2000 - WEEK 9 Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12647 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: QT - Ancient Lore Ancient Lore... There is a Portal and its Gates stand wide open. Yet none may pass those Gates ere he has gathered his Karma and laid it to rest in his bosom. Then he must light the Torch of Glory and carry it along the highway of his undertaking, guiding those who follow; following those who guide. He must relinquish all reaction to worldly attractions; He must find the Light within; He must radiate that Light to his companions and followers; He must gather the energy of love from above and release it to those who seek to draw upon his strength. When he finds the Gate, it will open unto him and those who follow will see only the torch he left behind; and it will inspire and expand their consciousness of the Way and the Wisdom and the World. from: http://www.wustrust.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who are good with words, and those who are... erm... thingy Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12648 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: QT - Ancient Lore Aaaaah ... the first Universal Law The First and Second commandment ... Christopher Wynter The only constant is variable ... change is the only certainty Every time you look at something it isn't what it was ... last time you looked why do you try to make it so ..? Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12649 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Astral Projection Craig.Tholson writes: "I can't seem to get my astral projector to work. Do any of you know what I need to do in order to get it to play out-of-body movies?" "I've been trying for about one month. I thought you guys might have some hot tips." Hi Craig It would seem that you have answered your own question in the quotes. LOL It could be that you are just trying too hard. If you want a good out-of-body movie, rent or buy "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams. Great movie. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12650 From: J J Dewey Subject: Back to Correspondences I would like to thank Rachel for her post. Not very often are adults reminded to behave themselves by one so young. I commend you for speaking up. I'm sure many are also interested in some of your thoughts on issues we are discussing. May I submit to you that all arguing is not bad. What is bad is to be on the extreme of any principle. To never take issue with what you consider illusion or wrong thinking is as wrong as losing your temper and resorting to name calling. The true course of action is always somewhere in the middle. A person should not be a wallflower nor should he be in your face, but to present your opposing view in a kind manner yet at the same time presenting your case clearly can be a good thing and help to bring the truth to light. Another point to consider is that we are fortunate to live in countries where we can speak our minds. Those who live in totalitarian countries do not have the freedom to ask questions or argue about any political (and in some cases religious views). If they disagree with something the only response is silence or they could face imprisonment for speaking out. So in this regard I consider myself very fortunate to be able to disagree with anyone I want. Nevertheless, I believe your post to us touched hearts and I'm sure we will all try harder to be more civil when we do disagree. It is very important that we all learn to let others disagree with us, even to the point of being ridiculous or obnoxious, yet maintain the power to respond with pleasantly with reason. Moving on here I will make one more statement on the much discussed topic of karma. It seems that some believe that if we can just realize that from the aspect of the Eternal Now that cause and effect is happening at the same time that will give us some type of mystical power of transcendence over this law. That is like saying that when you take a trip that you begin and end the trip at he same time from a higher viewpoint. OK. Does this knowledge change anything for us in this world? Would this knowledge give me the power to make a 14 hour drive to California in an instant because the beginning and end is one in some mystical reality? If we could attain this power by just realizing this oneness in the Eternal Now then I wouldn't even have to spend time with cause and effect in writing this post, for the beginning and end (cause and effect) of my writing would be at the same instant and this writing which takes some time would be over in less than a snap of a finger. But what is he truth here? Even Zia and Paul have to travel through time minute by minute just like the rest of us as they use the duality of caused and effect to write and post to this list or make a trip. The basic law of Karma or Cause and Effect is never transcended, but mastered and "wielded" by the Masters as DK puts it. Once the law is mastered then the only effects we have to deal with are those we decide to accept within our own sphere of power. Keep in mind that there is always a ring-pass-not outside of which we do not yet have power to initiate cause. The past month or so we have had cycles where we have had so many postings that it has made it difficult from some e-mail programs of members. The shoot the breeze forum has helped some, but as I thought about the problem an idea came to me that could help. I know Rick and several others are working on completing the archives of all of our posts. The advantage of these archives is that they have all unnecessary wording, html etc removed so it makes it much easier reading than our current posts.. My suggestion is that instead of working on the older posts that he work on the most recent posts first and work backwards from there. This way those who have limited computer capacity can download recent writings and keep current with discussions. An additional benefit is that new members can easily review the past few weeks of postings when they join and it will make it easier for them to orient themselves. I would also like to remind members that Rick and his few helpers are putting a lot of work on this project and there is still a long way to go so I would encourage anyone who wishes to assist to contact Rick. Now let's get back on topic and review the unanswered questions. Question Now everyone says that the number of creations are infinite, but because everyone believes this does not make it true. Does the Law of Correspondences suggest that there is a certain number to all things including the worlds within the universe of universes? First we might say that in all creations that we have been able to examine that there is always a specific number of units within its body. There is a specific number of electrons and protons in each atom. There is a specific number of atoms in each molecule. There is a specific number of molecules in each human body. There are a specific number of humans on the planet and there are a specific number of planets and stars within a galaxy. Using the Law of Correspondences we can then assume that there would be a specific number of galaxies in the universe. Susan gave a great scripture in this direction where God said: "The worlds are without number unto man but they are numbered unto me." If this scripture is true then their is a specific number of worlds known only to God. The question that no one answered seriously is: Are we just a small particle in a greater universe so we may just be a part of a pimple on someone's giant nose? Many theoretical scientists have considered this possibility, but they have overlooked one important item in the Law of Correspondences and that is this. As we proceed from the small to the big the maturity of organization decreases. In other words, a solar system is less organized than the human kingdom and humanity is less organized than a cell. As we go up the scale the largest organized bodies mapped by man are galaxies and groups of galaxies. Galaxies are quite simple in organization with the majority of stars gathering in a center and all circling in orbit. Groups of galaxies are simpler still with a very loose organization where the center is difficult to determine. Following this correspondent out to the universe itself we would have (as we said earlier) a very young universe with a very elementary shape,. Now what does this tell us? This leads us to a very interesting conclusion and that is this. Our universe would be the largest organized body in existence and if there are other universes there is no organization that exists between them. There may be at some far future time, but at present the organization of God ends at the universe level. This would mean that we could not be an atom on a pimple of someone's giant nose. Now there is another correspondence that indicates that we are on the right track here and that is this. We are created in the image of God. In other words, we are the reflections of God. Using this correspondence between man and God we can find out about ourselves by finding out about God. On the other hand, we can find out about God by looking at ourselves. To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12651 From: (Jean) Subject: Re: Digest No. 2000-02-28 of The Keys of Knowledge List Dear Rachel, Such a wise young woman! Must bbe a chip off the ole block : Wonderfully put I may add. Let it be a lesson to all of us "keysters", and yes Zia is right you have to finish up the book and join in! Love and blessings, Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12652 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Digest No. 2000-02-28 of The Keys of Knowledge List Jean wrote: "Dear Rachel, Such a wise young woman! Must be a chip off the ole block :) Wonderfully put I may add. Let it be a lesson to all of us "keysters", and yes Zia is right you have to finish up the book and join in!" Hi Jean, Yes Rachel has a lot of wisdom to impart to the list but she is doing quite well even if she hasn't finished the book. There are a lot of people on the list that haven't even read book 1 yet, much less book 2. So I think she should go ahead and join us anyway. We can use her wise input to the list. Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12653 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: TO ALL Hi all ! It's me again. I'm not an active participant but I read most of your posts .... I just want to share a few things with you guys. KARMA: I think that the negative or positive energy you send out doesn't return at all BUT if you are negative or positive then you will attract the same energy in the state that you are in. So ........ if you are + then you will attract all that is + and vice versa. Only food for thought. Light & Love to all Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12654 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences JJ writes: "To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves." Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time?" This is a complex question. In the using of my own learnings, I find that quite often I am able to be efficient when the things (2 or 3) I am doing are not centered in the mind. I'm speaking of physical chores like washing clothes and vacuuming the rug at the same time. "If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time?" When I am reading the list, editing, or in meditation/contemplation, I am most efficient to focus on that alone. Distractions here cause inefficiency for me. This sounds like cause and effect duality. So if I can find God within myself, then it must be that God is open to all things, focusing on all things. (Humph, bet He doesn't have to wash clothes.) We just do the best we are able with our measly 10% of brain usage and look forward to full consciousness with the hope/expectation that we, also, will be able to focus on more at a time. (Good grief, I hope that statement doesn't infer separation.) Sorry, just thinking out loud. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12655 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences "Moving on here I will make one more statement on the much discussed topic of karma. It seems that some believe that if we can just realize that from the aspect of the Eternal Now that cause and effect is happening at the same time that will give us some type of mystical power of transcendence over this law. That is like saying that when you take a trip that you begin and end the trip at he same time from a higher viewpoint. OK. Does this knowledge change anything for us in this world? Would this knowledge give me the power to make a 14 hour drive to California in an instant because the beginning and end is one in some mystical reality? If we could attain this power by just realizing this oneness in the Eternal Now then I wouldn't even have to spend time with cause and effect in writing this post, for the beginning and end (cause and effect) of my writing would be at the same instant and this writing which takes some time would be over in less than a snap of a finger. "But what is he truth here? Even Zia and Paul have to travel through time minute by minute just like the rest of us as they use the duality of caused and effect to write and post to this list or make a trip. "The basic law of Karma or Cause and Effect is never transcended, but mastered and "wielded" by the Masters as DK puts it. Once the law is mastered then the only effects we have to deal with are those we decide to accept within our own sphere of power. Keep in mind that there is always a ring-pass-not outside of which we do not yet have power to initiate cause. J.J. Dewey" Cause is not what precedes effect but what produces effect. The factor of time has no part to play in causal relation. Though manifesting in our frame of reference as precedent and posterior cause and effect exist simultaneously in reality as do all things. Whichever concept we use, such as transcending, mastering or wielding or the like all it means is one idea, namely, awareness, the key idea in human evolution. We evolve by becoming increasingly aware of first the simultaneity of cause and effect and then their oneness. Our point of departure being perception of cause and effect as separate from each other. Before being fully aware of the oneness of cause and effect we would still be subject to illusion, such as the belief of ring-pass-not or travel through time minute by minute and so forth. DK speaks of illusion as if it is real because he is speaking our language, the only language we can fully understand. But he does sometimes caution us about illusion when he speaks of reality and the difference between reality and illusion. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12656 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences J J Dewey wrote: "To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time?" Cooperation between entities (from atoms to universes) to become more than they already are alone. Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12657 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences "This sounds like cause and effect duality. So if I can find God within myself, then it must be that God is open to all things, focusing on all things. (Humph, bet He doesn't have to wash clothes.) We just do the best we are able with our measly 10% of brain usage and look forward to full consciousness with the hope/expectation that we, also, will be able to focus on more at a time. (Good grief, I hope that statement doesn't infer separation.) Sorry, just thinking out loud. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin" Don't worry, Marylin. It is all right that we stand on the stepping stone of separation when making the jump to God and his knowledge. That is the way it is supposed to be. Meaning that is the natural way as designed by God. Whether perceived as separate or not nothing is really separate anyway. Everything is A-OK. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Paul Yu Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12658 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences J J Dewey wrote: "To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time?" PS If I were to use the law of correspondence I would agree with Marylin that women are able to be multi tasked, but men do better focusing on one thing at a time. SO what is God, male or female or blended? Again using the law of correspondence is God a partnership like a marriage? If I compare God to myself, I always have many responsibilities at one time, but there are many things that function without my conscious awareness--like my lungs and heart. This starts to blow my mind trying to comprehend God. It was easier when my religious leaders told me what to believe. Susan (a bit facetious, a lot of bit confused) Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12659 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Hi Susan: I really enjoyed this post, especially since I recently got married!! ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12660 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences "I really enjoyed this post, especially since I recently got married!!" Gol - Darn - It! That was supposed to be a private post. I hate clogging up the list with these little "nice post" notes. Arrrrrrggggghhhhh! Oh well. Have a happy.... ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12661 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Loving greetings, JJ: To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time? Zia: By focusing on only one thing at a time, our total attention, energy, will, and love (attractive force for manifestation) is most efficient, because it is through these functions that manifestation (action) occurs. Efficient implies time, therefore focused attention on one specific say in healing, will bring rapid manifestation, rather than focusing on several aspects, thus slowing the receipt of maximal required energy to each aspect, thus slowing manifestation in time. God (filtered through the hierarchies) is focusing attention on the human being, because we are at a vital point of evolution, and through the human being we have the opportunity to bring 'spiritual' energies to the physical that has not been done before, hence the focus upon 'molecular relationships'. Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12662 From: Deborah Matthies Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Brian Weis writes: "I really enjoyed this post, especially since I recently got married!!" And?. "Gol - Darn - It! That was supposed to be a private post. I hate clogging up the list with these little "nice post" notes. Arrrrrrggggghhhhh! Congradulations Brian!!!! Oh well. Have a happy.... ~B." Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12663 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Loving greetings, JJ: But what is he truth here? Even Zia and Paul have to travel through time minute by minute just like the rest of us as they use the duality of caused and effect to write and post to this list or make a trip. Zia: First of all it is my understanding JJ that you have always asked us to express from the highest within us. Just because I have not talked about traveling through time, does not mean I am not doing it nor that I am not conscious of it, nor that I am in any denial of it! Yet, consider that when I plan a trip, in consciousness I am creating the trip, there are steps, for example seeing the desired result, or goal, then experiencing that creation, planning etc... and I have already in my mind experienced the trip! NOw in time comes the manifestation or action of the trip. No wonder many are in a daydream world when driving, or doing most of their tasks because it was the cause.... creative thought experienced (to me) immediately that held the real gem of experience. The physical effect engaged, is a confirmation. Now this is talking from 'creating events in one's life consciously', many are on auto pilot...even in the creation mode... so the 'greater' experience is achieved physically perhaps for most. Thus when we consciously create and focus upon a thing, we are experiencing it instantly at the highest level of mind and perhaps spiritually as well for the insights, guidance, received. That experience to me is profound. Greater than the physical effect, which really is the outpicturing of the creation, the cause, into matter, yet it has already been experienced. Hope this sheds some light on understanding. Even when I finally go to type/post my thoughts, I may have spent time doing several 'auto-pilot' tasks focused upon thought responses that I would like to share. I am experiencing these as I am thinking them. Then I simply write them. I wonder then is the cause, the thoughts, my experience immediately thinking these thoughts, the effect, and thus the physical, is it not the effect outpictured physically of the true effect? Just a thought?!!! Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12664 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Subjectless: To Craig Craig: Yes!!! I have put 'energy' into my postings here...and if I did not think that they what I say had merit I would not waste anyone else's energy to clutter up the list with them or waste energy for anyone else here. So..your NAIVE comment offended me and I feel that if you took the time to read my posts and therefore know me from at least that standpoint that you would discern that I am anything but naive. I felt that ..to have to defend myself on being or not being naive..took me back to my younger days of having to prove myself to especially men in the workforce that I was/am highly intelligent and worth having a voice. I have spent a lot of energy in my life 'proving' myself before I am allowed to have a voice and I do not want to have to do that here..especially since I feel I have already done that to some extent. I feel that my innateness of who I am and where I am on the path is obvious by the depth of my postings ..so being considered naive is not a trait that I want to have attached to my name. But a hug would definitely make it all better and since you are a Scorp too..if you would understand how we take ourselves somewhat seriously in that we like being astutely accurate in semantics, etc. And thanks for responding....like I said my energy level was low and compliment or pat on the back can be nice sometimes. Love: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12665 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Loving greetings, Thank you once again Paul for your clarity of expression. Paul: Whichever concept we use, such as transcending, mastering or wielding or the like all it means is one idea, namely, awareness, the key idea in human evolution. We evolve by becoming increasingly aware of first the simultaneity of cause and effect and then their oneness. Our point of departure being perception of cause and effect as separate from each other. Zia: Yes well said here Paul, the awareness of our mind, as opposed to the subsequent awareness of the body sensing in physicality is what I am seeing. It is as though we are cut-off from our mind initially and only perceive through the physical. Thus we have no idea initially where events are coming from! The great awareness is at a mind level, that's where awareness really occurs, and even in experiencing the physical it is really experienced in the mind. So the physical is like a second opportunity, slowed down in time for us to experience. Even to separate the physical experience in time is based upon a belief system... and in that understanding of 'simultaneity of cause and effect and then their oneness' that must become physically as well. Paul: Before being fully aware of the oneness of cause and effect we would still be subject to illusion, such as the belief of ring-pass-not or travel through time minute by minute and so forth. Zia: Thus what you say here, is my struggle of expression above. God's Will in Action, is God's thoughts cause, outpicturing effects through myself being the servant of God. This occurs in the NOW, thus no separation between God's thought cause (received) and my body's action effect. Willing to undertake God's Plan and live that without interference is profound to me. Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12666 From: "Darian & B.J." Subject: Fw: [fir] Red Star Over Alamosa The Alamosa Raider Editor G.P. Gripe Fax# 1-508-629-1274 The Alamosa Raider http://www.alamosacoloradoraider.homepage.com/ PLEASE REDISTRIBUTE FAR & WIDE A friend called today from Alamosa Colorado. Lorraine's voice was shaky, so I knew right away that something was wrong. Almost in tears, she related this horrifying story to me: My friend, Lorraine, her husband, Scott, their children, and dog were in the family's van returning from town. On a lonely stretch of highway, flashing lights in the rear-view mirror indicated that Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement wanted Scott to pull over. Scott stopped the vehicle at the side of the highway and waited for an Alamosa, Colorado officer to tell him what the problem was. One Alamosa, Colorado officer approached the van and told Scott that there was a taillight out...Then the Alamosa, Colorado officer jumped into the ditch and hid for a short time.....Suddenly, the vehicle was surrounded by Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement personnel with drawn guns pointing in the face of a seven-months pregnant young lady and her husband! This, of course, terrified the five young children in the van. I don't suppose these children will ever understand the Officer Friendly Program). One of the Alamosa, Colorado officers shouted at Scott, his wife and the five young children to put their hands up, which they did. Next, the Alamosa, Colorado officers shouted for Scott to open the door and get out of the van, which he did not immediately do because his hands were in the air and an Alamosa, Colorado officer had a pistol against the windshield of the van pointed at Scott's head. Scott explained this dilemma to the Alamosa Colorado officer, who then told him to slowly move his hand down and open the door, which he did. As soon as the latch on the door had released, the Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement officers, tore the door open, dragged Scott out of the van, and threw him to the ground, smashing his head and face into the asphalt until an adequate amount of Scott's blood covered the pavement, all the while keeping guns trained on him. While this was happening to Scott, Lorraine had moved into the back of the van to leash the dog who had begun to jump and growl and to calm the blood curdling cries of the five frightened young children! Now the Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement agents were yelling for Lorraine to get out of the van. But the seven-months-pregnant woman with a growling dog and five terrified children were not moving fast enough for the Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement officers so they shouted terroristic threats at her and the five terrified young children and pointed guns at her and the five terrified little children while she and the terrified children crawled from the back of the van. The officers asked Lorraine for her name, which she gave them, and other information, which she did not. So the agents turned their attention to interrogating the young children, who were too traumatized to say a thing! The Alamosa, Colorado officer wrote a summons for Lorraine accusing her of obstructing an officer in the performance of his duties because she had not exited the van quickly enough to suit them. Seven squad cars of Alamosa, Colorado officers continued to detain Lorraine, her five young children, and the dog, threatening to jail her and have social services come for the five traumatized young children if she didn't answer their questions. One Alamosa, Colorado officer told the children that they had bad parents. The children responded in unison that our Mom and Dad love us. Seven-months-pregnant Lorraine, and five traumatized young children were forced by Alamosa, Colorado law enforcement at gun point to stand outside the van, on a very cold winter night in the middle of February, in the Colorado mountains, while Alamosa, Colorado officers methodically tore up the interior of the customized camper/van. The weary and terrorized family was still standing at gunpoint, shivering in the freezing cold when a church member arrived to pick up the van. The church-member was allowed to reassemble the scattered interior of the van and take Lorraine and her children home. Miraculously, the faulty taillight was working again. You are probably thinking...Who is Scott?, some kind of gun-totin' thug that law enforcement had reason to believe was armed and dangerous? Is he a thief, drunk, or drug dealer that the criminal justice system can't seem to keep behind bars? Well, no. He isn't any of those things, let me tell you what he is. Scott is a Christian husband, and the father of five children with another on the way. He and his wife home-educate their school-age children, and he is a self-employed poet, muralist, painter and an artist. He doesn't drink, smoke, cuss, or beat his wife. Scott does not own a gun, and probably has never even fired one. So, what is a nice guy like this doing behind bars? What possible crime could Scott have committed to justify seven squad cars of law enforcement to approach him with guns drawn?? I honestly don't know. But it seems as if Law Enforcement in Colorado has been on a campaign in recent years to reeducate Scott about some 'misguided' beliefs he has regarding 'rights' and his belief in God (Where the spirit of the LORD is, there is LIBERTY (II Chorinthians 3:17). Once upon a time, Scott believed he had a right to travel and proceeded to do so (he also once believed he had certain Constitutional and even God-given rights). On a previous occasion before the court, a judge decided that Scott had been driving with an expired license rather than Scott's claim of having a right to travel without one. So the judge, in all his wisdom, suspended Scott's expired driver's license. If Scott chooses to operate a vehicle, he is now doing so with a suspended license which may be against the law in Colorado. Monday night, February 14, 2000, Scott chose to operate his vehicle. Tonight, (Tuesday Feb. 15) there is no record of Scott being booked into jail, but his seven-months-pregnant wife and his five Alamosa, Colorado law- enforcement-traumatized children haven't seen him since Monday (2/14/00) night when he was dragged out of his van and his head smashed violently against the pavement at gunpoint, by seven squad cars of Alamosa Colorado law enforcement officers....... P.S. So, where was Scott going Monday night? He was on his way home from town... after buying supplies... for an upcoming job... which are hard to find... when you are self-employed... because you can't get a 'regular' job... without a social security number... which Scott believes is the Mark of the Beast ... .....but that is another story..... Lorraine called me to ask for our prayers Send all correspondence to Scott Malueg General Delivery Hooper Post Office Hooper, CO. 81136 E-Mail alamosaraider@law.com Alamosa County's Sheriff 1-719-589-6608 City of Alamosa Chief of Police 1-719-589-2548 UPDATE: FEBRUARY 26, 2000: SCOTT MALEUG AND FAMILY Scott was released from jail Thursday, February 24. I have learned that Lorraine's ordeal (A seven-month pregnant young mother & her five little children being held at GUNPOINT) caused her to go into premature labor, shortly after the incident. Labor has stopped and started several times, so please pray for the safety of the baby.... Note to God's People who try to live what you believe: It's reported that when asked about Scott, the judge said , "Scott isn't a criminal, he is just strange." This information was sent to me by spiker@amnix.com All enquiries regarding this email must please be sent to the contact information above in the body of the email...please do not ask FLI for it. Our job is to redistribute news we feel important enough to follow up on, once we do that, the rest is up to you. This information has been a service of Freedom-Lovers International eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/fir www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12667 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: Missing you Judy Reese wrote: "Rick: Hi..Thank you for letting me know that you want me to stay..I was very depressed..because I really have no where else to go now but my own temple..as THIS is the BEST stuff I have ever found. And I know that you feel the same way about JJ's writings and JJ himself..because it passes our soul-testing impeccably. I was not really asking you to prove It [the comment that you made]..I was saying that from a purely logical viewpoint that THAT would put the cherry on the ice cream. AND I love your down-to earthiness..which I see as I sign of soul contact..because truth IS very very simple and not highly intellectual. Although you show that quality too." Rick Audette writes: "Hey Judes, "I don't know if you left before I posted the following letter, so I copy it below. I don't know why you got so upset and left. We all like the stuff you write and your enthusiasm. I hope you will reconsider and rejoin us." Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12668 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Dark Night of the Soul{OT} Keysters: "Dark Night of the Soul".. 'A Masterpiece in the Literature of Mysticism by St. John of the Cross'. I have had this book for many years and took it down off of my bookshelf yesterday[wonder why?] and was quite impressed. I had never been able to understand it before.. but after achieving soul- contact through contemplation ..this book seems to have much truth in it and spoke directly to my soul. It was written by St. John, a mystical Christian, during the 1500's; and is obvious to me that it was a divinely-inspired piece of literature. He explains the 'dark night' and even more enlightening.. information on the contemplative method for achieving higher truths. Much wisdom and I very much recommend this book to all here.. as it explains very much the path that we are all stepping onto or already walking. Love: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12669 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Attention of God Zia gives a good answer to the question which is: "Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time?" "God (filtered through the hierarchies) is focusing attention on the human being, because we are at a vital point of evolution, and through the human being we have the opportunity to bring 'spiritual' energies to the physical that has not been done before, hence the focus upon 'molecular relationships'." Now this brings up several questions. The first we shall explore is this: There are obviously many elaborate activities going on in the lives below us. Our cells are more complex than we can imagine, plus molecules atoms and subatomic worlds. How can we say that God's attention is on the human kingdom when the lower kingdoms seem to require such high intelligence just to maintain the status quo? Hint: Think software. Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12670 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Dark Night of the Soul{OT} Loving greetings, Thank you Judes, I will check this out (from the library if possible), sounds interesting... and a book I have found most interesting is 'The Living Word of St John', White Eagle's interpretation of the Gospel... from England, ISBN 0-85487-044-x. Bible quotation is from the Authorised Version of 1611, which is Crown Copyright and used with permission. Loving servant of God, ZIA ps Could you email me offline the ISBN number of the Dark Night??? Thanks. Judes: "Keysters: "Dark Night of the Soul"..'A Masterpiece in the Literature of Mysticism by >St. John of the Cross'. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12671 From: Mark D Williams Subject: The Attention of God JJ wrote: "How can we say that God's attention is on the human kingdom when the lower kingdoms seem to require such high intelligence just to maintain the status quo? "Hint: Think software." The first thing that popped into my mind was that the lower kingdoms were on a form of autopilot. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12672 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: The Attention of God Hi Folks, It would seem to me that if we were to equate the human mind to the "software" which operates the human body or "hardware", then we can see that if the software is written correctly, that it would then cause the hardware to operate at peak efficiency, and in the exact way that the "manufacturer" (Creator) intended. So that if God's attention is focused on the human kingdom at this time, it is for the purpose of renewing the human mind to its proper function. The reason that this would be of tantamount importance, is that when the mind of humankind becomes properly aligned to the Mind of God, the effect will be felt in every kingdom that exists below us. Thus all of the physical universe will attain maximum benefit by the Master programming (Mind of God) entering into the physical universe, by way of the renewed Mind of Mankind. Well, it's a start, anyway. :) Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12673 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Attention of God Loving greetings, JJ: "How can we say that God's attention is on the human kingdom when the lower kingdoms seem to require such high intelligence just to maintain the status quo? Hint: Think software." Zia: Oh I just love this question!! I used to always explain God and humanity with computers since I entered into computer software development so long ago in its infancy!! Back in those, DOS was like God... it was the operating system that had all the controls of everything built into it. It ran all the programs and only let you know with error messages if something was going wrong or not working!! All the lower kingdoms (to human) have specific programs they run to, and basically appear to be in repetition or duplication mode, and only if a higher kingdom makes a program change can it become effective, and will then be duplicated throughout that lower kingdom. So humanity is the kingdom in which it becomes apparent and possible for program changes. We are the interface with intelligence between God and the lower kingdoms. In a sense we are the programmers, not the original programmer, but the enhancer, because modifications and improvements are what ongoing life is all about. When the molecule is created then perhaps we are God/programmers with instantaneous effects, rather than the filtered down function occurring presently. GOD, DOS is still the overall controller, and determines whether something can actually be done, that it is within the 'systems' kingdoms abilities!! I also understood through programming that this is exactly how the mind works, and just as there are programs that run in background mode with computers, so too do programs run in background mode within human beings, our heart, lungs, digestion etc. And in all kingdoms then this must be true! By our wonderful law of correspondence. Gosh I could have alot of fun with this... we are all windows in the Windows program!! LOL Windows to God!! Hahahaha We all have access to the original program and in oneness will be able to enhance that program, becoming Master Programmers!! I love it! Thus as in some great book somebody said 'We will have dominion over all things'... not exact quotation!! Loving servant of God, ZIA PS one flaw comes to mind, if God at the highest level is so simple, how DID the complex programs of minerals, plants and animals get created?? Is God all so simple at the highest level, or is God the greatest complexity of ALL??? Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12674 From: xavier Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences J J Dewey writes: "This would mean that we could not be an atom on a pimple of someone's giant nose. "Now there is another correspondence that indicates that we are on the right track here and that is this. We are created in the image of God. In other words, we are the reflections of God. Using this correspondence between man and God we can find out about ourselves by finding out about God. On the other hand, we can find out about God by looking at ourselves. "To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time?" As Samu put it, the universe is in its expansion phase, akin to the development of the cells of the embryo. Organization comes later. On another scale, you said that on Earth, currently, the focus is put on Humanity. Your giant pimple question was too obvious, the way you asked it, maybe that's why no one answered? We only had to add 2 and 2, no fun. And we were delayed in karma land lol. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12675 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Attention of God Loving Greetings, It occurs to me that God's kingdom is the 'smallest of ALL', and thus the most complex. Something about God and All the Spirits, fitting on to the head of a pin??? Where did that come from? If this makes no sense please discard rapidly!! Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12676 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: The Attention of God Zia I loved that post. I tend to see everything as a computer analogy, and usually refer to the Mind as Operational Software. As I sit here programming in Java, you brought so many memories back. I've been thinking the same things the last few days. I've spent over a month just building the foundation for this plan I'm working on. It seems like it spent months fermenting in the Void, before presenting itself. Then I spent weeks building a working skeletal structure, yet I could see the whole at the same time. Yesterday morning I told Brenda it was going to be a tough day, but I had it all planned out what I intended to accomplish for the day. Then I came back to the office and in one hour had completed my goals for the day. Everything else just started to fall into place, piece by piece so naturally. It was because the foundation was in place, and I could place one pointed attention in the present moment on each aspect as choose. It's so easy now to go back a tweak out a previous version of something, especially the closer I come to the whole in physical form. Every time I read DOS in your post I cringed, it's an old habit. If I remember correctly Joseph Campbell said Computers where like an Old Testament God, full of rules, and no mercy. With the Computer Technology we have today it would seem that as the Human Computer our evolving Software affords us a dramatically growing understanding, and a lot more room for Mercy. User Friendly, Ha! Bottom line, to be able to give our one pointed attention to a specific aspect, the foundation it's built upon must be built on solid ground, and in effect the Whole has to be self sustaining or as Mark said something akin to automatic pilot, or the autonomic nervous system. OK my breaks over. Your Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12677 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Attention of God Loving Greetings, John WK I am glad you enjoyed my post... I enjoyed writing it and thinking about it too!! WJK: Every time I read DOS in your post I cringed, it's an old habit. If I remember correctly Joseph Campbell said Computers where like an Old Testament God, full of rules, and no mercy. With the Computer Technology we have today it would seem that as the Human Computer our evolving Software affords us a dramatically growing understanding, and a lot more room for Mercy. User Friendly, Ha! Zia: I found this so funny because I have to agree with you now, and yet I also realize that DOS is still there in WINDOWS, it was the foundation!! God doesn't disappear, seems he gets built upon!!! Well done with you creating your day, tweaking and improving systems, and isn't 'programming' just a buzz for giving us a sense of accomplishment!! It is seen and tangible!! I so agree that when we put the real effort into the creation, the effect, its picturing into physical reality is just a breeze. From what I read Nikola Tesla was a profound expert at visualizing his very complex machinery systems in his mind, never putting anything on paper, even running them completely in his mind until absolute success, and consequently his machines always operated perfectly first go according to the tests of his mind. Now that is a profound and powerful mind!! Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12678 From: "D.O.O.R." Subject: God I Am May I suggest, you each consider the following 10 minute verbal message by Peter O'Erbe, Author of a book titled: God I Am found at: http://www.newresonance.com/playsound.htm .......Pablo Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12679 From: Brain Weis Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Zia writes: "we are all windows in the Windows program!! LOL Windows to God!! Hahahaha" Microsoft Windows is the work of the Dark Brotherhood. Wouldn't Light-Workers prefer open source, like LINUX? : ) ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12680 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences Paul: "Whichever concept we use, such as transcending, mastering or wielding or the like all it means is one idea, namely, awareness, the key idea in human evolution. We evolve by becoming increasingly aware of first the simultaneity of cause and effect and then their oneness. Our point of departure being perception of cause and effect as separate from each other." Zia: "Yes well said here Paul, the awareness of our mind, as opposed to the subsequent awareness of the body sensing in physicality is what I am seeing. It is as though we are cut-off from our mind initially and only perceive through the physical. Thus we have no idea initially where events are coming from! The great awareness is at a mind level, that's where awareness really occurs, and even in experiencing the physical it is really experienced in the mind. So the physical is like a second opportunity, slowed down in time for us to experience. Even to separate the physical experience in time is based upon a belief system... and in that understanding of 'simultaneity of cause and effect and then their oneness' that must become physically as well." Hi Zia and everyone, Well elaborated, Zia. It is true that time in succession as experienced in the physical body is also a belief. For body consciousness is the same consciousness that is manifested in a variety of ways on different levels. Whether spirit consciousness, soul consciousness, mind consciousness, emotion consciousness or body consciousness: these are all consciousness without succession, beginning and end. Our goal is to be aware of all forms of consciousness to finally be consciousness. Paul: "Before being fully aware of the oneness of cause and effect we would still be subject to illusion, such as the belief of ring-pass-not or travel through time minute by minute and so forth." Zia: "Thus what you say here, is my struggle of expression above. God's Will in Action, is God's thoughts cause, outpicturing effects through myself being the servant of God. This occurs in the NOW, thus no separation between God's thought cause (received) and my body's action effect. Willing to undertake God's Plan and live that without interference is profound to me." To willingly live out God's thought by our action in the simultaneous NOW and without separation perceived anywhere is profound indeed. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12681 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Loving Greetings, Brian Weis writes: "we are all windows in the Windows program!! LOL Windows to God!! Hahahaha" "Microsoft Windows is the work of the Dark Brotherhood. Wouldn't Light-Workers prefer open source, like LINUX? : ) ~B." Well score another ONE to the Light making the best use of the Dark Brotherhood's supposed creation, for it has linked up so many souls of the Light, and allowed us all to share.... and it is interesting to note that Bill Gates is 'turning towards the light' in my humble opinion for he is now consciously giving on quite a grand scale, putting computers etc into schools and libraries, and learning the value of giving, and perhaps this will be the balance. Also the think tank group that made millions out of microsoft and left, meet and plan out wonderful charitable uses in which they oversee computers in the community, as I saw on one program, one of their meetings and was quite impressed. I am disappointed with blanket statements that something is 'of the dark brotherhood'. I see particularly in the computer industry many enlightened ones, using their wealth to help their sisters and brothers. It is just a matter of that expanding to me. The 'free' systems may be a wealthy one's opportunity to give back, money per se is not evil to me, nor is wealth. How it is used and what individual and community growth that it provides, now that is to be evaluated. Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12682 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Zia writes: "I am disappointed with blanket statements that something is 'of the dark brotherhood'." I'm sorry, I could have sworn my tags were working in my last post. : ) ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12683 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Loving greetings, Forgive me Brian, I guess I was a little obtuse and didn't get the joke, no hard feelings!!:) Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12684 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Brian Weis wrote: "I'm sorry, I could have sworn my tags were working in my last post." Not to worry ~B, I got the joke. :) Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12685 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Zia writes: "Forgive me Brian, I guess I was a little obtuse and didn't get the joke, no hard feelings!!:)" Nothing to forgive, of course. No hard feelings here. Just as the words "of the dark brotherhood" set you off, so too I am sure that: (a) Some Windows diehards were offended that I badmouthed the system (b) Other Open Source loyalists were peeved that I only mentioned LINUX (c) A few of our not-as-computer-literate folks were miffed because they did not know what "open source" was nor that there were other operating systems available. (d) a couple Mac enthusiasts were ticked that MS Windows yet again got some free press while their system was apparently ignored. (e) a handful of keysters might have been perturbed that I tried to interject any humour during the current discourse. and, the most dire consequence of all (f) members of the Light Works political party are now planning to sue me for using their party name without the proper copyright notice. Oh, and I think I've offended McKenzie Phillips. I'm just not sure how I did that....at least not THIS time... : ) ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12686 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Law of Correspondences: Question? JJ: Now what does this tell us? This leads us to a very interesting conclusion and that is this. Our universe would be the largest organized body in existence and if there are other universes there is no organization that exists between them. There may be at some far future time, but at present the organization of God ends at the universe level. This would mean that we could not be an atom on a pimple of someone's giant nose. Judes: I see by your explanation that this seems to be the case: Organization or complexity decreases toward the higher levels/kingdoms. But..could not this organization or complexity be evolving through the levels?..so that eventually the order of the universal level is as organized as say the atomic level? Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12687 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Law of Correspondences I am a little behind..but catching up..so I am still back on this part: JJ: To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time? Judes: Obviously the human kingdom evolving into its molecular structure. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12688 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Cosmic surprise! Judes: "Obviously the human kingdom evolving into its molecular structure." I wanted to add that my feeling is that this particular 'focus' by the Source of All [which is coming into fruition ever so over the last 2000 earth-years] was a grand secret know only to those very intimate with the Source [by soul-contact] i.e. AOD and Yoesus [weird this came out this way..so I will leave it]. And I feel is causing a lot of controversy in the cosmos[like we recently had going on here]. In both hierarchies and , of course, especially the Dark Brotherhood. Like I said before..I think this may be WHY so much emphasis in being put on us by higher realms from both hierarchies and why the Dark one is soooooo upset about it all. LOL Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12689 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: CONGRATULATIONS!!! not to clog or anything..but Congrats are in order...Great going..Brian! Love: Judes List Archive keys-l: /2000-09/12690 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: "Windows to God" ~B wrote: "(b) Other Open Source loyalists were peeved that I only mentioned LINUX "(b2) should read: Samu was a little miffed about the fact that ~B never mentioned that the father of Linux, Linus Torvalds, is a Finn." Got ya ~B-dude!!! ;D :D Cheers, Samu :) chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12691 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: "Windows to God" LOL. And I was offended because no Kiwi's were mentioned. A gross oversight that I will learn to forgive in time. Love Gutted Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who are good with words, and those who are... erm... thingy Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12692 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Attention of God Great analogies ..everybody! Since I work in the computer industry NOW [wish it was the past- LOL]..it hurts my brain to think or write about it..because I spend so much of my time there and this list gets me away from it! But..all the analogies everyone gave are right-on! I was wondering though if DNA has anything to do with being the software program? heard this somewhere..all right..yes Zia..from Ramtha..hehe. Give him some credit for that thought ..anyway. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12693 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: "Windows to God" Loving greetings, Oh my goodness Brian, you have really done it this time!! That's a great laugh for today!! I must say I was really remiss in not applying the current lesson 'Law of Correspondences' for had I done that before writing, I would have instantly realized the joke, because my friend you 'always tell jokes' and they are always appreciated by at least me (until this one!! guess it was on me!!), so my kind advice to all is, before posting check the law of correspondences and see if that is also intact and applicable to your post!!! (I can see the good in anything!! This is definitely ON TOPIC!!) Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12694 From: Claire Subject: Re: The Attention of God Message From: (J J Dewey "How can we say that God's attention is on the human kingdom when the lower kingdoms seem to require such high intelligence just to maintain the status quo? "Hint: Think software. "What pops into my mind is "program". God couldn't possibly pull all the strings necessary for every human, plant, animal and mineral to function properly, so (s)he must have written a program that runs everything, like DOS, only LOS (life operating system), which runs in the background, running all the automatic functions. We must be the ones who keep adding programs to our system, which clogs up the works and makes us "run out of memory" or have a glitch." Claire o:) Cause and Effect, sometimes referred to as karma, simply stated, means that all things in our life are a direct result of our own actions, thoughts, and motives. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12695 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences JJ, The "universe" as you correspond with in the following, if I am not mistaken, is the physical universe that we measure and quantify with our five limiting senses. The relationships between your definition of galaxies seems narrow to me. It is fairly obvious today that we live, not in a universe, but an omniverse, most all of which remains undetected to human senses. How many dimensions is probably a better question than how many galaxies or universes. I do not follow your logic in suggesting that as things get bigger they possess less relationship. We know, for instance, that there is invisible, undetected as yet, energy which permeates the physical universe. However, we do not know the extent to which this omniverse is in communication with itself. Logic would dictate that EVERYTHING is perfectly intertwined at all dimensional levels, including the infinite, of which we may not yet comprehend. I doubt that to say our universe "is the largest" has any meaning to the realms that deal on the macroscopic. A question that we ignorant humans would ask is, what will happen to us and our gods if a more intelligent and powerful god encountered our universe? "Big" or "larger" means nothing to this god since s/he can literally manifest "any verse" that pleases it. Might this omnipotent being be amused or angered by our uniqueness. Obviously, this is not a meaningful question to these advanced beings, or we would not exist. The law of correspondences would suggest that our God, is in reality, a society of Gods. It would also suggest that our God is using the law of correspondences to grasp "their" God and reality. Are there 199 gods on an e-mail list contemplating their existence. Are our gods attempting to develop their "sixth sense" as we are? I believe that we can only apply the law of correspondences to god if we are in an incredibly aware state of knowing here. More than just "physical" comparisons are required. In fact, if their ways are not our ways, then how can we talk about intelligently? Don't we have to intuit these things? Love, Craig "Groups of galaxies are simpler still with a very loose organization where the center is difficult to determine. Following this correspondent out to the universe itself we would have (as we said earlier) a very young universe with a very elementary shape,." Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12696 From: Claire Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences I am going to be really bold here and say what Jesus said: "Know ye not that ye are Gods?" We speak of "God" as someone or something outside ourselves, separate, when, in fact, WE are God. We think and it comes into existence. We speak, and it comes into existence. The very word "universe": Uni Verse. One verse is all it took in the beginning. "And God said....." One verse was spoken that started it all. We still speak verses, and we start our next creation. When one reaches high enough into the soul one meets the Creator: "I and my Father are one". BUT. Did I create myself? Or was I created? Haven't intuited that yet. We're probably all matter spewed into the air when THE creator popped the zit on the end of its nose. Claire o:) Cause and Effect, sometimes referred to as karma, simply stated, means that all things in our life are a direct result of our own actions, thoughts, and motives. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12697 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences "Question: Now everyone says that the number of creations are infinite, but because everyone believes this does not make it true. "Does the Law of Correspondences suggest that there is a certain number to all things including the worlds within the universe of universes? "First we might say that in all creations that we have been able to examine that there is always a specific number of units within its body. There is a specific number of electrons and protons in each atom. There is a specific number of atoms in each molecule. There is a specific number of molecules in each human body. There are a specific number of humans on the planet and there are a specific number of planets and stars within a galaxy. Using the Law of Correspondences we can then assume that there would be a specific number of galaxies in the universe. Susan gave a great scripture in this direction where God said: "The worlds are without number unto man but they are numbered unto me." If this scripture is true then their is a specific number of worlds known only to God." As far as our current knowledge about the physical reality goes there is a specific number of electrons and protons in each atom and so forth. Would there be nothing to be known beyond electrons and protons in atoms? As our consciousness expands we will be able to know more and more about the structure of atoms. Our application of the law of correspondences being limited we cannot say conclusively that the number of universes is limited. We can only say that we don't know more about the number of creation than we actually know. Number is a concept based on duality. God being one is not dual but in his creation. God therefore knows no number but one which is himself. Number is an evolutional concept involving change. God does not change to be more perfect the way we change to be more perfect. So God does not see number but through us. We count numbers, in other words, not God. "The question that no one answered seriously is: Are we just a small particle in a greater universe so we may just be a part of a pimple on someone's giant nose? Many theoretical scientists have considered this possibility, but they have overlooked one important item in the Law of Correspondences and that is this. As we proceed from the small to the big the maturity of organization decreases. In other words, a solar system is less organized than the human kingdom and humanity is less organized than a cell. As we go up the scale the largest organized bodies mapped by man are galaxies and groups of galaxies. Galaxies are quite simple in organization with the majority of stars gathering in a center and all circling in orbit. "Groups of galaxies are simpler still with a very loose organization where the center is difficult to determine. Following this correspondent out to the universe itself we would have (as we said earlier) a very young universe with a very elementary shape,." The physical appearance of galaxies is the body of great beings. Without spirit a body is not a complete living body. What do we know about the galaxies aside from what we can see through a telescope? Our knowledge is even limited about the world we live in how much more limited would our knowledge about the distant stars be? What could we say about their spiritual life? "Now what does this tell us? This leads us to a very interesting conclusion and that is this. Our universe would be the largest organized body in existence and if there are other universes there is no organization that exists between them. There may be at some far future time, but at present the organization of God ends at the universe level. This would mean that we could not be an atom on a pimple of someone's giant nose." All are one: our universe and other universes. All eminate from the one source branching out indefinitely. All branches are related, being of the same tree. The microcosm is organized because the macrocosm is organized. "Now there is another correspondence that indicates that we are on the right track here and that is this. We are created in the image of God. In other words, we are the reflections of God. Using this correspondence between man and God we can find out about ourselves by finding out about God. On the other hand, we can find out about God by looking at ourselves." As above so below, but not as below so above. We can find out about ourselves by finding out about God. This does not happen but in more advanced individuals. But we cannot find out about all of God by looking at ourselves. We can only find out about some things about God by looking at ourselves. "To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All rights Reserved" God does not focus on any particular point at any time. God focuses on all all the time, if time had to be applied. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12698 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Back to Correspondences "When one reaches high enough into the soul one meets the Creator: "I and my Father are one". BUT. Did I create myself? Or was I created? Haven't intuited that yet. We're probably all matter spewed into the air when THE creator popped the zit on the end of its nose. Claire o:)" Hi Claire and everyone, The concept of creation is separative. Something which did not exist now is made to exist. We were never ever non-existent and suddenly came to be. The truth is that we were, are and will be God ever showing what he is by his alter egos, us. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12699 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: The Attention of God Claire writes: "What pops into my mind is "program". God couldn't possibly pull all the strings necessary for every human, plant, animal and mineral to function properly, so (s)he must have written a program that runs everything, like DOS, only LOS (life operating system), which runs in the background" Methinks we have found another meaning for the pearl (PERL??) of great value mentioned in the scriptures. ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12700 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Subjectless: To Craig Judes, Honestly, it was nothing personal. But I think we're all naive. Of course our egos don't do too well being told that. I love you and hope you will continue your journey inspite of me. Being Scorp, I'm a little surprised I found a chink in your armor! Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12701 From: Rick Audette Subject: More posts than we thought Whew, I started downloading posts from mid Feb. tonight, so we can have more recent posts in the xoom archives. Earlier I had found where the Spiritweb numbering system had reset to 1, during week 18 in 1999. There had been 4268 posts before that, so I will be adding that number to the current posts, in our numbering system. As of tonight we have had 12,700 posts to the Keys of Knowledge list. I am looking for ways to simplify the process and for volunteers to help with the project. Thanks, Rick -- ICQ # 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ The only really natural diet http://www.neanderthin.com have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12702 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Attention of God The Question To discover how God can efficiently create we must look at ourselves. Are we most efficient when we are trying to do many things at one time or when we focus on one thing at a time? If the latter is true then what is the one main point of creation that God is focusing on at this time? Zia answered correctly that the main point of God's attention in this universe (we are talking about the physical universe) is humankind. We talked about points of consciousness earlier and concluded that an increment of conscious awareness for a human being is approximately one second. In other words, it is not a coincidence that the smallest unit of time measurement is a second. In addition to this we concluded that the smallest unit of time required to take in information into the brain is about 1/64th of a second. In other words, we can take in information faster than we can consciously register it. Thus it is that we can only concentrate on one thing at a time with a unit of our consciousness which is one second. Some people who shift back and forth between thoughts within a period of a minute will often claim that they are thinking of several things at a time, but such is not the case. If they had five conscious thoughts within a minute you will find that each of those thoughts were had one at a time within the period of that minute. Now the success of any individual in accomplishing a goal is to focus enough of those one second units of attention on that goal to propel it into reality. If you have five easy goals you can propel them to consummation with divided attention, but if you have a difficult goal you will have to focus all the units of attention tat you have available to make it successful. I have found this to be the case in starting a business for instance. Because I have been a dreamer I have always had the disadvantage of having many things before me competing for my attention or units of consciousness. When I have started a business and did not devote all my available attention to it then it always failed. But the times I have succeeded I focused all my attention on the project. Initiation, even of a business, takes about all the attention that can be called forth. When I started my current business I realized through past experience that I would have to put aside many of my metaphysical interests to get it going and indeed it did take our full attention for some period. Fortunately, when I started writing the book and later teaching in the keys list the business was launched and I was able to glide along on automatic pilot business wise. For the past three years we have had almost the same annual gross. The reason, of course, that business hasn't grown is that it is on automatic pilot because now my attention is diverted because of the book and my teaching on the list. Often during the day, even when I am talking to clients I am thinking about the work and what I may write about when evening comes. Now if I had been wise enough to create a larger business with employees and an good manager I could have duplicated myself and, after it was self sufficient, appointed the manager to run things for me. In this case I could have withdrawn all my attention from the business and concentrate on initiating something else. This will work as long as I have picked a good manager who is able to take my place. On a higher level the One God has the same problems that we do. If He/She/It were to divide Its attention too much then creation would not be successful. In eons past the attention and consciousness of God perfected the quarks, the atoms, the molecules, and the living cells which comprise our bodies. As some of you mentioned this was comparable to us perfecting a computer program. It takes a great deal of attention to perfect a program but when you finally get it performing the way you want you can take your attention off it and concentrate on duplicating your creation and also using it as a foundation for higher programs. Many want us to believe that God still has his attention in the atoms, cells etc and this is what keeps them going, but think of it. If we could force God to keep his attention on such mechanical perfection it would be condemning our Creator to the greatest hell within our imagination. After you have created a computer program would you want to keep your attention on, it going over how it works from beginning to end over and over? Or worse still would you like to be overseeing its performance and continually checking to make sure all goes well? Of course, not. We are happy to let the creation go forth and then we receive happiness in shifting our attention to a new challenge. This is what eternal Becoming is all about. We copy the Creator and perfect something on one level, send it off on automatic pilot to forever bless the whole and then shift our attention on a greater good. Thus we see that the worlds below man are pretty much on automatic pilot and may only need a minor check for bugs every million years or so. This frees up the attention of God to apply his Intelligence upon the soul of the universe which are lives related to human intelligence which are the conscious reflections of the present intelligence of God. Someone said that the Law of Correspondences applies from the higher to the lower, but not from the lower to the higher. I submit that this idea is founded on illusion and an illustration in proven reality cannot be produced. For example a small circle corresponds to a larger circle. They both correspond to each other, the only difference being that one is larger than the other. But the key point is that in this, and all other examples that can be cited, the lower corresponds to the higher in the same measure that the higher corresponds to the lower. If an atom has similarities to a solar system then a solar system has similarities to an atom. If Middle C has a similar resonance to a higher C then the higher C has the same similar resonance to Middle C. Craig has some comments that probably should be covered as we pursue the subject of man being the focal point of God. He said: "It is fairly obvious today that we live, not in a universe, but an omniverse, most all of which remains undetected to human senses. How many dimensions is probably a better question than how many galaxies or universes." JJ Some call the six other planes of existence dimensions. Some refer to other dimensions as something even beyond these. Now one can take any light obtained by the Law of Correspondences and diffuse it by declaring there are unlimited mysteries that we do not understand, and therefore we cannot depend on what reasoning and discovery will reveal to us. This is what the authoritative religions have done to us over the millennia. They have told us things like: "Do not even try to understand God because He is unknowable." This makes it blasphemy to even try. Yet the scriptures tell us that we are reflections of God and as reflections we can understand God by understanding ourselves. "This is eternal life to know God..." We have to begin somewhere in our discovery of knowledge. We must take the things that fit and work and build upon them. As we do so we will discover our errors and drop them while keeping that which works. So yes, it is true that there are many things in the universe and omniverse that we do not yet understand, but there are also many things that we can understand. We must take those concepts we can understand and build upon them then eventually we will comprehend all things. Craig: "I do not follow your logic in suggesting that as things get bigger they possess less relationship. We know, for instance, that there is invisible, undetected as yet, energy which permeates the physical universe." JJ As I said there are many things we do not know and of course many energies we cannot see or detect. Yet all causes have effects and the lesser organizations in the larger worlds would indicate a lesser interplay of unseen forces also. Craig "However, we do not know the extent to which this omniverse is in communication with itself. Logic would dictate that EVERYTHING is perfectly intertwined at all dimensional levels, including the infinite, of which we may not yet comprehend." JJ I would say that logic tells us just the opposite. Now many traditions from authoritative religions have stressed the perfection of God so they can better control their peoples by stressing that the prophet, priest or king is God's perfect mouthpiece for the perfect God and therefore must be "perfectly" followed. We are created in the "image" of God and yet each of us are far from perfect. This itself is a witness that all lives up the ladder including any that we would name God is still progressing toward Its own relative perfection. So if we take all things into consideration, the seen and the unseen as the creations of God play out on the physical plane it is a fact beyond dispute that there is much greater perfection in the microcosm than the macrocosm. Atoms, molecules, and cells are much closer to perfect in their organization and complexity than is humanity. Humanity does not currently have a correspondence to a molecule in organization let alone a cell which is millions of times as complex. Now let us look higher up at the stars. The stars do not yet have an organization as complex as a human city. They do have relationship, but they are simple relationships and even these relationships are created more though the interplay of advanced lives who have passed through the human kingdom rather than that of the actual solar life force itself. Then as I said earlier the next step is in groups of galaxies and these have been mapped b y astronomers and these groups have an even lesser organization than do the stars within a galaxy. The fact is this. This are observable facts. We are not dealing with unknown forces here, but what can be observed by the human eye and that which has been observed bears witness to this principle of evolution proceeding from the lower to the higher as far as size is concerned. Now here is an interesting addition to this evolutionary principle. When the higher order of lives have perfected themselves their complexity and powers will be greater than the perfected lower lives of which they are composed. A cell, for instance is of a higher order than an atom. Man being the next major step up in composite life has higher potential than a cell, but is far from catching up with the organization and intelligence built into the cell. Humans will basically catch up to the cellular evolution when they combine molecularly in units of 144,000. After this occurrence humanity will eventually far surpass the kingdoms below in their own Becoming. Man examining a cell is a little like scientists stumbling across an alien spaceship containing advanced technology far beyond anything oh earth. They take the ship apart and put it together again and finally figure out some of its basic principles. Their first couple ships they make don't work very well, but finally they solve the problems and are able to duplicate the technology. But these adventurers do not stop there. They continue to perfect their work and eventually make ships even better than the alien one. Even so humans will eventually surpass the technology in the human cell because we are reflections of God and are His eyes and ears here in the physical reality. This evolutionary progression will continue until the universe itself is fully organized and when it is completed the complexity, power and glory thereof will be beyond anything we have dreamed of and the perfection of the number seven will be realized paving the way for the greater universe to be built on eight creative rays. Craig: "I believe that we can only apply the law of correspondences to god if we are in an incredibly aware state of knowing here. More than just "physical" comparisons are required. In fact, if their ways are not our ways, then how can we talk about intelligently? Don't we have to intuit these things?" JJ Mankind has had to start with the physical in his quest for knowledge because in the beginning of the search that is all we have. But the physical is a reflection of the Spiritual so by using the Law of Correspondences with the physical we can learn of things spiritual. Then we eventually prove certain spiritual realities to ourselves we can use these principles to gain even further insight through the Law of Correspondences A key piece of knowledge about God that brings us much insight through the Law of Correspondences is the simple statement from Genesis that we are made in the "image" of God. Once we realize we are indeed reflections of God many vistas of discovery open up to us. In a recent post I made the somewhat startling statement that the creations of God are not infinite. I know many will really think I am off base here at first, but bear with me. There is another key word that describes the creations of God. When we examine this key tthese teachings will make much more sense. What do you suppose this word is? Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All rights Reserved Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-28/12703 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: The Attention of God "In a recent post I made the somewhat startling statement that the creations of God are not infinite. I know many will really think I am off base here at first, but bear with me. There is another key word that describes the creations of God. When we examine this key these teachings will make much more sense. What do you suppose this word is?" Manifest. To make visible also to take count of, as in a ships manifest of it's cargo. Rick Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12704 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: The Attention of God "The fact is this. This are observable facts. We are not dealing with unknown forces here, but what can be observed by the human eye and that which has been observed bears witness to this principle of evolution proceeding from the lower to the higher as far as size is concerned." Matter is the lowest point of spirit. Spirit is being manifested by matter. But evolution is being entering a new phase when the threshold is being crossed and spirit is no longer manifested by matter alone or as much as by spirit itself. We are entering a phase of seeing God face to face. What is observed by the human eye is very deluding. We cannot see more than mere appearances. When we deal with laws we cannot use uncertain facts. "Now here is an interesting addition to this evolutionary principle. When the higher order of lives have perfected themselves their complexity and powers will be greater than the perfected lower lives of which they are composed. A cell, for instance is of a higher order than an atom. Man being the next major step up in composite life has higher potential than a cell, but is far from catching up with the organization and intelligence built into the cell. Humans will basically catch up to the cellular evolution when they combine molecularly in units of 144,000. After this occurrence humanity will eventually far surpass the kingdoms below in their own Becoming." Copyright 2000 By J.J. Dewey All rights Reserved God is the macrocosm. He uses his own macrocosmic blueprint as the image by which to create all creatures. A correspondence is found between God's macrocosmic blueprint in relation to man as microcosm and the blueprint of man as macrocosm in relation to cell in his body as microcosm. Evolution starts with involution and microcosm begins with macrocosm. Without man there would be no human cells. The cells are the way they are because they as form is vested with human life infused by the attractive power of the soul. The cells cannot evolve without the initiative of the soul working on all parts of the human being as a whole. One can easily see the consequences if a separative perspective was adopted in applying the law of correspondences as regards the unobservable spirit and the observable matter and as a result the visible body would be looked at all by itself without reference to the invisible life in it. This separative approach is caused by using perceptions of the rational mind without consulting intuitions of the soul. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12705 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: Attention of God Judy Reese wrote: "But..all the analogies everyone gave are right-on! I was wondering though if DNA has anything to do with being the software program? heard this" Sure... problem is we have all these new programmers reading that code and wanting to write "hello world" in DNA. I'm not really sure I like that idea. ;) Then there are problems with memory overruns, bad pointers, etc.. I don't want to see the results of a null pointer exception on a lifeform. ;) Travis Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12706 From: xavier Subject: OT Re: "Windows to God" Gates of hell;-) Well, if the light of today is service and collectiveness, then an open source is a good sign. Big money for the company men is a bad one, sign of old times way. Closed system, pirating user freedom and independence, bad products overall, monopoly, "you buy because we have the power", and not "you may use because our product is good". Anyway what is the aim? computerizing earth? for what aim? Citizen control by the government? The freeware mode is surely a new age way. Hackers are disciples lol;-) Remember, respect of free will and no deception. Microsoft sins on both! :-) Abundantly;-) It is a theocratic structure (with a demon at the top lol). Elected from top down. Whereas Linux and open source mode is like internet : molecular. Cryonize Gates! :-) Microsoft relies on coercive power over users (used, in fact). Open source relies on freedom and quality of the product. A community, not one chief. What about Gates' project to surround the Earth with nasty spy satellites? Hopefully this guy (nerd) is under control;-) Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12707 From: xavier Subject: OT To Jude on compliments An email list works that way. Compliments come late. You enter there, no one says "greetings" well yes, they say "greetings" but after that, it takes a whole lot of time for people to get used to you. You have to bring acceptance to yourself (give it to yourself). In a physical meeting, signs of acceptance are many and ritualized (and too many and too false) On an email list, it is not an open forum (where it is "free for all") yet it is a very loose structure. The truth is that it takes time to build friendship, to build a picture of the guy in front and relate to that picture with safety. Until then, we are relating to a moving changing (unsure) entity. This is insecure, see? Maybe the people that don't give praises are insecure, because you are new here, they don't know you, and they fear. I'm included in it, I have all these feelings and reactions too. You just triggered my healer type and so here goes;-) lol But if you look closely, you can see that I am not relating to you either, just to the picture I have made of you, that is myself. Yes that can be the key point. Do we welcome the other, or just the projections of our self? If it is the Other, then praises and compliments are free and natural. If self is in the way, then they are late, they only come when we have replaced the strange feelings of the other by projections of our selves;-) Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12708 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: reflections of God Paul: But we cannot find out about all of God by looking at ourselves. We can only find out about some things about God by looking at ourselves. Judes: Socrates said "Know Thyself"..as the path to Enligtenment. Why would he and Plato say that? Because of the Law of Correspondences. One thing about laws, Paul,..one they are discovered intuitively..then to accept their veracity..then by virtue of being a law ..the law applies. Sorry..sometimes your 'words' sound good ..yes..sometimes they are right-on and then sometimes they 'twang'. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12709 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Subjectless: to Craig Craig, well..You found my chink..although unwittingly and innocently. The 'chink' is that [realized this yesterday] is that I am always trying to 'prove' myself..must be something form my childhood. LOL How liberating to free myself from that. Thanks for being part of my self-realization-thingy. Love: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12710 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Attention of God JJ: In a recent post I made the somewhat startling statement that the creations of God are not infinite. I know many will really think I am off base here at first, but bear with me. There is another key word that describes the creations of God. When we examine this key these teachings will make much more sense. What do you suppose this word is? Judes: We are a microcsm [human] of the macrocosm [omniuniverse] AND a macrocosm [Gods] of the microcosm [singularity]. We are God..God is us..I am you..you are me. All is one ..One is All. Perfect synchronism and mechanics..like a clockwork. Music of the Spheres. And the Great Work [Opus]..Keyword: Harmony. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12711 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Attention of God: keyword change Oh..Oh..I want to change my keyword choice to 'hologram". Love: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12712 From: Mark D Williams Subject: Keyword Purposeful. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12713 From: Paul Yu Subject: : reflections of God Paul: "But we cannot find out about all of God by looking at ourselves. We can only find out about somethings about God by looking at ourselves." Judes: "Socrates said "Know Thyself"..as the path to Enligtenment. Why would he and Plato say that? Because of the Law of Correspondences. One thing about laws, Paul,..one they are discovered intuitively..then to accept their veracity..then by virtue of being a law ..the law applies. Sorry..sometimes your 'words' sound good ..yes..sometimes they are right-on and then sometimes they 'twang'." Hi Judes, Thyself is a reflection of the one idea which is God. By intuiting Thyself you see that idea and by seeing that idea you see God. This oneness of divine idea with its reflections is the foundation of the law of correspondences. All beings are partial reflections of the one idea. The endless adding up of reflections can never equal the one idea. By finding more about ourself we would know more about God, but that would be an endless process. Which means we can never evolve to a final point by having all the knowledge about God. As below so above then is a qualified version of as above so below. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12714 From: "Stardancer" Subject: Re: Attention of God "There is another key word that describes the creations of God. When we examine this key these teachings will make much more sense. What do you suppose this word is?" Could it be synchronous: Working, moving, or occurring together at the same rate and at the proper time. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12715 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: The Attention of God Hello Folks, This will be a rather odd post for me to write, as even from the inception of this list, the number of times that I have taken exception to JJ's teachings could most probably be counted on one hand. And even now I am aware that some will bear with me as I examine these things from a critical viewpoint, while others will say in utter horror, "you blaspheeeeeeeme". :) But I thank God that I will not be writing this to gain the approval of either group. But for the consideration of all. J J Dewey wrote: "Now if I had been wise enough to create a larger business with employees and an good manager I could have duplicated myself and, after it was self sufficient, appointed the manager to run things for me. In this case I could have withdrawn all my attention from the business and concentrate on initiating something else. This will work as long as I have picked a good manager who is able to take my place." I like this analogy, JJ. As I see it, it corresponds very well to the act of Creation, as it has been told in countless writings, each relying on its own analogy which spoke volumes to the people of those times. I'd imagine that if this story were to be retold using your chosen analogy, it might read something like this: In the beginning, God created the business and all of its components. But the business was without direction so God created a business plan, and filled his business with many employees, each after their own kind until the until all of the offices were full. And God saw that it was good. But then God said to himself, let us make a manager after our own image, so that he can have dominion over the business. So he created a "Joe" and gave him dominion over the whole business and over all the employees in their given fields. But then God said, it is not good that Joe should run the business alone, for God knew that no man could run a business properly without a woman at his side, so he created a "Sheila" to be Joe's assistant manager. And God saw that it was good. And God visited the office day after day and walked with his managers throughout the building, and talked over the business plan with Joe and Sheila. And he told them that they could use the business to branch out into any area they chose, except for the direction of franchise incorporation. He told them that on the day they chose to do this, they would surely be no longer fit to run his business, and on that day, they would be fired and they would be run out of the office building. But then one day, a disgruntled manager from God's postal operation came to Sheila and convinced her that God would not fire them if they sold a franchise or two, for this is surely how God ran his other business interests. So Sheila, wanting to run things the way God did, sold out to one franchisee. And Joe likewise, following Sheila's advice, also sold another part of the business to another franchisee. But when God saw the evil thing that they had done with his business, he went to the office and fired them both, and ran them out of the building, just as he had said. But God, not wanting to see his former managers unemployed, gave them both jobs at the entry level of a new business that he was planning, and promised them that if they would work hard, and through that work bear much profit so that it funded the whole business, that he would surely one day come and make them managers again over a new business, and a new plan. Now, stepping back out of storytelling mode, it seems as if through the principle of correspondence, there is so far no real exception to be taken with JJ's analogy. But then JJ goes on to say: "On a higher level the One God has the same problems that we do. If He/She/It were to divide Its attention too much then creation would not be successful. In eons past the attention and consciousness of God perfected the quarks, the atoms, the molecules, and the living cells which comprise our bodies." Ok, now it seems that we have taken a bit of a detour. Although it's a bit of a stretch, I will concede the possibility that on some level, God has the "same problems that we do". And even that "In eons past the attention and consciousness of God perfected the quarks, the atoms, the molecules, and the living cells which comprise our bodies". And in accord with our analogy, this may correspond well with God creating the "business and its components". But it would seem that somewhere along the line, a glitch entered into the components that has caused a number of difficulties, to which any one of us can attest. And unless we are willing to believe that within the perfection of the quarks, atoms, cells and molecules, God built in cancer, disease, infection and death, then we must at least consider the possibility that these anomalies correspond to the "curse" which has entered into the creation, as has been included in so many of our most ancient writings. But then, JJ continues: "As some of you mentioned this was comparable to us perfecting a computer program. It takes a great deal of attention to perfect a program but when you finally get it performing the way you want you can take your attention off it and concentrate on duplicating your creation and also using it as a foundation for higher programs." Ok, switching analogies, let's say that God perfected the "program", or the activity of the molecular, cellular, atomic and subatomic particles that run in the background continuously. But if, as in the case of the human experience, we are each almost always being subjected to "illegal operation" and ultimately "fatal error" messages, then once again, we must consider that God's "perfected program" must contain within it a great flaw that all but guarantees that we will have to "shut down" and "reboot". Or "die" and "reincarnate". And unless we are willing to believe that God intended that his "perfect program" should ultimately fail, we might again have to consider the possibility that a glitch was introduced into this formerly perfect platform. "Many want us to believe that God still has his attention in the atoms, cells etc and this is what keeps them going, but think of it. If we could force God to keep his attention on such mechanical perfection it would be condemning our Creator to the greatest hell within our imagination." Ahhh. Now here is a place that we meet again in agreement. Although the idea of "forcing God" may be a poor choice of words, I would agree that being forced to apply our attention on these lower orders, such as the "molecular" order, might just be the greatest "hell" we could ever imagine. "After you have created a computer program would you want to keep your attention on, it going over how it works from beginning to end over and over? Or worse still would you like to be overseeing its performance and continually checking to make sure all goes well? Of course, not. " Of course not. But as we have seen in our two analogies so far, there seems that a "virus" has infiltrated the perfect operation of the perfect program. Otherwise, we would, in fact, have no need to place the attention of our "doctors" or "program troubleshooters" upon correcting the problems which still seem to keep us from the "happiness" that JJ mentions here: "We are happy to let the creation go forth and then we receive happiness in shifting our attention to a new challenge. This is what eternal Becoming is all about. We copy the Creator and perfect something on one level, send it off on automatic pilot to forever bless the whole and then shift our attention on a greater good." Of course, if this were the case, that we had a perfected lower order which was running on autopilot, without the annoyance of cellular breakdown and ultimately death, we would surely be at liberty to fully switch our attention onto some greater good. But the last time I checked, we still hadn't fully experienced the resultant perfection that a perfect program would surely afford us. We are still subject to the illegal operation and fatal error messages that have bemoaned the human race since the introduction of that nasty virus. "Thus we see that the worlds below man are pretty much on automatic pilot and may only need a minor check for bugs every million years or so." And so it might take a million years or so before we have a cure for the common cold? "This frees up the attention of God to apply his Intelligence upon the soul of the universe which are lives related to human intelligence which are the conscious reflections of the present intelligence of God." Now THIS is a mighty leap of faith. Although I certainly agree that God has his attention upon the mind of humankind, or its "intelligence", I can only hope that humankind's intelligence is a LOUSY reflection of God's intelligence. Or else we might have to concede that for the most part, God is as dumb as dirt. For even amongst the best minds of humankind, we have yet to find even one which could create "matter" out of "energy", for instance, which is at least one of the hallmarks of the intelligence of God. "Someone said that the Law of Correspondences applies from the higher to the lower, but not from the lower to the higher." Yes, I believe that was Craig. And an astute observation that is. "I submit that this idea is founded on illusion and an illustration in proven reality cannot be produced. " Oh? I wouldn't be so sure. :) "For example a small circle corresponds to a larger circle. They both correspond to each other, the only difference being that one is larger than the other. But the key point is that in this, and all other examples that can be cited, the lower corresponds to the higher in the same measure that the higher corresponds to the lower." If only every example of correspondence were this simple, I would certainly agree with this point. "If an atom has similarities to a solar system then a solar system has similarities to an atom. If Middle C has a similar resonance to a higher C then the higher C has the same similar resonance to Middle C." Well, now this is something of which we might produce that illustration in proven reality that JJ called impossible and illusory. Let's use a familiar instrument like a piano. Let's say that we walk up to that piano and strike the key which produces the note, middle C. What may not be readily known to many is that the note "middle C", when it is sounded, does not only produce the pure tone, "middle C", but also an entire series of tones above it which are called "overtones". This is a measurable and quantifiable fact in proven reality. And within this series of overtones, what will also be produced will be the "higher C" that JJ mentions. Yet, if we were to walk up to that same piano and strike the key which produces that "higher C", it too would produce a series of "overtones" above it, but it would NOT produce the lower note, "middle C". So that although the one note, "middle C", can be said to contain the resonance of the "higher C", that same "higher C" would NOT contain the resonance of the lower "middle C". Similarly, when we consider that God is the basis, or "bass note", of all creation, when we "know God", or "hear the bass note", we can in fact with some training, "hear the resonance of God in the 'overtones' of ALL creation". But to say that we can "know God", or "hear the bass note", by listening to one or more of those "overtones" within the creation, even if it is a pure octave, or a perfect reflection of that same bass note in another octave (humans for instance), THIS in fact would be an illusion, or at best, an inaccurate use of the law of correspondence. (snip) "Now one can take any light obtained by the Law of Correspondences and diffuse it by declaring there are unlimited mysteries that we do not understand, and therefore we cannot depend on what reasoning and discovery will reveal to us. "This is what the authoritative religions have done to us over the millennia. They have told us things like: "Do not even try to understand God because He is unknowable." This makes it blasphemy to even try." And once again, we find ourselves on common ground. "Yet the scriptures tell us that we are reflections of God and as reflections we can understand God by understanding ourselves. "This is eternal life to know God..." I would think that to cement this position, the scripture you used might say, "This is eternal life, to know OURSELVES". But if the "bass note"/"overtones" illustration holds truee, and according to Pythagoru it does, then to attempt to know God by only knowing ourselves, would be to not know the basis, or "bass note", of all things at all, which is God. (snip) "We are created in the "image" of God and yet each of us are far from perfect. This itself is a witness that all lives up the ladder including any that we would name God is still progressing toward Its own relative perfection. 'So if we take all things into consideration, the seen and the unseen as the creations of God play out on the physical plane it is a fact beyond dispute that there is much greater perfection in the microcosm than the macrocosm. "Atoms, molecules, and cells are much closer to perfect in their organization and complexity than is humanity. Humanity does not currently have a correspondence to a molecule in organization let alone a cell which is millions of times as complex." In relation to this, I'd like to continue using the "overtone" model I used above. For this illustration, let's consider that indeed, atoms, molecules and cells are much closer to perfect in organization and complexity than is humanity. This could very well be because each of these lower realms correspond to lower notes on the piano. As such, they would in fact be closer to the original "bass note" of which even these very low worlds are but "overtones" of God's original creation. And yet, as was suggested earlier in this post, there may very well have been a "virus" introduced at this lower octave that has also resonated upward to infect the many other overtones of creation, including humanity. This again is illustrated by the existence of decay and death, which in fact does begin at the basest level of humanity's makeup. But although we, the perfect octave/reflection of God may indeed be infected by this disease, it would NOT mean that God was infected by it, because again, the higher "overtones" of quarks and above, do not produce any tone, or have any effect on any "lower"/more "bass" note. Thus again making the correspondent comparison of human to God an unreliable illustration. Of course there is much more elaboration on JJ's part in the original post. And certainly I could go on with these thoughts, point by point. But as this has already become a very large post, I will stop here. I think that there are plenty of thoughts here already that bear at least some consideration. And although JJ is certainly not required to respond to any of this, if he did choose to add some clarity to these points, I wouldn't want him to have to write another "book" in order to respond. :) So I'll sign off here, hoping that each of you who have read this far have received this with the same spirit of friendship from which it was written. Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12716 From: Lorraine Brutsman Subject: suggested guidelines for the Keysters Organization Hi Keysters, This is as far as I have gotten so far on the guidelines for the Keysters Organization. I just went through the archives and found the stuff that would work for us. This is just an attempt to organize us, it is just guidelines. I hope if you have any suggestions, comments or concerns you will email me personally. I hope this gives you the same feeling of reality that it does me. A feeling of progression, connection and purpose. I love you guys. Lorraine Section 1 How to fill a position and elect a Leader. The power to fill key positions in the Keysters organization will be reversed from corporate America, as we know it. Instead of having this power vested from the top down, it shall be given from the bottom up and shall be applied through a democratic system. Chairmen of each committee or team will be elected by the members of the committee they supervise. An Executive Officer may make a suggestion, or nominate a prospective chairman, but he does not choose who will fill the position. Unlike the businesses of today, the Keysters organization will not wait around for a decree from an executive as to who will fill a vacant position. The position is open to anyone. Any member may either volunteer himself or nominate another. In addition to this, a member from another committee may also volunteer or be nominated. After all the candidates have stepped forward, then the members will hold an election. When one candidate receives more that 50% of the votes then he is the Chairman. Each elected Chairman has to receive a majority of votes from his department to become elected. What happens if four are running and A gets 4 votes, B 4 votes, C 3 votes and D 1 vote? In this case no one received the majority. The solution is quite simple: They select the two with the highest votes, which were A and B, and then vote again. The one with the majority vote will win, unless there was a tie. In case of a tie the winner is picked by an Executive Officer. Only actual performance on the job can determine the qualifications of a leader. Anytime a member feels he can do a better job than the chairperson, he may challenge for his position and call for a vote. The challenge will be accepted and a vote will be held by secret ballot presided over by one of the members of the group. All members should be made aware of the voting outcome. If a challenger is defeated then he must wait at least ninety days before he can issue a new challenge; if the aspiring chairperson is voted in, he will trade places with the current one. The member then becomes a chairperson and the chairperson becomes a member of the same committee. If the now-replaced chairman believes he has been unjustly treated, he can (after a period of ninety days) challenge for his old position. All positions will be offered first to those who want to apply for them. An appointment will only be made when there is no volunteer available. Another method of acquiring leaders will be the principle of "leadership by initiation." To initiate means to begin something. Any member may transfer to a different committee at any time. He should not be denied this choice. He is always free to apply for a transfer, and as long as there is an opening and the new group can accept him by a majority vote, he will be allowed to make the move. If word has it that he is a troublemaker and is not accepted into a new group then he will have to stay where he is. The members have full power to speak his mind without fear of reprisal, for the chairman does not have power to dismiss a member of the committee without the support of the other members. Section 2 Definition of member positions Chairman of a committee The two primary jobs of the chairman are (1) To stimulate the group with ideas, projects, and concepts; and (2) To lead the group to Soul contact to become one in the direction that needs to be taken. If the chairman uses his authority and makes major decisions without taking the group's feelings and thoughts into consideration, then he will be quickly corrected by the outcry of the members. If he makes this mistake a number of times, he can be challenged for leadership and replaced. Executive Officer Any position that requires no committee and works for the benefit of the group as a whole. First level of involvement- The Calling He who wants to participate in the calling will believe that the idea of the Molecule is attractive to him and agrees to support the Twelve Principles of Synthesis. He dedicates all his energies toward the union and equality of all men and women and seeks to prepare the world for the Coming of Christ in whatever way he interprets this event. This person sees himself not as an isolated unit, but as a part of a greater whole, and realizes to some extent that all men and women are interrelated and interdependent. He desires to be one of the Lights to the world and seeks to extend a helping hand to all those who are in need. He seeks to advance in the Light by receiving from other Lights and he seeks to help others advance by sharing his knowledge with others. There are two basic mantras that Molecular members are urged to recite. The first is The Song of the 144,000. The second major mantra was revealed through Alice A. Bailey. This is called The Great Invocation and is said to be uttered by the Christ himself on a daily basis. Second level of involvement- The Disciple Commitment of the Disciple The basic commitment of the disciple is simple. He or she is willing to entirely yield the will of the personality to the higher will of Spirit. This is easy to say but hard to do until the focus of attention has made a definite shift. Then after the shift has been made keeping the focus there becomes easier and easier until it then becomes simple and natural. When this occurs then the disciple would not consider going back to the will of the personality any more than the prodigal son, after he has returned to the Father, would consider returning to eating with the hogs. It is advantageous to put the commitment necessary into words as a point of focus and understanding, but also important that the words not be seen as dogmatic or written in stone. Nevertheless, the basic spirit of the commitment as written is necessary for the creation of successful molecules. The Pledge of the Disciple I commit myself to join you my brothers and sisters as a follower of the Spirit of God and as a disciple of Christ/God in totally dedicating myself to the building of the Kingdom of God on the earth, and preparing the way with the eye of faith for the appearance of the Son of God. To aid in this, I covenant to do all in my power to assist in the materialization of the Molecular Organization on the Earth. I covenant to be one with you by ever seeking the One Spirit of God with you and resolve to solve all differences which may cause separation by seeking an answer and confirmation through the Spirit with you. I covenant to channel all my energies of sex, money and power toward union and not separateness, and consecrate myself and all these energies toward the purpose of God to create the Union of Souls and to establish the Kingdom of God on the Earth. AUMAN. Third level of involvement - Member of a Molecule More information will be revealed as the time gets closer. See Archive postings regarding the Molecular Relationship for more details. Associate member (of an existing Molecule.) An individual or an Adam/Atom may be an associate member of an existing Molecule. When enough associates are available, a new Molecule is created. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12717 From: Lorraine Brutsman Subject: the 12 Principles And for those who haven't heard of the 12 Principles yet, here they are. THE TWELVE PRINCIPLES OF SYNTHESIS 1. We believe in the equality of men and women, the equal rights of each race and in the sacredness of all life. 2. We believe that we have the capacity to see Eye to Eye with each other through the application of the principles of non-deception, open communication and contact of higher intelligence that lies within. 3. We accept the responsibility of maintaining our bodies, emotions and minds in a state of maximum health and vitality. We seek not to hurt but to heal. 4. We believe in the principle of Harmlessness, for when we harm another person, we only harm ourselves. We shall not inhibit, restrain, or oppress the free will or privilege of any individual to explore new concepts and philosophies. 5. We believe in the principle of Free Agency, and that there is a power within that enables us to proceed with purpose and accomplish many great and important works pertaining to the coming Age of Enlightenment. 6. We desire to initiate a New Age of Peace, prosperity and spiritual attainment through the intelligent application of the principles of Love, Knowledge and Wisdom. 7. We acknowledge the Christ-God-Consciousness as the single creative source manifesting through the Universe, and that this Power lies within each one of us. 8. We affirm that the power of Love is the greatest unifying principle and send only the pure Love of Christ/God to all. 9. We believe in the principle of Service, for when we serve one another, we serve ourselves. We retain only that which we have given away. 10. We disclaim all totalitarian and secular controls over our lives, and affirm the power of the people to enjoy a free, democratic society with maximum liberty for the individual. 11. We promote World Peace through the complete elimination of nuclear and doomsday weapons, international aggression, and the eradication of world hunger and poverty. 12. We seek not to be separative and isolated but to unite and join hands with all spiritually- minded groups and individuals who desire to bring Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all Humankind. Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12718 From: Lorraine Brutsman Subject: the virus idea Hi Keysters and most especially John K., I would like to address the virus theme of your story. Remember when God put forth His hand and blocked the way to the Tree of Knowledge "lest they put forth their hand and live forever in their sin"? Well, what that means to me is it was a glorious plan that we would experience many lives on this earth. And to be able to experience many we would need to end one to start another. Death is necessary, so is disease and pain. It is for our experience and joy to be able to know the good from the evil. I think the idea of putting a virus or a flaw into our DNA causing us to "crash" every so often was a great idea. If we had perfect knowledge as God does without being able to control ourselves we would live forever in sin. Experience first, growth we hope. Let me out of this life's contract to be able to start again. I like the idea. I'm not stuck living forever in this life. Did I make any sense at all or do these things sound better in my head? Lorraine Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12719 From: Lorraine Brutsman Subject: one more time Sorry guys, I just HAD to post one more time because I have NEVER posted 4 times in one day and it makes me feel all special inside. *giggling* Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12720 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Macro: Micro: John K John K: I think I finally got you and JWK straight!! I would like to venture into addressing some of your comments before JJ surely does.. because I feel that supporting the Law of Correspondences is relevant to have [hopefully] a consensus on the list that this law is indeed valid. And not to Rah Rah for JJ or support him. I think that [maybe] sometimes I appear to be doing that.. but that is not true and [yes.. little me] would be the FIRST to disagree with JJ..BUT, I seem to have some kind of mind-link to JJ [soul-contact a-blooming] ; as sometimes the thoughts that I have on topics that we discuss here mirror his thoughts [100% so far]..and uncannily are almost word-for-word things that I would say, etc. Weird.. huh? I wanted to say this.. not to bring attention to ME ; but to clarify why my zeal for standing for certain truths here is NOT defending JJ.. but my awareness that a certain truth that JJ is writing about is important.. in that I feel these two laws he is spending so much time with are true and powerful.. as I have experientially applied them[experimentally now for about 2 years] and they work. Like I said IF used righteously ..they both give one power in dealing in the mundane world[business, social] and in applying spiritual attention that then brings FRUITS of the spirit into one's life and revelations [clarity]. The spiritual blessings are 'gifts' are of course the MOST significant and the most valuable. So.. before I continue here.. please know that I am NOT defending JJ.. but instead defending truths that I KNOW to be significant. Now.. where JJ is taking us with them.. I do not know.. maybe someone else can already see that.. but I am anxiously awaiting the surprise ending to all of this. And.. before I became[through contemplation] that there were certain laws that rule the roost ...I applied them; but did not know I was applying them.. so KNOWING how they work is significant. I do not think that JJ is trying to rattle anyone's cage here; as much as he is imparting 'power' from his own intuition/revelation/experience. I cannot downplay [as JJ said] that starting a business or financial pursuits are an excellent 'garden' to experiment with universal laws ; as the financial kingdom/world shows definite results if one is on track and definite problems if one is not. A bank account going up and down is a very good barometer for registering results when 'focus' is being applied to a financial endeavor and universal truths applied. I read somewhere that successful business people.. many times turn to a spiritual path after they have conquered the financial arena.. because the 'laws' that they applied to get rich.. also move quite easily into the spiritual.. and they have a one-up on other aspirants due to that knowledge. Well enough on that part.. I mainly wanted to add to your comments that yes.. we are far form the perfect image of God.. in that we are still 'cooking'. We are not done yet...and our added focus and intent applied with God's as we co-create bringing the fruition of the human kingdom to its intended/eventual glory.. will most likely eradicate a lot of the 'viruses' and 'bugs' that are present. Does that make sense? In friendship too: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12721 From: "* Zia" Subject: [OT] NJ Meditation Loving Greetings After reading today's posts .... wow everyone is getting so inspired!! Beautiful to see... and deciding to spend a day reflecting on it all, I was suddenly reminded of my focus this morning and feel compelled to write it. In originally undertaking the NJ meditation, I too found the difficulty of remembering everything. However visualization comes very easy for myself, so I was okay with improvising if something got forgotten initially. Then because I also wanted my husband to journey with me, I decided one night to record the whole thing. Well interestingly I was cooking dinner, the cat decided it was time to meow extensively, something he rarely does, and of course I dropped the microphone etc, and had put music on in the background to assist the mind to create. Well the strangest recording ever produced was created... papers moving as I am reading different sections... allowing pause time, the bubbling on the stove causing the lid to bounce up and down, and of course the cat and opening the door to let him out (I couldn't stop the recording or the music would go out of synch was my thinking...) well you've got it... every mistake possible in my wonderful recording. So when I suggested we do this 'little recording of mine' for a focus one morning to my husband, well there was the most incredible laughter... and I now realize that because of that laughter an incredible sense of joy was permeating us as we visualized NJ, entered and followed the instructions!! During last summer, while doing readings... I have about a two minute break between calls, and I looked up, and watched superimposed on my surroundings a wall of sorts go liquid and dissolve away... and there was a great master I know well (not the Ram). I was just content to look upon him, for I had never seen him quite so clearly. Then the phone rang again, and I was into the next reading. This morning however, I must admit I have not thought about NJ particularly for quite a while except to take people there to be healed. And I have recently resumed singing the Song, mainly to use it to draw Light, Love and Power to those to be healed while in NJ. (I seem to just go straight in and am conscious of the circle and bringing those with me into the center of the circle for healing). After singing the Song and automatically thinking of those I include in healing focus... quite out of the blue I saw a hazy pyramid, and then saw the golden square... saw the doorways... was looking and really not thinking... Today in trying to get to Samu's archives I landed on the NJ meditation instead, started reading it, and realized that was what I was looking at this morning... odd that it didn't mean much at the time... I am happy just to observe in meditation often. So I am curious JJ, would you define this as observing NJ in the astral level or does it sit on a higher level of consciousness? What become the indicators... since it was not a spectacularly clear 'vision' yet contained color and detail with a certain haziness (which I don't usually see... I usually see very clearly)... is this my created thoughtform of NJ... won't we all share the same thoughtform to meet there in NJ? If you have a moment would appreciate your comments. Loving servant of God, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12722 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: reflections of God Paul: "All beings are partial reflections of the one idea" Judes: Hi...the above comment is what I am saying is not quite right[from my acceptance of the Law]. bear with me, Paul, I am not trying to be argumentative with you ..just clarify that you are diluting the law and therefore saying the law is not true?? Is that what you are saying? Because a law[especially from the Big Kahuna] is a law.. if it was a conjecture or a partial truth.. it would not be a LAW. A LAW implies that it is ALWAYS true.. which is WHY it is called a LAW instead of a hypothesis or a 'tendency most of the time'. To accept the 'law'.. I prefer "As above; So below"...is to understand that by pure simple logic that the opposite HAS to be true. This is just basic logical philosophy of truth..which was my dual minor in college along with English; Math being my major. But..I took a course in Logic; which was based on Platonian philosophy and the premise and deductive reasoning which follows is valid. If Below mirrors Above..ergo Below would mirror Above. This Law is pervasive in all spiritual writings and especially ancient ones on this..so SOMEBODY not only thought it was true..but significant to understand. Now..whether or not..we are only partial reflections instead of true reflections has to be true also..because this would apply to ALL levels above and below in consecutive order starting with first to last or higher to lower..and then conversely..last to first..lower to higher. Do you see? So..this law gives us a great insight into the higher realms and the lower realms..and "know Thyself" then has a greater and 'hidden' meaning. Oh well..thanks for letting me apply my logical reasoning to your hypothesis. LOL Love: Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12723 From: "Jina Bostick" Subject: Re: Dark Night of the Soul{OT} Zia, By doing a search on Lycos, found 2 websites where you can either download "Dark Night of the Soul" for free, or order it for $10.95 American. for free: http://ccel.wheaton.edu/john_of_the_cross/dark_night/dark_night.html to order: http://www.catholictreasures.com/descrip/10157.html Sunshine Post No. keys-l: /2000-02-29/12724 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: the virus idea Lorraine wrote: "Hi Keysters and most especially John K., I would like to address the virus theme of your story. Remember when God put forth His hand and blocked the way to the Tree of Knowledge "lest they put forth their hand and live forever in their sin"? Well, what that means to me is it was a glorious plan that we would experience many lives on this earth. And to be able to experience many we would need to end one to start another. Death is necessary, so is disease and pain. It is for our experience and joy to be able to know the good from the evil. I think the idea of putting a virus or a flaw into our DNA causing us to "crash" every so often was a great idea. If we had