1999 - WEEK 50

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9011
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: enough conflict already
Greetings of PEACE to All,
And to you my friend Rick, this list indeed owes a great deal, not only for you starting the list, 
but your wisdom in administering this list. I must say that over time, we begin to see quiet 
strength and wisdom in our fellow list members certainly growing. I say to you Rick, that when the 
chips are down, I would put my money on you!!
And yes, I am glad and so too is my son, that you were who I first met on ICQ and the 
adventures of the WWW!! I remember our sharing, all my greatest fears occurring in my first 
encounter with a stranger on the internet LOL...and yes I must also add Rick, that every great 
being that I have met, I have met in consciousness first... interesting that you, John Kosior and 
Xavier were no exceptions, and your 'ghostly appearance' as you call it, was before I met you 
less than two hours later, they pictured afterwards in consciousness.
Your assistance in any and all matters has always been greatly appreciated. The bumpy 
road of adversity certainly does not allow for the laziness that strikes some great initiates, but 
rather keeps them going and going and going...:)
I'd better stop here Rick or someone is likely to think we are up to something LOL :) I too am 
glad to be here, and so glad you are too.
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9012
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit
Greetings of PEACE to All,
Thank you JJ for these timely reminders.
"Reminder 1: This can only happen to a molecule or group when they are already listening to the 
voice of the soul. If one person is out of alignment the group life cannot receive the fire.
This reminds us that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link, and strengthening and 
upholding that chain is vital.
"Reminder 2: The beginner seems to focus at random and creates a little fire from time to time. 
But slowly over a long period of trial and error the seeker learns to hold the mind steady so the 
light stays in focus at all times.
"Finally at this time the spiritual fire burns consistently, and this is what the higher lives look 
for. When they see your spiritual fire always there, always burning, always neutralizing negativity, 
illusion and high resistance of the lower worlds, then they realize that a new co-worker is in the 
making.
"Holding your mind steady in the light creates a fire that burns a hole in the veil of the temple 
and thus "the veil of the temple was >rent in twain from the top to the bottom" (Matt 27:51) thus 
allowing the disciple to enter into the Holy of Holies or the Kingdom of God.
"Reminder 3: By contrast the Dark Brothers enter the world of lower mind not through the door of 
love but through desire and glamour. Because they are then caught in illusion they use their 
magnifying glass of mind to focus the dark into a black hole of the mind that is so powerful in its 
gravity that no light can manifest.
"'the Dark Brothers enter the world of lower mind not through the door of love but through 
desire and glamour'... we must be ever vigilant to this, and daily test our goals to ensure it is not 
our personality ego that is doing for its kudos and importance in the world, even though perhaps a 
'worthy cause' initially.. for this certainly does open the door to the Dark Brothers. And in a group 
such as this, we are all just as affected by such distraction, as we are in receiving the highest 
energies possible. Being able to deflect this distraction takes attention and discernment and can 
take one off course. DESIRE certainly has its polaric swing with glamour its happy bed partner.
Reminder 4: As you enter the world of oneness in the Spirit it will seem to come and go like the 
wind and when it does sweep over your spirit (like a wave as you aptly express it) you will feel like 
weeping with joy. Now in the normal emotional realm I have to have some overwhelming 
occurrence to cause me to shed tears, but when the higher feelings of the Spirit come and I 
sense the wave I immediately feel the tears of joy coming and I have no desire to hold back as I 
often do in the with regular emotional response."
And there is such a wisdom in keeping 'the focus' on the divine/holy spirit, bypassing the 
emotional responses for the joy it brings and sustains one with. The glamour of the world and 
'personality desires' pale miserably by comparison.
Thank you again JJ for these timely reminderss, that we unite in a greater strength and focus 
on our chosen goal of unity, oneness, and spirit union.
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9013
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit (xavier strikes back lol)
Well, Zia, and Rick, I "still have to understand" why you think that unity and oneness is 
accepting people who try to disrupt the class. If you don't like the word, it is the name I put on :
JJ is deluded, and used by negative entities. If I am mistaken, I will withdraw from the list. My 
intent for being here and posting here is to show the people here that JJ is deluded and when he 
is.
(this is no quote, but a quote would be stronger, and adress the topic of entities, hey, this is 
becoming silly, one of us (me Chris or Rick) is gonna end up sending these emails to the list)
I would like to point out something.
Chris sent me these emails, (and he showed many great human qualities by doing so). What 
I want to point out though, is that these evidences should not be necessary at all : (put full caps 
here)
Because We All Goddam Know That Already, all of us, this is plain for all to see since the 
beginning, ages ago.
Yet...there is fear, there is ego, and don't you think, Rick and Zia, that the biggest trap of the 
ego turns like this : oh I won't get involved.. Oh..I won't take decisions either.. I will stand for 
oneness, that is a goal isn't that? Oh this guy is not disruptive (I can't allow myself to see this, 
because what emotions would come up then?) etc.. ;-))
I've yet to see you and all take stands for what is necessary. Many do, though. I wish for a 
general agreement on this;-) Glenys took stand, Anni, shall I browse the list? Jennifer maybe, 
Margaret (one of the few blessed to be able to overlook their posts). Lorraine in the past, Tracey 
Hobson, and this is from my memory only. John of course, but you wont trust him, because he is 
in front? (ah he doesn't mince words, that's why we love him!!)
I don't want anyone to be kicked out, I "want" Paul and Chris to state their true motives as 
plainly as possible. This is what the list moderator should ask, but it seems our brother has 
lessons to learn, as all of us have. Yes I also have lessons to learn;-)) But are you sure that this 
lesson is not one of intrepidity? ;-))
I'm sure no one wants the list as a group to kick someone out, who are we to do such a 
thing? I'm not asking for a forced humiliating public confession, if this is what it looks like, discard 
it also. Well....what shall we do?
Stating that hidden (but obvious) disruptive agendas are not to be tolerated might be a good 
thing, don't you think?
Telling Chris that IF this is indeed his agenda, would he please do as he said he would do if 
he was mistaken about JJ, withdraw from the list, not because he thinks JJ is not deluded after 
all, but because we think that he Chris is deluded, and this agenda is a nuisance to all. (hmm) I 
don't know folks, I'm just exploring.
I still keep a bit of room for the possibility that you are right and I'm wrong. That is, all this is 
a trap for my ego that don't want to tackle really at the teachings. Would you put Glenys in the 
same pattern, though? ;-))) (sorry for the others, but she is the best and oldest example here;-)
the message title is for sheer fun lol (as I don't hide things, I can take it all lightly;-) )
Would please any people that are convinced that JJ is gravely deluded go take a walk 
outside? ;-) We need fresh air, don't we?
When Zia came on this list, after some time she came to think exactly this : JJ was dark!!!! 
Well, what did she do?? She said it, she didn't say everything that she thought, but she said 
most, and pointed at the rest. Most importantly, she took stand, into the light! And then, she left. 
She didn't have subtle maneuvers, of.. what? I'll let John find the right words here.-) "shit" is much 
too gentle, Rick.
She didn't stay in the hope of showing to all that JJ is wrong and bad through undercover 
techniques.
Don't you see the difference here? People? Rick? Zia??? 
Why are we so blind in not wanting to see the "dark"?
What do you call remaining into a group for the sole purpose of showing that the teacher is 
false, so the purpose of the group is a mistake? And using undercover techniques to get there? 
And trying to convince people off list? And constantly diverting the flow of Spirit that flows from 
JJ's posts, by stupid new agey overteaching, much like Brother Philo's crap teachings?
If the guy said plainly "hey people, I'm here, my name is so and so, and I think that your 
teacher here is a big deluded guy that is leading you to hell". Well, this is lightful, see? The 
guy says what he means, and does what he says. Comprendo?
arrrh ;-)) lol

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9014
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace
Chris writes: " I would ask ... Is the example they have shown here the manner in which they 
propose to bring about World Peace and Goodwill?"
Song title: "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me."
We cannot advocate that another be peaceful until we are peaceful within ourselves.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9015
From: "Anni West"
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
Being peaceful within ourselves means not to be the first aggressor, but it does not mean to 
accept everything from everybody. It is ok, no it is necessary to stand up for what you believe in 
and to fight aggressors back - in my humble opinion (and I am definitely not a violent person - lol). 
Being peaceful all the time to everybody no matter what they do to you is New Age and very 
beastly in my book!
Love to you all
Anni

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9016
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: RE: (OT) World Peace
John Kline writes: "What do you do in a school with this type of student. Allow them to 
disrupt, and ruin the class, or remove them from the class, and place them in another class, for 
children with severe psychological, and behavioral problems."
Oh, John, we are here to study in a spiritual classroom, not a physical classroom. What we 
see here on earth today is what we perceive as being physical or solid. But it is an illusion as 
pointed out very well in JJ's posted book "Molecular Relationship".
The bible clearly states: "Judge not that ye be not judged."
What is "judge" may have a different meaning to others, but avoiding it, to me, is allowing the 
feeling of annoyance to "roll" through me, then remembering that all have the God given right of 
free will to make their own decisions whether right or wrong. All anyone can do is to either help to 
guide another along, or to just set the whole situation aside to solve itself.
When we judge another, we are really judging ourselves, or the aspect of ourselves that we 
see in the one who we have directed the judgment to.
JJ, I am feeling a sudden need of "hurry" here with the teachings. Is there a need to hurry or 
could it be slowed down just a bit for a very short time. I get the feeling that some have reached 
"overload".
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9017
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace CONFLICT!
Xavier writes: "Only, some are warriors, some are not"
Hi Xavier
I just couldn't resist after reading your above words because they brought a wonderful 
memory of what my Dad said to me once and I ended up years pondering.
"Be thou the warrior, but fight not."
I think it's in the bible where the Zealots wanted to fight in battle for Jesus. Jesus was 
against physical battle, but He said, "If they are for us, then they are not against us."
More to ponder.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9018
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: Questions
Zia writes: "Therefore the one that is speaking from 'out of time' into the holographic world (in 
time) comes to teach us to dissolve the beliefs of the holographic world so that we can get 
beyond it. Another analogy is the Holo-deck in Star Trek, and when the program is turned off... 
everything that looked real has disappeared."
Hi Zia, If I understand this correctly, then what we need to do is to believe that even the 
holographic world is real. Even in Star Trek, there was an episode where the one holographic 
character managed to get into the computer to make his world even larger to the point that it 
enveloped a galaxy. Thus Picard, Data and others were trapped in the hologram and had to find 
their way back in a situation similar to "a mirror within a mirror, within a mirror". (chuckle).
Talk about mind expansion.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9019
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: Alice Bailey
Brian Weis wrote: "I love "The Tao of Pooh." But even more so, I have found great truth in 
"The Velveteen Rabbit."
What better way is there to begin the teaching of truth to our children? I 
began the learning through Mother Goose rhymes.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9020
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
Anni West writes: "Being peaceful within ourselves means not to be the first aggressor, but it 
does not mean to accept everything from everybody."
Yes, Anni, I agree. However, it is best to also understand that within all of us, even at the 
same time as peace, there is always that point in which we can chose to turn unpeaceful. If I 
caught someone pointing a gun at my child's head, I would move with the speed of wind and, 
hmmmmm.....well it wouldn't be pretty. The whole point here is that we all have the power to 
choose peace or nonpeace with a conscious mind. We have the power to consciously re-train our 
subconscious unpeacefulness that we all too often would rather not think about. We can choose 
to do this that we may truly live the peace.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9021
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace CONFLICT!
Hi Marylin;-)
You wrote: "Be thou the warrior, but fight not."
Am I really fighting?
The true fight, if there might be one, would be against my fears and doubts about my right to 
stand in the middle and say what has to be said.
In fact, I feel a whole more peaceful when I speak out than when I refrain myself from doing 
it. Keeping feelings for oneself is what makes war within, and true conflict. I don't do this only for 
myself, I do it also because I perceive that others also need it to be said for them. Not everyone is 
John the valourous;-) Seems it is my path also, and it does me much good to "fight".
But don't believe that I am fighting someone, I am only sending destruction at delusions, 
fears, doubts, and general sleepiness.
"I think it's in the bible where the Zealots wanted to fight in battle for Jesus. Jesus was 
against physical battle, but He said, "If they are for us, then they are not against us."
Well THEY are not for us at all, did you not perceive this already? They are full of good 
intentions also, at least it seems to me. Yet their agenda is precisely against the purpose of the 
list. You call this "for us"?
I'm sure the zealots had no agenda to prevent Jesus from teaching. They only wanted him to 
be a warrior for their cause, am I wrong? (who were these "zealots" by the way?)
John and I would be the zealots here, and no, I don't wish for our teacher to "fight" or lead 
my "fighting". In my point of view, he might be standing in the spirit, and let us take our 
responsibilities and make our choices.
"Oh, John, we are here to study in a spiritual classroom, not a physical classroom."
A spiritual classroom is also a physical one. Spirituality is added, but physicality is not 
subtracted to a normal class to get a spiritual one. Matter is not subtracted. Ignoring matter is 
being deluded. Transcending matter (hey I am doing like Paul, teaching ;-)) is revealing the Spirit 
into it. Is incarnating it to the fullest of its possibilities.
"What we see here on earth today is what we perceive as being physical or solid. But it is an 
illusion as pointed out very well in JJ's posted book "Molecular Relationship".
Another cloud eater? ;-) A very peaceful and loving one, but still, deluded IMO. Earth may be 
an illusion, but then we are an illusion for all that concerns us, except a Spirit that has no form, 
nor time, nor space, etc...
"BE in the world, but not of it".
Be in it, okay? Do as if it was no illusion, unless you flee from what this play is built for : 
growth through experience in the world of form. If it is all illusion, why experiencing it? If you don't 
believe in its reality at all, why not let yourself flow and achieve nothing? It don't work that way. 
Achieve all you can, and the fruit might be to see beyond what you have achieved;-)
"The bible clearly states: "Judge not that ye be not judged." What is "judge" may have a 
different meaning to others, but avoiding it, to me, is allowing the feeling of annoyance to "roll" 
through me, then remembering that all have the God given right of free will to make their own 
decisions whether right or wrong. All anyone can do is to either help to guide another along, or to 
just set the whole situation aside to solve itself."
Okay, think about it in times of war;-) Or a burglar into your house;-) BTW, I act very much 
the same, instinctively. But I think this is cowardice. It works though, sometimes. But it's a whole 
lot better to make the fighter incarnate when he is needed. Your idea is very oriental, no-doing. I 
have much of this. I'm here to learn the western way.
"When we judge another, we are really judging ourselves, or the aspect of ourselves that we 
see in the one who we have directed the judgment to."
I am not judging Chris or Paul or Zia, I am learning about their true motives, I am evaluating 
and revealing these motives. When John said "you're full of shit" I believe it was the same thing. 
Considering the undercover techniques used by these birds, this insult is very little and has the 
merit to be clear and open. I wish anyone that keeps things hidden said just a little of it. This is 
where violence really lies.
Quoting JJ, he recently stated about John that he liked it when someone said plainly where 
he stands. IT's a whole lot better than anything remaining covered.
It's better to say shit when you mean it, than ANY lie or concealment.
"We cannot advocate that another be peaceful until we are peaceful within ourselves.
We cannot be peaceful if we refrain "conflict" ;-) What is conflict? Where is it? inside or 
outside? I am much more into conflict when I don't say what I truly mean. I am much more 
peaceful these days than before, because the cards are on the table.
As long as I do what I am drawn to do, everyone can make their choices, I don't mind, I don't 
care about the future, because I am taking care of the present and doing my best. Say what you 
mean! Do what you say! Let "everything" get into the light! Let everyone make their minds, and 
make their choices, and tell us about it!
I am not attached to the group taking one direction or another, I am concerned with each of 
us being the most sincere as possible, and present and "outward".

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9022
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
Marylin wrote: "Annie wrote: "Being peaceful within ourselves means not to be the first 
aggressor, but it does not mean to accept everything from everybody."
"Yes, Anni, I agree. However, it is best too also understand that within all of us, even at the 
same time as peace, there is always that point in which we can chose to turn unpeaceful. If I 
caught someone pointing a gun at my child's head, I would move with the speed of wind and, 
hmmmmm.....well it wouldn't be pretty. The whole point here is that we all have the power to 
choose peace or nonpeace with a conscious mind. We have the power to consciously re-train our 
subconscious unpeacefulness that we all too often would rather not think about. We can choose 
to do this that we may truly live the peace."
I am peaceful inside when I am courageous outside, Marylin;-) I don't wish to hurt anyone. I 
wish people to stop hurting themselves with fears and refraining. I want free expression.
I can't be peaceful if I don't do what I can. Guilt is the same thing. I can't remove guilt if I 
don't do what I can in my life. Guilt comes from that, from refusing sound action. Guilt or denial.
I'm glad you would take action against someone pointing a gun at you;-)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9023
From: Laura
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace (Marylin)
Marylin,
I understand the difference between the spiritual and physical classroom, and yet both can 
be disrupted and are being disrupted on a regular basis by a certain set of would-be students who 
would like to cause trouble. I agree with Anni in that one can only sit back and take so much of 
this s**t before going off on the aggressors.
It is true that one should Judge Not, lest they be Judged themselves, but I have a feeling that 
those on this list (including myself) have no fear of being judged for their words and their actions, 
as they do not feel they have done *anything* but attempt to preserve a modicum of respect for 
JJ's teachings, with others are trying to break down. Judge me, I'll be the first to stand up on the 
inspection block. I may not be perfect, but for God's sakes, I know my heart is pure and all I want 
is for these teaching to come through unblemished - as pure and clean as they were when they 
first reached JJ's mind. Instead they are filtered through interpretive analysis through dark and 
murky minds, poetic 'summaries' that have little if anything to do with the original point and fairy 
dust sugarings that make my teeth ache.
I was greatly enjoying the week or so of peace that the list had after the last conflict was 
'resolved', and now it seems the list has once again been assaulted, taken over by a band of 
spiritual rogues hell-bent on distracting true seekers from their destination.
Well hats off to you (not you, Marylin), you've accomplished it, because here I am, YET 
AGAIN, posting on this silly s**t. Congrats for the distraction.
-Laura

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9024
From: Laura
Subject: VERY OT - (OT) World Peace CONFLICT! (Xavier)
LOL
"Okay, think about it in times of war;-) Or a burglar into your house;-) BTW, I act very much 
the same, instinctively. But I think this is cowardice. It works though, sometimes. But it's a whole 
lot better to make the fighter incarnate when he is needed. Your idea is very oriental, no-doing. I 
have much of this. I'm here to learn the western way."
*tosses Xavier a six-shooter and a box of bullets*
*sets up a barricade behind a turned-over wagon in an Old West town*
 ;) You want the western way? You've got the western way :) Prepare to hold your ground, I 
see quite a fight ahead of us.
-Laura
*winks to John*

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9025
From: Paul Yu
Subject: Re: The Dweller on the Threshold (3)
Zia wrote: "Greetings of PEACE to All, and this continuation (3)...Do we each do the same 
thing then, create our link through to Shamballa, thus dissolving our own negativity, and 
increasing the light of the link overall, and originally established by Jesus?"
Hi Zia,
The reason for advanced aspirants being tardy on the spiritual path is because they failed to 
consciously choose and firmly decide their thought and action when necessary. Which is in fact a 
lack of link with the Shamballa force of will.
This is so because, more often than not, the aspirant hasn't had a firm link with the spiritual 
hierarchy, the center of the force of love and wisdom. Unless the aspirant truly loves the real in 
general and the true human being, in others as well as in themself, in particular they cannot make 
contact with Shamballa. They have, in other words, to be one with the hierarchy before reaching 
Shamballa.
Shamballa represents the will of the Father which Jesus among others both before and after 
him was attempting to do to earn his freedom from separation of duality under the form of death.
Paul Yu
SpiritualityABC
SpiritualityESOTERIC
http://onelist.com

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9026
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: VERY OT - (OT) World Peace CONFLICT! (Xavier)
Could everyone be as courageous as you USers, I never thought I would feel honored and 
enlightened to be invited into a western, but here it is;-)
I believe that incarnation in the US has to be earned through courage to stand for the Rights, 
even unto death.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9027
From: "Terrance R. Brennan"
Subject: OT--Protect Your Medical Privacy
Protect Your Medical Privacy
Kill the Unique Health Identifier
Click here
http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/
to go to the web page of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Then on that 
page scroll down to the link that says: TO SUBMIT COMMENTS, CLICK HERE. Frequently 
Asked Questions
*How is the government threatening medical privacy?
The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is trying to impose a regulation that 
would permit thousands of private organizations and government agencies -- including banks, 
police departments, the FBI, and even the Environmental Protection Agency -- to examine your 
private medical records without your consent.
The HHS is also developing standards for a Unique Health Identifier for every American, 
which will be the key to accessing your personal medical records. The new regulations, which are 
an outgrowth of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, were published in 
the Nov. 3 Federal Register.
*What's the government's excuse for doing this?
The Clinton administration has created several different justifications, including 
"administrative simplification," streamlining the health care billing system, research purposes, and 
law enforcement.
*Doesn't the administration claim that this regulation will actually "protect your medical privacy?"
Yes -- but there's no reason to believe that claim. The regulations clearly give thousands of 
health insurance companies, government bureaucracies, and even police agencies access to this 
information, so it's only a matter of time until it is disseminated more widely. Soon almost anyone 
could be able to find out personal and perhaps embarrassing information about you, such as 
whether you've undergone psychological counseling, treatment for a drug or alcohol problem, or 
even had an abortion.
Considering that the government once promised that your Social Security number would be 
used for "tax purposes only," does anyone really believe that a medical ID number will be used 
for "medical purposes only?"
*What is the "Unique Health Identifier?"
The Unique Health Identifier is a new government number -- like a Social Security Number -- 
that would be permanently attached to your medical records. This number would make your 
health history just as accessible as your credit history is now, thanks to the Social Security 
Number.
*Why is the Libertarian Party fighting this regulation?
Because we believe the government has no business interfering with your medical privacy -- 
period -- much less turning your medical records over to others. We believe every medical 
decision should be between you and your doctor, not you, your doctor, and thousands of 
politicians, bureaucrats, and police agencies.
*When is the regulation scheduled to go into effect?
February, 2000.
*What's the deadline for the public comment period?
January 3, 2000.
*How can I send an e-mail to help stop this regulation?
By going to the web page of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Then 
scroll down to the link that says: TO SUBMIT COMMENTS, CLICK HERE.
*What should I say?
Tell the government that you want this regulation abolished immediately because you simply 
don't trust the government to protect your medical privacy. Add that you want the Unique Health 
Identifier abolished right along with it.
*Is there anything else I can do?
Yes! Invite a friend to come to our site --
http://www.lp.org -- and send their comments, too.
Thank you!
(Copied from http://www.lp.org/lp-med-privacy.html
by trbrennanjr@yahoo.com)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9028
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace CONFLICT!
Xavier writes: "I'm sure the zealots had no agenda to prevent Jesus from teaching. They 
only wanted him to be a warrior for their cause, am I wrong? (who were these "zealots" by the 
way?) John and I would be the zealots here, and no, I don't wish for our teacher to "fight" or lead 
my "fighting". In my point of view, he might be standing in the spirit, and let us take our 
responsibilities and make our choices."
Great, Xavier. You got my point.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9029
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
Xavier writes: "I'm glad you would take action against someone pointing a gun at you;-)"
Hey, I'm only human too.
Love and Light Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9030
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace (Marylin)
Laura writes: "?was greatly enjoying the week or so of peace that the list had after the last 
conflict was 'resolved', and now it seems the list has once again been assaulted, taken over by a 
band of spiritual rogues hell-bent on distracting true seekers from their destination."
"Well hats off to you (not you, Marylin), you've accomplished it, because here I am, YET 
AGAIN, posting on this silly s**t. Congrats for the distraction."
I am truly sorry, Laura, that this has upset you. You see, I spend a great deal of time editing 
archive posts and am constantly 100 emails behind. I try to catch up and now look what 
happened. I will try to be more caring when I post.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9031
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: [Zia] Re: Morning Stars
Chris writes: "?because humans weren't taking any notice of the Love and Light beings .. 
he thought he'd give it a try by kicking us up the bum ... (base chakra) which he saw as closed ..."
Hi Chris This one is just too funny.......Can't you just see that happening. Your description of 
the bum is fantastic. ROFL (tickled my funny bone)
Love and Light Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9032
From: Sharon and Richard
Subject: Fire of the Spirit (Xavier strikes back)
Xavier, i love you! I love your passion and your willingness to speak out and say what you 
mean, no hidden agenda's. That makes my life so much simpler. I agree with everything you say, 
i just rarely say it myself, coming from the South and a long line of people pleasers and only now 
at this late date coming out of it. Usually, i prefer to quietly discard certain posts without reading 
them all the way through, though i do enjoy some of Christopher's, never, however, your's, my 
friend. I know that one day the 'oneness' principle will live in all of us, but it does not at this point 
in time.
I do believe that anything that happens in my life is for me to learn a lesson from, but not to 
just sit back and watch, but, perhaps it happened for me to say NO! i don't wish for you to do that, 
or say that a lot of my lessons seem to be for me to KNOW what i don't want so i can see more 
clearly what i do want, desire, need in my life. You do not stand alone, my dear friend, i stand 
beside you, as do many of us. I, also, understand Rick & Zia's position, i just feel they are 
perhaps further along the path of 'oneness' than i am, and i do long to have their inner peace. I 
have not had the pleasure of physically meeting Rick (but soon, i pray). We have met Zia and she 
is even more impressive 'in the flesh', she is passionate, kind, gentle and generous. I'm becoming 
less ostrich-like every day, and you help me do that, darling Xavier.
love to all, sharon

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9033
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: Fire of the Spirit (Xavier strikes back)
A huge thanks and kisses to you, dear lady;-) Thanks for giving me this positive feedback, I 
knew I was talking for others,-)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-12/9034
From: "susan carter"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit
I just want to acknowledge publicly an answer to a prayer 3 or so weeks ago. I was asking 
for a teacher to be put before me IF it was God's will for me and he/she would teach me things 
that would bring my vibrations higher. Sterling then gave me Book I of the Immortal and I found 
my way to this list (even before Sterling) and the archives and Book II. Thank you JJ for being the 
teacher and accepting the call. I always have a hard time with earthly teachers, fearing leaning on 
the arm of flesh and losing my direct connection to God. These teachings merely point me more 
in that direction. This is difficult after throwing off one authoritarian belief system (LDS) and 
allowing myself to be open to an earthly teacher, but I am having the time of my life. I reward 
myself with so many archived messages when I accomplish some task about the house. I feel like 
I am at a continual feast. My husband, Ren, is enjoying it also as I relate the different things I 
learn. He is not a follower in any stretch of the imagination, but finds your truth resonating with 
his. He is anxious to meet you in person, JJ, perhaps in January? Is that a possibility? I can't 
convey to you the shock that he wants to. This is out of character for him. By the way, Sterling, 
Ren just started drinking coffee last week. :) The idea of the molecular relationship just fascinates 
me as do many other things I read in the archives. There are concepts I have kept close to my 
heart, never discussed, that I find being discussed. The joy is exquisite!! Thank you so much JJ 
and for all those responsible for this list. Susan

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9035
From: Brian Weis
Subject: Re: Fire of the Spirit (Xavier strikes back)
Xavier writes: "A huge thanks and kisses to you, dear lady;-) Thanks for giving me this 
positive feedback, I knew I was talking for others,-)"
Of course, Xavier. One who makes no claim to speak for others is often the voice for many. 
But one who dares to claim he/she speaks for others is usually talking out of his/her a**.
~B.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9036
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: Fire of the Spirit (Xavier strikes back)
hush, we're on list!
Did you know?

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9037
From: "John Wayne Kline"
Subject: (OT) Confessio Frater Fratranatis
I don't tend to repeat myself, and I'm not here. So many New Agers confuse the Spiritual 
Warrior, with the Physical Warrior. Sometimes the Physical Warrior is a necessity also. No one 
loves a Warrior until the enemy is at the door.
I can't recall how many times during my years with the Organized Crime Task Force I saw 
people weeping, crying how could this happen to us. I can easily compare some of them to the 
people on this list, because my real life experiences taught me, in the most horrible terms, what 
happens when people living in a self imposed world of fantasy, and are suddenly confronted with 
reality. Many totally lose their minds, unable to deal with it. They thought they lived in a civilized 
world, wear Rapists, and Murderers, aren't supposed to exist, but what happens when the bubble 
bursts.
My father often told me I was a coward, because I choose not to fight. He was a powerful 
personage in the Labor Unions, under control of the Mob. He was very proud of this fact, and to 
have a son, that had this weirdo spiritual bent was just to much for a man, that was also an 
Atheist, to bare.
For many long years I suffered terrible guilt, and persecution from my family, and then to add 
to my weirdo status, I became a Police Officer, and scratched my way to the top, to the rank of 
Captain, over the Organized Gangs Task Force. Yes my job was to investigate the very men my 
father associated with. Oh my, not only spiritual, but Just. How damned can a Father be.
One day I realized that I was not a physical coward, but I was a Spiritual Coward, because I 
knew the Spirit, yet I fought it, believing much like Zia that I could use my mental powers, and 
White Magic to protect myself, and everyone around me. I was wrong!
The Dark Brothers couldn't control me, so they went after those I loved most. I had trained 
many young men, and in my early thirties, I was considered one of the last of the Dinosaurs. 
Ancient in my own way to the younger Special Agents coming aboard. One of these young men, I 
loved like a brother, I taught him every thing I knew about the Dark Side, and groomed him to be 
my successor, and the person who would far exceed my accomplishments. If they were 
successful in killing me, he would teach others, as I had taught him. I thought I had every base 
covered?
Married at 18, and divorced by 27, I was on a roll. One night a came home, and the wife, and 
children were gone. My dedication to my profession, and a low paying job, was to much for a 
woman that wanted all the good things in life. But then every cloud has a silver lining, except in 
my case. Political Powers were very upset with my snooping into their affairs, and connections 
with Organized Crime, and two days later, I was called in and fired, told I didn't know how to play 
the game.
I was devastated, I just drove, with no destination in mind, and ended up in St.Louis. I saw a 
spooky movie playing, so I went in. After it was over, I just stood outside, staring into space, and 
thinking about ending the suffering. Thank God I have always had a knack of spotting pretty girls. 
One of the last people out on that dark night, was a very attractive red head, and we gave each 
other, the eye, and she continued across the parking lot as I found a place in the shadows. Then I 
saw her shadow, and someone else's as she approached the car, to unlock the door. At first I 
thought it was the shadow of a dog, the way it was hunkered down low, and then I charged. Just 
as he grabbed her, with the knife in his hand, I grabbed him, and the fight was on. After he 
managed to cut my coat open, I had to chase this lunatic a quarter of a mile on foot, until he 
turned on me, at a construction site with his knife. I wanted him alive, so I didn't shot him, but by 
providence there was a three foot two by four laying six inches from my hand, so I cold cocked 
him. St Louis County Authorities had been investigating six rape murders, of young woman, but 
had not released the information that a serial killer was stalking the area, for fear of panic. I had 
nailed him in the act, of his seventh victim. Who was this lady, My Lord, the granddaughter of the 
Local Mafia Boss. What luck I had in those days. He was the arch enemy of my family. What did I 
ever do Lord.
That citizens arrest netted me a job with the Attorney Generals Secret Special Task Force. 
This was a job that only someone suicidal would take, but what the heck, I was, and I needed a 
job. I won't continue, it gets even stranger.
About a year later I met, and lived with a girl for several years that I loved deeply, although 
she had some serious psychological problems, I was blind to them.
Many years later, I was investigating things that went to the top of State Government. Jerry 
Litton had just won the Democratic Primary, and I was elated. Jerry was a breath of fresh air, in 
the Dirty Political arena. He was actually going to change things in Washington. I was on a high, 
at the Democratic Center, waiting for his plane to arrive, so he could give his victory speech. It 
never arrived! The twin engine took of from a private field, with the Pilot, his son, Jerry, his wife, 
and two young daughters. The right engine exploded just as the twin engine left the ground. All 
aboard burned alive. I was immediately recalled to the Attorney Generals Office, under the utmost 
secrecy. I would work on this case for many years to come. The man responsible was executed 
many years later on death row. He was employed by the Attorney who had me fired from my 
previous job. An Attorney very high in state circles, very powerful. He is now doing life, himself.
Then I meet one of my finest teachers in Life. A retired University Professor of Psychology. 
He befriended me because I was studying psychology at the local university. He gave me a part 
time job, OJT, in his Office. In retirement he worked for large corporations, testing there middle 
management to make sure they were in the right positions, so they could be most effective. My 
girlfriend was his patient. Of course he couldn't divulge anything to me.
We became very close friends, and in those days I could didn't need but one hand to count 
them. One day he flagged me down on the street. He wanted me to go get coffee with him. He 
said he had something very important, and powerful to tell me. I was very busy and had an 
important appointment, and told him it would have to wait, until later that evening. He looked 
heartbroken, and said John I don't know how I'm going to tell you this, but I have to tell you. 
Maybe it's better that I have more time to think about it, before I do. He said he was going to the 
Arch Diocese to see his old friend, he needed to talk with him too. I went my way! I just didn't 
have time for my dear friend that day. He would never return. He was murdered on the way back 
to talk with me.
Time passed again, and I knew that my Special Tactics team had been compromised, and 
the other top officials including myself were looking for the leak. I found it one night. It was my 
girlfriend who I adored. My heart was broken, and the Dark Sides source was ended, but to late 
to save my old friend, but they never give up.
A short time later, I called Roger, he was the only man I could trust. I needed a backup I 
could trust, on the mission I was going on. No one could know I was coming, no one, no one 
could be trusted. Roger was behind me, I knew my back was covered when I broke through that 
door, but the bullets that ripped through me came from behind.
No one expected the Old Dinosaur to survive, but by the Grace of God, he did!
He left the Service never to return. He became a recluse, hiding, and studying the Spiritual 
Work, which he had loved all his life. It was all he had left, in life, and yet he felt God had forsaken 
him.
He came to a point where he sounded, and believed much like Paul. He bought his own 
mountain, and he never came down from it, where he lived with the Spirit.
Then the day came when he realized that he was not a physical coward, but he was a 
Spiritual Coward, because he feared losing his personality, who he was. He turned his back 
totally on his family telling them he never knew them, and he walked away, and followed the 
Spirit, and left the dead, to bury the dead. He never really fully closed that chapter in his life, until 
the New Jerusalem Meditation, which brought forth another Revelation.
After thirty years of searching the Baptism of Fire came in 1991, and for the first time in his 
life he saw clearly. God had never forsaken him, he had forsaken himself by his own decisions. 
How many times had the Spirit warned him, and he had not listened. Counseled him to take 
action, but he just set on his mountain, contemplating the Universe.
He began to listen for a change, he didn't argue, he followed the Spirit were ever it led, and 
his life changed dramatically, until the still small voice, became as strong as a Rushing Waterfall. 
The revelations came, and he followed the Spirit without question. Then tests came, but he never 
once stumbled.
He had been so blessed as to have had two Great Spiritual Teachers touch his life, and had 
been assured that a third would manifest in time. When that occurred his true mission in life 
would begin. His education had been thorough, ever so thorough. He just had to be patient and 
wait for the next chapter to unfold.
Then JJ Dewey came, and he recognized the Ancient Flame, and our Lady with child. He 
never looked back, and he never will.
My point is it's easy to live in a fantasy, fairy tale world, what is so difficult is finding your way 
back to the true path in the dark, when you realize how far you have gone astray.
There are those on this list that are ready for higher teachings, and further progress. I will do 
every thing in my power to assist JJ in seeing they get it, one way or the other. They will not be 
robbed of the Spirit, as long as they choose not to be.
There are others I seriously doubt ever will in this lifetime. I have worked personally one, on 
one with many, and will continue to do so, but using another source, and other means.
No one can live your life for you. No one should ever attempt to. Your decisions are your 
decisions to make, even over the advice of Spirit. Never forgot either way you invoke Karma. 
Marilyn made a comment when I mentioned not paying attention in class invokes Karma. Yes 
Marilyn it does. If you weren't paying attention how on earth are you ever going to pass the test, 
when the teacher gives it. It will be given.
In Light, Love, and Power
Your Friend, John

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9038
From: "Terrance R. Brennan"
Subject: OT--Protect Med. Privacy/ READ FIRST
Oops. Sorry for the unsolicited email. This one should have been added to the beginning.
*******************
Did you believe the government when it promised your social security number would be 
used for "tax purposes only"?
If you answered 'yes' then you won't mind having your private medical files designated with a 
'health identifier number,' possibly allowing thousands of private organizations and government 
agencies -- including banks, police departments, the FBI, and even the Environmental Protection 
Agency -- to examine your private medical records without your consent.
If the government promises the health identifier would be used for "medical purposes only," 
then you won't mind:
* that your employer might be able to see if you've had an abortion
* that your bank might be able to see if you've seen a psychiatrist
* or have had drug and alcohol treatment
* or maybe even cosmetic surgery
It won't bother you that almost *anyone* would be able to see your entire medical history 
with a few keystrokes, right?
Because you believe what the government tells you, and the government has never 
lied...right?
Keysters,
It's simple. The days of your medical history being solely between you and your doctor are 
numbered. If you want to help stop this from happening then read my post OT--Protect Your 
Medical Privacy. Lest an ever-growing beast-type authority is your thing....

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9039
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit
J J,
Thanks for talking about the fire of the spirit.
You have addressed the workings of the Spirit in terms that are of an expanded vernacular 
from what I am accustomed, which therefore brought further insight on the subject. You 
addressed what I would call the "revelatory" functions of the Spirit.
Could you also address the baptism of fire that comes to one who comes forth with a broken 
heart and contrite spirit, repenting of his/her sins? Specifically I am talking about that which is 
spoken of in III Nephi 11 and II Nephi 31. It is the spiritual baptism that is just as real as the 
physical baptism. These two are designed to work harmoniously together when the "church" of 
Christ is functioning properly. This baptism of fire renders in a person a new heart. Their natural 
man is purged and replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Their desire to sin is removed. 
This is not the end of the Christian walk but the beginning. Such an one has entered discipleship. 
As they press forward in this path, feasting on the words of Christ, until they are steadfast and 
immovable in it, the Lord God omnipotent seals them his and they have their calling and election 
made sure.
Could you comment on these facets of the doctrine of Christ? Or could you point me to 
where you have commented on them previously? I would be interested to hear how these 
typically Christian teachings are found in other religions of the world and how they are expressed 
among other peoples.
Thanks,
Sterling

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9040
From: Brian Weis
Subject: Re: Fire of the Spirit (Xavier strikes back)
"hush, we're on list!
Did you know?"
Yup. I know. Some things just have to be said out loud.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9041
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit
"I just want to acknowledge publicly an answer to a prayer 3 or so weeks ago. I was asking 
for a teacher to be put before me IF it was God's will for me and he/she would teach me things 
that would bring my vibrations higher(...) . Susan"
wow, warm welcome to you;-) Beautiful energy;-)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9042
From: "* Zia"
Subject: (OT) Teacup
Loving greetings of PEACE to All,
Found this in today's enormous number of emails, and felt such a beauty for all to share....
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA
THE TEACUP
There was a couple who used to go to England to shop in the beautiful stores. They both 
liked antiques and pottery and especially teacups. This was their twenty-fifth wedding 
anniversary. One day in this beautiful shop they saw a beautiful teacup. They said, "May we see 
that? We've never seen one quite so beautiful."
As the lady handed it to them, suddenly the teacup spoke. "You don't understand," it said. "I 
haven't always been a teacup. There was a time when I was red and I was clay. My master took 
me and rolled me and patted me over and over and I yelled out, 'let me alone, but he only smiled, 
'Not yet.'
"Then I was placed on a spinning wheel," the teacup said, "and suddenly I was spun around 
and around and around. Stop it! I'm getting dizzy! I screamed. But the master only nodded and 
said, 'Not yet.'
Then he put me in the oven. I never felt such heat. I wondered why he wanted to burn me, 
and I yelled and knocked at the door. I could see him through the opening and I could read his 
lips as he shook his head, 'Not yet.'
Finally the door opened, he put me on the shelf, and I began to cool. 'There, that's better,' I 
said. And he brushed and painted me all over. The fumes were horrible. I thought I would gag. 
'Stop it, stop it!' I cried. He only nodded, 'Not yet.'
Then suddenly he put me back into the oven, not like the first one. This was twice as hot and 
I knew I would suffocate. I begged. I pleaded. I screamed. I cried. All the time I could see him 
through the opening nodding his head saying, 'Not yet.'
Then I knew there wasn't any hope. I would never make it.. I was ready to give up. But the 
door opened and he took me out and placed me on the shelf. One hour later he handed me a 
mirror and said, 'Look at yourself. And I did. I said, 'That's not me; that couldn't be me. It's 
beautiful. I'm beautiful.'
'I want you to remember, then,' he said, 'I know it hurts to be rolled and patted, but if I had 
left you alone, you'd have dried up. I know it made you dizzy to spin around on the wheel, but if I 
had stopped, you would have crumbled. I knew it hurt and was hot an disagreeable in the oven, 
but if I hadn't put you there, you would have cracked. I know the fumes were bad when I brushed 
and painted you all over, but if I hadn't done that, you never would have hardened; you would not 
have had any color in your life. And if I hadn't put back in that second oven, you wouldn't survive 
for very long because the hardness would not have held.
Now you are a finished product. You are what I had in mind when I first began with you.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9043
From: Glenys Lowery
Subject: The Devil Made Me Do It
As we're not doing a lot at present except arguing about our right to argue, I thought I'd try 
introducing another topic while we await JJ's next life changing teaching.
JJ has spoken about the true meaning of Lucifer. Has anyone got any ideas on the terms 
'satan' and 'the devil'?
Do they exist? Are they the same entities? Are they out to 'get' us?
Love
Glenys
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A rabbit's foot is a poor substitute for horse sense.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9044
From: Laura
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Well I would almost think after about 2 or more millennia of people believing in Satan and the 
Devil as entities, that these entities would have become thoughtforms of one type or another by 
now.
Whether or not they have the power and the purpose that most people attribute to them is 
another matter.
-Laura

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9045
From: Brian weis
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Does the Devil exist? Well, if it doesn't, just who was that hellish house-mate I had from 96 
to 98??
Hee hee hee
~B.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9046
From: "John Wayne Kline"
Subject: RE: The Devil Made Me Do It
Glenys, how about the lower nature in each, and everyone of us? Not to minimize all the 
thought forms being empowered every day out there.
Your Friend, John

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9047
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Glenys Lowery writes: "As we're not doing a lot at present except arguing about our right to 
argue, I thought I'd try introducing another topic while we await JJ's next life changing teaching. 
JJ has spoken about the true meaning of Lucifer. Has anyone got any ideas on the terms 'satan' 
and 'the devil'? Do they exist? Are they the same entities? Are they out to 'get' us?"
Satan means "The Adversary" "devil" is a bogeyman, a theater character.
This is into The Immortal.
I had a quote like this:
apostles to Jesus: "Master, who is the Adversary?"
 --"When a thing is, it is. When a thing is not, is is not. When a thing is not anymore, it is not 
anymore. Believing that one thing is when it is not or is not anymore, there lies the Adversary, for 
Satan is [or comes from] the Lord of the Mind deviated from the divine Law."
This is what JJ would justly call "not understanding something". This is what I found that 
seemed true to me.
I believe that Satan is a spirit that has authority over matter. He kind of represents a property 
of matter. Refusal of evolution, maybe. "Crystalisation".

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9048
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit (1)
Loving Greetings of PEACE to All, again this is too long for one post.
Hats off to Sterling and Paul Yu for continuing to progress with the teachings as the conflict 
swirls amongst the list. And yes I said 'Paul Yu'. I would suggest each one read Paul Yu's current 
post on 'Dweller on the Threshold (3)' and see how much in line with the teachings his post really 
is.
The goal for all of us has been laid out by Jesus 'and Christ'. Let's remember that Christ 
overshadowed, therefore Jesus channeled the Christ... irrespective of whether through mental 
telepathy or any of the other means available through channeling. This does make it a worthy 
goal, and our way through future initiations, and the overcoming of death and all of our goals. 
Understanding it is paramount. Judging it is hypocritical.
Now with that introduction, I will do my utmost, to address the current conflict, although I do 
not feel in any way a part of it. I have just been misperceived. Happens all the time, and will 
continue to do so, even more so as we increase our conscious abilities and unite in Christ.
Hopefully I will be heard, understood, and perceived in the true light of my soul/spirit/God in 
this communication.
Xavier, my beloved friend, I want to bring to mind the facts as I remember them in regard to 
myself. I am more than willing to continue this off-line, where it is truly most appropriate, however 
for the sake of clarity, I will once and for all time, state the facts here.
I came to the list on the request of a very dear friend to check out this list, the information, 
and it was recommended as the best list with the least conflict of all on spirit web. I did not come 
searching for a teacher, and have stated that before. I have found my own teacher within. I ask 
questions to clarify the position of JJ's teachings, or gain confirmation of what I know to be true, 
or see if there is additional information applicable from another's perspective.
At the time, I was extremely new to anything on the Internet and WWW.
If one cares to read the archives, you will see so many posts by myself in response to JJ's 
posts, saying very simply... I disagree, I see it this way... I perceive this differently, as ... and I 
encourage you to check it out. JJ even responded at one point with I was the first female he'd had 
so many disagreements with and yet I could also see the value in his posts, and continued to 
post. I took that as a salute from him. No where does it say that to be on this list... you NEED a 
teacher as part of the joining rules!! What motivates each one of us to be here is most likely 
different, especially initially. Later this could certainly change.
When I chose to leave the list, I sought to make very clear why. Yet it is still forgotten. My 
soul/spirit/God stopped me in a focus from singing the song. For most on the list, this was 
tantamount to blasphemy. I also explained why. Reread to refresh your memories. The effect 
from all including JJ was astonishing. Try paddling up stream once in awhile, it has amazing 
results. Offline I wrote to JJ and finally expressed that I felt he could not hear me. He also stated I 
did not need to sing the song to be on the list, and welcomed me at any time.
The evening of withdrawing completely from the list, I sat down at my computer knowing that 
I would be greeted by some on the list through ICQ. Right on cue, beloved John Kosior and 
Xavier messaged me and we chatted long into the night and morning for Xavier!! I explained my 
issue, and most emphatically on one particular point. I 'judged' JJ in his teaching role for 
'slamming' channeling, both in his book and in his posts on the list. I categorically stated that JJ 
was indeed channeling much of his material, and found the slamming hypocritical. In light of what 
I have written at the beginning of this post... now you understand why Xavier. Much to your credit 
Xavier, you wished to have this exposed on the list, and if what I was saying was true.. then it 
needed to be brought out.
I am the one that said, there was no point. The teachings were valuable, and we all have 
difficulties with the personality. I simply did not wish to remain and validate the hypocrisy I 
perceived, and my beloved friends Xavier and John Kosior understood. At different times I also 
spoke to Rick on the same subject, and was met with the same wall... I must be like Philo in the 
book to be saying these things. I also said we could not even be in the physical body without 
channeling... which really fell on deaf ears at the time.
There may be a war of some sort on the list, or a fight... yet it takes two to tango... I have no 
fight. That is why I can see the magnificent value of JJ's posts, of Christopher Wynter's and Paul 
Yu's posts, and many others on this list. I have simply chosen to see the underlying common 
theme, the goodness in each of these individuals, and to uphold the Christ in each of them, and 
yes allow them their own growth, their own wisdom to be shared with all of us, as I allow it of 
everyone. Please hear me clearly, ACCEPTANCE is another thing. What I choose to accept and 
make a reality in my life, is my choice and my decision, and what anyone of you on this list or in 
the world thinks I may be doing, well you could also be way off track! Come and watch my life, 
and even then you will only see the tip of the iceberg!!
My magnificent American Indian friend taught me, to look at the message, 'not the 
messenger', yet they have a philosophy of 'walking their talk'. Forget the personality is a better 
admonition, and strive to walk one's talk to overcome adversity.
It was you Xavier, who sent me a post from the list, truly desiring for my return. Now I am 
lumped in over and over with those that cause incredible reactions within you. It is okay... I 
understand for I have been a happy observer of you coming out and shining in the light.
What I love the most about the list, is my opportunity to be able to share, and grow myself in 
that sharing. And also watch all my beloved friends on the list grow as well. The spiritual warrior 
to me wields his powerful sword to cut away all that is not truth and in line with truth, the 
magnificent principles given here on the list and naturally in so many other sources as well. We 
will indeed become inundated by them until we get it and start demonstrating it in our lives.
The oneness principle is alive and well, it always will be, because it is a truth, and truth never 
changes. How we react, ignore, even seek to destroy will not affect that truth. I challenge each of 
you to check out the list to see that every time there is a 'profound' message or 'teaching' as 
some would call it... the list goes into conflict. And the conflict is far greater in its clamour to drown 
out the teaching... hence my salute above. Go look, the 'dark brothers' or better our own 'delaying 
tactics' are alive and well and working splendidly on this list. Why blame the dark brothers for 
heaven sakes??
Being able to see the 'pawns' we are instead of the kings we are, is a start in the direction of 
change, and a new determination.
Now, regarding channeling and psychic abilities, I wish to quote from the Course in Miracles:
'Any ability that anyone develops has the potentiality for good. To this there is no exception. 
And the more unusual and unexpected the power, the greater its potential usefulness. Salvation 
has need of all abilities, for what the world would destroy the Holy Spirit would restore. "Psychic" 
abilities have been used to call upon the devil, which merely means to strengthen the ego. Yet 
here is also a great channel of hope and healing in the Holy Spirit's service. Those who have 
developed "psychic" powers have simply let some of the limitations they laid upon their minds be 
lifted. It can be but further limitations they lay upon themselves if they utilize their increased 
freedom for greater imprisonment. The Holy Spirit needs these gifts, and those that offer them to 
Him and Him alone go with Christ's gratitude upon their hearts, and His holy sight not far behind'. 
Thank you Jesus and/or Christ!!
Therefore I would never slam channeling... irrespective of the lessons each of us must go 
through in its use, for ultimately all gifts and their use are for God. We harm ourselves and display 
our own doubts, fears and distrust, and most of all ignorance.
So finally before I briefly answer some of your questions Xavier, you so aptly responded long 
ago it seems, that you would maintain the direction and topics of the teachings, that these 
seemed vital to you. I would admonish us all to check it out with our soul/spirit/God, will this delay 
or enhance my learning and the learning of others. This does not mean to say... do not be true to 
yourself, but rather get very clear what is of personality and what is of Soul/Spirit/God until union 
occurs, and knowing is complete in itself.
Does the personality love the fight... does God? Did Jesus respond or stay silent during his 
great test... and why was he silent... did he not have his focus upon something so much 
grander??? And could he have achieved what he achieved if he took his focus off to deal with 
others' personalities and their love of the fight, or their need for justification? The goal, the ideal, 
the CHRIST must be powerful enough to keep us on target, the spiritual warrior hitting the bull's 
eye... called God!!
Now to briefly address questions:
"Well, Zia, and Rick, I "still have to understand" why you think that unity and oneness is 
accepting people who try to disrupt the class. If you don't like the word, it is the name I put on:"
The misconception here is 'accepting people'... I am not out to change other people through 
my direct control over them or my demands of them, rather simply restating and restating the 
truth of who and what I am, and my love of that truth. This brings 'allowance' through compassion, 
for I was once that and not too long ago either!! Now that may sound condescending to some, yet 
this is applicable to all of us on many different perspectives and concepts. We share our 
knowingness, and allow for others to grow in that strength of knowingness, testing their strength 
and understanding. It has never looked to me like Paul Yu or Christopher Wynter are saying 
anything but what they understand to be true for themselves at this point in time. I look for the 
commonality, and for their gifts they also have to offer us... it is true for all of us. Choose to see 
what you will.
To be continued!!!
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9049
From: Sharon and Richard
Subject: OT Susan
Welcome Susan, it's very wonderful to welcome you to the family.
love to all, sharon

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9050
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit (2)
Loving greetings of PEACE to All,
and to continue.... my response to Xavier's comments:
"JJ is deluded, and used by negative entities. If I am mistaken, I will withdraw from the list. 
My intent for being here and posting here is to show the people here that JJ is deluded and when 
he is."
Show me an undeluded mind... well in oneness delusion is dissolved. Who is holding that 
constantly, are you? We are all in delusion at times, we are all subject to negative entities at 
times.. JJ is not an exception... perhaps our expectation that he SHOULD BE is our challenge... 
and does he not give us the opportunity to observe and discern, as do all on the list??? If this has 
been observed, then splendid... can you also observe it in yourself??? will always be the 
challenge until union.
"Yet...there is fear, there is ego, and don't you think, Rick and Zia, that the biggest trap of the 
ego turns like this : oh I won't get involved.. Oh.. I won't take decisions either.. I will stand for 
oneness, that is a goal isn't that? Oh this guy is not disruptive (I can't allow myself to see this, 
because what emotions would come up then?) etc.. ;-))"
I can only speak for myself here, yet 'retreat' and contemplation has always served me well. 
It allows me to understand, look at the choices available, and in retreat rather than in react mode I 
am better able to observe my own motives, question them, and reach resolution. Since I have no 
desire to attack and potentially destroy, I choose to allow, and speak precisely what is true for 
me. That needs then no attack of another. And thus no attack returns to me. And since I have 
nothing to defend... again the Course in Miracles stands supreme... 'In my 'defenselessness' my 
safety lies.' I have nothing to defend, and thus no fight or war.
I would ask what is the purpose of emotions? And walk down that path of enquiry...
"I've yet to see you and all take stands for what is necessary. Many do, though. I wish for a 
general agreement on this;-) Glenys took stand, Anni, shall I browse the list? Jennifer maybe, 
Margaret (one of the few blessed to be able to overlook their poists). Lorraine in the past, Tracey 
Hobson, and this is from my memory only. John of course, but you wont trust him, because he is 
in front? (ah he doesn't mince words, that's why we love him!!)"
Numbers mean nothing to me as well. What means anything to me is my own discernment, 
my own ability to HEAR that other person, look beneath the surface, hear their heart and soul, not 
speculate through my own emotional garbage...
You know JJ said that fights and wars on this plane would end... and be taken to the mental 
plane... so those that still love the fight and the battle and re-engaging their past emotional 
traumas and beliefs will love those 'that don't mince words', they will still love the attack. Jesus 
stood in the temple and overturned the moneychangers' tables, because of the thieving etc being 
done... everyone uses this to validate reactionary attack. The post on the medical privacy rights, 
well I see that like overturning the tables of the money changers... and this can be done 
powerfully, not in weak reaction, but powerful decision with results.
I appreciated a brief glance at JWK's post, because therein lies the insight to a life full of 
conspiracy, war, fights, kill or be killed, and it provides splendid insight into JWK's past emotional 
traumas and beliefs that can in a moment be re-enacted in the now. Tough load. His choice to 
strive to serve the God within is commendable. The challenge enormous, yet adversity truly is the 
way of the Master.
"I don't want anyone to be kicked out, I "want" Paul and Chris to state their true motives as 
plainly as possible."
Herein lies the key Xavier... you 'want' to know Paul and Chris, their true motives... you do 
not trust them... and lack of trust is sometimes or most usually due to lack of understanding... we 
cannot trust what we do not understand... and this applies all the way to God!! Would you believe 
them becomes the question??? Hence there is such wisdom in saying nothing!
"Stating that hidden (but obvious) disruptive agendas are not to be tolerated might be a good 
thing, don't you think?"
Do I have a hidden disruptive agenda... well if I do it will make me an easy target for the dark 
brothers, the beast, really our own personality desire/glamour agenda!! While I am busy pointing 
the finger at someone else... well at least I don't really have to question myself! It is so obvious in 
another, IS IT?
"Telling Chris that IF this is indeed his agenda, would he please do as he said he would do if 
he was mistaken about JJ, withdraw from the list, not because he thinks JJ is not deluded after 
all, but because we think that he Chris is deluded, and this agenda is a nuisance to all. (hmm) I 
don't know folks, I'm just exploring."
What do you do Xavier, when you see someone under the 'evil influences' of something 
causing supposed delusion?? Do you walk away, do you quietly observe, do you ultimately 
question directly without needing anyone else's backup or agreement... do you drive them out as 
wrong and you as right??? Tough questions... or do you create the desired outcome for yourself 
and your brothers... do you see us all walking in harmony... those that think nothing like ourselves 
included?? Do we allow our opposites, our pasts and our futures, to be all one in one group???
"the message title is for sheer fun lol (as I don't hide things, I can take it all lightly;-) )"
Yes BUT words HAVE POWER... we either make our words powerless, or powerful, and it is 
our individual choice.
"Would please any people that are convinced that JJ is gravely deluded go take a walk 
outside? ;-) We need fresh air, don't we?"
You know this is individual perception, how clear is your perception... emotions do not clear 
the lens, they intensify the veil... look at the foundation of emotions and what sits within them... 
the happiness you feel is after the release of the emotions... yet it is a weak happiness, for one 
must be on guard for retaliation and attack......
"When Zia came on this list, after some time she came to think exactly this: JJ was dark!!!! 
Well, what did she do?? She said it, she didn't say everything that she thought, but she said 
most, and pointed at the rest. Most importantly, she took stand, into the light! And then, she left. 
She didn't have subtle maneuvers, of.. what? I'll let John find the right words here.-) "shit" is much 
too gentle, Rick."
Thank you Xavier for how you see me at times... yet before this list I never used or thought 
in terms of light and dark... in fact I still do not think in those terms... for it is all within me 
anyway... and I make the choice every moment to walk in the light or otherwise. I saw JJ as 
hypocritical, not dark whatever that means.
"She didn't stay in the hope of showing to all that JJ is wrong and bad through undercover 
techniques. Don't you see the difference here? People? Rick? Zia???"
You are right Xavier, and I had no desire to destroy JJ or the list or the teachings and never 
will either.
"Why are we so blind in not wanting to see the "dark"? What do you call remaining into a 
group for the sole purpose of showing that the teacher is false, so the purpose of the group is a 
mistake? And using undercover techniques to get there?"
Since I do not see this in anyone on the list, but rather simply a discernment of momentary 
lapses, possible if not guaranteed at this point in time for all of us! And usually we are as 
individuals the last to SEE WHAT IS GOING ON???
"And trying to convince people off list? And constantly diverting the flow of Spirit that flows 
from JJ's posts, by stupid new agey overteaching, much like Brother Philo's crap teachings? If the 
guy said plainly "hey people, I'm here, my name is so and so, and I think that your teacher here is 
a big deluded guy that is leading you to hell". Well, this is lightful, see? The guy says what he 
means, and does what he says. Comprendo?"
If that were true... what Christopher might have been discerning was the ON times and OFF 
times, as one would with anyone??!! This is visible in all posts... I enjoyed lurking for awhile just 
to observe exactly that!!! Easy to do, and in observe mode, no reaction.
Now not only have I set the record for the most questions in one day, I may have posted the 
longest post on record. I value our friendship Xavier greatly, and have felt the withdrawal of your 
friendship over the last couple of months... I am not the way people want me to be... I do stay true 
to myself and the God within ... that makes me usually uncontrollable, and not very easy to 
manipulate. Yet I still do value our friendship and all of our exchanges.
I have to the best of my ability again stayed true to myself. When we stop hitting our brothers 
on the list, through innuendo or direct confrontation and attack because we don't THINK they 
THINK LIKE OURSELF or DO LIKE OURSELF... we will start to walk that road into love and 
oneness, and receive that great and mighty channelled energy of Christ that will unite us as one!!
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9051
From: Sharon and Richard
Subject: OT Teacup
Thanks Zia, this is lovely, i still have a baking & fumes (hopefully, not too much more than 
that) to go through, so, forward into Forever.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9052
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: Questions
Loving greetings of PEACE to All, and to you Marylin.
Wow, I am just about 'written out' for today.... yet enjoyed your response here, and would 
comment accordingly:
"Zia writes: "Therefore the one that is speaking from 'out of time' into the holographic world 
(in time) comes to teach us to dissolve the beliefs of the holographic world so that we can get 
beyond it. Another analogy is the Holo-deck in Star Trek, and when the program is turned off... 
everything that looked real has disappeared."
"Hi Zia, If I understand this correctly, then what we need to do is to believe that even the 
holographic world is real. Even in Star Trek, there was an episode where the one holographic 
character managed to get into the computer to make his world even larger to the point that it 
enveloped a galaxy. Thus Picard, Data and others were trapped in the hologram and had to find 
their way back in a situation similar to "a mirror within a mirror, within a mirror". (chuckle). Talk 
about mind expansion."
Marylin, 'what we need to do is to believe that even the holographic world is real', hmmm I 
would have thought that the holographic world is not real. Perhaps we are just looking at 
ourselves through a microscope LOL. I just love one of the episodes in Voyager where the 
holographic doctor says, I cannot change my program, I am just a hologram, and I have no 
opinions... for I am only the result of all my programs. For me at the level of the personality 
unaware of its spirit, it is a programmed hologram and abides by the rules of the 3-dimensional 
world... that is the program!!
Yet we are not a program, we are not the body... it is a vehicle to be in this world... it is best 
described to me as an organic computerised diver's suit!!! Making the body's reactions mine.. 
means I am a diver's suit and nothing else???? Monitoring the diving suit is paramount to staying 
alive in this holographic universe, and giving up /transforming the diving suit for perhaps a 'space 
suit' on a higher level sounds like a lot of fun!!!
Also that fabulous episode of 'In a Bottle' where Moriarty took over the ship, and became 
'alive' on the holodeck and supposedly the ship, and Picard gave him 'life' in a bottle (sitting on 
his desk) to live adventures forever... don't drop that bottle!!! And was it entitled a 'Bottle within a 
Bottle'... who's in the bottle??? LOL
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9053
From: "* Zia"
Subject: Re: The Dweller on the Threshold (3)
Loving greetings of Peace to All, and to you Paul, am so delighted to see you posting and 
maintaining track here amidst the flurries. My comments are:
"The reason for advanced aspirants being tardy on the spiritual path is because they failed 
to consciously choose and firmly decide their thought and action when necessary. Which is in fact 
a lack of link with the Shamballa force of will."
So very simply put, when in doubt and unable to consciously choose and firmly decide one's 
thought and action when necessary would indicate very clearly no CHOSEN link to God's Will as 
it were. Perhaps Shamballa means God? Then my will becomes the will of the personality with no 
power or force behind it, unless stolen in a sense from within this level/reality?
Thanks for your comments and a post I see very much in line with the material of the list!! 
Love to you!
In love and laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9054
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: Fw: Boris Bonkers in Beijing: What's Up?
There's some scary saber rattling going on between the two major nuclear powers of the 
world. Yeltsin is cornered and could act rashly. Its time for some serious prayers and soul 
searching to be had or we could see a fulfillment of the Bible Code prophesy for Nuclear war 
beginning December 1999. See
http://www.aristotle.net/~bhuie/code99g.htm
Sterling
http://www.GreaterThings.com/News
new scripture word code studies
Boris Bonkers in Beijing: What's Up?
NewsMax.com
December 10, 1999
Boris Yeltsin flaunts Russia's nuclear arsenal while visiting Communist China's rulers in 
Beijing. What's really going on? The answers range from sobering to downright scary.
The picture being carried out of Beijing by international television coverage shows a 
seemingly out-of-control Russian president.
One moment he is displayed barely being able to stagger, stand or sit.
The next, he is furiously brandishing his nation's still-mighty nuclear weapons at the United 
States.
"Clinton permitted himself to put pressure on Russia," Yeltsin stormed on Thursday.
"He has forgotten Russia has a full arsenal of nuclear weapons. He has forgotten about that. 
Therefore he decided to play with his muscles, as they say."
"From Washington, Clinton tried to one-up him: "I haven't forgotten that. You know, I didn't 
think he'd forgotten America was a great power when he disagreed with what I did in Kosovo."
In a remark that got lost in the crossfire, Prime Minister Vladimir Put in tried to calm the 
rough water of discourse, saying he felt sure neither president wanted to harm ties.
That's on the surface. What's going on beneath is even more disturbing:
Yeltsin is outraged that President Clinton would have the temerity to lecture him, as he 
indeed did this week, about waging war against Islamic rebels in Chechnya.
That's Russia's internal business and none of Clinton's, Yeltsin bristles, and he seems to 
have the military and much of his own people with him on that.
Clinton's admonitions about Chechnya and his own military intervention via NATO in the civil 
war in Yugoslavia are, to Yeltsin, all part of a menacing new United States policy of involvement 
beyond its own traditional spheres of legitimate interest.
Russia's war in Chechnya is drawing increasing criticism in the international community. 
That presents major problems for Yeltsin and he resents it deeply.
Already, the European Union is talking of imposing sanctions on Russia, which needs every 
scrap of trade to keep its foundering economy from sinking.
Resentment about Chechnya is prompting pressure within Congress to cut off U.S. financial 
assistance to Russia, another crusher for Yeltsin.
There are growing concerns among Yeltsin's political opponents that he may have sown the 
dragon's teeth in Chechnya that will produce a monster problem for Russia among the millions of 
resentful Muslims within its borders and in neighboring states.
Agence France Presse reports that a possible presidential candidate challenging the Yeltsin 
faction in next year's election, Konstantin Titov, warned: "Will we not then get from the Chechen 
people a new messiah like Iran once got Ayatollah Khomeini, a spiritual leader in exile." Khomeini 
returned from exile and installed an Islamic republic in that Persian Gulf state.
Against that background, Yeltsin went to Beijing, the one world capital where he knew he 
would find a warm welcome.
Communist China is the only major nation to support Yeltsin's war in Chechnya, and he got it 
again, on the record, as soon as he arrived in Beijing.
China's President Jiang "completely understood and fully supported Russia's actions in 
combating terrorism and extremism in Chechnya," Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said.
With that kind of support, Yeltsin felt free to rattle his nuclear missiles at the U.S., but that 
raised the question of just how battle-ready they are.
Colonel-General Vladimir Yakovlev, who commands Russia's nuclear forces, said his atomic 
weapons are fully Y2K-ready. He "guaranteed " no accidental launches because its command 
system is "impregnable for any kind of intrusion."
But a Russian magazine announced it had purchased top-secret documents that indicate 
just the opposite - a "horrifying" danger that Russia's Strategic Missile Troops will experience a 
millennium computer failure.
The Chinese don't seem to have any doubts about their ability to wage, or withstand, nuclear 
war. They've been on a roll.
In recent weeks, they have staked out two new bases along their coast for enough new-
model missiles to take out Taiwan.
They are building a new type of submarine capable of launching missiles to land in any city 
within the U.S.
China's latest missiles are equipped with warheads and guidance systems based on top-
secret technology stolen from the U.S. - and aimed right back at it.
The Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis says China already has 300 nuclear warheads and 
expects 1,000 to 1,500 by 2025, roughly the number the U.S. and Russia would have.
The Chinese People's Liberation Army boasts its strategic-missiles corps is now able to hit 
targets with 100-percent precision at any time, under all climatic conditions.
This is no accident. Through purchases of the latest high-performance computers from the 
U.S., China is able to guide even its intercontinental ballistic missiles with pinpoint accuracy.
At the same time, China has been perfecting its ability to endure a nuclear attack on its own 
military and civilian targets.
According to the American Foreign Policy Council's China Reform Monitor, the PLA General 
Staff announced major breakthroughs in building elaborate defensive shelters - an underground 
"Great Wall" to enable China to survive a nuclear exchange just as its ancient above-ground 
Great Wall saved it from invading Mongol armies.
There is increasing evidence of joint Chinese-Russian military operations and little doubt 
both countries will use Yeltsin's visit to Beijing to forge even closer military ties.
The upshot of all that is what the world saw on television was far more than an ailing, failing, 
doddering old man venting his spleen.
Those grim developments off camera are the real story behind "Boris Yeltsin Goes to 
Beijing."
They call up somber memories of a time when Communist China and the Soviet Union were 
allied militarily against the Free World, and it had good reason to be scared stiff.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9055
From: "Jina Bostick"
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace
I also learned something when I was younger. "If you can't say anything nice (or in this case, 
constructive), don't say anything at all." If JJ was deluded, as a few seem to feel, then in theory, 
they should just be able to sit back while the rest of us figure it out. Since we haven't, must mean 
something.... wonder what it could be???? :-)
And Bambi (Marilyn), I agree with you on the sudden upsurge of teachings, like JJ's going to 
a fire. I've only been on the list for about a week, and compared to reading the archives, it's like 
we're suddenly getting hit with a lot more teachings than in the past.
Sunshine

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9056
From: "Karen Surface"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit (xavier strikes back lol)
Xavier,
Your warrior is showing.
Remember battle is also about patience, planning, and then making an assertive, 
constructive move at the right time.
Haven't we spent enough lifetimes charging blindly into the fire of the opposition.
Every dog has his day.
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 
Galatians 6:7
LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE, SPREAD THE LOVE AND JOY.
karen

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9057
From: "Karen Surface"
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Once upon a time Satan decided to pay a visit to a small country church, you know just for 
fun. As he entered the front doors of the church reeking of brimstone and sulfar, he announced 
who it was.
The congregation, including the preacher, deacons and elders ran hell-bent for leather to 
escape.
That is, all but one elderly fellow sitting in the front pew. Satan went up to him and asked the 
fellow if he realized who he was?
The old fellow reared back and looked at Satan through his biofocals and replied, I reckon I 
do, I been living with your sister for nigh on to 50 years.
heehee
LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE, SPREAD THE LOVE AND JOY.
karen
"Does the Devil exist? Well, if it doesn't, just who was that hellish house-mate I had from 96 
to 98?? Hee hee hee ~B."

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9058
From: Diane Linen
Subject: Re: (OT) Confessio Frater Fratranatis
WOW! John. WOW! Thanks for sharing this with us.
Diane

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9059
From: Rick Audette
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
I'm glad you would take action against someone pointing a gun at you;-)
I have had guns pointed at me, more than once. In each case, I lovingly talked them out of 
shooting me and they in turn became my friends.
Rick
--
ICQ 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9060
From: "terri"
Subject: Re: (OT) Confessio Frater Fratranatis
I second that....you said you were writing a book? *g*
Terri

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9061
From: Rick Audette
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
If there wasn't a devil, someone would have invented one for us.
Rick

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-13/9062
From: "Anni West"
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Hi Keysters,
I think the Devil might be our own lower desires and wants like John W K suggests, but 
Satan I think is the same as Lucifer.
I would like to share this teaching with you all:
In the beginning was Darkness everywhere. In the Darkness was the Light. In the Light was 
Thought and Will. Thought and Will did not exist in the Darkness. Thought and Will grew closer 
and united after many aeons. God was born, Darkness was conquered but not destroyed. God 
controlled Darkness by his Thought and Will and purified and changed it through himself little by 
little. God created children in his own picture: his oldest children. Later he created more children 
in his own picture: his youngest children.
After some time God wanted to create more children so he prepared a new planet: the earth. 
He asked his children: Will some of you go and live on this new planet to help my new children 
when they are created? His oldest children said yes, but they were too impatient and started 
moving closer to the earth before God's creation was ready. They wanted to create like God and 
started rebelling. God told them: Don't do it but he never forced them.
The oldest children did not stop but continued and in the end they decided to create 
themselves. Since they were not God but made in his picture they did not know how to create 
from the Light, so they decided to create from the Darkness. God said: "Don't do it. Darkness is 
not eternal, and its powers are huge". But they did not listen and went on with their plans: They 
created mankind. They got caught by the darkness they had attracted and became servants of 
the Dark. Their leader was Satan or Lucifer - now a fallen angel. God adopted mankind as his 
own children and decided to help them back home to the light. And that is why we are fighting our 
way back home to an evolution in the light. Because Darkness is not eternal we have to die. 
Darkness is thick around the earth - all life on earth came from it. Satan and Lucifer is the same - 
a brother who fell from Heaven and became a servant of the Darkness.
This is from a Danish intuitive work, which I read 20 years ago. I have wondered about it 
ever since! I never read "A Course in Miracles" (always filtered out any teaching that did not 
include reincarnation - that was one of my truths I measured other teachings by) but maybe this is 
the same "mistake" as mentioned in it? If anybody is able to throw a little light into this teaching, I 
will appreciate it very much.
Love to you all
Anni

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9063
From: "Anni West"
Subject: Re: (OT) Confessio Frater Fratranatis 
Dearest John
Thank you for sharing - you touched my heart and brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for 
being here, for all your work and for all the light you are spreading.
Love to you
Anni

Post No. keys-l: /1999-50/9064
From: Christopher Wynter
Subject: [Annie] A Saami Dreaming ... was ...The Devil made me do it
What you wrote is the Saami myth of creation ...
The Saami's were the northern hemisphere's "aboriginal"
and gradually were forced back above the Arctic circle
by the Roman Church who killed many ...
They still exist in small isolated pockets ...
 particularly in Norway ..
but their culture has been modified by interbreeding
with the Judeo-Christian ...
It is a very ancient blood ..
and the story you wrote is almost identical
 to the "dreaming stories"
of the Australian Aborigine's ....
 who have been dated back about 120,000 years
 at last count ....
and has similarities to many ancient Shamanic rememberings ...
Christopher Wynter
(BTW .. my reference for this comes from a discussion
 between several members of my group ..
 and their remembering ...
 It is also documented ... and if you need,
 I should be able to dig up the references ..)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9065
From: Rick Audette
Subject: CONFLICT, The plot thickens
Well Folks,
Here I am, just starting another post at 2:30 am, on a school night, better keep it short.
From my position, I hear word from both camps, on and off list. Seems this thing wants to 
run it's course, with lessons to be learned. I know the answer, but my lips are sealed. Good guys, 
bad guys, delusions, who's not telling the whole story, you want to know the real truth?
Here's your chance to practice soul contact. 
All I ask is this; regardless of how you do on the test, please stay and grow some more with 
us. I love ALL of you.
Rick
--
ICQ 19753992
visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/
have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com
I'm only in it for the thrill

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9066
From: Christopher Wynter
Subject: True Confessions
A confession is an elicitation of sympathy
 based on need for recognition and acceptance ..
As I have made peace with my father,
 I have no past that rules my every re-action
and no need to be
 anybody's hero
Christopher Wynter 

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9067
From: Glenys Lowery
Subject: Re: True Confessions
If that is a response to John's post, Christopher, it one of the saddest I've seen posted on 
this list. It shows a small and mean heart, not to mention a redefinition of 'confession'.
You need not be concerned - I can't see any danger of anyone on this list regarding you as 
hero.
Glenys

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9068
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: The Fire of the Spirit (xavier strikes back lol)
Karen Surface writes: "Xavier, Your warrior is showing. Remember battle is also about 
patience, planning, and then making an assertive, constructive move at the right time. Haven't we 
spent enough lifetimes charging blindly into the fire of the opposition. Every dog has his day. "Be 
not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 
Galatians 6:7 LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE, SPREAD THE LOVE AND JOY. Karen"
yes Karen, you're right on time. I'm in a peaceful state, I won't move for now. Zia's posts are 
very powerful in delusion. It's not my move to handle them on list. So I'm VERY peaceful, like only 
a warrior can be;-) A satisfied one. Who doesn't fear stopping, and acknowledging it is not his 
move to do now;-)
I received gifts for my involvement in this. for my speaking out. My vibratory level increased, 
and I am digesting it, letting the body get used to it.
I almost sent this on list;-)
yep, and now I send it! :-)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9069
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: Questions
Hi JJ and all
I hear so much about "The Course In Miracles" and "Conversations With God" and it all 
sounds great.
What I am wondering is, has anyone on the list read "The Revelation" by Barbara Marx 
Hubbard? It's been a couple of years since I read my copy, but it was apparently written through 
a type of telepathy. Jesus talking with Barbara. I found the book interesting, inspiring, 
enlightening.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9070
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) World Peace - Marylin
Rick writes: "I have had guns pointed at me, more than once. In each case, I lovingly talked 
them out of shooting me and they in turn became my friends."
Oh boy, Rick, I honestly don't know what I would do. Having one pointed at myself probably 
would not scare me near as much as seeing my child in mortal danger. I am sure you would feel 
the same. And then I would probably put myself between a gun and my child. From there, I would 
follow what my inner self tells. Back then, I called it following my heart. I admit that I probably 
could injure/kill another, the possibility is there...but I don't really know if I would. I thank the 
Father in the song for the protection He gives us from this type of thing. I guess I am beginning to 
ramble while sitting here inwardly wondering "what would I really do?"
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9071
From: JJD 
Subject: Levels of Conflict
My Friends,
My computer crashed yesterday so I am sending this on my old Packard Bell. I have an 
updated Norton utilities arriving tomorrow (actually today since it's past midnight) that I hope will 
fix my hard drive. We have several Macs but only the one that crashed is hooked up to the 
internet.
It is amazing how dependent we are on these machines, but when you think about it our 
bodies are also very advanced machines and we are even more dependent upon them to explore 
this world we are in.
My computer crashing also made me aware of how closely linked to you my friends in this 
group. I felt a sense of loss in thinking that I may have communications cut off for a day or two, 
then I remembered the old Packard Bell was hooked up and my spirit was cheered.
I have pretty much stayed aloof from the recent conflict as no new objections have come up 
for me to answer. I try and copy the Brotherhood in the principle of not repeating myself 
unnecessarily.
I do not seek to dictate to or control one side or the other, but I will make a few comments 
here. 
There are three basic worlds of conflict as we understand the term, and they are the 
physical, emotional or astral, and mental.
Now the physical must be met wit physical, the emotional with emotion and the mental with 
mind.
Take the old arch enemy of mankind, Hitler for example. He created a physical conflict. 
Many tried sending good and bad vibes to him, but nothing worked until the Allies met him with 
physical force and took apart his war machine.
Moving up a step if someone is angry or hurt at you and you return that hurt with logic (mind) 
or physical brutality you are fighting on the wrong plane and the anger and hurt will not be 
resolved.
If we go to the plane of the mind and have an intellectual disagreement with another and that 
person responds by calling you names then he is fighting mind with emotion. The emotion he 
attacks you with by calling you a name does not resolve the conflict. Then too if he resorts to the 
physical and strikes you, your mind is not changed either. The only thing that can resolve the 
conflict is mind meeting mind and if light is given and received peace and unity will be the result.
Conflicts, however, are not always fought on one plane only. Take World War II again. The 
physical conflict was obvious, but on an emotional level propaganda (true and false) was used by 
both sides to deflate the spirits of the enemy. But perhaps the most important conflict was on the 
plane of the mind. The Allies had the philosophy of government of the people by the people and 
for the people (at least in theory) and the Axis had a philosophy that the leaders know best and 
should be followed without question.
Because this prime difference could not be resolved on the plane of the mind it was reduced 
to the emotional level. Finally it was not resolved on the emotional level either so Hitler reduced 
the conflict to the physical level.
Once it was reduced to the physical level then the Allies had to respond accordingly.
Fortunately for this list the conflicts that arise only exist on the emotional and mental levels. 
For one thing we are too far apart to take a swing at each other.
On one side John W, Xavier and Glenys fight mentally end emotionally.
On the other side, we have a variety of approaches - Paul Yu exclusively on the plane of the 
mind. I know he does not see himself as directly involved in any conflict on any level, but I think 
many would agree that he is whether he sees himself that way or not.
His attack is perhaps more isolated in the mind to a greater extent than anyone I have ever 
met. You could call him any name in the book and he would calmly respond like Spock in Star 
Trek.
Now the trouble is that mental conflicts are never resolved with him so the tendency is to go 
to the emotional level and try to get a response. Several have done this and it has not worked for 
Paul gave no emotional response. I picked up an emotional response from him just once since he 
was on the list, but he did not share it with us.
Paul is to be commended for his discipline for keeping his focus on mind, but in not sharing 
himself emotionally I believe he is making as big of a mistake on his end as are those who may 
attack emotionally. Emotion must be met with emotion and since he shows no interest in using 
emotion as a constructive tool the conflict will remain unresolved.
It is interesting that Paul seemed perplexed that his presence here caused conflict, as if he 
could have nothing to do with it.
But I believe he does have much to do with it and here is the reason: If you are on the plane 
of the mind and stimulate emotion, you just can't withdraw and say - "your emotion is entirely your 
doing. I had nothing to do with it; therefore, go look in the mirror and resolve things."
It doesn't work that way. You can start with the plane of the mind and if you can stay there 
well and good, but if the conflict goes down to the emotional level you must go there too.
Does this mean that if the person insults you that you insult him back?
No.
What does it mean then?
The principle of resolving conflict on the emotional level is to take two steps.
(1) Feel the other person's emotion and reflect it back through your own emotions without 
resulting to name calling. Let your feelings honestly vent even if it increases the conflict.
(2) After you have established communication on the emotional level then apply the principle of 
overcoming good with evil. Find a point of agreement no matter how small and guide the conflict 
toward love and friendship.
If the person is honest in heart he will be glad to be so guided, but if he is resolved to be 
right at all costs there is little you can do except set an example that may mean something to him 
later on.
Christopher also has raised some hairs since he has been here. At first he had no emotional 
interaction with us but as time has gone on emotional presence has manifested. This has helped 
him become more real to many of us.
A third person who is a source of conflict here is our good friend Zia. Sometimes she comes 
out and honestly attacks and other times she does it subtly by picking a side and feeding that side 
with energy and support. A little like the U.S. did with the Contras. We were not directly involved 
in the fighting, but we gave them money and support and thus gave power to the side of our 
choosing. It's funny though, I cannot remember her taking my side of any conflict for some time.
Now Zia has created more conflict on this list than she or most list members realize and she 
is also perplexed by this and sees it as the other guy's problem. She seems to see herself as a 
Course in Miracles peace graduate and is also perplexed that anyone could see her as a cause 
or center of any conflict.
The fact is she is also a center of conflict and the reason here is again lack of honest 
emotional communication.
To this I'm sure that Zia would give the astounded reply that she daily communicates with 
love and feeling and empathy and zest. Now no one has to accept what I am saying here, but let 
me throw it out anyway as my humble opinion.
When Zia gets involved in conflict she generally does it from the plane of the mind. Her 
approach is similar to Paul's except Paul really does not allow himself to feel much emotion 
whereas Zia does, but does not communicate much of her real feeling to the list. This keeps all of 
our communications with her on a mental level, but when conflict arises and emotion is created, 
that emotion is not responded to by her. Because she does not respond to emotion with all feeling 
and honesty conflict is perpetuated.
Now keep this fact in mind. In the past six months all the unresolved conflict has centered 
around Paul, Chris and Zia. If these three had not been here this would have been a very 
peaceful list, maybe a little more boring, but peaceful.
Now these three may take issue with me and say that they were not the cause at all. Instead 
they just present superior philosophy that the rest of us cannot deal with. We are the ones in 
conflict because we cannot stand to have someone disagree with us.
Actually, such is not the case. Concerning myself, Rick, Rob, Glenys Xavier and others have 
disagreed with me in the past, but all these issues were resolved.
Why?
First, because it did not matter who was right. All that mattered was the truth.
Secondly, each of these individuals communicate with great honesty on both emotional and 
mental levels..
So what can we do to resolve the conflicts that materialize, since this is an open forum and 
conflict alone is not sufficient to expel anyone?
It will help if we all attempt to communicate honestly on both emotional and mental levels. 
Honest communication is as important as words and feelings.
If the person refuses to go to the level you are on then meet him at his level. This is what I 
have trued to do with Paul for I have realized that emotion would have no effect on him. On the 
other hand I have tested Zia now and again with some feeling hoping to stimulate some in her, for 
I feel that there is a lot below the surface in her that she has not shared with us. In return I have 
received some feeling oriented words, but not what I consider to be real feeling in my direction 
with the exception of one private communication she sent me. Again this is my humble opinion 
and you are free to disagree or even send your wrath in my direction.
I am happy to send Paul, Chris and Zia all the love they are prepared to receive.
I personally love passion in the pursuit of BECOMING. That's one of the reasons I like John 
W. It is true that his words are not diplomatic at times, but all can sense that his passion is as real 
as the Christ in chasing the money lenders out of the temple. I see a lot of passion in many of 
you, but I cite John because his is certainly not under a bushel.
Many seekers believe that passion is a negative thing that must be stamped out, but if 
directed by the soul it can be put to very constructive use.
I'll try and get to more of your questions tomorrow.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9072
From: "Jennifer Hampson"
Subject: Brief messages to a few people
John Wayne, your posts take my breath away, they are so powerful.
D'Artagnan I'm standing with you. (And Karen, don't think that Xavier has not been patient. 
He has showed understanding, tolerance and humility beyond the call of duty over the year I've 
been part of the List.)
Although I love the thought of being protected by some of the Knights in shining armour on 
this List (including you Rick in your role of List Operator - which you do with much skill and 
humour), I want to add that the people worth their salt here are capable of discerning the wheat 
from the chaff. So don't worry so much.
And that goes for you too, Chris - thank you but please don't bother to save me from JJ's 
"delusions". I find your attempts to show us poor, stupid, misguided souls that we are being led 
astray, quite insulting. (Even though I'm sure you mean well.)
Zia, again you surprise me. For one so determined "to stay true to herself", not be controlled 
and "not very easy to manipulate" how can you let another entity, quite possibly less evolved than 
yourself (because if it were highly evolved it would never use you in this way) take you over 
through channeling. I do not regard channeling as a psychic gift. To me it is more indicative of 
weak will and character. And I think over a prolonged period of doing it, it exacerbates this. (Sort 
of like the effect of long-term marijuana abuse!) Let your consciousness be taken over by 
anything for long enough and your own level of consciousness will be reduced, because what you 
don't use, atrophies.
Jennifer

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9073
From: Marylin
Subject: Re: (OT) Teacup
Ohhhhh, Zia
This is so beautiful. And here we are, being turned and fired and getting ready to be painted 
with beautiful colors. Thank you for posting this.
Love, Light, Peace and Harmony
Marylin

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9074
From: Andre
Subject:
You see...
One of the problems with E/mail is that you don t have access to other people eyes, and the 
shinning of their eyes, and the gnostic tenderness of that shine.
Love.
Andre

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9075
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: Levels of Conflict
JJD writes: "My Friends, My computer crashed yesterday so I am sending this on my old 
Packard Bell. I have an updated Norton utilities arriving tomorrow (actually today since it's past 
midnight) that I hope will fix my hard drive. We have several Macs but only the one that crashed 
is hooked up to the internet."
(...)
"I personally love passion in the pursuit of BECOMING. That's one of the reasons I like John 
W. It is true that his words are not diplomatic at times, but all can sense that his passion is as real 
as the Christ in chasing the money lenders out of the temple. I see a lot of passion in many of 
you, but I cite John because his is certainly not under a bushel. Many seekers believe that 
passion is a negative thing that must be stamped out, but if directed by the soul it can be put to 
very constructive use. I'll try and get to more of your questions tomorrow."
For the whole post, Christmas bells showering, like transportation to higher realms. "Oh my 
God!"
JJ took stand! hahaha what a doner.
You can cite John and not me, his ego is much more under control than mine;-) And he is by far 
the most passionate and involved of us all in this conflict. And strong.
hahaha and I said it wasn't MY move... indeed, indeed my old friend.. lol aaah I'm coming of 
laughing...;-)
About love towards the ones we are in conflict with.. I feel more like saying "Get thee behind 
me Satan" like John said. Not that I am sending this to the individuals themselves, but to their 
maneuvers of deception, conscious and unconscious.
Say what you feel, say what you think..
Love can come once the guy has been disarmed, and what remains is the human being. The 
arms being illusion and imposing one's point of view. Sticking to it, and trying to serve the light 
ones sees against the free will of others (like others choosing a teacher and a teaching) (any 
better definition much welcome)
(any bumper sticker saying "I agree with JJ" ?? weeks ago I had wished for one saying "fed 
up with Paul Yu!" lol What is the word for these pinned things on the clothes?)

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9076
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: "I am no devil for there is none"
If those progressing in their spiritual stature are guided by seen and unseen beings from the 
realms of heaven, because of "decision," why should we balk that there would likewise be beings 
from the dark brotherhood, seen and unseen, who encourage us in the opposite direction and 
direct the paths of those mortals who devote themselves to that path.
The Bible and the Book of Mormon and other LDS scripture use the word "Satan" or "the 
devil" to describe the leadership of this dark brotherhood.
To try and pretend they do not exist -- a very popular thing to do in New Age culture -- as a 
way of rebelling against the fanaticism of Christianity is not wise.
In fact the Book of Mormon teaches us that one of Satan's most clever and effective lines is 
"I am no devil, for there is none."
To play into that line is not conducive to overcoming all things.
Sterling

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9077
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: Re: The Devil Made Me Do It
Anni,
The plot you present is close but off in some important regards. The scriptures do not 
support the idea that man created the earth prematurely and came down before God would have 
best designed, hence they are subject to darkness.
Rather, the scriptures teach that all of this was part of God's design to give us a place where 
we might dwell to learn to be like him.
Getting a body is not a bad thing but a glorious thing.
When we finally overcome as Jesus Christ did, then our spirit and our bodies are inseparably 
connected.
"The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fullness 
of joy; and when separated, man cannot receive a fullness of joy. The elements are the 
tabernacle of "God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples." (D&C 93:33-35.)
Sterling

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9078
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: Brief messages to a few people
Jennifer Hampson writes: "(And Karen, don't think that Xavier has not been patient."
She was right, Jen. Yesterday, reading Zia, I felt like writing, though in fact, I should have 
been asleep before, had I followed what is right. I indeed was in a special time where I needed 
patience. I almost wrote back, but there were friends around, and it passed. I was so tired 
anyway;-)
"He has showed understanding, tolerance and humility beyond the call of duty over the year 
I've been part of the List.)"
well well well is it true? ;-))
"Although I love the thought of being protected by some of the Knights in shining armour on 
this List (including you Rick in your role of List Operator - which you do with much skill and 
humour), I want to add that the people worth their salt here are capable of discerning the wheat 
from the chaff. So don't worry so much."
You misunderstood Karen. She is a great warrior, even she much nourished my warrior 
flame. Being very intuitive, and in connection with me (as you have been with me on a healer type 
energy), she supported me, and guided me in just the right direction at just the right time. This is 
friendship beyond evaluation;-) I did not read her post at the time, but I'm sure she sent her 
thoughts at the right time.
BTW, you are very related to Karen indeed, in the way you contact me. Only she brings the 
fire warrior flame, and you bring the healer water. Very deeply and powerfully both of you, let me 
thank you here;-)
(Oh, I do have trouble with your name Jennifer, second language is like that, some names 
are very hard to keep in the memory. So if I am mistaken, if it is not you my healing angel, excuse 
me, and send my respect to the true one;-)
"And that goes for you too, Chris - thank you but please don't bother to save me from JJ's 
"delusions". I find your attempts to show us poor, stupid, misguided souls that we are being led 
astray, quite insulting. (Even though I'm sure you mean well.)"
Oh come on, an emotion? "insulting"? this is not politically correct, dear ;-)))) Here we talk by 
parables, allusions, delusions... nothing direct, dear, we are above this aren't we? Chris and Zia, 
say what you feel, for God's sake! And what you think!
    "Zia, again you surprise me. For one so determined "to stay true to herself", not be controlled 
and "not very easy to manipulate" how can you let another entity, quite possibly less evolved than 
yourself (because if it were highly evolved it would never use you in this way) take you over 
through channeling."
Very perceptive, or maybe it is obvious to a majority of us. I do have the feeling that Zia is 
manipulated/-ing, but more important than that, the illusion she keeps within that she is SO and 
SO (what's your grade Zia? tell me you're a simple aspirant, and we'll be open friends again. Or 
back your claims) is what makes her deceive people around in order to keep that illusion.
Once again, let go of that axe, and I'll look at a human being with love again.
Defenselessness, you quoted, Zia. You know, it's one of the rare times that I chose an ACIM 
page at random, I fell upon that text, and translated a bit of it. What about letting your convictions 
about what you are aside a bit? I'm ready to get down low, when it is the time for it. It doesn't 
mean being unfair. If you present your self to another by saying "hello, me human, nothing more 
than human, just a simple human being" it is much acceptable and lovable. For one thing, I don't 
know your name.
I know I'm right on spot here, and I hope you won't feel hurt and close up like an oyster, all 
the while sending fumes to cover that reality. You called me, in your posts, remember.
And no, I'm not answering directly to you, because the fumes you send are too powerful for 
me to stand.
"I do not regard channeling as a psychic gift. To me it is more indicative of weak will and 
character."
Occultism is the contrary of mediumnity. Occultism is using forces that one does control and 
understand. Mediumnity is being used by forces that one doesn't control.
Adepts (Masters) are ultimate occultists. They don't encourage over-receptivity;-) They are 
Active, divinely active. Receptivity is developed also, but not dominating.
Do you ever read channeled material that has anything to do with the quality of JJ's writings? 
That Zia says that JJ is channeling, shows how little she sees of the truth.
I don't understand. Spiritweb is full of channeled material. What are we talking about here? 
Someone that reads Blavatsky or Bailey, then reads fairy channeling, and prefers the channeling, 
gets what he deserves. I could channel my ass, I mean, if you don't feel the quality of it....I'm 
speechless.
Channeling is empty, in one word.
We have the Christians, the new agers, and the people that have the religion of channeling. 
Let go of that crap. I'm receiving impressions from my guides these days, but I won't lose my 
consciousness into them, and I won't try to think that there is more there than in my Spirit. And I 
won't confuse my Spirit or Soul with a third grade astral entity that would be too happy to use me.
"And I think over a prolonged period of doing it, it exacerbates this."
 Right! As mediumnity weakens the links between Spirit and personnality, making the guy an 
usable form for anything.
"(Sort of like the effect of long-term marijuana abuse!*)"
on the mark again.
"Let your consciousness be taken over by anything for long enough and your own level of 
consciousness will be reduced, because what you don't use, atrophies."
wow, with that, you've got everything you need to get a closer look, Zia. Try boiling inside, 
and if you send fumes, let there be light, really this time.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-15/9079
From: Christopher Wynter
Subject: Confession
Confession originated as a Holy Rite of obligation
within the Church of Rome ...
obligatory in order to participate
in the sacraments of the Church community
i.e. in order to gain approval and acceptance

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9080
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: virtual gathering and literal gathering; communication by the Spirit
Yesterday I had an experience similar to JJ's.
The power was out for several hours here, sometimes for long spells, sometimes for little 
spurts.
Being so close to Y2K, it caused me to reflect on how electricity and computer dependent we 
are in our culture. I would dare say that 95% or more of my present activity is electricity-
dependent, and 75% is computer dependent.
One big thing that hit me during the outage was how much I would miss my Internet friends if 
this was prolonged because of a major Y2K glitch or some king of social disruption. This virtual 
community we have created on the various e-mail groups would virtually cease to exist.
Of all the people I correspond with via e-mail, I probably have only about 2-3% of their 
physical addresses on hard copy records. And most of them are so far away geographically that I 
wouldn't be able to see them anyway if things fell apart in our social structure as they are 
predicted to do at some point.
Prophecy also foretells of pockets of saints gathering for mutual support and defense during 
the tribulations that are to come. I wonder if there will be any overlap of membership in those 
groups with membership of these virtual communities we are creating via the Internet. Perhaps 
this uprooting of relationships will be part of the struggle and part of the birthing of Zion, as more 
than ever we will need to depend upon the Lord and be able to stand on our own with him/her.
Nevertheless, I can't help but hope in my heart that some of my dearest friends from the 
Internet will somehow end up together in the same survival camp so we can make the trek 
together to the New Jerusalem when it comes time to build that city after we have overcome the 
beast on a temporal and spiritual level.
For those who live in the cities and are feeling an urge to move out to the suburbs, Sanpete 
valley is a wonderful place here in Central Utah. There is a strong prophetic destiny for this place. 
Nevertheless, it is not the only place. Perhaps you are foreordained to be among a different group 
of survivors.
But another thought hits me. Though we might become physically removed from one another 
and unable to communicate by conventional means, maybe we can become developed enough in 
the oneness principle that we can communicate by spiritual means. We communicate with God 
through spiritual means, why not with one another? Some people already know how to do this 
and are well developed in the gift. I've experienced it on a very limited basis, but would love to 
have the gift developed.
Anyway, just some forward nostalgic thoughts on the eve of Y2K and other events that will 
eventually bring at least a temporary end to society as we know it today -- all for the sake of 
refining us and preparing us for a better world to come.
Sincerely
Sterling D. Allan

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9081
From: Laura
Subject: OT: Confession
That's wonderful, Chris. I'm glad you shared that.
Really.
What shall we be defining next?

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9082
From: "terri"
Subject: Re: OT Terri
Thanks Sharon,
If I ever get the chance to READ my email, I might actually learn something! From what I get 
from just skimming over everything....this looks to be an interesting list, with little of the same 
conversations as are on the other lists. That's a good thing!!!
Love, Terri
"Welcome Terri, no, darlin', you haven't arrived at a bad time. Just like any other very vocal 
and passionate family, we have our squabble's from time to time, but they don't last long and we 
all calm down and get back to taking care of business. I think you will be very happy that you 
have chosen to join us. This family is wonderful and diverse and true brilliance shines like a 
beacon in the light. Don't let our fussing drive you away, there is much here for you. You write a 
most interesting and informative first post, i'm anxious to read more of your thoughts. Again, 
Welcome to the family, Terri. love to all, Sharon"

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9083
From: Paul Yu
Subject: Re: The Dweller on the Threshold (3)
"So very simply put, when in doubt and unable to consciously choose and firmly decide 
one's thought and action when necessary would indicate very clearly no CHOSEN link to God's 
Will as it were. Perhaps Shamballa means God? Then my will becomes the will of the personality 
with no power or force behind it, unless stolen in a sense from within this level/reality? In love and 
laughter this Christ in Mass, ZIA"
Hi Zia,
Shamballa is the center of planet earth where the will of God is known. No chosen link is 
established unless freely chosen by aligning the small will of the personality with the will of spirit. 
And no one can approach the will of spirit but by the humble love of acceptance of one's lower 
self as one is. All other ways of attempt are no more than means of preparation for this loving 
acceptance of one's self.
All communications and actions are meant to be ways to express love for service as well as 
personal growth so that the will of God may be realized on earth.
Paul Yu
SpiritualityABC
SpiritualityESOTERIC
http://onelist.com

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9084
From: "terri"
Subject: Re: "I am no devil for there is none"
"If those progressing in their spiritual stature are guided by seen and unseen beings from the 
realms of heaven, because of "decision," why should we balk that there would likewise be beings 
from the dark brotherhood, seen and unseen, who encourage us in the opposite direction and 
direct the paths of those mortals who devote themselves to that path."
To me, that's a good time for discernment.
"The Bible and the Book of Mormon and other LDS scripture use the word "Satan" or "the 
devil" to describe the leadership of this dark brotherhood. To try and pretend they do not exist -- a 
very popular thing to do in New Age culture -- as a way of rebelling against the fanaticism of 
Christianity is not wise."
But, dwelling on them, is not. ---at least as far as I go....When there is negative coming my 
way, or coming FROM me, then I see it as other THAN God,....which would be ego.....that would 
be my interpretation of it. Not scary,...just not conducive to what I'm trying to do. Why put a label 
of any kind on it? Sure, it exists, as long as it is fed the energy needed to survive---in the end, do 
we not all become one with God?
"In fact the Book of Mormon teaches us that one of Satan's most clever and effective lines is 
"I am no devil, for there is none." To play into that line is not conducive to overcoming all things. 
Sterling"
The Bible, and the Mormon teachings are just not something I've read. I don't discount the 
knowledge within them, but I'm closer to going back further than that, and seeing what THEIR 
ancestors taught. And, theirs, before them. I'm not sure if your saying that those who are 
Lightworkers, or otherwise called New Agers are practicing satanism because "most" of us don't 
believe in an actual being other than the daily ego problems we all face. I can truly become 
devilish (g), and stay that way as long as someone gives me reason, or for as long as I want. I 
just don't see what your saying, I guess,......
Love and Light,
Terri

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9085
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: Re: The Dweller on the Threshold (3)
Paul said, "And no one can approach the will of spirit but by the humble love of acceptance 
of one's lower self as one is."
Sterling replies:
It seems to me that the whole essence of "decision" is the ability to chose a better path than 
one is currently on if one so chooses. As for me, I am wanting to seek a higher path and to direct 
others to do so as well. Hence the name of my web site: "Greater Things." To accept the status 
quo and acquiesce with the way things are is to remain stagnant and be damned in ones 
progression.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9086
From: "Sterling D. Allan"
Subject: Re: "I am no devil for there is none"
You are right, Terri, about the importance of not dwelling on evil and Satan and thus giving 
them energy. At the same time, it is empowering, not disabling, to understand the nature of your 
enemy. Saying the enemy does not exist when it does is to open oneself up to vulnerability of the 
enemy's objectives.
I will say frankly that one of the fallacies of the New Age movement in general is a 
discounting of a "personage" who epitomizes evil called Satan, whose objective is the temporal 
and spiritual destruction of man. Just as there is a God both as a guiding being with his/her 
quorum of assistants who oversee the promulgation of good, so is there an evil being with his 
quorum of assistants who oversee the promulgation of evil. And just as there is God in each of 
us, so is their evil in each of us. Why should that be so difficult to believe?
There are indeed many beautiful teachings that the right-brain-dominant New Age culture 
brings forth to society, but there are also fallacies in their approach. One of those fallacies is the 
discounting of the presence of Satan and his demonic hosts.
Why is this important to understand?
For one, when you are receiving "information" through the veil from the regions of things 
spiritual, "Where is this coming from?" is a very legitimate question.
Because New Agers generally don't believe in Satan, they don't worry about where things 
are coming from and hence are susceptible to deceptions at his hand, thinking they are getting 
light from God.
That is why the principle of "decision" or agency is so beautiful. It lays at our own feet the 
responsibility for which voice we will choose to follow. We can either chose light or we can 
choose darkness. Gratefully, during those seasons that we might choose darkness and reap the 
consequences, we can always change our ways eventually to choose light.
In the end, I believe each individual will get it right and choose the fullness, graduating to 
godhood.
Sterling

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9087
From: "Xavier Dolleans"
Subject: Re: Re: "I am no devil for there is none"
Hi Sterling and Terri.
Sterling, I'm not aware that the new age movement refuses to see that the dark lodge exists. 
I was formed by new age culture, and I came very quickly to learn about the reality of demons, 
and later black magicians.
I am aware that some people in the NA prefer not to see this. And yes, I agree with you that 
this may have much to do with channeling. When one is channeling a not so high entity, or even a 
really low one but well disguised, the messages have a full motive not to talk about powers of the 
dark side.
Maybe I am not a typical new ager, but my main sources are Blavatsky and Bailey. Indeed, I 
wish that the NA people understood and applied the knowledge that lies therein.
You may be very new to their teachings, and in case you assume that they don't talk about 
the satanic legions and such, be informed that IMO nowhere in regular teachings, whether it be 
NA or religious, is there a more powerful knowledge to defeat or face these realities.

Post No. keys-l: /1999-12-14/9088
From: Travis Tabbal
Subject: Re: Levels of Conflict
JJD wrote: "?private communication she sent me. Again this is my humble opinion and you 
are free to disagree or even send your wrath in my direction."
*laugh* <humor>
Do I get to be the first to send wrath? ;) I'm a bit miffed that I was not listed as a cause of 
conflict. ;) Seems like Xavier was too. Hey X, let's start a fight! ;) </humor>
 <serious> Great post JJ, you have much better words then I do to describe stuff. </serious>
HTML style tags added for the humor impaired.
"I am happy to send Paul, Chris and Zia all the love they are prepared to receive."
I'll drink to that! Of course, all I have is water