
12000 Front Beach Rd. P.C.B. FL. 32407
2)Dec.24, 1994 to Dec. 99 Enlisted in the National Guard as a 63B light wheel vehicle mechanic, 
also some training as 92A automated logistics specialist 
3121 Lisenby Ave. Panama City FL. 32405.
3)Oct. 95/ Dec.95 worked as assistant manager also pizza chef at Pizza Inn at Applefield??Ts 
2900 west 23rd st. Panama City FL. 32405.
4)Nov.95to Dec95 worked as cashier also cook at Arby??Ts 17002 Front Beach Rd. Panama City 
Beach FL.32413.
5)Dec.95 to Aug.97 worked as Head installer at Pep Boy??Ts automotive 821 west 23rd St. 
Panama City FL. 32405.
6)Aug.97 to May99 worked as tire tech. at Big 10 tires 721 west 23rd St. Panama City FL. 32405.
7)June99 to July99 worked as security guard at Spartan Securities One Park Ave. New York NY. 
10016.
8)Oct.99 to Nov.99 worked as a laborer at Labor Finders 1517 Frankford Ave. Panama City FL. 
32405.
9)Nov99 to Jan.00 worked as electronic sales at Toy??Ts R Us 809 west 23rd St. Panama City 
FL 32405.
10) Jan.00 to Feb.00 worked as Auto Parts Deliverer at Pep Boys automotive Panama City FL 
32405
   Gaps in my work history are the result of taking time off, side jobs working for friends, family, 
and searching for a better future.
EDUCATION and TRAINING 
   High School Graduate Bay High School 1204 Harrison Ave. Panama City FL.32505 Air force 
R.O.T.C/Aeronautics Bay High School 1204 Harrison Ave. Panama City FL. 32405. Duel enrolled 
at Gulf Coast College 94 Electrical Wiring Haney Vocational Technical Center 3016 Hwy. 77 
Panama City FL. 32405. 2 semesters in 94 63B light wheel vehicle mechanic Fort Jackson SC. 
10 weeks in 96 Security Guard City Investigative Security School 303west 42nd St New York NY. 
10036 May 99
ACTIVITIES and other SELF REALZATIONS
   Born Wednesday April 27, 1977 I am a hybrid American Christian Utopian My blood type is AB 
POS. and my Zodiac signs are Snake/Taurus, Doshas: kapha68/vata66/pitta63, Enneagram: 
motivator/thinker/reformer. HT 5ft 6in Wt. 130lb, eyes brown, hair black. Without better 
opportunity I will endeavor to attend a college to receive an Interdisciplinary Bachelor??Ts 
Degree in Social Science so I can teach my own form of study(Reality Dynamics) to the military 
the world and beyond. My other Hobbies and interest include, writing, drawing, the Arts, 
Japanese culture, wisdom, psychology, sociology, world history, metaphysics, nutrition, astrology, 
pimpology, religion, conscious evolution/ ascension, pondering the unknown universe and more. I 
attend study groups like Toast Masters, Emerald Coast Poets, Conscious Evolution, and various 
other functions when I have time as I consider myself to be one of the seemingly few concerned 
citizens left in the world, an activist of sorts also Visionary, Dreamer, Endangered species of 
human. Also Sumari (SETH). Living by Faith, Hope, and Love, if I die it??Ts this worlds and many 
people I could have helped loss not mine. 
REFERENCES 
   References seem irrelevant, though I am young I know to much to do to little, this responsibility 
pushes me to make myself known to everyone. It is the people who do not know about you who 
cannot help you. GREAT PEOPLE EXIST SO GREATER PEOPLE CAN TAKE THEIR PLACE 
WHO ARE WE TO DENIE OURSELVES GREATNESS!?.
   ONE OF THE WORST THINGS IN LIFE IS TO BE SMART AND HATED FOR IT.(Part 1 of 3 of 
it??Ts a wonderful life Charlie Brown the Pimp Trilogy)What is smart? More important what is 
stupid? Without the use of a dictionary an often obsolete device of understanding in ever 
changing universe that many do not have access anyway. I will be using simple metaphysics 
along with simple terms and explanations that should be more to the readers liking so as not to 
bore you or waste time.
   STUPID: simply means UNINFORMED, one/s who make uninformed decisions (note it has 
been proven there is always a better way) 
   My given name is Aubrey A. Garcia (surname Gilron). I have found myself to be smart and 
hated for it. What is HATE, but simply a natural reaction to OVERPOPULATION and lack of 
SUPPLIES, with this out of the way, lets understand LOVE simply a response to a need, even 
better could it be called TRUE ATHORITY?; That all things belong to that which gives the best 
response to each things individual need. (LOVE and HATE the two great manipulators that play 
with our HOPES and FEARS)
   My story is like many others who come from unregulated birth, but many others you will not 
hear from for many others do not know they are smart and/or cannot yet speak/communicate to 
the likes of others around them, you may also be one of the many geniuses.
   GENIUS 1) Somebody who knows something beneficial that others do not. Don??Tt we all 
know something others do not, doesn??Tt that make us all geniuses? (The second explanation 
may explain why your genius is overlooked)
   GENIUS 2) Someone who knows something that others do not and goes out of their way to 
show others how smart they are if only to find out how stupid they themselves are to become 
smarter than they were.
   What causes someone to be Smart (WISE) is still a mystery today regardless of all 
explanations new or old. Philosophy, Science, Religion, all have answers, but smart is what it is 
and it has always been hated by its opposite stupid 
   (IGNORANCE) it is stupid to hate.
   Smart people are BENEFICIAL people they bring about CHANGE some good some bad 
depending on how that smart person was treated. Smart people create CURES and poisons, they 
are worshiped, and they are assassinated.HISTORY SHOWS OUR MISTAKES THAT WE DARE 
TO REPEAT.
   Smart doesn??Tt mean you are smart at all, it just means your more informed on a subject/s so 
less informed stupid people call you smart. We are all Smart in some aspect and stupid in other 
ways a kind of natural equality/respect for each others strengths and weaknesses set forth by 
Creation itself, it is a respect that has been diminishing, since the development of JOBS, 
MONEY, and EDUCATION system that causes JELOSY, GREED, and STEROTYPES allowing 
letters, numbers, and degrees to show someone??Ts 
   POTENTIAL. Potential is like puberty with its early and late bloomers. Tests and degrees do not 
prove you are smart or that you will remember what you??Tve learned, such as the 3rd grade 
ability to memorize a lesson just long enough to pass a test, pass and forget, pass and 
forget.FAVORTISM AND ON THE JOB TRAINING IS WHAT IT EVENTUALLY COMES TO. 
   The loss, control, and manipulation of information IGNORANCE! Is the down fall of humanity 
and the noble institutions that quickly become corrupt. Like the return of God information has 
come back as foretold in prophecy to the trumpet of ??oyou??Tve got mail???, the internet 
returning information truth (WISDOM). Now the Iron curtain of ignorance is coming down and our 
society, the way we think is in MELT DOWN. Credentials and colorful resumes are no longer 
enough to satisfy STATUS QUO, to the discern of those unfortunate many who faced a dog eat 
dog system of who had the highest grades, silver spoon, and/or brown nosed etc. With more 
selections and less cover up we are truly realizing who is most wise, most knowledgeable, most 
intelligent, and educated. The 3levels of understanding in this 3rd dimension ripening for its 4th 
dimensional metamorphosis and its old school education all serving a part of a bigger puzzle.
   Who is more informed /less informed, who truly cares or who just pretends to get money, that 
green paper has run our lives for to long in this infinite battle we are born into of RIGHT VS. 
MIGHT. Fantasy is based on over exaggerated reality, the myth that wisdom comes with age is 
false, wisdom is everywhere in everything young, old, person, place, thing, infinite dimensions, 
and beyond.    *note not to over look experiences that does come with age, you can learn from 
others mistakes and tell others of your own mistakes that you wasn??Tt wise enough to prevent.
   Stupid people are a danger to themselves and others , they put the worst strain on smart 
peoples lives Esp. stupid people with power/authority, which is why many smart people become 
teachers Etc. hoping they can restore balance. In fact the only reason we lose, or do not gain 
something is because we are not smart enough to get it or keep it. How many more things are 
you willing to lose before you decide to get smarter? IN LIFE YOU ARE BECOMING MORE 
USEFUL OR MORE USELESS what??Ts it gonna be?!
   So if I am not smart show me what is so I can reflect it and if I am smart why don??Tt you 
reflect me?
   If I am not hated then why do so many government agencies, people turn their backs on me, or 
just waste my time!, when I??Tm just trying to be a useful productive member of society? For 
months I??Tve been trying when tomorrows not promised, but fear not like the song goes this 
knight in white satin will carry on and keep going the distance(cake). THIS IS NOT A JOKE! It is 
about the well being of us all and the ones who CARE enough to get us there. Email 
AubreyGarcia@AOL.com 8617 Lorento St. Panama City beach FL 32408 
   THANK YOU FOR READING 

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20103
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   If I go into someone else's house, I will abide by their rules and expect others to do the same in 
mine.
Diane
   privacy wrote: "It was a simple button push error. WHO CARES !!! Get over it, don't complain 
and assert laws because I don't care about laws. Stuff like this and the continual whanking about 
it just makes me wanna post a JPG just to piss you off and see what kind of lack of control you 
folks have that a little code would give you reason to banter on and on about nothing.
   "BTW, this is OT for you authoritarians who desire to dictate your will over others."
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20104
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   It sure doesn't take much to push your buttons. You sound like one very angry dude with a bad 
temper who really enjoys 'pissing' people off. A very loving attitude. 
Diane

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-14/20105
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Travis Tabbal wrote: "Do you really believe you will convince anyone here if you act like this?"
   Travis !! So NICE to hear from you again. What I believe is that the truth should be said, and if a 
person be true to him/herself, they will become congruent to the truth - notwithstanding my 
'actions' as others are want to perceive them.
   You are the type of person who believes wearing a tie to work improves performance,
   "When you use this mailing list you are using someone else's property. That property is 
Spiritweb's mail servers."
   No, actually my Father's 'property' is being sent over the Department of Defense's PRIVATE 
communications system, and it doesn't belong to Spiritweb at all.
   "They have a right to dictate how those servers are used."
   No, they have a privilege to use this system, just as I do. They may desire to exercise their 
proprietary rules, but it has no bearing on my own choices or what I send. It is not required to 
receive what I sent, but they did agree to receive it.
   Now, I have my opinions, and I came to see if someone else's opinions could teach me 
something, but if I explain what my opinions are, or express how I actually feel, I get told some 
erroneous facts about who owns what, and how those errors conclude that I am somehow 
violating something. When people can play fair because that is their nature, then stupid rules and 
procedures are totally unnecessary. Get it ???
   "The post on HTML was to inform us all of the desire of the server owners who allow us to use 
their machines and bandwidth."
   Great. Exactly how many messages did it take to communicate this ??? 30 ??? and it's end 
result was an additional bunch of rules and procedures. Now THAT is what I would call an abuse 
of bandwidth.
   "This is not authoritarian,"
   uh.......look up the definition and tell me all those rules and procedures aren't 'authoritarian'.
   "it is an exercise of private property rights."
   You don't HAVE any 'private property rights', so to attempt to exert them is futile.
   "As those do not require laws I don't see why you have a problem with them."
   If they don't require laws, then WHY ARE THEY BEING ENFORCE BY THEM ???
Have a day.
J
   ps - you expect me to follow the 'rules' when you can't even follow them yourself??? Next time 
post this as 'OT'. LOL !!!! Ohhh........ it's a good thing I don't care about your rules, otherwise I'd 
be a hypocrite for not posting this as 'OT' myself. LMAO !!!

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20106
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Diane Linen writes: "If I go into someone else's house, I will abide by their rules and expect 
others to do the same in mine."
   When you come into mine, you will find there are no rules, but if you can't behave as if you 
were in your own house, you won't be invited back.
   Do you think you can follow the rules yourself, Diane ??? You didn't post this as 'OT'.
   Should I post a reply complaining about it, or attempting to get you to comply, or brow beat you 
for it ??? Maybe I should repost the rules a few dozen more times and post my displeasure with 
your 'lack of respect' ???
J

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20107
From: privacy 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Diane Linen wrote: "It sure doesn't take much to push your buttons."
   Nah, just 30 some odd posts and a bunch of rules - all because of a little html code at the 
bottom of an email - SHEESH are you people anal. Just remember, Diane, that you posted some 
replies of you own where I didn't. So who exactly is getting their buttons pushed again ????
   "You sound like one very angry dude"
   I can be.
   "with a bad temper"
   I have my moments.
   "who really enjoys 'pissing' people off."
   I do get a kick out of teasing hypocritical people by bring their attention to it, yes.
   "A very loving attitude."
   As if you knew me......
   BTW, this would be the second time you posted a reply to this thread that was 'OT' without 
posting it correctly with 'OT' in the subject header. How many times are you going to disrespect 
the list rules and server owners, those poor little bandwidths, and the DoD, Diane ???
   Geez. I guess I should waste a half hour of my time filing a complaint in accordance to the rules 
just so you finally learn your lesson about being so disrespectful, huh ???
   hehehe........ trust me, my buttons aren't being pushed, Diane. I would not even consider taking 
the time to make a complaint - because I don't care, and also that would be following the rules !! 
LOL !!!
J

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20108
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Moving onward was one of the topics.
Diane
   privacy wrote: "Do you think you can follow the rules yourself, Diane ??? You didn't post this as 
'OT'. Should I post a reply complaining about it, or attempting to get you to comply, or brow beat 
you for it ??? Maybe I should repost the rules a few dozen more times and post my displeasure 
with your 'lack of respect' ???"

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20109
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   privacy wrote: "BTW, this would be the second time you posted a reply to this thread that was 
'OT' without posting it correctly with 'OT' in the subject header. How many times are you going to 
disrespect the list rules and server owners, those poor little bandwidths, and the DoD, Diane ???"
   Moving onward was one of the topics.
Diane

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20110
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   privacy wrote: "the bottom of an email - SHEESH are you people anal. Just remember, Diane, 
that you posted some replies of you own where I didn't. So who exactly is getting their "
   I am free to reply to whatever I wish. I take no joy in arguing and I love peace above strife. You 
attack and snipe at people and then retreat. I'm too tired and too sick to care what you say or 
think right now. 
Adios.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20111
From: "Jennifer Hampson" <
Subject: Re: OT - Christmas eclipse to provide rare holiday light show
   New moon is in Capricorn at 4 degrees at 4.21am on Tuesday 26 December. It's also a partial 
eclipse.
   Now what does it all mean???***!!!!
Jennifer

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20112
From: Diane Linen
Subject: (OT) Jupiter's Eye Seen Watching Io In Stunning New Photo
   http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0012/13jupio/
   This image taken by NASA's Cassini spacecraft on Dec. 1, 2000, shows details of Jupiter's 
Great Red Spot and other features that were not visible in images taken earlier, when Cassini 
was farther from Jupiter. 
   The picture is a color composite, with enhanced contrast, taken from a distance of 28.6 million 
kilometers (17.8 million miles). It has a resolution of 170 kilometers (106 miles) per pixel. Jupiter's 
closest large moon, Io, is visible at left. 
   The edges of the Red Spot are cloudier with ammonia haze than the spot's center is. The 
filamentary structure in the center appears to spiral outward toward the edge. NASA's Galileo 
spacecraft has previously observed the outer edges of the Red Spot to be rotating rapidly 
counterclockwise, while the inner portion was rotating weakly in the opposite direction. Whether 
the same is true now will be answered as Cassini gets closer to Jupiter and interior cloud features 
become sharper. Cassini will make its closest approach to Jupiter, at a distance of about 10 
million kilometers (6 million miles), on Dec. 30, 2000. 
   The Red Spot region has changed in one notable way over the years: In images from NASA's 
Voyager and Galileo spacecraft, the area surrounding the Red Spot is dark, indicating relatively 
cloud-free conditions. Now, some bright white ammonia clouds have filled in the clearings. This 
appears to be part of a general brightening of Jupiter's cloud features during the past two 
decades. 
   Jupiter has four large moons and an array of tiny ones. In this picture, Io is visible. The white 
and reddish colors on Io's surface are due to the presence of different sulfurous materials while 
the black areas are due to silicate rocks. Like the other large moons, Io always keeps the same 
hemisphere facing Jupiter, called the sub-Jupiter hemisphere. The opposite side, much of which 
we see here, is the anti-Jupiter hemisphere. Io has more than 100 active volcanoes spewing very 
hot lava and giant plumes of gas and dust. Its biggest plume, Pele, is near the bottom left edge of 
Io's disk as seen here. 
   Cassini is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space 
Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in 
Pasadena, manages the Cassini mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. 
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20113
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Loving Our Neighbors
   Jahnihah, you are a piece of work. You throw out more false accusations in less space than 
anyone I have ever met. You are good at throwing out accusations, but I do not even see an 
attempt to back them up. Do you really believe this is the path that Christ would have you follow? 
Is there even one person in your life that feels the pure love of the Master radiating from you?
   Let me pick one accusation that should be easy if your assessment of me is correct.
Jahnihah
   "You say one thing, and then DO another."
JJ
   Give me even one example of this without using a nebulous, angry or fallaciously worded 
attack.
   I am a big believer in following that which I teach and if I learn of a flaw here I will be happy to 
work on it.
   You accuse me of betraying that which is sacred because I labor for money whereas you claim 
to be squeaky clean because you say you work 7 days a week 24 hours a day in "your neighbor's 
welfare" receiving no money at all.
   I would be interested in exploring whether or not you practice what you preach here.
   Where do you get your money to buy food, clothing and housing? Unless you have savings or 
an inheritance it would seem that you are receiving money for some type of work you are doing. 
You are also online and have computer access and this costs money. How do you pay for this?
   I suspect that if you answer this truthfully that the finger of accusation you pointed at me will 
turn upon yourself.
   Or perhaps you are living off the mercy of reluctant friends. If this is the case then consider this 
scripture:
D&C 42:42 Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments 
of the laborer.
   If you are not laboring to earn your own way (which you claim is hypocrisy in me) then (unless 
you have a nest egg) someone else is laboring for you. This runs contrary to the scripture here 
which you claim to believe. You may be working at calling all to your version of repentance, but if 
you are idle to works that provide you with bread and garments then this is not in harmony with 
the scripture.
   You issue this challenge:
   "If you want to teach me, then teach me something other than what you ARE - if you can -"
   I do not recall teaching anything about what I am, except one who is attempting to be a disciple 
of the Christ.
   You want me to teach you something. OK - I will attempt to teach you something that appears 
to be something we all need to hear.
   In my last post I mentioned the importance of Loving our neighbors as ourselves and pointed 
out to you that we are your neighbors with the hope that you would show more love and civility 
toward the people on the list.
   On this suggestion you made the following response:
   "My neighbors don't personally target me when all those around me are at least as guilty."
JJ
   No one has targeted you. You have accused without cause and others have defended 
themselves.
Jahnihah
   "Think long and hard about that, JJ, because those who call themselves my neighbors and 
prove otherwise are wolves in sheep's clothing - certainly such are enemies."
JJ
   It appears that you see the loving people on this list as your enemies. That is sad indeed.
Jahnihah
   "My neighbors don't exert force upon me, just as I don't exert force upon them."
JJ
   No one has exerted any force on you. You do not have to be here. Diane said it well:
   " If I go into someone else's house, I will abide by their rules and expect others to do the same 
in mine."
   You may not think of this list as a home, but many here do see members as "family" and 
"neighbors" and thus it is a home to many. By not honoring the rules of the house we call Keys is 
violating the agency of others just as much as the pushy salesman who knocks on a door and 
then pushes his way in the house and forces the occupants to listen to his pitch.
Jahnihah
   "To defend myself against the attempts of others to exert laws & force upon me is consistent 
with what I have posted all along."
JJ
   You are exerting much more force in violating of the free will of the people on the list than 
anyone is toward you. No one is forcing you to be here, but we as members are currently forced 
to endure your unjust accusations and bitter imaginary complaints.
   You might want to ask yourself this question?
   Why is it that on every list you join you have this same problem? Are all people your enemies? 
Is there even one person who is worthy of love and kindness from you?
Jahnihah
   "Ask my neighbors if I love them."
JJ
   Jesus gave a great example of what a neighbor is in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Let me 
quote:
Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I 
do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:26-27 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering 
said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy 
strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luke 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luke 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and 
fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving 
him half dead. 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw 
him, he passed by on the other side.
Luke 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and 
passed by on the other side.
Luke 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw 
him, he had compassion on him,
Luke 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on 
his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luke 10:35-36 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to 
the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come 
again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell 
among the thieves?
Luke 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do 
thou likewise.
   Because Jesus was teaching love in the context His question could have been worded: "Which 
now of these three, thinkest thou, showed love unto him that fell among the thieves?"
   Three people here had an opportunity to show love to the wounded man. The first two were a 
Priest and a Levite, both religious leaders among the Jews at that period. I'm sure these two 
religious leaders taught their people about love and compassion. As they taught their students in 
the synagogues perhaps they used this same L word over and over. Perhaps they preached 
again and again about loving God and your neighbor as was given them in their scriptures.
   Then the time came to demonstrate this love in the real world and they closed their eyes to the 
opportunity. They were probably in a hurry to get home to their flock to preach about love or 
repentance.
   Then came the third guy, the most unlikely of the three to help because he was a Samaritan. 
The Samaritans were looked upon by the Jews as half breeds and heretics and not worthy of 
sharing in the pure religion. Some Jews viewed them as mortal enemies. Nevertheless, this half 
breed saw this man (who would probably spit on him if he were conscious) and saved his life and 
spent his own money to insure he was nourished back to health. The love manifested when the 
injured Jew realized who had saved his life is a thing one cannot manufacture by teaching or 
writing. It can only happen by doing.
   Notice that the Samaritan never mentioned the word love. When love is truly demonstrated, it 
does not have to be mentioned. All of us may not have soul contact, but all of us know what love 
is when we feel it and when we feel it we do not need anyone to explain to us what it is.
   I'll take as my companions one like the Samaritan who can show love in action over a thousand 
who merely proclaim the words.
   We may be half breed Samaritans and enemies in your eyes Jahnihah, but even if this is true 
Jesus tells us that we are still your neighbors and that we still should show and demonstrate love 
toward one another.
   I know I speak for many here when I extend to you the hand of fellowship and the gift of love, 
but how can you recognize this if you will not receive it and see us as brethren?
   What if the Jew who was assisted by the good Samaritan spit in his face when he awoke 
because he saw himself as being in the hands of an enemy? Would that destroy the love 
demonstrated by the Samaritan?
   Verily, no. But it would choke out the love struggling to manifest within his own heart.
   Who is your neighbor, Jahnihah?
   According to Jesus I am. So is Travis and Glenys, and Rick and Diane and Benjamin and 
Marylin, and Xavier, and Larry etc. Instead of biting the hands that are attempting to feed you the 
pure love of Christ (which does not include anger at your brothers and sisters) cease the biting 
and snapping and see what there is here for you to receive. Give us the marginal kindness that 
the average guy in the street would offer to a stranger and you will receive a hundred fold in 
return.
   I witness to you that this principle of loving all people as our neighbors has worked in my life 
and the rewards I have received are more than I have capacity to receive.
   I love you also as my neighbor. As I write here in an attempt to clarify things to you I realize that 
it may be seen as unloving by you, but such is not the case. I am doing all in my power to open a 
thread of loving interplay but if you resist this then I mist move on to others who can bear fruit.
   Even so, the door will always be open to all who wish to open it.
Peace and Love
JJ
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20114
From: Jarmo Nevalainen 
Subject: OT question forJahnihah 
Hi
   Why are you on this list in the first place?? 
   Seems to me that sometimes, well many times you act like a small child. You know when there 
are quests in the house and they are trying to make a conversation the child starts to talk aloud 
only to get attention from adults/parents. 
   I like this list because it is focused onto something. It doesn't bother me who the teacher is, the 
message is what counts. I like it also cause I know what this list is dealing about. Its like when 
you play certain sport you know the rules. If you break em you will get a penalty, and every player 
knows these rules, and they like that particular sport because of it. 
   Now seems to me that you have a problem with rules on this list? If so, maybe you should 
check yourself and find the motives you are here for (if any exists)
   What comes to teacher i will point this out, i've started an martial art (jujitsu) a while ago. We've 
had 3 different teachers so far, although they teach differently the goal is the same: to learn how 
to pull it off. I think that this is the essence of this list, to learn something. If i'd start to rebel 
against the teacher without any good reason i would make a fool out of myself. Rules are known 
to all because then they can check if this is a thing they want to do or be part of, if not so they 
should not interfere the learning of others. Luckily JJ have a rubber band like patience. But we all 
know what happens when the rubber band brakes, don't we....
Strength and honour for all
Jarmo

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20115
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: Do Unto Others
   privacy writes: "Peace & Love - and hoping to see repentance where it's due."
Hello Jahnihah
   I was once in the same position you seem to be now. And I had a hard row to hoe learning the 
truths that are very clear in the bible. You see, the bible is all about learning to live in the way that 
God wishes us to live. That means that we have to begin the learning to live with ourselves before 
we can help others to learn how to live. None are perfect. 
   To say "peace" one must first be peaceful. To love another, one must first love one's self. Jesus 
said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." It is also said in the bible, "As ye sow, shall ye reap." 
Everything you put out will come back to you and this is a universal law meaning that faith or 
belief is not necessary for this law to manifest. Even those who have no knowledge of it end up 
experiencing it.
   Please think about yourself and what you are drawing to yourself.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20116
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: OT - Christmas eclipse to provide rare holiday light show
   Jennifer Hampson writes: "Now what does it all mean???***!!!!"
Hi Jennifer
   My calendar shows the new moon on the 25th, but then it wouldn't be the first time a calendar 
was misprinted. 
   The first thought that I had was that since we celebrate Jesus birthday on 12-25 it all would 
mean "a new life". Hmmmmmmmm.....that's not very clear. A birth means a new life and a new 
moon is a new phase of the moon. If it has more meaning than that, I would surely like to hear.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20117
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   privacy wrote: "I do get a kick out of teasing hypocritical people by bring their attention to it, 
yes."
   Children behave thusly. Very small children. 
Diane

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20118
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: Re: Loving Our Neighbors
   J J Dewey wrote: "You are exerting much more force in violating of the free will of the people on 
the list than anyone is toward you. No one is forcing you to be here, but we as members are 
currently forced to endure your unjust accusations and bitter imaginary complaints.
   "You might want to ask yourself this question?
   "Why is it that on every list you join you have this same problem? Are all people your enemies? 
Is there even one person who is worthy of love and kindness from you?"
   I have noticed that many people are much ruder on the internet than they are in person. In 
person we are able to mitigate some of our harsher seeming words with body language. Some of 
us haven't learned this skill of speaking over the internet in such a way as to not be offensive. I 
know in Jahnihah's case he is much easier to talk to in person than he is on the internet though 
he and I have some VERY spirited conversations.
   I also know he has very set ideas on what everyone SHOULD be doing and doesn't see that he 
is trampling over people and violating their free agency.
   He is very committed to what he believes and his ministry. He gives freely of his time and 
people donate freely to his ministry. Many of those people are what Jahnihah would call 
congruent so their donations are not tainted. When JJ says things that are out in left field I think 
he is trying to see if it will push a button. The following statement is way out in left field:
   Or perhaps you are living off the mercy of reluctant friends. If this is the case then consider this 
scripture:
D&amp;C 42:42 Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the 
garments of the laborer.
   Jahnihah is anything but idle. Having said that, do I agree with his methods and delivery here 
and most everywhere on the internet? No. It doesn't work too well IMHO. But I will say he does a 
lot of good for people. He claims his methods on the internet are god inspired and I won't argue 
with his soul contact, but I will report they don't seem to work to me. But God needs souls of all 
sorts to do His work and fulfill His purposes. Far be it from me to tell God how to work with others.
   I enjoy getting to know all of you here and seeing how your life fits into the overall picture of 
fulfilling God's purposes. I enjoy learning what JJ has to offer and watching how he handles 
various situations. I don't think he does it perfectly, but I think he does it well.
   I learn as much from his interactions with others as I do with his "teaching" messages. I learn a 
lot about myself as I watch myself react to various messages. I am a quick decision maker and 
sometimes miss things that others point out and see. So is it better to be slow or fast in making 
assessments or decisions? It is better to have access to both types for the most information. That 
is why I appreciate what everyone says, to give me a different view point. When I am patient and 
learn their view point instead of automatically dismissing them I am enriched. Some are harder for 
me to listen to than others. When I find that is so, I ask myself what is it about that person that I 
don't want to see in myself?
   I have learned one thing about myself. I believe in lots of rules for the immature and few rules 
for the mature. When my children were young I expected obedience, yet I gave them choices in 
any and every way I could think of. (Do you want to wear the red or the blue shirt--even to 
babies.) Their choices increased as they got older.
   The Keys of Knowledge is a large gathering net and we are in a position of being new to one 
another and some structure provides for smooth sailing. I can foresee this list evolving into a 
beginner's list with a fair amount of rules attached and other lists evolving with less and less 
rules.
   There is a service group called Triads made up of about 30 Keys of Knowledge members. 
Triads have very few rules. Are you willing to be of service? The rules just cover how and why we 
invite people to join us. We know one another and don't need the structure.
   In political realms I do not believe more laws solve problems, but creates more and more 
problems. We could get ridiculous with our laws, too, here at Keys. Most of the time a quiet 
reminder of the list purpose is all that is needed. Very few times do we "need" the rules, but they 
are handy in case we do. People like Jahnihah and Xavier and Mindy remind me that I may be 
too quick to judge at times, but I still stay true to what I feel in my gut, some structure is needed--
maybe just not as much as I originally thought.
   So a big thank you for all the diversity that you are and all the gifts that you bring to me every 
time you post.
Susan

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20119
From: "Judy Reese" 
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
JJ wrote:
   You accuse me of betraying that which is sacred because I labor for money whereas you claim 
to be squeaky clean because you say you work 7 days a week 24 hours a day in "your neighbor's 
welfare" receiving no money at all.
Judes:
   He was criticizing you for selling your spiritual books for profit, JJ and not for labouring for a 
living. He is separating using spiritual truth as a means to make a profit instead of sharing truth 
and knowledge freely. Compare apples to apples not oranges and apples, please, for the sake of 
this argument.
JJ:
   I would be interested in exploring whether or not you practice what you preach here.
   Where do you get your money to buy food, clothing and housing? Unless you have savings or 
an inheritance it would seem that you are receiving money for some type of work you are doing. 
You are also online and have computer access and this costs money. How do you pay for this?
   I suspect that if you answer this truthfully that the finger of accusation you pointed at me will 
turn upon yourself.
Judes:
   He was saying that he labours in assistance to his neighbors...24/7.....in other words this is 
what is his first intent. He considers helping his neighbors sacred and would not accept payment 
for it. If he has a job he works only to make what he needs and then helps his neighbors without 
pay.
JJ:
   Or perhaps you are living off the mercy of reluctant friends. If this is the case then consider this 
scripture:
Judes:
   Talk about false accusation. At least let him answer the question. You accuse him and pass 
judgmental scripture on to him before the man even got to say if he does this. Plus this is off the 
topic of the argument that he presented about you being hypocritical.
JJ wrote:
   In my last post I mentioned the importance of Loving our neighbors as ourselves and pointed 
out to you that we are your neighbors with the hope that you would show more love and civility 
toward the people on the list.
Judes:
   He is saying that you and the people on the list are hypocritical in that you will not show love 
and civility. Defending himself in the face of rudeness over his minor transgression of posting 
HTML in an e-mail is not the same thing as not being loving or civil.
   JJ wrote: "No one has targeted you. You have accused without cause and others have 
defended themselves."
Judes:
   Diane targeted him with a petty post about his HTML on the end of his post. I am SURE he was 
not aware of this and did not intentionally set out to clutter Diane's list. So he is defending that 
action and reacting to Diane's rudeness and incivility. Your defending of that rude behavior based 
on the rules is not right, JJ. You should stand for principle and not people. Any one that is truly 
representing higher truth would do that.
   Now..I am sure I will receive critical replies and false accusations pointed at me too now.
   Please try to discuss the words written in this post and not my misgivings as a perfected person 
yet. In other words try to stay on the topic of the post I wrote an the issue of whether JJ and some 
on this list are hypocritical in their actions.
"Say what you mean and mean what you say"------JudyKay Reese

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20120
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Clarification
   Judes in defending Jahnihah
   "He was criticizing you for selling your spiritual books for profit, JJ and not for laboring for a 
living."
   He mentioned both in his criticism Judes. He specifically targeted the 80 hours a week I work at 
my business in addition to the spiritual work while pointing out that he remains above this 
necessity.
   I was not "judging" how Jahnihah makes his money. I was exploring the different possibilities 
since he has presented himself above the messy business of working for money. Until Susan 
informed us I have only been able to guess possibilities.
   Susan, I think you misunderstand what I am saying in relation to idleness and Jahnihah. I was 
not inferring that he does not work hard. It may very well be that he works day and night at his 
endeavors. Instead of judging him I was going by his own statement which was that he spends 7 
days a week 24 hours a day in God's work, yet never in all this time period receives or work for 
"compensation"
   The only conclusion I can derive from this is that if he is not earning his room and board then 
someone is giving it to him. In other words, even though he may be working like crazy fulfilling his 
dreams then someone is giving him money that he receives without the benefit of labor. This 
would indicate idleness in this area of making money to support oneself which goes contrary to 
the advice of the scripture.
   You however, shed further light on this which indicates that he does have a ministry which does 
bring in money which pays his way - so obviously he is working for money just like the rest of us 
folks.
   Jahnihah, why weren't you honest about this instead of portraying yourself as being holier than 
thou because you do not have to work for money?
   You obviously work for your ministry and they pay you for it.
   I make signs for a living and when people receive the signs they "donate" some money to me. 
What is the difference?
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20121
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
Judy Reese wrote:
   "Diane targeted him with a petty post about his HTML on the end of his post. I am SURE he 
was not aware of this and did not intentionally set out to clutter Diane's list. So he is defending 
that action and reacting to Diane's rudeness and incivility. Your defending of that rude behavior 
based on the rules is not right," 
   It's possible that you missed my post but I did say I was sorry, Judy and I thanked you for the 
lesson in manners. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20122
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   "Do you really believe you will convince anyone here if you act like this?"
   "Travis !! So NICE to hear from you again. What I believe is that the truth should be said, and if 
a person be true to him/herself, they will become congruent to the truth - notwithstanding my 
'actions' as others are want to perceive them."
   I think you will find it's not what you believe that some of us are taking issue with, it's how you 
present it. We may disagree on beliefs and attempt to discuss them with you. I don't see a 
problem here. 
   'You are the type of person who believes wearing a tie to work improves performance, aren't 
you ?"
   Quite the opposite in fact. I believe ties are uncomfortable, annoying and reduce, rather than 
improve performance. I have never worn a tie to work. I feel people should dress however they 
feel comfortable.
   "When you use this mailing list you are using someone else's property. That property is 
Spiritweb's mail servers."
   "No, actually my Father's 'property' is being sent over the Department of Defense's PRIVATE 
communications system, and it doesn't belong to Spiritweb at all."
   The DOD system you refer to was called ARPANET. It is long dead now, the Internet is a 
private communications system maintained by private interests. The Government pulled out quite 
some time ago for the most part. The system does not belong to any one entity, however, the 
servers were paid for by Spiritweb and they purchased the right to use bandwidth on the system 
from their provider. Most of the lines are installed and maintained by various long distance 
providers like AT&T and Sprint.
   "They have a right to dictate how those servers are used."
   "No, they have a privilege to use this system, just as I do. They may desire to exercise their 
proprietary rules, but it has no bearing on my own choices or what I send. It is not required to 
receive what I sent, but they did agree to receive it."
   They pay for their connection and bandwidth. That makes it theirs as much as anything on the 
net can be owned. It is true that you can send anything you wish, they can chose not to receive it. 
As you say. The rules are to tell you what they choose to receive.
   "Now, I have my opinions, and I came to see if someone else's opinions could teach me 
something, but if I explain what my opinions are, or express how I actually feel, I get told some 
erroneous facts about who owns what, and how those errors conclude that I am somehow 
violating something. When people can play fair because that is their nature, then stupid rules and 
procedures are totally unnecessary. Get it ???"
   *sigh* Do you just exist in a parallel universe or something? I find it hard to believe someone 
who is obviously intelligent can fail to comprehend such a simple concept.
   "The post on HTML was to inform us all of the desire of the server owners who allow us to use 
thier machines and bandwidth."
   "Great. Exactly how many messages did it take to communicate this ??? 30 ??? and it's end 
result was an additional bunch of rules and procedures. Now THAT is what I would call an abuse 
of bandwidth."
   Just like in a crowded room, many people may respond at once. It is the nature of mailing lists. 
The rules and procedures existed before this incident, and were simply reposted for the benefit of 
newer members.
   "This is not authoritarian,"
   "uh.......look up the definition and tell me all those rules and procedures aren't 'authoritarian'."
   Depends on how you view things I suppose. I do not consider people exercising property rights 
as "authoritarian". That term is reserved for governments to me. However, since you asked me to 
look it up From dictionary.com:
authoritarian adj 1: characteristic of an absolute ruler or absolute rule; having absolute 
sovereignty; "an authoritarian regime"; "autocratic government"; "despotic rulers"; "a dictatorial 
rule that lasted for the duration of the war"; "a tyrannical government" [syn: autocratic, dictatorial, 
despotic, tyrannical] 2: likened to a dictator in severity [syn: dictatorial] 3: expecting unquestioning 
obedience; "he was imperious and dictatorial"; "the timid child of authoritarian parents"; 
"insufferably overbearing behavior toward the waiter" [syn: dictatorial, overbearing] n : behaves 
like a tyrant [syn: dictator] 
   The rules aren't THAT bad. ;)
   "it is an exercise of private property rights."
   "You don't HAVE any 'private property rights', so to attempt to exert them is futile."
   Really? So anyone should be allowed to take from me what I do not defend? Wonderful picture 
you paint here.
   "As those do not require laws I don't see why you have a problem with them."
Travis
   "If they don't require laws, then WHY ARE THEY BEING ENFORCE BY THEM???"
   Are they? The law allows property owners some leeway in the defense of that property and 
recognizes the right to do most whatever they want with it. I see property rights more as a 
construct of civilization than anything else.
"Have a day. 
J"
   "ps - you expect me to follow the 'rules' when you can't even follow them yourself ??? Next time 
post this as 'OT'. LOL !!!! Ohhh........ it's a good thing I don't care about your rules, otherwise I'd 
be a hypocrite for not posting this as 'OT' myself. LMAO !!!"
   J, The topic is still laws and rules and how they apply to the list and life. That is on topic last 
time I checked. The principle of Freedom is a valid topic on this list, this discussion fits within that. 
Travis

 Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20123
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Diane Linen wrote: "If I go into someone else's house, I will abide by their rules and expect 
others to do the same in mine."
Diane
   "When you come into mine, you will find there are no rules, but if you can't behave as if you 
were in your own house, you won't be invited back."
   And this gets to the heart of the matter, doesn't it? If the person chooses not to abide by your 
rules, or requests if you prefer, what do you do about it? If they don't care to be civilized they will 
just walk in without an invitation. What do you do about it? 
   Same question I've asked numerous times without a reply, don't know why I keep trying.
Travis

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20124
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: OT - Should the Devil be thanked
   B duffey..au wrote "[.................]
   Thus if Lucifer is an actual entity, then I feel that Lucifer has made a sacrifice of COSMIC 
proportions. To know GODliness and to consciously remove oneself from that Godliness - can 
anyone think of a greater hell?. [...............]"
   I have met the "Angel of Light and Knowledge" about 4 times. "The Bright and Shining Morning 
Star" is the Most Spectacularly Beautiful BEing, more than
   I can comprehend or put to words. He told me that it is his job to Hold the Focus of Not-God or 
Forgetting God in order for ALL of Creation to have a Choice.
   So, without old "Lucifer" we would have no Free Will.
Thank you, Luc, I think..... <8^}
   Robert G. Parent wrote: "Sharri, I have come to believe that evil = ego. What I mean by that is 
that when one decides to do for the individual at the expense of the Unity, the whole is 
diminished."
   I agree. "All for One and One for All" is "Good", but "All for me, myself and I" = ego, which I long 
ago dubbed my "Devil Mind" ;-)
   Abiquiu wrote: "[................]
   "A former teacher of mine once said that there are two ways to deal with evil (and I have had 
opportunities to put this to the test): either by opposing it with a view to destroying it, or by loving 
it. If we choose the first option, we had better be stronger than the negative force we are 
opposing, or the negative force will win the battle. But anyone can choose the second option, and 
as I said, where love is, evil cannot exist. So by loving the negative energy, unconditionally, it 
melts or moves away."
   Benjamin, I've had first hand Experience with this. In 1992 I ran into a very powerful psychic, 
who I thought was my friend, but was my enemy. Without my knowing it, this person hypnotized 
me in about 5 seconds. I suddenly thought my Soul was Satan. After about 3 days I determined 
that the only way to rid the world of the Evil of my Soul was to kill myself. But since, I'd already 
tried that 15 years previously, and gone to the *Cold-Dark-Place* I had NO desire to return there, 
no matter what!!! So, I had to come up with a better solution. I determined to *LOVE* my Soul into 
the Light. I didn't like talking to myself and calling my Soul "Satan" so, I started saying "Coco." 
Then I began *Loving* my Soul and every other Aspect of my BEing. It took about 3 months for 
things to Shift, but, eventually, Coco started asking questions and actually Learning about Light 
and Love instead of dictating to me. This went on for a while longer. Coco told me finally, that he 
really wasn't my Soul, nor is he Satan. He was just your average run of the mill "demon" who got 
Assigned to me. Then one day Coco said he wanted to Graduate on move on to the next Higher 
Soul Level. So, we said good-bye, I sent him off in Love and Light, and he's never been back.
   Another time, after "Exorcising" another Demon that this same psychic sicked onto my friend, 
the Demon *Appeared* in my bedroom at 3:AM one morning. I ordered it to BE GONE! It laughed 
a horrendously chilling laugh, so loud that I thought it would wake up the neighbors!!! A wind 
started blowing in my bedroom (with all the windows and door shut) as it came toward me. It 
looked like "Darth Vader" surrounded by a burnt orange glow. Kinda scared me. But then I 
remembered not to be afraid, so not to Feed it my Energy! I said, "In the Name and the Blood of 
Jesus Christ, BE GONE!" There was a blinding flash of White Light and the thing was totally 
obliterated -- annihilated!!!
   PS: About "The Fall" where Lucifer/Satan and 1/3 of the Angels were supposedly Banished 
from Heaven... That doesn't exactly seem to be true. Evidently, Satan is still able to prance into 
Heaven and have audience with God any time he pleases:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the 
LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, 
and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none 
like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Zechariah 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, 
and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zechariah 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD 
that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit *from* the LORD 
troubled him.
 * _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
 :) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*
It is a poor memory that remembers only backwards.
 --White Queen to Alice

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20125
From: Christopher Wynter 
Subject: On a completely OFF topic
"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." --Unknown
"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." --
Anonymous
"Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't get eight cats to pull a sled through snow." --Jeff Valdez
"In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats." --English proverb
"As every cat owner knows, nobody owns a cat." --Ellen Perry Berkeley
"One cat just leads to another." --Ernest Hemingway
"Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you later." --Mary Bly
"Cats are rather delicate creatures and they are subject to a good many ailments, but I never 
heard of one who suffered from insomnia." --Joseph Wood Krutch
"People who hate cats, will come back as mice in their next life." --Faith Resnick

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20126
From: Rick Audette 
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Jahnihah and others can say what they like, but I decided, appropriately
enough in his case, to throw out the rule book and give him the ax, on my own.
   There is a time for everything and, since diplomacy didn't work, I figured it was one of those 
times to shoot first and ask questions later.
Your Servant,
Rick

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20127
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: Evil Forces 
   Robin Kennon wrote: "[.............]
   "I looked up the word 'principalities" in my dictionary ( the Second College Edition of The 
American Heritage Dictionary), the 3rd definition said "Theol. One of the nine orders of angels." If 
one of the nine orders of angels, of which I know nothing about, has to do with principalities, or a 
position of authority, then perhaps this is a place where wickedness could be found in celestial 
places?? Can anyone point me toward any more information about the orders of angels? This is a 
totally new concept to me."
   Robin, try looking at Sarah's Arch Angel's Page. 
<http://www.sarahsarchangels.com/index2.html>http<http://www.sarahsarchangels.com/index2.ht
ml>://www.sarahsarchangels.com/index2.html
* _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
:) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http//home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
== ==
<^\()/\()/^>
\/ \/ \/
/ \/ \
`""``""`
"we are each of us angels with but one wing,
and can only fly by embracing each other" -jgs-
*****************************************************

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20128
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   J J Dewey wrote: "[.........] Eph 6:11-12 Let me give you a more accurate translation from the 
Concordant Bible:
   "Put on the panoply of God to enable you to stand up to the stratagems of the Adversary, for it 
is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the 
world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."
   "Before I give my thoughts on this let us see what you think.
"Question:
   "There is a basic four square of evil which the disciples of light mist deal with."
   None of these 4 groups of Evil are Physical "flesh and blood." The Armor of God is not needed 
to fight the Physical as much as it is the Spiritual Evilness.
"They are:
"(1) Principalities or sovereignties."
   The Angelic Realms reside here. Both the Light and Dark. We can Call on the Angels of Light to 
help us overcome the Angels of Dark. "The Watchers" are here to Observe and only get involved 
if Asked/Sent. Even after they get here they are limited in how much they are allowed to Interfere 
with People and the Laws of Physicality. While the Dark Angels recognize no laws, but, having a 
Body is still required to make certain Physical Impact on this Realm. Time is not Physical, so may 
be Impacted.
   The only difference between the 2 is that the Angels of Light carry out God's Will with no 
Agenda of their own, while the Angels of Darkness have an Agenda with their own Self Interest at 
Heart.
   It's not easy to distinguish the difference from Human Perspective. That is why we are told to 
Ask God to Send an Angel instead of Summoning a specific Angel our selves. Even though it is 
OK to Ask for a specific Angel. Asking God to Send the Angel assures us that we shall Receive 
what we Ask for.
   Humans are easily fooled and so gullible. Very few have the Gift of Distinguishing "Energy 
Signatures." And those with Dark Intent are Masters at disguise!!!
"(2) Powers or authorities"
   God gave the Earthly Realms to Luc and his allies. The Earthly Realms include Earth, all of it's 
Parallels and many of the Astral and Etheric Planes. The Watchers were Set to Balance the 
Energies, to Report back to God on Human Progress and to BE Here IF Humans Ask God for 
help.
   Lucifer/Satan/The Adversary, basically Rules Supreme here, since God Gave him the Earth. 
BUT, God Gave Humans the "Fallen Angels" Place in Heaven for messing with us in the first 
place!
   "Powers or Authorities" refer to what The Adversary may and may not do in accordance with 
Physical Laws. In order to Physically Impact this World, one still needs a Physical Body, or to be 
Summoned by Humans. Once a Vortex is Created the Powers and Authority are expanded into 
Physicality, but still limited to and by the Proximity of the Vortex and or Summoner(s). That's why 
houses or Places may be "haunted," but the Power and Authority of that "haunting" is limited in 
area.
"(3) Rulers of the darkness of this world"
   Grays. In a word. The Grays were left in Charge of this "zoo". They are in Phases Physicality. 
Meaning that they are just out of our Awareness, but can and do come into the same Phase of 
Physicality that Humans inhabit. We can move into Their Realm by means of "Altered 
Awareness" but, usually by the *Technology* that was left to *Them* as the *Caretakers* of the 
*EarthS* in Parallel.
   We are basically Their Food. That is they feed off our Mental Energy and our Emotions. The 
more Negative Emotions the more Food we produce for Them. They Regulate and Program us 
while we sleep; while we traverse the Astral DreamScape, which They Create for us to Play in. 
That is why it's Important to try to get Lucid in Dreaming, because then They cannot manipulate 
our brain waves as easily. Then we can Learn to Think for our selves instead of living from Their 
Programming!!! This is why Religion on this Planet remains basically unchanged for millennia! 
People are Programmed while asleep to maintain the status quo!
"(4) Spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places." [..............]
   "What could be the evil in the celestial realms?"
   It's the BALANCE of the Universe; the ONEness of God/dess, the ISness. The Balance of 
ReMembering and ForGetting; of God and Not-God; so that ALL might have Free Will.
   We Perceive it as Evil, because we "became Wise as gods" and started *Judging.* Before 
Judgment, we may have Experienced many of the same things, but had no Preference for one 
Experience over another.....
   The Evil People who Inhabit the Celestial Realms have usually been called "gods" throughout 
History. They are the Grays, the Reptilians, the Nephlim, our Creators and Caretakers. But, 
always they come and Mess with us for their Own Agenda and Selfish reasons, and not for our 
own Higher Good. They Created us using their own genetics, then stripped it from us, lest we get 
so smart that we aren't satisfied being their Slaves and Food. That is why God gave us *Their* 
Place in Heaven. Because Evolutionary and Physical 3-D Creations are not usually given 
Spiritual-Souls such as Humans have. Like the Animals, our *consciousness* would have to 
Evolve to the next Higher Realm before we could attain Spiritual-Soulhood that God Awarded 
Humans by *Grace!* Because of this Gift of Grace, our Spiritual-Soul, Humans have the Power 
Within to ReCreate our Lost Genetics!!! To Evolve into "gods" ourselves.
   "Who are these four categories of evil? Why are they evil and what can we do to overcome 
them?"
   In order to overcome the Evil Ones we must gain as much Knowledge about this World, where 
we came from, where we want to go and WHY. Living in Peace, Harmony, Light and Love is not 
enough. It takes Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding to bring all the *Harmonics* and 
*Energies* together in just the right Order and Rituals. We CAN Change our Selves and our 
World if we Educate our selves in the Ancient Ways. The Knowledge IS Available, but the Truth is 
sandwiched with Lies (disinformation) and incongruous conclusions. It takes a lot of study, Prayer 
and rightly divining the Words of Truth fromthe Chaff..........
 * _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
 :) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*
It is a poor memory that remembers only backwards.
 --White Queen to Alice

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20129
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of Mars life
   http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/12/14/mars.life/index.html
_______________Samu Karlsson 
eMail: samu3@dlc.fi
http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3
Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine...
but you already know this, don?t you?

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20130
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   This is a totally new area for me. I've heard of these grays and reptilians. This seems rather 
wild. Linking all the dark angels and these other entities would be quite helpful in creating a broad 
picture of this subject. Sharri's information here is quite interesting. 
   Would these dark angels or evil forces be considered the Dark Brothers? 
Diane
   Sharri Lorraine wrote: "None of these 4 groups of Evil are Physical "flesh and blood." The 
Armor of God is not needed to fight the Physical as much as it is the Spiritual Evilness."
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-15/20131
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
   Judy Reese wrote: "Diane targeted him with a petty post about his HTML on the end of his post. 
I am SURE he was not aware of this and did not intentionally set out to clutter Diane's list. So he 
is defending that action and reacting to Diane's rudeness and incivility. Your defending of that 
rude behavior based on the rules is not right, JJ. You should stand for principle and not people. 
Any one that is truly representing higher truth would do that."
   I fall so far short of my aims these days. I loved Susan's post today/Thursday because it gave 
me a lot to think about. It made so much sense and I see how it applies to me as well. I want to 
be the best I can be and I'm so very far from that goal. Judy keeps me in her target sights and 
shoots me down constantly or at least this is the fourth time in recent months. 
   I asked Jahnihah a question about his HTML and Judy sees it as an attack on him and rude as 
well. She points out that it was a mistake and I said I wasn't aware it was a mistake and I was 
sorry I had said anything about it. Judy says it's rude of me to do this and I thanked her for her 
lesson in manners. 
   Thank you once again, Judy for I would not be able to see some of my shortcomings without 
your help. I'm rude and unruly. I apologize for my rudeness and unruliness. 
   But I still love you no matter what. May you find what you are seeking.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20132
From: xavier 
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
   Frankly, Diane, you are a target because you are an easy target. Just don't let others 
culpabilize you (guilt you). This is an emotional trap. What you lack in this situation, IMO, is a 
strong Martian energy that will show potential parasites that it is not efficient to try to abuse you. 
Your remarks to Judes and Janinhah were far from abusive, really, just ask more calm folks about 
it.
   So don't believe you were offensive, you were not! I mean, disrespectful. (offensive can be a 
quality;-).
   "She points out that it was a mistake and I said I wasn't aware it was a mistake and I was sorry I 
had said anything about it. Judy says it's rude of me to do this and I thanked her for her lesson in 
manners."
   Of course she will go on, as long as you give her your energy by unduly feeling guilty... your 
only "guilt" is not to have satisfied her little hungry ego...
   OOps I'm on the keys? well that's it!! lol
   In fact there is no guilt at all, you are just, in hungry ego's eyes, a prey. HEY YOU ! YOU 
ABUSED ME! NOW BOW DOWN ! lol hahahahha
   Let's do some Invocation of Mars together.
   "Thank you once again, Judy for I would not be able to see some of my shortcomings without 
your help. I'm rude and unruly. I apologize for my rudeness and unruliness."
   This is not the way. Unless you know that you have been abusive, and in fact no, even in this 
case you wouldn't have to humble yourself too much either.
   "But I still love you no matter what. May you find what you are seeking."
   Teeth. I wanna see your teeth;-) lol
--
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...
   In fact, beyond the person to person relationship, there is the more important self to self 
relationship. You did take some initiative in your posts, and consequently some felt, i mean FELT 
offended. Hint : if you do nothing, nor is even alive, you won't offend others for sure. If you do 
anything, especially something inspired, you WILL offend, in fact no, others will feel offended 
because simply, GOOD offends.
   Let's say that in order to materialize a certain amount of soul (essence, real) energy, one needs 
a corresponding amount of EGO to defend this "territory". Ego power I mean, like "hey you, don't 
bully me, all right?" Just show your power, your Martian power. Be a warrior, have a sword in 
your hand, otherwise they will always get you. ("they" but in fact you, yourself)
   (I'm gonna end up choosing this as a permanent signature : let's be warriors)
   Self (and I mean Higher Self) respect demands being a warrior.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20133
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: A Great Mystery
   I do not remember you posting anything abrasive or offensive since you've been on the list 
Diane. The few retorts you gave given have been richly called for.
   I feel bad that Jahnihah got kicked off the list. I find it a challenge to reach someone so 
antagonistic like that. Usually, it cannot be done, but then there are times when success comes. I 
can certainly understand Rick's reasoning and I accept it. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get 
numerous private letters on the negativity.
   Rick's kind of a softy like me and someone does need to push beyond what is good manners to 
cause him to press the button. I believe that Jahnihah is only the second person that has been 
deleted from membership so Rick indeed cannot be accused of being on an authoritarian rage 
here.
   We have had some thought provoking answers on the four categories of evil from Rick, Robin 
and Sharri. I will comment more on them tomorrow, but first I want you to contemplate a great 
mystery lying before us in the fourth category concerning spiritual wickedness in celestial places.
   We tend to think that when we progress out of the human kingdom to the kingdom of God that 
the only way to go is up, but is this really the case?
   Do we not have the story of Lucifer falling from heaven? Is it possible that even a Master or a 
Logos could turn to evil? If he did, how would that evil manifest?
   Hint: Do we ever lose free will?
   Keep in mind that we are not using evil in the typical context of the religious zealots, but as a 
principle.
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20134
From: "Lawrence Kennon"
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
Rick:
   "...I decided, appropriately... to throw out the rule book and give him [Jahnihah] the ax, on my 
own"
   Bravo! Excellent initiative on your part! 
   And thanks! ;) 
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20135
From: xavier 
Subject: OT Jesus and the bikers;-) (Janinhah's affair)
   I think this whole Janinhah trouble boils down to Respect.
   I picture Jesus entering a bikers bar. (lets not see him dressed as in Palestine please lol) Jesus 
would show self respect, and respect for the group he gets in. (unless he gets into a money 
changers group, but bikers Are respectable) Showing true self respect and group respect, he 
would slip in easily and even be greeted, appreciated for his qualities.
   When you have something to give, then you are welcome to share. When you only want to 
make trouble, well a strong ruled group will kick you out quickly.
   This also reminds me of a guy who manages a community somewhere on an island. He posts 
on newsgroups, and says that the biggest trouble is to find people who want to join the 
community, but don't want to be nursed out of their personal childhood dependency traumas. 
Responsible people who want to build something, not people who are looking for a Chief (Dad) to 
oppose or a Mom to I don't know what;-)

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20136
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
   xavier wrote: "Frankly, Diane, you are a target because you are an easy target. Just don't let 
others culpabilize you (guilt you). This is an emotional trap."
   So from my understanding, Judy has left the list again and this was sort of a hit and run attack?
   "What you lack in this situation, IMO, is a strong martian energy that will show potential 
parasites that it is not efficient to try to abuse you. Your remarks to Judes and Janinhah were far 
from abusive, really, just ask more calm folks about it."
   I don't want to be offensive to anyone so I guess I should watch what I say more carefully 
before saying it which is part of Susan's message yesterday. 
   "So don't believe you were offensive, you were not! I mean, disrespectful. (offensive can be a 
quality;-)."
   Perhaps when I'm not feeling well, I get impatient.
   "She points out that it was a mistake and I said I wasn't aware it was a mistake and I was sorry I 
had said anything about it. Judy says it's rude of me to do this and I thanked her for her lesson in 
manners."
   "Of course she will go on, as long as you give her your energy by unduly feeling guilty... your 
only "guilt" is not to have satisfied her little hungry ego..."
<snip>
   "In fact, beyond the person to person relationship, there is the more important self to self 
relationship. You did take some initiative in your posts, and consequently some felt, i mean FELT 
offended. Hint : if you do nothing, nor is even alive, you won't offend others for sure. If you do 
anything, especially something inspired, you WILL offend, in fact no, others will feel offended 
because simply, GOOD offends.
   "Let's say that in order to materialize a certain amount of soul (essence, real) energy, one 
needs a corresponding amount of EGO to defend this "territory". Ego power I mean, like "hey you, 
don't bully me, all right?" Just show your power, your Martian power. Be a warrior, have a sword 
in your hand, otherwise they will always get you. ("they" but in fact you, yourself)"
   Ok, I'll definitely work on this warrior thing, Xavier.
   "(I'm gonna end up choosing this as a permanent signature : let's be warriors) Self (and I mean 
Higher Self) respect demands being a warrior."
   Soldiers for Christ.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20137
From: Maryelen
Subject: Re: Moving Onward
   Rick writes: " and give him the ax, on my own."
   Well Done Rick!!!!
Peace,
Maryellen

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20138
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   Robin Kennon wrote: "Anyway, all the above are just my rambling thoughts this morning. I'd bet 
that some of you out there have much more coherent thoughts to share with us! I'll look forward 
to reading those."
   Quite a long way from rambling, Robin. These were excellent answers. Sharri gave some 
interesting information of a nature that I've not delved into yet. Like you, I'll be interested in 
hearing what others have to say about this. What or who do compost the Dark Brothers? 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20139
From: xavier 
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   Diane wrote: "What or who do compost the Dark Brothers?"
   hell if I know!

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20140
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   ::SIGH:: compost = compose the Dark Brothers? 
   Although compost is a mixture that consists largely of decayed organic matter and is used for 
fertilizing and conditioning land.
   Hmmm... Have we found a good use for the Dark Brothers? ;)
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20141
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Hint
   Another hint on the current question.
   We assume that both Hitler and Churchill treated their dogs reasonably well and the pets of 
both men were quite contented.
   Did either dog question the integrity of their masters? Were either able to see any evil in the 
kingdom above them?
   Now use the law of correspondences and apply this to the human kingdom as it relates to the 
Kingdom of God. Is it possible that "spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places" may appear to 
be good from our perspective?
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20142
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of Mars life
   Samu writes: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/12/14/mars.life/index.html
   "Close-up view of a meteorite that has provided tantalizing evidence of fossilized life on Mars "
   Great picture Samu. But for some reason, I have trouble understanding why would anyone not 
figure out that all planets in the third dimension would have "bacteria" in the soil. I am surprised at 
our scientists.
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20143
From: "shawn Avery" 
Subject: Re: Hint
   I believe that we as a species only see what we are allowed to see when we need to see it. As 
our progression continues and as we "see" more I believe that we grow more attune to our 
"Master" and can chose between "Good & Evil" I believe that thru the stages of progression we 
learn and put into play all that we have been taught by the "Master". I also believe that as you 
have taught, that one day we will surpass our "Master" Jesus himself said that we will do greater 
works than he did. I do think that evil could be presented as good. Just look at Organized Religion 
today!! If we don't do exactly as they say we will be damned to Hell for eternity....... Not my Style.
Shawn
   J J Dewey writes: "Another hint on the current question." <snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20144
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of Mars life
   Marylin wrote: "Great picture Samu. But for some reason, I have trouble understanding why 
would anyone not figure out that all planets in the third dimension would have "bacteria" in the 
soil. I am surprised at our scientists."
   This is a good point Marylin. I have something else to 'chew' upon. Mars is considered the red 
planet. The soil appears red in photos sent back from Mars. It's highly oxidized and that in itself 
implies oxygen. And that implies that life of some sort existed on Mars. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20145
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: Re: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of
Hi Marylin, :)
   Some planets are but big balls of gas, Jupiter for example, at least according to the current 
understanding, meaning that there is no soil. Then there are planets that are just too hot/cold to 
sustain life like ours (mars/Pluto). But I think this is also one problem: often scientists look for life 
that would be a reflection of ours, that which is known here on earth. I am sure there are 
multitudes of lifeforms out there in space. And one thing that escapes most of the scientists is that 
universe is a growing being as well, slowly but surely :)
Love,
Samu

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20146
From: "Judy Reese" 
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
JJ wrote:
   I do not remember you posting anything abrasive or offensive since you've been on the list 
Diane. The few retorts you gave given have been richly called for.
Judes:
`I did not say that she was offensive or abrasive..however she uses snide retorts and petty 
comments as a weapon instead of employing her mind to graciously debate with anyone she 
disagrees with.
   Please do not twist my meaning JJ..this too is a nongracious way to debate. The tightness that 
some of you have with each other does not in my opinion preclude being civil. Pettiness to me is 
very irritating and certain people here on this list are being misguided by you, JJ, that this is a 
proper and enlightened way of debating with others.
   At first I found this confusing that you condoned this type of behavior above the principles that 
you teach but then I have come to realize that you yourself do not practice what you teach.
   Well..I am for one am not impressed. The actions have to be sincere and living the truth has to 
be real. Hypocrisy will not bring the Christ Consciousness to itself. I suggest that you look at it 
now and correct this character flaw in yourself and guide other members of your group. And if you 
judge others for not being perfected then those hypocrites amongst your group should 
demonstrate the qualities of perfection.
   I do not judge others...but I must speak up and out about this trend toward hypocrisy and 
dishonesty. Either you are totally unaware of this trend or you put yourselves above petty 
behavior...I do not know.
"Say what you mean and mean what you say"------JudyKay Reese

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20147
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
Judes,
   I think you are seeing malice where there is none. "snide" remarks are a very good way to 
make a point. They are a good way to attempt to get someone to look at themselves for a 
change. This can create greater understanding in a debate if used carefully. Diane, to me, seems 
to have done so. She didn't post more than a few such remarks. Mostly just to point out the 
childish behavior she noticed. I do not consider that being out of line. JJ uses humor to make a 
point. This is the same thing. It's not petty, it's an attempt to make a point.
   It should be noted that I was engaging him in logical debate. He was not responding to it. 
Perhaps she thought a different approach was warranted.
Travis
   JJ wrote: "I do not remember you posting anything abrasive or offensive since you've > been on 
the list Diane. The few retorts you gave given have been 
richly called for."
Judes: 
   "I did not say that she was offensive or abrasive..however she uses snide retorts and petty 
comments as a weapon instead of employing her mind to graciously debate with anyone she 
disagrees with." <snip>

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20148
From: Glenys Lowery 
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
   Judy Reese wrote: "Pettiness to me is very irritating and certain people here on this list are 
being misguided by you, JJ, that this is a proper and enlightened way of debating with others. At 
first I found this confusing that you condoned this type of behavior above the principles that you 
teach but then I have come to realize that you yourself do not practice what you teach."
   Judes you can say a lot of things that surprise me but this must take the cake. Would you like 
me to summarize in one nice easy to read file all the petty things you have said - and done - on 
this list?
   Would you like me to summarize all your recent emails about being non-judgmental?
   Do Jesus' words 'take out the log in your own eye before criticizing the splinter in someone 
else's eye' mean anything to you?
   "Well..I am for one am not impressed. The actions have to be sincere and living the truth has to 
be real. Hypocrisy will not bring the Christ Consciousness to itself."
   "I suggest that you look at it now and correct this character flaw in yourself and guide other 
members of your group."
   Who are you to comment on anyone's character flaws? Can you see inside someone's heart 
and soul to be able to 'correct'' them thus? Even the Christ within wouldn't speak as you have. 
Any message which condemns and is permeated with the spirit of criticism (and resentment) is 
not of God and does not carry the gift of genuine love.
   "And if you judge others for not being perfected then those hypocrites amongst your group 
should demonstrate the qualities of perfection."
   Can you indicate where JJ and we hypocrites amongst his group (I assume you mean the 
service group - the one whose hypocritical ranks you recently applied to join) have judged others 
for not being perfect? Give us concrete examples, Judes. You are quick to fire off unsubstantiated 
allegations but it is hard to address them because you never give us examples.
   "I do not judge others"
   LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
   "...but I must speak up and out about this trend toward hypocrisy and dishonesty."
   You are one out of the box Judes. LOLOLOLOLOL
   Can't you see how exposed you are when you make these unreasonable allegations? Many of 
us have oodles of emails from you in which we can show that you display these various 
characteristics yourself.
   I am tired of being patient with your outbursts, Judes. I have supported you many times in the 
past because I assumed you must be very unhappy to be so unpleasant so much of the time. But 
there is a limit!
Love
Glenys
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mind is like a mirror; it gathers dust while it reflects.
It needs the gentle breezes of Soul-Wisdom to brush away the dust of our illusions.
 - Blavatsky (1831-1891)

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20149
From: lawrence kennon 
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
Judes:
   "Say what you mean and mean what you say"
   Sometimes I think you would do better to not "say what you mean" all the time 
   Just a thought. ;)
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20150
From: "Judy Reese" 
Subject: re: Greater Mystery
Travis wrote:
   It should be noted that I was engaging him in logical debate. He was not responding to it. 
Perhaps she thought a different approach was warranted.
Judes:
   Thank You for your reply, Travis, and how you see snideness. But..more than snideness I see 
that some here[let me stop picking on poor Diane]..use what I consider dishonorable methods to 
debate.
For example:
1.) Not sticking to the debate and attacking with petty child-like criticisms of the other person.
2.) Character assassination instead of sticking to the topic of the debate
3.) Heckling the debaters...usually the one they disagree with
4.) Putting the cliqueishness of the group here above principles
5.) Responding out of fear of the person taking over 'their' list instead discussing the topic of the 
debate
   It goes on and on.....and I have noticed this which ever side I am on in the debate. It actually 
irritates me even more when I disagree with the person that is having this done to them...because 
it is my nature to defend someone that I see is being treated unfairly.
   It seems that a lot of you here see debating more as who wins the debate by disseminating the 
opponent. And if that does not work then you kick him out of the list or group.
   But more importantly these people seem to relish humiliating the person by being part of a 
clique that the opponent is not part of. This type of behavior ..to me...is very 'low level'...and 
...'below the belt'.... I have been on both sides of this here...and I find it very distasteful and 
inexcusable no matter WHO it is being practiced on.
   I have come to realize that JJ perpetuates this type of 'feeding frenzies' as a way to protect 
himself and passively attack someone on the list. Or maybe he is just a passive-aggressive type 
of personality?
   What ever the reason for it is..I find it draining and irritating and my ideal for a NewAge would 
have this type of behavior be the first type to expel. I think that it is important that some of you 
know how I really feel about the behavior displayed here.
   As long as I am allowed to speak here...I will criticize behavior that I see as being sub-standard 
to the ideals of the NewAge and what this group should represent.
   And it is very possible, Travis, that these standards that I see are not seen by others 
here...because I may be coming form a higher perspective than others....and JJ is teaching to the 
lowest common denominator here...but someone of high ideals where lower standards are 
irritating to them should be able to voice that opinion and a call for higher standards.
"Say what you mean and mean what you say"------JudyKay Reese

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20151
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
   Judy Reese wrote: "I did not say that she was offensive or abrasive..however she uses snide 
retorts and petty comments as a weapon instead of employing her mind to graciously debate with 
anyone she disagrees with."
 Main Entry: snide
 Pronunciation: 'snId
 Function: adjective
 Etymology: origin unknown
 Date: circa 1859
 1 a : FALSE, COUNTERFEIT b : practicing deception :
 DISHONEST <a snide merchant>
 2 : unworthy of esteem : LOW <a snide trick>
 3 : slyly disparaging : INSINUATING <snide remarks>
 - snide?ly adverb
 - snide?ness noun 
   Just where have I made false, counterfeit or dishonest statements, Judy? Which statements 
have been insinuating, Judy? 
   BACK OFF! I'm fed up with your attacks.
Diane

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20152
From: "Judy Reese" 
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking and Civilized Debate [OT]
   After I had been on the list for a month a two I noticed that many of the heated debates were 
draining the group and throwing the class off course. I suggested at that time that I would teach 
an on-line side course on 'Critical Thinking'. This would have included discussions and 
techniques on sound logic and reasoning and debating. To me these type of 'arts' are what 
separates lower form higher mind. And understanding HOW to debate without getting off-topic 
with unreasonable methods and bring enlightenment more quickly to all involved.
   To me the list and its operators should be coming up with rules that apply more to these types 
of higher-level principles instead of using petty rules like the HTML addendums as weapons to 
attack someone they see as out-of-line, etc.
Judes
"Say what you mean and mean what you say"------JudyKay Reese

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20153
From: Glenys Lowery 
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking and Civilized Debate [OT]
   They are not petty rules for those who have limited space, receive Digests or edit the archives.
   All sorts of people have been asked to refrain from using html even those in the hypocritical 
'inner' group. The rules (which are Spiritweb rules) are not used to attack people.
   I think your course in Critical Thinking is a good idea, Judes. Why not set up a separate list for 
it? I'm sure the principles you would teach would be especially helpful to those who have difficulty 
controlling their emotional bodies and reactions.
Love
Glenys
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am 
contradicted.
 - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20154
From: "Jina Bostick" 
Subject: Re: re: Greater Mystery
   Judes: I have been watching and reading and not saying anything, but your behavior does 
seem to be a bit childish. They say a person sees those faults in others that they hate in 
themselves. One person (any person) could get on the list and ask a civil question, and you 
would/do bombard the list with response after response, much of which I find difficult to 
understand, not to mention how it bogs down my email. Did you not get enough attention as a 
child and had to resort to tantrum throwing? Open up your mind, Judes, if you're looking for 
"snide, evil" or whatever, you will find it, regardless of whether it's there or not.
Sunshine

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20155
From: Sharri Lorraine
Subject: Re: Evil Forces
   Diane Linen wrote: "This is a totally new area for me. I've heard of these grays and reptilians. 
This seems rather wild."
   Wild, Weird and Wacky. I know, I debated a long time whether to post this off beat version of 
Creation....... But my SigLine got the better of me. ;-)
   I've had to check and double check my Motives for sending out this kind of Info..... I Know the 
potential for upsetting people, because I Remember how upset I was with it. Yet, in spite of that, 
I'm willing to put it out there in hopes that it will Resonate with someone's Truth and they will 
Search some more to broaden their Cosmic Picture Puzzle. Hopefully just to find JOY in 
Knowledge!!! That some people will think that I'm way off base and just plane crazy doesn't 
bother me, it's more like amusing than distressing.
   "Linking all the dark angels and these other entities would be quite helpful in creating a broad 
picture of this subject. Sharri's information here is quite interesting."
   Here are some of the links that I've gotten my Info from. Robert Morning Sky and Starfire tor I 
trust to be telling the Truth to the best of their Knowledge. Still, I'm not gullible enough to believe it 
just because someone has a good reputation.... I ALWAYS take it Inside and Measure it against 
my Truth Deep WithIn my Heart. "Rightly Divine the Words of Truth." THE TRUTH and 
Knowledge is Encoded in DNA, so I can Know it when it comes into my Consciousness. When 
Truth comes into my Consciousness, many times it is very upsetting to my World View. The Lies 
that I have been told and believed start getting rattled trying to get Released! There goes half my 
Belief System. Everything gets Shattered and I'm left picking up the peaces. But the Lies of my 
Old Belief System are gone and I my Cosmic Picture Puzzle fits more coherently. For me the 
"Shattering Process" has always been worth a larger View of the Truth.
Robert Morning Sky.......
http://www.xroads.com/~rms/index.htm
 (which I couldn't get to work today, gets periodically sabotaged)
   Betty Bland, in Seattle, compiled this condensed versions of the Robert Morning Sky "Terra 
Papers".
http://www.wenet.net/~ufoman/rmsterra.html
also more at:
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/hopigrey.html
Starfire Tor
http://sites.netscape.net/fantasyrock/enterpage
http://sites.netscape.net/earthlights/homepage
Leading Edge Research Group
http://www.trufax.org/
   BEWARE of the Info here. Not everything here is Truth! There are sites which specialize in 
Disinformation! Like Alex Collier, there is some Truth here, but it is scrambled with Twisted Truth. 
It's good for Practicing Intuition, but with a fine- tooth-comb!!!
   "Would these dark angels or evil forces be considered the Dark Brothers? Diane"
   Whatever. Anyone with an Agenda of their Own, instead of following God's Will is STS 
(Service-to-Self) or a Dark Brother, this includes Physical and Spiritual Entities, alike.
   I studied the "Mythologies" - Greek, Roman, Norse, and a few others here and there, in order to
understand about the Nephlim. I found that most of the Norse Gods seemed to be more STO 
(Service-to-Others) instead of the usual STS (Service-to-Self).
Namaste
{\@/}
 / \
 * _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
 :) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everyone's just a little bit crazy.
Some, more than others.
And some are Certified!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20156
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: Re: Loving Our Neighbors
   Sorry about the HTML, but I had to laugh at the irony of it all.
Susan
   Editor's Note: All HTML edited out.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20157
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: re: Greater Mystery
   Judy Reese wrote: "And it is very possible, Travis, that these standards that I see are not seen 
by others here...because I may be coming form a higher perspective than others....and JJ is 
teaching to the lowest common denominator here...but someone of high ideals where lower 
standards are irritating to them should be able to voice that opinion and a call for higher 
standards."
   I think it's just a difference of opinion Judes. You are entitled to yours. I don't think it's as big a 
deal as you do, but that's just how things are. No point in getting into it too much. ;) Perhaps it is 
perspective, but I would hesitate before saying I was at a higher vibration than any here. Perhaps 
I'm just modest.;) But even if you are, it would be good for you to "walk a mile in someone else's 
shoes" now and again. Try to see things from different perspectives. It is a very educational 
experience when you can do it without the filter of ego in the way.
   Besides, if you piss them off you're a mile away and you've got their shoes!:)
Travis

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20158
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
   J J Dewey wrote: "[...........] I want you to contemplate a great mystery lying before us in the 
fourth category concerning spiritual wickedness in celestial places.
   "We tend to think that when we progress out of the human kingdom to the kingdom of God that 
the only way to go is up, but is this really the case?"
   Well, as one to Journeys to the Astral and Etheric Planes as well as Parallel Earths regularly, 
my answer is "no". I was "saved" when I was 7 and have had a Wonderful Relationship with 
Jesus my whole life. Yet, when I committed suicide, I did it because I was Depressed and I 
*Continued* at that Same Vibration once out of my body to *The Cold-Dark Place*!!!! That I was 
brought back was a MIRACLE!!! It took me a long time to realize the Full Impact of that.
   "Do we not have the story of Lucifer falling from heaven? Is it possible that even a Master or a 
Logos could turn to evil? If he did, how would that evil manifest?"
   There is a story in Mythology about Atlantis. There was One who walked the Earth as 
Master/Logos/ Christ. It was Time in the Human Evolution to Evolve to the next Higher Level. But 
the People put their Faith in the Machines to do it for them, instead of taking Responsibility for 
themselves and Raising their Consciousness. This would have basically Transformed the Earth 
and left the BEings upon it just hanging out in Space. This would somehow kill the Soul. So the 
Logos made a deal with the Dark Forces, to give the Planet over to them, along with himself in 
order to save all the other Souls and Earth. (Maybe this is when our "Enhanced" DNA was
stripped from us.)
   I'm not telling this Tale as Truth! I'm telling it more or less like a Parable.
   "Hint: Do we ever lose free will?
   "Keep in mind that we are not using evil in the typical context of the religious zealots, but as a 
principle."
   NO, we can never loose it. It was Given to us by God/dess. But, we Can give it away or refuse 
to use it. The Adversary encourages Free Will. Those times when we would Choose to not use 
our Free Will is when we Give our Will back to God/dess, or to "Subjugate" our Will to God/dess. 
Then we would be IN Line with God/dess' Will, because we don't have the Big Picture, nor do we 
Know the Highest Best Good for our selves or others. So, "Thy Will BE done, oh Lord, not mine!"
Namaste
{\@/}
 / \
 * _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
 :) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
******************************
Just to BE is a Blessing.
Just to Live is Holy.
~~Rabbi Abraham Heschel
******************************

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20159
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: Judy><Re: A Great Mystery
   Judy Reese wrote:
"JJ wrote:
   "I do not remember you posting anything abrasive or offensive since you've been on the list 
Diane. The few retorts you gave given have been richly called for."
"Judes:
   "I did not say that she was offensive or abrasive... however she uses snide retorts and petty 
comments as a weapon instead of employing her mind to graciously debate with anyone she 
disagrees with."
   Debate??? Is that what you do???? Is that what you are here for???
   Debating is not the Purpose of this List. We are here, most of us anyway, to *Learn* what JJ 
has to Share with us, and to Share our own Understanding of these *Universal Laws and 
Principles* with each other, in order to Broaden and Grow in our Belief System. "Debating" 
usually leads to Anger and Hurt Feelings.
   Judy, Diane apologized to twice! Once straight forward and once with *humor* which you 
interpreted as "snide." That she chooses not to "Debate"(argue) with you seems to be leaving you 
flustered. But, I've never known Diane to "Debate" with anyone. She says what she has to say in 
the most Loving way she knows how (sometimes that Great Sense of Humor of hers shows 
through), and then drops the subject.
   "Please do not twist my meaning JJ..this too is a nongracious way to debate. The tightness that 
some of you have with each other does not in my opinion preclude being civil. Pettiness to me is 
very irritating and certain people here on this list are being misguided by you, JJ, that this is a 
proper and enlightened way of debating with others."
   Again, the Purpose of this List isn't to Debate with each other or with JJ about his Teachings. 
It's about Learning and Sharing which is an entirely Different Perspective than Debating!
   If you quit trying to Debate with people, Judy, you might find that tight little group would 
Welcome you with Open arms. But that also requires you to be Willing to let down your defense, 
walls and barbs.
   "At first I found this confusing that you condoned this type of behavior above the principles that 
you teach but then I have come to realize that you yourself do not practice what you teach. Well..I 
am for one am not impressed. The actions have to be sincere and living the truth has to be real. 
Hypocrisy will not bring the Christ Consciousness to itself. I suggest that you look at it now and 
correct this character flaw in yourself and guide other members of your group. And if you judge 
others for not being perfected then those hypocrites amongst your group should demonstrate the 
qualities of perfection."
   Look in the Mirror, Judy. You are seeing a Mirror in JJ.
   JJ is one of the most tolerant, Loving, Open Hearted men that I've ever met.
   "I do not judge others..."
   HA HA HA HA! oops! ROF LOL wiping tears from eyes and climbing back up into chair to 
type.......
   Being Critical of others is not Judgmental???
   "but I must speak up and out about this trend toward hypocrisy and dishonesty. Either you are 
totally unaware of this trend or you put yourselves above petty behavior...I do not know."
   I must be totally blind! I don't see these "qualities" in JJ at all.
   Judy, you take things way too Personally. Life is SOOO Much easier if you can move beyond 
that. Judy, you are highly Empathic gal. It would be in your own Best Interest to get a handle on 
your Emotions! May I recommend a book to help you, "The 4 Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz, 
available from Amazon.com
 ~~~ Namaste & JOY & Illumination ~~
 ~Sharri Lorraine ~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
 Love Relaxes, Releases, & Reflects
 Anything Unlike ItSelf.
 --Anonymous--
^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^
^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20160
From: "Volker Munz" 
Subject: cultivating pure indifference, learning how not to squint
   unlike others on this list, i find judy's sensitivity endearing... cancer? scorpio? pisces?... it's not 
judy that has a problem, my friends, it's u, with all ur high flown jabberwocky about principles & 
love & the shift into higher states of consciousness... & the thing that really bites my ass is that 
most of u consider ur selves christians - jumpin jesus, the blind leading the blind as long as they 
agree on the Consensus...
   u kan swim for the goal or u kan float with the tide - secure conventionality or the wind on ur 
face as u freefall - naked in ur own individuality, sekure enuff in Faith that u don't need to bite the 
other flowers in the garden or argue with them about who is more beautiful - a beauty that's 
typecast is no beauty at all - it's cast, like plaster of paris, u bunch of rubes... my footprints wash 
away with every breath I take, i kant see around korners the way a kat does, but jesus on 
crutches, neither kan i see my self sized for a suit before the walmart lady entices me to follow 
her home... i've bin housebroken too many times to fall for that one... & i've gone around the 
block enuff times to know that what sum of u are doing is 'unconscionable' & all this krap is done 
in the name of god & so on & so forth... kan this many people be spiritually myopic... 
dunnerwetter, unheimlich was meine augen fasse... das es sowas gibt...
   a wave of a hand in china will, in time, waft thru my remaining hairs... the bars & the opium 
dens will close & as i walk home thru the alleys, from a grotto sumwhere, a praying mantis will 
klack his mandibles over my soul & i will becum pure Spirit...
   & judes, the eye is designed to see from the inside out, not the other way around - u kan hurt ur 
self severely by looking from the outside in - it's unnatural - against principles... take kare, sweetie 
- cultivate ur soul & ur gift - listen to sum eric satie & tell the Big World to take a hike...
   where others find flaws, i find beauty... conformity is the big black nine pound boot that u used 
to dial on... but most of us ain't dialing now, not in the true sense of the word - what r we doing: 
punching in numbers... what wud be the word for that?
   drinks for the howse & a leashed, clacking lobster fo the lady in red...
   au revoir, johnny kanuck... hi ho, hi ho, it's off to w...... ciao, mes
amis... i am off to the vinyl cafe... tout suite...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20161
From: Diane Linen
Subject: (OT) Mexico Braced For Eruption
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1073000/1073155.stm
   I remember the last large eruption in 1996 and it made the sunsets turn green. Most unusual, at 
least it was for me.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20162
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial Places
   I found Sharri Lorraine's comments very interesting! I have thought about this particular topic for 
some years and have come across similar information to Sharri's.
   I have changed my opinion regarding the Grey's a few times. The Grey's are either as bad as 
Sharri indicates, or just plain incompetent in their methods, when viewed from our limited 
perspective. The Reptilians seem to have always been labeled as the bad guys in our 
neighborhood. There does seem to be some kind of relationship between the two. If I had to 
choose between the two groups I would pick the Greys over the Reptilians. The Reptilians 
definitely do not believe in the freedom principle.
   The Grey's seem to have some sort of caretaker role with regard to this planet. Over eons of 
time the Greys have engaged in some sort of genetic manipulation of the many species residing 
on Earth. The Greys have been referred to as the 'Gardner's of the Earth'. Whether they are good 
caretakers, bad caretakers, or just incompetent caretakers I do not know? Both the Grey's and 
the Reptilians have their own agenda. Each agenda is not necessarily compatible with the other. 
The Grey's and Reptilians operate independently of each other. They stay out of each others way 
most of the time. They do not get along. I think they have a grudging respect for each others 
abilities and choose to avoid each other, rather than fight openly. There is no question that both 
the Grey's and the Reptilians look upon us the same way we look at pets. (The Hitler, Churchill 
dog analogy J.J. used is quite fitting.)
Rapter
Keith
   (I do not know that anything I have written above is true. It is just speculation and opinion. 
Remember, Aristotle said opinion and speculation isn't worth a plug nickel. He didn't really say 
that did he?)

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20163
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial Places
   I like your speculations, Keith. I have been wondering if anyone here has actually seen a gray 
or a reptilian. I am pretty sure I haven't or at least I certainly don't recall it. Is this one of those 
areas where you don't/won't believe unless you have a personal experience or see one for 
yourself? I know of people who don't believe in UFO's either but when I saw some, I became a 
believer. As to who they belong to, now that's a different subject. For all I know they were our own 
military's secret crafts. 
   I also like how you tied together the dogs of Hitler and us by entities of another realm. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20164
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness
   What could the evil be in the celestial realms?
   In the Book of Job God gives council to Satan and other Sons of God. How does Satan, who 
has fallen, gain access to God's council. In the Gospels, Jesus is tempted by the devil in the 
desert. The devil states that the world and all of its glory is his to give. How does the devil, who 
has fallen, have title over the world?
   If we are in the same position as Hitler's dog (not Churchill's), with respect to the high celestial 
places in are immediate vicinity, then we have a more difficult road to haul. It would be easier for 
us, if we were in the same position as Churchill's dog, with respect to the high celestial places.
   It seems we find ourselves in the wrong neck of the universe. In other words, we have been 
born in a bad neighborhood. We may very well be in a ghetto neighbor of the known universe.
   Thus the spiritual wickedness in high celestial places is akin to being born in a Harlem slum 
with a bunch of crooked cops, politicians and street thugs running the joint. We know that a good 
government rules the country, but in are neck of the woods everything has gone to hell.
Rapter
Keith

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20165
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Hint
   J J Dewey wrote: "Did either dog question the integrity of their masters? Were either able to see 
any evil in the kingdom above them?
   "Now use the law of correspondences and apply this to the human kingdom as it relates to the 
Kingdom of God. Is it possible that "spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places" may appear to 
be good from our perspective?"
   I think it is possible that spiritual wickedness in the higher realm may appear good to us in our 
realm. Could their mischief be meant to teach us a lesson on some level we are unaware of in 
this realm? Sort of like marionette masters pulling strings. 
   Do we help our pets by having vets do things to heal or help them and is that interfering with 
their lives? Yes. Is this the way the higher realms think of us by experimenting with us? Possibly. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20166
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial Places
   I have long thought of the earth as a particularly hellish place to live. It's up to us to raise the 
consciousness of its inhabitants. Perhaps other 'mansions' in the heavens are of a higher level of 
existence. Perhaps other 'mansions' are not of the physical realm as is Earth. 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-16/20167
From: "Volker Munz" 
Subject: black dogs,ashmoles & fools
   one fool to another
   hey kids, we gotta close the circle cuz there's new kids in the neighbourhood...
   jj - this is ur list man, how kan u let shit like this go down - maybe u don't kare, which is kool, but 
there's only one way it kan go, chumly - down the tube...
   i dig the list, jj, but jumpin jay, a lotta weird shit comes down the turnpike, n'est-ce pas... we're 
all chatterboxes, not so, but for what... bs bailey, kwaj kahule, gi gurdjieff, chuck manson... cum 
on guys, try looking in ur own souls, listening to ur own shit... if ur serious about all this shit then 
look to ur own souls - assuming u have one - methinks u'd rather bullshit about crap u don't really 
know but it helps to talk about it... as if it's real... like the void ur trying to fill... & yes, mr adautte, i 
wait for sum tranquil & professional reply to this affront to the integrity if this list... replay this shit 
for the last ten, twelve daze, man, & whadda ya get??? sh... , well, u know - air... heated & 
bundled in yesterdays digestive happenings...
   hey privacy, jahnihah, hey judy, judes, antiquities & aquatities: i ain't got ur address: this is 
mine: volkerm@netidea.com... be nice to hear from u - sumtimes... & if hst is out there 
sumwhere, sheeps ranch, ramsbottom ranch, whatever, hunter, u ashmole, gimme a call... long 
time, man... one ashmole nosing another... ciao, franko
ashmoleous....DHPPS...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20168
From: xavier 
Subject: 
   For those that are interested in the study of Franz Bardon, I found a very good forum about it:
   FranzBardonMagi@egroups.com
   It's really excellent.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20169
From: Christopher Wynter 
Subject: Re: [Dianel] Re: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial
   you wrote: "I like your speculations, Keith. I have been wondering if anyone here has actually 
seen a gray or a reptilian."
   Yes to both .. and when greeted by one being in full integrity of the self they back off .. they feed 
on the fear emanating from those who fear their presence.
   But there are others .. whom are referred to as "The Gardner's" and the more insidious ones 
are the "Gardner Harvesters"
   These are of a higher realm than the Greys and the Reptilians.
   again, these levels of consciousness have a purpose .. and when one finds full integrity within 
the self, these have no further power over the individual ...
   Once the nature of the Greys, the Reptilians, the Harvesters and the Gardner's are understood, 
the plan unfolds .. but, that is another story .. if any one here wants read more . I will write of my 
experiences with these forms .. but, they may be considered off topic.
   BTW .. The personality I has no free will .. and no choice ..
   The personality I is motivated by fear .. and only when one moves beyond the I of the 
personality to the I of individuality as an expression of the heart does the power of choice exist
   Until then .. all are puppets .. as every choice where there is a motive or a hope or expectation 
of outcome is based on a reaction .. and where the act is based on reacting, the will of the act is 
not free.
   "I am pretty sure I haven't or at least I certainly don't recall it. Is this one of those areas where 
you don't/won't believe unless you have a personal experience or see one for yourself? I know of 
people who don't believe in UFO's either but when I saw some, I became a believer. As to who 
they belong to, now that's a different subject. For all I know they were our own military's secret 
crafts."
   the USAF does have several "Flying Saucer" squadrons .. there are seven bases that I know of 
which are located on major earth electromagnetic grid points.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20170
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: Hint
   J J Dewey wrote: "[.........] Is it possible that "spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places" may 
appear to be good from our perspective?"
   Well, Ya.
   Jehovah wasn't the only God way back when... Every Tribe/Race/Clan/People had their own 
"Sponsoring" God, who took care of them *in return* for homage (STS). Jehovah just had better 
Technology than the other Gods, so he could "out Miracle" the other Gods. This doesn't mean 
that these Gods were necessarily "Good or Evil" They gave us Wonderful things like make-up, 
Pharmacology, metallurgy, written language, among other things. That's "Good" - right? But, the 
help with metallurgy was for making war, and that's "Evil." Right? It's easy to make that 
Judgment. When in Truth from the Celestial Perspective it was ALL *Interference* with Humans. 
It was ALL in direct violation of *The Creator's* Laws and Dictates.
   (Something happened, somewhere along this World's TimeLine which Physically Separated us 
from the Gods, who now seem to be confined to the Celestial Realms (Astral, Etheric and +???).
Namaste
{\@/}
 / \
 * _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~
JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles!
 :) :)
Sharri Lorraine~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^
"Angels Transcend every religion,
every philosophy, every creed. In fact,
Angels have no religion as we know it.....
their existence precedes every religious
system that has ever existed on Earth."
 ~~ St. Thomas Aquinas ~

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20171
From: Sharri Lorraine 
Subject: Re: Loving our Neighbors
   xavier wrote: "Just show your power, your Martian power. Be a warrior, have a sword in your 
hand, otherwise they will always get you. ("they" but in fact you, yourself)
   "(I'm gonna end up choosing this as a permanent signature : let's be warriors)
   "Self (and I mean Higher Self) respect demands being a warrior."
Xavier,
   You are asking a Woman from Venus to act like a Man from Mars???? ~LOL!!
   It's entirely possible to be Sweet and Gentle and still be a Warrior. Just because a person is a 
Warrior doesn't mean that they need or should flay others with their sword! Nor should the 
Warrior turn the tongue into a sword, either. (Warrior should not be confused with Soldier.)
   A True Warrior Lives with Integrity and Justice. A Warrior Speaks the Truth, no matter what, but 
Gently and with Consideration for other's. A Warrior is Self Reflective, looking Within, in order to 
BE Guided by Truth and Light.
   Sounds a lot like Diane, to me. ;-)
 ~~~ Namaste & JOY & Illumination ~~
 ~Sharri Lorraine ~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lorerainbow/
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
 Love Relaxes, Releases, & Reflects
 Anything Unlike ItSelf.
 --Anonymous--
^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^
^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20172
From: "Rapter" 
Subject: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness 2
   In the Bible Daniel is visited by an Archangel. The Archangel apologizes for being late. 
According to the Angel, strong forces of evil prevented him from coming sooner. The Archangel 
says, he fought for weeks trying to get to Daniel and needed confederate help in arriving.
   Obviously, this neck of the woods is in open warfare and is not dominated completely by one 
side or the other. Kind of gives you the creeps, doesn't it.
Rapter
Keith
(pleasant dreams)

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20173
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: [Dianel] Re: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial
   Christopher Wynter wrote: "you wrote: "I like your speculations, Keith. I have been wondering if 
anyone here has actually seen a gray or a reptilian."
   "Yes to both .. and when greeted by one being in full integrity of the self they back off .. they 
feed on the fear emanating from those who fear their presence."
Chris, 
   If you and I were to meet, I would see you as a 3D person as I see others that I meet. On what 
level does one see or meet these creatures/entities? 
   "But there are others .. whom are referred to as "The Gardeners" and the more insidious ones 
are the "Gardner Harvesters"
   "These are of a higher realm than the Greys and the Reptilians.
   "again, these levels of consciousness have a purpose .. and when one finds full integrity within 
the self, these have no further power over the individual ..."
   Well, now this sounds quite frightening; these harvesters and gardeners. 
   "Once the nature of the Greys, the Reptilians, the Harvesters and the Gardeners are 
understood, the plan unfolds .. but, that is another story .. if any one here wants read more . I will 
write of my experiences with these forms .. but, they may be considered off topic."
   Hoooboy! I would like to know more since I've never had this opportunity before. 
Thanks 
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20174
From: ANDREWBURITO NYERERE 
Subject: 
   there is no wickedness in celestial places. the lord will help you when He thinks you are in 
trouble, not when you think you need help.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20175
From: "Lawrence Kennon" 
Subject: Re: Hint
   "Now use the law of correspondences and apply this to the human kingdom as it relates to the 
Kingdom of God. Is it possible that "spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places" may appear to 
be good from our perspective?"
      From Essential Principles of Discovery:
13. "The Law of Correspondences." The principle behind it is 
 "as above so below," and vice versa. 
   The "vice versa" part is the interesting part of this law. If there is spiritual wickedness in this 
realm, then by correspondence there must be spiritual wickedness in the realm above. As have 
mentioned before, there is the example of Lucifer. 
   To answer your question though, if a high being such as Lucifer would appear to me today it 
might very well be that he would appear to me as a being of light, and hopefully I would be able to 
discern through soul contact that he was not that being of light that all my other faculties might 
present him to be. Hopefully.
   From our perspective there is the assumption that if it "walks like a dog", "talks like a dog", and 
"barks like a dog", it is a dog. Similarly if it "talks like a god", "looks like a god", etc. then one 
might assume it is a god? I suppose that that just goes to show that it is dangerous to make 
assumptions, but everything must be put to the test (which I believe you have pointed out before -
- everyone to the highest angel must be tested through the soul).
lk

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20176
From: Christopher Wynter 
Subject: Re: [Dianel] Reptiles, Greys, Goblins and
   you wrote: "Chris, If you and I were to meet, I would see you as a 3D person as I see others 
that I meet. On what level does one see or meet these creatures/entities?"
   There are five senses associated with the gross 3D body .. which is the lowest manifestation of 
energy...
   In the most common of the models used, there are 5 other bodies (some say 7) of decreasing 
density .. there are the same 5 senses associated with each of these other bodies.
   The dimension/density of "seeing" the Reptilian and the Greys can vary as they are 
"interdimensional" in the respect that they can appear in the emotional, the mental and the etheric 
planes .. this is complex to explain, because there are other factors of time and space that come 
into play here .. the closest description I can give is perhaps, for me, it would be like how some 
people describe "seeing ghosts" or seeing "auras" when there is no physical body present ..
   They communicated with me by thought .. (which some call telepathy ..) and through emotional 
responses..
   These levels of seeing can be easily achieved .. as children we could see much more than we 
are able to now .. but that was shut down .. either from fear .. or because it wasn't safe.
   When I meet someone in the street, I see much more than the 3D physicality .. i see each 
individual as a transparent hologram ..
   "But there are others .. whom are referred to as "The Gardeners" and the more insidious ones 
are the "Gardener Harvesters"
   "These are of a higher realm than the Greys and the Reptilians. again, these levels of 
consciousness have a purpose .. and when one finds full integrity within the self, these have no 
further power over the individual ..."
   "Well, now this sounds quite frightening; these harvesters and gardeners."
   The gardeners were just that .. they tended the "earth garden" and the first souls to come here 
.. they are basically OK JC, Buddha, Krishna could be described as "gardeners" .. and there are 
many others "floating around" .. some refer to some of them as the "Hierarchy" but they are not 
that ..
   The harvesters were another part of the "earth experiment' but they had a different motive .. a 
bit like a scientist cultivates laboratory mice in order to use them for some experiment ...
   What wasn't understood as part of the first "inhabitation" was there was an interaction between 
the DNA of the life forms that the soul chose to incarnate into and the soul energy itself .. so that 
both the nature of the DNA and the Soul changed from what it originally was.
   The resultant was a number of mutations which still exist in different time space continuums .. 
(this is where several groups of the reptilians come from)
   Once this process is understood, they are not scary .. just not understood .. and neither do they 
understand us ..
   Many of then are just like "lost souls" .. and there are many lost souls floating around from 
civilisations past who are still trapped here because most do not understand them .. for example 
.. you cannot send an ancient Chinese to White Light nor can you heal American Indian or 
Australian Aboriginal with "White Light" because to them, this is meaningless ... so if someone 
has Chinese or Indian influence in their souls or their DNA, this cannot be healed by Christian 
based tradition .. which means intrinsically that the Christian Healing Principle can only go back 
as far as the beginning of the Christian Era .. and in the TimeLine of the Gardner's of the Souls of 
this planet, that's about 1 mangrove in all of the swamps of the Everglades ..
   But that's another story ..
   Watch out for the Alligators .. and in the forests in Northern NSW, the biologists have just 
identified another plant that existed in its present form 7 million years ago .. a living fossil ...
 "There is more in Heaven and Earth Horatio ..
 than in all of your philosophies .."
 Wlm Shakespeare writing as Hamlet

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20177
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: The Four Evils (Part I)
   I am sorry that Judes, Volker and possibly others may suffer grievances toward some people on 
this list, but please, let us lay negativity aside and proceed. Sincere disagreements and questions 
that can be specifically explored are no problem, but let us put aside negative feelings and move 
on, explore and learn from each other.
   We did not come to this list to be criticized nor have repentance preached to us, but to learn 
from one another. If that was what is desired all we need to do is visit our ex spouses. For those 
who do not find what you want on the list no one is forcing you to be here and there are many 
other discussion groups out there to fit every emotion.
   To fit in with the agenda of this class I think one should ask this question before making a post.
   "Is what I have written here something that will lead to greater light, love, knowledge and 
enjoyment for the group as a whole while at the same time not distracting from the topic?
   We are not rigid here and if you want to post something off topic, short and sweet, as Chris did 
about cats the other day, or as Samu does with scientific discoveries - that just adds a little spice 
that we all need from time to time.
The Question:
   There is a basic four square of evil as mentioned in Eph 6:11-12 which the disciples of light 
must deal with.
They are:
(1) Principalities or sovereignties.
(2) Powers or authorities
(3) Rulers of the darkness of this world
(4) Spiritual wickedness in high (celestial) places."
   Who or what are these four categories of evil? Why are they evil and what can we do to 
overcome them?
   What could be the evil in the celestial realms?
   Before I begin let us reiterate the definition of evil. It is important here that when we define evil 
that we do not envision demons dripping slime, for such a thought distracts from real 
understanding of the principle. An evil force is that which keeps us from moving forward in our 
evolution. In other words, evil pulls us backward and good pushes us forward.
   The first evil: "Principalities or sovereignties." What are these and why does Paul call them evil?
   The first evil translated as "principalities" in the King James comes from the Greek ARCHE. The 
"arch" part of archangel comes from this word. When this word is used in connection to a person 
or institution it implies that this person or organization has the highest possible authority. For 
instance the Supreme Court of the United States which was recently the final authority on the 
election is the ARCHE court in the land. The Vatican is the ARCHE organization of the Catholic 
Church and the Pope is the ARCHE guy. The American Medical Association is the ARCHE group 
regulating medicine and so on.
   The Principalities (ARCHE) then are authorities set in place in all the institutions and 
organizations throughout the earth. We all have little or no choice about their positioning.
   In their present state of organization do any of them aid us in moving forward in our spiritual 
progression?
   Rarely.
   Do they hinder progression?
   Usually.
   For instance, when is the last time you heard new light and truth revealed by the Vatican or any 
other ARCHE religious organization?
   Is the American Medical Association avant guard in promoting a cure for cancer or do they 
resist the real cures?
   Thus we establish that the first evil the workers in the light must overcome are the established 
authorities set rigidly in place upon the earth.
   The second evil is translated in the King James as "powers." This comes from the Greek 
EXOUSIA and is sometimes translated as "authority," "power," "privilege" or "mastery."
   This second evil also represents authority over our lives, but is a totally different authority from 
the first. The ARCHE authorities have power over the populace whether we will it or not. They are 
just there and there is not much we can do about it. However, this second authority (EXOUSIA) is 
one that we accept of our own free will. The EXOUSIA are those who we call our heroes, idols, 
celebrities, experts and teachers who we willingly embrace merely because we adore them and 
put them on a pedestal. While we cannot do much about who is appointed to the Supreme Court, 
and their effect on us, we do have full power as to who we pick to give our power and allegiance 
to.
   Who are some of the EXOUSIA in this day and age? They are our movie stars, sports figures, 
our favorite writers, directors, television personalities, talk show hosts, and cult leaders.
   There are some who are ARCHE as well as EXOUSIA authorities. Take Bill Clinton for 
example. He can make a decree that affects us such as tying up clean burning coal reserves in 
Utah and there is nothing we can do about this effect. On the other hand, many give him their 
power because they adore him and are willing to subject themselves to his every whim through 
their own free will. Barbara Streisand, for instance, will jump at his EXOUSIA authority but to 
Larry or Travis here on the list Clinton has no such authority.
   Why does Paul call these celebrity type authorities evil?
   Answer: Because this type of authority comes from glamour and illusion and is rarely reliable. 
The receiver believes the authority because he is famous or adored by millions and often does 
not think out the matter for himself.
   Because of the power of EXOUSIA most manufacturers seek out celebrities to endorse their 
products. The illusionary authority of the famous ones has been proven to influence millions, even 
though they may not use the product or have any knowledge of it.
   Celebrities, as a whole, operate in the world of illusion and glamour and act as a fog which 
hides the light rather than direct the hearts and minds of the masses toward the light.
   When a true light does step forward do the celebrities recognize the good and endorse it? You 
see lots of celebrities claiming to be for the environment, but have you seen even one of them 
risking anything to promote or finance a clean burning engine?
   Rarely do you see them promote anything that they are not paid big bucks to promote.
   While it is true that you and I have the free will to reject the endorsements of celebrities it is also 
true that they affect the thoughts and desires of millions of people and these millions have a mass 
effect that reaches us all and often causes great resistance to true spiritual work.
   For instance, if someone at Oscar time were to make a wise crack about a struggling disciple 
this one simple statement may have the power to bury a work of service forever.
   It is the destiny of business to evolve and become a great force of light to bring in the New Age, 
yet what does Hollywood do? In movie after movie the arch villain is a business person. The 
number of bad guys in the movies who are business people is a hundred times out of proportion 
to reality. When has a business person ever tried to take over the world or blow up the World 
Trade Center? Never. But when has a politician tried to do so? A number of times as far as taking 
over the world and they regularly attempt to blow things up through unnecessary war or intrigue.
   Before the disciple finds his true path he will be captured by this illusionary authority of 
EXOUSIA which will be an "evil" force to tempt him to go backwards in his progression.
   Overcoming this authority is well illustrated in the story of the third labor of Hercules as related 
by Alice A. Bailey, especially in the account of the false teacher Busiris.
   The Gathering the Golden Apples of the Hesperides 
   (Gemini, May 21st - June 20th)
   The great Presiding One, within the Council Chamber of the Lord, had watched the labors of 
the son of man who is a son of God. He and the Teacher saw the third great Gate, opening 
before the son of man, revealing a new chance to tread the Way. They noted how the laborer 
arose and prepared to enter on his task. "Send out the word to guard the sacred tree. Let 
Hercules unfold the power to search without discouragement, deception or too great a speed. Let 
perseverance now be called upon. He has done well so far." And thus the word went forth.
   Far in a distant country grew the sacred tree, the tree of wisdom, and on it grew the golden 
apples of the Hesperides. The fame of these sweet fruits had gone to distant lands, and all the 
sons of men who knew themselves to be likewise the sons of God desired them. Hercules, too, 
knew of these fruits, and when the word went forth to seek for them he sought the Teacher, 
asking Him the way to go and find the sacred tree and pick the apples.
   "Tell me the way, O Teacher of my soul. I seek the apples and I need them quickly for my use. 
Show me the quickest way and I will go!"
   "Not so, my son", replied the Teacher, "the way is long. Two things alone I will confide to you, 
and then it is for you to prove the truth of what I say. Remember that the sacred tree is guarded 
well. Three maidens fair cherish the tree, protecting well its fruit. A dragon with one hundred 
heads protects the maidens and the tree. Guard thyself well from strength too great for thee, from 
wiles too subtle for thy comprehension. Watch well. The second thing that I would say to thee is 
that thy search will carry thee where five great tests will meet thee on the Way. Each will afford 
thee scope for wisdom, understanding, skill and opportunity. Watch well. I fear, my son, that you 
will fail to recognize these points upon the Way. But time alone will show; God speed thee in thy 
search."
   With confidence, because success nor failure held for him a claim, Hercules went forth upon the 
Way, sure of himself, his wisdom and his strength. Through the third Gate he passed, going due 
north. Throughout the land he passed, seeking the sacred tree, but found it not. All men he met 
he questioned, but none could guide him on his way; none knew the place. Time passed, yet still 
he sought, wandering from place to place and returning oft upon his steps to the third Gate. Sad 
and discouraged, still he sought on every hand.
   The Teacher, watching from afar, sent Nereus to see if he could aid. Time and again he came, 
in varying form and with differing words of truth, but Hercules responded not, nor knew him for the 
messenger he was. Skilled though he was in speech and wise with the deep wisdom of a son of 
God, Nereus failed, for Hercules was blind. He did not recognize the help so subtly proffered. 
Returned at length with sadness to the Teacher, Nereus spoke of failure.
   "The first of the five lesser tests is passed," replied the Teacher, and failure marks this stage. 
Let Hercules proceed."
   Finding no sacred tree upon the northern way, Hercules turned towards the south and in the 
place of darkness continued with his search. At first he dreamed of quick success, but Antaeus, 
the serpent, met him on that way and wrestled with him, overcoming him at every point.
   "He guards the tree," said Hercules, "this I was told, so near him must be the tree. I must break 
down his guard and, thus destroying him, break down and pluck the fruit." Yet, wrestling with 
much strength, he conquered not.
   "Where lies my fault?" said Hercules. "Why can Antaeus conquer me? E'en when an infant I 
destroyed a serpent in my cot. With my own hands I strangled it. Why fail I now?"
   Wrestling again with all his might, he grasped the serpent with both hands, lifting it high in air, 
away from off the ground. And lo! the deed was done: Antaeus, vanquished, spoke:
   "I come again in different guise at the eighth Gate. Prepare again to wrestle."
   The Teacher, gazing from afar, saw all that happened, and to the great Presiding One who sits 
within the Council Chamber of the Lord he spoke, reporting on the deed.
   "The second test is passed. The danger is surmounted. Success at this point marks his way."
   And the great Presiding One replied: "Let him proceed."
   Happy and confident, Hercules went on, sure of himself and with new courage for the search. 
Now to the west he turned himself and, turning thus, he met disaster. He entered without thought 
upon the third great test and failure met him and for long delayed his steps.
   For there he met Busiris, the great arch-deceiver, son of the waters, of close kin to Poseidon. 
His is the work to bring delusion to the sons of men through words of seeming wisdom. He claims 
to know the truth and with quickness they believe. He speaks fair words saying:
   "I am the teacher. To me is given knowledge of the truth and sacrifice for me. Accept the way of 
life through me. I know, but no-one else. My truth is right. All other truth is wrong and false. Hark 
to my words; stay with me and be saved."
   And Hercules obeyed, and daily weakened on the early way (third test) seeking no further for 
the sacred tree. His strength was sapped. He loved, adored Busiris, and accepted all he said. 
Weaker from day to day he grew, until there came a day when his loved teacher bound him to an 
altar and kept him bound throughout a year.
   Suddenly one day, when struggling to be free, and slowly seeing Busiris for what he was, words 
spoken long ago by Nereus came to his mind:
   "Truth lies within yourself. There is a higher power and strength and wisdom in yourself. Turn 
inwards and there evoke the strength which is, the power which is the heritage of all the sons of 
men who are the sons of God."
   Silent lie lay a prisoner on the altar, bound to its corners four for one whole year. Then, with the 
strength which is the strength of all the sons of God, he broke his bonds, seized the false teacher 
(who had seemed so wise) and bound him to the altar in his place. He spoke no word, but left him 
there to learn.
   The watching Teacher, from afar, noted the moment of release, and turning to Nereus said: 
"The third great test is passed. You taught him how to meet it and in due time he profited. Let him 
go forward on the Way and learn the secret of success.
   Chastened, yet full of questioning relief, Hercules continued with his search and wandered far. 
The year, spent prone upon the altar, had taught him much. He went with greater wisdom on his 
way.
   Suddenly, he halted in his steps. A cry of deep distress smote on his ear. Some vultures circling 
o'er a distant rock caught his attention; then again the cry broke forth. Should he proceed upon 
his way, or should he seek the one who seemed in need and thus retard his steps? He pondered 
on the problem of delay; a year had now been lost; he felt the need for haste. Again a cry broke 
forth and Hercules, with rapid steps, sped to his brother's help. He found Prometheus chained 
upon a rock, suffering dire agonies of pain, caused by the vultures plucking at his liver, thus 
slowly killing him. He broke the binding chain and freed Prometheus, chasing the vultures to their 
distant lair, and tending the sick man until he had recovered from his wounds. Then, with much 
loss of time, he again started to make his way.
   The Teacher, watching from afar, spoke to his seeking pupil these clear words, the first words 
spoken to him since he entered on his search:
   "The fourth stage on the way unto the sacred tree is passed. There has been no delay. The rule 
upon the chosen Path which hastens all success is, 'Learn to serve'."
   The Presiding One, within the Council Chamber of the Lord, remarked: "He has done well. 
Continue with the tests."
   Upon all ways the search went on, and north and south and east and west, the sacred tree was 
sought, but was not found. There came a day when, worn with fear and traveling, he heard a 
rumor from a passing pilgrim on the way that, near a distant mountain, the tree was to be found, 
the first true statement given him as yet. Therefore he turned his feet to the high mountains of the 
east and, on a bright and sunny day, he saw the object of his search and hastened then his 
steps.
   "Now I shall touch the sacred tree," he shouted in his joy, "surmount the guarding dragon; see 
the fair maidens of wide fame; and pluck the apples."
   But again, he was arrested by a sense of deep distress. Atlas confronted him, staggering 'neath 
the load of worlds upon his back. His face was lined with suffering; his limbs were bowed with 
pain; his eyes were closed with agony; he asked no help; he saw not Hercules but stood bowed 
down with pain, with the weight of worlds. Hercules. trembling, watched and gauged the measure 
of the load and pain. He forgot about his search. The sacred tree and apples faded from mind; he 
only sought to aid the giant and that without delay; forward he rushed and eagerly removed the 
load, lifting it off the shoulders of his brother onto his own back, shouldering the burden of the 
worlds himself. He closed his eyes, bracing himself with effort, and lo! the load rolled off, and he 
stood free, and likewise Atlas.
   Before him stood the giant and in his hand he held the golden apples, offering them, with love, 
to Hercules. The search was o'er. The sisters three held still more golden apples, and pressed 
them likewise
into his hands, and Aegle, that fair maid who is the glory of the setting sun, said unto him, placing 
an apple in his hand, "The Way to us is always marked by service. Deeds of love are signposts 
on the Way." Then Erytheia, who keeps the gate which all must pass before they stand alone 
before the great Presiding One, gave him an apple and upon its side, inscribed in light, was writ 
the golden word of Service. "Remember this," she said, "forget it not."
   And lastly Hesperis came, the wonder of the evening star, and said to him with clarity and love, 
"Go forth and serve, and tread the way, from henceforth and for aye, of all world servers."
   "Then I give back these apples for those who follow on," said Hercules, and returned from 
whence he came.
   Before the Teacher then he stood and rendered due account of all that had transpired. To him 
the Teacher gave the word of cheer and then with pointing finger indicated the fourth Gate and 
said to him:
"Pass through that Gate. Capture the doe and enter once again the Holy Place."
End of Part I
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20178
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: A Great Mystery
JJ
   Do we not have the story of Lucifer falling from heaven? 
Marylin
   Yes
JJ
   Is it possible that even a Master or a Logos could turn to evil? 
Marylin
   Yes
JJ
   If he did, how would that evil manifest?
Marylin
   This reminds me of the "Prophecy" set of movies. The angel Gabriel, I think, fell from grace and 
did evil things. I liked "Prophecy 4" the best because Gabriel was finally making a turn around. I 
guess the evil manifests by choice and/or intention.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20179
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of
   Samu writes: "there are planets that are just too hot/cold to sustain life like ours"
   This still doesn't mean that there isn't a form of life there. There are "fish" at the bottom of our 
oceans living at a depth that crush our bodies. So to say that some planets "can't" have any life is 
not quite correct. As JJ wrote previously, if we went back 100,000 years in a time machine, we 
wouldn't be able to survive in the atmosphere. And that is right here on earth. It's a matter of 
adjustment to the climate. We have bacteria here on earth that live in extremely cold areas so 
why could some bacteria exist in extremely hot areas? 
   And the scientists still don't know a whole lot about Jupiter. Or they won't accept the idea of 
considering the information of what some remote viewers say they saw at the core of Jupiter. If I 
remember correctly, one said he saw what looked solid as opposed to what he had just "moved" 
through.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20180
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: black dogs,ashmoles & fools
   Volker writes: "i dig the list, jj, but jumpin jay, a lotta weird bleep comes down the turnpike, 
n'est-ce pas... we're all chatterboxes, not so, but for what... bs bailey, kwaj kahule, gi gurdjieff, 
chuck manson... bleep on guys, try looking in ur own souls, listening to ur own bleep... if ur 
serious about all this bleep then look to ur own souls - assuming u have one - methinks u'd rather 
bullbleep about crap u don't really know but it helps to talk about it... as if it's real... like the void ur 
trying to fill... & yes, mr adautte, i wait for sum tranquil & professional reply to this affront to the 
integrity if this list... replay this bleep for the last ten, twelve daze, man, & whadda ya get??? sh... 
, well, u know - air... heated & bundled in yesterdays digestive happenings..."
   "As a man thinketh, so is he"

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20181
From: "Melva Broderick" 
Subject: Evil in High Places & Hitler's Pup
   Hello again my fine friends that I have yet to meet or make..I am ever the optimist..
   It is I..the sporadic poster..the one who posts on merkabas approx. twice a year and then drops 
out of sight.
   I am once again posting..to the matter at hand this time. And I do so want to post lots and lots 
and become a regular, well-liked contributor to the many discussions. In short..I am ON-LINE and 
am ready to participate.
   So..INHHO: I think in order to know what exists in a high place..I would have to be in that place. 
I can IMAGINE what is in high places, tho'. & in the high places that I imagine: there is only peace 
and love and tantric sex on a soul/spirit/bodyless level. (Having experienced sex on the ethereal 
level twice, maybe three times in my life..I highly recommend it and HEY: I'd do it again--so 
there.)
   That is the high place that I create for myself. Don't want no evil doodies in my bubbling blue 
caldron or cosmic juices..unh, unh. Not gonna have no bad boogies in my spiritual palace. No 
sirree bobber.
   & Hitler's pup..Think about how dogs read energy fields. To my way of thinking Herr Hit-ler 
would have an auric, energy field that would have been like a stink bomb. So..let's pretend WE 
ARE THE PUP and daddy's just come home from a long day a work..smelling faintly of charred 
flesh and oh, is that gas? And, daddy doesn't seem too happy today, he seems worried. Just 
what are we willing to do for a biscuit? Do we/can we ignore the aura and stench? Do we wags 
our tail because we loves our papa?
   I don't know..I am asking..I want to know. My mind is inquiring of many things.
   Back to high places.. EVERYTHING has been created from energy which is neither good or 
bad..it just is. Creations have the breath of life breathed into them by the energy..and as they go 
forth from the energy they experience many things. On earth we term things good/bad, 
evil/live..because this is a duality. I would like to think that the duality exists here as a part of our 
earth school.
   I just want things nice, ok? I am the peacemaker. I want a group hug and butterfly kisses.
   I'm in Love With Me and I Feel Fine..
M.el.va

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20182
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: Re: OT - New report offers compelling evidence of
   Marylin wrote: "Samu wrote: "..there are planets that are just too hot/cold to sustain life like 
ours"
   "This still doesn't mean that there isn't a form of life there. There are"fish" at the bottom of our 
oceans living at a depth that crush our bodies. So to say that some planets "can't" have any life is 
not quite correct."
   You're correct of course :) Actually, I don't believe in "can'ts" too much at all. With our *current* 
knowledge, it just seems unlikely, but it is not impossible at all. We simply do not know yet. Plus, 
may of our scientists are kind of conservative in their ways of thinking. And even in places that 
are extremely hot or cold or plain gas, there are also natural processes going on. That too can be 
seen as a form of life.
   "As JJ wrote previously, if we went back 100,000 years in a time machine, we wouldn't be able 
to survive in the atmosphere. And that is right here on earth. It's a matter of adjustment to the 
climate. We have bacteria here on earth that live in extremely cold areas so why could some 
bacteria exist in extremely hot areas?"
   It is entirely possible such exists. It's even quite probably considering the size of the universe; 
the part we are able to observe is like a grain on a beach of sand.
   "And the scientists still don't know a whole lot about Jupiter. Or they won't accept the idea of 
considering the information of what some remote viewers say they saw at the core of Jupiter. If I 
remember correctly, one said he saw what looked solid as opposed to what he had just "moved" 
through."
   It could be that the 'surface' of Jupiter we see is the jovian atmosphere, which is very different 
from ours, and there is a solid object in the middle. Also, even scientists have detected that 
Jupiter's moon Europa might be able to or it has been able to sustain life more like ours; they've 
even detected evidence of frozen water and rivers on its surface. I just recently read an article, I 
wish I could remember where, about scientists recently discovering something that would indicate 
that everything in the universe seems to gravitate towards generating or forming life or higher 
forms of it, becoming linked and forming unity, like there's some an innate pattern we're following 
and bringing about. Makes a whole lot of sense to me :)
   On another note, here is a beautiful picture of The Antennae Galaxies:
http://www.cosmiverse.com/iod/
Love,
Samu

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20183
From: Samu Karlsson 
Subject: Re: Hint
   Hi Shawn, :) and welcome the the list, I don't think I've seen you posting here before :)
Shawn Avery wrote:
   "I believe that we as a species only see what we are allowed to see when we need to see it."
   I think so too. As soon as our sight gets wider and also more fine-tuned, we start catching 
glimpses in the spiritual peripheral vision, so to speak :) We are shown things that hold potential 
for our development, sometimes we take heed from what we are shown, other times we pass the 
chance. When you reach higher, you also see further; which also means you must known where 
you want to go and why, because you have more alternatives to choose from.
   "I also believe that as you have taught, that one day we will surpass our "Master" Jesus himself 
said that we will do greater works than he did."
   I think the reason we will surpass Him is not because we would somehow be more skilled or 
knowledgeable thank Him per se, but we will do greater works because there will several of us 
that are more like Him, working along the guidelines He offered, creating and focusing on a 
coherent goal.
   "I do think that evil could be presented as good. Just look at Organized Religion today!! If we 
don't do exactly as they say we will be damned to Hell for eternity....... Not my Style."
   Mine neither :) Many of religious folks in the world today are blind followers, who have gives 
away their inner authority. JJ has written much about the nature of the beast in the archives.
Again, welcome! :)
Samu

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20184
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: Re: [Dianel] Re: Hint: Spiritual Wickedness in Celestial
   Chris why don't you post your experiences to the cafeteria and post the URL. 
Susan

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20185
From: Christopher Wynter 
Subject: Susan
Susan
   OK .. might do that ..
   It's something that I haven't written yet ... nor have I been ready to talk about it up until now ...
   Can you give me the details for the cafeteria ..?

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20186
From: "susan carter"
Subject: Re: The Four Evils (Part I)
   Both Ren and Susan answer below.
   "The second evil is translated in the King James as "powers." This comes from the Greek 
EXOUSIA and is sometimes translated as "authority," "power," "privilege" or "mastery."
   "This second evil also represents authority over our lives, but is a totally different authority from 
the first. The ARCHE authorities have power over the populace whether we will it or not. They are 
just there and there is not much we can do about it. However, this second authority (EXOUSIA) is 
one that we accept of our own free will. The EXOUSIA are those who we call our heroes, idols, 
celebrities, experts and teachers who we willingly embrace merely because we adore them and 
put them on a pedestal." 
Ren Carter here:
   JJ I find it interesting even though I don't read many posts (Susan reads some of them to me) 
that I would be thinking about this very subject all week. And this has happened many times 
before. I will be thinking about something and then days later Susan will read me something and 
it will be about the very subject I have been contemplating and we will be in agreement. 
   I have been discussing the topic of government with Susan and the people on my bus. In light 
of the final outcome of our presidential election, I have been talking about the differences 
between socialism, communism and capitalism. One of the points I have made is that there is a 
distinct difference between the three. Socialism is the most frightening to me of all three because 
the people willingly give up their freedoms to be taken care of by a ruler who they personally 
worship. 
   As I said Socialism is the scariest because it is EXOUSIA--we chose it. We have no one to 
blame but ourselves. Communism is ARCHE and is forced upon the people against their will. The 
challenge of capitalism is its emphasis on the self and its foundation in gambling, "taking risk" 
with the hope of becoming prosperous. Capitalism appeals to the base appetites of gambling, and 
power by money. We have taken risk to the "nth" degree by borrowing heavily to invest in the 
stock market. It seems to be an addiction.
   Many Christians have made Jesus Christ an EXOUSIA authority. They want Jesus Christ to 
save them and take care of them with little personal responsibility other than accepting Him as 
their Savior Authority (Protestants) or confessing their sins (Catholic). They have limited their 
growth (which was defined as evil) in doing so. It is not that they are aligning their will with God's 
or Jesus's, they are simply not thinking or having a will. Others think that a few outward 
commandments (Mormons) entitles them to some sort of glory without ever aligning their motives 
or hearts to the Consciousness (energy, vibration) of Christ.
   "Before the disciple finds his true path he will be captured by this illusionary authority of 
EXOUSIA which will be an "evil" force to tempt him to go backwards in his progression."
   Even though Jesus' intent was to be a positive force we have turned him into an EXOUSIA 
force. The same thing can be done with JJ and his teachings. Though it does not seem to me to 
be his intent, many could treat JJ with EXOUSIA authority. 
Susan writes:
   This will become more and more of a problem for JJ as his books become more popular and 
more people join the lists. It is hard not to slip into an exousia relationship with a teacher who has 
earned authority with others and has exceptional intellectual gifts. That is why I never 
automatically accept anything JJ says but run it past my soul. Even though he has earned my 
respect in many ways, I will never completely stop "checking up on him."
Ren writes:
   We see examples of this with Joseph Smith, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, Bill and 
Hillary Clinton and so forth. The present day Democratic party is another example because 
people seem to be loyal to it because it will save them and take care of their every need without 
having to earn it. To me the Democrats have become a socialist party.
   It is never anyone else's responsibility to tell me when I am aligned with God. Especially if that 
"alignment" is achieved based upon my compliance to a set of rules or timeline authored by 
someone else. It is my decisions in life that determine my universal destiny, not someone else 
deciding my level of achievement.
Susan adds:
   JJ mentioned entertainment and teachers etc as EXOUSIA authority. We can turn religions and 
politics into EXOUSIA authority, too. The trouble with EXOUSIA authority in politics is that it ends 
up ARCHE authority (kingdoms, principalities). Many feel that Jesus Christ had the blood lineage 
to the actual physical throne of Jerusalem politic and as High Priest in the Jewish religion and 
refused to exert His ARCHE authority in either realm. He also refused EXOUSIA authority by 
saying give the glory to my Father in Heaven.
Ren and Susan

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20187
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: OT Re: Susan
   The Cafeteria is located at:
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/50816
   Christopher Wynter wrote: "OK .. might do that .."
-- 
http://www.greaterthings.com/susan/

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20188
From: J J Dewey 
Subject: Good Shepherds
   Great post Ren and Susan. You work well together. Ren, I can see why Susan is always saying 
good things about your thought process.
   Yes, it is indeed true that all teachers will have this EXOUSIA authority granted to them. This 
was true for Jesus as well as Jim Jones. There is nothing the teacher can do to stop this from 
happening with that certain percentage of students that will not check with their own souls.
   The question for the sincere teacher, who is not seeking power over others, is what shall he do 
then? Shall he cease from teaching at all?
   On the contrary Jesus spoke just the opposite in his advice to Peter when he said:
   "Feed my sheep."
   The sheep are those who will follow a teacher.
   The false teacher will seek to be fed by the sheep.
   The true teacher will seek to feed the sheep.
   Notice that Jesus repeated this instruction to Peter three times and by the third time Peter 
answered with irritation that the Master seemed to think him so dense.
   By feeding the sheep with true knowledge and service they will be quickened in their progress 
so they will be better prepared for the great test when they meet their Busiris who seeks to bind 
them with his power over them.
   Keep checking with your souls, and when the link called in the east the antahkarana is created, 
then the seeker graduates from a sheep to a disciple to a shepherd.
   Note the words of Jesus:
   "I am the good shepherd."
   There are small number of good shepherds and then there are the not-so-good ones. The 
beginning sheep find good or bad shepherds by accident. The more progressed ones recognize 
the good shepherds through the voice of the soul.
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One 
cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the 
marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this 
mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." 
~~Albert Einstein
Copyright 2000 All rights Reserved

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20189
From: "Judy Reese" 
Subject: re: The Four Evils
Ren wrote:
   It is never anyone else's responsibility to tell me when I am aligned with God. Especially if that 
"alignment" is achieved based upon my compliance to a set of rules or timeline authored by 
someone else. It is my decisions in life that determine my universal destiny, not someone else 
deciding my level of achievement.
Judes:
   I could not have said it better. Please listen to what Ren is saying here. This trend or attitude it 
starting to rear its head amongst some within this group and the power of authority over other's 
right to service is being infringed. Look at you who are guilty of usurping rightful authority. I am 
sure that the Nazis themselves started out with small infringements and then got by with them 
until they could no longer discern their own evil ways.
   In my opinion, the only way to keep the evil aspects to the group mentality from overtaking 
reason is to strive to first and foremost achieve soul-contact within the collective before any [and I 
mean ANY] authority is given to the collective.
   So..I feel that you have put the cart before the horse, JJ..and I am already being shown proof 
that my assumption is correct.
"Say what you mean and mean what you say"------JudyKay Reese

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20190
From: "dennis appling" 
Subject: Hi
   I would like to introduce myself to you all. My name is Dennis, I was saved in a Baptist church 
at the age of 7. By the age of 8 or 9 I decided to read the Bible from cover to cover. Which I did , 
finishing up by the age of 12. As I read I would always ask that the Spirit guide me in 
understanding. Always, I received understanding to the maximum of my ability to comprehend, 
and my willingness to abide within the meanings I received. Often this understanding put me at 
odds with my Elders and eventually lead to me seeking truth elsewhere. At a particularly trying 
time in my life with everything turning to dung through no real fault of mine, I felt the presents of 
the Spirit within my mind, comforting me. I wanted answers and refused to take no for an answer. 
When the answers came they were in the form of pictures that seemed to flow towards me and as 
each in turn washed over me I knew them in their entirety. The answers were those already 
known to me but were now all arranged in such a matter as to be all linked, ordered, and added 
so that their sum was much greater than their fragmented parts. This was in the Winter of 1982. 
The closest I can come to describing the experience is by relating it to the story of the little girl 
sitting at her grandmothers feet watching her do needle point and thinking what an awful mess, 
but when seeing after lifted up to her grandmothers lap what a thing of beauty. I wanted to write a 
book because I felt I had such a clear understanding of how things really were. I was told by the 
Spirit it had been given me to live not write about. Three years later I was having difficulty in my 
Spiritual Life do to my isolation from any source other than my own inner guide. I found plenty of 
opportunities to serve and remain humble, but no real sources to fill, rejuvenate, and grow. I 
asked for more and received The Urantia Book. I ate it up reading it from cover to cover in three 
months. Again the Spirit was with me every step of the way, highlighting the truths to be found 
amongst a ton of purported facts that I can not say I found enlightening. At one point I recall 
asking my Spirit just how many different types of angles I would have to ask permission from and 
how large a group would have to accompany me to take a wiz. I swear I heard the Spirit chuckle. 
After reading the book entirely I sought out others, they meet to read and study the book. Their 
understandings were much different than the ones my Spirit had led me in. In the many times I 
have attempted to become active in the movement to spread it's teachings even among those 
who believe in it I have met rejection. Most of it's readers like to sit around and debate how great 
it is all going to be when we receive our rewards. They have it all intellectually figured out and 
have no real need to live it. I could never get through to them that if you don't do the work of the 
Kingdom you don't get the rewards of the Kingdom. That kind of talk made me unwelcome. 
Having said all of that I feel as though I have finally found the right place for my Spirit to find 
outlet. I feel as though there is only so much progress that can be made if values are not 
exchanged with and augmentated by others. I have read the Immortal book 1 and ordered 1&2 I 
have also began reading the archives starting at the beginning and reading all posts by 
J.J.Dewey. I would appreciate any guidance anyone might have on catching up as I am self-
employed and don't have an unlimited amount of reading time. Please excuse the spelling errors, 
now you know why it wasn't given to me to write about.
   Hope I have finally found a home Dennis

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20191
From: Annabasha1
Subject: Re: Hi
   dear dennis: just logged on this site only today and like you, am in the midst of just finishing 
"the immortal" (#2). as it is seen in this moment, cannot help you out with updating you on these 
dialogues. 
blessings to you on your path -- b

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20192
From: "susan carter" 
Subject: OT Re: Hi
   Welcome Anna and Dennis. Good to have more people join us in our studies with JJ Dewey. (A 
hint Dennis, turn off your HTML). I would suggest you go back to your welcome letters and go to 
some of the suggested URLs to get a feel for what we are all about. JJ currently teaches us 
certain things and asks us questions or gives us hints about what he is trying to convey much like 
John did in the book The Immortal. Currently we are discussing the four faces of evil and you 
might want to go to Samu's archives (referenced in your letters) and look for the newest 2 posts 
by JJ to catch up on the subject. Again welcome to you and other newcomers this week. Susan
   PS When we are commenting about anything other than the topic JJ has introduced we put OT 
in the subject header for OFF TOPIC. 
   Annabasha1@aol.com wrote: "dear dennis: just logged on this site only today and like you,"

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20193
From: "dennis appling" 
Subject: OT Thanks
   I am sorry about the HTML I have never had it do that. I am not much of a writer and less of a 
typer. It should be set to plain text now, I hope.
   I would like to add my thoughts on the subject of good and evil. I would define evil as that which 
is wrong, and to the degree that it is wrong or in error, is to the degree it contains the seed of it's 
own destruction. I believe all error will eventually show it's self and be corrected or be limitated at 
least in reality if not in potentiality.
   I would define good as that which contains values of truth, beauty, and goodness that resonate 
into eternity fallowing the command to become perfect even as God in Heaven is experiencing 
coming into perfection.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20194
From: Travis Tabbal 
Subject: Re: re: The Four Evils
   Judy Reese wrote: "I could not have said it better. Please listen to what Ren is saying here. 
This trend or attitude it starting to rear its head amongst some within this group and the power of 
authority over other's right to service is being infringed. Look at you who are guilty of usurping 
rightful authority. I am sure that the Nazis themselves started out with small infringements and 
then got by with them until they could no longer discern their own evil ways."
   Judes, could you be more specific please? I can't quite figure out what you're referring to here. 
You seem to imply that somehow the group is infringing on your or someone else's right to serve 
others. There are a great many things we are all guilty of, but I have not seen that. Most, if not all, 
of us would applaud service work from any person.
   Let's leave the red herring of Nazism out of this, shall we? If you wish to hold intellectual 
discussions/debates with us, it would serve you well to set an example.
   "In my opinion, the only way to keep the evil aspects to the group mentality from overtaking 
reason is to strive to first and foremost achieve soul-contact within the collective before any [and I 
mean ANY] authority is given to the collective. So..I feel that you have put the cart before the 
horse, JJ..and I am already being shown proof that my assumption is correct."
   In any group there are those who wish to keep everyone "in line". There is some of that here, 
but I think overall the group does well in resisting that impulse. As does JJ. I see him discuss 
things with everyone and I have never seen him tell anyone to go along with it because he says 
so. He will attempt to convince or persuade people, but never have I seen him demand anything.
   Soul Contact is something that I don't believe can be taught. It must be sought out and 
experienced by each individual in their own way. If we waited for every member of the group to 
achieve soul contact, with new members joining every day, we would be waiting forever.
   Just what authority do you see as being given to the collective Judes? As a group we ask 
people follow certain guidelines to keep the discussions flowing reasonably and to prevent a 
small minority from disrupting the entire group. This was the policy from the very beginning. I 
remember it because I spoke out in favor of a more active moderation system. The group decided 
to go with a more open policy. As
it effects everyone on the list, it is only right that I accept this. Since Rick decided to leave it to the 
members at that time. Has that violated my freedom in some way? I don't think so. I could leave 
and start my own list if I wanted to. I choose not to. I don't see it being useful at this time. But 
nobody is forcing me to be here.
   While much of what we do is imperfect, I think we have done well here overall. The policies are 
fair and even handed in my view. Even though they were just recently written, they are only what 
was always said before. We just wrote them down all in one place.
   Help us understand what you mean Judes. Some of us do really want to.
Travis

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20195
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: re: The Four Evils
   Judy Reese wrote: "Look at you who are guilty of usurping rightful authority." 
Judy,
   What is your definition of 'rightful authority?'
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20196
From: Annabasha1
Subject: Re: OT Thanks
   for me, what exists in all is inherently good and by what one has had imitated to one creates 
what one may call evil -- one does not need to act this out and if one has been able to inherently 
know and check within then what is known that is not for the advancement of ones soul has no 
charge and is dismissed -- good and evil exist simultaneously and we all choose. everything is for 
purposeful good. we are all gods having a human experience.

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20197
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Hi
   Dennis appling wrote: "I would like to introduce myself to you all. My name is Dennis, Hope I 
have finally found a home"
Dennis
   Welcome to the Keys Of Knowledge List, Dennis. Your odyssey is a lot like others' here.
   It's quite a task to read through the archives here. JJ's teachings have been quite extensive 
these past couple of years. I love his books and look forward to learning as much as I can from 
him.
Diane 
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20198
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: Hi
   Annabasha1 wrote: "dear dennis: just logged on this site only today and like you, am in the 
midst of just finishing "the immortal" (#2). as it is seen in this moment, cannot help you out with 
updating you on these dialogues."
   Welcome to the Keys Of Knowledge List, Anna. I hope you enjoy it as much as I and others 
have. JJ's teachings are quite extensive in the archives. I've begun re-reading The Immortal as 
someone recently suggested. It's kind of amazing what I find that I may have missed the first 
time.
Diane
-- 
"Oh that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
...Robert Browning...

Post-No.: keys-l/2000-12-17/20199
From: Christopher Wynter
Subject: [To JJ Dewey] Evil in High Places
   JJ would you care to comment in the light of some of your discussions on this list and in the 
context of my previous post .. on the subject "Christmas .. as it is celebrated in the Christian 
Tradition is a manifestation of Evil in High Places" in the context that the origins of the present 
celebration is a corruption of the ancient rites of the worshiping of wholeness of all Life which 
utilizes the Pagan Symbolism .. and was instituted by the "Harvester Gatherers" as a method of 
control. and this is the origin of the deep grief experienced by so many at Christmas the deep 
remembering and repression in the unconscious of both the memories of the past lives of the soul 
and in the ancestral core of the DNA .. memories which are being brought close to the surface 
from the nature of the work you are putting forward .. and by the cycles of the seasons to which 
our physical bodies are eternally tuned especially as, this year there will be a different energy 
around the season with the coming solstice being influenced by the new moon and the eclipse on 
the day set down by the Roman Church for this celebration
CW