2000 - WEEK 12 Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13231 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire Rick: "So, by referring to the definitions and etymology quoted above, the statement that "God desired" confronts us with the dichotomy of the "God" we see as perfection and completeness having a longing for a completeness because "He" has the perception that somehow "He" is incomplete." Christopher: You wrote that "when God desired to create the Universe" and I merely questioned as to how God could have a desire .. which by definition of the word desire ... implicates lack of completeness .... and then I asked if God is perfection in his completeness, how can he have desire? Rick: Ah but Chris, Why do you say "we see as perfection"? These are your painful beliefs, not mine. The definitions you gave don't seem to fit either. Christopher: The definition of God as perfection is the definition of the Divine Attribute as quoted from the Canon of the Roman Catholic Church Rick: Must be a language translation thing. Is it hard to translate Tasmanian into English? Christopher: The definitions and Etymology quoted come from The Merriam-Webster Dictionary .. which is, as far as I know American English Rick: It always seems to come across angry. Like you won't be happy until they shoot the Pope. You always seem to be suggesting that we destroy everything, in order to become perfect. Wait, I know, sounds like the kind of thing vegetarians talk of. Ok, you can eat what you want then, but quit telling me what to eat. Christopher: The Fundamentalists of Rome are quite capable of disposing of a Pope .. they have done it before .... The only thing I am suggesting that needs to be embraced in order to become perfect is our notion of our imperfection ... that belief of lack which sees us separate from "Oneness" ... that the "God" "spirituality", "soul" we are seeking is somewhere outside of us. Rick: I was raised Catholic, why do you condemn me for that. Christopher: I did not condemn you ... nor did I condemn Catholicism. I have merely written from an "impersonal I" perspective how the Dogma and Doctrine of this "church" teaches separation from oneness ... and followed the path of the human id and psyche in its sequencing of beliefs and how these beliefs manifest in the body and are accessed under certain key words .. which people react to can have meanings within the body other than those which the mind thinks Rick: Why do you feel that you have to contradict everything that JJ writes? Christopher: Hmmm... I was answering a comment you wrote ... I didn't see JJ's name anywhere in what you wrote. Rick: The ONE, the initiator of ALL, did so out of desire and has an outcome in mind. This ONE is not perfect, if it wants more than what it already had. Christopher: Is there a difference in your mind between "ONE" and "God" ... I'm sorry, I cannot follow the tautology of this statement ... Rick: The God you talk about is the myth that we are trying to dispel. Christopher: The God I talk about is the "ONE" and "THE ALL" the perfection of the "no-thing" ... Atman ... which contains all beyond separation ... as defined within all recorded sacred texts throughout the world from The Vedas forward .. including the writings of the Church of Rome ... This is a myth? There are two "I's" .. the personal and the impersonal ... the "personal I" is an expression of the self, the personality, the id and the ego and has a shadow the is an expression of the Self beyond id and ego ... and has no shadow which creates a "mirror", often causing reaction from the "personal I" The conscious "personal I" needs the answers and asks the question because, for reasons known only to it's unconscious (the id) it does not want to hear what the is re-minding it of ... Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13232 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire that makes even less sense. I think you are just trying to hypnotize people. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13233 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Optimum Diet Question: Many diets are put forward as the optimum or the best possible God-given program. What do you suppose is the best possible overall diet for maximum health benefits? We've had several answers on this, but the answers seem to be directed at what diet is best for an individual at the moment. For instance, having some meat in my diet is a wise choice at present, but I will readily admit I am not on the optimum diet for maximum health of my body. Everything in life is a trade off. For one as busy as myself the wise eating of regularly available foods is much more convenient. Also, I find that a regular diet grounds me for what I want to accomplish at the moment. Nevertheless, there are better diets for health than the one I am on. Let me present to you what I consider to be the best diet for health ever presented. It was originated by Professor Arnold Ehret and called The mucousless Diet healing System. You can read a sort sketch on him and buy his book at: http://www.rawfood.com/ehret.html Or go to Amazon.com at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879040041/o/qid=953408927/sr=8- 1/102-837 5973-1104057 His diet consists entirely of living uncooked foods with emphasis on fruit. After reading his book a number of years ago I decided to try it out and started out on fruit only. This took tremendous discipline for one like myself who grew up on meat and potatoes. After a couple months I began to develop canker sores and concluded that I was getting too many acids and added sprouts and vegetables with emphasis on those growing above the ground. For salad dressing I used apple cider vinegar. Along with the diet I ran every day for about twenty minutes. I ate nothing until noon at which time I ate a large salad that tasted as good as a steak. Then I finished off the day with fruit. I was on this diet for about a year and had the best vitality of my life. Unfortunately my first wife complained daily about me not eating her food and for the sake of the marriage I went back on a regular diet. In many ways I wish I would have held my ground for it took almost a year for the diet to get comfortable and now if I go on it again I will have to start all over with the discipline. From this experience I have concluded the optimum diet does consist in eating living uncooked foods, sprouts with a handful of raw nuts thrown it. This diet is not for anyone. If you have a history of enjoying meat as I did it will require a major decision followed by discipline. If you think you can do it, it will pay off. Actually giving up bread was the most difficult part of the diet for me. The worst part of this diet is when you go out to eat with friends. There is often little or nothing on the menu that you can order - a good dinner salad if you are lucky. Questions: (1) What is the best water to drink? (a) Distilled or reverse osmosis (b) Filtered with the minerals left in. (c) Spring water (d) Tap water Explain the reason for your answer (2) How can fasting be used to improve health? (3) If you are going to eat fruit, vegetables and meat how should you go about consuming them. Should you eat them together or in some type of order or sequence. Explain your answer. Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13234 From: (Rick Audette) Subject: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire To further clarify my position, I backtrack a couple of posts, to where Chris says. "So, by referring to the definitions and etymology quoted above, the statement that "God desired" confronts us with the dichotomy of the "God" we see as perfection and completeness having a longing for a completeness because "He" has the perception that somehow "He" is incomplete." Rick: Yes that's right. Anything that any form of consciousness can conceive of as being God, would fall short of perfection. To say that God IS perfect would be an illusion. Chris: "Who is it then, who has the desire ... is it "God" or is this something that man has attributed to "God" as a means of justifying his existence .. and his incompleteness ... and his notion of needing to be a sacrifice ... because at this point, the etymology of "God" completes the picture (to sacrifice or be a sacrifice to)" Rick: It says, in "The Immortal", that the ONE that initiated ALL, desired to do so and that It has an end in mind. This ONE is higher than anything we know of as God and still IT has desires. Go figure! Chris: "Could I suggest that this calls into question the whole doctrine of (at least) Christianity as it is taken in literal sense according to doctrine, dogma and teachings ...?" Rick: Yes, we do that almost every day on this list. Chris: "What then, is the basis for our "spiritual search", the quest for "God", "enlightenment" and "the Christ" ... if not to fill a hole which mythologically exists somewhere inside us ..." "and trapped in our illusion, we hope to fill that hole with a re-union with what we have defined as an imperfect concept of "God" which we see outside of us ..." Rick: It's not a hole, it's a bump on our soul, that we got from the source. The bump is an ideal of perfection that can only be reached at infinity. Chris: "Why is it that when we chase rainbows, we never can find the pot of gold?" Rick: We seek perfection, but can never get all the way there, because it is infinite. We are Eternal, but infinity is always an infinite distance away from us. We can be One with All that seek perfection, but can only BE perfect by not being at all. It's all just a thrilling game we play, called becoming. The pot of gold is the chase, not what comes at the end. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13235 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire You two boys seem to be feeding off of something other than love, here. I've tried to follow what it is you're talking about and don't even want to go there. Honestly, you sound like two young boys(about five years old) arguing about what sex is. Better that you'd both go home, in the privacy of your bedrooms, jerk off, and get on to the next subject. And I expect the same advice from you guys when I'm obsessing. Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13236 From: "Cynthia Gear" Subject: Re: The Optimum Diet In Sri Yukteswar's only book The Holy Science (he was Yogananda's teacher) he addresses the subject of the most natural diet for man. His conclusion appears to support J.J.'s. He bases it on a number of things including the observation of the teeth and the digestive canals in man vs. carnivorous, herbivorous, and frugivorous animals. He goes into quite a lengthy dissertation about it but, in summary, he observes that the formation of the teeth in man resembles, exactly, those of the frugivorous or primarily fruit-eating animals. The reasonable inference is that man is naturally frugivorous. Regarding the observation of the digestive canal he says that in carnivorous animals the bowels are 3-5 times the length of their bodies, measuring from mouth to anus, and their stomachs are almost spherical. The bowels of the herbivorous creatures are 20-28 times the length of their bodies and their stomachs are more extended and of compound build. But the bowels of the frugivorous animals are 10-12 times the length of their bodies (again measuring from mouth to anus and not from crown to soles) and their stomachs are somewhat broader than that of the carnivorous and have a continuation in the duodenum serving the purpose of a second stomach which is exactly the formation found in humans. Thus he again draws the inference that man is, in all probability, naturally a fruit-eating animal. (It is also noted that the fruitarian diet he refers to includes vegetables, nuts, and grains but this is a publisher's note and not his own.) Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13237 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Optimum diet! From the Sketch of Ehret's diet: Later he developed his system of RATIONAL FASTING. Tens of thousands of patients were taught these methods of regaining health in what he called his "Fruit Fasting" Sanitarium in Switzerland. Judes: When I mentioned that I eat VERY little yesterday...I meant that I have been fasting [not planned but due to lack of appetite sometimes]..and through this involuntary fasting ..I did notice some gained control over feeling that I have to eat all the time..and more awareness of my energy levels and what really affects them. Like I said before..the Song seems to be revitalizing and rejuvenating [for me] similar to eating. So..by attempting [successfully] to add the raw foods like fruits and nuts over the last few days I have noticed that my energy has been sustained and was actually surprised but inspired..because cooking takes up so much time. So how liberating to know that eating fruits and nuts and salads could sustain energy and save so much time. So this article by you JJ and the information is giving me confidence that there will be more health benefits involved too. I was VERY surprised that Caeli responded so well..but then of course, children LOVE fruits and whole carrots..etc. So the added benefit of less meal preparation and time spent adding to the flavour and balance of the meals will be very rejuvenating too. AND I have noticed my appetite improving..which is good for me as I am too thin as I said...and have always had to WORK at eating enough calories to maintain my body weight. And to JJ and others..I have done this diet many years ago and it is optimum. And JJ..if you want to go back on it..try fasting for 1-2 days drinking water only and then you will be SO HUNGRY that the fruits/nuts..and salads will seem like nirvana. LOL I pick spring water as the choice of waters because it is more living! Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13238 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: re: Optimum Diet: Sequence JJ wrote: 3) If you are going to eat fruit, vegetables and meat how should you go about consuming them. Should you eat them together or in some type of order or sequence. Judes: 1.) a.m- fruits/nuts/berries.....whole grain cereals/butter/honey 2.) Noon- Salads w/lemon juice or olive oil/apple-cider vinegar...leafy greens..vegetables[raw]..broccoli, cauliflower, sprouts,mushrooms, tomatoes, carrots 3.) Eve: Vegetable lightly steamed with butter [my choice]..yum yum:butter, meats [if choose] 4) Snacks..apples, nuts, raw veggies.....[boiled eggs or cheese?] 5.) protien drinks [raw eggs added?]..and fresh juiced vegetable or fruit drinks...nut milks 6.) 8-12 glasses of spring water daily Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13239 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire "Rick: It says, in "The Immortal", that the ONE that initiated ALL, desired to do so and that It has an end in mind. This ONE is higher than anything we know of as God and still IT has desires. Go figure!" All we think and say about God cannot but be a kind of anthropomorphism. Here lies the limitation of the reversed version of as above so below, i.e., 'as below so above'. We cannot attribute all our characteristics to God. We can only do it to a certain extent. To say God desires or has an end the way we do is to set limits to God by the limits mankind is confined to. If the words desire and end or any other word for that matter were modified to suit the level of God these could, for our understanding of God, be used on him. If one didn't care how their audience would react to the words they used it would be their choice. But would they really not mind whether their audience was guided in the wrong direction? Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13240 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: [Rick] Illusion and Desire In the beginning there was desire, which was the first seed of mind: sages, having meditated in their hearts, have discovered by their wisdom the connection of the existent with the non-existent. The Hymn of Creation, The Rig Veda You are what your deep, driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is, so is your destiny. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5 For thousands of years the Sages, and Rishi have taught their students to contemplate the first thought of God. They would contemplate this question and then enter a state of Empty Mind, or Emptiness. Having sent the question into the void of the Cosmic Womb before hand, they in this state of Emptiness awaited the first thought of God. This has been expressed in many ways, over time. I can only express it in my own. "Its experiencing Life as a Mystical Voyage of Self Discovery, into an Infinite Ocean of Possibility, through a myriad of ever changing forms." Like a kid in a candy store, I Desire to taste of everything. Therefore in every case those that have achieved this lofty state have experienced the same thing. Gods first thought (DESIRE) is to experience, grow, and learn through experiencing Life as a Mystical Voyage of Self Discovery, into an Infinite Ocean of Possibility, through a myriad of ever changing forms." Of course this is only my own understanding, and interpretation derived from my own personal experience in life, at this point in time. This may well change tomorrow through a greater understanding since I choose to follow the Desire to Become and emulate the Highest I can conceive off. IMHO Your Friend Always, In Light, Love, and Power John Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13241 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [JWK] Illusion and Desire Hello John ... and what you say is correct ... "you are what your desire is ...." and what Paul Yu says is also correct ... in that, "as above, so below" ... so in only seeing desire, we project that on what we desire ... which is the knowing of our cause .... If we desire to know our cause ... then desire is the focus, the seed put out which will come back to us .... We are what we think .. or as one of my teachers put it once "first you have a thought and then that thought has you" But we can only "manifest" what we can conceive of" .. in other words if we do not know it .. or allow the possibility of something greater than what we consciously know, then what we "seed" is what we experience. Now ... what would happen if we allowed the possibility that there is something beyond our conscious "sphere of belief and knowing" and went into a silence with a "blank mind" .. a mind that had no desire to know a mind that could allow all possibilities to flow ..? In that state, we would not limit our experience with our desire ... and without "having a go" at you, "The Highest I can Conceive of" is, in my perception, a limitation ... Om Tat Sat says it very nicely ... in the Hebrew .. eyah ashah ehah .. I am That .... There are those, in the past, who have moved beyond desire and the limitation of desire and moved into what most consider is "unknowable" ... This area is only "unknowable" because it is far from the possible imaginings of the human mind's conscious remembering ... the expectations we place on ourselves .... But, the unconscious mind does remember ... underneath the layers of conditioned beliefs, there are worlds that can be known because, within us, there is the remembering ... Words are, indeed difficult here ... because this knowing is beyond the limitations of words ... every word must have its definition and its opposite ..... It is possible to move beyond the words, John ... and as we do so .. and come back to this consciousness, the experience can only be translated into words .. the language of our preconceptions ..... To some it may seem that I write to confuse the mine ... and yes, in many ways I do ... because I have found that when the mind has nothing to hold on to because it is being pulled in many directions at the same time ... then there is a "crack" in the shield of past knowledge through which past knowing can filter through ... allowing the expansion. Yes. John, in the beginning of the quest, there was desire ... the desire of Man to understand the beginnings and the purpose .. the desire to move beyond what Man considered limitation ... not only was this desire seen as cause .. but this desire became the limitation ... as you so aptly quoted from the Rig. This is why, to move beyond the knowable, I use as my personal focus that space between the in-breath and the out-breath .... and its reflection, the space between the out-breath and the in- breath. It is here, as the sages of the past also remind us, that we find the "gap in the ego" Thank you for what you wrote .... Christopher Wynter "In the beginning there was desire, which was the first seed of mind: sages, having meditated in their hearts, have discovered by their wisdom the connection of the existent with the non-existent. "The Hymn of Creation, The Rig Veda You are what your deep, driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is, so is your destiny. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5" Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13242 From: J J Dewey Subject: Perfection It's getting a little slow so I guess I'll add an inflammatory comment. Who told you God was perfect? Is He/She/It really perfect or is this just a tradition passed down from astral idealists? If God is perfect why does He create??? Creation changes things. If the universe created by a perfect God was perfect before added creation, then further creation would result in imperfection. If God is perfect then why are you (a creation of God) imperfect? If it is only illusion that you are imperfect then why does a perfect one have an imperfect illusion???? The fact is that in the beginning of this universe God jumped into incarnation with fear and trembling. This is why fear is woven in the fabric of matter itself as DK expresses it. This fear must be met and conquered on many levels. He knew the beginning point and the end goal, but had little idea about the in-between. That is why life is so exciting. Who wants to watch a movie where you know every thing that is going to happen? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13243 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: [JWK] Illusion and Desire Christopher I don't really think we have any disagreement here. If it appears that way it is solely semantics, which is the true basis of most philosophical debates, especially on this list. I have spent many hours in the void at a time. Yes it is true that there is no Desire at that point, there is nothing but pure still potential. I find this a very refreshing experience and have actually had difficulty snapping out of it. I've spent hours afterwards with absolutely no verbal thought ever entering my mind, everything about me functioning from a purely autonomic level. I guess what I'm saying is it's an incredible and revelatory experience, a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to spend Eternity there. This is really the only issue I take with this line of thought. People seem to think that once they have extinguished the flame, they live in some Heavenly world for eternity. I see it only as having extinguished the flame in respect to its ability to hold, control, and dictate to us. The Illusion can no longer master us, because we have mastered it. Having achieved this point there is very little chance of one falling for any type of Illusion. So in conclusion the only problem I have with this Philosophy is with those that seek to just BE rather than Become. My limited understanding of what they are say is something like this for example, and it makes as much sense to me. "Your suffering is the result of your own desire, so to end all suffering put a pistol in your mouth, and extinguish the cause." I see this as a gross misunderstanding of a Beautiful Principle. The Void leaves me feeling restored, vitalized, invigorated, and ready to return and work for the uplifting of my fellow man, which is truly the only real Desire I have left in Life. At this point the Observer, the Observed, and the Process of Observing are simultaneously one in me. I am John on the outside, I am the unmoving Observer in the Silence deep within, and the mind is the process of Observing. I'll be the first to admit I don't have the eloquence of words to describe this state of Grace. "Voidness........Is......that which stands right in the middle between affirmation and negation, existence and non-existence.....The Void is All Inclusive, having no opposite, there is nothing which it excludes or opposes. It is Living Void, because all forms come out of it, and whoever realizes the Void is filled with Life, and Power, and the....Love of All Beings." Only This - Capital This - Is Anything and everything that appears to us as an individual entity, or phenomenon, whether it be a planet or an atom, a mouse or a man, is but a temporary manifestation of THIS in form; every activity that takes place, whether it be birth or death, loving or eating breakfast, is but a temporary manifestation of THIS in Activity. Each one of us is but a cell, as it were, in the body of the Great Self, a cell that comes into being, performs its functions, and passes away, transformed into another manifestation. Though we have temporary individuality, that temporary limited individuality is not either a true self or our True Self. Our true self is the Great Self; our true body is the Body of Reality. In Light, Love, and Power Your Friend Always, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13244 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: Perfection Hello JJ .. can I add a little more irritation to your inflammation ... *** Man through Tradition and Spirituality created an image of God as perfection something to be sought after ... a state to be desired .... *** in order to trap the ego into 'less than" and "inadequate" and "victim" *** and then Man started to forget his origins .. so there became those who desired power through knowledge .... *** so these invented an astral spirituality to elevate their own self esteem by further separating man from his own remembering .. and creating a dependence of the "lower order" on the priest, guru, teacher ... *** and then these same priests, guru's and teachers invented (discovered) Universal Laws which only they understood .. to keep those of "lesser karma" in their "rightful place" .... *** and so was invented the concept of beginning and end and with that all other opposites .... *** Perhaps the Hindu concept of the Triune Godhead is not so far off the mark where they define the absolute as having three faces .. *** The Creator, The Destroyer, and The Sustainer *** the continuum of be-ing-ness in all its facets ... *** A single facet does not a diamond make .... Christopher Wynter Hobart Tasmania Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13245 From: Diane Linen Subject: (OT) God's Eye In The Sky http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960209.html Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13246 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: [JWK] Illusion and Desire Hi everyone, Desire is the experienced and perceived (in humans only) driving force for possessing what is attractive but lacking. We usually speak of human desire when talking about spirituality. Desire has so deeply been rooted in human psyche that mankind in general has been attached in various degrees to all sorts of things material and even spiritual after they first embarked in a spiritual path. They suffer because of their attachments ultimately, for nothing concretized or particularized can truly satisfy their unquenchable desire. Esoterically, desire is love as well as will in manifestation. It is an expression of the one energy of life ever flowing through all forms of life. If not for desire life forms would wither and die instantly. Yet, when not realized as expression of will-love energy desire would be applied to different things as separate without being able to get to the one source of them all. That is why we who are attached to things suffer in the first place. When perceived as separate from will-love desire is illusory. God cannot desire and be considered to live in illusion since God is one source of life forms as well as various forces therein. Thus one need to qualify the word desire when applying it to God so as not to causing any confusion. It might be OK to use the word loosely to people who don't think for themselves. But it would be misleading, to say the least, when addressing more sophisticated minds, especially if the real meaning of desire is at stake. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13247 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [JWK] Illusion and Desire .. 1 aaah yes .. John ... sometimes in the impetus of the moment, we get trapped in the limitations of our perceptions forgetting that the answer and a fresh new exciting possibility of exploration lies within the letting go of this moment by being able to return to the Void for refreshment. Being is not, to me, living in the void ... but remembering that the void lies between everything I give and everything I receive .. everything I receive and everything I give .. Being to me is a continual process of empty, full, empty, full .. and each moment is full of potential .... But this is only possible if empty is really empty and full is really full ... If I hold on to anything between the breaths, I cannot be fully refreshed ... If I hold onto the void itself, then I can only experience full or empty ... so to me, being is the continuum of "the Breath" ... the continual interchange of everything I am with everything that is.... Judgment of the rightness or wrongness of the experience causes an attachment .... It is this attachment which causes empty not to be fully empty, limits how much more we can receive ... creates desire ... and so it goes on ... It is fascinating, as an adult, to look at the world through the wide eyed innocence of a child ... at one moment's perception of the body of reality one facet of the jewel How many times every minute do we have the reminder of that process available to us in the breath ..? Christopher Wynter you wrote: "Christopher I don't really think we have any disagreement here. If it appears that way it is solely semantics, which is the true basis of most philosophical debates, especially on this list." Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13248 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Quote on Molecular Relationship in Humans OUR BODIES "Take our own bodies. I believe they are composed of myriads o infinitesimally small individuals, each in itself a unit of life, and that these units work in squads - or swarms, as I prefer to call them - and that these infinitesimally small units live forever. When we 'die' these swarms of units, like a swarm of bees, so to speak, betake themselves elsewhere, and go on functioning in some other form of environment." ~Thomas Edison ~ The Diary and Sundry Observations -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Doctrines and theories are best for weaker moments. In moments of strength, problems are solved intuitively, as if by themselves. - Johannes Itten Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13249 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Perfection JJ wrote: "It's getting a little slow so I guess I'll add an inflammatory comment. "Who told you God was perfect? Is He/She/It really perfect or is this just a tradition passed down from astral idealists? "If God is perfect why does He create??? Creation changes things. If the universe created by a perfect God was perfect before added creation, then further creation would result in imperfection. "If God is perfect then why are you (a creation of God) imperfect? "If it is only illusion that you are imperfect then why does a perfect one have an imperfect illusion????" Imperfection is that in which what is not supposed to be lacking is missing whereas perfection is that in which what is supposed to be present is there. Imperfection is always found where parts of a whole are considered as separate wholes while still depending on each other to make a whole. Each of the parts then necessarily lack other parts to be whole and perfect. If a part was considered as a whole in its own right it would be as perfect as the whole of which it is a part is perfect. A whole is perfect because it is whole not lacking what is supposed to be the present to constitute the whole. Everything can then be seen as perfect as well as imperfect depending on where it is looked at from. If you saw things as separate wholes which didn't come together to make up a bigger whole you couldn't see but imperfection; if however you saw things as unseparated wholes yet at the same time ever making bigger wholes on higher levels you wouldn't see but perfection. Of course we are talking about relative perfection since we could not even conceive what absolute perfection would be like. Perfection is where harmony is; where harmony is there is oneness. Conversely, if there is oneness there should be harmony; if there is harmony there should be balance; if there is balance there should be unseparated duality. It doesn't matter here for the sake of argument whether the duality is separate or not. In fact the duality in our experiences is separate. Even in this case we could neutralize the separate duality into balance. If the process of evolution is an unbroken continuum all the imperfections we experience could not escape the uninterrupted stream of evolution to become separate pieces and imperfect. All the seemingly scattered pieces would eventually be seen as a balanced, harmonized and at-one- ed whole, perfect, in other words. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13250 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: From The Gap Just about everybody has heard the saying 'The Lull before the storm'. Everywhere in nature there is a pause in the flow, a pause in the cycle. Some pauses are long, some are short. Next time you go to the beach, watch the waves. Watch the waves as they come in, and as they go out. Notice that there is a space, a pause, a gap when the waves are neither coming in, nor going out. Are there still waves? Are there any highs or lows? The water is still there, life is still there, but there is no emotion. Underneath the waves, the water is still there, but it is relatively still. Only when you go beneath the waves can you find the deeper currents that are moving the water. Even in our own breathing, we pause between the in breath and the out breath. There is a gap. In that gap. If we can catch hold of it, if we can place our awareness in this gap, there is the still small voice within, the higher consciousness aspect of us. It is the gap in the ego. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the nature of Life. Sometimes words of wisdom may come from a source that the logical mind may not understand. Sometimes the phone may ring, and you know who it is, even before you answer. If you will but stop and count, you will find many instances where things happen that the logical mind does not understand, that you can find no logical explanation for. All of these come from the gap in the ego, that space where the mind stops for a moment, and a greater mind steps in. Everybody has access. Every person reading this article could, if they looked, find times where words, thoughts, a knowing, have come into their lives in a way that could not be 'explained'. It is from this gap that all genius is found. It is by tuning into this gap that all knowledge and wisdom is found. It is in this gap that the answer to the most perplexing questions have been located. If one reads the stories of some of the worlds great inventive minds, one will find that answers came 'as if from a dream'. Mozart went for a walk in the bush to return and develop the harmonies that came into his head. Einstein dreamed the law of relativity. The light bulb came out of that gap. And yet, others who tuned into the gap, like Tesla, were considered mad. So judged society, because the unexplained went against religion, created fear. Everybody, you, me, has access to this wealth of information. No one person is brighter than any other. No one person has any more intelligence, or any more brains than any other. The only difference between the so-called great minds and the rest of society, is that they knew how to use more of what they had from birth, they knew how to go into the gap to get in touch with what is freely available to all. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13251 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Perfection *** You cannot look to Me, for I would not have it so. You can look to your own Dignity of Self. *** Beyond space, beyond time, I come to you, Far distant in your perception is the origin of My Being, yet of You, I AM part. Of your history, I know ALL, for I see beyond your planet, your stars, your galaxy, your sky. *** What seems huge to you is but the merest speck to Me, yet I am contained in ALL. I see the colours within a rain drop, the birth of a child, the falling petals of a flower... none passes that I AM not in Consciousness aware of. *** Not often do I have direct speech with Human Kind, for Human Kind would not hear or allow that I exist. I sit on no golden throne. I sit in no hallowed halls unless hallowed halls you see as ALL of creation. For I AM the dirt on which you walk, the rain that falls, the air you breathe, the life you live. *** I AM your first breath. I AM your last breath in all your myriad of lifetimes. I AM The One you call out to in despair, in crisis. In grief you call My Name. Yet I have no singular Name. I AM ALL to ALL. *** Man can become aware of the call of Inner Peace that exists within each, for there is such beauty, such joy existing. *** This can be The Focus. By this Focus shall the world be saved. By this Focus, shall the burden of lives lost in My Name be lifted. By this focus, shall Man find Peace within his own Heart. *** For I AM Lord, I AM God, I AM YHWH, I AM Jehovah. Yet I would have none of these Names, for atrocities have been committed in each of them. All of Man's making, not Mine. *** I have no singular Name with which you can point a finger, for I AM ... ALL .. and yet contained in ALL Christopher Wynter Hobart Tasmania anunda@anunda.com Home Page: http://anunda.com/gateway.htm Discussion list: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/anunda Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13252 From: RWBH Subject: Re: From The Gap Christopher Wynter wrote: "All of these come from the gap in the ego, that space where the mind stops for a moment, and a greater mind steps in." This brings to mind the Gita story of Krsna being present as the invisible Watcher. Behind our one mind lurks...the One Mind. A Mind in who's head? The Godhead, I guess, lol. I like where you are going with this gap. Even in a molecule....there is mostly empty vacuum....the cubic gap. And not meaning to trivialize the discussion...but there's something from the 'gap' in those darn Gap dancing ads....something magical about them.... "he only difference between the so-called great minds and the rest of society, is that they knew how to use more of what they had from birth, they knew how to go into the gap to get in touch with what is freely available to all." Perhaps it is that simple. Yet...it could also be said that paints and brushes were widely available...and Rembrandt and Dali, for example, just knew how to dab it on canvas. I have to wonder: if it's that simple...why are there so few Teslas and Edison and Einsteins etc?? Why do so few apparently "know how to go into the gap"??? Why so little gap dancing, herr Professor????? brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13253 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Perfection JJ wrote: That is why life is so exciting. Who wants to watch a movie where you know every thing that is going to happen? Judes: That is such a neat way of looking at it......Perfect explanation! Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13254 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Perfection Yep, I agree. It is a neat way of looking at it. What does it mean when I like to see *some* movies more than once? ;) Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13255 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: Perfection Yet how many times do you stand in awe, watching the glory of the sun set... even though you know it will rise again in the morning Or watch the buds of Spring time flowers opening as you know they do, every year .... Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13256 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Empty then Full Christopher wrote: Judgment of the rightness or wrongness of the experience causes an attachment .... It is this attachment which causes empty not to be fully empty, limits how much more we can receive ... creates desire ... and so it goes on ... Judes: Right...and then we stay stuck on something beyond its purpose for us. So not 'letting go' is more of the culprit here than our friend 'desire'...if what we 'desired' turns out to be 'bad fruit' for us then we need to not cry over spilled milk..and if the desire produces 'good fruit' then we need to not get attached to the 'fruit' itself..but return to our friend 'desire'..for more goodies. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13257 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: Perfection Well Chris I said I wasn't going to make any more posts today, but here I go again. I agree with you on all accounts below with the exception of one. Taking into consideration what JJ said earlier about when God incarnated, I see the same thing here. I often see the things you note, but they are beginnings and endings, their givens, but who knows the script in between. That's where you get the curve balls, and change ups. If what you say were accurate Home Run King and slugger Mark McQuire who broke Babe Ruth's and Aaron's record would be batting 1000, instead of 300, and Rick wouldn't just be in it for the trill. I know it's the first day of Spring here, and I'll soon be planting my garden, but I have no idea if Mother Nature will bless me with a drought, or my garden will wash away. I never fail to be surprised, but that's what makes it so darn exciting, and I revel in every minute of the experience, and once in the while let an expletive slip, but it's still fun. LOL Your Friend Always, John JJ wrote: "That is why life is so exciting. Who wants to watch a movie where you know every thing that is going to happen?" >Judes: "That is such a neat way of looking at it......Perfect explanation!" "Yet how many times do you stand in awe, watching the glory of the sun set...even though you know it will rise again in the morning "Or watch the buds of Spring time flowers opening as you know they do, every year .... "Christopher Wynter" Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13258 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Fear and Trembling JJ wrote: The fact is that in the beginning of this universe God jumped into incarnation with fear and trembling. Judes: I feel that this fear was due to the 'unknown' factor in what would be the trials and tribulations of enduring the process to the 'end result'. The perfection or synchronism of the cosmos/logos lies in the wisdom behind the mechanics; which is based on universal laws[2 of which JJ has mentioned while I have been on the list] that insure the desired outcome. So..even though 'relative perfection' is the basis and stasis of all that is...the 'unknown' factor to all of this unfoldment can be either exhilarating in its high points and trembling with fear at its low points. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13259 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Attached to the Sunrise: Chris Chris wrote: Yet how many times do you stand in awe, watching the glory of the sun set... even though you know it will rise again in the morning Or watch the buds of Spring time flowers opening as you know they do, every year .... Judes: I know Chris...but we cannot get toooo attached to it though.....Sorry...I couldn't help it...Just kidding you ..Chris. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13260 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Perfection JJ wrote: "That is why life is so exciting. Who wants to watch a movie where you know every thing that is going to happen?" Judes: "That is such a neat way of looking at it......Perfect explanation!" One of the reasons I have had such a colorful life is because life was meant to be exciting! I don't mean to resurrect the old bastard, but Aleister Crowley wasn't wrong when he said: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. Love is the law, love under will." Which one of us is not doing what we want to do? Isn't that our law, to do what we want to do? Perfection is me living my life to its fullest, just as I desire to do. Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-20/13261 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Perfection JJ wrote: "That is why life is so exciting. Who wants to watch a movie where you know every thing that is going to happen?" Judes: "That is such a neat way of looking at it......Perfect explanation!" Diane: "Yep, I agree. It is a neat way of looking at it. What does it mean when I like to see *some* movies more than once? ;)" Diane, I believe it means you found a culdesac that you enjoy living in. Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13262 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Did [keys] You Notice? 220 members for a brief moment! "| The Keys of Knowledge List : 220 members (public)" Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13263 From: J J Dewey Subject: Sunsets Diane: Yep, I agree. It is a neat way of looking at it. What does it mean when I like to see *some* movies more than once? ;) JJ That's what reincarnation is for. You repeat the interesting tings until you lose interest. Chris: Yet how many times do you stand in awe, watching the glory of the sun set ... even though you know it will rise again in the morning Or watch the buds of Spring time flowers opening as you know they do, every year .... JJ But no two sunsets are alike and each spring has a fresh and different look. JWK says: "...once in the while let an expletive slip, but it's still fun. LOL JJ And here I thought you were perfect John, but maybe it was a perfectly timed expletive. Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13264 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Sunsets Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to like you people more and more. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13265 From: Marylin Subject: Re: (OT) God's Eye In The Sky Diane Linen writes: "http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960209.html" Hi Diane I get the same email you do and may I add that this is one awesome thing to see. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13266 From: J J Dewey Subject: Health 101 Questions One (1) What is the best water to drink? (a) Distilled or reverse osmosis (b) Filtered with the minerals left in. (c) Spring water (d) Tap water Some spring waters are very good, but others are questionable. Overall distilled or reverse osmosis is the best for it is the purest water. Many believe that water with high mineral content is goods for you, but long time use can cause arthritis and other problems. The minerals in water are merely ground up rocks and the body has to work hard to eliminate over 90% of them from the body. Definitely avoid tap water with high amounts of chlorine. (2) How can fasting be used to improve health? The body puts tremendous energy into digesting food. When you fast this energy is freed up and the body puts it to use in eliminating poisons from the body. This is the reason you get a headache or feel faint or weak during the first day of a fast. The body is taking that extra energy and using its power to dump unwanted poisons into the bloodstream. After two or three days the elimination process becomes more regulated and the headaches disappear. If you want to know how full of poison you are fast for three days with no solid food. Drink only water or organic juice. Then look at your tongue in the mirror. The more coated it is the more poisons there are in your body. When you can fast for three days and have only a small amount of coating on your tongue this is a sign that your body is clean and in good shape internally. The fasts I recommend are 3, 7 or 10 days. If you have not fasted before start with a three day one. Fasting on water alone is very effective. Another great fast is to drink only purified water with added fresh squeezed lemon, with honey and cayenne pepper added to taste. Maple syrup is a good substitute for honey, but you have to make sure you get it from a good source. Some maple syrups have formaldehyde added as a preservative and with this added it can wind up doing you more harm than good. Apple and grape also are good juices to fast with. Many fasting enthusiast recommend enemas during the fast. I've always had an aversion to enemas myself and have worked out a natural plan just as good. Fast for the first day on only water or lemon juice and then during the second day drink a good quantity of grape, cherry or prune juice. Actually cherry juice is the most potent. If you do this you will naturally eliminate everything possible that left in you. Your bowels should be pretty clean for the rest of the fast. If you have hypoglycemia you may have difficulty in fasting and become ill and faint. If this is your situation the best thing to do is to go on a modified fast. You can go on a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables for 10-20 days with just enough protein added to keep you feeling well. You'll have to experiment on what works for you as a modified fast. If you do work out a partial fasting program you'll have to figure going on it for about twice the length to achieve the same benefit as a more complete fast. I usually fast twice a year for a week each on water or juice. If I'm feeling out of sorts or low on energy and do not know the cause I'll go on a fast. After the fast I often feel quite rejuvenated. Breaking the fast is as important as the fast itself. The first day after a fast you should eat only fruit and salad vegetables. Then the day after you can eat pretty normally, buy do not overeat. It is dangerous to stuff yourself after a fast. My friend Wayne fasted for twelve days once on water and broke it with a hamburger and milkshake. That could have made a lesser man deathly ill but it didn't seem to bother him. I gave him quite a lecture on it. A good book on fasting in addition to Arnold Ehret was written by Paul Braag. This and some other of his interesting books are at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-8375973-1104057 (3) If you are going to eat fruit, vegetables and meat how should you go about consuming them. Should you eat them together or in some type of order or sequence. Overall it is good to eat fruit and light foods early in the day and the heavier foods near the evening, but the big mistake people make is the order of eating within a single meal. It is a big mistake to eat fruit deserts after a heavy meal for instance. As food enters your stomach it settles in layers. Meat may take eight or more hours to digest whereas fruit may take less than a hour. If fruit goes on top of a layer of meat then it stays there and putrefies. This wrong order of eating and consequent putrefaction is the cause of much of the gas and heartburn people have. If you eat fruit it should be eaten on an empty stomach. If you eat a salad with your meal eat it first. Do not eat it with meat and other heavy foods. Do not mix ham or other meats with your salad. By eating only vegetables and fruit first this gives your digestive system the opportunity to immediately begin to digest them and then later give full attention to the heavier foods to come. Another universally accepted health activity is exercise. What are your ideas in using exercise to increase the quality of health? There is a great health drawback to exercise that is often overlooked. Can you tell us what it is? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13267 From: Liam Finghin Subject: [OT] Law of Correspondences Can anyone point me to a particular post where the "Law of Correspondences" is explicitly and clearly stated? I see much reference to it in the archives, but I have yet to find an explicit statement of it. Thanks! lf Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13268 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Sunsets J J Dewey wrote: "That's what reincarnation is for. You repeat the interesting things until you lose interest." That's just as I suspected. I *do* love those sunsets and sunrises too. Chris: "Yet how many times do you stand in awe, watching the glory of the sun set ... even though you know it will rise again in the morning Or watch the buds of Spring time flowers opening as you know they do, every year...." JJ "But no two sunsets are alike and each spring has a fresh and different look." Ahh yes, the bluebonnets have been out for several weeks now. I love spring flowers. JWK says: "...once in the while let an expletive slip, but it's still fun. LOL" JJ "And here I thought you were perfect John, but maybe it was a perfectly timed expletive." Timing is everything or so they say JJ. ;) Especially in comedy. Jack Benny was a master in drawing out a comedic moment in his act. LOve to all, Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13269 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Perfection Craig Tholson wrote: "Diane: "Yep, I agree. It is a neat way of looking at it. What does it mean when I like to see *some* movies more than once? ;)" "Diane, I believe it means you found a culdesac that you enjoy living in." I love how your mind works Craig. And when I get tired of going round and round in the culdesac, I can swing on out of here. love, Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13270 From: (Rick Audette) Subject: Re: [OT] Law of Correspondences As above, so below. Posts #'s 426,544,363,277,340,181,789,629,81 at Samu's archives of JJ's posts Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13271 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Health 101 "A good book on fasting in addition to Arnnold Ehret was written by Pau Braag. This and some other of his interesting books are at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-8375973-1104057" JJ, I was just adding your latest post to the Archives and noticed the above link wasn't working... Those Amazon url's always so long, maybe there's something missing at the end of it? Love, Samu chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13272 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Health 101 I wrote: "JJ, I was just adding your latest post to the Archives and noticed the above link wasn't working... Those Amazon url's always so long, maybe there's something missing at the end of it?" ~B already sent me the correct link and I placed that on the page in the Archives, thank you ~B- dude sir!!! ;) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0877900361/o/qid=953655831/sr=2-1/002 -4976656-1346663 Samu chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13273 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: (OT) Another Hot Topic! I don't usually subscribe to passing this type of thing on. I'm not an Activist these days, I leave that to my much younger friend, and colleague Laura (Black Leather Rain). I read this several times and although I do not agree with the mixing of Church and State, I found many thing in this that struck a deep cord within me. It also lends credibility to my opinion about what to do with the family Idiot. Put them in Politics! LOL Your Friend, John How beautiful! How sad! How true!!!!!Subject: Fw: Darell Scott's speech in DC (Father of Columbine HS victim)(unpublicized by mainstream media) On Thursday, May 27, 1999, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's sub-committee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent." "I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:" *** Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. *** Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" *** You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need! *** "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs-politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws." Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!" "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School, prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA-I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" Be courageous enough to do what the media did not-let the nation hear this mans speech. Please send this out to everyone you can!!! Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13274 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: (OT) Another Hot Topic! John Wayne Kline wrote: "I don't usually subscribe to passing this type of thing on. I'm not an Activist these days, I leave that to my much younger friend, and colleague Laura (Black Leather Rain). I read this several times and although I do not agree with the mixing of Church and State, I found many thing in this that struck a deep cord within me. It also lends credibility to my opinion about what to do with the family Idiot. Put them in Politics! LOL" Ahh... this I can respond on. I think the problem is that everyone sees this issue as black and white. You either ban all prayer or force everyone to pray. WHY??? Why not just allow those who wish to do so, do so. ;) Why not allow whatever groups want to get together and pray to pray? How is it hurting anyone? On the flip side, "School prayer" is a bad thing in a public school. If it is coerced or done in an official capacity I have a problem with it. This is where issues like "Who's religious beliefs are espoused?" come up. Questions like which God they are praying to.. The answer is simple, and it's written very well in the 1st amendment. Allow people to express themselves, and their religious beliefs in whatever way they wish. As long as nobody is harmed by it and nobody is forced to participate. If the schools or the public want to provide a time for prayer, why not have a few minutes set aside for 'contemplation' or something? Those who want to pray, can. Those who prefer meditation, can.. and those who just want to sit there and stare at the wall, can. It's hard to make everyone happy in any instance. But why restrict anyone? Since you can't please everyone, I prefer to err on the side of freedom. That is an interesting little passage though.. I saw it a while back when the whole thing was still a huge news item. Travis Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-21/13275 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: The Dark Night of the Soul Few are probably aware of it, but as of late we have had a number of people on both the list and forum sailing through some terrible storms. This is as common of an occurrence, and as predictable to any Mystic on the Path, as the Sun rising in the morning. As soon as a person begins to break free of their conditioning or Rings Pass Not, it would seem that Hell itself rears its ugly head and try's its best to strike them down. Many fall backwards for a time, until they again gain sufficient strength to make another attempt. I have seen this repeat itself time, and time again on the forum, and hope the following article will strike a chord with those that are at this point now, or soon will be. This article deals most specifically with the second phase of the Obscure Night, rather than the first, but it can be of help to those passing through either phase. It's a transmutation, and birthing process, and can result in the most excruciating pain imaginable. The Dark Night of the Soul While you are dwelling in the Obscure Night, waiting for the development of certain conditions and manifestations and determining just what your individual effort is for the future, there are certain little helps that I can give you in a veiled way. These were given to the mystics in ancient times while they dwelt in the period of the Obscure Night. They came together each morning at sunrise for their usual salutations and prayers. Before retiring to the privacy of their cells to spend their time in meditation and contemplation, the Guardian stood before them and read certain texts or proverbs. These were brief paragraphs or sentences, each one a great fundamental truth, law, or principle veiled in the briefest words. They could take these brief thoughts with them to their cells to be used as keys to meditate upon during the day. One of the manifestations that will come to you sooner or later, perhaps during the Obscure Night, will be the keen realization of several words, or one word of several syllables, that will seem to be impressed upon you in a strange way. First, let me tell you that this word of group of words will constitute what the ancient mystics called the inner word. In the Christian doctrines it is referred to as The Word. Emphasis is given to the fact that all persons studying spiritual laws eventually come to believe that in the beginning of all creation there was one great word called The Word . This is the so-called lost word. It is not the lost word, however, that will come to you during your development, but a word that will be important to you throughout your life and probably of little value to anyone else. If I were to speak from my own experience and judgment, I would call this the thought rather than the word, or the inner thought instead of the inner word, because this inner word may be just one word of several words, but in every case, the word or words will constitute a single thought. Of course, it is possible for one word to convey a thought to the mind of another which would take a number of words to explain. Take the one word love for instance. It is easy enough to express the idea with one word, so far as conveying the thought to another is concerned, but the moment one attempts to analyze the thought, a great many more words than one are necessary even to outline the nature and effect of love. This is the Ancient Process of enfolding, and unfolding I have often made mention of. Each highly-evolved being on the path who has participated in the Chymical Marriage, will have this word or thought as the secret key to their inner consciousness. I cannot tell you much about it at the present time, because even what I have said in the few lines above is apt to create suggestions or ideas in your mind that may influence the coming of the word, or cause you to create one artificially. I hope, therefore, that none of you will allow your minds to concentrate upon the word love or any other word arbitrarily selected by you, and unconsciously foster or force a selected word upon yourself. This would blot out the real word or group of words that should come from the Cosmic. Since it is too easy to deceive ourselves in this regard, I hesitate to explain very much about it. It is as though you were being led into a great garden of many flowers and told that you were to select one of them which was to be the key to your life. Then suppose you were told that the right selection of this flower would come as Cosmic urge and that you were to sit in the midst of the flower until you had as inspiration and a conviction as to which flower was to be selected. If nothing more were told to you about it, you probably would depend solely upon a Cosmic impulse, or Soul contact. But if I went on to explain to you that the flower was of a certain color and grew to a certain height on a bush, merely to illustrate to you what I mean by selecting a flower, the chances are that my words might cause you to look for a bush or flower nearly like the one I had described. Unconsciously you might select that one instead of listening to the impulse of your Soul. However, I may tell you the following facts, taken from the oldest of the Rosicrucian manuscripts, without unduly influencing you. The inner word or thought is as expression of the Divine Self in each one of us. In fact, the early mystics of the Christian era claim that it is the voice of the prophet spoken in our own beings. The outstanding fact about this is that the word or thought becomes an infallible guide, incapable of error. Please read that sentence again. The thought or word is for you, and you alone. You might meet, sometime in your lifetime, one or two persons who have received the same or a similar word or thought, but it is more than likely that you will get through life without ever having found another with the same thought or word. Of course, you will not give this word to anyone else except a person whom you know to have passed through the same stages of development as yourself, and who also has received a word. The exchange of words with such persons can so no harm inasmuch as once the true word has been given to a person, or been realized, nothing said by anyone else can ever change it for you. In other words, if you have listened carefully and heard the proper word or thought, the fact that someone else has a different one, or a word that has meant more to him than your word seems to mean to you, will never cause you to look for a new word in exchange for the one you have. Once you have properly realized it, you will know that your word is yours and that there could never be another one to take its place. I have said that it would become a guide for you. I mean by this that this word will be much like a magic power of some kind, not because it really deals with magic, but because you will realize its power and significance. You will obey it and listen to it as though it was some magic power that influenced you. You will know that this word or group of words, spoken softly when you are alone in silence, immediately will attune you with the Cosmic and bring you into intimate contact with one of the great Masters of the Cosmic. You will discover that the word will protect you from harm, relieve illness, and change conditions and vibrations. It will do many other startling things for you, not merely through the vibrations of its sound but because it will immediately bring you under the protection and guidance of one of the great Masters. It is of value to know, however, that the Guardian always warned his pupils that others in the past occasionally had disobeyed the word or ignored it. In such circumstances, they had quickly learned that such an act brought them grief and sorrow. Of course, we are all human and the human element in us is very apt to cause us to feel at times that our own reasoning is superior to any other thoughts that may come from the outside or the inside. IN OTHER WORDS, THE VOICE OF THE TEMPTER often tries to make us ignore the inner word and listen to our own reasoning. In such cases we inevitably fail, thereby learning a great lesson. You will judge from what I have said here that this inner word or thought will come to you at times when you are in doubt or when you need the still small voice to guide you. I am not going to tell you, however, how, when, or where the word will suddenly manifest itself to you when you most need it. This, you must learn from experience. We have as excellent example, in the very old mystical stories of Moses in the Christian Bible, of a person who at times disobeyed the Divine Voice and paid no attention to the inner word. Perhaps you have never realized that the story of Moses is more allegorical and symbolical than a truthful presentation of facts. It is one of the most veiled stories that the Bible contains. At times it would seem that Moses was not one person but several persons. Yet if we keep in mind the fact that Moses simply symbolized the one who had been initiated, swaying back and forth between earthly temptation and Divine urge, we will realize that we are not reading the story of one man but of a character that represented many men or many personalities. The one outstanding lesson that we get from the story of Moses is the Beautiful, mystical fact that, while a man is both spiritual and physical and can have in him the Divine Voice, ready and willing to urge him and advise him, God has ordained that man shall have free will and shall hear the temptation of the world as well as the advise of the inner consciousness. He has the privilege of choosing as he pleases. This leads me to point where I may safely and confidentially comment on one of the ancient Rosicrucian laws. We have refrained from using it in any of the lower Degrees because it is so apt to be misunderstood. That law is this: " Do what thou wilt, is the whole of the law: love is the law: love under will." The first part of that law is the most significant. "Do what thou wilt, is the whole of the law." That does not mean you can do as you please and that there is no other law except that permitting you to go through life and do anything and everything you desire. You would see at once that such a principle would not be law at all. The key to the law lies in the word will. This command to do the things you will to do means to do the things that you have reasoned upon, examined, analyzed, and finally agreed upon, with the understanding that you will assume all the responsibility for your act and bear all of the Karma that results therefrom. You see, therefore, that the law is very much like the other one expressed in our teachings, "If you dare to do, you will have the power to do." After you have had the inner word given to you and have become acquainted with the signal or impulse from the Self Within which tells you when you are right or wrong in your planning, then if you will to do anything, that shall be the law unto you. Of course, I am veiling my words. You must analyze every word and thought in the foregoing sentences and meditate upon them in order to arrive at the sublime, transcendental truths contained in them. there are two sources of will in the universe. One is the will of God; the other is the will of man. Let all of your actions be according to will. That is the whole of the law. You must do either the will of God or your own will, for there is no other law but this. I now will quote a very beautiful passage that is an outstanding gem of thought in the oldest Rosicrucian writings. It deals exclusively with this subject of the inner word and attempts to make you feel and realize the sound and nature of the word. Just listen to this beautiful expression: " The lingual powers of nature are to the inner self what the scale of tones in music is to the musician. The letters or vowel sounds of the alphabet are the school for the inner self. Man must let the very spirit of these sounds work upon him until his life's emotions become awakened to the point of infallibility, as the ear of the musician becomes trained in hearing musical sounds with infallibility. In other words, the Inner Self must become so familiar with the intimate powers of the soul of the inner word that God ceases to be something far and strange, and the inner self is able to speak with God as though speaking with the outer self.' There is another beautiful extract which I think I may safely use at the present time. It is from the same manuscript. "God is of the essence of the word, and the essence of the word is expressed in the vowel sounds or letters of the human language. In the beginning, when there were not yet worlds or beings, or creatures, there was naught but seeming space. Space was filled with powers and with the forces of God. These powers had to be organized that they might become constructive, creative, and beneficent. God organized these powers by the sending forth of the word which by the vowels and the essences of their powers controlled the powers of the universe." Still another passage may guide you in your contemplation: "God has given himself unto or into man, and the spirit of man or his consciousness is a part of God. But more than this, through the vowel sounds of his language God has permitted man the privilege and capacity of calling the spirit powers of the universe and of thus becoming identified with them and bringing his ego into contact and attunement with God." There is much more that I can tell you after you have found your word, but I dare not say more at present. It is inevitable that, at various points in the Path, your teacher must leave you alone to meditate and contemplate. It may be that at such times your heart and soul will cry aloud for one word of instruction or one answer to a great problem, but the Master must remain silent. The answer must come from within. Thus it is with each one of you. You must dwell in silence, meditation, and contemplation during your period of the Obscure Night, and wait for the Dawn when the marriage will take place. In the meantime, listen for the inner word. That word may be a familiar one that you have often heard. It may be a sentence composed of two, three, or four short words such as a proverb, a prophetic saying, a law, or a command. I cannot tell what it will be like. It must come to you through your prayers and meditation. Arise, if you can, at sunrise, and before eating or breaking fast, and bathe. Then sit or stand in a position facing the sunrise and search for the word. Scan the horizon where the Sun is rising as though you were seeking the rising of the Son of Man and the Son of God to come forth with the word written on a scroll. Then search yourself inwardly. Listen to every sound that may come to your mind, every word that may come to your thoughts from within. Write down those that seem strongly impressed upon you consciousness, but do not adopt them or accept them unless, after many days of seeking, the same word continues to come to you and pray for the word to reveal itself . Go into contemplation again after breakfast, if you can, as well as at midday, sunset, and before retiring. The most important period of your life is at hand, and every moment that you can give to such contemplation or meditation during the Obscure Night will be worth all of the trouble, time, and denial of pleasures that you can possibly give to this period. Do not ask others what success they are having until you are ready to answer that you have been successful. Then do not discuss this matter with any except those whom you may discover to be in the same position and point of development as yourself. It may be many weeks before you receive the word, or it may be close at hand. I CAN ONLY PRAY for you that it may be soon. In the meantime, I will again send some further thoughts upon which to contemplate. This lesson should be read many times during the coming week, taking a paragraph at a time for contemplation and meditation. Analyze each sentence carefully and make it a part of your very being. May the Cosmic Masters be with you and guide you. In Light, Love, and Power Your Friend, and Brother in the Light, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13276 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: The Dark Night of The Soul Congratulations John on a well written piece ... on a subject which confronts many Western Spiritual seekers. yet is not so prevalent within genetic followers of Eastern philosophy. I am not surprised that the subject has come up here for some The concept of the Dark Night of the Soul stems from a split in the psyche between the id and the ego .. the conscious and the unconscious the body, mind and spirit .... It stems from the notion of emptiness .. and the experience of ignorance when the mind finally realises the experience that knowledge is not the answer and that there are questions within the experience of a person that the teachings do not have an answer for. Fundamentally, it is the manifestation of something I posted a while back of the creation of the monster .. the opposite polarities. If there are two polarities, there is a split, a void, an emptiness which exists between these polarities. Within the human body, this split between past and future male and female, hope and fear, moving forward and being held back by ties to the past exists down the centre line of the body. This is the experience of emptiness and the root of desire ,,,, Physiologically, from the Eastern Physiology, it affects the accupuncture meridians known as the conception meridian and the Governor vessel .. the two major meridians which run up the centre of the spine and down the front of the body. It passes through the centre of the broken heart Branching off this is the Heart Lung Meridian and the Triple Warmer which effect the body temperature, breathing and heart rate. There are many physical symptoms which stem from this split .. and many emotions and feelings can come to the surface. Within my own group I have prepared a set of simple exercises to assist in overcoming this experience .. and heal the split. This can be done in consciousness by accepting the opposing polarities and merging them together into wholeness ... This concept and the approach that I have taken to it from my own experience and the work with my own group and my list are probably off topic and out of line as far as this list and JJ's focus is concerned ... so to be fair to this list .. I am happy to answer personal e-mails .. and provide the exercises with an explanation for those who ask ... If there are requests from members of the list, I am happy to post them here. I do understand the crisis you speak of, John .. I have experienced it myself .. and in addressing it in this manner with my own groups, I have not had any people experience the depth of crisis that is so often written about. Christopher Wynter Hobart Tasmania anunda@anunda.com Home Page: http://anunda.com/gateway.htm Discussion list: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/anunda Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13277 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Health 101 Loving greetings to One and All, J J Dewey writes: "Questions One (1) What is the best water to drink? (a) Distilled or reverse osmosis (b) Filtered with the minerals left in. (c) Spring water (d) Tap water "Some spring waters are very good, but others are questionable. Overall distilled or reverse osmosis is the best for it is the purest water. Many believe that water with high mineral content is goods for you, but long time use can cause arthritis and other problems. The minerals in water are merely ground up rocks and the body has to work hard to eliminate over 90% of them from the body. "Definitely avoid tap water with high amounts of chlorine." Zia: I would not recommend distilled water since there are no minerals whatsoever in it... and one must be SURE to supplement... I have been such a water connioseur for many long years, having lived in the country in Australia with rainwater into tanks, and pumping from underground springs as well. Here in Washington I pump from underground water about 150 feet down, which should be part of the glacier waters from the Nisqually and Mt Rainier. Still spring water can easily have unseen contaminants, and these especially if you have not grown up with that water, can have quite an effect. Also many people drawing from the same source as it travels can affect the water. I now have quite a complex system of filtering on my water here. I use ozonation, followed by quite a tank with many different levels of natural substances such as small garnets... etc for filtering out iron and a few other substances.... then I use a catadyne filtering system in the kitchen that ensures even tiny microbes like giiardia etc are removed for our drinking and cooking water. It has taken a lot of effort to bring the water to a wonderful state... although it is alkaline as well, so we automatically often add lemon for more acidic, since we are all alkaline...... In investigating waters, I found the water in Lourdes, France quite interesting (and drank quite a bit while there) and wondered why it healed so many, as do springs in Japan, and Mexico and a few places in the world. Have discovered that the water from Lourdes is at the molecular level forms a beautiful six pointed star... and that this is the shape of the water in the center of our cells.... which most waters we drink have lost this shape so the water does not reach the nucleus... drinking this water puts the water into the nucleus... and has been touted as the reason we age... because the cells in the body are dehydrating. In Lourdes the water molecule loses its shape within 15 minutes or less depending on temperature. I have found a water although quite expensive that has been reproduced in freezing temperatures and the same mineral make-up as Lourdes. This has quite a rejuvenating effect upon the body... however needing to continue taking it for the rest of one's life is not attractive at the prices. It is called 'clustered water' and I have been a distributor of this water... however I cannot personally say buy this water for the rest of your life... also the noticeable initial and sometimes startling benefits do not continue to increase in my opinion, although understanding that these six pointed clusters do enter the cell structures easily is wonderful. When rich... I would highly recommend. JJ: (2) How can fasting be used to improve health? The body puts tremendous energy into digesting food. When you fast this energy is freed up and the body puts it to use in eliminating poisons from the body. This is the reason you get a headache or feel faint or weak during the first day of a fast. The body is taking that extra energy and using its power to dump unwanted poisons into the bloodstream. After two or three days the elimination process becomes more regulated and the headaches disappear. Zia: This really makes me laugh... I started my straight fruit and nuts and salads diet yesterday... and by evening could feel a headache coming on... and it lasted all night... and ceased early after rising... and here you tell me exactly why I have my headache. Thanks JJ, very timely, I feel great today. We were out repairing our half mile gravel road for a couple of hours... filling buckets, and moving gravel into holes, clipping growth etc... and we did not feel any depletion in energy. Then went to the gravel pit and filled up 10 more buckets with special gravel, shoveling ourselves... then lunch at 2.30 pm... so I can assure the disbelievers that one does not lose their energy but actually gains energy. JJ: If you want to know how full of poison you are fast for three days with no solid food. Drink only water or organic juice. Then look at your tongue in the mirror. The more coated it is the more poisons there are in your body. When you can fast for three days and have only a small amount of coating on your tongue this is a sign that your body is clean and in good shape internally. Zia; The hindus etc. recommend drinking water from a copper cup... and brushing the tongue every morning. I can count on one hand the number of times I have been to the dentist in my life... and we went a couple of months or so ago... I was rather apprehensive because of the long gap in time... and no great love of dentists... only to discover my teeth were in perfect condition, needing nothing but a cleanse and that is such a delight. Also with fasting... it does not trouble me... eating does. I was lucky or unlucky to have the world's worst cook for a mother... and take over from when I was 10... so I have always dreamed of just taking tablets and not losing so much time with so many meals. Of course my husband finds that appalling, especially for Frenchman!! Since food never held a fascination happily ways around not having to eat have!! Oddly enough most of my fasts have occurred naturally... I was doing a healing once with a pregnant woman... saw her child... and from that moment she no longer had morning sickness... and I completely lost my desire to eat... and didn't eat for a week!! I also find when doing a lot of work using spiritual energies, working in consciousness I have no desire to eat... and my salad and rice were more then enough in the middle of the afternoon. Sitting on a computer for a lot of time... well that can make you munchy... where's my trail mix......... Humble servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13278 From: J J Dewey Subject: Exercise Thanks Samu and Brian for posting the right web page for Paul Bragg's book. The suggested book there by Herbert Shelton is also good. The Question "What are your ideas in using exercise to increase the quality of health? There is a great health drawback to exercise that is often overlooked. Can you tell us what it is?" We must have a low interest in exercise here. For perhaps the first time no one responded to a question I have given the group. There are a lot of books on this subject so I will quickly give you a few of my thoughts and move on. For general health it is much better to concentrate on aerobic exercise, or exercises that cause you to breathe heavy and take in lots of oxygen. You can keep in reasonable shape with about 20 minutes of running a day or about 30 minutes of exercise less strenuous. When you are in shape though aerobics your heart is strengthened and the small capillaries are opened up allowing more oxygen to get to the cells. The biggest drawback to this heavy exercise is that you sweat a lot and in your perspiration are many valuable minerals. Therefore if you sweat a lot through exercise and excrete many minerals and do not replace them you could wind up in worse shape healthwise than if you did not exercise at all. How often have we heard about some health guru dying of a heart attack while running at age 50 or so? This could have been prevented if the person would have replaced the minerals he sweated out. Another important tip is this. You get as much as 50% more benefit from exercise if you are having fun while doing it. There's something about having fun that causes the secretion of good hormones that benefit health. If you have kids this gives you a good excuse to play with them. If you like sports, this gives you a good excuse to play. If you have to exercise alone in a boring atmosphere do your best to make it interesting. Question: There are three influences that can have a positive effect on health. They are color, music/sound and humor. How do you suppose these three things can influence health? Also, how can we best utilize the sun for health? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13279 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [JJ] The Sun *** The sun, which is the eye of the whole world is not affected by the impurities of the eyes of the common people which are external to it. Likewise, the one inner Self of all beings is not affected by the sorrows of the world, which are external to it. *** The sun is not stained or influenced by the impurities that exist in people's gaze, in people's eyes. Nor is it influenced by people's perceptions as to how it should or should not be. The sun is free from such things. *** People try to understand spirituality through words created by the mind. Words created by the mind are limitations. Only when we can move beyond the limitations of words and beliefs, only when we elevate ourselves beyond our need for acceptance and approval in the eyes of others will we know: and then, we will understand. *** The sun illuminates all. Everybody sees the sun, but not everybody understands it. *** The sun does not stop illuminating all, just because it is not understood by all. *** The sun continues to give its light even when we cannot see it. The sun knows itself. *** When you know the knower, then you will know your own Self. Christopher Wynter Hobart Tasmania anunda@anunda.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13280 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Colors/Music/Humor JJ asked: There are three influences that can have a positive effect on health. They are color, music/sound and humor. How do you suppose these three things can influence health? Also, how can we best utilize the sun for health? Judes: Well... I have HEARD that all of the above factors can be healing. I do not have anything to say really to add..so someone who has read more or works with these energies[ like some of our 'healer' types] can reply. I am responding ..because I worry that JJ will get his feelings hurt if no one replies or answers. Okay..I worry about JJ...[probably just projecting my own insecurities.[ LOL] Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13281 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: Colors/Music/Humor Well Judes we certainly want JJ in high spirits and radiant health so I'll add what little I can. If you tune the strings of two musical instruments to the same key and pluck the string of one, the other will vibrate in sympathy. The same holds true with colors, and music, and even laughter. Every nerve emerging from the spinal vertebrae, and connecting through the Autonomic Ganglia responds to a certain note on the Cosmic Keyboard, and each note in turn corresponds to a color in the spectrum of Rays. Red for instance came make us feel energized when we have been feeling low on energy. Yellow can sharpen our intellect, and when we're to tight and tense a medium shade of blue can be quiet calming. In turn each and every color through the law of correspondences, corresponds to a musical note on the Cosmic Keyboard. Then laughter or humor works the same way through sympathetic harmonics. Look up in the sky, and soon everyone will be looking up in the sky, the same holds true for laughter. In regard to the Sun, even if we exclude the more physical effects that most would think of, it has an direct effect on the Pineal Gland, and can be a great reliever of depression. It also has a very high rate of vibration which through sympathetic correspondence raises our rate of vibration on contact. hehehe best I can do! Your Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13282 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Exercise JJ's Question: "There are three influences that can have a positive effect on health. They are color, music/sound and humor. How do you suppose these three things can influence health? Also, how can we best utilize the sun for health?" I AM inclined to be serious for a moment here. Color, music, humor & sun? Answer: Psychedelic drugs, rock -n- roll, dirty jokes & a naked volley ball game. Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13283 From: Liam Finghin Subject: Re: [ Re: (OT) Another Hot Topic!] Travis Tabbal wrote: "School prayer" is a bad thing in a public school." Almost everyone agrees that the government shouldn't be able to dictate what ideas are taught in official (public) churches. In fact we don't have public churches in this country. Then why do so many accept the idea that government should dictate what _ideas_ are taught in schools? It would seem to me that the problem is the very concept of public schools. If there were no public schools then there would be no problem, would there? I would bet that, what with competition and less highly paid administrators, that private schools could provide a far better education, far cheaper. More importantly schools would be responsive the parents (their customers) as to the ideas (religious, or otherwise) being taught. Most importantly of all this would "wound the head" of "authority" very significantly. That is no doubt why the "beast" of public schools fights so fiercely anytime vouchers, or other alternatives are proposed. For my family, we at least have slain the beast in this area because we homeschool our children. lf "If it is coerced or done in an official capacity I have a problem with it. This is where issues like "Who's religious beliefs are espoused?" come up. Questions like which God they are praying to.. The answer is simple, and it's written very well in the 1st amendment. Allow people to express themselves, and their religious beliefs in whatever way they wish. As long as nobody is harmed by it and nobody is forced to participate. "If the schools or the public want to provide a time for prayer, why not have a few minutes set aside for 'contemplation' or something? Those who want to pray, can. Those who prefer meditation, can.. and those who just want to sit there and stare at the wall, can. It's hard to make everyone happy in any instance. But why restrict anyone? Since you can't please everyone, I prefer to err on the side of freedom. "That is an interesting little passage though.. I saw it a while back when the whole thing was still a huge news item. "Travis" Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13284 From: Diane Linen Subject: OT Activist Groups Petition FDA To Change Rules On Altered Foods Activist Groups Petition FDA to Change Rules on Altered Foods Bloomberg News Mar 21 2000 12:01AM Washington, March 21 (Bloomberg) -- Some 40 activist groups (including the Organic Consumers Association) will petition the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday, encouraging the agency to change the way it regulates genetically modified foods, according to one of the groups, the Center for Food Safety. The organizations, which include Consumers Union, the Natural Resources Defense Council and the American Corn Growers Association, want the FDA to require labeling on foods that have been genetically engineered and to set more stringent standards on testing the foods for safety. The FDA considers genetically engineered ingredients substantially the same as conventionally produced ingredients and the groups want the FDA to change its policy. The petition is being filed as the FDA considers whether to change its rules on bioengineered foods. Regulators held three public meetings late last year to gauge consumer interest in the issue. After hearing from hundreds of people, FDA officials said they hadn't heard any convincing evidence that the products were a threat to public safety. What the FDA decides is important to companies that make genetically modified seeds, including Monsanto Co. and DuPont Co., and major food companies that would be required to adhere to labeling laws. An estimated 60 percent of the packaged foods sold in U.S. supermarkets, from Kellogg Co.'s Frosted Flakes to Coca-Cola, contain genetically modified ingredients. Ronnie Cummins BioDemocracy Campaign/Organic Consumers Association 6114 Hwy 61 Little Marais, Mn. 55614 Tel. 218-226-4164 Fax 218-226-4157 email: alliance@mr.net http://www.purefood.org Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-22/13285 From: Margaret Leach Subject: Re: Color/Music/Humor Music and sound affect our bodies at the cellular level. Harmonious sounds increase the streaming of cellular processes within the cells themselves as well as stimulate more rhythmic firings of nerve synapses, greater bilateral coherence within the brain, ie greater regularity and symmetry as shown on eeg's, and of course regulate bodily processes such as heart rate, respiration rate, blood pressure, etc. The entire body is a sounding board, much like a violin body is to the violin strings. And as such, resonates to a greater or lesser degree to all sounds within its sphere -- from infrasound thru the audible sound range and up through many levels of ultrasound. Each body has its own unique sound signature (sound pattern which it emits) which influences its ability to resonate. In other words, due to your own body's unique sound signature, you will resonate more readily to some sounds/music than to others. This is further modified by our mental and emotional tastes, of course, but here I am speaking primarily of actual characteristics of the physical level. As JWK mentioned, resonance and sonic entrainment is a definite part of sound/music therapy. Our bodies are inherently rhythmic in nature, with many different layers of rhythms going on concurrently. When music is superimposed upon the other rhythms, any rhythms that are close to the music source will entrain with that source, ie change to match it. This is why a music therapist will start a therapy session using music that matches where the patient is currently, then gradually move the music in the direction she/he is trying to move the patient. Of course resonance and entrainment happen with noise as well, fracturing our body's sense of coherence, harmony and symmetry, leaving us tired and drained. We are tired and drained from our body's physical efforts to maintain its own rhythmic fields in the face of strong fracturing rhythms which are trying to superimpose upon it. So how do we use this knowledge and use music as an aid to our own health? By recognizing, first, our own individual uniqueness and learning to listen to our own body's needs. By recognizing our body's responses to the sounds around us and learning to give our body whatever sounds it needs -- sometimes calming, sometimes rejuvenating, etc. Of course, all this happens at the emotional level as well and we must be conscious and aware of those feelings as well. It all ties together and is often hard to separate. Toning and chanting establish powerful resonances within our own bodies. And since the sound is self-generated, the resonance is particularly powerful, already coming from a within source. Establishing resonance in the head (sinus cavities and deeper), for example, stimulates the pineal gland which then emits more melatonin. Low levels of melatonin are always present in cancer and high levels of melatonin have been shown to reverse cancerous conditions. Melatonin helps regulate our sleep/awake cycles. Higher levels of melatonin have a calming, relaxing effect. Much more could be written but it's getting past my bedtime! Let me just say briefly that color is also vibratory in nature (the entire color spectrum being one octave) and relates as JWK has already said. Again the importance is to be aware of different colors' affect on us and consciously choosing the colors we surround ourselves with. Laughing has been shown to release the same endorphins that speed healing and alleviate pain. Humor is vital to our health. Besides, what fun is it to be grumpy???? And the point of being here is to have fun and play, right? (If you think that's wrong, don't bother telling me 'cause I'm having too much fun!) Humming myself off to bed, Margaret Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13286 From: Joy Subject: Ordering book II I'd like to order the second book but I can't get to JJ's web site. Is there a problem with it? Can you direct me? Joy... Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13287 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Ordering book II Hi Joy, I just checked and it seemed OK. Do you have the correct address? It's http://www.freeread.com Alternatively, you could email JJ direct at jjd@rmci.net or book@freeread.com Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Doctrines and theories are best for weaker moments. In moments of strength, problems are solved intuitively, as if by themselves. - Johannes Itten Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13288 From: J J Dewey Subject: Color and Sound The Question: There are three influences that can have a positive effect on health. They are color, music/sound and humor. How do you suppose these three things can influence health? Also, how can we best utilize the sun for health? Thank you John and Margaret for your response to this. And Zia, good response to the last question. And double thanks Margaret for your excellent dissertation on sound. In past ages when the Fourth Ray was in cycle sound was a very potent healer. Sound, color and movement were powerful healing forces used in the ancient temples in Atlantis and this knowledge shall be restored at the right time in he future. Sound and color can be used to harmonize chords within our own makeup. The form side of our nature is made up of a chord of four notes which correspond to our rays. The first note is that of the physical body, the second the astral the third mental and the fourth the personality as a whole. Illness will often surface when one of these notes are unable to\ sound in fullness and when this happens the sounding needs to be reinforced Through meditation and contemplation you can discover which notes and colors that need to be stimulated within you. You can compensate by sounding this note in meditation and saying the OM on that note. Another way is to just sound the OM throughout the scale until you hit a note that strikes a need within you. Then if you sound it periodically you can reap much benefit. The same goes with colors. Look through or visualize the spectrum of colors and wait for your attention to fall upon one that seems most healing to you. Once this is discovered you can make a conscious attempt to bring as much of this color into your life as possible. Let us say that you sense that you lack red. This is a color that enhances physical vitality. You can start by eating more red food such as raspberries, strawberries, cherries radishes, rare red meat and cayenne pepper. The second thing you can do is to make a trip to the s tore and get a red light and let it shine on you while you sleep, work or relax. The third thing is that you can in meditation visualize yourself being surrounded by a beautiful rainbow of colors with red being in extra prominence. Then see yourself breathing in this red color and it vitalizing your whole body. Make sure you visualize a very bright and vital looking red. Here are the bare bones meanings of the basic colors. White This is a synthesis of all the colors and is a symbol of purity and completeness. Red Physical Energy; physically-based person personality or sensuality. Harsh reds tend to indicate emotionally charged physical animation, usually anger. Warm reds, sensuous, or physically charged and healthy. Orange Friendly, open, approachable. A strong orange also shows physical vitality. A good color to balance the mind and body. Yellow This is a good color to overcome depression and heighten spirits. It stimulates thinking, creativity imagination. Green This has often been called the healing color. This is because it is the midway color and can be used to balance the other notes within you. If you sense that your illness or discomfort is caused by being out of balance or "out of sorts" this is a good color for you. Concentration on this color aids in deva/angel contact. Blue This color is most strongly associated with the mind and is known as the calming color. The reason for this is that it takes attention away from the emotional body to the mind and thus allows the emotions to quiet down and recharge. Indigo A good color to stimulate the heart and the spiritual love necessary to heal. This color absorbs negativity. Violet Known as the spiritual color. A good general color to raise vibrations and center yourself on higher work. This color is associated with the Seventh Ray and is a good color to stimulate the body to improve its own defenses and building energies. Gold This is a strong healing color that will always tone the body and spirit. To be continued Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13289 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Color and Sound Loving greetings to One and All, J J Dewey: Through meditation and contemplation you can discover which notes and colors that need to be stimulated within you. You can compensate by sounding this note in meditation and saying the OM on that note. Another way is to just sound the OM throughout the scale until you hit a note that strikes a need within you. Then if you sound it periodically you can reap much benefit. Zia: Thank you for your kind comments JJ, and I have done alot of work with sound in healing... in fact it is something I truly love to use. What I have discovered is that a person's name, 'toned' as I call it, can have very beneficial healing effects upon the whole of the body being. As with my name Zia... I discovered these tone to Gold and a Lavender-Violet... and this toned powerfully has an incredible effect upon my own body. Om to me is universal, yet our own energy signature toned is extremely profound, and does on a healing level unlock many memories and powers within the individual. Experiment with sound and key notes within your name... find its harmony and balance... and often to work with another (facing each other)... both sounding your name and getting a resonance going also has a profound effect. As does omming together, again creating a resonance. I feel very 'guided' in the use of sound... and color is naturally contained within that to me. For as I tone particular sounds, I do indeed see particular colors... often in working with someone's name I understand what colors are most beneficial to them. In Australia I created my bedroom to be my colors profoundly, and wanted a six pointed star as a light fixture in my bedroom hanging from a very tall ceiling. Happily my ex husband found an incredible chrome light made up of crystal and round chrome rods, that astonishing produced 6 x 6 pointed stars in shadow effect on my ceiling... this room was my paradise. I discovered also here, since I have not repainted and have more than just myself to consider... that color selection on bedding can be quite vital and beneficial and worth changing just as pure colors... again your body will certainly speak to you... the color often causes you to want to touch it... you are drawn to actually stroke the color that makes you feel good... do that as a means of shopping for towels and sheets, and those things, you put next to your body, especially while sleeping. The effect can be quite dramatic and very restful. In here I would put that a powerful use of the sun, not readily used in America as far as I have noticed, and certainly not so easy in this rainy climate... is drying one's clothing, bedding, towels all of one's washing really in the sun... preferably on one of those clothes lines that go round and round in a gentle breeze. Sunning one's bedding and even carpets... is refreshing and rejuvenating... and perhaps cleansing of bacteria etc. Towels fluffed in a drier and dried in the sun... ahhhh if they are your color, can be so healing to your body.... to me this is where a sensuousness comes into play... through touch in the body with all of its surroundings. Our eyes also need the vitamin A gained from natural sunlight... and I find prisms and the like that catch the sun and reflect colors into one's room etc... also beneficial. Another thought about the sun is that with plants and animals making up our physical bodies... the sun's stimulus to these plants and animals just as in nature must have a profound growing, regenerating effect upon one's bodies. The sun is radiating all the colors in the elctromagnetic spectrum and beyond... so we too become receivers of that color spectrum, and thus benefit. We would have no pigment in our skin without the sun... but be lily white... so our skin, the largest organ in our body does indeed benefit from appropriate amounts of sun... not so much that it is tanned... which actually dries and kills the skin... but enough to feed the skin, and the hairy plants we have upon our bodies!! JJ: The same goes with colors. Look through or visualize the spectrum of colors and wait for your attention to fall upon one that seems most healing to you. Once this is discovered you can make a conscious attempt to bring as much of this color into your life as possible. Zia: I especially agree with the color green.. it is the most soothing of the colors... and imagining a green rainbow washing the body... all the shades... and then specific healing colors, including golden sunlight to the brow.... are profound. I have had for many years a strong desire to create what I would call a healing chamber, with crystals and color and accoustically structured for sound resonance. Blue to me is a purification color... deep and cleansing... violet flame restoring and regenerating. Perhaps the most healing color of all. Sparkling brings added life into the colors... and vibration another keynote in healing. We must also include perfumes, essences, incense.... because an enormous amount of healing occurs through olfactory stimulation... like music and sound, smell is a profound memory trigger. Stimulating the senses aids in their purification... and enhancement. The real focus to me is the brain... that to achieve a 'high spin state at the atomic/sub-atomic levels, with phase entrainment... everything moving in the same direction and balanced positive/negative' thus opens the brain, a receiver, to receive higher and higher levels of consciousness, and be able to process these levels of consciousness through the brain's thinking/reasoning function within the brain. If we are closed down in illness and most of our energy going into processing food and striving to heal the body... there is really none left to continue the process of activating the pathways of light in the brain for greater and greater receivership. That to me is the goal of all healing. Humble servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-23/13290 From: "Caramel" Subject: Re: Color and Sound JJ: I believe the sun provides all the colors the body needs. I don't care whom thinks I am nuts, but since I'm going to tell you guys what I do that has helped me. Since I recognize that I am not yet that great with visualizations, I use colored light bulbs for healing minor ailments on myself. For example, if I have a sore throat, I take my flexible good neck lamp with standard size bulb and replace it with a blue light bulb. I lay down on my bed and place the lamp near my feet and I don't know if it's mental, but I swear I feel immediate relief and I feel the sense of absorption of the color. It's not the heat that I believe helps heal: it's the color. After 15 minutes or less, my sore throat pain is relieved greatly. There is plenty of information on colors in books and on the Net. Just search for word "chromotherapy". I used cromoterapia and found plenty of Spanish info. on the Net. Indigo color is a bit difficult to stumble across, but if anyone wants an indigo colored light bulb, I know the supplier where to buy it from and they're on the Net. What prompted me to search for information on colors was because I was once feeling depressed with my foster mom's downfall in health and I heard like someone whisper in my ear "learn the colors and the points" (heard the voice in Spanish;I'm translating). I was like, what points??? So I started looking up info. on colors and about accupressure points. My best guess is that the voice was referring to accupressure points. Bottom line: I used the indigo colored light bulb to relief my mom's ill lungs and it sure worked. Of course, she received her medical attention, but the medication was not really working too rapidly. Needless to say, I have all colors of light bulbs. I had already mentioned in a previous post about sounds. Well, like JJ's post states, the "OM" sound works for many instances. It works for me. About the humor, well, if one is always in a good positive humor (or at least trying to because situations to be upset about will always pop up) then one draws positive vibrations, where on the other hand, if there is someone is always in a bad humor/mood, then it's just the opposite, that person is drawing negative vibrations which are not precisely favorable for health. Out of lurking mode for a few minutes, Blessings and white love to all, Caramel Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13291 From: "Jytte.Brender" Subject: RE: Color and Sound `Fourth, an easy supplement would be to wear red clothes of the right nuance. Love, Jytte JJ: "Through meditation and contemplation you can discover which notes and colors that need to be stimulated within you. .... The same goes with colors.... Let us say that you sense that you lack red. This is a color that enhances physical vitality. You can start by eating more red food such as raspberries, strawberries, cherries radishes, rare red meat and cayenne pepper. "The second thing you can do is to make a trip to the s tore and get a red light and let it shine on you while you sleep, work or relax. "The third thing is that you can in meditation visualize yourself being surrounded by a beautiful rainbow of colors with red being in extra prominence. Then see yourself breathing in this red color and it vitalizing your whole body. Make sure you visualize a very bright and vital looking red." Post no. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13292 From: "Anni West" Subject: Re: Color and Sound Hi keysters JJ wrote: "The Question: There are three influences that can have a positive effect on health. They are color, music/sound and humor. How do you suppose these three things can influence health?" Anni: Some years ago I attended a class in "throat singing" (translated from the Danish name - don't know the English word). It is a special kind of singing where you produce overtones and it is very healing and cleansing especially when done in a group. I love to do this at home by myself also - although I am not sure that my neighbors find it as uplifting as I do - LOL! Love to all Anni Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13293 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: [OT] World Peace This information is now available for release as the Media launch was held today .. A world "Think Tank" for Global Peace has been organised for early next year and all of the Living Nobel Peace Laureates have been invited to attend. The first and immediate "yes" response from the Dalai Lama ... This Think Tank is to be held in Hobart Tasmania Christopher Wynter (Who speaks Tasmanian, not English) Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13294 From: xavier Subject: OT colored light production Re: RE: Color and Sound thanks Jytte;-) "Jytte.Brender": "Fourth, an easy supplement would be to wear red clothes of the right nuance." JJ: "The second thing you can do is to make a trip to the store and get a red light and let it shine on you while you sleep, work or relax." Okay, let me add this: Colored light bulbs are only one option to produce colored light. I have a friend who produces devices that are composed of a tiny halogen light bulb (about 5Watts) encased in a vertical cylinder carved into an alabaster support. So the light is directed upwards through a hole of about 1/2 inch. Over this hole you place Silice colored filters (church glass). And over the filters you place crystals, that are thus lightened from under by a colored light. The disk-shaped filters, being made of silice and metallic oxydes, allow much more "information" to be passed than plastic ones. The crystal, standing on the filter, will also transform the light of the bulb, making it more readily available to the body (quartz being a key to cells and consciousness, maybe) If one wants to cut the information included in the AC/DC, produced god knows where (like nuclear plants and so on) one needs to use a 24 carats gold electrode. The electricity that passes through 24 C Gold is cleaned. Another cool feature: half disk filters, so that you can use two of them. Imagine mixing two colours inside a crystal. lol. And of course, white light can be used to color colored crystals like pink quartz for example, that are translucent. Well that was not supposed to be an ad, but to say that there are better ways to produce colored light than colored light bulbs. Another advantage: the colors produced by silice filters are richer and more complete, in terms of "spectrum". Another thing: by sliding a sheet of gold along the walls of the inner carved cylinder, one produces a light comparable to sunlight : white reflected on gold;-) It really works;-) Something to better: halogen bulbs are far from perfect. There exists now some light bulbs that produce a light that is very accurately near sunlight (sunlight of a particular time of the day, necessarily) I just bought one, but it produces the equivalent light of a common 85W bulb. This would take a huge silice filter to use;-) (not to mention the crystal lol) Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13295 From: J J Dewey Subject: Humor and the Sun If health enthusiasts were aware if the benefits of humor they'd go for a good laugh before they would wolf down the wheat germ oil. Humor has been known to have cured even the so-called incurable diseases to just making it a little easier to get through that winter flu. For instance, I read a while back about a guy who had cancer and after reaching some dead ends he decided to try the humor cure and rented every comedic film he could get his hands on, read joke books and did everything he could to maker himself laugh. It wasn't long before the cancer was reversed and completely eliminated. Part of what makes us ill is our tendency to focus too much in one direction at the expense of others and if this wrong focus opens a window for disease then a diverting of attention is a positive thing. Humor diverts our attention to a very light and frivolous but necessary place which is an opposite polarity to the serious world we often find ourselves tapped in. Humor thus "lifts our spirits" and in this lifting of energy comes a healing force. Look around you at your circle of friends and associates. Divide them into those who are overly serious and seen to have little humor in their lives and then separate others who are light hearted and seem to enjoy a good laugh. Which group is the healthier? I would guess that in almost every case the ones with a good sense of humor are the healthier. I know this is the case with my friends and associates. Let us pick on Craig here. He's always cutting up and I'll bet he's one of the healthiest one's on the list. Humor is also a necessary ingredient to keep us healthy spiritually as we are told that one of the strongest differentiations between the Light and Dark Brothers is a sense of humor. The Dark Brothers take themselves way to seriously because they are always focusing on themselves. Within themselves there is only darkness and there is nothing there to be lighthearted about. The Brother of Light is full of Light within and looks upon the whole in the light and sees much to smile about. There is a dark side to humor just as there is in all things. Negative humor gets a laugh at the expense of someone's hurt feelings. A person on the path does not usually laugh at this type of humor but lower level humans enjoy it. A person on the path will not knowingly seek a laugh at the expense of an innocent person's feelings. I say innocent because there are exceptions in all things. For instance during World War II the Allies put out a film clip about Hitler that made him look stupid buffoon. I think Hitler deserved whatever he got in this case, but overall we should always seek the path of harmlessness even with the bad guys. Another difference between light and dark is that it is difficult to offend a person on the Path and he will never be offended where no offense was intended. He who is not on the path will not only be offended when offense was intended but will often take offense when no offense was intentional. The much maligned Sun is a great health stimulant that is often overlooked. While it is true that you do not want to overdo sun exposure it is also true that the Sun is the ultimate source of prana which is the essential nutrient for the etheric bodies of all living things. Prana circulates through the spleen which in turn takes it in connection with a center between the shoulder blades and another above the diaphragm. This is one reason that health conscious people have a natural instinct to sun bathe. DK says something interesting in this regard. He says that our attitude toward the sun has a lot to do with how beneficial are its rays to us. An adept who has learned to work with the devas that assist in transmuting solar prana can spend any amount of time in the sun without harm. For those of us who have not attained this mastery the best thing to do is just see the solar rays as being friendly to us rather than something that causes cancer. Could it be that part of the reason that skin cancer is on the increase is because of the media's proclamation that the sun is dangerous thereby influencing thoughts about it? Of course, we should all use common sense, but it is wise to get small amounts of sunlight as frequently as possible. Question: Have you ever noticed that many people who seem to be very health conscious and are always sacrificing to eat the right things seem to be in poor health where as some of the healthiest people you know seem to have a devil-may-care attitude about it and seem to do nothing out of the ordinary for their health? What do you suppose is the explanation for this. The answer is actually an important key to health. Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All Rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13296 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Xavier] OT colored light production Re: Color and Sound What you gave written Xavier is absolutely correct. There are several enhancements of what you wrote that I have used in my work ... 1. The light can be pulsed on and off at a frequency harmonically related to the light frequency. 2. A clear crystal cut as a lens can be used to focus this light into a small area of the body .. as in tension held in muscle groups to release the emotions stored there (good for sports injuries) 3. Sound can be introduced to enhance the harmonic richness by using either single or dual tones to produce audio pulses of the appropriate frequencies 4. Sound can also be introduced with the use of sound transducers placed directly against the skin, bone and muscle groups 5. It is also possible to use a pulsed or steady magnetic field of a specific frequency .... as an enhancement or to balance the effects These are some are some of the tools that I have designed and used to access memories held in specific areas of my own body and those of volunteers ... However .. a word of caution ... the emotional release from such a process can be extremely cathartic .. and can produce some unpleasant experiences .. One of the advantages of the system I designed was that I was able to bring memories and visual images up out of the body whilst the mind was in full waking consciousness .. ie .. there was no meditation or hypnosis used ... and the head area, eyes and ears were totally shielded from any of the signals ... So, you are on the right track .. but, because I consider this equipment could be very dangerous in the wrong hands, I will not release details or drawings or the frequencies used. .. of course, if, with this information someone designs something, fair enough ... that is their responsibility. (and rather than alabaster, I used a copper tube which was gold plated on the inside) I have also used laser diode activation of specially cut crystals ... using different colour temperatures for the lasers and also variable pulse rates. .. also computer controlled pulsed combinations of different frequency lasers ... The response of the crystal can also be changed by enclosing it in an electromagnet using a rare earth magnet core. Christopher Wynter "Okay, let me add this: "Colored light bulbs are only one option to produce colored light. I have a friend who produces devices that are composed of a tiny halogen light bulb (about 5Watts) encased in a vertical cylinder carved into an alabaster support." Post No. keys-l: /2000-03-24/13297 From: Christopher Wynter