1999 - WEEK 52 Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9366 From: Rick Audette Subject: Archives Hi All, I've been helping to copy all the archives to another site, while compiling and editing to make them read easier. It's allot of work, but it does have it's perks. You pick up things you missed the first time and a deeper understanding of the words AND speakers. It's the best place for the newbees to get a feel for what we're about, but it's also an excellent resource for those that have been here a long time. If you have the time, it's a great place to visit and there are quite a few books worth of teaching available. Your servant, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9367 From: Rick Audette Subject: [OT] Flowchart Being a clever artificer, I am often looking at how all the pieces fit together. I study my cosmology in much the same light. While, on the one hand, I could choose to disregard all the who begat who's and just do my best to live in the now, on the other hand, he who forgets his history is doomed to repeat it and seeing how the hologram has unfolded itself thus far might give one a better pattern to align oneself with. To that end, I am hoping that, in time, we can get, from these teachings, a flowchart showing the paths and connections of all the principle players involved in the evolution of mankind, on this planet. There are several different kinds of Angels talked of and a host of entities called God. He that we call Father, is not as I was taught as a child to be, the Ultimate God, nor is Jehovah, but they are each members of a Hierarchy. Who's who, who's in charge. Are there names for successive ranks, like they have in Christianity. What part does each play with us? How did we start on earth? How did we migrate and how did all the Gods coordinate our schooling. When did the 12 tribes thing start and where are they now. Etc. I know this is not the current topic and wouldn't want to slow things down with a side road, but I do hope to be able to get a clearer picture of it someday. call me curious, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9368 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Fw: Council of Nine - co-conscience 14 "Do I sense a post about to be used as an example for applying what we've learned for discovering truth? Hmmm . . . Rob" It should have at least had [OT] in the subject. Perhaps the sender is still new to the list and is not yet familiar with how we greet chanelings from "Zor". Hopefully, the rest of us will keep in mind it's [OT] nature and not allow it to sidetrack the current topic, too much. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9369 From: J J Dewey Subject: Radiation The Gathering of Lights Chapter Four Radiation Seven other planets in our system have taken part in a great interplay. These are called the "seven sacred planets" in esoteric literature. At present, they do not have physical life on the surface as we know it, though some may have had in the past, but spiritual life forms inhabit their higher spheres. For the present, our solar system can only have seven radioactive planets and remain stable, and our earth is next in line for such transfiguration. When this transition occurs a highly evolved radioactive planet will be drawn out of its orbit and join (most probably) with Jupiter as one of its moons. Then a new planet on the arc of descent will cloth itself in matter and come into physical being to take the place of the one which has departed. This new planet is already created and exists in a higher grade of matter that is not yet seen by our physical eyes. These seven radioactive planets are a correspondence to the "seven Spirits which are before his throne." Rev 1:4 The Sun is the correspondence to the throne. Then on the microcosmic level we have the "even Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." Rev 5:6 These are seven Avatars who personify the energies emitted by the seven great planets. On the macrocosmic side we have the seven Rishis of the great bear, commonly known as the seven stars of the Big Dipper as the positive representatives of these energies and the seven stars of the Pleiades as the negative correspondence. The seven sacred planets are as representatives of the Great Bear and the seven corresponding energies within the Sun interplay with the Pleiades. The interplay of forces must always be between positive and negative polarities. There is also an interplay between the seven stars of the Great Bear and the Pleiades. Astrologers have intuitively called the seven "sisters of the Pleiades" the "wives of the Great Bear. Indeed they represent female energies relating to the male energies of the Big Dipper. The throne of God in this case is represented by one of the stars of the Big Dipper. Remember that one of the pointers on the big Dipper is a double star so there is one extra star for the throne. On a larger scale we have the galaxy of the Milky Way itself. There are seven divisions among all these stars which represent these seven energies on the positive side and seven others which interplay on the negative side with a great governing star representing the throne. This star is called Kolob in the Mormon scriptures. There are other clusters of stars till which correspond to the twelve signs of the Zodiac on a higher scale. You will notice that there are certain numbers which are associated with divinity in the scriptures an other inspired writings: 1, 3, 7, 12, and multiples thereof. We have the "one God", the three personages of the trinity, the seven spirits before the throne, seven days, seventy missionaries, seven loaves of bread, we are to forgive 70 times seven, the apostles chose seven helpers, the Book of Revelations is to the seven churches, John saw seven angels with seven trumpets and even a beast with seven heads. Concerning the number twelve we find that there are twelve tribes of Israel. Joshua selected twelve men to cross the river Jordan and Jesus (Greek for Joshua) selected twelve apostles. Jesus' first words were recorded at the age of twelve, there were twenty four (2 x 12) Elders before the throne and Christ had with him 144,000 (12 x 12000) saints. All of this will hopefully give the reader a perspective so we can approach the subject of Israel with the correct humility for becoming an Israelite and approaching radioactivity are correspondences. Perhaps "becoming an Israelite" is an erroneous wording here for the power of Israel is in every man. "Recognizing the Israel within ourselves" may be a more correct term, for until it is recognized it is as if it did not exist. We're like the prodigal son who thought he could no more be a son, for he felt sure his father would disown him, but to this joy the father welcomed him with opened arms. Israel consists of those great beings who radiate the will of God throughout our galaxy yet realize the great injunction of Christ: "if any desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all." Mark 9:35. No other presence in our solar system demonstrates this law more faithfully than our Sun. Everything in our solar system is dependent on it, and receives from it much more than it gives. The Sun, being first, becomes the last in the system to receive. Thus Israelites in human form within the Kingdom of God follow this same general principle. They often leave their own planet and seek to serve others not so highly progressed on the Path. Our Earth has been the recipient those who prevail as god, gods from the sky, or Israelites a number of times. These Israelites have passed the candle lighting the God within many others native to this earth creating the foundation for a great light that is beginning to fill this little planet. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9370 From: J J Dewey Subject: Testing Truth Rob must be tuning into the Oneness Principle. He writes: "Do I sense a post about to be used as an example for applying what we've learned for discovering truth? "Hmmm . . ." The post he was referring to was the one on The Council of Nine. Let's apply some principles of discovery to discern whether or not there is any truth in this post. We must admit that there is a lot of data in this writing, but data by itself is difficult to prove or disprove. If I say that there are six planets circling around Alpha Centura how could anyone prove or disprove it? It is well nigh impossible unless you are a Master. On the other hand, if there is in reality a lot of true data in a writing there will be revealed at least a hint of some underlying principle supporting the data. Therefore, the thing to ask here is: Is there any principle revealed here and if there is, what is it? If a writing claims to be new revelation yet seems to copy old material this is an indication it came from some human or astral mind. There are two, possibly three books that motivated this writer. Which ones do you suppose they were? When true principles are grasped then a true teaching is easy to register and explain. Can anyone relate the meat of this post in a short paragraph? Is there any useful information in this post? Is there anything here that brings a flashing forth of the intuition or registers with the soul? Are there unusual words or phrases here that seem to make no sense but are written for effect on the astral nature? Was it presented as a teaching to pass by your soul or as absolute truth from a great being or beings? Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-27/9371 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Testing Truth I have to wonder how masterful are these 9 space angels that want to spread an English message through someone that has a hard time with the language. I was just reading that trust is built on common understandings, between parties. Perhaps they think we won't notice this flaw when they throw in a whole bunch of pseudoscientific phrases, to make us feel like we just aren't as smart as they and we should listen to them. Then they want us to think that they are the channel between us and God and are the source of our blessings. These guys sure do make themselves sound important. I don't remember them telling me anything new or useful. Oh well, maybe they could send it to the writers of X-files. Somebody's bound to believe it, if you put it on TV. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9372 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Testing Truth J J writes: "The post he was referring to was the one on The Council of Nine. Let's apply some principles of discovery to discern whether or not there is any truth in this post." Hi everyone Just wanted to say that I, for one, have not read "The Council of Nine". After reading through the first part on the screen, I felt no need to download what already sounded like it was a bit behind what we have already learned on this list. I don't know about the truthfulness of the Council. I certainly hope there is some truth in it, especially for those who are just beginning to awaken to asking questions. Some may find it useful and that is good. I have felt no urging to read it and if/when I become curious, I will read with an open mind keeping that which I find useful and discarding that which I do not find useful. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9373 From: J J Dewey Subject: Calling and Election I'll catch up here on some long delayed questions and then move ahead on the subject of discovery of truth. Sterling asked some time ago about more information about the third initiation of transfiguration. In other words, does one have to go through the Dweller on the Threshold and enter into the aura of the Angel of the Presence before he can be assured that he will continue on the path of light? When can he have that final assurance that we cannot fall toward the Dark Path? The scriptures make it sound as if we need to strive for the light until such a time that God decrees that "our calling and election" is made sure and from that point on it is impossible to fall. The truth is that any point of security in the light reached by us does not happen because of the decree of God, but because of our own decisions and efforts. You and I will always have free will therefore as long as we have free will there will never be a time that we cannot choose the dark as well as the light. Therefore, does this mean that we can never reach a state where our calling and election to the path of light is truly secure? Because we always have free will does this mean there is always a chance of choosing some demonic path? Not a pleasant thought is it? On the other hand, it is even less pleasant to consider a time when we may not have free will and instead function with robotic perfection. Is there really then a 100% secure position on the path of light? Fortunately there is not. Fortunately? Yes, fortunately for if there were a 100% secure position it would mean that decision and choice is no longer possible. As long as there is choice the decision will be between two paths that lead (at least temporarily) in two different directions. As long as there are two paths one will be more beneficial (or good) to chose than the other. Two differing choices will never produce exactly the same results - remember the snowflake principle. What does it mean then when some say they have obtained assurance from the Spirit, God within or Higher Self that they will not fall? Answer: If a disciple has followed the highest he knows diligently in a certain lifetime then it is possible to receive a promise that you will not loose the ground that you have gained. The higher lives know the path ahead for you and all probabilities suggest that you will continue on into the light, yet if a temptation should arise greater than you may be able to handle your life would be taken so you can preserve the advances you have made. The preservation of advances made by diligent souls is the origin of the maxim that "the good die young." In the larger scheme of things there is never a plateau reached where a person cannot retrogress and there is never a plunge into darkness so deep that is beyond the will-to-save that is in the heart of God. The Dark Brotherhood have plunged so deep that their climb out will take millions, perhaps billions of years, but no matter how deep the bottomless pit, no matter how long the path, the way of deliverance will be there when a reflection of God decides to return home. Even one who was Lucifer, a Kumara, a Son of the Morning of the Creation of Shamballa in and on the earth fell from his high estate and can no longer enter through the gates of the dwelling of the Great Ones. Some believe that he never had a body, but he had evolved through the human state in another planetary system before he came here as a celestial being with the Ancient of Days. Taking all this into consideration - can anyone be trusted? Can we even trust the Masters in the Brotherhood of Light? In answer to this one question we must always remember that there is only one thing that we can always trust and that is the Spirit of God as it speaks to us from within. One must only trust those who are without, whether it be a Master, angel or bank robber, if that which they communicate vibrates to the highest Spirit within us. If you do not feel a stimulation of the highest within you, then you are under no obligation to follow. Even though we always have free will the disciple does reach a point where he is trusted by the Brotherhood to be a co-worker on the Path. This point is the Third Initiation. Each initiation brings a greater trust of the Brotherhood toward the disciple, but the third is a crucial point because it is at this juncture that the disciple has close to 0% likelihood of going backwards, at least in this round. After going through the first initiation the disciple learns to control his physical passions and can be trusted in on this level. Later he undergoes the second initiation and masters the emotions and is not controlled by either ego or glamour. The interesting thing is that even though the seeker has gone beyond the ego he is still not trusted by the Brotherhood? Why? Because he can be deceived by illusion. As long as he can be deceived by illusion there is still a chance of him choosing the dark path. This dark choice often surfaces not because the guy has horns and is inherently evil, but because he is deceived by erroneous illusionary belief systems. This illusion can be followed with the purest intentions of doing the right thing and by the time the choice between the two paths is clearly seen the illusion makes the dark Path seem very desirable. Thus when the disciple lets all his illusions go and seeks for pure truth no matter where it leads him he will face the Dweller on the Threshold, the final illusion. When the Dweller is finally passed he enters into the Presence weighted down with no illusion. At this point he becomes a trusted worker because his choices will be made with the furtherance of the plan in mind without the influence of illusion and the chances of doing any great damage to the work of light is small. The chances of him undoing his choice for the light and choosing the dark path (in this cycle) is practically non existence. When you know a hot stove will burn you will you touch it? Not likely. On the other hand, if someone can trick you by illusion to believe the stove is cool when it is hot then maybe you will touch it. The third degree initiate cannot be tricked into thinking the hot stove is cool. Rick asks the following: "I am hoping that, in time, we can get, from these teachings, a flowchart showing the paths and connections of all the principle players involved in the evolution of mankind, on this planet. There are several different kinds of Angels talked of and a host of entities called God. He that we call Father, is not as I was taught as a child to be, the Ultimate God, nor is Jehovah, but they are each members of a Hierarchy. Who's who, who's in charge. Are there names for successive ranks, like they have in Christianity. What part does each play with us? How did we start on earth? How did we migrate and how did all the Gods coordinate our schooling. When did the 12 tribes thing start and where are they now. Etc." JJ You cannot get an accurate history from any source except from the archives of the Brotherhood of Light or a revelation from God. The time for a true and accurate answer to Rick's questions here is not yet, but is awaiting a time when records of our past will be revealed to us. I am given to understand that this will happen within the next ten to thirty years probably in several installments. At the present we have bits and pieces we put together from the scriptures and various writings of the world. If we pass them by our souls a certain amount of light will be shed as we await a greater revealing in the near future. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9374 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Calling and Election Thank you JJ, for another profound teaching. Your words carry , as usual, a ring of truth that stirs my soul. At one point in time, I thought that we could reach a point of not going backward, that at a certain point on the spiritual path we were home free (so to speak), but i was presented with clear evidence that this does not happen, some that seemed so very spiritually evolved became people i didn't know, what they had embraced became base and meaningless to them, and at that time it did upset me. Thanks to you, i, now, do understand the joy of that decision making ability,knowing that if we can always go backward (for want of a better word), we can also always go forward (same lacking applies here). love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9375 From: "* Zia" Subject: OT Space Slide Show Thought you all might want to take a look at this today, spectacular pictures from the Hubble Space Craft... click on Slide Show... just beautiful http://www.msnbc.com/news/spacelib_front.asp Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9376 From Paul Yu Subject: Re: Calling and Election Hi Sharon, Spiritual life is a spiraling movement from outer to inner layers: a process of intensification. As the balancing act moves inward it becomes increasingly intensified. As the flow of energy arrives at the negative pole everything looks bad as if the supposed progress made were a misconstruction. When bad phenomena looked surprisingly intensified the impression of going backward would naturally be a spontaneous reaction on our part. Surfacing of ancient and still existing conflicts is to be seen as the way of intensifying the ongoing process of the path rather than a bad dream that advancement were more a wishful thinking than a reality. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9377 From: "Anni West" Subject: Re: Calling and Election Hi JJ and all, It is strange because I have been thinking about some questions concerning The Dweller on the Threshold for the last couple of days, but I thought I would not ask them because it has been a long time since this was on topic. Then you return to the question today, JJ, so I'll just jump in with an additional question, if that is all right? JJ writes: "Thus when the disciple lets all his illusions go and seeks for pure truth no matter where it leads him he will face the Dweller on the Threshold, the final illusion. When the Dweller is finally passed he enters into the Presence weighted down with no illusion." Anni asks: What will happen to a person who does not pass the Dweller or some of the other tests? He tries and fails. Let imagine a disciple who is teaching in the great pyramid many years ago. He followed the highest he knew and his own still small voice and taught accordingly. But the leaders did not want this teaching to take place for some reason so slowly they twisted the truth and the teachings and this young guy did not realize it and did not manage to see through them. Only when he finished that life did he find out that he had not seen the illusion - that he had failed. What would happen to such a guy? Would he have to take some lessons (and lives) over again - forget some of what he knew and start out at a "lower" level for some lives? Could that be why somebody sometimes feels like he remembers a truth or principle instead of learning it? Love to all of you Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9378 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Calling and Election JJ writes: "The time for a true and accurate answer to Rick's questions here is not yet, but is awaiting a time when records of our past will be revealed to us. I am given to understand that this will happen within the next ten to thirty years probably in several installments." Hi JJ and all See....now I have more questions. LOL It seems you are speaking of us in the living physical state that the past will be revealed. People who have had NDE's often report that they saw their whole life go before them. So, would that mean that they get the whole kit and kaboodle at the same time? Many have had their lives changed by such experiences. And what about past life memories already received? Are memories not yet known included in the revealing of the past? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9379 From: Marylin Subject Re: OT Space Slide Show Hi Zia So glad to see you again. I tried to pull up the Hubbell site but it kept coming back saying that the search timed out or else the site was down or discontinued. Is there another way to get a look at it? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9380 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Space Side Show Hi sweet Zia, thanks for the site, roaming through this should keep me out of trouble for some time. I appreciate you sharing this with us. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9381 From: "Jamie Jenson" Subject: Re: This is a test. I can only receive mail, but I can't send any out. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9382 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Calling and Election Hi Paul, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I appreciate it. Its very comforting to know that we don't actually stop our growth, no matter how it appears to our 3D vision, and that everything is truly illusion, I simply must learn how to re-create my surroundings, daily. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9383 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Test Hi Jamie, i received your post just fine. Welcome. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9384 From: "* Zia" Subject: OT Space Photos Correction Apologies to all, cannot understand what happened, however if the following does not work, which works for me, I suggest simply going to msnbc.com, clicking on NEWS and then clicking on SPACE news, and then on 'Cosmic Classics'. However I have tested this and it does work for me .... good luck http://msnbc.com/news/338343.asp?cp1=1 Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-28/9385 From: DeHara Subject: Re: OT Space Photos Works fine for me, too. All I did was copy and paste -- got it first time! Learned along time ago it's all too easy to make a mistake when trying to copy exactly. Sorry your having trouble, Marilyn. Gorgeous views! Thank you so much, Zia, for sharing these beautiful PICS of our Universe. Fantastic! Wishing you all a Wonderfully Joyfull Millennium. Sending big Hugs and Kisses to each of you. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ XO}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Love & JoyFull Visions, Dehara Moonstar Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9386 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Lucifer Factor The Gathering of Lights Chapter Five The Lucifer Factor The Earth itself is an intelligent life form and by the power of the Spirit of God within it this great entity began to create life upon itself. It thus created numerous mineral forms (which are a form of life) and the plant kingdom, and finally the animal kingdom. Then many millions of years ago it tried unsuccessfully to create the human kingdom, but the earth found it had not reached a high enough point of evolution itself to successfully do this so help was brought in from outside of our planet. Twenty three million years ago a few Israelites of the highest order came to the earth. These were the first Adams and the greatest of them is called "the Ancient of Days" (Dan 9:13) in the Bible, the same who overshadowed Melchizedek. From time to time other Adams have been sent to act as a catalyst for the evolution of the Son of God that is within each man. The story of Adam and Eve has been repeated numerous times upon the earth and usually occurs after a great cataclysm. The great flood mentioned in the Bible and existing in numerous legends was not an isolated occurrence on this planet, but mankind has come close to annihilation many times in his long history. After such great destruction is a good time for advanced beings from other planets to actually dwell among man and teach him, sometimes even interbreeding with him. These facts are hinted at in the Bible. In the first two verses we read: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:1- 2. Generally, these two verses are read as if they are taking place in the same time sequence, but such is not the case. Verse one describes an event that took place billions of years ago and verse two describes a scene that has existed periodically on the earth in the last eighteen million years, the most recent of which took place prior to the beginning of our present civilization. In examining this scripture one may wonder how it is that the earth can be "without form and void" after it is created. It could not even be considered a planet if it was truly without form and void. Fortunately, to the justification of the original author, this is a grave mistranslation. The words "without form" are translated from the Hebrew TOHUW which literally means "to lie waste" or implies a "desolation", or "destruction". This sheds an entirely different light on the subject and as evidence that there was a time lapse between verses one and two we read that: "He (God) created it (the earth) NOT in VAIN ("Vain" comes from the same Hebrew word TOHUW) but formed it to be inhabited." Isa 45:18. Since the earth was not created in a state of TOHUW or destruction, but was formed to receive inhabitants then the period of destruction described in verse two had to take place after a significant time lapse. The word "void" comes from the Hebrew BOHUW which means "To be empty, a wasteland, sterile, or an indistinguishable ruin." There is only one other place in the Bible where these two words are used together. It is used describing the destruction of Babylon, but mistranslated: "The smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; non shall pass through it for ever and ever, but the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; and the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it; and shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion (TOHUW, desolation) and the stones of emptiness" (BOHUW, a wasteland). Isa 34:10-11. These two words were the most fitting that Isaiah could find in describing the desolate wasteland of Babylon after its destruction. These words were equally fitting for describing a time after which the earth suffered great destruction. Instead of "the earth was without form and void . . ." it should read "The earth became a desolate wasteland . . ." If the earth became a desolate wasteland, then this implies a preceding period when the desolation was not there. This time is described by Isaiah who uses dual meanings in most of his writings. Not only was Lucifer a symbol of the king of Babylon described in the Bible, but Isaiah chapter fourteen also describes a more ancient event. It talks about an ancient Lucifer who existed before recorded history who was the leader of a Babylon we have no history of. History goes in cycles and this ancient Babylon resurfaces periodically in a new form, but not even modern Babylon compares to this bygone Babylon headed by Lucifer. Keep in mind here that a fallen Lucifer is one who was a great being of light who decided to operate outside of the Oneness Principle and fell into darkness. There have been a number of such Lucifers in the history of our planet. This Biblical was at one time a high and intelligent being who lead a mighty people. His ancestors were not of this earth, but higher beings from other worlds and his appointed task was to serve mankind, but instead he decided he wanted to be served. We read: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" How did he fall from heaven? Did he come in a ship from the stars? The scripture continues: "How art thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations!" In place of the word "weaken" should be "defeat" according to the Hebrew. Instead of helping mankind to progress according to their freewill, Lucifer sought to defeat the nations of the earth and impose his supposedly higher philosophy by force just as Hitler tried to do. He tried to take away the free agency of man and obtain total control over the lives of all men. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." His basic sin here was that he wanted to exalt his throne "above the stars of God." "God" here is translated from EL as in IsraEL. The stars of God is a phrase dual in meaning. IsraEL originally came from the stars of God and Lucifer wanted to exalt his throne above all the other men of the earth who were using the power of Israel. Secondly, on the planets circling the sacred stars of God the IsraELites do not secure exalted thrones for themselves, but "the greatest of them is the servant of all". Thus, if Lucifer were to conquer the nations of the earth and become the exalted Fuhrer he would exalt himself in a physical sense much higher than his elder brothers among the stars. His ideas, however, did not extend to merely the earth, but he wanted to "ascend above the heights of the clouds" and rule other planets also and be like the most High. He thought that if he were to get control of the whole planet and its resources he could extend his rule beyond earth and overcome the peaceful planets of Israel. Lucifer was a Hitler of his time who succeeded in overcoming his Israelite brothers for a time, but unrealized by him were certain laws of cause and effect (karma) which put an end to his expansive plans. There was great natural destruction which destroyed his entire kingdom. Considering this Isaiah wrote: "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made THE WORLD AS A WILDERNESS, AND DESTROYED THE CITIES THEREOF; that opened not the house of his prisoners?" Now we see why the earth was described as a desolate wasteland in Gen 1:2. Lucifer destroyed the cities and made the world as a wilderness. Lucifer was further told: "Thou shalt not be joined with them (the kings of the earth) in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people." This was perhaps the greatest and deadliest war that has ever been fought on the earth and in the end Lucifer slew his own people fellow Israelites who were true to their calling. A third of the "stars of heaven" or fellow Israelites supported him, but these were all eventually destroyed by a higher power: "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." (All quotations are from Isaiah 14) The Karma of Lucifer and his closest followers was so great that these evil entities have not been able to take a physical body since that time. The only way that they could incarnate would be to bring down the vibration of humanity to an extremely low level, but it must be brought about by the action of the people themselves. Their first opportunity in thousands of years came through Hitler, for Hitler received a number of communications from these beings who thought along similar lines as himself and believed himself to be receiving information from God and also thought he was chosen by God to usher in the thousand years of peace which is mentioned in the Bible. The reader will recall that Hitler prophesied that the third Reich would endure a thousand years. That figure was not a random choice. Those who knew Hitler well were amazed when they heard him speak. They noticed that there was a dramatic change not only in his voice, but his whole countenance, and he seemed to be partaking of an energy that filled the whole room and affected each person present. Hitler himself was amazed at his own ability after he stunned his first small audience in the newly formed NAZI party. He had never had any experience before with public speaking, but from his first piece of oratory he was a master. Often people came to listen to him out of curiosity never dreaming that they would leave the room believing every word he said. His words seemed to truly penetrate anyone with the slightest selfish or separative motive. When Hitler finished his talking he was always as weak as a kitten, drained of energy and sweating profusely. After he sat down he seemed to be a different person again. Some people wondered about this great change and presence that seemed to overtake Hitler, but few attributed it to anything, but his intense concentration and feeling. Those who were his closest confidants knew differently. They knew he possessed a power of some supernatural sorts, a power that they thought was going to cause them to inherit the earth and be the overlords of mankind. This inner circle were members of a secret society which possessed occult knowledge directing them on the Left Hand Path. It was called The Order of the Golden Dawn. The regular Nazi party members knew nothing of it. Hitler received his first contact with the master he had chosen to obey, Lucifer, when he was a young man going to college. He was overshadowed by this being, and using Hitler's vocal chords proclaimed a message to him and another associate standing nearby. He was told that the was chosen to lead the German people to freedom and great power. Hitler naturally assumed that this message was from God and immediately accepted the idea that he was "chosen" and began to keep an eye out for the right opportunity to offer his services. He began to loose interest in art and set his eye toward politics. The reason he was contacted by Lucifer was because he exuded a similar vibration and shared the same grandiose ego, and a similar drive for power and acclaim. Here Lucifer again had a chance to introduce his ideas directly on the earth, through the sensitive medium of Hitler. Few listening to that smooth and polished voice ever dreamed that they were listening to an evil entity described in the Bible as having caused the destruction of the earth before recorded history. Hitler was a good disciple to his master, for he dedicated everything he had to his purposes. He even refused marriage, which he inwardly desired, just so he would have no interference to his cause. Money meant nothing to him either until the desired goal was obtained. Hitler sacrificed all the little money he made to insure the triumph of the Nazi party. Nor was he overindulgent in food. He was a strict vegetarian and always ate carefully. He even made the moral majority of his day happy and often insisted on strict continence of his subjects after he came to power. An interesting fact often overlooked is that Hitler was actually a sincere dedicated person who believed he was doing the world a favor. He believed it because his "God" had told him that he was chosen and that he would lead his people to great freedom. Hitler believed he saw the hand of God influencing events in his life clear up to the end. From the time of his first communication to his rise to power was only a few short years. He thought it a miracle that he should rise from obscurity in such a manner. Events and circumstances just seemed to fall in place for him as if controlled by an invisible hand, and as they did he became more and more confident. Long before he became dictator he began to act as if the power was already his. His feeling of destiny was unmatched by any warlord in recorded history. The symbol chosen by Hitler himself for the Nazi party members was the swastika with the arms extended clockwise. They symbol of itself is not evil. Not even a corrupt state will pick an object of known evil for its emblem. This symbol is as old as intelligent man and was used in ancient Egypt and other countries. The four arms represent the four ancient elements of matter: earth, water, air and fire. These in turn are represented in four signs of the zodiac: Virgo, Pisces, Gemini, and Sagittarius. The cross is symbolic of the Christ being imprisoned in the four elements of matter and crucified upon them. The whirling arms are a symbol of mastery or escape from such matter and they can either swirl clockwise or counterclockwise. Hitler chose the clockwise swirl which symbolizes the line of least resistance and creates a spiral or centripetal force which increases the hold of matter on spirit. A counterclockwise swirl portrays the soul going against the line of least resistance, going against accepted behavior and customs to escape control and this creates a centrifugal force which leads to radioactivity and soon the inner man is flung free of the grip of matter. Hitler chose the swastika with the clockwise swirls symbolizing the glorification of matter and material force and his subconscious choice to imprison the Son of God. He also placed the symbol on the LEFT arm signifying his choice of the Left Hand Path, the Dark Path, or the Path that holds light a prisoner. If Hitler had succeeded he would have lived up the Christian expectation of the Beast in Revelations Chapter 13. Among these are: 1. He would cause the world to wonder after him. 2. The dragon (an evil being) gave him his power. 3. He fought against the Jews as indicated he would. 4. He would kill all those who oppose him. 5. No one could buy or sell without his authority. 6. He made fire to come down out of heaven in the sight of men. (Hitler was the first to use rockets as weapons. He also came very close to developing the atomic bomb.) 7. He would have a "mark". (the swastika). 8. He would put numbers on the subjects. (Hitler did this to his prisoners and probably would have done it to the world if he has succeeded). 9. He would blaspheme God and his name. (Hitler had all his generals sear by the name of God that they would obey him.) 10. He would make an image to the beast which image would have "life" and "speak" and cause those who do not worship the image to be killed. Fortunately, because of the spiritual desire of the greater part of mankind for peace and freedom, God did not allow this last prophecy to be fulfilled in Hitler. Few people are aware of how close we really came to seeing the full unfolding of a full fledged AntiChrist. Hitler often spoke of the Master race who would be the "overlords" of mankind. The Germans thought he was referring to themselves, but he was not. Nevertheless, he thought the Germans were good stock and better than most. The true master race he had in mind was the return of the ancient overlords with bodies towering as high as nine feet possessing amazing and fearful strength and awesome power. To produce these beings he needed to accomplish two things. First he had to conquer the world and eliminate all who were working toward the Christ consciousness. This would allow lower souls to incarnate and put off the second coming of Christ. He would then direct this lowered thought toward the coming of the ancient gods of power. The directed mass thought of the people would have aided their power to materialize. Secondly he was to develop the technology necessary to make it possible for these evil beings to take physical form, thus his scientists put their energies into the infant science of eugenics and genetics. They would have eventually developed the art of cloning and made an image of Hitler to be occupied by Lucifer. Lucifer would have then brought in his comrades and they would have been the overlords of mankind for at least a thousand years. These beings would have been the awe of the entire earth and people would "wonder" at them and people would say "who is like unto the beast and who can make war with it." These would have been men of "dark countenance", considered wonderful physical specimens who would have much control over matter. They would have power to do "miracles" by human standards. Fortunately, Hitler was defeated and it is the overlords who cannot incarnate because of the heightened vibration of humanity. The "door" to this evil is closing, but not yet entirely shut. To keep it shut we must pay particular attention to separative and strongly nationalists states, like several in the Middle East, for instance. None of the present world leaders have a Hitler type potential, but there may be one in the woodwork. If such a man were to gain control of a nation his devices must be exposed to surrounding countries through the power of light and love. If he cannot be stopped by these godly powers because of the weakness of the people (as in World War II) then he must be met by force. The chances are now that another Antichrist after the manner of Hitler will not gain power and that the prophecies concerning him will not be literally fulfilled, just as the prophecy of Jonah was not fulfilled. It all depends on the amount of light and love generated by the people. Darkness cannot hold sway when exposed to the warm rays of the sun. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9387 From: Marylin Subject: Re: "This is a test. I can only receive mail, but I can't send any out." Hi Jamie. Your test came through just great here. Try a "reply" to this and let's see if it works. Love and Light Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9388 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Space Photos Correction Thanks for the new address, Zia. It worked great and the site is a real wonder. I will truly enjoy "being in space" with all the neat pictures. LOL Love and Light Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9389 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Fw: The Lucifer Factor Wow Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9390 From: Jean Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-12-29 of The Keys of Knowledge List Dear J.J, It was interesting reading the "thought" of Hitler and this Secret Society, what I do question is where you are getting this information from, I am curious to where so I can read more about these things for myself, if you could let me know the basis of your learnings I would appreciate it. Also if you could post that answer to the keys list and directly to me I would appreciate it, Sometimes I do not receive all the posts on the keys list since I am getting it in Digest form. Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9391 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Hitler not strict vegetarianism "David's Outcasts e-group" , This point of correction in from a Vegan friend who wishes to remain anon. Sterling Original Message -From: *anon* To: "Allan, Sterling" JJ Dewey wrote of Adoph Hitler: "Nor was he overindulgent in food. He was a strict vegetarian and always ate carefully." The "Hitler was a vegetarian" myth is commonly and innocently perpetuated. It can easily be refuted by the testimonies of those who cooked for him. At times Hitler experimented with vegetarianism especially when feeling poorly, and this appears to have been wholly selfishly motivated. Surely, this man was not overly preoccupied with lessening the shedding of blood or the alleviation of pain. Finally, his flirtation with vegetarianism may have been linked with his desire to emulate composer Richard Wagner who he greatly admired. Jim C Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9392 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: The Lucifer Factor more feedback on J J's post. Original Message -From: "David Skousen" To: "'David's Outcasts'" Subject: RE: [888] Fw: The Lucifer Factor David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts/ Very, very interesting. Whereas Hitler may have believed himself to be serving God, I think this is a good opportunity to make the point that JJ Dewey is very friendly to portions of the same philosophy. It makes for wonderful reading. But it does not compute. Lucifer is a bringer of light. Lucifer is misunderstood. Lucifer is a mystery. There is much more to the story. Anyone intelligent enough to see the true source of power will see love. The Lucifer we see portrayed is totally selfish. Total selfishness is dumb. It is also stupid, blind, always shooting itself in the foot (or head), and cannot last. Such beastly characteristics we attribute to Lucifer, the Dragon, but they just happen to be attributes of the physical body that wars against the spirit, are they not? They are undeveloped, and crude. They are moronic and ridiculous when seen in a more intelligent light. Would Lucifer be so dumb? Yes, most of us say, because his ego is so big--he is that dumb. Perhaps so. But I say there is another story here, and I'm not going to pretend to know the answers, but I suggest that we see that a loving Father instituted a "Lucifer principle" in each of us and he may be our god in this world, perhaps the only supreme god with whom we have to do--in the temporal sense only. I'm not denying that there is also a spirit named Lucifer. However, I believe that the story JJ tells of ancient beings coming from other planets and the mingling of seed is great fiction. If true, it turns the Plan of Salvation into shambles--the idea of agency, that God controls the planet, that we are not tempted beyond what we can endure, and so forth. On the other hand, a God of Love SENDS DECEPTION to try our hearts. What greater deception than to misconstrue the identity, purpose and function of the deceiver? Let's learn from our deception by asking ourselves, "Why should I believe this?" or "Why do I WANT or NOT WANT to believe this?" Therein lie the keys to understand our impurities. Such is the blessing of deception. --David Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9393 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Lucifer Factor A very stimulating and readable book with interesting insight into Hitler, his occult powers, etc is 'The Spear of Destiny' by Trevor Ravenscroft. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9394 From: "D.O.O.R" Subject: Re: The Lucifer Factor My wife was reading this today while doing some traveling. I couldn't help but think that while reading and pondering the genesis account of the creation, grandiose lacunas (large missing pieces) occurred in the story available today. I suppose it could be compared to writing, in a handful of verses, the salient points from the founding of the United States to the year 2000. The recorded history would necessarily be highly condensed (abridged) with little specifics of what actually happened. So, for me, putting the big puzzle of this space ship earth together, one gets a tid bit here and a tid bit there, and grateful am I for that....Pablo J J wrote: "The Gathering of Lights Chapter Five The Lucifer Factor" Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9395 From: "* Zia" Subject: D.O.O.R. Blank Message D.O.O.R. your 44k message was blank. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9396 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: Fw: Paradigm Shifting Or Not Another warrior response at David's Outcasts regarding the recent complaining about the writings of J J Dewey, specifically this time the one on Lucifer and Hitler. Indeed the process of awakening and accepting new ideas can be painful as one has to realize that things they believed in the past with a passion may not have been completely accurate after all. But being willing to submissively go through this pain, I believe, is part of becoming as a child, which is prerequisite to entering into (awakening to) the kingdom of heaven and bringing it to earth. Original Message --From: Craig Tholson To: David's Outcasts Subject: [888] {888}Paradigm Shifting Or Not David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts/ You folks confuse me. Are you part of David's outcasts of old? It strikes me a bit odd that you get this far and now you are afraid or you miss your mommy. I will try to put this in as simple of words as I can. I did not wake out of my slumber over night. I did not do it in one year. Waking up is a life long pursuit. It never ends. Hint: Over the last ten years I have come to understand many things which I never would have supposed as a "prisoner" of the structured belief system we so thoughtlessly call Mormonism. Joseph Smith would be proud to know that some of you believed him when he said, "We believe all things." Now I'm sure you are going to force me to qualify that statement. Here goes: Joseph meant that we should believe all things, but only if they are true. Give me a break, here. What is Alma's seed all about if it isn't about being open enough to plant the seed of any information and let the spirit work with you to find out about it - whatever it is. This is how I see it: I bought into the Church hook, line & sinker when I converted in 1981. Legitimate questions began to arise, but I refused to believe that there could be anything but "THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH." I was a child in a child's religion. I needed the Church's blanket of comfort, safety & ratification. While I was a member, I saw the endowment altered considerably, members were forbade to meet in each others homes unless directed under Church sanction,... I will agree that this amounts to revelation from the brethren to guide their Church. But I smell a rat when I am told that I cannot ask certain questions. I cannot talk about the gospel with others who want to meet with me and do so. I see this amount of control as appropriate for anyone who stays and plays in the Church. I don't make up their rules - they do! It has been over 7 years since I wrote Adam-God and got ex'd. It took me a while to break free of my fear that God would punish me if I broke ranks with the brethren. But it was they who broke me and said I was not welcome any longer if I talked about the subject. When the spirit teaches me truth I tell as many people as will listen. Now, as for "NEW AGE." What are you guys talking about? The Fear-Mongers of the planet label information in convenient categories so they don't have to deal with it. As a Mormon you are told that New Age is Godless and it will lead you off the straight and narrow path. My book was labeled as "spiritual pornography" and of course, apostasy, that convenient category which includes both child molesters and those who read Joseph and Brigham's unedited writings. Get this one fact through your hard heads and then you can move on with much less fear to learn the mysteries of Godliness: If Joseph and Brigham were here today, they would have nothing to do with the system we call Mormonism. If this point is not self-evident to you, then you are not shifted into the next paradigm which must needs follow mainstreaming. If you sincerely care about the truth as a Mormon, then you will find yourself very uncomfortable as you wake from your slumber. You will crash the vehicle you have been cruising in. You will then look for the next best mode of transportation to operate in, but the Church will haunt you. You will ask, "Have I strayed?" "Has the spirit left me?" "What is to become of me?" Others will point their fingers at you from the great and spacious building in scorn, and it will occur to you that you used to be in that very building and thought that you were indeed on the path with a firm grip on the rod. If you have shifted your paradigm sufficiently, you will begin to notice that what you were taught was black, is really white. You will find the Spirit of God in serendipity and be led on an adventure to discover who you really are, where you really came from, and what a resurrection really is. You will love the Church for nurturing you as an infant and honor them for serving those who rely upon them still. But what of this "NEW AGE?" Some of it is worthless. I know because I have read and felt much of it. But I have found pearls of great price in the most unexpected of places. May you all take courage and the guidance of the spirit and venture forth and do as Christ would have done - bust the falsehoods of this system in favor of truth, light and freedom. Trust no one but God. Man will continue to fail you. Craig Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9397 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Fw: Paradigm Shifting Or Not Sterling writes: "But what of this "NEW AGE?" Some of it is worthless. I know because I have read and felt much of it. But I have found pearls of great price in the most unexpected of places.' "May you all take courage and the guidance of the spirit and venture forth and do as Christ would have done - bust the falsehoods of this system in favor of truth, light and freedom. Trust no one but God. Man will continue to fail you. Craig" Hi Craig I applaud you for your coming forth with such clearness about how so many churches are today. I come from a Baptist background and I, too, was looked upon as "in league with the devil". I was fortunate to have a Dad who began studying Yoga when I was only 10 and I was influenced greatly by it. I went to church alone when I was little because it was my choice. I was in my 30s before I began my search for truth in earnest, but the age doesn't matter. It's the search and seeking that counts. Hats off to you. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9398 From: Margaret Leach Subject: OT Pray/Meditate/Vision Peace Below is a message from James Redfield, author of the Celestine Prophecy, about the peace wave happening around the world just before midnight New Year's Eve. Sounds to me like a good time to do the Song! I'll see you in the "wave"! :-) Love and Light, Margaret Subject: A Message from James Redfield Date: Mon, Dec 27, 1999, 2:23 AM Great news. Thanks to you, the moment of prayer for the new millennium vigil has grown faster than anyone expected. As of December 15, forty five thousand people had registered on our web site - www.celestinevision.com to give us their estimate of who, among their friends, have committed to participate. Our numbers could be even larger than we think. What we are doing with this prayer vigil is becoming truly historic. Pass the word! With love, James Redfield Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-30/9399 From: DeHara Subject: OT More Invitations for Peace and Goodwill Celebrations Greetings All, Below is an announcement of invitation from Susan Rose to join with others via the net in a group prayer, with particular focus toward Jerusalem. Included also is information on a few more events we can participate in for the New Millennium. You can even Plant Your Time Capsule Wish. Isn't it great to see more and more wonderful beings to coming together for peace and goodwill? I second Margaret, "Sounds to me like a good time to do the Song!" Love and Joyfull New Millennium to All, Dehara SusanRose wrote: %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% )Gaia*Friends( http://www.city-net.com/~arianna %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dear Friends: With so many opportunities to gather with others, I feel nevertheless compelled to offer to you, my friends the opportunity to gather on the internet relay chat channel on New Year's Eve You can use the web page entrance at http://www.city-net.com/~arianna/howto.html Please plant your time capsule into the cornerstone for the building of a new millennium Share where you are and what your wish is for your locality and for the world. This will be Dec 31, 1999 (tomorrow). We will end with a group prayer, with particular focus to Jerusalem. The area that has so much potential for a second coming ....of love and peace and forgiveness for members of all religions. For this reason, we will meet at 5pm Eastern Standard time which is -5 to Greenwich time, and will be midnight in Israel This short meeting (less structure, more dialog with others) will last about 30 minutes. that is Dec 31 1999 5pm eastern 4pm central 3pm mountain 2pm pacific it is in the morning Jan 1 in New Zealand if others there can coordinate the time... please come. Let peace prevail! and remember... never worry when we can pray if you can't pray you better worry. (smile) Love to you Susanrose PS I might mention that at another time, there is a nice message to be broadcast on real audio, see the web page for details. His Holiness the Dalai Lama's MILLENNIUM MESSAGE http://www.WorldPuja.org. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9400 From: "Xavier Dolleans" Subject: OT Re: Rain Jennifer Hampson writes: "? : xavier doll_ans xavier22@club-internet.fr Envoy_ : jeudi 30 d_cembre 1999 03:54 Objet : Rain "Hi Xavier, I have seen France take a terrible beating from the weather this last week, and have thought often of you. If you have the time and are able to send a message to reassure me that you are ok, I'd appreciate it. Jennifer (from Keysters)" X Oh yes, I'm okay;-) I'm in the suburb of Paris, there has been few damages here. I only lost a few..how do you call these pieces of clay that are on the roof? Well, day before yesterday I was (at night!) on my roof fixing it lol. It's in the countryside that the damage is fierce, inundation and so on. I'll send that to the list in case some others need to be reassured. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9401 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Re: Rain Xavier writes: "Well, day before yesterday I was (at night!) on my roof fixing it lol." Hi Xavier I am really glad to hear that you are okay. Sorry about the roof tiles, but it's better them than you. Hope the weather clears up nicely for you. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin PS Have a Happy New Year. (throw confetti in the air) Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9402 From: J J Dewey Subject: A Proven Reality My Friends, John's forum received a question that is worthy of a response. "I am reading a book that states that there is no factual evidence that an actual entity called Jesus the Christ ever existed. It further supposes that the Son that is worshiped today as the Light of God that breaks the hold of Darkness is the SUN. It goes on to say 'The Christians portray Jesus with a halo around his head and that's exactly how the Phoenicians depicted the rays of the sun around the head of their Sun God, Bel or Bil.' it also says that Virgin births are recorded through-out history. Zecharia Sitchin says the Sumerian writings have all the same stories as the bible, but much different time frames. There is much proof of a great flood on the Sphinx in Egypt. "There is an abundance of questions racing around in my brain, I feel the answers are just around the corner, but which corner. Any thoughts/information you could offer would be greatly appreciated. The instrument of suffering and death (the cross) as a symbol of love and light never made a lot of sense to me and I created much discomfort in church in my early years with questions I was not supposed to have, basically because they couldn't be answered by those I questioned. Thanking you in advance for any insight, I am your loving friend." JJ First I might add that a similarity of stories from different cultures add to the validity that something like that did happen, but perhaps not the way we have been presented. Secondly many things happen in cycles and there have been many great floods in our history. Concerning Jesus some have said that he was just made up by Constantine around 325 AD after he decided he needed a major religion with which to rule the world. Now let us look at the logic of this possibility. Let us suppose that Bill Clinton wanted to establish a new religion around a phantom character who is supposed to be the most loving and intelligent person who ever walked the earth. First of all he would have to find four books, similar to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, that would witness to this phantom figure. These accounts would have to be credible enough to be accepted as true by the common populace. But the greatest feat that Clinton would face would be in finding words attributed to this Messiah that would be considered by almost all people who read them to be the greatest words ever spoken. Imagine the difficulty in even creating a new "sermon on the mount?" In 2000 years no one has been able to give such a profound short speech. Perhaps the closest would be the Gettysburg address by Lincoln but most scholars will admit that this comes in a distance second to the words of Jesus. Now it may be true that the Buddha and others said something similar in the past. It is difficult to write anything entirely new, but one must admit that the way the sermon was put together was much more profound than any teacher of the past. He also gave profound parables with multiple meanings and almost every word attributed to him had such a profound meaning that none has been able to duplicate. For Instance: You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. The first shall be last and the last first. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I and my Father are One Ye Are Gods Father forgive them for they know not what they do. What other figure in history real or imagined has said such profound words over and over again? None that I know of. So, if Bill Clinton wanted to create a false messiah he would have to have his staff put together something like the New Testament with 27 books testifying to the divinity of the man. Then after he puts it together it would have to be so believable that the general population would accept it. Now if such a falsehood were to present itself there would be a large percentage that would not swallow it hook line and sinker. Many of these would leave writings exposing the fraud. Even considering hat the ancient emperors had much greater power than Clinton this feat would still be close to impossible. An Emperor would have to pick a fairly well established religious belief to create a new Messiah around it. It is interesting that no one questions the historical validity of Mohammed, Buddha or even the obscure Zoroaster, but with Jesus they will claim that he and his teachings were made up on a lark. When you bring the possibility of duplicating this up to the modern era the impossibility of it becomes obvious. The very fact that the man and his teachings have withstood the test of time is perhaps the greatest testimony to his reality. The fact that we have 27 books in the New Testament testifying of him plus hundreds of ancient works that never made it into the Bible is a very strong witness that is completely obviated by those who wish to prove Jesus to be an imaginary character. Few historians doubt that Jesus existed, but many believe that what has been recorded about him may not be entirely accurate. The Book of Mormon was written as a second witness for Christ. Many have read this and have received additional confirmation about him. A powerful modern witness is the writings given through Alice A. Bailey. This is one of the latest revelations of the Brotherhood and when one reads her works a sensitive person cannot help but get soul confirmation. Her writings testify to the validity of the Biblical Christ. Another book that brought me closer to him was The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi. You can download this free from my web page. Someone questioned my statement that Hitler was a vegetarian. I had never read anything to the contrary so I decided to do a little research. I found that the vegetarians who are somewhat purist in belief are very offended at the thought that Hitler could have been a vegetarian and are digging up everything they can to prove that he was not one of them. Here are the facts as far as I can ascertain them. From 1931 on Hitler was mainly on a vegetarian diet, but was not 100% strict with it. He did deviate now and then and eat a little meat just like many "vegetarians" that I know. It is an interesting contrast that while Hitler was this squeaky clean abstainer from meat, alcohol and tobacco his counterpart in the free world, Winston Churchill, was just the opposite. Churchill ate lots of meat, smoked and could drink most people under the table. If one goes by outward appearances only many of the true lights of the planet will be overlooked. By the way I gave the wrong address for that Dilbert cartoon the other day. The correct one is: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/cal-13.html Very Funny. Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9403 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: {OT} Biggest Spikes of 1999 By Julie Foster (c) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com While most news organizations end each year with retrospective replays of what they consider to be the year's top news stories, the editors of WorldNetDaily have for years found it more newsworthy to publish a yearend compilation of the 10 most important unreported or underreported news events of the year. Hence, "Operation Spike." In the past, WND has made the selection itself. But this year, WorldNetDaily asked its readers to submit what they considered the most "spiked" stories of 1999 in the Operation Spike forum. Readers responded with tremendous enthusiasm, submitting so many spiked stories that WND editors were left wondering just what the establishment media did cover. Clinton scandals ranked among the most spiked stories in general. In fact, more than half of the stories submitted dealt specifically with President Clinton and his various scandals, many of which the press seemed conspicuously to avoid. From campaign finance fouls to his impeachment, President Clinton made all the news -- but somehow managed to stay out of the news. A spiked story that received one of the largest number of votes was the allegation by Juanita Broaddrick that she was raped by then-Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton. Although the interview with Broaddrick was broadcast on network TV during prime time, the press ignored it completely, even though a Zogby public opinion poll showed that most Americans either believe Clinton is guilty of the 1978 rape of Broaddrick, or say that more information is needed to make a true judgment. As one reader put it: "The president is credibly accused on national television of rape, and no one bats an eye." Here are the rest of WND's top 10 spiked stories for 1999: Clinton's impeachment trial included no live witnesses, and no investigation was made into the now- sealed documents in the Ford building which enumerate his dealings with Communist China as well as other scandalous accounts. The lack of coverage of the testimony by four FBI agents before a congressional committee describing the obstruction of justice by the Justice Department concerning the president's dealings with China left a deafening silence, as did the media's complacency on Clinton's use of the IRS. IRS audits have been imposed on an inordinate number of Clinton critics, and executive orders that fly in the face of the U.S. Constitution abound. The commander in chief handed over the vital Panama Canal to the defenseless and corrupt nation of Panama, admitting publicly that the Chinese will have de facto control over the waterway. In his uncharacteristically candid Oval Office remarks to the press -- which he later recanted -- the president claimed he believed China would do its best in running the canal. The establishment media buried the critical China-Panama connection on the proverbial sports page. President Clinton may have had his share of winks and nods with the press, keeping his actions off the front page, but he isn't the only one ignored by most of the news media. The U.S. military has been performing joint training exercises and operations with local police departments across the nation using military equipment. This militarization of local police could be in preparation for Y2K or it could signal further federal infringement of the rights of local governments -- or both. Yet, outside of the terrified local populations where live-fire military maneuvers have taken place, no one knows, since the "mainstream" press has not considered it a story worthy of coverage. On the subject of Y2K, there is a big difference between what the government has said -- don't worry, everything's all right, fill your gas tank half full today -- and what it has done -- built elaborate command-and- control bunkers and put every emergency agency in the nation on full alert, for the first time in history. The brutal murder of 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising by two homosexual men is among the most buried stories of the year, particularly in contrast to the transcendent long-term coverage of the murder of Mathew Shepard, the young Wyoming homosexual, which became one of the major news events of the year. Finally, the upcoming Millennium Forum, May 22-26, 2000, and Millennium Assembly and Summit at the United Nations, beginning Sept. 5, 2000, though they have not yet occurred, are of such immense significance that WND believes the mere announcement of these meetings should have been widely reported. The next session of the U.N., will be the "Millennium Assembly," during which all heads of state will gather to discuss global government. The "Millennium Forum" has a written objective "to suggest new possibilities for an organizational structure whereby the peoples of the world can participate effectively in global decision-making in the context of the United Nations system." "The establishment press has not served Americans well this year," said WorldNetDaily founder and Editor Joseph Farah, "or any recent year for that matter. The traditional role of a free press is to be a watchdog on government. But most of the big media seem more intent on covering up for the government than on covering their corruption," he said. "WorldNetDaily still believes in approaching news reporting the old fashioned way -- by actually digging out and bringing forth the truth," said Farah. "In the coming year, readers once again can count on WorldNetDaily to investigate and present the truly important stories that are unreported, spun and spiked by the establishment press." Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9404 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Rain Let me join the chorus, Xavier, in saying how relieved we are to hear you are OK. Lost tiles we can all handle, but never a lost Xavier. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9405 From: John Kosior Subject: Joyous New Year Hi Folks, I want to take this moment to wish you all the greatest joy in this New Year. I would, like most, wish you happiness for your future, but happiness is always dependent on the things which happen, while joy speaks of that permanent quality which can exist within us despite anything that may happen. And so I say, may all the earth know that enduring quality that we call joy. And may that quality truly be our strength. Both now, and in the future. A JOYOUS NEW YEAR TO US ALL! Your Friend, John K Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9406 From: "D.O.O.R" Subject: OT-Humans Need to Lighten Up........ Thought I would share this rather long post from another list dealing with Christian Reconstructionism, its origin and it's basis of Male Dominism, which I believe it of the adversary. It may provide some incite for exposing Christian Reconstructionism for what it really is, as it appears to be growing within this country under the guise that this is Gods way.....Pablo From: David Weber [illusions] Humans Need to Lighten Up........ I just sent the following to a friend for repost on another forum. It's a long post, and probably a repost, but worthy of careful consideration by all who think that there is any reasoning with religionists. Notice how Christian Reconstructionism grew out of Presbyterianism, which itself is a cult of Calvinism of which Puritans were a sub cult as well, extreme sanctions and the real name of the game is Male Domination, what the Promise Keepers call "Man as Spiritual Leader". Anyone who is at all familiar with the implications of "spiritual leadership" realizes that the Spiritual Leader lays down and interprets the "Law" of his god, or more specifically his interpretation of the law - hence true Solipsism, in which the man uses something called god as a ventriloquist dummy. That there are women who follow does not speak much for their level of intelligence, self esteem or awareness. The concurrence between Fundamental Judaism and Fundamental Christianity, especially Christian Reconstructionism which has at is foundation death for gays, feminists and marginal Christians amongst others. Notice that Christian Reconstructionism is the driving ideology of the Christian Right in the 1990's, the motivation, male dominance and female submission. "http://www.publiceye.org/pra/magazine/chrisre1.html A long post below, clips and snips, links point to Fundamental Judaism and Fundamental Christianity, especially Christian Reconstructionists (Gary North the Y2K gloom and doomer). The common link between Fundamental Judaism and Fundamental Christianity, man is head of the family and the wife and children are submissive, death to homosexuals, marginal believers, non believers http://www.nishma.org/topics/jew_nonjew/frei.html.html http://www.chabad.org/gopher/outlook/7laws/7laws.008.htm It is argued in the name of Rabbi Akiva that all relationships that warrant the death penalty in a Jewish court of law also will receive the death penalty in a Gentile court of law. This includes a relationship that exists through marriage (i.e. mother-in-law or daughter-in-law). The reason is that since one's father's wife is forbidden and this is a relationship that came about through marriage, we extrapolate and say that all relatives that are related through marriage are forbidden and such relationships are punishable by the courts. Others say that only the father's wife is in this forbidden category and they exclude other relatives through marriage. 5. Forbidden relationships, other than relatives, are: A. Another man's wife. B. A male with a male. C. A person (male or female) with an animal. 6. A man is forbidden to have relations with another man's wife, whether she is the wife of another Gentile or the Jewish wife of a Jew. Since the Gentile wife of a Jew is not considered his wife, she is permissible. Under the Seven Universal Laws, a woman is considered to be a man's wife when the couple has sexual relations with the intent of marriage. 7. If a married woman performs an act of sodomy or abnormal intercourse with a man (anything other than vaginal penetration), he is not liable for his act inasmuch as this is not considered the way for a man to be with a woman. But concerning other forbidden relationships, a man is liable for punishment even if the relationship is sodomy and not in the normal manner of intercourse. 8. A man is liable for punishment even if there were only slight penetration during the act of intercourse. Some are of the opinion that one is free of liability if there is only slight penetration. Note: this category of being free of liability refers to punishment by the courts, but in every instance where a person violates the essence of a commandment, even where the courts have no jurisdiction, he still liable for punishment from G-d even if her leaving is against his will. 9. A man is not punished by the courts for having relations with a married woman unless he has intercourse with her in the normal manner (vaginal penetration), and not until after she has consummated her marriage with her husband. But if she is engaged and not yet married, even if she is standing under the wedding canopy, and there has been no consummation of the marriage, he is not liable for punishment by the courts. By this law, we are referring to a Noahide man with a Noahide woman. Regarding an Israelite woman, if she is engaged and has not yet consummated the married, he receives death by strangulation. If she has consummated the marriage, he receives decapitation by sword, and if she is an unmarried maiden, he is stoned to death (as is a Jewish man). 10. In times when there was slavery, if a Noahide man designated a specific female slave for his male slave, and then had relations with her, he was killed because of it. She was considered another man's wife. However, the master was not condemned until it had become public knowledge that such and such a slave had been given to each other. And when did she become permissible again? When she separated from his slave and uncovered her head in the marketplace (i.e. demonstrates publicly that she is available to any man). 11. The concept of divorce with regard to Noahides is a matter of dispute. One opinion holds that there is no divorce possible. (The Ran) Another opinion states that there is no writ of divorce necessary, rather that divorce is dependent solely on the volition of either spouse, even if the other is against the divorce. They separate due to the desire of either one and the thing is done. (The Rambam) Others contend that the woman can divorce her husband, but that the husband cannot divorce his wife. 12. One who caresses a forbidden member of the opposite sex, or hugs or kisses in a manner of lust, or has close personal contact for the sake of pleasure, transgresses the commandment prohibiting forbidden relationships, but he is not punished by the courts. In all cases where the courts are not empowered to act, punishment is meted out by G-d. http://www.chabad.org/gopher/outlook/sheva/ http://www.konformist.com/1999/y2k/gnorth.htm" http://www.konformist.com/1999/y2k/gnorth.htm< Check this site out for the lowdown on the mentality of Christian Fundamentalists or use your browser search engine and type in Christian Reconstrucion or Reconstructionism. http://www.publiceye.org/pra/magazine/chrisre1.html Epitomizing the Reconstructionist idea of Biblical "warfare" is the centrality of capital punishment under Biblical Law. Doctrinal leader(notably Rushdoony, North, and Bahnsen) call for the death penalty for a wide range of crimes in addition to such contemporary capital crimes as rape, kidnapping, and murder. Death is also the punishment for apostasy(abandonment of the faith), heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, "sodomy or homosexuality," incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and, in the case of women, "unchastity before marriage." According to Gary North, women who have abortions should be publicly executed, "along with those who advised them to abort their children." Rushdoony concludes: "God's government prevails, and His alternatives are clear-cut: either men and nations obey His laws, or God invokes the death penalty against them." Reconstructionists insist that "the death penalty is the maximum, not necessarily the mandatory penalty." However, such judgments may depend less on Biblical Principles than on which faction gains power in the theocratic republic. Reconstructionism has expanded from the works of a small group of scholars to inform a wide swath of conservative Christian thought and action. While many Reconstructionist political positions are commonly held conservative views, what is significant is that Reconstructionists have created a comprehensive program, with Biblical justifications for far right political policies. Many post-World War II conservative, anticommunist activists were also, if secondarily, conservative Christians. However, the Reconstructionist movement calls on conservatives to be Christians first, and to build a church-based political movement from there. For much of Reconstructionism's short history it has been an ideology in search of a constituency. But its influence has grown far beyond the founders' expectations. As Reconstructionist author Gary North observes, "We once were shepherds without sheep. No longer." What is Reconstructionism? Reconstructionism is a theology that arose out of conservative Presbyterianism (Reformed and Orthodox), which proposes that contemporary application of the laws of Old Testament Israel, or "Biblical Law," is the basis for reconstructing society toward the Kingdom of God on earth. Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely "social" or "moral" issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a "Biblical world view" and "Biblical principles" by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: "The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law." More broadly, Reconstructionists believe that there are three main areas of governance: family government, church government, and civil government. Under God's covenant, the nuclear family is the basic unit. The husband is the head of the family, and wife and children are "in submission" to him. In turn, the husband "submits" to Jesus and to God's laws as detailed in the Old Testament. The church has its own ecclesiastical structure and governance. Civil government exists to implement God's laws. All three institutions are under Biblical Law, the implementation of which is called "theonomy." http://www.truthbeknown.com/theocracy.htm Will America Become a Theocracy? In response to the deadly hoax I expose in my book The Christ Conspiracy, I received from a reader a disturbing outline of what the future may hold for America, as well as for other places. This person confirms impressions I've had for years but had hoped would not come to fruition. The scenario is that the U.S. is being pushed towards a fascistic theocracy, based primarily on Judeo-Christian ideology, emulating the firm and merciless hand of Islam's mullahs and omams. Under such a fascist theocracy, books such as mine would be banned and burned, and freethinkers such as I would be jailed or executed. The "Noahide Laws" would be followed to the letter, as would many others found in the Bible, including capital punishment for "sexual deviation" such as homosexuality. The first of the Seven Noahide Laws is described at Leviticus24:16:"He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. "This outrageous and inhumane law was lampooned in Monty Python's brilliant and enlightening "Life of Brian." The concept of "God" has been utterly culturally dependent, and those freethinkers who have questioned it have often constituted some of the most intelligent, honest and brave human beings around. The second Noahide Law is against "idolatry": "Any teaching or belief system that attempts to deify man (any man) or to humanize God is idolatry. "Since the definition of "idolatry" is also culturally dependent, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus, among many others, would all be considered criminals. Islam, of course, takes this law to the extreme, fervently banning "idolatrous images." However, in other times and eras "God" was viewed as a female, such that, were such cultural biases reversed, the worship of God as a giant man in the sky, as found in Islam and Judaism, would also be considered idolatry. Under this law, the precepts of Buddhism would be illegal, since Buddhism is designed to recognize and produce the "god within," and to thus treat people and other sentient beings with dignity and respect, as godly entities. The third law is against theft. "Theft," of course, is also ambiguous, as one could easily argue the case that the Federal Reserve's business is "theft." While the Noahide cult considers "adultery" as the "theft" of the wife, it doesn't seem to recognize that taking sons and daughters away from their mothers and fathers, through warfare and the murder of "infidels," also constitutes "theft." Forcing people to conform to a belief in "God" or other intangible concept would also constitute "theft" of one's intellectual freedom. "Murder" is the subject of the fourth Noahide Law, based on Genesis 9:6: "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed. "Naturally, putting people to death for blaspheming the Name of the Omnipotent, who could not possibly be harmed by such measly assaults, would NOT constitute murder. Nor would it be "murder" to slaughter entire cultures (genocide) in that very same sacrosanct Name, as is the behavior of the "chosen people" depicted throughout the Old Testament. Such murder, as long as it is done by the group who makes up the rules, is perfectly acceptable. Under this law, doctors who perform abortions, along with their nurses and the patients themselves, could also be put to death, in effect murdering real, living breathing humans to protect the nebulous "unborn." The fifth Noahide Law is against "illicit sex," which includes homosexuality and "fornication," i.e., sex outside of marriage. However, polygamy or more, appropriately, "polygamy," or "many wives" is exempt from this law, as is the possession of "concubines." The determination of what is considered "sexually immoral" has been a cultural artifact, not a writ from "God." Cultures that have different sexual practices, such as the Tibetans, who for centuries practiced "polyandry," or "many husbands," would be considered deviant and criminal. The Tibetans had practical reasons for such practices: They lacked land and had to keep the population down. The sixth law discusses the establishment of "courts of justice." These "courts of justice," naturally, would be based on the Noahide Laws. Harsh punishments, such as the death penalty, would be strictly enforced. The seventh Noahide Law proscribes the "eating of the limb of a living animal." Genesis 9:4: "Only the flesh with the life thereof with the blood thereof thou shalt not eat." Seems sane and humane enough. Hard to believe, however, that such a law would be necessary, but apparently there was an epidemic of such foul behavior among the biblical people. Lest some think that these archaic and culturally biased laws are not applicable or relevant to 20-21st century America: [quote] On March 26, 1991 U.S. President George Bush, signed into law a congressional resolution on the Seven Laws (H.J. Resolution 104, Public Law 102-14). In part it states: "Whereas Congress recognized the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; "Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws; "Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stand in serious peril of returning to chaos; "Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society; "Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of the Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future. . ." [endquote] Such legislation is indicative of what the future holds, i.e., a fascist theocracy, in which the death penalty would be wielded freely. I ask the readers to examine their belief systems, especially those promulgated by the monolithic religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Each of these ideologies is despotic and designed as a method to control the masses, as well as to pit them against each other. While many people are becoming hip to the numerous political conspiracies, they likewise need to realize that the scoundrels who are manipulating and exploiting them politically are the SAME puppet masters behind the world's organized religions. Romans 13:"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. . .. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. "And to whom is honor due? "Honor the emperor." (1 Pet. 2:17) As I demonstrate in my book The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by a multinational cabal of members of the various religions, sects, cults, mystery schools and secret societies in the Roman Empire and beyond. This artifice was designed to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion. The much later Christian offshoot, evangelizing Protestantism, is currently being funded worldwide by governmental agencies for various nefarious purposes. The average individual is merely a pawn in the religion game and business, which rakes in 100's of billions, if not trillions, of dollars annually. Such profitable business is supported by the blind belief in the preachings of so-called religious authorities. It would be best for the world if people would "question authority" and thoroughly investigate what they have believed in, often merely because they have been programmed by it since birth. 1999 Acharya S. http://www.truthbeknown.com/proof.htm Proof That God Doesn't Exist, Prayer Doesn't Work And Religion Creates Psychosis "A believer is a bird in a cage. A freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing." Robert Ingersoll At the top of this website is a prayer: "God, protect me from your followers." Well, needless to say, it doesn't work, thereby providing concrete proof that God doesn't exist and that prayer doesn't work. And those who have squeaked through the supernatural protective net have expressed psychosis, which proves that religion creates it. Some of the nutty messages received include the following. I could provide the names of the people who sent them, but these comments are so generic and typical that they apply to basically any blind believer, with the emphasis on blind. "Your time will come!" This could be taken two ways: The friendly interpretation is that someone is wishing me luck in my teaching. The hateful interpretation is that I am being condemned to judgment by a monstrous god person. "Eternity is a long time to be wrong!" All freethinkers have heard this idiotic retort, which is a more refined version of "You're going to hell!" This comment is completely psychotic, in that these blind believers believe there is a "loving" and "forgiving" god person who will hideously punish anyone who dares to question "his" existence. Obviously, we reject such an ugly concept, so this threat doesn't scare us. Also, what if YOU'RE wrong? You have condemned millions of people to hell in your thoughts and words, not to mention that, if you're a Christian, you believe the Jews are guilty of killing God! These are pretty heinous accusations, so you had better be sure that you're not wrong. Blind belief is not a win-win situation. Indeed, it is intellectually dishonest and harmful. "When you die, you will meet your Maker and fall down on your knees before Jesus and ask His forgiveness." Ditto with the above. Why would the "omnipotent" Jesus and "His Father" be so threatened by our unbelief? Did "He/They" not provide us with intelligence? Yet, "He" wishes us to spit on "His" gift and not use it? This asinine comment also means that the hundreds of millions of Buddhists and others who don't believe in the Jewish godman are diabolical and will be severely punished. Those who ascribe to such bigotry are already living in hell. "Have you read the Bible cover to cover?" Actually, I have, and the hypocrite who asks such a question obviously hasn't, because the Bible is full of dreadful stories about genocide, murder, adultery, incest, deceit, greed, arrogance, megalomania, sexual perversion, and all sorts of despicable behavior. On second thought, perhaps the people who ask such a question HAVE read the Bible, as we are sure it creates dementia. "Who made you so angry?" This one is full of implications, and I could answer in a variety of ways. Our favorite is "Who made you so dumb?" But I could focus on the "made" part and say, "Well, God made me, so he must have made me angry." I could also point out that the question itself is extremely angry, and that those who see anger everywhere are themselves seething with anger but are repressing it and are thus not mentally balanced. Human beings SHOULD be angry, because their situation is atrocious. If there were such a god person directing everything, they should be very angry at "him," because this world is a mess and every day abominable things are happening to millions of people. Of course, the standard stupid response to this is that "God gave us free will." (See A Question of Free Will.) "I'll pray for you!" This comment sounds like an alien language to freethinkers. It comes out something like this: "BZZZPPFFFFTTT." When interpreted, it becomes clear that the person who is making such a comment feels quite smug and superior in that he/she has chosen the RIGHT god, compared to whatever it is you do with your consciousness, such that he/she now has a direct pipeline, whereas you do not, and he/she will put in a good word for you, you lowlife scum. Since the concept of "God" is completely arbitrary, we could respond that we will pray to the Cosmic Mickey Mouse that our well-wishers become intelligent. Naturally, we are not talking about loved ones who make this heartfelt prayer comment in times of true trauma. We are addressing the condescending offer presented by missionaries and proselytizing fanatics who have never even met us but who feel they know we are sinners who need prayer to their "Father in heaven." Theirs is a rather unctuous and smarmy mentality. Now, just in case you think I'm being a bit harsh in pronouncing these statements and sentiments psychotic, I offer up the following email - you decide. Do you truly want to live in a world dominated by this kind of mentality? "Alas, your vile vulgarness comes out. It's obvious you and your mind belong to Satan. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. You are a very sad excuse of a human being. You babble about things you know nothing about. The Jews aren't Christ killers. Whoever told you that. Jesus died for all of us, so we all are Christ killers. . . . Whether or not you like it, or admit it, you were created by God, you will be judged by God, and you will be punished by God. You can play all the games you want to until that day of judgment, but it's coming." To these loving, advanced concepts, I respond, "You and your mind obviously belong to Ahriman the Devil! Ahura-Mazda the Almighty will judge and punish you! My Persian boogeyman is bigger than your Judeo-Christian one! You barbarian with a bone in your nose! Ooga-booga!" Then I follow this with much saber-rattling, teeth-baring and chest-beating. All of these comments reflect that the believer is angry, volatile, primitive, arrogant, mentally unbalanced and does not display critical thinking. Let us now spell it out: If you believe there is an invisible giant man of a particular ethnicity in the sky who is directing everything and who is so hateful he will viciously punish us for challenging his existence - If you believe that this invisible giant man got a 13-year-old virgin girl pregnant, who then gave birth to him as his own son -If you believe that this god person wrote a book - and one book only -If you believe that "confessing the Lord" will instantly remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more - If you believe that a stone will remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more - If you believe in vicarious blood-atonement, i.e., that "the Lord died for your sins" and thus you can commit as many as you wish - If you believe that merely believing in such a god person makes you righteous, no matter what atrocities you commit and what hatred and intolerance you carry and spread - If you believe that some "good" god person is going to reward you for killing living, breathing human beings "in his name" - If you believe that going to church, temple, synagogue or mosque, making pilgrimages, or wearing particular clothes or headdresses, makes you a righteous person, even though you don't behave like one otherwise - If you believe that you are special and chosen because of what you believe - If you believe that it is good to mindlessly go along with whatever anyone tells you about the nature of God and religion - If you believe that believing in one God makes you better than and superior to those who don't - You are NOT displaying critical thinking, not using your mind. You are also uneducated as to the world's cultures and history. It is not a sign of great intelligence to blindly believe what someone else has told you is true, especially when such beliefs basically condemn hundreds of millions of other people. Many of these blind believers are simply not very bright, yet they assume that their belief equalizes them with those who are smarter. "Jesus loves you just the way you are!" is the hypocritical hue and cry of those who feel inferior but who will not recognize it and admit it. Yet, according to these same cheerleaders, Jesus DOESN'T love you just the way you are - you must thoroughly change, surrendering your mind and soul to him. A bit of a psychotic extortion racket. The bottom line is that those who dare to question and challenge cherished beliefs which are not rational and reasonable, and who live relatively righteous lives without such irrational and intolerant beliefs, should be recognized as being the epitome of what any god person would wish in "his children." They are utilizing all of the gifts that such a god person would provide, were "he" real. And if they have utilized these "God-given" gifts, they know that the interpretation of "God" is a cultural artifact, not an absolute truth that must be defended and beaten into other people. In using these gifts, they will discover that over the millennia, hundreds of millions of people have held differing opinions as to the Infinite, which is only common sense, since it is, after all, Infinite. Humans need to lighten up! Their gods and religions are dreary, humorless, wrathful, intolerant, oppressive and generally unpleasant. There is no love, no joy, no fun! Humans are under the dominion of ideologies that are slowly but surely killing them. They need to release them and be free! No one is going to punish them for enjoying life, and there is no point to living if they can't enjoy it. No good god person wants to see people stumbling around in dread seriousness, doing cockamamie rituals and constantly beating up themselves and others. Life is a joke. There is no purpose, so everyone is free to create his or her own, making it as amusing, joyous and scrupulous as possible. 1998 Acharya S. Previous: An Atheist Here to Destroy? Next: Heaven's Gate Commentary "To follow Knowledge like a sinking Star,Beyond the utmost bound of human thought......... To Strive,To Seek,To Find and not to Yield." Tennysons' Ulysses Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9407 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Happy New Year Thank you, John K. wishing Joy is unconditional and now that i have chosen to receive as abundantly as i love to give, i accept your sweet wishes, let me send the same wish for Joy to you & yours and to every other family member on tis blessed list. sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-29/9408 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: A Proven Reality JJ "First I might add that a similarity of stories from different cultures add to the validity that something like that did happen, but perhaps not the way we have been presented." Rick Other cultures do, in fact, record the history of the real man, A.K.A. Jesus. In India, there are records of his visit there, when he was in his 20's. He preached against the corrupt priesthood and it's caste system. He was loved by many and is still remembered there, as St. Issa. And then there is the book, "He Walked the Americas", by L. Taylor Hanson, which is a compilation of native legends from the Orient, Pacific, North and South America, detailing the visit of a prophet, exactly matching all descriptions of Jesus, that visited all the peoples of the world during the 50 years following the ministry in the "Holy Land". He was known, to them, by many different names, because he allowed them to name him in there own language, but one tribe in North America called him Chee Zoos. If you want the whole Truth, to anything, sometimes you have to use more than one set of eyes and ears. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com I'm only in it for the thrill Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9409 From: "D.O.O.R" Subject: Re: A Proven Reality My 2-bits on this topic: As we have now just passed another Christmas season, I can't help but ponder the "Myth" of Santa Clause with all its legends, tales, and embelishments in just a few hundred years. Compare that Myth to what today Christians call Christianity. Look what 2000 years has done. Christianity has been one of the Bloodiest belief systems in history, all in the name of a God. Historical veracity seems to be missing as to any "original" writings, including the New Testament books, that is unless of course one only reads the writings of other Christians. All we have is stories of stories, embelished during the period of the ante-Nicene church fathers i.e.; 100-400 ad.--no originals. Where are they? Yet, Christians in general cling to these gene rationalized stories passed down for centuries now, many without even a thought of their origins. I would bet if we knew the truth about much of this, it would put our feeble minds in a state of ecstatic shock as to how we could have been conned so badly. Even the teachings/thoughts expounded on this list would put most ignorant mainstream Christians in a state of furors. It's been my quest in searching for just the "naked truth", then I'll dress it to suit my spirituality, and I allow each to do the same. Lets not be so smug as to believe or entertain the thoughts that the man called Jesus was the first to expound teachings as old as this world is. Are we ignore of the ancient ancients, like Lemuria or Mu and Atlantis. What was ancient Egypt? What was before Egypt? What of the teachings of the ancient school of "On"? Are we not but an extension of the knowledge all of these civilizations they left? Keep a smiling as we grow in discovering......Pablo Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9410 From: Mark D Williams Subject: The Song--Translations Hope everyone is having a happy new y2k. Just wanted to let the keysters know that translations of the Song are on the web at the xoom archives. http://members.xoom.com/keysarchive/ Click on The Song of the 144,000 and then click on your choice of translation. Currently there are Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, Icelandic, Spanish and Swedish versions available. If anyone has any other translations available and would like to share them, please feel free to send them to me at voxdoc@yahoo.com. Thanks. Mark D Williams Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-31/9411 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Translations Thanks Mark, the Tower of Babel is crumbling, brick by brick. Love and Wishes of Joy to all, sharon