2000 - WEEK 4 Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10710 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT? List Purpose and goals and how to welcome others in?? Greetings of Peace to All, Susan I really enjoyed what you put forward here, and the wisdom expressed not only by the author but also yourself. Having lived in a community certainly growing into that ultimate goal of being a healing nourishing community operating to the highest ideals, I would add a few comments as well. We must remember just as there will always be new people joining on the list, they are also moving into such a community. Understanding that they often come quite wounded, is paramount to our understanding, allowance, and encouragement for them to express, as many new to the list have, and again be allowed to heal through that expression, rather than be cut down even if we can easily find fault. To me that is just not the goal. Welcoming the new souls, demonstrating the highest ideals in communication and living, are 'teaching' through example, encouraging them to participate, and support the 'good perceived' yet honoring the truth and not denying or camouflaging, opens the door to growth for everyone. I found Maleny so amazing in this regard, with its alternative healing practitioners, the acceptance of the community for these 'alternative' lifestyle people. And so many people getting 'real' in their sharing and exposing those things we truly want to see and dissolve in the light of love. I found it challenging at times, and magnificent. Many will also then leave that community, and go out into the world, joining other communities and uplifting them... have watched my friends do precisely that in time. This is truly the gathering principle in operation to me, and finding one of these communities at a tough point of change in ones' life, is a great gift indeed. Also JJ I so enjoyed your information on the Bahai's for I had dear friends in Maleny (still dear friends that have come to visit) of this religion, and they were the closest in their beliefs it appeared to mine own. Certainly the foundation beliefs. And I had not known their history in such a detail, thank you. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA "susan carter" wrote: "I had a rather serendipitous occurrence this week. I went to a friends house and she said to me I bought a book some time back and everytime I pick it up I don't want to read it. I thinkI bought it really for you. The book was "Different Drum" by Scott Peck. It is subtitled, "Community Making and Peace." Rick mentioned this week that not only was this a learning forum but a forum for gathering." SNIPPED... Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10711 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Walk-Ins + Greetings of Peace to All, Marylin says: "When I look back now, I am of the strong opinion that we were given a very strong advantage for meeting life. And I am constantly thankful." Sunshine says: "And my 6-year-old son is learning to cook and sew and soon will have a new niece/nephew to help take care of. Will he have an advantage that the "older" young men of today won't/don't/may not have?" Zia: What has been expressed here is very indigenous to our American Indians and their cultural way of life, they have held so strongly to in the face of great adversity. Interestingly the man runs the house, does all the household jobs, and in many ways the woman is treated as a Queen... quite odd to behold. Yet it is my firm belief, that running a household is certainly great training to business skills for the outside world, learning to serve another so profoundly is also astonishing in operation when the 'other way around'! The woman is highly regarded and held in such esteem for her valued abilities of intuition, and spiritual insight within those races. I found this astonishing because the Eastern Philosophies and religions have the woman doing all the work, subservient to the master of the house, even waiting to eat until everyone else has eaten. That's astonishing too. Just some thoughts in reflection. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10712 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Crowley and his boss, Brian and Blavatsky her boss, Greetings of Peace to All, From Brian: "I said I was too busy because from noon Friday to two a.m. Saturday night, I have worked 24 hours at my job. I now do not have to go to work until noon Tuesday (that's why I do the long shifts F&S) and now have time to devote to finding what you legitimately have asked for. But now my son comes home from his mom's, so I'll see if I can sneak any Blavatsky in between Age of Empires and race cars LOL." Brian, your post really touched my heart, I can see the position you are striving so hard in, being a single parent is always one of the greatest challenges we can face, I feel certain! I salute your determination, and your ability to make ends meet, and have time for that little man in your life too!! You and Rick have common ground here, and I spent some 11 years as a single mum, so I too felt the incredible challenges. I would say relax, enjoy your week-end, and check out what is really of importance for you to reply to. Sometimes challenges are best let go of, for some will not ever really hear at this point in time. And proving one right and one wrong... well that is fraught with disaster on both parts!! I am actually very glad to see 'men' willing to stand their ground for what they believe, accept the challenge, and share their 'truth' and understandings... this is an important part of any healing process. I just wonder whether you may actually enjoy 'fighting fires' and therefore actually unconsciously draw this to you. Or perhaps the underlying belief system that keeps you stumbling is that 'your experiences may be unacceptable to some' and so you are all ready to defend and even fight to the death, for what you know to be true. Sort of like coming out fighting, only to find when the dust has settled, there really was no fight, and nothing to defend. I take this opportunity to welcome you to the list Brian, and look forward to understanding perhaps more what you personally gained and understood about you from past lives etc, how that created progress in your life changing whatever aspect of yourself NOW etc, rather than particularly who or what you were in the past. I guess I would ask in striving to understand you better, is do you feel this knowledge of the past has helped you, or has it created greater chaos in your life... and if the latter, is that because of 'other people's perceived non-acceptance'? thus creating a need in you to defend you now and for who you were in the past? I would also say to you, at a certain point in my time on the list, I went through quite a resistance to JJ and some of his teachings. Today I relooked through the Archives, reading and re-reading to discover much that I was not initially able to hear, and thus enjoy. Not everything someone will say will resonate with you... yet there are many wonderful ideas put forward to stimulate one in our adventure here together, and lead us into greater oneness, the goal of this list. I will be interested to hear what you have to say about specific teachings put forward by JJ, how they resonate in you, and what challenges you, that is how we learn and grow together in my humble opinion. Then as I understand you better, I believe we have a foundation to build a friendship upon. To friendship!! Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA ps... I can certainly attest to inspiration right in the middle of Sesame Street, and wanting to quickly right it down, yet contemplation always seemed to enhance the beautiful picture received and recorded in perfect timing. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10713 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Soul -- returning Home Greetings of Peace to All, Ahhh beloved brother John, you have so accurately described why I found people quoting scriptures so difficult to handle... interpretation and potential mis-use... ahhh thank you. I love words of wisdom that are so simple, that inspire the mind, and most 'religious' books have these... they make my heart soar. But... and it's a big but... how they get used is so 'inflicting' in its nature rather than 'inspiring' in its nature. And even with some of JJ's quotations and interpretations I feel the same way... and imagine if he's getting them straight from the horse's mouth, that wrote them, and knows their intended meaning... and it's been lost or misinterpreted by so many... well it's certainly a maze of the mind to wade through. So I look like the anti-Christ because I would rarely quote biblical scriptures of religions, nor use the words of another from the past, but rather take the words into my heart, experience them, and speak from that experience. Thank you John. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA "It's certainly no mystery that I Love the scriptures, not as some kind of "idol", but for the Truth that they make plain to many. So I'm very comfortable when someone quotes a source that they believe to be inspired. But what I don't see as beneficial is when some source is cited, perhaps just for its "poetic" words, but rather than honoring the source in its own context, tiny portions are scooped out to help make a point that the writer is trying to make. forgive the snipping John!!" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10714 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Blavatsky? Greetings of Peace to All, If I hear you correctly Brian, you too feel a sense of a double standard, one presentation in line with our list, another presentation by Sterling when he is the authority on his list. Is this correct Brian? Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA "But that won't stop you from sucking up to JJ, now will it, SDA??LOLLOLLOL." "Sterling D. Allan" wrote: "Here is what I wrote in preface to forwarding J.J.'s post this morning on "The Sign of Initiation." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10715 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Page 666 and the Keys of Knowledge list Glenys Lowery wrote: "I don't expect you to agree but you can spare me your religious outrage. Sterling already assumed the role of Accuser in his response to that email :-))" I agree that that is your position, which is all I sought. As for religious outrage, I only get outraged at perceived or experienced injustices. "Am I correct in assuming you do not accept this idea as absolute Truth? What is truth? Even Jesus didn't answer Pilate when he asked but I'm sure you have an opinion, Brian :-)" My opinion is that Pilate should have listened to his wife, who had dark foreboding dreams the night before the event you describe. And that's the truth. "And if I do believe this, does that make me one of the bible thumpers to which you allude?" "My definition of a bible thumper is someone who continually rams the bible down people's throats because they think they have a monopoly on the truth. I haven't heard enough of you to know whether you fit that definition." Bible thumpers despise me because I accept Joseph Smith but Mormons despise me because part of my work deals with Crowley whose followers despise me because I side with the Bible thumpers who despise me because I accept Joseph Smith but Mormons despise me because part of my work deals with Crowley whose followers despise me because I side with the Bible thumpers who despise me because I accept Joseph Smith but Mormons despite me because part of my work deals with Crowley whose followers despise me because I side with the Bible thumpers who despise me because I accept Joseph Smith but Mormons.......... "It is the living Christ who I serve and if anyone 'saved' me it was Him, not Jesus." I don't scoff at you making a difference between "Jesus" and "Christ" because my understanding is that Jesus became annointed/Christed and that what Jesus told us to do was to become Christed too. I just wonder if you believe Jesus actually died on the cross, was resurrected several days later, and literally ascended into heaven, be that as it may. "Pity they don't have burnings on the stake these days, eh? Although, you'd probably be up there with me. LOL" Yeah. They don't call 'em Stake Houses because they serve T-Bones LOL. brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10716 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: [Sterling] No Devil? Greetings of Peace to All, Hahahahhhhhhhhhhaaaaa, you can be quite funny Brian... yet the reason for my question, is perhaps if there is another even worse anti-Christ scenario yet to play out in the minds of some, or in religious writings, I am suggesting perhaps he's already occurred and been over-looked!! Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Brian wrote: "Obviously, the Jews have a better agent than the Ukrainians." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10717 From: Jean Subject Re: Fw: Truth as Empirical & Gnostic Craig, I want to welcome you to the list and others as well who have entered recently. I don't see you as lost as you say, I see you as very open minded, which is good, you are opening yourself up to the truth. It does feel confusing at times doesn't it? I go through that struggle time and time again. I was born and raised Catholic, went to catholic school for eight years, know the bible like the back of my hand, spirituality was always an interest and where things conflict with Christian beliefs, I feel that confusion, it s the letting go of old beliefs and trying to accept new ones. There is always a struggle with that, you will find though most on this list have been there, done that. Good luck to you my friend, may the force be with you :) Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10718 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Race Cars (was "Re: Crowley and his boss...") RWBH writes: "But now my son comes home from his mom's, so I'll see if I can sneak any Blavatsky in between Age of Empires and race cars" See?! He can't be so bad! : ) ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10719 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT? List Purpose and goals and how to welcome others in?? Greetings of Peace to All, And Rick how could you possibly leave 'the best part of you' behind??? I am certain we will be blessed to meet both... and I know at least I will see all of you Rick, no matter who is in command!!:) Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA PS it's also why you naturally love everyone!! Susan says, "Thanks for sharing yourself. I just wonder which of you will show up in June???? :)" "LOL "Ask Zia, she met us both, before even joining the list and meeting me there. I jokingly tell friends, my soul is too big to fit just one person. Rick+" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10720 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 Xavier Dolleans wrote: "Following Crowley a long time leads with high probability to destruction." I don't follow Aleister Crowley. I dictate material to him from Above when I'm not in this current incarnation and having to stick up for the sorry bugger. Post No. Archive keys-l: /2000-01-24/10721 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Latest list Greetings of Peace to All, Thanks Rick for giving us some options. What do the '*' after the name mean in this list? I personally benefited from the old layout, I could lookup Samu to find the links to his archives... since I don't save posts... etc and might suggest that if you choose to keep the old format, then perhaps only posting it when the numbers increase by 25 or 50 people rather than every month would cut down on the workload? Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10722 From: Glenys Lowery Subject Re: OT ? 2nd try... Hi Zia, I hope you don't my commenting on your thoughts on teachers as I note you have asked JJ to comment before and he hasn't responded. This is no doubt because he hasn't go time although I can't help thinking that he'd be setting himself up for a fall no matter how he responded. If, for example, he said that teachers didn't have to adhere to their own teachings, we'd all label him as a hypocrite. If, as is more likely, he said that, of course, true teachers must attempt to follow their own teachings to gain any credibility at all, then any small minded people on this list would clamour to condemn him whenever they thought he slipped up. I know you're not particularly interested in biblical quotes but you'll have to bear with me because I am :-) James said 'let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man.....' So it is clear the more is expected of teachers than non-teachers. And it is also clear that teachers will stumble along with everyone else; they are only human after all. My feelings are that teachers are, in effect, teaching themselves as well, and in that respect they are bound to slip up as they strive to apply the principles that they teach to their own lives. What they must be seen to do, if they are to have any semblance of credibility, is to be seen to be trying to live according to their highest truth, just as any disciple who is committed to the truth is expected to do. JJ would be the first to admit that he sometimes falls short of the mark. Does that make him an ineffective teacher? Well, I suppose each individual has to make up his or her own mind on that. I agree with James when he says that teachers incur a stricter judgment (or greater condemnation according to the notes at the side of the verse). And who condemns and judges? The people that receive the teachings because they have unrealistic expectations on how a teacher should act; in fact, they expect their teachers to have achieved nothing short of sainthood. We've seen enough of it on this list to know I'm right. Teachers are not perfect and I, for one, am glad of it. How could they empathize with those that teach if they are not like us - full of weaknesses and frailties. Show me the 'perfect' teacher and I'll show you a fraud. Love Glenys * Zia wrote: "So am I reading you correctly here JJ that the life of the teacher is not relevant in comparison to the teachings? It is one thing to put the teacher on a pedestal and worship him, quite another is it not to see the results of his teachings demonstrated in his own life, validating those teachings and setting an example as Christ certainly did?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Forget your old ideas. Forget the lies they told you. Forget them all, and you will begin to remember. - Marianne Williamson Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10723 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Alice Bailey Greetings of Peace to All, Sterling: "In summary, while Alice Bailey teaches a message that on surface glance appears to be one of beauty, love, and peace, she misses the two pillars of the Christ as presented in the Bible. Christ on the cross, who died for the sins of all mankind, and then arose triumphant from the tomb; and Christ who will come in glory (similar to how he did to the Nephites) so that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and that there is no other means of salvation except through him. It will not be some laughable event, as Bailey calls it, but will be one that will strike the deepest cords of recognition in every heart." Hi Sterling, just one simple comment, JJ has often stated that the Masters do not repeat themselves, of already known and received teachings, so perhaps DK simply did exactly that, only correcting previous teachings misinterpreted etc. And then bringing in a lot of new information as well. Even though some people would judge me as new age... not how I see myself, I believe your above statement will occur, that this is a very personal and individual event in the life of each person, and that this is not an en masse public demonstration of faith etc. Since it is personal, and individual choice as to 'when, how' etc this could already have been done by those judged as 'new age', and fully understood. And therefore our differences may not be as great as you think!!:) Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10724 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Blavatsky? Glenys Lowery wrote: "PS I know I'll probably regret this but you can find her books on this site http://www.netnews.org/" You'll even find a better photo of her too, Sterling, as looks seem important to you. But I have to admit she would never have been accepted as a Baywatch Babe. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Forget your old ideas. Forget the lies they told you. Forget them all, and you will begin to remember. - Marianne Williamson Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10725 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? Greetings of Peace to All, Sterling this is actually your wonderfully created game, and quite entertaining, yet I am certainly no proponent of it. I simply felt 'misperceived and misunderstood' by your interpretation of my post, to get it to conform to your picture of 666 or whatever, to fit in line with your perception of 'us' on this list.. and what better disparagement than to choose '666' as 'proof' of your brilliant interpretations... why not have proven our list through 888 and the CHRIST? It must also stand that test, yet would you through your filters be as creative in seeing the Christ in us?? Sterling also said: "What did God intend to convey in this miracle?" Zia: The miracle is yours, and yours to convey... God is about duplicating patterns... I think I wrote before about like attracting like to it, and that is a true principle observable in many patterns. You know there are now so many people on the earth applying the lessons of the Course in Miracles on a daily basis, that one can look at a challenge of their day... check out the lesson in the Course in Miracles, and discover an incredible correlation, and the answer to release the chaos or unhappiness that brought one to that point. This becomes a giant thought form in a sense that is creating reality, and assisting in the upliftment of mankind. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10726 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: OT LONG ("bickering") Re: Crowley and his boss, Brian and Blayne writes: "How come this JJ's list is so good, or so bad, or anyway how come this stuff moves me? I can't stand it. Oh so now your telling me my motives ok I am glad someone knows what going on inside me ...LOL!!! FYI its normal and natural to look what makes the list good or bad or both and I had not made that judgment. I was asking questions and challenging ideas and tactics to find out, still am. You conclusion that I am moved by the list is correct perhaps not in the way you are, or would expect but oh I forgot you know what's going on with me more then me... LOL!!! Please stop projecting your own feelings into my actions then you might more clearly see what I am about to some degree." That's right, Susan's post enlightened me on this. I'm very much trying to heal and convert, which are the roots of chaos. "I challenge you to do the same with Brian or any other, you all voiced your problems with Brian now treat him as a friend? What do you say?" I say that I treated him like a friend since the beginning. Whatever this seems to you, that's what I feel. "We (I) try to be fair, but don't ask us not to answer unfairness as we see it either. They don't ask any newbie not to either for that's all Brian and others responded to was what they thought was unfair. So give them the same respect you expect." Okay;-) Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10727 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Blavatsky? Not so much a double standard from one list to the next, but from one person to the next. But for some reason, I am feeling a lot of love towards Sterling right now. I think I love to goad him because' the Lord chastises those he loves.' Sometimes, when I write things, I can no longer tell if it's mortal me or the Christ speaking, for they are intertwined within my interior. Once even of late, I was sure I was speaking as JJ himself. We all have to change our act to suit the audience, it's true. Can you tell the funniest guy I've seen of late is Tony Clifton from Man On the Moon. A man after my own heart, when it comes to posting. In person, I am pretty gentle and considerate and pleasing: libra, huh. brian * Zia wrote: "If I hear you correctly Brian, you too feel a sense of a double standard, one presentation in line with our list, another presentation by Sterling when he is the authority on his list. Is this correct Brian?" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10728 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: The Soul -- returning Home "And I'm certainly not saying we can't lift references. I'm simply saying that if a reference is worthy of quoting, it is surely worthy of quoting within its own context. Or maybe you disagree?" If I meant to quote the Bible, I would have put "" around it and given [Matt 6:31-33], in brackets. What I was doing was paraphrasing something from my own writings, in a less formal form than the original text found at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/diyg06.htm check it out and see how close I was to saying what was said there. What I find in the Bible has to be put to the same tests, in my soul, as everything else that I read. I distill out what I can use in the pursuit of truth and come back again and again and find even more, but I do not place the bible as the unquestionable word of God, that must be taken word for word and I am also writing to others who do not take it so literal and so feel free to suggest additional meanings that may be nested in those "quotes". "Rick" -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10729 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: The Can of Soup I went to the supermarket the other day and looked on the shelves. I was looking for a can of soup. In front of me, there was a vast array of different types of soup, different flavours, different brands. I wanted a simple beef and vegetable soup. There were 12 different brands. I took a can from each brand down off the shelf and read the label. The first thing I noticed was the advertising hype which told the story as to why I should buy (or trust) one brand over another. brand A had more "nutritional value" than the others; brand B claimed less water and more value for money; brand C had 20% more beef; brand D had 20% more carrot; brand F was from an old secret recipe; brand G had no genetically modified ingredients: brand H had added vitamins and minerals... and so the story went on. There was even one brand which claimed "all natural ingredients". and one which "Choice magazine" rated the "best" (whatever that meant) A group of women gathered around to give me some well intentioned advice. Very soon there was a yelling match between the lady with a heavy Italian accent, the lady with the German accent, the lady with the French accent and the lady with the English accent. All I wanted was a simple can of soup. At this point, I put one can for each brand in the trolley, paid for my purchases (and the price bore a direct relationship with the advertising hype not the stated contents or quantity) and went home to have a closer look. In to 12 separate bowls I emptied the cans of soup.... Some of them looked like my dog's regurgitated breakfast ... particularly the "choice selected" and none of them looked anything like my mother or grandmother used to cook and the ones I was game to taste, I ended up spitting out. What I ended up doing was going down to the market garden and picking individual fresh vegetables buying the best beef from the butcher and making my own ... which looked and tasted a whole lot better than what was sold as "canned soup". (And I didn't use recipe out of any book ... just what I had remembered from experience .. and what resonated with what my body needed) When you go shopping in the cosmic supermarket, and you go to the shelf marked consciousness, what brand of Christ will you purchase ... Will it be fresh, natural, and alive with universal breath .... or will it be processed, genetically modified with artificial ingredients, and laden with preservatives and fillers? "Grandma's" recipe that she used for me down on the farm from home-grown ingredients and her own experience tasted a whole lot different to what the supermarket sold me as "grandma's own" Now, that had Soul Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10730 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Sign of Initiation Greetings of Peace to All, JJ: "I would rate her writings as higher than Blavatsky, the highest and purest ever given out to mankind, the actual words of a Master given directly to a disciple. The Master dictating the actual words was Djwahl Khul." Brian: "Brian slams on the brakes here. "Are you saying Blavatsky's writings are higher and purer than those of Joseph Smith?" "Which, in reference to D&C, for example = Master Khul is higher and purer than the Master speaking thru Joseph, namely THE Master, even Jesus the Christ, aka God." Did you actually say this JJ, or did I misread it? This is funny, we all see our 'chosen' inspiration, authority, teacher as having the greatest wisdom. JJ has just done what most of us have at one time or another done... sweeping statement because that's how he sees it. You know I could challenge that statement from a number of perspectives too Brian, yet JJ has simply gotten carried away with how 'he sees Alice Bailey and DK's teachings'. I would add here that yes it can seem offensive or incorrect... it doesn't resonate... yet it is no big deal in the overall picture here.. simply done for emphasis.. human error. Alice Bailey certainly set the example, and as far as I can see with her teachings from DK this is the forerunner of so much of this method and type and quality of information to come, that is already coming through I would suggest several people on this planet, yet who could possibly read it all or be a part of it all. I personally could say the Ram in the last twenty years of so many events day and night... long retreats and long teachings has brought forth a lot of very new, scientific and brilliant teachings profoundly with the CHRIST forefront in the school. Since I was a part of this, and studied much of it... well that stands out for me... Alice Bailey stands out for JJ. In terms of quantity of material alone, it is vast from the Ram now, yet not yet in written form, except in a lot of people's notes over time... a few released on audio teachings, only to those in the school at this time, and yet that also changes too, a lot now being slowly released to the public. I cannot agree with the highest ever given out to mankind either, because we are evolving and as we see our technology evolving, so too is our spiritually and our understanding of who and what we are... so what has happened since Alice Bailey... I would suggest perhaps quite a lot??!! Yet in the end, the messages will all been seen to be the same... for the simplest of truths, will just be spoken about from all the perspectives that we are, and these will meet in oneness of the truth of all that is. Since DK is of the CHRIST consciousness, and the office of the Christ, is he not speaking for Christ and or with Christ... who are we to know? Perhaps the Christ and DK put it all together for presentation working together?? We could stop looking for what is wrong with what JJ says, and I remember how much I said this when I first joined this list about JJ pointing out what was wrong in people's responses... so it is not surprising this is occurring, but rather choose to see what is right within our soul, respond to that, develop that, making sure it is our soul and not our personality and its filters. Then we will be applying the real gift and value in JJ's teachings... his goal to assist in gaining or improving soul contact, for those on the list.:) Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10731 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Page 666 and the Keys of Knowledge list RWBH wrote: "I agree that that is your position, which is all I sought. As for religious outrage, I only get outraged at perceived or experienced injustices." Well, at least you didn't don garlic and get out a crucifix to protect yourself against me :-) "I just wonder if you believe Jesus actually died on the cross, was resurrected several days later, and literally ascended into heaven, be that as it may." I don't have strong beliefs on an historical event to which I was not invited. I can only try to discern the truth from what people have said about it and the promptings of my own heart. If you're interested in someone who does have a view that is different from the usual teachings, here's the link to JJ's writings on the matter. I'm happy to accept his views as a working hypothesis because it makes sense to me at this stage of my life. But I'm willing to be convinced on any other scenario as well :-) http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives/JJ293.html http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives/JJ298.html Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Forget your old ideas. Forget the lies they told you. Forget them all, and you will begin to remember. - Marianne Williamson Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10732 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 RWBH wrote: "Xavier Dolleans wrote: "Following Crowley a long time leads with high probability to destruction." "I don't follow Aleister Crowley. I dictate material to him from Above when I'm not in this current incarnation and having to stick up for the sorry bugger." LOL! Why bother, especially as he seems so ungrateful and mostly seems to ignore your wise advice anyway :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10733 From: Diana Brown Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Truth as Empirical & Gnostic The confusion that I feel is all the messages in my email box. its fun to sort through and see the thoughts of others "in writing" for a change. I have let go of my old beliefs a long time ago, I too was raised strict Catholic and thru time found that it was not the way for me. I want to take a moment to Thank everyone for the warm welcome and I hope to add to this interesting conversation very soon. Love and prayers, Diana Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10734 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Sign of Initiation Greetings of Peace to All, JJ says: "I might add that when a better way is initiated the dumbest thing to do is not follow." Zia: And I might add to that '...the dumbest thing to do is not to follow, ... ever on the alert for using one's ability to initiate something greater, using what came before as a stepping stone to greater understanding, evolution, and benefit to all'. I certainly would not want to get caught up in just following... and yes I know you meant that JJ!!:) Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10735 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Blavatsky? Sterling D. Allan writes: "While his argument from the scriptures holds ground, I still am not set to rest about why someone would choose that name for their publication, knowing full well the image it carries in people's mind. To me, rather, it smacks of what one sees in the occult in which Satan is elevated as the actual supreme being, and the Jesus Christ is a usurper who must be overthrown so that Lucifer might take his/her rightful place." Actually, Lucifer is not only a name for "bringer of light", it is also the true name of the planet Venus, which planet is the bringer of light and wisdom (at least in some hazy attempt at definition of mine) to our humanity. The hierarchy of masters came from Venus. The Ancient of Days came from Venus. So Lucifer's naming justification in JJ's writings was not only referring to the meaning of the name, the simple meaning of "light bearer", but more profoundly to the fact that the Light is carried to us through Lucifer, the morning star. Actually, calling a magazine Lucifer is saying "we are followers of the light who know where it comes from" The fact that some entity, called Lucifer as well, is a bringer of evil, doesn't nullify that that *title* applies to a much broader reality. While Glenys and others find you insulting, I read that you lack many elements to make a judgment, that's why your right conclusion is that we are deluded, or refusing Christ etc.. It seems to me that you have only heard a few things about these matters, but there are many more that you still lack in order to see that these views are sound and in no contradiction whatsoever with the spirit of the church's law. On the contrary, theosophy's motto is "there is no religion higher than truth" and indeed it gives truth in abundance. Stick to it! :-) (And sorry for my attempt at healing and converting, but you asked for help) Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10736 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 RWBH writes: "Following Crowley a long time leads with high probability to destruction. I don't follow Aleister Crowley. I dictate material to him from Above when I'm not in this current incarnation and having to stick up for the sorry bugger." Yes I see that I overlooked many things that you said. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10737 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Crowley and his boss, Brian and Blavatsky her boss, "First, sincere thanks for such a considerate post. Re:single parenthood." I am very blessed to have the son I do, because he makes my task so much easier than it might be. I feel we have a pretty good arrangement where he lives with me during the week, and spends friday evening until sunday noon with his mom while I am at work most of that time. I feel so sorry for people who have to live in a situation less balanced between the parents. "I just wonder whether you may actually enjoy 'fighting fires' and therefore actually unconsciously draw this to you." Of course you are mostly right about that. Do you know natal chart interpretation? I'm definitely a manifestation of what my chart says I might be. Mars in Leo and Pluto in Leo and Saturn in Virgo and Moon in Virgo, all in the 9th House of religion, philosophy, and the rest of it. Any good knight enjoys a good sword fight. It keeps the sword sharp and the eye keen. But I can serve humbly as well; as anyone who knows me better would attest. "I take this opportunity to welcome you to the list Brian, and look forward to understanding perhaps more what you personally gained and understood about you from past lives etc, how that created progress in your life changing whatever aspect of yourself NOW etc, rather than particularly who or what you were in the past." If it wasn't an interesting place to visit, I wouldn't be here. Merci for the welcome. The position on the list I choose is that of a visitor for now. When I was in university, you could take a course officially, or you could just sit in and listen and learn and partake. I'll defend myself against anyone, and speak my mind. But I retain some respect for the fact this IS a JJ Dewey list, and I really don't try to nor have any agenda to challenge his pre-eminence. "I guess I would ask in striving to understand you better, is do you feel this knowledge of the past has helped you, or has it created greater chaos in your life... and if the latter, is that because of 'other people's perceived non-acceptance'? thus creating a need in you to defend you now and for who you were in the past?" Understanding. Now that's the key to knowledge. Past knowledge: help or chaos? Both, honestly. Help because to me it is a personally satisfying reward for all the past pain and suffering; faithful striving bit by bit; and fulfillment of a love within me for my mate that knows no bounds, time nor space. I lost someone I loved so much, who always seemed like another part of me, whose loss was the most impossible shocking thing I have ever had to face (being rooted in sun/neptune libra vibrations). I loved her on and on, in spite of how horribly it ruined my life, inside and out. Not long before we parted, she told me she dreamed: I dreamed I crucified Christ. I was a very bad girl. And she was indeed my own very cross to endure. What is a cross? It is a situation where your spiritual reality nails you to an inalterable worldly reality of such pain and suffering, until all the human portion of you has cried or bled itself to death. Yet I understand full well that such a miserable experience was something I willingly took upon myself in this life. I am much much better now. So when you have spent more than a decade in sheer personal hell simply because you cannot find a way to stop loving someone; someone who opened up her soul to yours and spoke right into your own soul; someone you have seen as your own eternal Other; someone who even told you 'you are an eternal pair' by Holy Ghost inspiration...when you have loved such a person that much that long at such a cost...and then you find out that she and you were RB and EBB in your previous life....well, the long night of terror begins to make a whole lot of sense. Understanding my past let me see my present in such a way that I could get on to my future. I am libra with sun and soul level Neptune therein. I am very sensitive to the Neptune soul level of things. I loved this woman from that soul level. She was literally a 'soul mate'. But she is a Taurus in this life. And her Neptune is exactly conjuncted by Saturn. I'm trying to use this as language, not an intellectualization. She seemed able to just turn it all off. Leaving me without such an ability. So when I discovered one of the women I have most admired platonically in my life, EBB, was in fact my own very wife in her day; and more importantly, when my soul opened to hers...I found the soul contact at my own level that I died for in her present incarnation as a Taurus. EBB was a triple Pisces (ruled by Neptune). I can honestly say that I have been able to connect with EBB soul to soul better than even RB did. So when I found my Past, I found Love. And the Love I found is eternal Love. She pulled me out of the gutter of despair, and without her in my Past, I would have had no future in this present. I would dearly invite you to go to my site http://www.bais.nu and click to Boof of Ba and on to last chapter: Sonnets From the Pleiades. These are seven sonnets I wrote in 1981 while very close to EBB soulwise. Hopefully I have captured in poetry what I feel I just cannot explain here. It's created chaos for me in situations such as the fuss I managed to create when I first landed at this site. I simply stated the fact that my spiritual experiences and evolution have revealed the fact I was RB in my past life; thinking that that was something out of the usual, and viewing whatever good there was in such a thing as a resource the group may or may not be able to find some use for. It's also chaos because I am determined to DO something with my self knowledge. This primarily means in the way of my book or writings and publishing and that sort of thing. God has done marvelous things in my life, and I don't think I should hide that light under a bushel, as they say. I think my point of view is that people 'should' look into my story and information. See if they can catch the vision of what the Lord has done in my life. For example, the Bee Gees material. That's some pretty powerful movement by the Holy Ghost. It amazes me. I'd thought it might amaze others as well. "I would also say to you, at a certain point in my time on the list, I went through quite a resistance to JJ and some of his teachings. Today I relooked through the Archives, reading and re-reading to discover much that I was not initially able to hear, and thus enjoy. Not everything someone will say will resonate with you... yet there are many wonderful ideas put forward to stimulate one in our adventure here together, and lead us into greater oneness, the goal of this list." JJ has said some things that resonated with me and impressed me with their originality. But I find there is really very little new under the sun, and all is vanity, for the most part. "I will be interested to hear what you have to say about specific teachings put forward by JJ, how they resonate in you, and what challenges you, that is how we learn and grow together in my humble opinion." If you have specific teachings already in mind, fire away. I'll try to comment sincerely. My greatest challenge is to determine what my substantial insight into the Book of the Law, and what my life's work generally, has to offer people. I know I have a dump truck full of something valuable. I as yet do not comprehend what I am supposed to do with it. Lately, I'm thinking, it might be enough just to try to 'sell' the world on the fact I am the' reincarnation of RB, and that in itself could interest enough people that I may be able to bring light and truth of such things into a good many people's lives. I consider myself a humble, hardworking Light Worker. I want to turn in a life here that dear EBB would be proud of. The rest, well....neahhhhh. "Then as I understand you better, I believe we have a foundation to build a friendship upon. To friendship!!" To continue my astrological self explanation, I have sun in libra in 11th House of society and friends. I value true friends more than anything. I can modestly say, I believe, that a good many people in my life count me as one of their most cherished friends; in spite of my very hermitish ways. So I welcome your invitation to friendship as a great gift we can give to each other. And I sincerely thank you for asking me a few questions that speak to my heart. So...this is who I am. And this is all I know. And I must choose to live For all that I can give The spark that makes the power grow......Immortality....I make my journey through eternity...I keep the memory of you and me inside.................. rwbh / brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10738 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: The Sign of Initiation (or JJ and his broom) Zia wrote: "JJ has just done what most of us have at one time or another done... sweeping statement because that's how he sees it. ................., yet JJ has simply gotten carried away with how 'he sees Alice Bailey and DK's teachings'." Has he? How do you know that? Perhaps you are reinterpreting his comment to fit in with your own paradigms? :-) It may be he meant exactly what he said. Oh dear! Where would we be then? LOL "I would add here that yes it can seem offensive or incorrect... it doesn't resonate... yet it is no big deal in the overall picture here.. simply done for emphasis.. human error." Again, you're explaining it away so that it fits in with your particular beliefs and so you can find it less offensive. No wonder we have so many problems with communication on this list, if we feel we have to reinterpret each other, particularly the teacher. If JJ did make a mistake, he'd be the first to tell us and maybe he still will, although I have to say, I would not describe him as a 'man of sweeping statements' myself. "We could stop looking for what is wrong with what JJ says," Or correcting him when it suits us? Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10739 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Why are we here? MabelZia: Well..I said I would not "post"..but just "lurk"..BUT..we so often we have to "eat" our words..don't we? Always works that way ..when the "ego" is talking. Okay..I got my "feelings hurt" when JJ did not acknowledge my input.but I am over it now...as Truth supercedes the "teacher" as well as the STUDENT<~~Me! Zia....your post about the "Golden Plane"[where we began] and the significance of being physical[or being incarnate on the lowest plane] where we are now ; to be able to ascend the ladder caught my attention. And. since I know where you obtained this bit of knowledge; as Ramtha was my teacher too for 12 years. I have precipitated a more "loner" path over the last year..and realized the difference when truth comes from your own intuition as opposed to hearing it first from another source. Not that there is not much truth to Ramtha's teachings...I have by my own logical reasoning and intuition had to throw that part out[that it is necessary to descend to this lowest level for any rational reason at all].I now believe that this descent from the first heaven was due to becoming separated from Source to the degree that energetically we[enmasee] transmigrated to this level; because we [enmasse] could no longer resonate at the frequency required to maintain ourselves and our holographic reality at that level. There is nothing really good about it or bad about it; except that we have derived ourselves at a place that is "sort of-out of the Kingdom"; and to many here seems like down-right Hell. To get to the kingdom AGAIN..we first have to figure out why we are here and accept that we ourselves put ourselves here and then make a concentrated effort to get back to where we started from and BELONG. I know that Ramtha explained it as necessary to evolve..one must first descend completely to the lowest rung..but if you[ZIA] can give me a logical reason why this HAS to be necessary..I would appreciate your insights..that I am missing. I want to add too..that beings from higher dimensions[where we originated from] are physical also...just at a higher frequency..and to us viewing them from this plane to be pure light-bodies or angelic. So, why would descending the ladder of dimensionality to the LOWEST rung...be necessary and to what means? To me..understanding this "ladder" is significant only in that we can focus on ascending it...not that there is any GLORY in descending it at all. Also..as JJ is saying lately about walk-ins..some of us are "messengers" form this higher plane that have descended to help the rest of us ascend...so hopefully ALL of us fit that bill[LOL}..instead of "falling"[pun intended] into the category of "lost ones" stuck down here on the first rung. Thanks Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10740 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Blavatsky? RWBH wrote: "But for some reason, I am feeling a lot of love towards Sterling right now. I think I love to goad him because' the Lord chastises those he loves.' Hahaha! I'm sure Sterling feels *really* loved by the Lord through you, Brian. I bet he gives thanks for you in his life every day :-) "Once even of late, I was sure I was speaking as JJ himself." The Oneness Principle in operation. "In person, I am pretty gentle and considerate and pleasing: libra, huh. brian" That explains a lot. Still trying to find that elusive point of balance that lesser people have given up on :-) (I have my moon in Libra and regard it as one of my few saving graces :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10741 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: Why are we here? Hi Zia: If this message shows up twice..sorry..I am trying to get rid of the word "Mabel" that shows up in my post??? Do not know what that is? Editor's Note: Repeat post of 10739 Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10742 From: DeHara Subject: Re: OT: 2nd: How to tell if your Ass is to small! Greetings All. zia writes: "Just to let you know I received nothing for these two emails ... please remember some email systems do not handle however you have sent these emails." Hi Zia, Just to let you know . . . you didn't miss much. All I got was another opportunity to forgive myself. You see, I received both emails . . . and downloaded them both. I'm still trying to interpret what I received. But more important to me, is to understand why someone would want to send "46 pages of garbage" real junk, not once but 2 X's? Maybe the sender will volunteer their intent re: filename="bleep.jpg"? Pablo, if you are still around, please clarify your intent? Let me explain, Both contained attached files too large for Notepad and had to be opened with WordPad. Needless to say, my initial expectation was great. then came the great fall. The first was a big disappointment and I shoulda learned my lesson but I'm a sucker for an apology. Yes, the 2nd email read " Sorry for the screw up on the file in the first send. This should be better." Shoulda, woulda, coulda but it wasn't better, it was the same. Only this time, I did not feel so foolish. Just got a chance to see myself as more of a sucker than I had first thought . . . since all I got the 2nd time was a copy of the first, 46 pages of "junk" with the same ending ~in html lanquage. "Don't Assert yourself. Keep yourself out of the way, be a perfect hypocrite, and your life will be a successful life." Osho Man, Pablo, was I frustrated. No, I didn't laugh and yes, I felt like an bleep but I'm not upset with you, In fact, I feel agreement here with Osho, e.,a., People are deluded by appearance: Especially those who are successful in keeping out of harm's way, never asserting themself. They may have a successful life but they will be a perfect hypocrite. Is this what was meant? Please, what was your intent? Love, Compassion & Joy, Dehara Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10743 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Diana Diana Brown wrote: "The confusion that I feel is all the messages in my email box." Don't worry about it. Many of us who have been on the list from the beginning are equally confused :-)) (This, in spite of the fact that we are often the instigators of the confusion :-)) "I want to take a moment to Thank everyone for the warm welcome and I hope to add to this interesting conversation very soon." Let me add my welcome to you. We're going through a 'fertile' period right now but I can assure you that you won't always have this many emails to plough through and you will learn to use your Delete button in time :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10744 From: RWBH Subject: Re: The Can of Soup Christopher Wynter wrote: "I went to the supermarket the other day and looked on the shelves. I was looking for a can of soup." Personally, I'd have to recommend the Joseph Campbell's Vegetable Beef. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10745 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 Xavier Dolleans wrote: "Following Crowley a long time leads with high probability to destruction." RWBH wrote: "I don't follow Aleister Crowley. I dictate material to him from Above when I'm not in this current incarnation and having to stick up for the sorry bugger." I have recently quoted Aleister Crowley only for the sake of showing those of you who choose to remain inflexible, that he was of significance. Much of his influence was positive in that he expanded the minds of a very closed world; and yes, he was only one of many. No one on this list has yet expounded on Crowley's magnificent contribution to deciphering TAROT in light of Cabalistic tree of life sephirothic meaning. Yet, in your ignorance of him, you judge. Xavier, I'm not sure why you or anyone on this list would be in the habit of shooting down anyone who dabbled in metaphysics at a time when it was much less popular than it is today. We tend to forget the pioneers who blazed the trail of openness and adjusted a dark world's potential for light. Let me explain further. I have heard JJ speak highly of Alice A. Bailey. I think she was a ray of bright light down here. But who on this list has suggested that we should "follow" her anywhere? Who on this list (aside from the incarnation of AC) has suggested that we follow Aleister Crowley? Why is everyone so quick to judge and condemn? A more spiritually mature person becomes eclectic in the absence of direct revelation. I am in the business of turning over stones, and leaving none unturned. I wouldn't have serendipitously arrived on this list without continually looking for truth where others told me not to look. As for the statement: "Following Crowley a long time leads with high probability to destruction." I would suggest that any one of you who follows JJ for a long time will stagnate. I don't say this lightly, nor to insult JJ in the least, and I guarantee you that he knows it is true. We were created to become one, not to become followers of one or another. If each one of us do not get to the point to where we are in communion with God, heaven, our higher self, angels, etc., we will not endure the storms of life. We can not depend on others to get us there. This is the lesser contract which required mediation. Ultimately, we must all find ourselves. Now, on to the next controversy! Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10746 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Crowley and his boss, Brian and Blavatsky her boss, RWBH wrote: "I lost someone I loved so much, who always seemed like another part of me, whose loss was the most impossible shocking thing I have ever had to face (being rooted in sun/neptune libra vibrations). I loved her on and on, in spite of how horribly it ruined my life, inside and out." I can relate to your story, Brian. You may like to read my story of unrequited love on Samu's site entitled the Bride of Yoda http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.htmlYodaGlenys Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10747 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT? List Purpose and goals and how to welcome others in?? susan carter wrote: "When the group is able to get through the stage of emptiness then they truly become a community, the fourth step. Chaos periodically resurfaces and the true healing takes place again by going through the emptiness stage. Anyhow I thought this was relevant to us. This week Rick told us some pretty personal stuff. I lost his message so didn't reply directly. Rick that took courage and guts. Thanks for sharing yourself. I just wonder which of you will show up in June???? :) Brian has an amazing ability to share his brokenness and is giving us a wonderful opportunity to see how our community making skills are coming. Sterling and I shared an interpersonal conflict that could have been kept secret. I recognize my attempt here to give knowledge and info may fall into the "heal and convert" phase, but I will take the risk. I hope we each can see ourselves here and push towards gathering and oneness." Thanks for taking the trouble to post this, Susan. It was very useful. Love Glenys PS No, I'm a no-show in June as my circumstances preclude my being there. Next time perhaps :-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought. - Mahatma Gandhi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10748 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT: 2nd: How to tell if your bleep is to small! Greetings of Peace to All, hahhahaaa thank you Dehara.. actually in looking at the title I knew that I just didn't have the problem of the subject matter... too small... now that's a good joke!!! Ah well, I had so many posts today, I had already forgotten it!! At least I got a great laugh from what you wrote... thanks!!:) Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10749 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Page 666 and the Keys of Knowledge list_ "Well, Rick my friend, I knew sooner, or later, we would end up in the same boat, in this Infinite Ocean of Possibility. The Middle Path is often a difficult Path to follow. It requires that we turn our own lives, Philosophies, and views upside down to see the views of the many, in our pursuit of Oneness." Yes, and in 50-100 years they may all wonder if we, like Blavatski, were sinners or saints, but our work will have added to bringing mankind towards Oneness and we won't care what they think of us or have to worry that they might deify us or say our mothers were virgins. One, Rick Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10750 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Standing Eggs on End On a lighter note, in his post this morning, J.J. tells the story of Columbus "To this challenge Columbus took an egg off his plate and handed it to the heckler and said: "Take this egg my friend and see if you can make it stand on its end." Speaking of standing eggs on end, my dad has done it over 100 times and uses this example as part of explaining a new model for gravity. One of his eggs stood on end for three months, withstanding the perturbations of kitchen vibrations and breezes. For illustrations and an explanation of how a simple kitchen experiment can help understand this new gravitational theory, see http://www.allanstime.com/UnifiedFieldTheory/egg/ Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10751 From: Susi Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? Sterling D. Allen wrote: "Zia and Rick (and whoever else), Inasmuch as you were the ones whose posts coincided with page 666 of Gesenius' Old Testament lexicon, and you seemed to have taken my comments personally as to the significance of the applications, I would invite you to offer your own take on the applications as you see them. "http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/KeysPage666.htm "Keys of Knowledge List Archive Posts 6293-6302 compared to words 6293-6302 on Page 666 of Gesenius' OT Lexicon" "I think at a minimum you will have to agree with me that there is a definite correlation going on here. What then is subject to debate is the meaning of the line-up. What did God intend to convey in this miracle? I've given you my opinion. Let's hear yours." Susi: Below is Sterlings reference to my post and below that my comments. Please read onward. From sterlings page: 6299 unused root paded (1) to cut, to separate; to be alone, separated; to cleave; (2) to plow; a plough- ox; a yoke of oxen; field, plain. 6299 padah To loose (1) to redeem by paying a price; (2) to let go; (3) to set free, e.g. from servitude; to preserve to deliver life from danger. List Archive keys-l: /2000-03/10567 From: Susi Paul wrote: "This occurs naturally and automatically until the personality wakes up in one lifetime and begins to allow their soul to choose through them a new direction in life in accordance with her light. From then on the incarnating soul would continue to choose through the ever greater freedom of the personality the kind of experiences she wants to have in each lifetime including the experiences related to gender." Susi: "I've been meaning to say I really like the way I see you consistently give attention to her and she equally as his and he in your posts, the first time was a few weeks ago that I was prompted to write but got side tracked. This time I did not wish to let it go...... So Kudos and Thank you Paul for recognizing the value of both equally." Sterling's comment: "The correlation between "to be alone, separated; to cleave" or the idea of singleness and "choosing gender" is pretty obvious, as both deal with the male versus female issue, the ideal being to eventually strike a harmonious balance between the two so that the twain become one. "In context of 666, I think of the evil designs to pervert the male-female relationship and to drive a wedge between the oneness that is possible. "As for the definition (6299), "to set free," the phrase "through the ever greater freedom" from post 6299 is a pretty good match. To read between the lines here, one of the greatest attractions of a solid marriage is the freedom that each has, the opposite of control and unrighteous dominion that is typical of 666." Susi: "Sterling, I will need further clarification on your comments here please. The reasonating correlation to me was the reference 'to let go'. I had let something slip by once and recognized it the second time around which reminded me my intentions the first time I saw it and did not wish to 'let it go' unnoticed this time. Why because to forget the importance of either female or male as both being of equal value will ultimately keep one or the other stuck or stagnating, but to remember this important information is "to preserve to deliver life from danger" of placing ones self on a pedestal purely based on sex alone. The other parts that strike me as interesting are these: Many perceive me 'to be alone' in that I do not surround myself with large numbers of people and many times I have been refereed to as a loner. Jane being my middle name I have often referred to myself as a plain Jane which also correlates with the word definition 'plain'. "More often than not it is disagreed that I am plain, while I disagree that I am a loner. I simply choose to spend the majority of my life with my wonderful family and hold many people close to my heart yet not in close proximity to me. 'Alas I am guilty of wishing to be at peace in this beautiful place called earth and where I find that peace is in secluded wilderness and not so secluded bodies of water. I love people and interacting with them. When I am out in public people come up and start to talk to me that do not know me and proceed to tell me their deepest hurts and fears as if I can magically make them all better. I listen intently and hope they find their peace but I do not claim to be a miracle worker or even someone who is better than a slug or worse than any one of Gods children. This even happens to my husband just as frequently as myself. So yes again I am guilty of 'to separate' in that I separate myself at times from the man made world in reverence of the real world that God created for all It's (Gods) creatures and am privileged to live with many wild animals that do not seem to mind our presence one bit and they also do not lean on me as heavily as those who approach with their sorrows and sadness. It is important to note that just as many people come up to me to speak of the light and of God and of happiness as those that are speaking of their sorrows, it is just my compassion that wishes to heal the world of its woes that brings them into the light of my thoughts first. So if your reference to me was one that was negative that is fine I have no reservations about you casting me in a negative light or anyone else doing the same.....my compassion and light speak for themselves. If you were casting that post in a positive manner that is fine as well. I do see the correlation to the meaning of the word 6299....also I was born in 62 and since 9 added in numerology is equivalent to adding 0 this number correlates to my birth year. A very neat tricky game you've made here with your alphabetics and numbers! I got the following from 6299 using the search tools at this URL http://www.coos.or.us/~dust/cmbible.htm and found a different meaning and read the word as it was place in its context in the various scriptures. I was unable to find a tool that used the page 666 of Gesenius' Old Testament lexicon and would like very much if you could quote to me the entire context that the word 6299 is used in. More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 06299! Back to Gen 1:1 06299 padah {paw-daw'} a primitive root; TWOT - 1734; v AV - redeem 48, deliver 5, ransom 2, rescued 1, misc 3; 59 1) to ransom, redeem, rescue, deliver 1a) (Qal) to ransom 1b) (Niphal) to be ransomed 1c) (Hiphil) to allow one to be ransomed 1d) (Hophal) redeemed This varies from your findings but it is your game so I will rely on you posting the information I seek. Quoting you from above, "and you seemed to have taken my comments personally as to the significance of the applications, I would invite you to offer your own take on the applications as you see them." I did not take your comments personally but since I am one of the people quoted on your website for the world to see and now you've posted this to the keys list which insinuates that I might have taken it personally, I thought it pertinent that I acknowledge you. I trust this thought will be reciprocated by you. I anxiously await your reply. Many Blessings;-) Susi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10752 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Possible alternative interpretations Brian Neptune is also the planet of illusion and deception. Yours is in the sign that rules partnerships. Are any of the planets in your 9th conjunct? I'm truly sorry you got so hurt. Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10753 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Re: No Devil? I've been contemplating... Maybe we have Lucifer to thank for the fact that we fell no further than we did? Maybe we have to raise Lucifer to get back to God? Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10754 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Why are we here? (OT)?? Greetings of Peace to All, Hello Judy, perhaps we know each other by sight... I did not meet many people, since with my son, he was often my partner, consequently as I say, I did not meet a lot of people, and also in the early days, I just flew in from Australia and flew out at the end of the event... again not meeting too many people at all! I feel this subject is very much currently off-topic, and therefore perhaps not so appropriate to answer on the list. So I would ask do you have ICQ, so we could chat that way, or perhaps we could directly email as I have no desire to clutter JJ's list with my sometimes lengthy answers which this subject certainly would create. I wish to make a couple of statements and ask those on the list, such as Glenys, if they recall the post in which JJ spoke of the levels of consciousness, which may have been in the Molecular Relationship information... about ascending according to the levels descended etc.. as I would like to tie that in to bring Judy more into alignment with what is taught here at the same time. One question... were you in school for the two Plane of Bliss weekends in 1998? This is important because that experienced, changed the foundation of my own thinking as well. As an aside we did not begin on the golden plane... according to the Ram and many other teachers... you may recall commencing at Point Zero, and the pyramid that is often the beginning point in the school. This does form a part of the answer so I would refresh your memory there too. Another perhaps misunderstanding of what you say on my part, the goal is not to reach the Golden Kingdom AGAIN, we can do that over and over between lifetimes once a certain level of consciousness is achieved from here... but through the abilities of this body here being able to enfold all the way to point zero... whereas perhaps from any other plane we cannot go up the ladder... enfold up, only unfold down until we reach this plane. So many just stay at the Golden Plane level rather than come into incarnation here. At this level, the bottom of the barrel as I might refer to it sometimes, there is only one way to go and that is up, which can take you all the way to point zero and beyond, provided you have completed here. Jesus' resurrection which JJ describes as the greater resurrection gives him freedom to all levels of consciousness to point zero, as I understand it, although I have never had this confirmed, because I had not heard of JJ's terminology, but we certainly were aware of extending one's life, and physical immortality achieved through resurrection. Again different terminology. This will certainly challenge me to be able to find things in the archives that I read in my earlier days on this list, at quite a speed really to come up to speed with the list and begin posting. I really suggest that you do this, as often times in the earlier days I found the Ram to seemingly to me, present an overview of alot of material, and then I would receive greater depth to it from what I drew to me, etc, or he would later teach in greater and greater depth. The other difficulty in sharing here, is the Ram has quite a different lingo and definition for so many things posted here I would not like to cause confusion, yet am more than willing to discuss with you within common terms to both of us. Great to see that you have chosen to return, and post, and trust we will be able to share through our commonality, although at the same time, I would caution you and me, that what one hears, their partner does not... and the variations of understanding can be quite great! That happens here on the list, in the business world... and in spirituality circles it would be even greater! I am willing to simply share my understandings. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10755 From: Susi Subject: The Anti Christ? Hello everyone, As I sat at my computer and downloaded the 113 emails I read through some and deleted most.....sorry but my time and patients is short today! Many of you have seen that Sterling constantly is trying to cast this list or its members as the work or workers of the Anti-Christ. I offer you all my explanation for this. When Sterling first joined and started posting about his Alphabetics and number games I thought this is very interesting and also my intuition was that I needed to save his post with links to his site so that I could venture there for a review. I felt there was something there I must learn. I saved the email and got side tracked for a few weeks. Finally he posted something else that reminded me I must check this out now so I followed the prompt and took a look. I thought I was looking for Alphabetics and number information so that I could apply them to myself and others that I know! Was I ever surprised to find that God had directed me there to uncover an even greater secret than this wonderfully mystical game of Alphabetics and Numbers that was so neatly wrapped up with pretty gospel. This was close to the same day that John K posted a post pertaining to any of us having the ability to find equal amounts of supporting evidence either for or against any given situation or scenario.....the synchronicity of that post and my going to Sterlings website are amazing to me....for if I had not read that post I might have forgotten this ever important principle or point which John K had just reminded me of. So what is so amazing and important at Sterlings website that I am compelled to reveal to all of you, now? In light of the negative shadow he has cast us all under, even those of you who have never posted and only lurk. His sword hath a might broad sweep me friends and I fear no matter who our Beloved Sterling comes into contact with he will wield this sword against if he thinks they may be more revered than he. So why already? I'll tell you what God within, on, near, and around me directed me to with in two or three clicks of visiting his sight and within the first page that I read. Sterling, using his Alphabetics and number game, has cast himself as the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ! So now you see and the information is available to all who seek it right there on his web site. I've forgotten the exact URL but I'm sure if you ask him he will offer it as his proof of said Messiah. This said I'm humbled to have Jesus amongst us.....but I ask why you have not come forward with any new teachings or enlightenment in your 2000 year absence from us in human form? The teachings you have given us are out of the bible while surely you must be aware that all things progress and expand in consciousness daily so I ask you why have your teachings not progressed beyond the poorly translated biblical text that you have used as your pillar and foundation of truth and proof of your existence. Jesus is my Brother! So if you can not love me and all of these misguided Anti-Christ deluded brothers and sisters on this list, how can you possibly proclaim yourself to be Jesus the one who died for all our sins (supposedly) but indeed the one who loved us all EQUALLY? I respectfully bow to your Lordship ;-) Further more I now understand why we are all misguided in thinking we are being guided by a higher Source because you are the higher Source and it is perfectly clear to me that in your eyes there can be only one! What is it that you would have us do to gain your respect and unconditional Love? If you are the Lord then ask and ye shall receive. Many Blessings;-) Susi P.S: It pains me to send this Sterling for I feel you are truly a gem and I do not wish to engage in this fight but I've been guided to do so and my guidance has helped me to create this phenomenon called "Heaven on Earth" so when I say I perceive this guidance as God and this same guidance has instructed me to post this information 3 times now I am obligated to do so out of respect for myself and God Equally. This same Guidance has worked through me to touch the lives of others very deeply in many positive ways so currently it is the only Source I trust in this ever increasingly deluded world. All material I receive is always checked through me and this Source prior to accepting it as a truth and so far you being Jesus has not resonated as Truth. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10756 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Latest list What do the '*' after the name mean in this list? Those are the members that receive the posts in digest mode, only one post per day that contains all the posts from the day before. The (-) after each name is the ax. If I click on it, that person becomes un-subscribed. I've got enough projects going already, so I'm not going to be starting editing lists for a while, if ever. It won't be easy matching up all the names with the details. Hmmm, now if I just had an assistant. That person could collect info that individuals shared and provide the latest revision, once a month. I also now receive a daily update e-mail of who has joined and quit the list. If the head of the welcoming committee could please e-mail me, I will set it up to forward you this list, as they come in, so you can welcome them. Lorraine was doing member bio's for a while. They were a great way to get to know each other. Perhaps she, or another, could revive this project. I think we all gain from opening up to each other and would like to think that sharing posts should always be [On Topic]. And all the members try a little harder to be accepting of people who think and speak a little differently. If we speak love to them, they will learn to speak it back. Something about "do unto others" ([Matt.Something:something] and somewhere in every other GOOD BOOK ever written besides), ya know. Group, stage 2, chaos? Pretty good, got to stage two in a year. Now how do we come to the peaceful, loving parts. Do we need me to be a watchdog, armed with an ax (-) and rules and regulations, or do we all open our hearts to each other and become one. The Molecule starts here. The conductor shouts. All aboard the Peace Train. And the Band played on. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10757 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: How To Overlook Truth You have been told not to make error real, and the way to do this is very simple. If you want to believe in error, you would have to make it true because it is not true. But truth is real in its own right, and to believe in truth you do not have to do anything. Understand that you do not respond to anything directly, but to your interpretation of it. Your interpretation thus becomes the justification for the response. That is why analyzing the motives of others is hazardous to you. If you decide that someone is really trying to attack you or desert you or enslave you, you will respond as if he had actually done so, having made his error real to you. To interpret error is to give it power, and having done this you will overlook truth. Compliments of ACIM (A Course In Miracles). JJ, I've seen you quote from the course, what do you think of it? Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10758 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: The Can of Soup That settles it then Chris, next picnic we have, you can bring the soup. Put plenty of meat in my cup. Brother Ray's book got 7 minutes on CBS news, Thursday, and his rating at Amazon.com went all the way up to 25 on Friday check him out at http://www.cbs.com/now/story/0,1597,151216-311,00.shtml Kinda puts the pinch on me, 'cause now I need to do some updating on our http://www.neanderthin.com page, like I didn't already have enough to do. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10759 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Fw: Why are we here? Judy Reese wrote: "I am trying to get rid of the word "Mabel" that shows up in my post???" Yeah. You gotta go into 'Newsgroups' and click 'Disable Mabel' LOL! Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10760 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 Craig Tholson wrote: "That was probably the best post I've read on this list so far. JJ's writings, the focus of this list, being exempt from the comparison." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10761 From: RWBH Subject: Ooops! & Getting Stoned...Dr. Stoned I just have to apologize for my delete misadventure which just set up Craig praising himself, according to my post. While here, maybe I could ask a question I've not yet tossed out. I mentioned having dealings with a site on spiritweb of a Dr. Stone (it's called The Melchizedek something) which has messages or purported messages from all sorts of the ascended Masters. I know Djwahl Khul was one of them. Forgive my ignorance, but is it a general belief here that this site and these ascended Masters are not legitimate. Is the DK featured on the Stone site a different one than JJ is talking about? Are these guys asleep now, or what? (which really sounds like a Tony Clifton question to me LOL, but seriously) Don't these Masters still communicate. According to this list's understanding. I hate to think I pulled out a ham sandwich on Friday at a Catholic church in 1953. Or is this an interesting little trip I took 'off site' full of potential? brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10762 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Ooops! & Getting Stoned...Dr. Stoned Hi Brain, This is just a short response because the answers to many of your questions can be found by going through the list archives as it's ground we've covered in the past. In this context, Samu's new search engine should prove invaluable. RWBH wrote: "I mentioned having dealings with a site on spiritweb of a Dr. Stone (it's called The Melchizedek something) which has messages or purported messages from all sorts of the ascended Masters. I know Djwahl Khul was one of them. Forgive my ignorance, but is it a general belief here that this site and these ascended Masters are not legitimate." Well, the site is there so in a sense it is genuine :-) Whether the teachings on it are is something people have to discern for themselves. I haven't been to the site for ages but I have his books and would have to say that much of what he says is true. That is because he has lifted almost all his teaching material from Bailey's books which I regard as truthful. But his non Bailey stuff doesn't resonate with me. Did you look at the list discussion on one of his prayers I posted yesterday? What did you think? If you read the archives and JJ's books, you will see that one of the cornerstones of his teachings relates to the work carried out by the Brotherhood of Light. The Masters are part of this Brotherhood. "Is the DK featured on the Stone site a different one than JJ is talking about?" There is only one DK. It is up to the individual to determine whether the claims people make about him are genuine, including whereto or not he has communicated through them. Many say they have channeled him. I'm skeptical - but then you know that already :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night." - Charlie Brown, Peanuts Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-23/10763 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? 6302 pauwy Price of redemption, the preserved/redeemed. Re: The Soul -- returning Home Sterling's comment: "Interesting that the very last word on page 666 would speak of the "price of redemption," which according to scripture is associated with what Jesus Christ did for us, as well as what is going to happen in these latter-days in the second advent in terms of a temporal deliverance from the physical captivity that is slated to come upon the world -- e.g. the reign of the beast." Okay then, I get the last word on 666 and the price of redemption. Jesus Christ is one who paid the price, yes, but so am I. For it was the Christ working in me that caused this mail list to be started, to hear the words of Christ come through our brother Joe, who speaks them so well. And it is the Christ speaking through me that invites everybody to come be one with our family. And Christ uses me, the lowest of the low, thrice divorced, gender dysphoric, aging hippy, burdened by law suits, can't get a date, single parent to put my reputation on the line, tear open my heart and make it an open book, in demonstration of the openness and trust PRICE that must be paid, by each of us to gather and preserve the REDEEMED. To become One. BTW the number for the redeemed is also 144 which is also "the Rock of salvation". I think my review of this 6302 has more of a positive slant to it, which I think I deserve. I think people will tell you, with all the s--- I have gone through, I still manage to keep a positive attitude, even while some of you are arguing in my living room. Poor Rick (I used to be Ben Franklin) -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10764 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Possible alternative interpretations Jennifer Hampson wrote: "Yes, I am quite aware of Neptune's various qualities. It's why madness and genius are cousins. Yet, in positive expression, it is visionary, universal, and spiritual. I have Neptune in Libra and Mercury in Libra (oriental) in my 10th House." "And what matches with RB is Neptune and Uranus. Neptune symbol is the trident or W because Neptune or Poseidon's trident. Uranus symbol is the modified H from its discoverer, Herschel." And in my initials, we find this child/RB similarity echoed: RWBH = RB + WH = RB Neptune Uranus. It's right there in my intials, and that's why I use RWBH as a name. It's more than just four initials. So would you think the similarity (and this cannot be an everyday occurrence) between said child and rwbh and rb and child might be echoed in the coded statement from Book of the Law: 'It shall be his child & that strangely'. Just wondering, since you might appreciate the astrological coincidences involved. I have Uranus in the 8th house, so of course there is going to be a karmic, past life, occult aspect to my Uranian self and experiences. Okay? brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10765 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Brian Stop the press: Brian, I just got your astrology email while writing the following. It's going to take a while to digest (which time I don't have right now.) I'll reply to you direct. I've been thinking (ouch!), especially after Blayne's post in your support, why did I get so personal in my emails to you. My conclusion is that you opened the gate into what I consider to be private area of one's life right from your first post, and I, with a lack of wisdom went in. I may have been virtually invited (after all you have made the personal public on your website) onto the property but I should have declined the invitation. I knew I didn't belong there so soon, in a stranger's territory. And I know that no good can come from being in the wrong place at the wrong time for either party, so I intuitively tried to shut the gate with my post suggesting you were going to draw flak. But I did it in a personal way because I was unconsciously responding in kind to the tone of your stuff. (Usually I write to people off-list if I have personal things to say to them.) What you wrote was very moving.... "fulfillment of a love within me for my mate that knows no bounds, time nor space. I lost someone I loved so much, who always seemed like another part of me, whose loss was the most impossible shocking thing I have ever had to face". ..... but, with due respect, it seems inappropriate for a grown man to lay bare his heart to people he doesn't know, (before you read a single post). I don't for a minute consider us swine LOL but why cast your pearls before you find out if they will be appreciated, why open yourself to be hurt or ridiculed before checking out the situation? What about leaving it to us to discover how loving (or whatever, or whoever) you are rather than telling us? I place very little value on 'self- report' , and generally find out more about a person by observing them in action. Also "how" a person does what he does, or says what he says can speak volumes. And you jumped right in, feet first, from the word go, before checking to see if the water was deep enough, or if there might be rocks under the surface. I'm all for taking leaps of faith, and spontaneity, but not for taking UNNECESSARY risks. You write...."I don't think I should hide that light under a bushel, as they say. I think my point of view is that people 'should' look into my story and information. See if they can catch the vision of what the Lord has done in my life." I don't think you 'should' hide your light either (in fact you can't if the viewer is discerning enough) but I don't think your approach will work precisely because people don't like being "should" upon. (And I note you have used quotation marks, and are aware of the connotations of this word.) Then you write ...."Lately, I'm thinking, it might be enough just to try to 'sell' the world on the fact I am the' reincarnation of RB, and that in itself could interest enough people that I may be able to bring light and truth of such things into a good many people's lives." I don't think it will work. Your story doesn't interest people enough, if this list is a pilot indicator. By and large people are much too concerned with themselves, and how to apply "light and truth" in their own lives to bother with the story of 'just another guy in a diner'. Everyone has got a story. Some are more enamoured with their own stories than are others. And some stories are more creative than others. I hear so many stories in my practice, that I hardly pay attention to the details any more because I've nearly always heard numerous variations on the same theme. So I pay attention to the underlying themes, the patterns, the process far more. Then you write...."But I find there is really very little new under the sun, and all is vanity, for the most part." You said it, babe! OK I'm not getting sucked in any more. Yell at me people if I do. All you've got here, Brian is my opinion, and opinions are, like stories, a dime a dozen and make no difference in the world. Best wishes Jennifer "I don't have any personal history. One day I found out that personal history was no longer necessary for me, and, like drinking, I dropped it." Don Juan, Journey to Ixtlan "My notion about service is that service is actually that kind of relationship in which you have a commitment to the person. Now I don't mean to the person's body or to the person's stomach or the person's almost anything. What I mean in fact is that for me what service is about is, being committed to the other being. To the other person spiritually. To who the other person is. Now the problem with that is that to the degree that you are in fact committed to the other person, you are only as valuable as you can deal with the other person's stuff, their evidence, their manifestation, and that is what service is about. Service is about knowing who the other person is, and being able to tolerate and give space to their garbage. "What most people do is to give space to people's quality and deal with their garbage. Actually you should do it the other way around. Deal with who they are and give space to their garbage. Keep interacting with them as if they were God. And every time you get garbage from them, give space to the garbage and go back and interact with them as if they were God. " Erhard Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10766 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Brian Jennifer Hampson wrote: "I don't have any personal history. One day I found out that personal history was no longer necessary for me, and, like drinking, I dropped it." Don Juan, Journey to Ixtlan" I love this quote, Jennifer. Thanks so much for sharing it. It validates a characteristic of mine that sometimes baffles my family and friends and that is my lack of interest in people's personal lives. I have been that way all my life and it can be hard going for friends because, for example, I'm not interested in gossip, even the most innocuous variety and I find it very hard to concentrate on the (to me) irrelevant details of people's lives as they always seem so unimportant compared to what is really going on in their lives. And the same goes for myself. I don't share personal details unless I'm asked a direct question, not because I'm unwilling to be open, but because I don't understand the relevancy of the persona I have adopted to who I really am. So, for example, if Lorraine asked me to do a bio on myself, I genuinely wouldn't know where to start. But I do my best to play the role and I think people must sense that because I'm often teasingly 'accused' by those close to me that I'm 'nothing but an actress'. I always laughingly protest at the label and say that it may very well be true but I almost always play myself so what does it matter :-) My real interest is people's hearts as to me that's where the real action is. Brian, for example, has revealed much of his heart over the last day or so which makes me almost (but not quite, Brian :-) regret getting so anal retentive about his making claims without backing them up with at least some kind of evidence. I was very impressed with his courteous responses to my provocative (and Yes, probably rude {sorry, Brian} ) emails. He showed that in this instance at least, he had a lot more heart than I did. Good for you, Brian (but don't get the wrong idea here - I'll still keep asking for evidence :-))) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night." - Charlie Brown, Peanuts Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10767 From: J J Dewey Subject: Comments 101 Lots of activity again my friends. I hope you don't expect me to comment on all your interesting points and questions. Judes, or Judy, (which do you like to be called?) mentioned that her feelings were hurt because I did not comment on her posts. I apologize to her and others who feel ignored for my time is limited and I am sure that there are times that not only the new people feel ignored, but some of my old friends also. That said, if you do ask a question that is important to you and I seem to overlook it please remind me by asking again. I want to officially welcome you Judes. I have read all your posts and enjoyed them and sense a spirit of harmless in you in normal circumstances. I apologize that you entered the list under fire and encourage you to be a regular poster and believe you will fit right in. There has been a lot of sensitive feelings exchanged lately and some judgmental attitudes present that usually do not surface on this list. I do not want to point fingers as that would just inflame things all the more. Instead I just want to encourage all of us to have a thicker skin and to just live and let live. Many problems occur in a group when we expect our view of perfection out of our friends and associates. That just never happens so a first step on the road to harmony is to accept that. I've always liked Joseph Smith statement on this. He said: "If you expect perfection out of me, then I will expect it from you." The second step is to accept that most people out there do not believe as you (the individual) does. Similar vision is possible through soul contact and similar belief often occurs when two are governed by one strong authority, but when people are allowed to be individuals, and not all have soul contact on all matters, then there will be a diversity of belief. The solution to this problem is not to et angry at those who think differently than ourselves, but in the word "acceptance." There is only one path to oneness, if we exclude the false oneness through the authority of the Beast, and that is through the soul, or Spirit, using Mormon language. If we see ourselves as being in the soul and wish others to be there, then the best we can do is share the light they are willing to receive, give them all the love they are willing to receive and wait for them to go within and discover the truth that is true. If the person never goes within in this lifetime - we must accept that this is where they are on the Path and that sooner or later they will come on board. There is nothing we can do to force them for the decision and discovery belongs to the individual alone. On second thought there is one thing you can do. You can be a loving and wise person to the degree that the student off the path will want to join you on the path and be one with you because of the radiation he feels from you. He may feel that if he does not follow in your footsteps that you may progress along the path to a point where he cannot follow unless he joins you in the soul. This effect given to the student through love is more forceful than a thousand armies attempting to move him from one place to another. Almost all the regular posters have either confronted me or disagreed with me on one occasion or the other. If I had gotten angry each time this has happened there would probably be zero members on this list today. One thing I can promise you will happen on this list is this. There will be responses that will tell the blunt truth as they see it. There will be responses where the one posting thinks of another post as utter nonsense. There will be posts where the writer will be nauseated at your favorite writer or guru. There will be postings where the writer thinks the group is all against him. There will be postings where the writer dissects another post line by line and refutes it using his best reasoning. There will be postings where the writer is alarmed at my teachings and thinks I'm leading the group astray. We must accept all of these differences. That which we should not accept however, is hot tempers and name calling. I would advice the group to ignore a person who seems to be displaying temper and move on. If there is any name calling I think the group should come down on the guy and let him (or her) know in posts that such a thing is just not acceptable. Hopefully we can save Rick the task of pushing the button for peace and police ourselves. If a disturbing individual realizes that his actions are just not acceptable to the group he will either leave or conform. By conform I do not mean think as others do without questioning, but just behave himself in a civilized manner. Craig asks: "JJ, I've seen you quote from the course, what do you think of it?" The book was definitely written by higher than normal human intelligence or standard channeling. The following is a repost of what I have written about the book in the past: Helen Schucman received the Course in Miracles through mental telepathy. Here is a description of it. "This period of preparation culminated on the evening of October 21, 1965, when the now familiar voice of Jesus said to Helen: "This is a course in miracles, please take notes." She called Bill immediately, and he reassured her that she was not going mad. He suggested she write down what was being dictated to her, and that he would look at it with her early the following morning at the office. Helen did just that, which is how the scribing of A Course in Miracles began. As Helen later described the experience: "The Voice made no sound, but seemed to be giving me a kind of rapid, inner dictation which I took down in a shorthand notebook. The writing was never automatic. It could be interrupted at any time and later picked up again. It made obvious use of my educational background, interests and experience, but that was in matters of style rather than content. Certainly the subject matter itself was the last thing I would have expected to write about." "The actual process of the scribing was not difficult, and for the most part flowed rather smoothly. Helen would write down Jesus' words in shorthand notebooks, and whenever she and Bill had time during a very busy schedule, she would dictate to Bill what had been dictated to her. Bill would then type it directly from Helen's dictation, acting as transcriber. It was truly a collaborative venture between them." One thing is certain here. Helen Schucman did not write the book using her own intelligence. Because it was given by real mental telepathy we know it was given by a high entity. The course indicates the transmitter was either Jesus or the Christ. Now the question is: Because the transmitter was using true telepathy and identified himself as Jesus, does this mean such is the case and we should believe it without question? No, of course not. How do we find out then? Actually that is what we have been talking about before we got sidetracked - how to discover truth. I have not forgotten about this subject and we will get back to it and finish it. Then when we are done it would be interesting to apply them to the Course. It doesn't matter if a revelation claims to be given by the highest methods from the highest god from the highest dimension - each seeker of truth has a personal responsibility to apply all the techniques at his disposal to test the words and eventually reflect then off your souls and see if they ring true. In reflecting the teachings of the Course (ACIM) off my soul I have had numerous things verified as true. However there are teachings in the book that have not been verified. The interesting thing is that the things that are not verified to me are doctrines that most students of ACIM have completely overlooked. For instance the book teaches that when you make the simple decision to leave this world and go home (which is the goal of the course) your body, the world around you, your friends, everything will completely disappear and the eternal unchanging world will appear before you and you will then eternally dwell there, never to be reborn. The problem is that not even one ACIM student to my knowledge has had this happen to them. All of them are still here with us except those who naturally die and death is not what the course is referring to. The Course also teaches that the creation of our universe with its billions of galaxies was a tremendous error and needs to be undone. On the other hand, it teaches that God is perfect, yet one way or another all creation came from Him so there seems to be a contradiction here. One may argue that the Son created the Universe and not the Father, but then the Father created the Son and if the Father and Son were perfect they would not go around making gigantic mistakes like creating universes that trap us for billions of years. Since the book was transmitted by true telepathy this rules out an astral entity. Here are the possibilities: (1) A Master such as Jesus or the Christ as the book states. (2) An advanced member of the Dark Brotherhood attempting to distract us from the real purpose of creation. (3) A Master out of harmony with the Hierarchy wanting to carve out a niche for himself. (4) The Higher Self of Helen Schucman. (5) An entity who has decided not to be and has never incarnated. He thinks incarnation is a great error and is trying to convince us to retrace our steps back to a static condition of "being." Which is correct? The time for the complete answer is not yet, but contemplating and seeking the truth for yourself is a great exercise in discovery. Glenys recently sent me some additional information on the book that may explain some of my misgivings. Apparently the current version of the book has been heavily edited and it has been discovered that an unedited original version exists in the hands of the A.R.E. Library. Glenys sent me a web page where this original text was posted but it apparently has been shut down. If any of you do stumble across a posting of this original text I would be interested in obtaining it. Brian asks: "Forgive my ignorance, but is it a general belief here that this site and these ascended Masters are not legitimate. Is the DK featured on the Stone site a different one than JJ is talking about? " A lot of people out there claim to channel DK and other masters, but there are several reasons I do not believe any I have read so far. First and foremost any student of the Bailey writings can tell that these channelings are not he same person or quality of intelligence speaking. Secondly DK stated clearly that he wasn't going to give more teachings to the world until 2025. Thirdly he has made it clear through Alice A. Bailey he does not speak through regular channeling methods. I have not seen writings lately that claim to have been given through a Master that I see as being of high enough quality to even be a high disciple speaking. Zia writes "So am I reading you correctly here JJ that the life of the teacher is not relevant in comparison to the teachings? It is one thing to put the teacher on a pedestal and worship him, quite another is it not to see the results of his teachings demonstrated in his own life, validating those teachings and setting an example as Christ certainly did? JJ I don't see anyone worshipping any physical teacher, especially me. Some come close to worshipping channeled spirits. Where do you get the idea that I would "think the life of the teacher is not relevant in comparison to the teachings?" Every teacher should attempt to live up to the highest he knows just like the rest of us. Zia: "How come Stalin was not considered an anti-Christ as was Hitler... did he not commit as many if not more atrocities than Hitler, that the world is not even still completely aware of??" JJ Stalin was actually more ruthless than Hitler was in many ways. Many of the people he put to death were his own supporters and countrymen. The difference between Hitler and Stalin was that Hitler was much more intelligent than Stalin and had a plan that could enslave humanity for a thousand years. Stalin had no workable plan. His only interest was glorifying himself. By the way I examined Susan's handwriting. The problem is that there is quite a few years between the two samples. I would have to see handwriting a short time before and a short time after a suspected walk-in to speak with reasonable surety. As it is even though there are quite a few years between the two samples and they look quite different to the layman about 75% of the characteristics are the same and with the time difference they could have easily been written by he same person - so I can not cite this as evidence of a walk in. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10768 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [JJ] Comments 101 "For instance the book teaches that when you make the simple decision to leave this world and go home (which is the goal of the course) your body, the world around you, your friends, everything will completely disappear and the eternal unchanging world will appear before you and you will then eternally dwell there, never to be reborn." I would like to stand up here JJ and repeat what I have already said once on this list (The Soul - returning home) that this statement is absolutely correct from my remembering (as far as words allow ...) and the experiences I have had with people dying and being born within my group and the remembering of my own separation from the physical body during the times of my "clinical deaths" in this life time I cannot prove it .. nor will I try .. and my perception of my experiences is my perception translated through the words of the English language which is inadequate ... Those who are able to telepath with me in the silence have "seen" what I "saw" and have an understanding of what I clumsily try to translate ... perhaps the words attributed to Jesus "rejoining (his) Father'" are appropriate in this context. Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-25/10769 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Comments 101 - ACIM J J Dewey wrote: "Glenys recently sent me some additional information on the book that may explain some of my misgivings. Apparently the current version of the book has been heavily edited and it has been discovered that an unedited original version exists in the hands of the A.R.E. Library. Glenys sent me a web page where this original text was posted but it apparently has been shut down. If any of you do stumble across a posting of this original text I would be interested in obtaining it." Me too, please. I've done a search but came up with nothing, even though it was supposed to be on several sites. Maybe the lawyers got to them (there is a huge legal battle going on for people who are not familiar with this development re ACIM) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night." - Charlie Brown, Peanuts Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10770 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 RWBH wrote: "On the other hand, real valuable people that are also into occultism all value Blavatsky's teachings greatly. No wonder." OCCULT......take the time to look it up in the dictionary. I DARE you. I double DARE you. Occult or occultism is what our government practices in it's behind doors meetings. It's what all little children practice when they are keeping little secrets. It's what we all practice at Christmas time when we are hiding presents. Please stop misusing the word. It's like the word gay, which is also a very MISused word. One person gets a "fat head" idea to describe something, and all the little sheep follow obediently behind. Face your own truth and speak distinctly and clearly.... PLEASE Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10771 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [JJ] Comments 101 .. 2 "One may argue that the Son created the Universe and not the Father, but then the Father created the Son and if the Father and Son were perfect they would not go around making gigantic mistakes like creating universes that trap us for billions of years." May I respectfully suggest *** that the son can descend from the father without the father creating the son .... *** this is possible if we remove the preconception that birth is an act of "will" or creation ... *** the question is did the father create the son or did the son, already existent within the father *** separate himself from the father. *** This I would suggest is how it was .. as it allows the concept of "father to remain in perfection" albeit .. missing a piece ... *** which seek the return .. Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10772 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [Glenys] Re: Comments 101 - ACIM "I've done a search but came up with nothing, even though it was supposed to be on several sites. Maybe the lawyers got to them (there is a huge legal battle going on for people who are not familiar with this development re ACIM)" There is or was an ACIM list on the onelist server .. I dropped off it because of the name calling and all of the legal stuff going on at the time ... They split ... after being booted off spiritweb .. or that's how it was perceived after some perceived strange behaviour from the list op Description The Course Talk list is a conversation place for students/teachers of "A Course in Miracles"(c). While a moderated list, the utmost care will be taken to see that view, expressed respectfully, will be welcome. It is realized that, with ACIM being an extremely personal course in self study, there are apt to be as many interpretations of the material as there are it's students. Any and all interpretations may be discussed. Just as there are sure to be different interpretations of the Course, there are sure to be different approaches. Discussions may range from the intellectual to the intuitive. As long as the discussion centers on the thought system presented in ACIM, it's application on a personal level, or other Course-related material, it will be encouraged. Differences of opinion are to be expected and, to some extent, even encouraged as they can lead to lively, enlightening, and/or entertaining conversation, but all are asked to remember that differences can be expressed with deference rather than combativeness. "A Course in Miracles" (c) is copyright by The Foundation for a Course in Miracles. " A Course in Miracles" and "ACIM" are registered trademarks of that Foundation. The Course Talk list has no affiliation with the Foundation for A Course in Miracles or any other organization or entity and is entirely independent. It is dedicated to the free expression and exploration of ideas pertaining to ACIM (tm). Opinions expressed on the list are the author's and not necessarily those of the Foundation. For more information: mailto:Course_Talk-owner@onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-25/10773 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: [Glenys] Re: Comments 101 - ACIM Thanks, Christopher! I appreciate your passing this on :-) If I can't locate the document, I may have to join the list to try to get it (the things I do for the Light! :-) For those who are interested, this site will give you more information on the controversy http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srcoursehlcversion.html Love Glenys Christopher Wynter wrote: "There is or was an ACIM list on the onelist server .." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night." - Charlie Brown, Peanuts Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10774 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: Re: Why are we here? (OT)?? Editor's Note: Repeat post of No. 10739 Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10775 From: Marylin Subject: OT ASK NOT ASK NOT I asked God to take away my pride. God said "No," It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. I asked God to make my handicapped child whole. God said "No," Her spirit is whole, her body is only temporary. I asked God to grant me patience. God said "No," Patience is a byproduct of tribulations; it isn't granted, it is earned. I asked God to give me happiness. God said "No," I give you blessings, happiness is up to you. I asked God to spare me pain. God said "No," Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me. I asked God to make my spirit grow. God said "No," You must grow on your own, but I will prune you to make you fruitful. I asked for all things that I might enjoy life. God said "No," I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things. I asked God to help me LOVE others, as much as he loves me. God said... Ahhhh, finally you have the idea! Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10776 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: [JJ] Comments 101 .. 2 I agree..Christopher...and what about Divine will? We know WHEN we are not in accordance with Divine Will by our conscience and "that small voice within"..so maybe not listening to "this voice" started with the First Son and kept getting progressively worse.. and worse and worse and...... Judes. Christopher wrote: "One may argue that the Son created the Universe and not the Father, but then the Father created the Son and if the Father and Son were perfect they would not go around making gigantic mistakes like creating universes that trap us for billions of years." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10777 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Any Prophets Out There???? RWBH writes: "Anybody on the List want to make a prediction of what ??? might come back to me? I predict that you will go one of two ways. You will either "see the light bulb" over your head and stay with us, or you will only see "the darK" and leave us. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10778 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: OT ASK NOT Shivers!!!! When it rings...it just rings with truth! Thanks.Marylin Judes Marylin writes: "ASK NOT" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-25/10779 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [Judes] Comments 101 .. 2 "I agree..Christopher...and what about Divine will? We know WHEN we are not in accordance with Divine Will by our conscience and "that small voice within"..so maybe not listening to "this voice" started with the First Son and kept getting progressively worse.. and worse and worse and...... Judes." Absolutely correct in my humble opinion ... and the latest genetic research into the human DNA shows that there are genes in there that have that remembering that have been dated (controversially) over 300 million years old .. and they are in the cells of our bodies .. here .. now Christopher Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10780 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: The Soul -- returning Home Rick Audette wrote: "And I'm certainly not saying we can't lift references. I'm simply saying that if a reference is worthy of quoting, it is surely worthy of quoting within its own context. Or maybe you disagree?" "If I meant to quote the Bible, I would have put "" around it and given [Matt 6:31-33], in brackets. What I was doing was paraphrasing something from my own writings, in a less formal form than the original text found at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/diyg06.htm check it out and see how close I was to saying what was said there." Oh my, Rick. How could I have been so foolish as to think that your words were associated with or lifted from the bible? Gee, it seems so obvious to me now. But I'll still stand on what I said, that people all over the place DO in fact lift portions of their favorite "sources" and use them to make their own points. And quite frankly, I don't really care that you used these words in a writing of your own. And I don't care that you might have had another "context" in which you used them. The fact still remains that words like these, which are almost cliche on a spiritual list such as this, are automatically associated with the originating source, unless the secondary source is cited. Oh oh oh, but I'm sure another can say, "that's YOUR problem if you READ INTO what was said and ASSUUUUUME that the source is the one YOU are thinking of". That my friend, is hogwash! And it is a tactic I'd sooner expect of "Zor", than I would of you. And quite frankly, if this kind of thinking (self justification) ever becomes the prevailing method of exchange on this list, then you can go ahead and click that little "(-)" button where it appears next to my name. John Kosior Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10781 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Walk-Ins + "And my 6-year-old son is learning to cook and sew and soon will have a new niece/nephew to help take care of. Will he have an advantage that the "older" young men of today won't/don't/may not have? Sunshine" He most definitely will. When my first son was born, my dad was very adamant that i give him a doll, the purpose of which was to help him to learn gentleness. It worked. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10782 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? Susi, In your case, my "interpretation" of the match between number 6299 of the Hebrew OT (Old Testament) word definition and keys post 6299, which was your comment regarding "choosing gender," was favorable toward what you had written. And I would guess that most people on this list would both agree with what you wrote for the most part as well as with the applicability of word number 6299 in the Hebrew. What this illustrates is a true principle pointed out by several list members, namely that like the world at large has macrocosm manifestations of Christ versus anti-Christ, so do each of us individually have within us both Christ and anti-Christ elements. It is when we overcome the anti- Christ portion that we become fully in harmony with the Christ. I too have both within me. And as a group, we exhibit both facets as well. Indeed, I would confess that there may be times that my expressions here on this list are influenced by that portion within me that is yet anti- Christ. But likewise that my sincere aim is to always speak in harmony with the highest that I know, which is going to be much more aligned with Christ. You asked if I could provide a context of the entire page 666 of Gesenius. That I have already done, though I did not include every little explanation provided on the page, such as the Hebrew phrases and all the scripture verses. I suppose I could make a photocopy of page 666 and post it. As for your application of the definition for word 6299 to yourself by virtue of the fact that yours was post 6299 is something I had not anticipated, but as you pointed out various correlations, I was impressed that there was an application to be had at least in this case. I've learned in my experience with unraveling the codes that we should not limit God by saying what does and does not go. Really, the possibilities are endless. I thought you did a good job of drawing connections, and would not seek to amend what you said, especially seeing as I don't know you and your circumstances. I sense you have been honest in the appraisal. I've posted your comments to http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/KeysPage666.htm following word 6299 Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10783 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Page 666 and the Keys of Knowledge list Glenys, Where in have I insulted anyone? Please quote me? I made a comment about my observation of how Christ is esteemed in my estimation on list. I am sorry its not as favorable as you like, but I call them as I see them it was a general observation. If I am wrong then show me where? And yes its not personal, an insult would be "so and so is an idiot because he believes this or that". I have not said anything like that. But oh the gall of me to speak my mind without attacking anyone personally. As I have said before I deal with ideas and doctrines not the person. I am sorry being truthful and honest about my observations is not always warm and fuzzy. I keep hearing how Sterling and I are fundamentalist type Christians fresh from organized religion etc. Well not that it will make any difference but I am no more a Mormon or Christian than JJ is. Sterling and I have left organized religion long ago. excuse us if we hold some truths in common with those religions. JJ does quote scripture quite a lot much more then Sterling and I so you might want to watch what the broad brush paints. I have to chuckle when I hear these generalizations because most Christians would not consider me a Christian based on my beliefs. In fact I have been accused of being new age etc.. So its easy to label one when they do not perform according to your script. But then where is all this looking inside, and finding peace, accepting one for who they are etc., that I keep hearing about?. There seems to be a few pundits on this list that can't take any critical analysis, granted none of us are perfect at it, but too many here want the benefit of assailing anyone's else beliefs but cry foul the minute they are challenged in theirs! So I'll use an old cliche: clean your own porch before assess anyone else's. And Glenys I do have a soft spot for you too believe it or not :-). Love Blayne Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10784 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? Rick says: "Okay then, I get the last word on 666 and the price of redemption. Jesus Christ is one who paid the price, yes, but so am I. For it was the Christ working in me that caused this mail list to be started, to hear the words of Christ come through our brother Joe, who speaks them so well. And it is the Christ speaking through me that invites everybody to come be one with our family. And Christ uses me, the lowest of the low, thrice divorced, gender dysphoric, aging hippy, burdened by law suits, can't get a date, single parent to put my reputation on the line, tear open my heart and make it an open book, in demonstration of the openness and trust PRICE that must be paid, by each of us to gather and preserve the REDEEMED. To become One. "BTW the number for the redeemed is also 144 which is also "the Rock of salvation". I think my review of this 6302 has more of a positive slant to it, which I think I deserve. I think people will tell you, with all the s--- I have gone through, I still manage to keep a positive attitude, even while some of you are arguing in my living room. Poor Rick (I used to be Ben Franklin)" fair enough defense. comment posted following 6302 http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/KeysPage666.htm Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10785 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Brian "I have fired off an email to a Crowley resource site, hoping to find on line the Blavatsky review I mentioned." I have it in a collection of his works, but have not had that volume in my personal effects for a number of years, so cannot easily access it. But I have a bible given to me in 1971. So I guess that says something, too. By all means ask for evidence. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10786 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Comments 101 From reading JJ's most recent response to various questions, it becomes obvious to me why he, at least, is qualified to wear the Teacher hat here. He is by far the most patient and sane individual on this site LOL. So he can drive the bus, fly the plane, captain the ship, what have you. Now I'll have to look up that astrological chart of his I heard mentioned in archives, so I can see whether he is really 'all that' like he seems; or if he's got some help from a more stable starry nature than moi, who has considerable fire to deal with. I do wish, however, he would name names on occasion; because I automatically think he is talking about me everytime he mentions some 'undesirable'. "Uh...brian...he IS talking about you!" --the group. Brian "Better to burn out than to rust." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10787 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: The Anti Christ? Hi Susi and everyone, With whatever tool used in reading, be it numerology, astrology and whatnot, it is the reader's intuition or insight by which the reading is given. It is not the mechanical calculation or material means that does the reading. Two readers would come up with two completely different readings looking at the same numbers, for instance. Those who were not capable of consulting with their own soul's intuition but needed help from others would fall into superstition to the extent to which they blindly believed readings by others. Soul contact is not just a means for verifying perennial truths. Soul contact is the only way to get to perennial truths. Each has to find these truths by themself, never through others except as triggers or environmental stimuli. If one was in contact with soul they would know that duality is one. They would be able to see that the Christ would not work without the antichrist, good could not be found without evil in its proximity and God would not be God without Devil around. The knowledge of good and evil would become the knowledge of one life once contemplated by the soul. Contact the soul and you will see the total truth of which the mind only sees parts or separate truths. Any form of fanaticism is a way of insisting on separate truths. Where Devil rules and antichrist fights the Christ and salvation would be an impossibility. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com_ Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10788 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Gathering of Lights 10 Case in point why I guess I'm not qualified to be a nice guy teacher type. Patience and such tell me to respond kindly with sweetness and clarifying the issue. But instead, I can't help telling this person she is the most 'occult' person I've met on the list so far...because I can't fathom what the heck she's talking about. Now that's dwelling hidden or occult side of things. "Please stop misusing the word. It's like the word gay, which is also a very MISused word. One person gets a "fat head" idea to describe something, and all the little sheep follow obediently behind. Marylin" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10789 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Walk-Ins + I sure wish my Father would give Me a doll! "When my first son was born, my dad was very adamant that i give him a doll, Marylin" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-24/10790 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Post 666 -- alternate interpretations? "Poor