2000 - WEEK 3 Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10212 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) Xavier, Your pride and ego have betrayed you. This mormon tackled himself and used the new age for a Band-Aid. I'm still wondering if you guys put any meat in this lemonade stand disguised as a list! Love, Craig Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10213 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) Craig, Feel free to feed us your platter of "meat" for this lemonade stand. We await your choicest morsels to enlighten us. We are here to learn. Love to all. Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10214 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) I told you you'd get into trouble, Xavier! :-))) Craig, I guess you've worked out that Xavier was only joking. He would be one of the least proud on the list - in fact, he's very self-effacing. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses. - C. G. Jung Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10215 From: J J Dewey Subject: Annalee Skarin Norman asks about Annalee Skarin. I think she was on the right track in a lot of her teachings, but she was not a Master and did succumb to the art of deception. Deceptiveness has been the downfall to many teachers and in the end winds up throwing a suspicion over the things they write which is true. This is why it is so important to run all things by your soul. Perhaps the most important ingredient to achieving any true translation or the overcoming of death is complete honesty in all that is taught. Withholding information is often done by the Masters, but any intentional dishonesty buts a veil between the seeker and the soul. I have also heard that Baird T. Spalding who wrote the Teachings of the Masters of The Far East never even visited the places described in his books and thus the story part of the account was fictionalized even though it is presented as true. If this is true it means the teachings also came from his mind and not the Masters. I have no concrete proof of this, but even if it is fictionalized obviously Baird did a lot of studying of true materials and presented many truths therein. The trouble is that there are also many things that are not true and again the need for the importance of checking with the inner light. If anyone has additional proof one way or another about Spalding I'm sure the group would be interested. It is interesting that many "inspired" books and teachings that are based on fiction are presented as true, yet mine is presented as fiction and I'm sure contains more true teachings than most. Here is some interesting information on Annalee. She is not alone in claiming to be translated yet dying a natural death. Ekankar claims Paul Twitchel ascended even though he is dead and buried, as well as Mark prophet who founded the church Universal and Triumphant - now headed by Elizabeth Prophet. The Death of Annalee Skarin In October, 1994, Annalee Skarin "was found in the one place she told thousands she would never go..." Annalee Skarin, aka Nan Mathews, died on Sunday 17 January 1988 at 9:50am, at the Cedars Convalescent Hospital, Red Bluff, California, where she had spent the last two years of her life. She was 88 years old. Annalee's husband, Reason Skarin, died in 1982. Her gravestone at the Sunset Hill Cemetery, Corning, California, reads: "Nan Mathews also known as Analee Skarin who visited on earth from 1899 to 1988 Gone to skip rope with a rainbow along the milkyway." Her funeral, held on 20 January, was attended by six people. Paid for by her landlady - Annalee had told her that she had no family. Annalee was re-baptised into the LDS Church on June 15, 1995. Her temple blessings were restored on June 20, 1995. Annalee was born at American Falls, Idaho, on 7 July, 1899, the ninth child of Frederick John Kohlhepp and Mary Ella Hickman. Her father, a Jewish convert to mormonism, died when Annalee was nineteen. She was the grand-daughter of William Adams Hickman. Her first marriage to _____ Gorman ended in annulment. She had a male child who died at nine months. After the marriage ended she served a mission in California where she met Reason Skarin - her true love. However, they were not to marry for another twenty-one years. Annalee was to express that it was the forces of darkness that had kept them apart. She lived with him in her heart, and he, with a tiny photo of her on his mantelpiece. After her mission she wed Hugo Avarell in 1922 and had another son, who died at birth, and two daughters - Linda Moat and Hope A. Hilton. It was an unhappy marriage that lasted until 1943. When her daughters were teenagers Annalee left for Buffalo, New York, and married the real love of her life. Reason Skarin was a convert from her California mission. It appears that Annalee Skarin went to great lengths to keep her whereabouts hidden, both in life and death, or so her eldest daughter Hope Hilton believes. Hope and her husband searched diligently for more than thirty years to find her mother - the last time Hope saw Annalee was in May 1952 in Chicago. At that time Annalee was on her way to Salt Lake City. In June she would be excommunicated from the LDS Church - two weeks later she would claim to have "translated". It should be noted that Hope, herself, played a part in Annalee's excommunication. Her husband submitted a study he made of Annalee's books to a church elder, Mark E. Petersen, outlining disagreeable elements in her work. Hope fully supported her husband's actions. In an article in Sunstone April, 1991, Hope wrote that her mother "was a paranoid schizophrenic who listened to an inner voice whose tapes were often garbled. She was a dramatic actress who sought center stage and applause while proclaiming humility. She was a master of cover-up which only those on the inside could see." She believes that Annalee's "translation" was a means of escape after her excommunication. "She chose this route and, once chosen, it could not be reversed. If her earthly body was found subject to mortality her claim would be exposed to the world as a lie." Whenever Hope would visit her younger sister, Linda, they would argue about their mother's sanity. Both have lists of more than twenty different addresses where Annalee and Reason Skarin lived since 1952, as well as numerous aliases they both used, to keep their identities veiled. Reason quit his job as a police officer a year before he was due to receive a pension. The latter years of both their lives are reported to have been spent in poverty. In the last years of Annalee's life the State of California was paying for all of her needs. When Annalee died she left a $1400 debt owed to the State that was paid by her landlady. How did Hope find her mother after all those years? She sent $5 to Mr Charles H. Crookston in San Francisco to locate her mother's death certificate. The only information Hope could supply was her mother's name and birthdate and the name of her last husband. Mr Crookston initially did a search for the death certificate of Reason Skarin due to his unusual name. This proved easy to find. As Reason needed a free burial place in the service section of the cemetery, documents disclosing his identity were necessary. The discovery of Reason Skarin's death certificate lead to the death certificate of Nansela Mathews, aka Annalee Skarin. Her death certificate number: 3- 88-52-000029 Did Annalee Skarin shroud herself in mystery to keep the focus away from her personality, or did she purposely create an alluring veil of intrigue with the intention of gathering a dedicated audience? If the focus was not to be on herself why did she write the The Sons of God under the pen name of Christine Mercie... Those interested in further details should read: "The Puzzle of Annalee Skarin: Was She Translated Correctly?", by Samuel W. Taylor "A Daughter's Response or The Inside View", by Hope A. Hilton Both articles in "Sunstone", Volume 15:1, April, 1991. "Solving the Mystery of Annalee Skarin the Disappearing Mystic", by Carolyn Campbell - Hope Hilton, respondent Audio tape 224 All of the above are available from Sunstone Foundation, 343 North 300 West, Salt Lake City, UT 84103-1215 Also, The Marriott Library in Salt Lake City holds the Hope Hilton collection with extensive material and documents covering the life of Annalee Skarin, including her last unpublished manuscript. Annalee Skarin's Letters Additional Comments Found in a Discussion Group Yes, she was very human, and like many humans she is now very dead. Whatever she wrote about in her books, whatever beautiful thoughts she had about radiating joy, love and gratitude, it was not enough to guarantee her own bodily immortality. Incidents of her teleporting are at best anecdotal. Her death is a fact. Annalee has been dead for over ten years now. She suffered from arteriosclerotic heart disease for three years ( a common complaint of old age), and spent two years of her life in a wheel-chair, before dying in a Californian hospital from pulmonary edema and respiratory failure in 1988. She was eighty-eight years old. Her third husband, Reason Skarin, died six years before her of a similar ailment. Anyone can visit her grave at Sunset Hill Cemetery in Corning, California. A rainbow and stars are carved features on her tombstone. Far from teleporting, Annalee and Reason Skarin lived at more than 25 earthly addresses, went by numerous aliases (Annalee is buried under one of those aliases, Nan Mathews, a fact her daughter says proves Annalee did not want anyone to know of her death), and lived in poverty. Her last residence was 70 Gilmore Road, Red Bluff, Tehama County, California. Her husband worked several jobs here and there to pay the rent while Annalee typed. Her last manuscript "Pathway to the Gods" was never published because her lawyer, who handled all her work, thought she'd become senile, and the book a ridiculous fantasy. Her publishers will verify that she was also the author of "Sons of God", using the pseudonym Christine Mercie. This point is worth noting because she professed to shun any interest in her personal life and this book gives the reader a small but rare insight into the personal life of both her and her husband. Anyone claiming to have met the Skarins in the last fifteen years is either hallucinating or making up tall tales to impress everyone. Many Immortalists like her have died, and if you don't want to get caught up in romantic fantasies and are really interested in physical immortality, you should search out the true facts and not be disheartened by them. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10216 From: Mark D Williams Subject: OT: Blood, Life, Virgins & Maidens I believe JJ said in an earlier post [though don't quote me :)] that the phrase, "Blood of Christ," was symbolic or figurative for the "Life of Christ," and that we were "saved" [so to speak] by the Life of Christ. Deuteronomy 12:23 does in fact state to "not eat the blood, because THE BLOOD IS THE LIFE [Emphasis mine], and you must not eat the life with the meat." Also regarding the Virgin Birth (and I think Rick made a post earlier in this regard), it is interesting that of the 26 times that the word "virgin" appears in the Old Testament, 24 times the Hebrew word that is being translated as "virgin" is "beth?wl,h." In the other 2 instances it is "alm,h." According to Strong's [1330], "beth?wl,h" means, "fem. pass. part. of an unused root mean. to separate; a virgin (from her privacy); sometimes (by continuation) a bride; also (fig.) a city or state;--maid, virgin. "Alm,h" [5959] means "fem. of 5958 ("Elem"--a lad, young man, stripling), a lass (as veiled or private):--damsel, maid, virgin. In Isaiah 7:14 when it says, "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Immanuel", the word being translated as "virgin" is "alm,h." Though both words may be translated as "virgin," if the prophecy really meant a woman who has not yet had sexual relations wouldn't the word, "beth?wl,h," have been a better choice to deliver a clearer meaning? The Greek [Strong's, 3933] word translated as "virgin" is "parthenos." The definition is given as "of unknown or.; a maiden; by impl. an unmarried daughter:--virgin." On the other hand, it is interesting that we have a word for the development of an egg without fertilization. It is "parthenogenesis" and if I remember correctly this sometimes occurs in nature. The Parthenon in Athens was dedicated to the worship of Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom who sprang full-grown from the head of Zeus. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10217 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Whom Say Ye That I Am? And Jesus answering said, "What?" Sorry I'm late Mr. President. This one knocked me 10 light years away into the star system of "splitting a gut". Anyone heard from Jesus on this one yet? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10218 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) I feel he's joking, for sure, but he's right about my pride and ego. lol Glenys Lowery wrote: "I told you you'd get into trouble, Xavier! :-)))" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10219 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: Dogma JJ So you think my book is so powerful that the world is going to make even the fictional parts into a Bible or build legends around it? I think you overestimate me. Yes, JJ, your book and teachings are THAT powerful. Now, the question is; even though you are not being dogmatic or have intention to be dogmatic[and if only Truth is true]...how do WE as students and you as a teacher keep these teachings from being or appearing to be dogmatic. Especially since most of us were entrenched in dogmatic religions..and escaped to the illusionary havens of New-Age dogma; and have now found our way[hopefully as verification] to this WELL for the thirsty? What I mean is that; as these teachings unfold...there will be profound truth; which is already evident...so it will also approach a state of dogma...because even though those who hear it form verification will "get" it....others that haven't gotten that verification will see it as dogmatic and irrefutable. So, do you have any "insights" on this? Many of us are petrified of DOGMA...because the disdain for it started us on out paths to begin with. And if we are initiated by ourselves in alignment with God's purpose to become teachers in the future...how do we teach without being dogmatic? Well...I just got the answer as I wrote that last sentence. Did anyone else. already get this? The "answer" is explained by the evaluation of a teacher of the highest truths would only teach "new insights" or information that they would receive through verification. Is that the answer..JJ? Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10220 From: Marylin Subject: Still back at Key 1 Hi JJ and all It sometimes seems as if we have drifted away a bit from learning what the first key is, but then we needed all the additional information also. We've been given boocoos of hints and I was just sitting and thinking about it one day last week. Then I ran across something someone said that "lit the bulb" again. And the following words were literally given to me as the first key: "I am all that I have been, and I am becoming that which I wish to become." That is who and what I am. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10221 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) Mahonri writes "Sterling D. Allan" wrote: "Why can't you who do not have the Christian background likewise take a large leap away from your traditional metaphysical mainstream (if there is such a thing) and realize that there is something to Jesus on the cross. There is a saving power in what he did for us. That is where I am coming from." "In my opinion, the best of both worlds is as I just stated. The Christ Consciousness idea that teaches that all have the godly potential within them; AND the atonement of Jesus Christ that makes this ascension possible." "Sterling, I would say that this is what real Mormonism is about. Mahonri" Yes... and real Catholicism, and real Buddhism, and real Islam. . . It is at the central hub where denominations cease to be relevant, representing the highest expression of each of these. Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10222 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: Links for newbees I must be overlooking something because I can only get to a few archived messages from 1998? What am I missing there to get the other weeks? If it is confusing to me perhaps it is to others? I gave up and stick to Samu's archives. Susan Rick Audette wrote: "There's a list of links found at the bottom of the archives page that we've been editing at http://members.xoom.com/keysarchive/ the welcoming letter to new members could send them there as one of the places to start." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10223 From: RWBH Subject: How To Subcribe Could someone please tell me how to subscribe to the keys list, so that I can read the current postings? I can only get list archive somewhat old. A brief note to davids outcasts would be great for me. thanks/rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10224 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Fw: Dogma Judes wrote: "JJ, So you think my book is so powerful that the world is going to make even the fictional parts into a Bible or build legends around it? I think you overestimate me." "Yes, JJ, your book and teachings are THAT powerful. Now, the question is; even though you are not being dogmatic or have intention to be dogmatic [and if only Truth is true]...how do WE as students and you as a teacher keep these teachings from being or appearing to be dogmatic." Hi Judes, What you are saying, Judes, unveils the nature of all religious and spiritual beliefs. These beliefs tend to be dogmatic because these are socially conditioned fixed ideas repeatedly confirmed on the deepest level of human consciousness. Beliefs are mental crystallization, the most externalized expression in the mental order of the Idea of divine mind. Beliefs are thus restricted and limited. One can easily see how necessary it is to break loose from such restrictive crystallization in order to emulate the divine Idea. The so-called verification by the soul is not so much to check whether a personal belief is true or not as whether a personal belief reflects the soul's intuition or not. The personality or the mind is not equipped of its own innate power to produce spiritual truths or to verify spiritual or religious beliefs. Information and beliefs and systems thereof are necessary tools provided by the personality so that the soul's work of expressing the divine Idea may become possible. The soul's chief tool of expression however is her own intuitions of realities. Spiritual erudition does not possess what is needed to indicate to the aspirant or disciple what they are to follow in their path. Their only teacher is their soul, the spokesman of their spirit. This is what Jesus was making a general reference to when he refused to be called master. There is only one master or teacher in the real sense and that is the Father, all-wise and all-intelligent. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10225 From: "Craig Tholson" Subject: Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) I thought the cool-aid stand thing and meat would be a dead give away that levity was inserted. Xavier Dolleans wrote: "I feel he's joking, for sure, but he's right about my pride and ego. lol" Glenys Lowery wrote: "I told you you'd get into trouble, Xavier! :-))) Craig, I guess you've worked out that Xavier was only joking. He would be one of the least proud on the list - in fact, he's very self-effacing." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10226 From: RWBH Subject: Spiritual/Celestial/Soul Mates I'm not sure just what keys-1 is discussing at the moment, as I just signed on. But I would like to bring up a topic of deep personal importance which seems to only indirectly dealt with vis a vis discussions on polygamy (the whole JS debate which I seek to evade for the moment). In my younger days, I met and experienced a highly significant relationship with a girl whom I would call a spiritual mate (celestial mate for Mormon backgrounders). We were 'sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise when she, inspired by the Holy Ghost, told us as much. The entire story of this relationship is dealt with in detail at my site:http://www.bais.nu. Since Beverly Anne and myself would be better known to readers as the Victorian poet pair Robert and Elizabeth Browning, it may be of more than personal interest to you. Or not. I have been apart from BA since 1972. We separated, she met another man, and is still married to him. My understanding is that she resumed a relationship with her then-father, as their life together now as husband and wife seems grounded in the happy family energy from then. I understand that our separation was 'meant to be', as a reading of my Book of Ba (on site) will explain. However, this arrangement brings one question to mind I would like to throw out to the list for possible discussion. She still acknowledges that 'we are spiritual mates'. However, she says she doesn't see us together again in this life, maybe the next (?). My own perspective is that speaking first from principles, it seems to me that an eternal spiritual relationship with another person is the highest relationship two people can have or realize; and that just as the celestial supercedes the lower telestial or terrestrial, in our lives, a celestial type relationship should have some importance as such. To make the principles real, of course I must in my situation, retain some recognition and respect for her present marriage and situation. Yet all along the past 28 years, I have felt very ignored and devalued because this other man has totally replaced me in her life. Our spiritual relationship is something she only pays lip service to. Many years ago, in grappling with the situation, I went for the old 'why can't we just be friends' (losers lullaby LOL) but she wouldn't even do that. My observation is that my spiritual marriage with BA has deteriorated into a facsimile of the same rift in the 'marriage' between Jesus the husband and the Church formal as the bride. Admittedly a Mormon slant here, but I think just as the church proper seems lost in material and worldly pursuits, pays lip service to the husband Jesus Christ, and the Lord is aghast at how he has been shunted aside from leadership, devotion, respect and importance...similarly, as the husband is to love the wife as the Lord loves the Church...I am blessed with such a similar/parallel situation with my own spirit bride (basically rejecting the spiritual groom) that I can understand as much as a human could Jesus' own situation re: the fallen Church. So first question. I know we have free will I treasure it as much as anyone. But if even just in principle, am I wrong to feel that BA 'ought to' show some greater respect and honor, not for me specifically, but our sacred relationship? I've asked her why can't I have a relationship with her based on our spiritual bonds, while she enjoys her current marriage which seems her ideal. All I got from this approach was continued refusal to talk to me from her, and an ignorant putdown from her hubby telling me the spiritual stuff when we were young was just kids stuff, and that it is absurd to think she would be in heaven with me, after spending most of her life with him. She is self-acknowledged Mormon, but I doubt he shares these beliefs. So for many years, I clung to our spiritual relationship as the be all and end all of relationships in my life. Dedication to principle, regret over having been partly responsible for our splitting up, my eternal love for her, the whole of my being was anchored into this relationship. Those with astrological wisdom might know I am sun Libra with Neptune and mercury also in Libra; and am very developed/aware at Neptunian Soul levels here re: mates. So finally after battering my head and heart against her solid stone Taurus position, I found myself in a perfectly receptive soul state. I asked God to show me a proper new mate for me, if such existed, and I was totally accepting and in the total 'they will be done' mode. Within a month I had experienced an interlocking series of dreams that I clearly understood to be astral or Higher Mind contact with another 'soul mate'. Among other things, this female in one part of a dream sequence told be right to my face, in fact, she insisted on it: Brian, we were married in Heaven before we came to earth. In the dream, I converted her point of view into the celestial marriage paradigm I am used to. I also had the most incredible rise in vibratory rate during a six week period this was happening, as did a good friend of mine, so there were definitely 'things' happening inside and outside of me of a highly spiritual and unusual nature. The experience terminated and slipped into normality when I finally managed to see this female in the flesh, that is, be in her physical presence rather than dream presence, when I attended a performance of hers, as she is a highly public figure. For some time afterward, I wondered and hoped about some possible meeting with her or something. But I also realized I did not really know her in the physical world and common sense kept me from doing anything too much about it. But the main gain for me was the realization or idea that BA was not my only soul mate or such. It was totally new territory for me, as I had thought for so many years, she was my only one. I should also say that, as unreal as it may sound, I still enjoy a wonderful 'relationship' with Elizabeth. I have stared at some photographs of hers at times and via the power of the Holy Ghost have 'seen' right into her soul, and our oneness therein. However, this 1994 new soulmate experience eventually passed into personal history. I am still fond of this woman (still don't know her physical world level) and hope the best for her, but I do not feel particularly bent on a relationship or anything. I am very grateful for what happened, it expanded my spiritual universe and blessed me with some of the most magical wonderful memories of my life. However, a couple months ago, I again experienced a rise in vibratory rate, and entered yet another 'new soulmate' experience. In most ways, this new soulmate experience was not as totally mindblowing and overpowering as the first. And I regard the first one as perhaps a kind of 'transformational' milestone. This new one has been much milder yet no less significant. I have had three separate predictions/prophecies over the last several years of meeting an important soul mate in my future (and the future then is getting to be NOW). One was a gypsy fortune teller (laugh if you will, she knew everything about my painful past and was very convincing) and predicted among other things meeting someone who would make up for all the emotional cruelty from the first. And that we would have a significant relationship. This, BTW, was after the 94 woman experience. The second was a word of guidance directly from the Lord, supposedly, received from a person on the davids outcast list, which I prayed about as intensely as I ever have. My final outcome there was a personal influx of spiritual guidance from the Lord that basically told me that in the pre-existence, other female spirits sought union with me; but that BA held pre-eminence among them. But there were others. I was supposed to inform BA of this message, because it was given to both of us, the Lord still recognizing and dealing with us as an eternal pair, as the holy ghost had called us. BA was to be advised of the 'other interested parties' revelation, and that she was being asked to confirm in this life her desire and choice and respect for that pre-eminence. All I got back was angry emails from her husband, finally ending with threats of police action because I was harassing and stalking her. I obviously terminated contact; not because of fear of police, but total aghast that he/she would run to the police rather than the Lord for authority. Typical I would say. So I had to take that refusal to even take the question seriously as a negative: no, BA no longer cared about maintaining any such pre-eminence. It was important because, as I spiritually intuited , this new soul mate was one of those female spirits from the pre-existence now being introduced into my physical life, and that she wanted that pre-eminence available due to BA's current default. My experience is such that this new soulmate spiritually and magically has the ability to graft right into my root core beliefs and completely overshadow and take over BA's status inside my self. It's kind of like in my own internal soul networks, BA is Windows 95 and this new one overrides her program with Windows 98 upgrade. Kind of. Recently, a fairly reliable card reader read my cards for me ( I find this sort of thing interesting and useful at times; but not as reliable and important as prayer and such) and predicted some very interesting things time will tell, including a meeting and significant relationship with this new soul mate person. So I have been told by 3 sources about some significant new soul mate type relationship, including the Lord saying "I have in store for you a relationship with a special woman" (from the davids outcast person's word of guidance). So to make my own bizarre spiritual mate matters perhaps more universal here, does not the default in some ways of one spiritual mate (BA) not necessitate for justice sake the possibility if not reality of a man having more than one celestial/spiritual mate. My understanding of late is that, I may be dedicated and loyal and such infinitely to BA; but the Lord will himself no longer 'merely tolerate' the schism she has created between us, and is sending me this new one into my life, because that is plain just. Now there is such a gap between me and my life and this new woman and her life, I cannot see anything but a fiat of God could ever get us together. I presently doubt I would ever even meet her. She is also a public figure to some degree, and works in television and movies. The main thrust of my own interest in polygamy or related arrangements has been to try to learn ' the truth about who and what went on for me re: pre-existence male/female relationships. For me, such knowledge is almost a necessity in untangling my life situation. I do not seek any particular responses from anyone on the list other than anything anyone feels compelled to add here. Please don't anyone bother with a questioning of the reality of soul mates or such, as I already have new age friend who always offer this perspective. I know many years ago, when I was trying to deal with my early years of separation from BA, I read a book called: How To Find Your Soul Mate. It was written by a man who broke up with one soul mate; then later had dreams about another woman, who he eventually met and married; after she also came into realization they had been meeting in their dreams. I believe people, especially 'soul mates' , can meet or mingle on a different level than the earthly physical, and that some dreams are just dreams, and others are psychic or spiritual/astral experiences as real as any on earth. Well, that's me and what's most important in my life right now. rwbh/brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10227 From: "susan carter" Subject: OT Welcome to RWBH I sent Brian a personal welcome letter and my TOP TWENTY picks for his perusal and some hints such as OT for off topic. This list is not a discussion list so much as it is a virtual classroom with JJ Dewey as the teacher. Either he picks the subject or we do with our questions to him. Our most current discussions have surrounded the nature of Jesus and Christ, Annalee Skarin, Heirarchy of Gods, and an installment from a book JJ is writing GATHERING OF LIGHTS. All these posts can be found at the archives. Bios and pictures are at http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.html I would suggest we "save" this message for later after Brian understands our purpose a bit more and we don't get too far a field. Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10228 From: RWBH Subject: Re: OT Welcome to RWBH I feel like saying a big OOPS here, and I doubt my recent post is on topic. I am feeling more like this group is dedicated to talking about farming, while I just want to talk about making bread. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10229 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: OT Welcome to RWBH susan with egg on face forgot to mention and DO the following: when replying please delete all unnecessary parts of the replied to message.....sorry folks....Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10230 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: private Re: Both Ways (p.s. Xavier on Jesus) Funny is that it worked with me, I saw the joke, yet I'm french;-) Must be spirit lol. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10231 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Fw: Dogma "Paul Yu" writes: "Information and beliefs and systems thereof are necessary tools provided by the personality so that the soul's work of expressing the divine Idea may become possible. The soul's chief tool of expression however is her own intuitions of realities. Spiritual erudition does not possess what is needed to indicate to the aspirant or disciple what they are to follow in their path. Their only teacher is their soul, the spokesman of their spirit. This is what Jesus was making a general reference to when he refused to be called master. There is only one master or teacher in the real sense and that is the Father, all-wise and all-intelligent." If anyone would like to see an alternative viewpoint on teachers, you can read JJ's first article to the list entitled Teacher - Student, here: http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives/JJ1.html Of course, in a sense, Paul is correct - there is no teacher but God but that knowledge isn't very useful to someone who is seeking to learn in this reality unless one accepts that one of the ways God reveals Himself is through the teachings of others. Where would we be without the teachings of Buddha and Jesus, for example who went before us and mapped out the trail. It seems to me that the biggest leaps in the world's collective consciousness have been because of the appearance of a specific teacher who because of the power of their own vibration and teaching, have been able to increase the vibration and expand the consciousness of those who listened to them and applied the principles that they taught (and please don't tell me those teachings were of the 'personality', Paul). Yes, it was true, Jesus didn't particularly like being called a master. But he was perfectly happy to be called a teacher because it described a large part of his purpose in being here. I am very grateful he didn't say 'God is your teacher' and then retire into oblivion. Of course, we have to run everything past our souls for verification but that is another matter. I suggest that the belief that there are no teachers, that all knowledge comes from the soul or God etc would be one of the views that would make some of the newer members of the list think we're loopy. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=--= The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. - William Arthur Ward Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10232 From: "Judy Reese" Subject Dogma Thanks Paul..for the expanded viewpoint. I did mean verification to be by verifying of soul intuition. And I do understand the process..as 99% of what I have read so far by JJ has been intuited by myself and some through my own writings before I was given "The Immortal" as a "gift from Source" that I am on the right track. But..I do not see[as I need enlightenment on this] how getting verification and possibly from multiple sources would not tend to define those verifications to the individual as Truth. And then if only Truth is true....how does this not approach dogma? Is it because Truth is ever-changing; the Source of All is ever-changing; and consequently we, as individuals, are ever-changing? So, that Truth is really only a "mirror-image" of the highest consciousness of the individual and all creation simultaneously reflected back to us? Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-011-17/10233 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Spiritual/Celestial/Soul Mates Well..I am as new as you can get to this list; as I joined last night after 3 previous nights of reading .."The Immortal" till 3-4:00 a.m. But I would like to respond here..Brian..and I am going to be maybe un-diplomatic, blunt and to the point. What...I feel that you are experiencing in beginning with BA and continuing to your present feelings, beliefs and dreams on this soul-mate scenario is all "maya" to the max. Illusionment of the ego-self to make sense out of a "lost love", hurt pride/ego, and disillusionment based on presuming spiritual concepts applied to the first "great love affair" of your life. There was the first delusion and the rest all just went down-hill from there into a cycle of the ego's attempt to justify the first false premise about you and BA. I had a VERY similar experience that you speak of and am responding; because the similarities are so sparkling. I too..believed that me and my lover were Elizabeth Barrett Browning and Robert Browning and I received confirmation of this from presumed psychics. My "story" was more affected by New-Age concepts instead of Mormonism..but the details and end-result were very similar. You will reach NO satisfaction with this deluded route of thinking; because there is none; because "maya" is an illusion. Have the courage, Brian, to "get real" about this....and realize that "True Love" is in the NOW..focus on aligning with Source...and the "gifts" will come...not foucing on the "gifts" themselves.....because "maya" will be the result of putting the horse before the cart...There could be "a truth" to the original BA relationship; but you will never find what it is..until you let go..of making it too important to the "big picture" of your life and purpose here. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-15/10234 From: "Geoffrey Ellis" Subject: Re: Fw: Truth as Empirical & Gnostic "Of all the spiritual experiences I've ever had, none ever informed me to trust a book, or another man. Intellectualizing the scriptures will kill your spirit. I believe we could learn more/faster if we stopped reading and just began treating one another with more concern, love, respect, and equality. I haven't stopped reading, it's just that the things I know to be true, I have learned from the voice inside. And there aren't a lot of things I can say with confidence, "I know!" Hi Craig "Intellectualizing the scriptures will kill your spirit." God save us from Intellectuals..... as they say. There is nothing worse than reading the debate of two intellectuals who are arguing over the small print when they have not even bought the product. A lovely post Craig Back to active lurking Geoffrey Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10235 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Ancient of Days Rick writes: "http://www.greaterthings.com/parallels/Commentary/2ne- huge2v19b=18v12com.htm" "I checked out the above URL. What was it that that jumble was supposed to make clear?" I suppose only those steeped in LDS background would appreciate what is there. Basically you have two segments of scripture text lined up like recombinant DNA, and in the new match is contained a new manifestation or truth. In this case, it regards the fall of Adam and the plan of God to bring restoration. This particular match-up is of particular interest on several counts. First, it validates from the scriptures the doctrine of Adam-God. Second, it teaches that he is coming back in this day to bring the family of man back into the garden. That is pretty big stuff IMHO. Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10236 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Dogma "Judy Reese" writes: "And then if only Truth is true....how does this not approach dogma? Is it because Truth is ever-changing; the Source of All is ever-changing; and consequently we, as individuals, are ever-changing? So, that Truth is really only a "mirror-image" of the highest consciousness of the individual and all creation simultaneously reflected back to us?" I think the Truth never changes. It is our perception of it that is altered as we grow. As to whether it is dogma, it depends on your definition. If you take dogma to mean a belief, principle or code of beliefs (as in my dictionary), then there's no real problem (although I go back to earlier emails when I've argued, along with others, that belief doesn't necessarily equate to truth). On the other hand, if you take the meaning of dogma as a doctrine imposed on us by others, then even if the teachings contained within that doctrine are correct (true), the method by which it is imparted is wrong, thereby invalidating the entire process. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10237 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Fw: Truth as Empirical & Gnostic Geoffrey Ellis said: "Back to active lurking" it's a shame ! Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10238 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Dogma Glenys: "I think the Truth never changes. It is our perception of it that is Altered as we grow." Judes: "But, Glenys, and Paul jump in too.....if God is "becoming that which that is becoming".. then wouldn't Truth also be a parallel to this concept and be ever-changing also? To me, this a major realization within the first key." Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10239 From: Mark D Williams Subject: Way OT Afterimage Effect A very special friend forwarded me this URL. Thought I would share it with you all. http://trinityumc.net/youth/cool.htm Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10240 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: Glenys... Dogma, Thought, Truth and Teachers Glenys ... I like what you wrote ... and can I expand ... *** From my perspective, .... and this is the paradigm I use with the people in my group *** There is only one Truth which is common to all. *** Each can only 'know' your partial aspect of Truth .. *** From what thought comes the thinker who thinks he 'knows'? *** Truth is fluid, continuous, ever changing ... *** The moment you put words around fluid Truth you impose a boundary, a separation of Truth from itself ... and so you have thought. *** Learning is the acquisition of thought ... Thought is not Truth ... *** for every thought there is opposite thought... for all knowledge there is a lack of knowledge ... *** The thought process is scientifically measurable *** Truth is ... The Truth always is, was, and shall be for ever more ... constant yet changing ... *** Thus , as I "work with people" I allow them the space to voice their own perceptions ... because I have found that this is what a belief is to them .... *** and as each voices their own perception without fear of ridicule, allowing the other the space to explore their own possibilities ... there is a greater expansion in the pool of understanding ... and definition becomes less finite .. and beliefs become less limiting .... *** Within this, I take the role of asking the question "What if...." and allow the discussion to follow the possibilities ... *** rather than stating that "this is an empirical fact" *** From where I come from .. to state that something is empirical fact is dogma ... as is insisting that there is only one way of proceeding in any given situation .... *** and I would honestly say that in my time ... I have learned more from my group that I could possibly have taught if I had held on to what I had been told I should believe ... or what was taught to me as truth ... *** and the group consciousness has expanded far beyond what any of the members had ever individually thought possible ... *** and their consensus belief now .. is their own understanding, their own making real with reference to their own experience ... not what they have been told to believe .... *** and they have found that there is truth in every book that has been written .. as they moved beyond their own reactions to key words .. and were allowed to shift their point of perception without being made wrong. *** IMHO it is dogma that seeks to make the individual point of perception wrong .. and removes the Universal Nature of God and Christ from the individual. *** From this it follows that the only true teacher is one who has made truth real in their physical body ... *** because until that happens, the pseudo teacher has to rely on the words of others to support his or her own position .. rather than speak gentle words that issue from the still point of beingness. *** If you go back in history, this has been the hallmark of all of the previously mentioned great teachers that have had an influence on world consciousness. **8 and so the consciousness of Truth is constant .. yet expanding in terms of human understanding Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10241 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Welcome Brian How lovely to meet you Brian, and thank you for sharing yourself and your feelings with us. My understanding of soul-mates may be a bit different, i always thought our true soul-mates were not here on this plane, and if they were they would drive us nuts if we got together. It was, it seems, important for you & BA to be together for whatever the time span was and you & she must have worked out whatever y'all needed to work out so you could both go on to others this lifetime I wish you joy in finding what and who you are looking for, and am very happy you found our list. We're a pretty interesting group. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10242 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Dogma "But, Glenys, and Paul jump in too.....if God is "becoming that which that is becoming".. then wouldn't Truth also be a parallel to this concept and be ever-changing also? To me, this a major realization within the first key. Judes" Who I am becoming doesn't change the truth of who I was 10 years ago or who I will be in 10 years time. So why should it be any different with God. Truth must be true; it can't contradict itself or else it isn't truth. All we can do is follow the highest truth we know/has been revealed because that is the only thing that will 'set us free'. Once we get pass the dimensions beyond time and space, we're not dealing with truth as we know it anyway (in a sense, it doesn't exist). I remember once when we were asking JJ similar questions, he likened us to slugs trying to understand the theory of relativity :-) A few days ago I posted the links to JJ's writings on truth. Some of your questions may be answered if you have a look at them. Good luck (and welcome to the list, by the way). Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10243 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Welcome Judy Welcome aboard Judy, you are going to be a fresh spring breeze here. So very happy you found us. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10244 From: RWBH Subject: Judy Judy Judy Judy Reese: I appreciate you bothering to offer the best wisdom you could. However, I would be even more appreciative if you would bother to digest my story and the evidence offered at my site: http://www.bais.nu before you try to compare our lives re: EBB & RB. I seem to be operating on a false premise here that people on this list will take the time to become knowledgeable and familiar with someone's full story before they make comparisons or judgments. I can assure you, one and all, that I most definitely WAS Robert Browning in my last life. I usually don't make a big deal out of it, but I refuse to be compared to someone else who cannot possibly offer the same degree and amount of 'evidence' I came to this planet to show/share. RwBh / BRIan / BRI = I,RB Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10245 From: Blayne Subject: Truth I think its both. There are absolute truths and their are truths that change with growth or progression. Such as if I paint my house blue then it's true the house is blue. But in a few years if I change it to yellow then the former truth no longer applies but the absolute truth is, its the same house. Even if I add a room etc. Now this is an elementary example and as we approach higher more sophisticated truth the ability to discern can get harder until we evolve enough to discern it clearly. So the answer is both, depending on what kind of truth were looking at how evolved we are etc. But God remains God or what ever you call him/her and that's absolute. Love Blayne Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10246 From: Susi Subject: Re: Glenys... Dogma, Thought, Truth and Teachers Christopher worte: "and their consensus belief now .. is their own understanding, their own making real with reference to their own experience ...not what they have been told to believe ....and they have found that there is truth in every book that has been written.. as they moved beyond their own reactions to key words ..and were allowed to shift their point of perception without being made wrong." I love the reflection of your words! And Glenys, I'm so disappointed about the mud slinging, I've had such great fun getting into mud fights and football games with much slinging going on.....now to only find out I've lost ground....well I guess I can always pick it out from between my toes.....ouuuu, gross....LOL ;-) Blessings;-) Susi Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10247 From: Mark D Williams Subject: Archives & Links Hi Susan and all, I have posted this before onlist, but maybe it is time again. Sometime ago in a post entitled "Historian," JJ asked if someone would be interested in editing all of the posts at the Spiritweb archives, http://spiritweb.org/Spirit/archive.html?list=keys-l into a more readable form. When I came across that post in Samu's Archives, http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives.html I emailed JJ and asked if anyone had done that. He said no and asked if I wanted to and I said I would. Marylin had also offered to help, so together we began editing all of the posts (not just JJ's) that began in November of 1998. It is easy to see how huge a job removing all the extraneous HTML and duplicated quotes would be from every single post. [That is why you will hear on occasion reminders to only quote what is absolutely necessary in a post. Cut and paste (snip) what you wish to comment on.] These edited posts are located at what I call the xoom archives: http://members.xoom.com/keysarchive/ Recently I got a new full-time job and needed to "resign" from that project. Rick has been helping Marylin continue and I know they are looking for people with time to edit to help them. For now those six weeks or so are all that is done, I believe. There are also some links to keys-related sites at the bottom of that page, such as The New Jerusalem Meditations, multilingual versions of the Song, an index to BOOK 1 of The Immortal (Book 2 index still in progress), a page about DECISION, Keyster photos, Rick's graphics, etc. Hope that clears things up a little for everyone. If you still have any questions about the archives or any translations, please feel free to email me or Rick privately. Thanks. Mark D Williams voxdoc@yahoo.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10248 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Dogma I think most of us myself included are not fully aware of who we are or where were at as signified by this statement: I believe, therefore I am becoming....what I believe... :-) For better or worse, truth or illusion. :-) Love Blayne ******************************** Only dead fish go with the flow! Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10249 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Dogma LOL. Of course, the fact that we aren't fully aware of who we were/are doesn't deny the *truth* of who we were/are :-) Love Glenys PS Sorry about the mud, Susi :-))) And Christopher - thank you for your comments -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- There's no future in time travel. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10250 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Worship Principle & More Greetings of Peace to All, Thank you for answering the questions I put forward JJ. "Zia also asks: Jesus even said point blank that there were "two men" who bore witness of his mission - he and his Father within him. Would this be the spirit being that created Jesus' body through the virgin birth? Thus the Father on a higher level..." JJ "Yes. I wrote some about this previously. This makes Christ literally the Father and the son." So when Jesus said "I am the only begotten son" it is true, for the Christ (father) created the Son (Jesus) and this is true for all of us?! Even the 'daughters'!! There can be only one begotten for that body! correct me if I misunderstand here....... "Zia asks who we pray to when we pray to God?" JJ "We must pray in spirit to the one God of which we are all parts of his body. After your prayer is sent forth in faith it will be picked up by a higher life who realizes his oneness with God and if it looks like an answer to your prayer will indeed be helpful assistance of some kind may be forthcoming." This is where I had difficulty with the Eastern religions, they seemed to become so dependent upon one spirit being... rather than addressing to the highest God of Creation. Even FAther/Mother God, seemed to be a reduction or drop in consciousness level, to the totality of the Highest God... yet I realize it will be a consciousness... since that is what everything is. Yet vast indeed! Thank you for your assistance JJ. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10251 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Dogma Judes wrote: "Thanks Paul.. for the expanded viewpoint. I did mean verification to be by verifying of soul intuition. Hi Judes, Glenys and everyone, The one truth represents the one reality or life. Beyond the one reality there is not but incomprehensibility. The one reality or life is manifested through we don't know how many levels before reaching the dense physical plane. As it goes downward or outward the one life appears smaller and smaller or less and less abstract. The truths representing these different appearances on various levels of the one life are getting smaller and smaller or more and more concrete. All the truths on the different levels are relative, the only absolute truth being that which represents the one life or reality. All relative truths can be classified under one of two categories: total truth and partial truth. Total truths are representations of total realities which make us wise. Partial truths are representations of certain aspects of realities which give us information. Total truths are intuited truths of the soul, spiritual in nature in the sense of leading to spirit. The soul does not verify, she simply knows truths from non-truth. Partial truths are truths of the personality, mundane in nature that personalities need these informative truths to live their physical life. The personality labors to learn any type of information. The word teacher is primarily the one who imparts information to another called student. Teachers who impart information are rightfully called teachers. Derivatively, those who impart spiritual information to others can also be called teachers. But since they are dealing with total truths of the soul they are more appropriately called translators because all they are doing as personalities is to translate intuitions into information. Furthermore, since spiritual information is of such nature that it involves wisdom, love and humility the one who imparts spiritual information has not only to translate and impart the total truths of the soul but more importantly to live a life congruent with wisdom, love and humility. That is why the real gurus in their wise and loving humility don't naturally call themselves gurus. It is naturally and normally however that their followers insist on calling them gurus or teachers. Guru or teacher is therefore a second person or third party reference name rather than a first person self-appellation in soul- dominated spiritual circles. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10252 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH wrote: "I seem to be operating on a false premise here that people on this list will take the time to become knowledgeable and familiar with someone's full story before they make comparisons or judgments." Hi Brian, Listen man. You may not be so far off on your premise, but what you may not know is that we have been taking SO MUCH time, in recent months especially, becoming knowledgeable with so many different people's "full stories", that many here miss the days that they spent their time discussing the teachings of JJ, the author of The Immortal. Please forgive our weariness and also forgive us as we are constantly looking for more effective ways of handling the mailing List. I hope this has given you a better perspective on your treatment so far by this list. We ain't so bad, I promise. :) Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10253 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy I liked what I read of The Immortal. Did you ever hear that song Immortality by Celine Dion. Did you know that song was about ME? Written by the Bee Gees, reincarnations of former EBB Barrett brothers. Isn't that worth something too around here ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? That's who i am...and that's all i know. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10254 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Dogma Judes wrote: "But, Glenys, and Paul jump in too.....if God is "becoming that which that is becoming".. then wouldn't Truth also be a parallel to this concept and be ever-changing also? To me, this a major realization within the first key." Hi Judes and everyone, Change implies lack. The ultimate foundation of beings cannot have anything to do with lack or it would collapse. Change involves two (2) and three (3): Change is motion from one point to another, the two points being 2 and motion from one point to another being 3. One (1) is the ultimate foundation of beings. Change begins with 3 by way of 2. 1 is not lack or lacks nothing, therefore unchangeable. 2 paves a way for 3 for changes. We live in 3 yet we are 1. We change all the time yet we remain the same. So with truth: One holographic truth inherent in all relative truths which change as we change by expanding and deepening our representations of realities when climbing on the spiritual ladder of consciousness toward 1. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10255 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy You rang? Hi..Brian.. I am not de-validating your experience here and you MAY well have been RB. But, do not be mislead by "you know who" down a path of delusionment to the importance of this revelation. Because the path, my dear friend, is insanity at the worst and incapacitation to your true mission at the least. The Adversaries use the ploy of the intensity of the "maya" on who else.. but those closest to the doorway or those who have stepped in. You are a "most-prized" candidate and the misunderstanding of romantic love vs real love[which we are all barely glimmering] is two different things. And WHO, may I ask, epitomizes the ultimate consciousness of romantic love? Could it be RB & EBB? You were at the doorway or you would not have had this experience.. NOW.. just remember how you got there and go back THERE. That is the PRIZE....not the "gifts" if they are over-emphasised for their relevance instead of for verification of how close or far away you are. The road to contrived delusion is not IT.. nor is it the 'bread"; and you will not be able to get to the "meat" or the "feast" that is awaiting you unless you go back to the doorway and knock again. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10256 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH wrote: "Did you ever hear that song Immortality by Celine Dion." I pretty much stay clear of her stuff if I can help it. Oh no! I hear her anorexic warble starting again. Must run and find cover from radio....... ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10257 From RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy WHO epitomizes the ultimate consciousness of romantic love? Lord Sri Krsna and His eternal consort Radharani, of course! You haven't even got to my eternal spiritual identity as Atum the Egytpian deity yet. My true mission is going like gangbusters, not to worry. I don't make a big deal about being RB or Atum. I just don't think anyone anywhere is supposed to be belittled without offering the truth as an alternative. brian Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10258 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Judy, Judy,Judy Mabel I hate joining new lists...you have to sort of put up with people misunderstanding you and your intentions[where you are coming from] until they get to know you. I will tell you all this.. I am "to the point" and "cut to the chase". I hate to explain something I said..because someone seems to have misunderstood me. ..but.I do not believe NOW that I was EBB...I did feel that way while I was deluded by "maya"[I am using this word because JJ used it to explain delusion]. I am trying to HELP ..Brian here. that is all. I am feeling "pressed" by my spirit to do this. And, yes...do not you think that it is a lot synchronistic that we both had this experience and we just joined the list? Do you not realize that my clarity on this could help him? He asked the for help....I have put it all to bed with a STRONG spiritual lesson learned in the process many years ago. I am ONLY mentioning it[which I probably should not have] as a reason why he might stop to listen to me and then "the small voice" within himself that I am trying to get him to remember and listen to. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10259 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Hi Brian, Ahhh. You make me smile man. :) RWBH wrote: "I liked what I read of The Immortal." That's cool. How much did you READ of the Immortal? "Did you ever hear that song Immortality by Celine Dion." Ahhh. Yikes! And I'm supposed to be the "musician" on this list. Sorry man, I guess I'm outta touch. "Did you know that song was about ME?" You mean you, you? Or the other, "unreincarnated you", you? "Written by the Bee Gees, reincarnations of former EBB Barrett brothers." Ahhh. That helps. But, no, I'm still not catching on. "Isn't that worth something too around here ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????" Ok! Finally a question I think I can answer. Unequivocally YES! Everybody's "life" on this list is of great worth! We just don't use the list exclusively to tell our "life" stories. Not that they're not interesting, mind you. But with 200 or so stories being posted, well, you can see the trouble. Of course, if you'd like to join the discussions going on around here, by all means stick around. Introduce yourself and contribute your thoughts. We may be open minded, BUT WE'RE NOT EASY! :))) Once Again, Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10260 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Fwd: 144,000 OT- food for though Greetings of Peace to All, I too have enjoyed the interpretations seeing the Bible as the aspects of our lives... the physical, emotional, mental and finally the spiritual. I too see Revelations as portraying the spiritual body development... including the seals etc as relating to our physical and all other bodies, overcoming through the spiritual inspiration etc. The brain certainly plays a vital role in this, and is hidden within the meanings as well. The glandular systems activated... so many references could be likened to the physical body and the unlocking to become the CHRIST body physical. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10261 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH writes: "WHO epitomizes the ultimate consciousness of romantic love? Lord Sri Krsna and His eternal consort Radharani, of course! You haven't even got to my eternal spiritual identity as Atum the Egytpian deity yet. My true mission is going like gangbusters, not to worry. I don't make a big deal about being RB or Atum. I just don't think anyone anywhere is supposed to be belittled without offering the truth as an alternative." So what's your point, apart from looking insane? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10262 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: (Intro) Judy Judy Judy Hi Judes, Hey! You go girl! (I'm sorry. I - will - never - say - that - again :) Nice to meet ya. You certainly dig in quick. :) Thought I'd add to the welcoming "committee". (pardon the term) You seem to have a good grip on things from The Immortal and beyond, so I look forward to your future input. Ha! Almost as much as I enjoyed your intro. :) Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10263 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: [brian] Re: Judy Judy Judy "WHO epitomizes the ultimate consciousness of romantic love? Lord Sri Krsna and His eternal consort Radharani, of course! You haven't even got to my eternal spiritual identity as Atum the Egytpian deity yet. My true mission is going like gangbusters, not to worry. I dont make a big deal about being RB or Atum. I just dont think anyone anywhere is supposed to be belittled without offering the truth as an alternative. brian" *** Its only the ego ... the personality seeking approval, acceptance and recognition *** that needs a name or needs to be named *** Seeking to emulate the written word embraces the limitation of the word written and is prejudiced by the preconception of the reader *** Why limit epitomy to myth and legend ... *** when it can be made real, here and now .... beyond myth ... beyond legend .... *** If only, instead of learning, we can remember ... Christopher Wynter BTW ... remember = re-member or reconnect the fragments. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10264 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy I made my first post to Keys, quickly realized I was probably off topic, and that was all there was to it. Until Judy decided to confuse her errant past with my own truthful past. I then had to try to fix that problem. I'm my own darn immortal, don't need any other. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10265 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy drop dead Xavier Dolleans wrote: "So what's your point, apart from looking insane?" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10266 From: RWBH Subject: Re: [brian] Re: Judy Judy Judy You seem quite comfortable using the 'name' Christopher Wynter, chum. You know, it's time to say it: Opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one! I need to take part in a list where only one person (JJ) is allowed to speak 'the truth', to quote the most amusing person I 'met' lately, Tony Clifton (Man on the Moon) LIKE A SHOTGUN BLAST TO THE FACE. I came here, opened my heart and soul to you people, told of some wonderful things in my life the Lord has done for me...and all I've been in insulted, called insane, you name it. How many of you would even recognize the truth if it bit yur (bleep)???? Not many. Not in THIS lifetime.... rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10267 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Dogma Glenys writes: "Truth must be true; it can't contradict itself or else it isn't truth. All we can do is follow the highest truth we know/has been revealed because that is the only thing that will 'set us free'. Once we get pass the dimensions beyond time and space, we're not dealing with truth as we know it anyway (in a sense, it doesn't exist). I remember once when we were asking JJ similar questions, he likened us to slugs trying to understand the theory of relativity :-)" Hi all, :) I have always been fascinated by time and space... And how they are attributes of truth in a sense. An existing idea is true, and an existing object is real. What is the truth about these? I think the beauty of time and space is that they unfold the living truth, moment by moment, face by face, from all angles. With this slowed down view of the world of truth, I am able to see rivers, mountains, vast lands and oceans, I can grasp how they are separate yet create something whole together, and how they all spin and revolve around the Light, how there are cycles, dusks and dawns following each other, eternal principles like this always manifesting new realities, every day. If I was shown 10 years in an instant, with my current perception I might not understand the process, the intelligence and purpose behind it, but when I look at it slowed down in time frame by frame I can catch the change and the growth, and reach an understanding of myself as being a part and partaker of this process. If I always stay in the same place, I might be missing something of the whole picture. And as a matter of fact, I can memorize thousands of landscapes and pictures, but unless I can feel the spirit of these places, whether physical or mental, I've yet to see the truth. When seen from enough many perspectives, understanding may take place, and mind and matter meet and melt. When you look at something from the outside you will have a point of view; when you take it inside of you and now look at the world, you will have vision. The presence of God is absolutely spacious and eternally timely :) Just some late night thoughts, Samu :) chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10268 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy This is ridiculous, Brian...You asked for help or advise. I gave you mine. Now, do not start justifying your request and saying that I am judging you. Like I said,...I am to the point. If you wanted a fluffy new-age answer from someone then go to to a fluffy new-age site. I presume.. that this list is full of inspired individuals who speak their truth. If we are going to spend wasteful moments defending what we say or taking sides on who is closer or farthest away from IT...then Jesu, himself, is going to put his energy elsewhere. I guarantee you. There was no way to speak what I felt to say and worry about hurting your ego or whether people on this list would like me. It is only MY opinion based on a very similar experience and take it for that. I got the "press" to speak and the green-light of the synchronicity of it to go forward. So, I myself, have no doubts that my opinion was needed in some way.. even if only for myself to clarify with intuition and then in writing what happened to me. The "press" to push you to go back to the door was ..I admit.. preachy...and bombastic....but the "press" superceded my hesitation. Especially since the new lovers that you spoke of are not being experienced in the NOW and in a physical sense; so that there would be no way for you to get physical verification that they are indeed REAL soulmates. Surely, this is not a satisfying experience and the angst you were feeling was present in your first letter. True "gifts" are VERY satisfying to the soul as well as the physical self. The authoritative tone that I use comes from the process that JJ speaks about of verification through soul intuition...and is not intended to be offensive..Learn to recognize this tone...as opposed to someone who is being judgmental or dogmatic. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10269 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: [brian] Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH writes: "I came here, opened my heart and soul to you people, told of some wonderful things in my life the Lord has done for me...and all I've been in insulted, called insane, you name it. How many of you would even recognize the truth if it bit yur (bleep)???? Not many. Not in THIS lifetime.... " OK people (and I'm only quoting RWBH because his is the latest post I read), back to your corners. Take a few breaths. Now, I don't expect everyone involved to come back out and shake hands (i.e., make up), but do please refrain from swinging. A little conflict is good for shaking things up and wiping cobwebs from dusty thinking faculties, but too much conflict is just plain silly. And I know all about silly, folks. : ) ~B. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10270 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: (Intro) Judy Judy Judy Yes..John..and there is definitely "humour" in my splash here too. I am laughing a lot as I am writing these posts...what a way to make an entrance!!! geeeeeeez! LOL Splash...Splash Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10271 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy I agree. This IS ridiculous. Strong lights cast dark shadows. At least you speak your mind, I admire that. When you try to grab a tiger by the tail, expect a little fur to fly. By the time I'm through, everyone will probably hate my guts, and I'll be forced off the list, and later you'll all realize you haven't had this much fun for some time here. And then JJ will swoop down from above and end it all by simply saying: Hey, folks, lay off, huh. The dude really WAS Robert. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10272 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Dogma Glenys writes: "Truth must be true; it can't contradict itself or else it isn't truth. All we can do is follow the highest truth we know/has been revealed because that is the only thing that will 'set us free'. Once we get pass the dimensions beyond time and space, we're not dealing with truth as we know it anyway (in a sense, it doesn't exist). I remember once when we were asking JJ similar questions, he likened us to slugs trying to understand the theory of relativity :-)" Hi all, :) I have always been fascinated by time and space... And how they are attributes of truth in a sense. An existing idea is true, and an existing object is real. What is the truth about these? I think the beauty of time and space is that they unfold the living truth, moment by moment, face by face, from all angles. With this slowed down view of the world of truth, I am able to see rivers, mountains, vast lands and oceans, I can grasp how they are separate yet create something whole together, and how they all spin and revolve around the Light, how there are cycles, dusks and dawns following each other, eternal principles like this always manifesting new realities, every day. If I was shown 10 years in an instant, with my current perception I might not understand the process, the intelligence and purpose behind it, but when I look at it slowed down in time frame by frame I can catch the change and the growth, and reach an understanding of myself as being a part and partaker of this process. If I always stay in the same place, I might be missing something of the whole picture. And as a matter of fact, I can memorize thousands of landscapes and pictures, but unless I can feel the spirit of these places, whether physical or mental, I've yet to see the truth. When seen from enough many perspectives, understanding may take place, and mind and matter meet and melt. When you look at something from the outside you will have a point of view; when you take it inside of you and now look at the world, you will have vision. The presence of God is absolutely spacious and eternally timely :) Just some late night thoughts, Samu :) chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10273 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Nice, we had never seen this on this list before. Well Judy really tried to help, but i guess that her compassion and desire to serve are kind of immature, you seem to be so closed to any help. BTW I guess we all agree (sorry people) that your story shows big delusion. What I wonder is why you came here, I'm not asking you but I don't believe much in.. how do you cal it in english? you know, randomity or such. Things that happen with no particular reason. Well welcome to the list, strange bird of omen ! And you can take your advice back at you..;-) oops! Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10274 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH wrote: "By the time I'm through, everyone will probably hate my guts, and I'll be forced off the list, and later you'll all realize you haven't had this much fun for some time here." Well, I got an idea. Why don't we agree to skip all the fun and go to hating your guts now? If that's what you want, I mean. But how silly. I'd much rather appreciate you. But I would like to know who you are, before I hear about who you were. It's just a crazy idea of mine. So, Hi Brian. I'm John. You take it from there. Peace, John Post no. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10275 From: RWBH Subject: Re: [brian] Re: Judy Judy Judy This is just zen combat. It doesn't mean anything at all. Post No keys-l: /2000-01-18/10276 From: "susan carter" Subject: OT Molecular Relationship I have been diligently reading more on the archives. Just wondering if anyone out there has tried putting together a molecular relationship and what their experiences have been? Of the 200 + on this list are any of you seriously considering becoming a part of a molecular group of 24? For those newbies I have been reading the online book MOLECULAR RELATIONSHIPS found in the archives Samu does. This stuff is absolutely fascinating to me. Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10277 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: No Brian..Don't leave "Let's just laugh this one off...okay? I mean it is really sort of funny isn't it ? Judes" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10278 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: (Intro) Judy Judy Judy Judy Reese wrote: "Yes..John..and there is definitely "humour" in my splash here too. I am laughing a lot as I am writing these posts...what a way to make an entrance!!! geeeeeeez! LOL Splash...Splash" yes you did make a very valuable entrance. Nice display of qualities. (months ago, I would have labeled these great, but the list is so high that I get used to great people.) Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10279 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Here's my point. YOU HAVE NOT EVEN READ MY STORY. But don't let that stop you from passing judgment on me to the max. I came here via davids outcasts, and still claim the ONLY thing I've done wrong was to post an off topic first post. Its when dogs started nipping at my heels that 'trouble' started. If you or anyone is going to just leap over a mass of evidence and stuff you really gotta think about (ie my site material) and form conclusions and judgments based on ..what...then how can your opinion be worth much? Tell me, what exactly IS 'my story' which is big delusion, as you choose to speak for all, too. I've always taken such ridiculousness too seriously. Something about pearls and swine, I believe. Trample the pearls into the ground. Then come after you. Right again....Lord. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10280 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy And I thought I heard the Lord: Ahhh. C'mon Brian. This holds true if you're casting your pearls. But if you throw them in the pig's eye, what do you expect? :) That's humor. You got that too, no? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10281 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: This "well" I am "getting" that already!!! This "well" is what I thought it would be. Judes Xavier wrote: "(months ago, I would have labeled these great, but the list is so high that I get used to great people.)" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10282 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Hey, I get in a tizzy sometimes, but I'm not feeling any actual hate to anyone here. If you want to know me, and my path, and what I am being knocked about currently over, simply do what the others don't bother to do, READ my story at http://www.bais.nu. You may not agree after you read my story. But you will have to admit, in fairness, I do present a solid body of material and evidence to back up what I say. Why do I feel like a poor fox everyone all the hounds have chased up a tree. Notice here how it's getting to be about 10 'against' l. Don't worry. Whenever lots of my energy gets poured into something, eventually good will come of it. Maybe if you all just stopped hassling me and looked at it from the point of view that I know what I am talking about, and am who and what I have said, you'd understand how unfairly I have been treated. And no one likes that. To make this all somehow relevant to JJ material, I am beginning to see why he wrote The Immortal as fiction. If you come out and speak the truth as it actually happened...well, I think we all know what can happen. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10283 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy I titled my post 'Judy Judy Judy', didn't I????? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10284 From: RWBH Subject: A Little Respect I goofed with an off topic first post and I'm sorry, again. After that things got bazooey. So, out of respect for the tremendously insightful work by JJ Dewey, which is the real business of this list, I'm going to just sit back and shut up. I assure one and all, I never meant to create such a hassle. It's a God given talent. God bless us, each and everyone! rwbh/brian Post no. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10285 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH wrote: "I titled my post 'Judy Judy Judy', didn't I?????" Ok. Good enough for me. You're in. Cuz I'll tell ya that if you ain't got a sense of humor, the "dogs" around here will keep your little fox up that tree for a long long time. Better to join the pack, I think. But you decide. Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10286 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: Re: A Little Respect RWBH wrote: "I goofed with an off topic first post and I'm sorry, again. After that things got bazooey. So, out of respect for the tremendously insightful work by JJ Dewey, which is the real business of this list, I'm going to just sit back and shut up. I assure one and all, I never meant to create such a hassle. It's a God given talent. God bless us, each and everyone!" You did give me fire and humour, so thank you;-) Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10287 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: A pig? So.. I am a pig.. huh? and you guys think that is funny. JJ...do you have any advice about a brother on the path ASKING for help....you give him back your soul's experience and then he gets angry and calls you a pig.. and then others laugh about it. Is not this not a list[the place] for sharing and implementing what you and John[the Apostle] are teaching? I feel that I exemplified your teaching in all sincerity...not that I am right or wrong here...just trying to "be" what you are teaching. Then why would the one place that you have courage to implement it.. would it be ridiculed? And why is Brian so pissed? In other words.. what did I do wrong here? I alienated Brian and half of the list. Your advice would be much appreciated....or anyone else who would like to enlighten me on how this "process" set out in good intentions failed so miserably.. and that includes you too.. Brian.. what did you want or expect back from the list that I did not give you in my heartfelt and sincere response? Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10288 From: Jean Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Don't you all see? Could be the dark brothers at work trying to get everyone off the topic of TRUTH?????? My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10289 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: let's talk privately Brian: I am NOT judging you at all. You asked for assistance in making sense of it. I was giving you strong spiritual truth that I have experimented and then gleaned from having the same experience[somewhat]. I do not have to read your story nor do I want to. Mainly ..because my time is very limited and I have no interest in whether or not you are RB.. and that is not the point that I am trying to get across to you. Please listen, brother of mine, you are being obsessive about it to the degree that the path has turned a little bit to the "maya"[which is exactly that--- getting too caught up in the phenomena and romance of the "gifts"]. Just veer back to the doorway[Source] and you will be rewarded for the path into the "maya" ...because you will then know the difference in what is truly REAL vs illusionary. the path that you are on now will lead to yes...stalking celebrities???? Do you want to become a looney or an inspired teacher of wisdom? The choice is yours. Ask the Source for assistance is this.. surrender it ALL to Source to give you the answers of what to make of it. and then make the surrender the paramount issue and obsession...it will take a while.. like turning a great ship...but you will KNOW the answers and will not have to ask anybody...except only as for verification purposes until you no longer need even that. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10290 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationship Greetings of Peace to All, Well done Susan in reading through the archives, it was a daunting task to me some 8 or more months ago now, so it must be even more so to you now!!! Although I was not fully conscious of the term, molecular relationship, I certainly had a working knowledge of it. While in Maleny, in Australia, I wanted to carry out a dream to create a very alternative school, that would take children and allow for their unfoldment, rather than teach them the way it IS, and expect it back parrot fashion!! By someone's rules and definitions. I understood to create a CORE GROUP of four, that would come from different backgrounds, and that did happen. We created a mission statement, and defined many things in many long hours of discussions etc with an excellent facilitator not of the group. We went into engaging the community, fund raising, and selected a location for the school. I have to say, there was incredible difficulty in getting just four people to agree on the same thing... and these all had soul contact to some degree. It was interesting, a lot of fun, but ultimately I did not feel we would get it off the ground, because there were certain personalities that had their own agendas... and this always created conflict. Then I left to return to America. I kept all of the ideas we had, for I felt they would be useful one day... that this sort of thing, in the right place, with the right team, would happen. When I viewed previous attempts, the truly successful ones, were always with one person in full control. I believe this is based on the past, and that a team effort, Christ consciously driven, will be able to achieve wonderful things, in the not too distant future. I love the expression, 'not moulding children but allowing them to unfold'... or how does it go.. 'we are not here to mould children, but to unfold children' ... and creating an environment conducive of that. To me enough people with like ideas desiring the same outcomes, will ultimately draw together, and this will become a reality, whether to school, businesses, or all the organisations that benefit mankind. The patterns have been created in consciousness, and will themselves unfold into reality at the perfect time. I also know of another organisation near Murwillumbah, that has equal pay for all employees of the organisation, from owner to tea maker!! It was a beautiful, harmonious place to be. And the respect for all individuals because of this on the part of the founder, was supreme. It was called the San Rafael Healing Foundation. The Building Society, the Let's System, and the Co-op Market also worked on these type of systems. In the co-op it was equal pay, and one was paid for 50% of their time, and the other 50% was given for service. These were not part of any religious organization or intent, but rather just a human service endeavor. Trust that is insightful to you Susan, I know it can work, I have certainly witnessed it in many places, usually monastic type organizations, or spiritual growth organizations, yet Maleny was quite different, as well as some other centers in Australia. I too am fascinated to consciously create a molecule, although I feel I have been a part of that type of group in a few instances, and the energy is quite phenominal... able to be seen, photographed etc. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Susan Carter: "I have been diligently reading more on the archives. Just wondering if anyone out there has tried putting together a molecular relationship and what their experiences have been? Of the 200 + on this list are any of you seriously considering becoming a part of a molecular group of 24? For those newbies I have been reading the online book MOLECULAR RELATIONSHIPS found in the archives Samu does. This stuff is absolutely fascinating to me. Susan" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10291 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationship * Zia wrote: "Although I was not fully conscious of the term, molecular relationship, I certainly had a working knowledge of it." So are you consciously looking for a molecular relationship with anyone on this list or expecting one to form at some time in the near future? Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10292 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Dogma Glenys and Paul: Thank you for your responses on truth.helped me a lot. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10293 From: "susan carter" Subject: OT Dark Side I did a fairly unusual thing and went to the LDS church yesterday (I was raised in that faith) and the lesson was on Joseph Smith's vision of God. It is interesting that before he received the two heavenly personages that he was attacked by the dark side until he thought he was going to die. Not until he prayed for help was he released from that power. It seems that the attack from the dark side was equivalent to the light and knowledge he was about to receive. I think we have seen a parallel here today. There must be some good stuff coming for this kind of darkness, totally unintended by any party, to rear so beautifully. I suggest we all say the Song of the 144,000 right now and bring light and truth to this list once again. Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10294 From: Blayne Subject: Re: A pig? Judy, Relax John was joking not calling you a pig, and I alienated 80-90% of the list or more so your doing fine :-) When you get a lot of firecrackers together there's bound to be some fireworks :-) Anyways welcome Judy and Brian and anyone else whose new I'm fairly new too. Love Blayne Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10295 From: Blayne Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationship I like JJ's outline of the Molecular relationship and you can see it all around or at least the drawing to it as a natural thing, even though there has been very few success's, although there have been some. I have envisioned it in a community and desire to implement it but found as Zia its difficult to get anyone to give up enough of their traditions or agenda for the benefit of the whole. I think Joseph Smith was on to something in his structure of stewardships in the law of consecration. Its sort of a combination of the best of individuality and cooperative. By basing it on free agency is the only way it can work IMHO. JJ mentioned that the past model has been largely authoritarian with few exceptions. JJ I am wondering why it has been so difficult for this to catch on? Is it because of our current evolvement? And from what I gather from what you have said this is changing or about to change drastically is that true in your opinion? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10296 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationship Greetings of Peace to All, Thank you for your response Susan. Yes most of us, at least those that are consistently posting seem to be very interested in forming a molecular relationship, with the goal of it being CHRIST 'lead' for want of a better term. Since I am married, and have done some years of spiritual work with my husband, it is my hope that we will join together in whatever endeavor that molecular relationship provides. We certainly have practised enough focus and mental abilities, and set the goal of oneness, union, and highest spiritual attainment possible in this lifetime. We even try to stand in the same spot at the same time, and usually it is my foot underneath!!! If two bodies could get into one, we'd certainly have a go at it! Having the same thoughts, one thinking it, the other doing it, and such a willingness to love within a 'holy relationship' to use the Course in Miracles term... well gift that does always lead to peace, understanding and support of one another, profoundly. JJ has indicated that there will be the forming of a molecule of 12 (24 with the 12 hidden females!!!) plus the CHRIST. By watching this list, it could be quite some time before we are ready for that!! LOL yet I trust we will become motivated as one to do a greater work sooner rather than later!! So if you're interested stick around, and if single, well there are also single males on the list, and partnerships are developing with a few to being a working couple. This does not have to be a 'romantic' relationship either, by the way. If just reading JJ's posts, you will have missed out on the many sharings on this topic, and might find it of value to check out the relevant timeframe in the archives. Celebrating the Joy of Life, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10297 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy RWBH wrote: "Judy Reese: "I appreciate you bothering to offer the best wisdom you could. However, I would be even more appreciative if you would bother to digest my story and the evidence offered at my site: http://www.bais.nu before you try to compare our lives re: EBB & RB." "I seem to be operating on a false premise here that people on this list will take the time to become knowledgable and familiar with someone's full story before they make comparisons or judgments." "I can assure you, one and all, that I most definitely WAS Robert Browning in my last life. I usually don't make a big deal out of it, but I refuse to be compared to someone else who cannot possibly offer the same degree and amount of 'evidence' I came to this planet to show/share. RwBh / BRIan / BRI = I,RB" Brian, I haven't had the opportunity to read your book of Ba yet. But, I have visited your website. It's very impressive. You've put a lot of work into it. I don't have enough room on my hard drive to download your book yet. Weekly I have to try to free up enough room just to download my email. Do you have memories of your life as Robert Browning? I was very impressed with your introductory email to the list. Welcome to the Keysters. Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10298 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Fw: let's talk privately Hi there Judy, Nice of you to make this a personal call. We'll both get in hot water if we don't cool it. just re-read my original OT post, and darn it, I just couldn't find anywhere in it I ASKED FOR HELP. In fact, I first said I wasn't seeking any replies other than something someone might feel compelled to say/add. You took me up on that offer. Fair enough. But to begin with the idea that I was crying out for help puts your efforts into the total wrong slant. I asked for opinions about the importance of celestial relationships vs earthly ones. I only asked for input, i already know what I think. See if you can understand what annoyed me so much. You come on to me with this attitude: hey, guy, RB and EBB, been there, did that delusion myself, you gotta get over it and back to the door of reality etc etc. Uh, wait a minute here, girl. You were into this "i was EBB" thing, and later you learned it was your own delusion. That's a good girl, because it had to have been in a delusion in your (or anyone but BA's case). But what on earth would you expect me to feel, think, respond when I know full well that I am not deluded, bulls----g, and have a great deal of experiences and evidence you could check out. You are wiping out my entire life's spiritual work, and it was very hard won, with the wave of a hand that is glued onto the arm of a self-admitted delusional person. As for your lessons on romantic love etc. Well, I guess so, but at that point it all sounds like blah blah blah to me. By then, I'm convinced you are no longer talking about me at all, since you got so far off course on the truth of my post. The only support you had for your position was that because YOU were delusional once, therefore I must be delusional also. And I'm supposed to 1) accept the insult and 2) put up with such weak reasoning. Okay. You don't have time to read my material. Fair enough. But you shouldn't have time to make sweeping soul denying judgments based on that lack of information either. Its just not fair. As for me calling YOU a pig. I was talking about the general situation. It was the gospel that uses the word swine in setting this example. People who attack priceless valuable things not seeing their true beauty and worth are acting like swine. I wasn't happy with what you were doing, but your face wasn't the first one to appear in my mind when I mentioned swine. A decent, wonderful, sincere, honest, humble soul came to the Keys list today, me; and was treated rather badly, I thought. Re read my first post. I sought no applause or special treatment or acknowledgement of any particular importance. I only mentioned RB etc because it IS part of my spiritual path. It said my site might be of interest to people beyond my own personal story in the post. I think if you reread my post, you'd not see some poor struggling person seeking your help. You should see a fairly together person who has learned to deal with a very demanding situation, who has looked to the Lord WHEN he needed help, and someone who has faithfully honored the help the Lord gave him. I'm not going to apologize for the fact a soul mate of mine is a celebrity. A lot of good it's doing one of them, let me tell you that. Hey, I'm a celebrity too. Just no one knows it. I would hate to be a celebrity. Robert Browning was/is a somewhat famous person; a celebrity of sorts in the literary world in general. Back then, my wife and I took part in the world at a celebrity or famous level. I still operate on that level, but it is in more of an indirect and secret way. Actually, I don't operate at all. The Lord operates for me. I don't know why people who claim to have such love and interest in the Lord would not be interested in a person for whom the Lord has done miraculous wonderful things. I take delight in my life and my work because you can see the marvels of the Lord in them. I think He likes it when people enjoy and value his miraculous endtime workings. Don't you? Judy Judy Judy. We can be friends, because I am a very good friend. Most of my friends value me highly as a very good friend. All you have to do is realize it might be bothersome for you to call someone deluded when they know they are not. Based on NO information, too. If you can admit that might rightfully annoy and hurt someone, then you can understand my reactions, and all can be well. Helping others. You know, some old men, you can help them across the street, and you are doing a fine deed. Others, they push you away with contempt. And they are right, too. Because you are denying them the ability to carry on being themselves, in spite of their old age. Maybe it means a lot to them to struggle and make it across the street. So one is a help. The other an insult. Same situation. Same response. You mean well, so there's no need for guilt on your part. But understanding is important. I was hoping someone has had similar dream soulmate experiences, or knows of a good site or book about such things. A positive enhancement of a reality I already know, live, and enjoy. But telling me I'm delusional, BECAUSE you were delusional...it isnt right. Yap yap yap. I love to yap. Your turn, if there is anything you feel like saying. So, when's your birthday. Know your astrological chart. If I look it up, it would allow me to understand you probably better. If I wanted to bother with it now. So how old are you. What's your life all about? Do you like Oksana's skating? Leelee's Joan of Arc? As for stalking celebs, I've already proven with OB I know better than that. See how easily you toss me into the common herd of crazies? When in fact I have proven my sanity and good behavior in the past beyond doubt. Being misjudged, i'm libra, drives me nuts. I'm a terribly honest straight shooter with some incredible experiences in and out of my body and I dared to speak up a little on the new list. And that's it. And you? rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10299 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: A pig? Judy Reese wrote: "Your advice would be much appreciated....or anyone else who would like to enlighten me on how this "process" set out in good intentions failed so miserably.." Maybe because it was happening between two folks (you and Brian), neither of whom have logged one full day on the list? As for the rest of us, most of us know each other fairly well by now, so it shouldn't surprise you that a "strangled communication" between two of the newest members would seem a little "out of place" to us. And yes, we will in fact use HUMOR to help maintain peace. How that humor is received is a matter for the receiver to decide. I can assure you though, no offense was directed at you. And besides. I referred to some of us on list as "dogs" tonight too. I didn't hear you argue with THAT assertion. Hmmm. Then again, maybe you agree? :) Ahhh. Never mind. Welcome to the List! :) Peace, John Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10301 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: OT Molecular Relationship Thank you Zia for the further insight and Blayne, I knew this was something you would resonate very positively with. I am married and working towards oneness. It was of interest to me what the ultimate goal of this list was after reading this: ie is it just a bunch of talk or are people getting serious about this? I can see some of both I think :) But never fear I will not divulge the talkers vs the doers :) This pull towards oneness has been a big one. My grandfather was the youngest of 35 children and his mother shared her husband with two other women. I don't have many positive things to say about those types of relationships but JJ has opened my mind up to some other possibilities and reasons for people feeling the need to combine forces so to speak. Susan * Zia wrote: "Thank you for your response Susan. Yes most of us, at least those that are consistently posting seem to be very interested in forming a molecular relationship, with the goal of it being CHRIST 'lead' for want of a better term." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10301 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy "RWBH" writes: "I came here via davids outcasts" Yes, and he remains the only person to ever get kicked off of that list for his unruly behavior (rejoined there recently with a promise to behave himself). Now he's doing it here. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10302 From: "susan carter" Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Because someone who should have known better provoked him knowing what the result would be. Susan Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-16/10303 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Links for newbees "I must be overlooking something because I can only get to a few archived messages from 1998? What am I missing there to get the other weeks? If it is confusing to me perhaps it is to others? I gave up and stick to Samu's archives. Susan" Susan and All, When I took over Mark's project to edit the list's archives and house them on a new, public web page, I quickly discovered allot of problems that were being experienced. First of all, several different software programs had been employed, causing extra html codes, which when added to the already large file size made them very hard to make changes to. There were also many missing posts. After struggling for weeks with the existing set up, I decided to revamp the whole thing and am now almost to the point of being ready to make all the fixes to the web site. When the changes are made, the xoom site will have all the posts, in the order that they were originally sent. We will keep the numbering system, used by Spiritweb, but instead of grouping them by weeks each page will contain 100 posts, making it easier to read, reference, copy and print out. To compact them, I have removed line spacing between paragraphs and the other editors have removed, unreadable codes, extraneous quotes from other posts, spelling errors, etc. Each post has a 3 line bold header, giving date, post , sender and subject. Posts from JJ will have the header in blue, to make them easier to spot. Biblical quotes are in italics and are colored brown. Any URL's that are still known to be active will be directly linked to the site mentioned and comments inserted by the editors will be highlighted in red. Hopefully our ne archives, located at the xoom site, will be much easier to use than the ones now found at Spiritweb. Hopefully, everything we have edited so far will be up and working soon. We are about 1/5th done with editing and could still use more volunteers for that part of the project. If anyone would like to help us, report to our head editor, Marylin mailto:BambieA@aol.com Meanwhile, the links at the bottom of our main page are all very helpful and readers can access the complete archives at Spiritweb at http://spiritweb.org/Spirit/keys-l.html or the archives of JJ's posts which Samu has collected at http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives.html If you think it takes time to read all the posts on this list, you should see how much work it takes to make an archive. Please keep your brothers and sisters that are working on this in mind, when you send posts to the list. Quote only parts of posts that are relevant to your reply and use plain text only (no mime or html please). Always at your service, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-16/10304 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Ancient of Days "Second, it teaches that he is coming back in this day to bring the family of man back into the garden. That is pretty big stuff IMHO." Well, actually my biggest problem with the page came from it's graphic layout (schooled in Graphic Arts, work as Designer), but what material did sift through caused it's own share of problems. I remember reading the verse in the Book of Mormon, about why it was a GOOD thing that Adam was kicked out of the Garden. It resonated with my soul, because I feel that leaving the Garden was one of the best moves mankind ever made. And I hope we never, ever go back there again, because it was an experiment that failed. Guess that just goes to show how two people can read the same words and get a completely different message. Love, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10305 From: RWBH Subject: I Love This Girl! Diane: I am so thankful for your blessed email, I'm crying. Yes, tears in eyes. It's so great to find a bit of faith or open mindedness on a list I expected to be crawling with it. You can read the entire Book of Ba right off the html pages. Or download the pdf.files, which is not an option for you. If you want, private email me an address and I'll send you a hardcopy version signed sealed and delivered as my thanks for being a friend offering. Memories of being Robert. Not really. Except one very significant dream. I was standing on the edge of North American around NYC, and I was like a big being, a titan type. And I waded across the deep Atlantic over to England. Once there, I was normal again. I was hunting for someone, something. I ended up in a large house where I had to go up a flight of stairs to see about revitalizing Beverly Anne. She was weak and sickly and I had to make her better in her room at the top of the stairs. This was many years before I read biographies, and learned that EBB was an invalid all her life, and RB went up stairs to her room at 50 Wimpole Street to meet, love, marry, and revitalize EBB. There's a lot of magic in both our names, for one thing. The egyptians called the name the Ren, and it was about the most important magical part of a person. It had to be preserved for immortality. So I kept RB in RwBh, my initials. Also my name I go by is Brian and BRI = I, RB. Beverly Anne is of course BA and EBB's pet name in those days was Ba. Thus, the Book of Ba. There's way too much more to do with that to mention here. It's not just me who has magic in their names. I love this one. God = I AM. In French, it's JE SUIS. or I, JESUS. Go figure. Howd they do that??? Something for Xavier, peut etre. Mais non, c'est pour Leelee. I guess we're heavily OT here. Maybe you should contact me personally email. If you wish to, that is. I'm actually very friendly and approachable. I have Mars in Leo so will fight. But I have Moon in Virgo, too, so love to serve. Except in tennis. No, I don't remember being Robert. But I remember EBB. Oh yes. In my soul, I just have to look at her picture. I remember. I even remember 'seeing' her in Beverly Anne. I just didn't know who it was. Your gracious interest in what is so dear to me moves me more than you know. And I know the Lord God will bless you for it. At your service, rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10306 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Fw: let's talk privately Oh no...Brian...this is SUCH misunderstanding!!! I do not think you are deluded...but the importance of the connection or past life to RB is making you delusional of its importance. Does that make sense.? Oh no...I am totally seeing now how I offended you. I am really getting right now as we speak. Yes, it is the word, "delusional" that is sooooo offensive. How can I explain what I meant by delusional without it seeming offensive in intention? hmmmmmmm.. okay forget delusional ...lets subsitute "maya".. which can be discussed without being offensive to anyone. There is a difference in REALITY and ILLUSION...and "maya" is the satiation of "maya". "maya" is the phenomena associated with the awakening process....and can be intuition, memory of past lives, lucid dreams, astral projection, telepathy.. etc. These phenomenon become "maya" when they are OVER-emphasised in importance to the awakening process and many the initiate is caught up in the "maya" instead of the REAL parts to awakening.. which are likened to Truth, Unconditional Love...etc. If one gets entrapped by the "maya" they will lose the way. .and become stuck in the "maya"; which a tactic used by the Adversaries to keep those on the straight and narrow path from reaching their destination. In a way this is a COMPLIMENT to you...because you must be pretty advanced on the path to get stuck in "maya". This is the root word for "magic". As a brother and one who has been "stuck" in the "maya"; which is why I know the diff; I feel it my place to warn you about this.. not from a place of ridicule or derision or even judgment [like I am better]..just that I know the dangers and pitfalls of approaching the Light from this unsafe vantage point. And are you aware[I just went to your site earlier] that A, Crowley was a satanist I have information on this if you would like it? The fact that I was involved in this for me, delusion, should be a red-flag to you that it is not unique. Because if you and I both had it...how many others feel the same way? Bet ya lots of other deluded individuals. Now, you are going to tell me that YOU are the only real and true RB?? Come on, Brian,...at least think about what I am saying. I could have proved that I was EBB too.. with all of the physical facts I had to back it up. Nope, it is my place to speak to you about this.. even if you do not hear me. And we never have to talk about it again....but we are definitely FRIENDS....This all did not happen by accident.. I guarantee you that. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10307 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Re: Toodles!!! Unfair comment Susan....VERY unfair.. Well..I am leaving the list over that one. This is not for me. Toodles Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10308 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy What am I doing again, Sterling. Sticking up for myself. Good for me. Get off my back. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10309 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Whatever provoked you Susan into having such a whelp as SDA?? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10310 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Sterling, I think your being a bit over zealous here and jumping the gun. Take your advice you gave me when you thought I was to harsh here :-) Love Blayne Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10311 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Re: Ancient of Days "Rick Audette" writes: [quoting me here] " Second, it teaches that he is coming back in this day to bring the family of man back into the garden. That is pretty big stuff IMHO." "I remember reading the verse in the Book of Mormon, about why it was a GOOD thing that Adam was kicked out of the Garden. It resonated with my soul, because I feel that leaving the Garden was one of the best moves mankind ever made. And I hope we never, ever go back there again, because it was an experiment that failed. Guess that just goes to show how two people can read the same words and get a completely different message." Actually the problem is in the semantics. When I spoke of coming "back into the garden" in this context, I did not mean that we return to the state the Adam and Eve were in in the garden, but like a chiasm there are similarities but with differences. A person who climbs a mountain might end up back where he started, but he is not the same person he was when he began the climb. In saying "garden" I am speaking of the millennial reign of Christ on the earth, the reign of peace, where there are no wars, where there are no poor, where great learning takes place and all things are revealed -- the kingdom of heaven on earth. I could clarify more, but for brevity's sake let this suffice to say that there is a lot more to "return to the garden" than what you read into it, so thanks for letting me clarify. Sterling Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10312 From: RWBH Subject: Re: Fw: let's talk privately Crowley was a Satanist. Well, that puts him into some pretty good company. So was Jesus. Just ask the Pharisees. So was Joe Smith. Just ask Christendom. So is God. He talks to him all the time,as witnessed in the Job affair. You people don't know Jack about Aleister Crowley. Not that it's my calling to defend him. But perhaps one ought to do the honorable thing and stick up for one your employees. Because AC worked for me. And I am not the Devil. rwbh Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10313 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Toodles!!! Judy, Susan was talking to Sterling not you. Sterling and Brian and Susan and I have some history on another list. Don't be so quick to take everything personally. If we can't weather a few email storms theres not much chance of oneness etc. now is there? So take a deep breath take it easy and pedal to the medal LOL!!! Love Blayne Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10314 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Truth Blayne wrote: "I think its both. There are absolute truths and their are truths that change with growth or progression. Such as if I paint my house blue then it's true the house is blue. But in a few years if I change it to yellow then the former truth no longer applies but the absolute truth is, its the same house. Even if I add a room etc. Now this is an elementary example and as we approach higher more sophisticated truth the ability to discern can get harder until we evolve enough to discern it clearly. So the answer is both, depending on what kind of truth were looking at how evolved we are etc. But God remains God or what ever you call him/her and that's absolute." I can't agree, Blayne (how come you're not surprised :-) It is absolutely true that your house used to be blue. Nothing can change that. The truth didn't change; just the colour of your house. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10315 From: DEB Subject: something worth reading thanks samu WOW, what an unproductive day this list has had. Thank you samu for writing something worth reading Blessings , Deb Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10316 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Dogma "Paul Yu" wrote: "All relative truths can be classified under one of two categories: total truth and partial truth. Total truths are representations of total realities which make us wise. Partial truths are representations of certain aspects of realities which give us information. Total truths are intuited truths of the soul, spiritual in nature in the sense of leading to spirit. The soul does not verify, she simply knows truths from non-truth. Partial truths are truths of the personality, mundane in nature that personalities need these informative truths to live their physical life. The personality labors to learn any type of information." So, are you saying that any truth you receive from the soul is 'total' ie complete, Paul? How can that be? Show me someone who has total truth. "The word teacher is primarily the one who imparts information to another called student. Teachers who impart information are rightfully called teachers." "Derivatively, those who impart spiritual information to others can also be called teachers. But since they are dealing with total truths of the soul they are more appropriately called translators because all they are doing as personalities is to translate intuitions into information." No teacher has the total truth, IMHO And only you would coin a new term for teachers -) A teacher is a teacher is a teacher. "Furthermore, since spiritual information is of such nature that it involves wisdom, love and humility the one who imparts spiritual information has not only to translate and impart the total truths of the soul but more importantly to live a life congruent with wisdom, love and humility. That is why the real gurus in their wise and loving humility don't naturally call themselves gurus." I agree. So therefore Sai Baba, who is famous for giving himself titles, isn't a teacher or even an imparter of truth to use your definition. Good for you, Paul; I've been waiting for someone to debunk Sly Baba. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10317 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: hello Again! Thanks you guys.. My ego-self is pretty ruffled...but I guess I can....put my pride behind me. Just my way of saying that I let my ego get too involved here. Like I told Susan. I am going to read thru the archives for a while and then jump in.. after I get my feet wetter. I really apologize for making too much a presence today ..it was not intentional.. just sort of happened. Hope you all enjoyed the show.. it was not fun being one of the muses. LOL I think part of the problem was that my server and maybe others were hanging up.. so messages were coming in later after responses were already made, etc.: Brian and I both got confused about whether we were replying to personal messages or key-list messages. Judes Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10318 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Truth No :-) the truth changed because isn't it true the house WAS blue? But its not blue now? So its no longer true the house is blue now. Truth has actually multiplied and the 2 new truths are "the house WAS blue" and "the house IS yellow" those are both true but it's no longer true "the house IS blue". This is progress. :-) Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10319 From: "Judy Reese" Subject: Fw: hello Again! Editor's Note: Repeat post of No. 10317 Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10320 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Judy Judy Judy Hi Brian, The past few days have been amazing to me. Rapid-fire back and forth posts and misunderstandings all around. I am very guilty of doing the same thing; misunderstanding. You seem like a very sensitive person who bared his soul, so-to-speak, in your first post to the list and didn't get the response you had hoped for. I think it's a learning experience for all of us on all sides of issues that have been brought up. I don't think you made a mistake in posting what you now call an off-topic subject. I think that everything happens for a reason, whether or not we know that reason immediately. Sometimes the answers unfold in the future. Patience and overcoming selfishness are two of the major issues I need to learn in this life. I've been put into situations where patience in the past few years was shoved into my face and I *would* learn it or else. It would keep occurring until I *did* learn it. Keep hanging in there Brian. We are a loving community really; you just haven't seen it as much today as you will. There's been a lot of conflict the past few weeks and perhaps some of us still have our "feathers ruffled" but we can settle down and get on with the tasks at hand. Love, Diane RWBH wrote: "Here's my point. YOU HAVE NOT EVEN READ MY STORY. But don't let that stop you from passing judgment on me to the max. I came here via davids outcasts, and still claim the ONLY thing I've done wrong was to post an off topic first post." Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10321 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Truth As I was writing my response, I saw that I had misread your earlier email. I thought you were saying that because your house was now yellow, then it wasn't true that it used to be blue. Of course, you didn't say that. Sorry, Blayne, It's not like me not to hang on to your every word :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10322 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Fw: hello Again! A belated welcome Judes, Not to worry about your day today. You and Xavier have the ability of getting straight to the point. Sharon has a wonderful way with words. Samu puts his beautiful heart and soul into his well thought out posts. John K. has great humor. I seem to be unable to say precisely what I mean and then sometimes I fail to recognize the humor someone puts forth. Glenys is very insightful and gently points out things with her lovely sense of humor. We are a diverse group and hopefully, as Rick says, we will become One. Peace and love to all, Diane Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10323 From: "Glenys Lowery" Subject: Re: Fw: hello Again! Diane Linen writes: "Glenys is very inciteful and gently points out things with her lovely sense of humor. ................" Thank you, Diane, although I should point out that I only incite riots when I deem them necessary for teaching...opps.....I mean, IMPARTING. LOL Diane also failed to mention that she is famous for being gentle and fair and supportive and, and, and............ (there's not enough room on the page to complete her qualities and anyway, I have a Synthesis Group meeting right now). No fighting while I'm away, guys. You know I don't like to miss out on anything. Bye..... Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- He who throws mud loses ground. Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10324 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Ancient of Days "I could clarify more, but for brevity's sake let this suffice to say that there is a lot more to "return to the garden" than what you read into it, so thanks for letting me clarify. Sterling" Oh, okay then. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I confess, I have difficulties with long wordy explanations. You've put a whole lot into your research. Good man. I tend to distill things down. I like Alice Bailey, but her encyclopedic work is hard to carry in your hip pocket. Thaddeus Golas wrote, "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment", with fewer words than some of the posts on this list and I keep a copy of that on my desk at all times. I've written 30 songs. Each one an attempt to get a whole story, that everyone can understand and relate t expressed in under three minutes (and have a good beat that you can dance to). Then too, I live in Texas and we like our short and sweet colloquialisms. If I want to say volumes about how attractive a woman is, I can just say, "She's cuter than dimples on a bunny rabbit", and the point gets across :) One, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-17/10325 From: Blayne Subject: Re: Truth What? You don't hang on my every word?????....... You burst my bubble!!!!! .... LOL!!! Glenys Lowery wrote: "Sorry, Blayne, It's not like me not to hang on to your every word :-)" Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10326 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: OT - Bright red moon expected during Thursday eclipse Read the full story at: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/01/17/space.eclipse.reut/ _______________ Samu Karlsson eMail: samu3@dlc.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine... but you already know this, don?t you? Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10327 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Dogma "Paul Yu" writes: "All relative truths can be classified under one of two categories: total truth and partial truth. Total truths are representations of total realities which make us wise. Partial truths are representations of certain aspects of realities which give us information. Total truths are intuited truths of the soul, spiritual in nature in the sense of leading to spirit. The soul does not verify, she simply knows truths from non-truth. Partial truths are truths of the personality, mundane in nature that personalities need these informative truths to live their physical life. The personality labors to learn any type of information." "So, are you saying that any truth you receive from the soul is 'total' ie complete, Paul? How can that be? Show me someone who has total truth." Hi Glenys, A total truth is not absolute truth. There is only one absolute truth whereas there are many total truths and on different levels. The soul intuits the whole and not just aspects of an object whereas the personality merely perceives one or more aspects of an object. That is why wisdom is made of total truths and not of partial truths. "The word teacher is primarily the one who imparts information to another called student. Teachers who impart information are rightfully called teachers." "Derivatively, those who impart spiritual information to others can also be called teachers. But since they are dealing with total truths of the soul they are more appropriately called translators because all they are doing as personalities is to translate intuitions into information." "No teacher has the total truth, IMHO." Those who have soul contact have glimpses of reality which are in fact total truths. "And only you would coin a new term for teachers -) A teacher is a teacher is a teacher." Information on mundane matters is different from information on spiritual matters. The latter has to do with the soul and wisdom. Who is able teach wisdom? Nobody. Who is doing the sharing of wisdom, the personality or the soul? The soul of course and not the personality. "Furthermore, since spiritual information is of such nature that it involves wisdom, love and humility the one who imparts spiritual information has not only to translate and impart the total truths of the soul but more importantly to live a life congruent with wisdom, love and humility. That is why the real gurus in their wise and loving humility don't naturally call themselves gurus." "I agree. So therefore Sai Baba, who is famous for giving himself titles, isn't a teacher or even an imparter of truth to use your definition." Our discussion is confined to those teachers who are at best disciples. I was not talking about initiates much less masters of wisdom or avatars. I don't know anything about Sai Baba. So I am unable to make any comment on what he says about himself. "Good for you, Paul; I've been waiting for someone to debunk Sly Baba." Any statement that smelled pride or self-aggrandizement is suspect, not edifying at least. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /2000-01-18/10328 From: Diane Linen Subject: Black or White... Who Is Right? (OT) Another Point of View I once saw a demonstration where two people were seated directly across from each other and the host placed a ball in front of them. One side of the ball was black and the other was white, so that one person saw only the black side and the other person saw only the white side. When asked what color the ball was, one person said black and the other said white. Who was right? We are constantly faced with this same situation in life when we interact with others. One person comes from their frame-of-reference and you come from your frame-of-reference