1999 - WEEK 47 Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8578 From: Karountzos Subject: Christ & Jesus on Vacation JJ, so when the two entities (Melchizedek & Joshua) were outside the body of Jesus where did they go? What did they do? Did they take a break by celebrating or were they working on another plan? Why did it take 3 days for the resurrection to take place? When life after 3 days was brought back into the body, did Jesus (body) teleport himself outside of the tomb like John described in the Immortal Book? Finally, what is the significance of the resurrection? Why did this miracle have to be done? What does this resurrection really mean? Your answers has brought much comfort and understanding. Thank you. Peter. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8579 From: Xavier Subject: OT Re: OT Re: Associate Teachers Paul Yu wrote: "This is your interpretation of who is and who isn't allowed to join this list?" I didn't mention that point. Everyone is allowed to join this list. Yet some regulation must happen inside the list, by regulation I mean that the Off Topic mustn't prevent the On Topic to happen. JJ and Rick choose not to impose anything, particularly in terms of who joins or gets out. This is a courageous choice, that implies that the group itself, each of the people involved, must reach harmony. About "interpretation", you interpreted what I said. I said "this list is a class, not an open forum" you said "This is your interpretation of who is and who isn't allowed to join this list" A class may be open to anyone, yet it has a particular purpose, well defined, and a defined teacher as well. The people in here are here (or are supposed to be here) to follow the course proposed by the teacher. All this is clearly outlined in the presentation of the list at spiritweb. I myself, have trouble to be a student. I recognize JJ as a teacher, no problem, but I keep straying away from the job of the student, it is a responsibility, that encompasses a necessity of action, not only listening and understanding with the mind. So in this meaning, we are more than a class, we are not only here to listen and learn, but also to work and realize a work in common. In fact, stretching away farther again, the class here has as main objective to form, or help getting formed, *disciples*. The meaning of this is so broad and important. IT is the realization of a lifetime, and yet not, it is only getting able and working, operative as a human being. Useful and acting, serving. JJ is very clear on that point. Most people have to wade through much ego first, before being able to really decide to serve. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8580 From: J J Dewey Subject: Sending Good Will I feel at this time that Paul has had enough words of correction from the group and I think we should hold back, extend the hand of friendship to him and see if positive results occur. He certainly has a different thought process than me and some others in the group; nevertheless, he may in some cases give us a perspective that will make us think in unusual directions. In the past I have given his comments enough attention to distract from the course of study we are on. I will try and do my part here and comment more sparingly on his posts. In the meantime Paul has indicated that he will comment on other subjects than oneness. Even so, Rick is in charge of the list and I respect his earned authority. Speaking of oneness, we will be covering this idea some time in the future in reasonable detail when the time is right. I appreciate the compliments I have been getting lately and John W., I'm overwhelmed by your words and hope I can live up to your high expectations. The impression most people get when they meet me is that I am pretty much a regular guy and that is fine with me. We are so far behind on our questions and answers I have lost track of some your comments. We'll try and catch up here and continue on course. The question: The question to consider is what can a nation and its people do to befriend the people of a potentially dangerous nation such as Russia or China? How can we make friends with the people themselves and eventually generate a feeling among the general populace that war with us should not happen because we are friends? Is the Internet likely to play an important role? How? I remember that we received some, but not a lot of response on this. One huge mistake we have made with Russia is that we have given large sums of money to its bureaucracy and much of this went to corrupt politicians and worked its way to the Mafia and criminal element there. As it is, the common people are not very friendly toward the United States and other nations who have tried to help because they have seen no benefit. What we have to remember is that the greatest power in any nation is its people. Therefore any aid given to Russia or any other nation should be directed to the people rather than leaders which may be greedy and corrupt. What we should have done with aid money in Russia and many other countries is make direct loans to the people. Have small to moderate sized businesspeople submit business plans and make loans to the best of them. When we just give the money to bureaucrats it is never seen again and does very little good. But when we make loans directly to the people the money is used much more wisely for the good of the country and if only half of them pay the loans back then the foreign aid winds up costing us only half as much for over twice the good with the bonus of creating much greater goodwill among the people. Another thing the people of the nations can do is to make a point when they travel abroad to go out of their way to be extra friendly and leave the foreign country having made a friend or two. It is true that we tend to get aggravated at leaders of various nations, but the common people who are the tourists may actually create as much or more friction and aggravation. Concerning my own country I realize that many other nations, even our allies, have a bad taste in their mouth from our tourists. Many foreigners think American tourists are loud, demanding and obnoxious. What may seem kind of normal here (and other countries) may not seem so acceptable abroad. Therefore, when we travel abroad we must pay attention to the temperament of the country and adjust to the best of our ability. If they feel it is rude to not eat their food then eat their food if at all possible. Even in England, which has the same language as the United States one must be careful. Picking up a baby here and calling him a "cute little bugger" is a sign of affection, but in the UK it is the same as calling him a "cute little bastard." If the American says "please pass the napkins" in England at the dinner table it is the same there as saying please pass the Kotex (feminine hygiene napkins). A new way of establishing good relations among the nations has now opened up and this is, of course, the internet. The problem right now is that only a handful of citizens in totalitarian regimes are on the net, but as the Internet becomes more and more indispensable the numbers of common people on line will only increase. As their numbers do increase people of good will should seek to make individual and collective contact with these people and correct misconceptions and let them know that we the people only have the best wishes at heart for them. Forums and mailing lists can be started crossing language borders. This is becoming easier daily as language translation programs become more accurate. In fact I saw that Adrian was using one with Xavier. For those of you who have experience with these translation programs - I would like to hear how well they work. I understand you can use them to read Chinese and Russian newspapers etc. Another question I would like to throw out is this: I would like to know if anyone on the list knows how many people in Russia and mainline China are online. Even a rough estimate would be helpful. I think I've had several people from Russia download the book but no one from mainline China hat I know of. I believe an opportunity is coming to reach out to these people. To be continued... PS: Has anyone noticed that Dick Morris has started an organization very close to what I wrote about Molecular Politics. He takes polls on the Internet and sends the results to politicians in the hope of influencing them toward the will of the people. It's not exactly what I had in mind, but it is a step in the right direction. Maybe he got a hold of some of my writings. You can find his web page at www.vote.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8581 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Snow Angels Samu wrote: "However, right now this dude will light up a vanilla candle and watch a movie about Roswell that they are showing on Finnish tv. Cheers my friends, have a great rest of the weekend!" Hey, Hey, Hey, another ufo buff, Yaaaaaaaaay! I was 8 or 9 when I saw three on Christmas Eve. Beautiful site. If there isn't any life out there in the universe, then I quote, "it's an awful waste of space". Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8582 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Acceptance Paul Yu wrote: "Reversal is the movement of Tao. Weakness is the means used by Tao." Hi Paul Thank you for your beautiful compliment and your mind expanding post. However, I am not all that familiar with Tao. I know what Tai Chi is but I thought Tao was a man connected with Vietnam. LOL Guess my memories are not quite correct in that area. Is Tao a religious or spiritual way? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8583 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Feelings JJ writes: "Say a couple cuss words, kick a trash can... run out in to an open field screaming. Let it all hang out and see how it feels.. You just might discover that there is wholeness (holiness) in allowing for the full depression of who you are in the moment - and you can believe in the oneness of all things." It is alright just to imagine doing this? heh heh Can't you just see a little old lady running in the weed field across the way, 'cussing, kicking a trash can ahead of her and screaming,' down here in the "bible belt"? There's a place up in Macon for people who "have flipped their wigs". Laughing my head off Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8584 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Sending Good Will JJ asked: "Another question I would like to throw out is this: I would like to know if anyone on the list knows how many people in Russia and mainline China are online. Even a rough estimate would be helpful." I found this info at: http://internet.about.com/business/internet/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.euromktg.com/ globstats/index.html Number of Russians online 1.4 million (tot.pop 170 million) Number of Chinese online 9.9 million (tot.pop. 885 million) Peace and networks of light, Samu :) Samu Karlsson eMail: samu3@dlc.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine...but you already know this, don't you? Tm viesti on lhetetty Saunalahden Serverin Webmailista osoitteesta: www.saunalahti.fi Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8585 From: Laura Subject: OT Re: Associate Teachers Paul Yu wrote: "This is your interpretation of who is and who isn't allowed to join this list" Actually, Paul, it seems to be the interpretation of the majority of the *vocal* members of the list. I will not and can not speak for the scores of lurkers watching this conversation, but for those I've read and those that I've spoken to privately, we seem to be in a general agreement that the purpose of this list is to learn from JJ and discuss and process the new teachings he's given. Anyone - even you, Paul - is allowed to join the list. I find it commendable that the moderator(s) of the list have opened their arms so wide as to allow anyone to join and participate, no matter what their views are or what their effect to the list may be. I could never do it. You know personally how I feel about such subversive undermining tactics as what have occurred on this list. Intentional or unintentional, it carries the same ugly effect. Point is, this isn't a newsgroup, and if it was a newsgroup I would certainly consider many posts in the past few months to be spam. And, in my opinion, spam should be squelched. LOL. I'll tell ya, I am one of the most easy-going laid back people many of you will ever meet. I take things in stride, with a grain of salt, etc. and rarely react negatively to things, but damn it, when I do you'll know it. I try to be tolerant, I try to be understanding, but there comes a time when you've got to stand up and say 'enough'. I think that may be the case for many people here, Paul. We're saying 'enough'. I don't know if anyone is saying 'CONFORM' or 'LEAVE' to you, but we are saying 'enough'. -Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8586 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Acceptance Marylin wrote: "However, I am not all that familiar with Tao. I know what Tai Chi is but I thought Tao was a man connected with Vietnam." Hi Marylin, Tao is not a religious way. It is used as a spiritual way. Tao is the source and bottom line of all things. As quoted above from the Tao Te Ching Tao is the nameless out-going flow as one (1) which returns as two (2) in very much the same way as breathing out and in. This oneness-duality is completed by the third (3), the activity of manifestation, from which all things spring. The secret of the return or reversal lies in the weakness or humility of beings carried by Tao on its return to NOTHINGNESS. Weakness or humility on the part of the individual being is the truth of being limited and thus receptive to all happenings. This is the true meaning of acceptance as a gesture of love. So love and humility are inseparable from each other. There is no true humility without love and there is no true love without humility. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8587 From: "Yvonne Pisz" Subject: Re: Sending Good Will Hi Folks, Ok. I've watched and I've read. I've pondered and examined, all of the events and effects of conflicts between family members, and from those who would be wolves dressed in cashmere. And yet I've not found word or thought which is complete enough to address the fullness of these circumstances. And then it dawned on me. The realization of why I have set aside the initiative to post here during this time. And that reason is that those who would cause dissention among the "children" of this list do not speak the same language as what I might have used. Folks, the Christ gave us one clue about who his true disciples were and are. He simply said, they would know you by the works that you do. Ooooooops! No no. That wasn't it. It was, they will know you are mine when you've seen New Jerusalem. Oh no! THAT's not it either. Let's see. What was it that He said? Oh yeah. It was, they will know you are my disciples by your LOVE of each other. Yes. That's it. And yes, folks, Love has a language. And it has attributes. Many of those attributes seem to have been forgotten, if not subverted by some on this list who have coronated themselves as rulers and judges. So, in order that we may establish, or should I say, RE establish the Love which once permeated the members of this family, I want to remind all of one very rich statement on the attributes of Love, and allow each who care to read a chance to see for themselves and in themselves, whether or not they can themselves and their own words within the parameters of these: 1 Cor 13:1-13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NKJ) Jesus once asked the Pharisees of his time, Why do my words seem strange to you? It was because they did NOT speak the same language as He. I will make this statement as to who is my mother, brother and sister, (MY family), they are those who do the will of the Father. (see above) All blessings to my family. May it ever increase in size. With Love, John K Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8588 From: Brian Weis Subject: OT - TAO The Tao that can be explained is not the true Tao. heh heh ~B. "Remember, amateurs built the ark ---- professionals built the Titanic." "Tao is not a religious way. It is used as a spiritual way. Tao is the source and bottom line of all things." Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8589 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT Re: OT Re: Associate Teachers Xavier wrote: "A class may be open to anyone, yet it has a particular purpose, well defined, and a defined teacher as well. The people in here are here (or are supposed to be here) to follow the course proposed by the teacher. All this is clearly outlined in the presentation of the list at spiritweb." I seldom introduced new topics to the discussion. Usually I picked what was being presented or discussed and shared my views. You might not like my views but that was not off topic. Besides, no one warned me at the beginning that I was not allowed to voice different opinions as that would be considered as breaking the rule here and thus should stop. My understanding is Spiritweb provides both mailing lists and classes as separate categories. I have never been aware that among the mailing lists there is such a thing as strict classes as defined by Spiritweb. If I knew that this list were being operated as one of the classes of Spiritweb I would not have joined in the first place. On this point I am still unclear about the guidelines of Spiritweb. As far as rules and regulations are concerned I am completely confused as to what it means to be disruptive to this list. I know that discussion however heated as long as it did not get personal cannot be construed as disruptive unless discussion were ruled out entirely. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8590 From: Susi Subject: Re: Sending Good Will John K, I miss your posts and your wisdom! Is it three months now that you have been fairly quiet or is it longer? My interpretation of your absence of posting (presence) is that you are a stabilizer, a crucial ingredient to the foundation of this list and Lord/Source know what else. I'm missing you a lot and I don't even know you.....or do I? Well anyway; you take care of you and be well my friend. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8591 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Sending Good Will All of your suggestions are good, JJ, i agree that anything we can do, person to person and people to people, will bring about a great deal of better understanding and positive energy From personal experience I know how wise it is to learn even a little bit about the country you are visiting. Mexico City was very understanding when i told a restaurant I was 'in heat' while trying to comment on the heat in M. C. however, I am faced with a big challenge, i don't trust Dick Morris or anyone else deeply involved in American politics (actually any country's political biggie's) From what i have personally seen from the politics in Texas, and now here in Washington state and, of course, our federal government. In Texas we had close family friends who eldest daughter married a man whose family pretty much owned Houston & surrounding areas where they owned most of the judges which enabled them to take care of their "family" and the political figure here in Washington state sued the people when we voted to hold them to term limits. So. please any suggestions on trusting anyone in any position of authority will be most greatly appreciated. Sorry this posting is such a downer. I am working on this lack of trust. Happy Thanksgiving & love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8592 From: Susi Subject: Re: Sending Good Will "Another question I would like to throw out is this: I would like to know if anyone on the list knows how many people in Russia and mainline China are online. Even a rough estimate would be helpful. I think I've had several people from Russia download the book but no one from mainline China that I know of. I believe an opportunity is coming to reach out to these people." (Susi) http://www.euromktg.com/globstats/ This has a table type chart that tells the global statistics. It gives %'age of world population online, GNP, projected internet usage....each country individually, language, and so on and so forth. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8593 From: "Adrian" Subject: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 000!!! ( apologies to Xavier!!! ) JJ and all:-) Here is a copy of a translation of the Song of the 144 000 that i just ran through a French translation program and back -- it will give you a good idea of what standard is available --- ( I can see Xavier cringing already:)) ) The Song of 144,000 We thank you Father this who revealed you to us your protective universal light; this in this light is complete protection of all destructive strengths; that the Saint Mind of Your Presence filters us in this light, and where that we the light descend. *** We thank you Father this who fills us you with your protective fires of love; this in this love is complete protection of all destructive reflections and sensations; that the conscience of Christ is raised in us in this love, and where that we like it to be[ [enflamed]]. *** We thank you Father this who is You in us and is us in You; this through us Your will be a messenger forward on wing of Being able to; that Your Goal is accomplished on world as he is in sky; this through us Your Light and Love and Power are manifest to all the Sons and Girls of human species. And here is what it came up with in French............ La Chanson du 144.000 Nous merci P_re ce qui vous avez r_v_l_ _ nous votre lumi_re protectrice universelle; cette dans cette lumi_re est protection compl_te de toutes forces destructrices; que le Saint-Esprit de Votre Pr_sence nous filtre dans cette lumi_re, et o que nous la lumi_re descendre. *** Nous merci P_re ce qui vous remplissez nous avec vos feux protecteurs d'amour; cette dans cet amour est protection compl_te de toutes pens_es destructrices et sensations; que la conscience du Christ est soulev_e dans nous dans cet amour, et o que nous l'aime _tre [enflamed]. *** Nous merci P_re ce qui Vous _tes dans nous et nous sont dans Vous; ce _ travers nous Votre sera envoy_ en avant sur ailes de Pouvoir; que Votre But est accompli sur monde comme il est dans ciel; ce _ travers nous Votre Lumi_re et Amour et Pouvoir est manifeste _ tous les Fils et Filles d'esp_ce humaine. ps- takes about 15 seconds to translate the above.... Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8594 From: "Adrian" Subject: Re Sending Good Will Greetings JJ and all:-) Mmmm whilst i would agree with 'most' of your comments JJ -- i would point out that i would consider your err American definition of a napkin to be the same as an English one:-) have never thought of a napkin as a kotex!! Re your comments on tourism -- i would agree with your comments. I spent about four months working in Hungary in 1996 -- and the impression i got was that the locals looked upon me pretty much as i would have of a stereotype impression of an American coming into my work place in the UK --- i.e an 'I know more than you' attitude!! ( apologies to all of you on the other side of the pond!!! :-) ) --- it took me some time to get past this -- and like you indicated the main thing i found was that if one went in with an open mind - you came away with far more than you went in with -- i.e i felt a sense of guilt that these people had given me an insight into my own nature that i felt i was not able to reciprocate I particularly appreciated the Hungarians love of the simple pleasures in life --- for example they still greatly value their 'quality' time -- and seem to make far more use of it than we do in the UK or i suspect you folks do in the US.. One obvious example was the weekends -- and these started about mid afternoon on a Friday -- and ended about mid morning on a Monday!! -- were almost entirely devoted to family and friends - most of the shops closed and people just enjoyed them selves in the local parks etc.... Whilst i would agree we can also do this -- it is as though some thing as been lost when so many places are open 24 hours a day.... I myself have worked continuous weekends and night shifts for the past eighteen years now --- and my 'feeling' of a weekend finally disappeared about 10 years ago!! -- that 'special' feeling of a weekend is now just a distant memory to me -- a loss -- i never would have thought i would have felt -- but once it is gone and all the associated activities and feelings - it is probably gone for good... I remember i colleague of mine trying to tell some local Hungarians who ran a kind of sandwich bar that they were doing it all wrong!! -- because they chose to make each sandwich to order -- rather than to mass produce pre-packaged ones!! My 'impression' is that the French life style also reflects a more leisurely attitude to life than here in the UK or US --- particularly in the south -- I am sure my friend Xavier could comment more on this:-) Err re the translation program you mentioned JJ -- i actually came across that a bit by accident a few weeks ago -- in fact it came about in a way from one of your mails in which you mentioned student exchanges. A friend of mine mentioned that she had a French student coming to stay on an exchange visit -- so i offered to show them around -- unfortunately i don't speak French!! -- but a another friend of mine does - so i e-mailed her and asked if she would come along and help out in the interpretation department -- she replied to my request in French!! -- trying to be funny -- i think!! -- so i asked Xavier to translate for me -- which he did a wonderful job of:-) --- and things just went on from there -- another friend of mine passed on a translation program to me -- this in fact came free with a magazine -- and whilst i am sure Xavier would be the first to comment that the translation leaves a bit to de desired -- it really does give one the gist of what is being said --- The free program that i have, translates to and from French / German / Italian and Spanish --- I have copied sections from French newspapers and one can at least understand the context of what is being said -- I have no doubt that in the next year or so there will be far greater improvements shown in this field. The above program also translates into 'speech' -- which i have found a benefit from that i didn't expect.. This is that i find if i get the program to read back some of the e-mails from the keysters list --- in english--- I find i retain more of what is being said -- than if i had just read the e- mail.... this may not apply to everyone - but you may like to bear it in mind... Regards to you all:-) adrian ps: If any of you ever consider a visit to Hungary / Budapest -- i would 'highly' recommend it. I am told it is a bit like Paris was in the 1920's -- and it is easy to believe. The steam rooms and swimming baths at the Gelert Hotel are famous though out the country -- and well worth a visit. In fact part of the film Evita was filmed in the hotel whils't i was there --- i must admit i opted for the bar rather than choosing to get a glimpse of Maddonna!!! Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8595 From: Laura Subject: Sending Good Will "The impression most people get when they meet me is that I am pretty much a regular guy and that is fine with me." *chuckles at this one* Well, there are very few people on this earth right now that aren't just 'regular' people, JJ. I don't know if anyone here expects you to turn water into wine ;) "The question: "The question to consider is what can a nation and its people do to befriend the people of a potentially dangerous nation such as Russia or China? How can we make friends with the people themselves and eventually generate a feeling among the general populace that war with us should not happen because we are friends?" You know, I just remembered the Sister City program in Cincinnati. I think it's a nationwide program, but basically a city or town from one country pairs up with a city or town from another country. They exchange cultural information and what not and occasionally send reps back and forth, the 'regular' folk of the towns, to get to know each other. An exchange program, if you will. "Is the Internet likely to play an important role? How?" This question I really think is an obvious but qualifiable Yes. Of course the internet is going to play a role in helping promote free speech and such through the borders of other countries where government rule is supreme. It's easier to sneak in information electronically IF and only IF they have access to the internet. "What we have to remember is that the greatest power in any nation is its people. Therefore any aid given to Russia or any other nation should be directed to the people rather than leaders which may be greedy and corrupt." Amen to that. "Another thing the people of the nations can do is to make a point when they travel abroad to go out of their way to be extra friendly and leave the foreign country having made a friend or two. It is true that we tend to get aggravated at leaders of various nations, but the common people who are the tourists may actually create as much or more friction and aggravation." Oh, I know this one. LOL.. language (both verbal and non verbal) barriers can be a problem with tourists. I remember one incident where I was traveling with a high school choir in Pairs and we went to a local cathedral to perform. After the performance, many of my choir mates went to the gift shop (don't even START me with the Merchants in the temple thing) to purchase some souvenirs, and one guy in our party told the lady taking care of him that he wanted two of something and proceeded to hold up his first & middle fingers with the rest of his hand closed to signify the number "2" (common in America). Well, Xavier might be able to verify this, but apparently that particular gesture is an obscenity and the poor old woman turned absolutely white until one of our smarter choirmates elbowed him and told him to close his hand and apologize. LOL :) "Concerning my own country I realize that many other nations, even our allies, have a bad taste in their mouth from our tourists. Many foreigners think American tourists are loud, demanding and obnoxious. What may seem kind of normal here (and other countries) may not seem so acceptable abroad." *chuckles* That's because we *are* generally loud, demanding and obnoxious. LOL :) "Forums and mailing lists can be started crossing language borders. This is becoming easier daily as language translation programs become more accurate. In fact I saw that Adrian was using one with Xavier." I don't know, JJ. These translation programs can prove to be quite painful and ineffective. I would instead urge those willing to be peace ambassadors to pick a language and learn it. I have a basic knowledge of Spanish that I'm going to enhance in the next 5 months and will also (hopefully) be picking up Finnish. If anyone is interested, I can get you the information to a very inexpensive language program that you install on your PC. There are over 30 languages available for purchase through this company, and it's conversational (not formal) language. "Another question I would like to throw out is this: I would like to know if anyone on the list knows how many people in Russia and mainline China are online. Even a rough estimate would be helpful. I think I've had several people from Russia download the book but no one from mainline China that I know of. I believe an opportunity is coming to reach out to these people." I'm still thinking that human translation is the best way to go here, JJ. Perhaps if the book is sent out in electronic or hard copy form to translators across the country, we'll find some people who are so moved by the experience, they'd be willing to donate their professional services in translation. *grinz* Stranger things HAVE happened. -Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8596 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Xaxier & Adrian "Hopefully, everyone knows i'm joking. love to all, Sharon" This goes for me too. It's bad enough I am at a standstill in our family history research because my eighth great grandparents decided to disappear after the Revolutionary War back in the early 1860's (I think). Their name (which was changed) was Genson of French origination and I only know how to say yes in French. LOL Xavier, are you able to give the correct spelling of that name? Sorry, I didn't intend to turn this post into an O.T. Hanging my head Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8597 From: Xavier Subject: OT (lol) Re: OT Re: OT Re: Associate Teachers I'm going on this topic, because apart from all the fears, aggression, or illusions of separations and the like, we are defining notions, as each of us see them, through this "conflict". I'm gonna try to define what is disruptive in my opinion, but this is my opinion, I don't know how much of an agreement there is on it. "I seldom introduced new topics to the discussion. Usually I picked what was being presented or discussed and shared my views. You might not like my views but that was not off topic. Besides, no one warned me at the beginning that I was not allowed to voice different opinions as that would be considered as breaking the rule here and thus should stop." Here I disagree with you, or more justly, I see things differently. For the simple reason that there is a precise objective on the list, and a defined teacher, picking a topic and stating your views about it may very well be disruptive. (this word is harsh, but "let's call a cat a cat", as Voltaire once said lol) Why is it disruptive? Let's take the picture of a class somewhere in an university. The door to the class is open to anyone, but there is a defined topic and a defined teacher. The people there are here to learn from the teacher, and basically things happen like this. The teacher introduces his teachings, they are "discussed", meaning that people talk about them in order to understand them, then there is a minute or two of chatter, and the teacher goes on expanding his teaching. Here is how I see it. You are allowed, of course, to express different opinions. BUT if your differences of opinion reach as far as denying or not understanding the teaching of the class, then it *is* bothersome. IF you express your opinions with the objective of expanding them, learning to see beyond them, then you are indeed into a class, and learning from it. A student has to know what he thinks, and not be afraid to affirm what he believes. BUT if your objective is to enlighten the people around you, and the teacher also, you are not using the class as a class, well yes, but as a class where you are the teacher. The biggest trouble with this is that the students of the class you are in don't appoint you as a teacher. They are, at first sight, not interested in what you have to teach. Share yes, teach no. Once you shared your view, and you did it Paul, we all know by now what you think generally about oneness, once you shared it, you shouldn't insist in stating it over and over, and more than that, in showing disagreement (which I and others only see as lack of understanding) to the teaching of JJ. I guess, as you have mentioned, that there is much in what JJ tells that you agree with, and that you appreciate to be enlightened on many points. This is the part I would want to hear about. What do you learn, what do you understand, in one word, what do you *receive*. Your posts always make me feel that you don't want to receive, but need to always emit in answer. Getting back a little, let's imagine that you or I or anyone is into a class, and thinks he sees a light that the teacher and the group don't see. The best thing to do is to say it, I agree. And I admit that I wish I had had your attitude and behavior when I was in this situation. Say it, claim it for all to hear and judge by themselves. Without fear of the group or anything. Bravo, sincerely. But here is what is happening here, as I see it. You have stated your views. Many like them, yet many are fed up with hearing them. To many, they see that you systematically oppose what JJ is saying, and doing this, you only bring the same ideas (with expansions, true) that we already heard, and chose to discard as "error". So the reaction I have is "oh, another post of Paul Yu" I read a little and then "here he comes again, with his usual "there is more to it than you think there is, there is oneness beyond the dualites you express, white is not white, it is grey"" and so on. If you from time to time sent a big post stating your alternative view of things, I would look at it as an outsider that respects the structure of the class. But it would mean that you would assume that you dont agree with the teaching here on some key points that don't allow you to behave as a student. And it would mean that you are conscious that too many posts on that alternative view of yours are disruptive to a class that is aimed at the view which you disagree with. "My understanding is Spiritweb provides both mailing lists and classes as separate categories. I have never been aware that among the mailing lists there is such a thing as strict classes as defined by Spiritweb. If I knew that this list were being operated as one of the classes of Spiritweb I would not have joined in the first place. On this point I am still unclear about the guidelines of Spiritweb." "As far as rules and regulations are concerned I am completely confused as to what it means to be disruptive to this list. I know that discussion however heated as long as it did not get personal cannot be construed as disruptive unless discussion were ruled out entirely." I hope I managed to define how a certain amount of discussion is not disruptive but is necessary. The key point is that you are not discussing in order to expand your point of view (it seems). Your point of view is different from the one of JJ, on key points. JJ's perception of things, we generally agreed to follow it and learn from it. This point I am making doesn't mean "submit or get out". It means, if you disagree on very important things, don't say it repeatedly, we heard it already, and it only deviates our attention from the teaching we are here to listen to. And listen to the comments please, we are your audience, on a stage you might be covered with tomatoes, but here you use (not voluntarily I'm sure) the patience and reluctance of most people to say "enough, we don't want to hear this again". PS And if I'm lacking of Love on this, sorry, sorry and sorry;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8598 From: Xavier Subject: Re: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 000!!! ( apologies to Xavier!!! ) (NO!) Adrian wrote: "JJ and all:-) Here is a copy of a translation of the Song of the 144 000 that i just ran through a French translation program and back -- it will give you a good idea of what standard is available --- ( I can see Xavier cringing already:)) )" Thanks to make me cringe, Adrian. I actually have a translation of the song into french, it lacks refining so I am delaying its posting, but now that you aggressed me deeply for thousands of french generations, I am forced by honor to post it right away ;-) This translation was done by a friend of mine who read the book. I am "correcting it" a little. I thought it would be better to send it to Rick or the guys that manage the project of translations, but posting it here allows for comments and corrections of anyone (ehhh sorry, of any french-speaking one lol) The Song of the 144,000 We thank you Father that you have revealed to us your protective universal light; that within this light is complete protection from all destructive forces; that the Holy Spirit of Your Presence permeates us in this light, and wherever we will the light to descend. *** We thank you Father that you fill us with your protective fires of Love; that within this love is complete protection from all destructive thoughts and feelings; that the consciousness of Christ is lifted up in us in this love, and wherever we will the love to be enflamed. *** We thank you Father that you are in us and we are in you; that through us Your Will is sent forth on wings of power; that Your Purpose is accomplished on earth as it is in heaven; that through us Your Light and Love and Power is manifest to all the Sons and Daughters of Mankind. *** Nous te remercions P_re de nous avoir r_v_l_ ta lumi_re protectrice universelle ; que dans cette lumi_re r_side une protection compl_te contre toutes les forces destructrices ; que l'Esprit Saint de Ta Pr_sence p_n_tre en nous dans cette lumi_re, et partout o nous voulons que la lumi_re descende. *** Nous te remercions P_re de nous emplir de tes feux d'Amour protecteurs; que dans cet amour r_side une protection compl_te contre toutes les pens_es et _motions destructrices ; que la conscience du Christ est _lev_e en nous dans cet amour, et partout o nous voulons que l'amour soit enflamm_. *** Nous te remercions P_re d'_tre en nous et nous sommes en toi ; qu'_ travers nous Ta Volont_ soit envoy_e sur des ailes de pouvoir ; que Ton Dessein soit accompli sur terre comme il l'est au ciel ; qu'_ travers nous Ta Lumi_re et Amour et Pouvoir est manifest_e _ tous les Fils et Filles de l'Humanit_. There is much to polish again in that translation but I think it can be used already as it is. Adrian wrote: "ps- takes about 15 seconds to translate the above...." Family wars began with less than this, and are still lasting after many generations lol. ROTFL. Anyone that wants to know the french spirit, have a look at the comic (these stories with drawings in frames) named "Asterix". Gauleses put up a fight with anyone they meet, but only to discover their true friends beyond that test. Thanks again, Adrian;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8599 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 Xavier writes: "Adrian wrote: "ps- takes about 15 seconds to translate the above...." "Family wars began with less than this, and are still lasting after many generations lol. ROTFL." Hehehehee, Xavier you just kill me!!! Yep, on the floor, but nowhere dead! :D :D "Anyone that wants to know the French spirit, have a look at the comic (these stories with drawings in frames) named "Asterix". Gauleses put up a fight with anyone they meet, but only to discover their true friends beyond that test." I love Asterix!! Xavier did you see the new movie with Gerard Depardieu? Haven't seen it myself yet, but would love to hear comments on it :) Btw, translating is an interesting thing, something I noticed as I translated The Song into Finnish. I'm so used to reading English that I usually never think of what words mean in Finnish, I just sort of feel their meaning inside of me. Still, especially since Finnish is such a versatile language full of small colorful nuances, and I like to use every verbal color available to get the vibe exactly right, it can be a real challenge to find the exact right words and expressions that carry the same core meaning when you convert a text from one linguistic territory to another. It's a great challenge, and I like it :) Mistletoes, menhirs and magic potions Samu chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8600 From: Jean Subject: Re: a question for J.J Dear J.J., I need something clarified that I read in the past in the bible. When Jesus was in the Garden and he looked upon a "vision" of Moses and Elijah looking down on him, were they the "Jesus" incarnate of that time? I need this clarified to understand. That was one thing that always puzzled me. Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-22/8601 From: "Caramel" Subject: Re: Sending Good Will Ya see Paul. Deep down inside, JJ understands you. He even compared you with one of my favorite people: Mahatma Gandhi. A man whom loved Peace and strived for it. BTW I had a dream with him July 16th of this year. I'll keep the dream to myself, but I can just say I felt so good and I felt so happy to see him in it that I didn't want to wake up. He was an admirable man. "JJ: The reason I ask is that my way of doing things seems so foreign to your way that that you're a little like Gandhi trying out for the first string in a pro football team. ... Yikes! What am I doing on posting mode? Back to lurker mode and planning on singing the song before I snooze off to Zzzzz. BTW, let's all do so. Disconnecting. It's late on this side of the globe. Hugs to you Paul and to all..Peace. Caramel P.D. Dino and Peter: Great questions. :-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-20/8602 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 000!!! ( I put The French translation of the song, as sent by Xavier into the translator at http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate and got the following, which was a lot closer than the one Adrian sent. In English: We thank you P_re for having revealed your universal protective light to us; that in this light lies a complete protection against all the destroying forces; that the Holy Spirit of Your Presence penetrates in us in this light, and everywhere where we let us want that the light goes down. *** We thank you P_re for filling up us your protective fires of Love; that in this love resides a complete protection against all the thoughts and destroying emotions; that the conscience of Christ is high in us in this love, and everywhere where we let us want that the love is ignited. *** We thank you P_re for being in we and we are in you; that through us Your Will is sent on wings of being able; that Your Intention is accomplished on ground as it it is with the sky; that through us Your Light and Love and Capacity are expressed with all Wire and Girls of Humanity. I tried sons and daughters, English to French and also got fils et filles, but it then translates back to wires and girls. The problem is with the translator. I'll save this latest translation for future use and it is also now a part of the archives. Merci, mon frere Xavier. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8603 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 000!!! ( That is excellent Rick but I'm going to have to rely on the English one as presented by JJ. This is the best translation, however. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-21/8604 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Acceptance "Tao is the nameless out-going flow as one (1) which returns as two (2) in very much the same way as breathing out and in. This oneness-duality is completed by the third (3), the activity of manifestation, from which all things spring.' The secret of the return or reversal lies in the weakness or humility of beings carried by Tao on its return to NOTHINGNESS." The part from the Tao Te Ching rings true, but then you have added the return to NOTHING part, whereas the Tao Te Ching stresses a return to oneness. Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings were corrupted within a few hundred years after he was gone, to aim more at seeking Nirvana. Buddha himself did not direct men to Nirvana. The Mahayana school of Buddhism, started circa 100 b.c., brought things more to fullness with the introduction of the ideas of the Bodhisattva, one who shuns nirvana in favor of returning to liberate the rest of humanity. THE SUPREME MYSTERY Whoever wishes to quickly rescue himself and another should practice the supreme mystery.- the exchanging of himself and the other. Because of an excessive attachment to "self," even the slightest fear causes fear. Who would not hate that "self," who, like an enemy, is a carrier of fear; who, desiring a defense against sickness, hunger, thirst, and the like, destroys birds, fish, animals, and stands as their antagonist; who, for the sake of profit and honor would kill even his parents; who would steal even the Three Jewels, the inheritance which he has received? ... What wise man would desire that "self"? Who would protect it? Who would worship it? Who would not regard it as an enemy? Who would honor it? All of those who are in a condition of unhappiness in the world are that way because of desiring their own release. All of those who are in a condition of happiness in the world are that way from seeking the release of another. Whatever calamities there are, and whatever sorrows and fears come to the world, they are all the result of attachment to self." Why is that attachment mine? Not having extinguished "self," one is not able to extinguish sorrow; just as one who has not extinguished a fire is not able to extinguish the burning. It follows that for the sake of tranquilizing my own sorrow, and for the tranquilizing of the other's sorrow, I give myself to others and I accept others like myself. Shantideva It seems to me that the above Mahayana text goes a long way towards explaining why many list members find fault with Paul's writings. We are seeking unity with each other and the Father, whereas Paul seems to direct us to seeking nirvana for ourselves and don't worry about everybody else. Whether that is his intent or the result of incomplete understanding or communication, I do not know, but that is how I read it. I hope this sheds some light, that we might all find ourselves reading from the same page. An interesting side note: Tao is pronounced "dow" One. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post no. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8605 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Re: Acceptance Rick, Well Thought, Well Said, Well Done! On every point! So corrupted down through time, yet some have the clarity to see through the illusion. In who's best interest was that illusion? If it wasn't mankind's whose was it? Below you will find the True Teachings of the White Lodge. Error is just a Shadow of Truth. Truth is the Absence of Error! Those that have eye's will see, those that do not, will not! There is no remedy. How can you teach the blind to see? So is the Way of the D'ow oOh! Your Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8606 From: Xavier Subject: Re: Automated translation of the Song of the 144 000!!! ( Rick Audette writes: "I'll save this latest translation for future use and it is also now a part of the archives. Merci, mon frere Xavier." Thanks to you, but the translator is Benoit Monge;-) And there are many things to refine in it, plus a big mistake in the end. In fact, this work would mean many messages of dialogue with an english speaking one. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8607 From: "Terrance R. Brennan" Subject: OT: Sending Good Will Hi, This is to Paul. I'd like to echo what JJ wrote here. "He certainly has a different thought process than me and some others in the group; nevertheless, he may in some cases give us a perspective that will make us think in unusual directions." Indeed. If I ever need to exercise my open-mindedness I know all I have to do is read some of your posts, Paul. Rob Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8608 From: J J Dewey Subject: Catching Up Part II The Group was asked: Pick the category that is closest to your line of thought and tell us why you think your choice will work. I know that some will believe that they are in a third category, but I suspect this third category will really be closely linked to one of the above two. So please do not claim you are in a third category unless you can clearly define it. (1) Our only responsibility will be to have peace within ourselves and extend peace and love to our neighbors. If everyone does this then there will automatically materialize peace on the earth. By using the inner powers alone we can change the outward reality without real work and action on the physical plane. Thus the way of peace is quite simple. (2) This person agrees that we must have peace within ourselves and also extend it to our neighbor, but feels that this is not enough. There are a lot of well meaning people out there, but with fixed ideas who are happy to go to war to defend them. Part of the populace living in peace with themselves will have little effect on them for these people often think they have inner peace themselves. Just as there must be some plan and structure to discourage thieves burglarizing your home there must also be a plan on the physical plane that is followed to prevent war. Marylin was honest enough to be the only one to admit that she was in category one. Paul saw himself in a third category, but most of the rest of you saw yourself in category two. I would be willing to bet though that if Marylin saw the group working on a project that extended beyond category one that she would join in. It is interesting that many people associate Jesus with passiveness and even most Bible thumpers believe that work is not necessary to salvation, but Jesus himself spoke with different emphasis. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matt 5:16 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matt 16:27 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 4:34 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. John 9:4 I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Rev 2:23 Then Other Apostles spoke likewise: Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one o you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:14-17 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26 I find it interesting that most Bible believers as well as many non Bible believing New Agers are in he same camp on this philosophy. Despite these clear words in the Bible many of the religious believe that all they have to do to inherit the earth, eternal life or whatever is to just have faith in God and Jesus and they will carry the ball and take care of everything. Many (not all) of the New Agers, on the other end of the spectrum, who often despise the religious ones do the same thing. They think that all they have to do is have faith or make peace with the soul, Higher Self, God or whatever and everything will be done for them. If God wants peace, we'll have peace. If God wants war we will have war, but at least we'll have peace within ourselves. I think the two camps should shake hands and admit they are in the same belief system, only the vocabulary is different. The days of Jeremiah are interesting to consider because the people of Jerusalem had a philosophy very similar to many of the "faith only" people of today. Many of the spiritual teaches of that time claimed to be channeling or talking to God or high entities and all received the same message. What was that message? They were supposed to think peace, talk peace and believe the words of the teachers without question and all would be well. Their city Jerusalem would be secure because they were the chosen people under the umbrella of God's protection. Then this obnoxious guy named Jeremiah received some soul contact and had a true vision of the situation. He saw that if the people did not take some protective action along with their belief that they would be destroyed. He thus went among the leaders and the people and taught. Her is a sample of his words: Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. Jer 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard [it]? Jer 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. Jer 23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. Then Jeremiah told them very clearly that unless they changed their ways and listen to the true inner voice of God, instead of the outer voice of teachers crying peace that they would be destroyed. Jeremiah was made fun of, derided, called a troublemaker, false prophet, disturber of the peace reviled against and finally killed. Yet all of this disbelief in the results of their works and their belief in peace did not help them any more than it helped the United States and Europe prevent World War II by talking of peace only, but having no works. The deceived and the false prophets were astounded when they witnessed the Babylonians invading their land, stealing the treasures of their sacred temple and tearing it down. They firmly believed that God would never allow such a thing, but here they were witnessing it with their own eyes. Many of the people were killed, the most useful taken captive as slaves and the rest scattered to the four winds of heaven. Even though this type of calamity has happened time and time again to the peace with no works people, including the time of Atlantis, each new generation seems to believe that they are somehow special, that they are new and improved and that because of their enhanced spirituality that they are going to be protected by the divine power in a way that past generations were not. One of the main reasons the scriptures of the world and especially the Old Testament was written is to give us the lessons of history in the hope that the mistakes of the past are not repeated. The sage who stated that "he who does not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them," spoke correctly. Unfortunately, this is often quoted by people who are paying little attention to history. I'm out of time tonight, but I will leave you with one question. What mistakes are we (the world, your country or individually) making today that is a repetition of the past? What mistakes have we learned from history and seem to be correcting? Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8609 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Responsibility for Peace Zia writes: "And what I 'perceive' in what you write Marylin, is you are doing just that, endeavoring to LIVE it. Well done!! In love and laughter, ZIA" Hi Zia Thank you for your lovely post and compliment. Also, thank you for "reminding" me that it was time for another "self investigation" with emphasis on my intentions. That's why I have been a while getting back to you on this. Doing much searching of self. Yesterday I "felt the need" to pick up a book annd read and in the process oflooking through the books in my bookcase, one that I had completely forgotten about seemed to jump out at me. It was "The Edgar Cayce Primer" so I began reading and on the 14th page there was one of the things I had apparently been looking for. The chapter title is "Motivation and the Ideal". "The Cayce readings emphasize the crucial nature of this dimension of life when they stress that ". . . the most important experience of this or any individual entity is to first know what is the ideal--spiritually." By the word "Ideal," the readings refer to the standard of quality of motivation by which we measure our decisions and actions." "Here is a difference! rather than taking our motivation for granted as an unknown and unchangeable given (i.e., "That's just the way I am."), we are told to set an ideal by an act of our own will, to choose a standard of motivation by which we as individuals intend to measure our decisions and with which we wish to quicken our actions." "Thus, the first step in becoming motivated is to choose as a standard the quality of motivation which we want to have as the driving force behind our actions." The second step is to dwell upon this quality with the mind--not the intellect--but the imaginative forces of the mind. The key consists in inducing the mind to dwell upon the ideal. As we require the imaginative forces of the mind to dwell upon the high ideal, we are actually selecting the motivational circuitry in the body through which the life force may flow." These words really resonated with me. They explained far better than I could what I was understanding, so I thought I would pass them on. I chose Jesus the Christ as my ideal. I apologize JJ if I have over stepped here, but this is just one of the many similarities I find among the true teachings such as I feel we are receiving from you. It's amazing how much truth we can find, everywhere. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8610 From: Laura Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II "What mistakes are we (the world, your country or individually) making today that is a repetition of the past? What mistakes have we learned from history and seem to be correcting?" Very valuable questions here, JJ. I think that humanity as a whole does not ask them enough. Currently we as a global people are making the *huge* mistake of letting the few lead the many. Unearned authority has proven time and time again in all ways of life to be destructive in the end, and yet we as a human race continue to allow the crap to rise to the top and act as world leaders, etc. I'm going to have to give you an answer on the second part of the question later, as the first part was a knee-jerk response. I'm not sure what we're correcting. Well, I do take that back - Even though we're still allowing ourselves to be governed by idiots (which is and always will be a mistake), America in particular and many other nations have over the past couple of centuries become more democratic, transferring power from the elite to the people. Democracy has now (in America) become a bit of a joke due to corruption on the part of the elite and apathy (extreme apathy) on the part of the people. Nevertheless, the elite in power ARE accountable for their actions and will be called forth when the people so demand. So that's progress, I guess. Apathy, by the way, is one of my pet peeves and one of the two biggest reasons I've turned off my television set pretty much permanently. Mind candy such as what you see on Fox is meant and has been meant to keep the people of the nation happy. Smile-Buy-Smile-Spend-Smile-Buy is what is bombarded through the airwaves to millions upon millions of Americans on a daily basis. As a matter of fact, when I used to watch TV, I'd come home at about 5:30 or so and lose my entire evening in front of the set (yes, I'm a child of the 80s :) and would find it's suddenly 11:30, I've got nothing done and my entire evening has been spent watching colors move on a screen. LOL But I digress :) -Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8611 From: Susi Subject: OT They Live Greetings to All, Laura has sparked a remembering in me that I thought I would share. In her last post she mentioned..... 'Smile-Buy-Smile-Spend-Smile-Buy' And A long time ago, maybe 15 16 years ago my husband and I sat down and caught a movie on the T.V. It was called "They Live" and it stars Rowdy Ron Piper from Wrestle Mania but it has nothing to do with wrestling ;-) Just much to do with.... Eat, SLEEP, Consume, CON sume, CONSUME!!!If you can find it buried in a video store anywhere it is interesting to watch but be warned it might wake up a knowing and you will view at least the American society much differently. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8612 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: Catching Up Part II To the many of you who have written me off list about my prior post, and sign, symbol, and password given by those of the White Lodge, read this post closely. Several are right before your eyes. One so strong is made me chuckle knowing it would pass unnoticed. Those of Authentic Presence always identify themselves, but words often conceal, far more than they ever reveal. Your Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8613 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II J J Dewey wrote: "What mistakes are we (the world, your country or individually) making today that is a repetition of the past? What mistakes have we learned from history and seem to be correcting?" Well, we are falling into the ago old trap of thinking that government is the solution for everything. ;) We seem to be beginning to learn that you cannot make peace by making war. We also seem to be learning to accept differences in people, that we are not all the same. And that it's a good thing. Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8614 From: Margaret Leach Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II J J Dewey wrote: "What mistakes are we (the world, your country or individually) making today that is a repetition of the past? What mistakes have we learned from history and seem to be correcting?" Mistakes: Collectively, humanity still wants to blame someone else when things go wrong, have someone else take care of them, and in general, absolve ourselves of any personal responsibility. It is much more comfortable to be taken care of by the Beast! Examples of blame: In the U.S., our wonderful predilection for suing people is at an all time high. Here in New York state, a high school student lured a fellow student into the woods behind their school and stabbed her to death. The woods belonged to the school district and the murder was committed at night when school was not in session. The perpetrator confessed to the crime and is now serving his sentence behind bars. Nevertheless, the parents of the slain girl have sued the school district for compensatory damages, saying the school should have somehow known the young man was disturbed and taken measures to prevent his harming someone, and besides, the woods are a dangerous menace!! So of course the school is involved in an expensive lawsuit which all taxpayers of that district are paying for -- including the parents bringing the suit!!! All because these parents are evidently desperate to blame someone for their grief. Marilyn, wasn't it in Georgia that people were complaining because some disaster official didn't plan the evacuations well enough and the highways became totally jammed? Or was that one of the Carolinas? Rather than people accepting responsibility for their own Soul contact, and intuiting where they should be when, they blamed someone else for not organizing their flights better. It's so much easier to say it's the other person's fault. Example of wanting to be taken care of: Recent hurricane victims in NC were ANGRY because the federal government was not mobilizing itself fast enough to provide them with the kind of aid and relief they felt they deserved. I'm not talking about relief shelters, but rather help disposing of dead animals and other clean-up efforts. Mind you I am NOT saying that they didn't need or deserve help. I am only noting the attitude which says, "I deserve more, better and faster [free] help than I'm getting." I'm referring to the "entitlement" attitude. This attitude cycles around again and again and has become quite strong here in the U.S. with our strong social services program. Again, I'm NOT saying that we shouldn't help our fellow man. I'm simply pointing to an attitude which says "I want and *deserve* to be taken care of when times are tough for me." Let Big Brother Government [aka Beast] take care of me/them. And it's also much easier for the rest of us to LET BBG take care of them rather than pitching in ourselves. Charities weren't doing enough on a volunteer basis, so our social welfare and services programs started growing in the first place, because we weren't reaching out and helping our brothers and sisters enough. So, seeing the problem, we chose the Beast to take care of it for us. Then we don't have to think about it too much. What are we correcting? I agree, this one is much harder. I see so much repetition. But it's true, I also see more and more people willing to at least question Big Brother Government's decisions. Well, I suppose there has always been dissatisfaction and complaining, but now there is an awareness that, in fact, BBG might not be telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Just a wee bit o' cynicism! And I see a few, yes, precious few, willing to open their minds to greater truths. But even tho' it's only a few, I find there are many more people with open minds now than say 20 yrs. ago. I've focused on the political arena here but I see the same things in the field of higher education where my life is currently focused. A few (more than used to be) are opening their minds up to new possibilities in their field(s) but most just run with the pack of sheep. I could come up with some examples here too but this post is already too long and you're probably yawning by now so I'll stop and let someone else have a go at it! Blessings to all, Margaret Post No. keys-1: /1999-11-23/8615 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Acceptance you wrote: "Tao is the nameless out-going flow as one (1) which returns as two (2) in very much the same way as breathing out and in. This oneness-duality is completed by the third (3), the activity of manifestation, from which all things spring.' The secret of the return or reversal lies in the weakness or humility of beings carried by Tao on its return to NOTHINGNESS." "The part from the Tao Te Ching rings true, but then you have added the return to NOTHING part, whereas the Tao Te Ching stresses a return to oneness." Tao (Dao in the new official Romanization adopted by the United Nations) gives birth to one. Dao cannot be seen, heard or touched because it is like blurriness. One is being and being comes from nothing according to Lao Zi (official Romanization). Father is the one being but he comes from nothing, Dao being the transition between the Father and nothing. "Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings were corrupted within a few hundred years after he was gone, to aim more at seeking Nirvana. Buddha himself did not direct men to Nirvana. The Mahayana school of Buddhism, started circa 100 b.c., brought things more to fullness with the introduction of the ideas of the Bodhisattva, one who shuns nirvana in favor of returning to liberate the rest of humanity." 'THE SUPREME MYSTERY" "Whoever wishes to quickly rescue himself and another should practice the supreme mystery.- the exchanging of himself and the other." "Because of an excessive attachment to "self," even the slightest fear causes fear. Who would not hate that "self," who, like an enemy, is a carrier of fear; who, desiring a defense against sickness, hunger, thirst, and the like, destroys birds, fish, animals, and stands as their antagonist; who, for the sake of profit and honor would kill even his parents; who would steal even the Three Jewels, the inheritance which he has received? ... What wise man would desire that "self"? Who would protect it? Who would worship it? Who would not regard it as an enemy? Who would honor it?" "All of those who are in a condition of unhappiness in the world are that way because of desiring their own release. All of those who are in a condition of happiness in the world are that way from seeking the release of another." "Whatever calamities there are, and whatever sorrows and fears come to the world, they are all the result of attachment to self." Why is that attachment mine?" "Not having extinguished "self," one is not able to extinguish sorrow; just as one who has not extinguished a fire is not able to extinguish the burning." "It follows that for the sake of tranquilizing my own sorrow, and for the tranquilizing of the other's sorrow, I give myself to others and I accept others like myself." "Shantideva" "It seems to me that the above Mahayana text goes a long way towards explaining why many list members find fault with Paul's writings. We are seeking unity with each other and the Father, whereas Paul seems to direct us to seeking nirvana for ourselves and don't worry about everybody else. Whether that is his intent or the result of incomplete understanding or communication, I do not know, but that is how I read it. I hope this sheds some light, that we might all find ourselves reading from the same page." "An interesting side note: Tao is pronounced "dow" One, Rick Reversal or evolution is aimed at oneness of all integrated individual beings. Oneness of all is a transition to NOTHINGNESS. No one can get to nirvana without reaching such oneness in conscious awareness. Oneness and nothingness are not separated from each other. Dao being the connection thereof. Evolution then means return from duality to oneness which is completed by return to nothingness. NOTHINGNESS is by no means lack of being. It is indescribably beyond being. I was just answering Marilyn's question. I am surprised at the fuss about directing the group to seeking nirvana for themselves without concern for others. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8616 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Sending Good Will Caramel wrote: "Ya see Paul. Deep down inside, JJ understands you. He even compared you with one of my favorite people: Mahatma Gandhi. A man whom loved Peace and strived for it. BTW I had a dream with him July 16th of this year. I'll keep the dream to myself, but I can just say I felt so good and I felt so happy to see him in it that I didn't want to wake up. He was an admirable man." "JJ: The reason I ask is that my way of doing things seems so foreign to your way that that you're a little like Gandhi trying out for the first string in a pro football team. ..." "Yikes! What am I doing on posting mode? Back to lurker mode and planning on singing the song before I snooze off to Zzzzz. BTW, let's all do so. Disconnecting. It's late on this side of the globe. Hugs to you Paul and to all..Peace." Dear Caramel, So kind of you to extend your good will to me. I appreciate it very much. May God be your reward. Hugs to you too, Caramel. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8617 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT: Sending Good Will Rob wrote: "Indeed. If I ever need to exercise my open-mindedness I know all I have to do is read some of your posts, Paul." Hi Rob, I hope God will provide you with all the necessary energy for you to be rewarded whichever you turn and prosper in love. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-1: /1999-11-23/8618 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT (lol) Re: OT Re: OT Re: Associate Teachers Xavier wrote: "I hope I managed to define how a certain amount of discussion is not disruptive but is necessary. The key point is that you are not discussing in order to expand your point of view (it seems). Your point of view is different from the one of JJ, on key points. JJ's perception of things, we generally agreed to follow it and learn from it. This point I am making doesn't mean "submit or get out". It means, if you disagree on very important things, don't say it repeatedly, we heard it already, and it only deviates our attention from the teaching we are here to listen to." "And listen to the comments please, we are your audience, on a stage you might be covered with tomatoes, but here you use (not voluntarily I'm sure) the patience and reluctance of most people to say "enough, we don't want to hear this again". "PS And if I'm lacking of Love on this, sorry, sorry and sorry;-)" Hi Xavier, What you say makes sense, so don't feel sorry about it. My only answer to the essential point you brought up is this. If four people questioned me on what I posted for the first time I would feel obliged to answer each of them. That to others would feel like repeating the same thing over and over again. Maybe it would be better if I was able to answer all the four people in one post. Who would usually think of problems of this sort? As a matter of fact I didn't like to repeat the same thing over and over again myself. That felt pointless on my end as well. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8619 From: Marylin Subject: Re: The Power Of Sound Sharon writes: "I feel that if i verbally say my intent out loud it will help me, just like singing the song out loud helps me" Ah, Sharon, this is so beautifully put. You have expressed in words what I have needed to hear. Not just with the song but in other parts of my life also. Intent is so important. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-23/8620 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Translation Hi Xavier I laughed so much to hear that you had been so deeply aggressed (wounded?) for 1000's of French generations. Sympathetic, aren't I! So much for making friends with people in different countries! (I have to tell you that whenever I see or hear from you, I think of the Three Musketeers) I was interested to see the French word for Heaven is the same as that for sky (i.e. 'ciel'). Doesn't French distinguish between the two? As I have said before, j'aime la langue Francaise, and I think the Song sounds very beautiful in your translation. One more thing on language across cultures.... When I asked if I could nurse my Canadian friend's new baby, she nearly dropped him. I thought I was asking for a cuddle, she thought I was asking to breastfeed him! Love Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8621 From: J J Dewey Subject: Better Resurrection Have just time to answer Peter's questions: "So when the two entities (Melchizedek & Joshua) were outside the body of Jesus where did they go? What did they do? Did they take a break by celebrating or were they working on another plan? Why did it take 3 days for the resurrection to take place? When life after 3 days was brought back into the body, did Jesus (body) teleport himself outside of the tomb like John described in the Immortal Book? Finally, what is the significance of the resurrection? Why did this miracle have to be done? What does this resurrection really mean? JJ Actually, the Bible gives some information on this. During these three days Jesus visited what is called the "spirits in prison: I Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: I Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; I Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. I Peter 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. Here is another hint: Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) There is a principle hat you can not go higher than you have been low. Thus to ascend above all things Jesus descended and visited those of lowest vibration in the spirit world and then worked his way up to the highest entities in that invisible world. After he made this round the time had come to return to the body. The reason he waited three days is because it was the Jewish belief that it was impossible to raise the dead after there was no heartbeat for three days. This by reviving the body after three days was an impossible feat according to the authorities of that time. The disciple Jesus went through these experiences while the Christ was still linked to him while in deep meditation. The stone that covered the tomb was removed by several associate Masters who came to greet and assist the resurrected Jesus. Jesus could have walked through the stone, but its removal was a strong sign that a miracle had happened. Finally Peter asks a question that (What is the resurrection?) could take several long posts to answer, but I will say a few things. There are several degrees of resurrection. The lowest degree is through the principle of rebirth. This is called the resurrection of KRISIS in the Bible. The second is a renewal of the body, but after the body is renewed it will continue to age normally. This happened to Moses and Abraham in the Bible times. Finally there is the resurrection of life also called the "better resurrection." Heb 11:35 "Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection." Here we are told that the early saints knew of a "better resurrection" and that they were willing to go through great sacrifice in hope of achieving it. In this better resurrection spirit and matter reach a point of balance to the degree that the Master can renew his body indefinitely or reproduce any form from past lives. After this resurrection the person is as immortal as He wants to be. Nevertheless, the power of decision to become is still His and He still has the power to chose death and return to mortality as one of us for some work of service. The Ancient of Days became mortal after a long period of immortality. He did this when he became the first Adam or self conscious man. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8622 From: "Anni West" Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II Hi Keysters, What are we repeating? Oh, I think we have been fighting about religion for many, many years now. Most religious people seem to think that they have a monopoly on the truth - and that is very sad. Northern Ireland is one place where we are still working on this problem, but even here in little Denmark we have many problems because of religion. The Muslims coming into this country have their own fixed ideas about what is right and wrong and so does the Christian society. Nobody asks within. The beast is alive. We have learned nothing yet. What have we learned? I see two different tendencies among the countries of the world when we talk about co-operation. One is splitting up from the country that was felt as an oppressor. Like Kosovo where the people wanted sovereignty, and East Timor as well. The other tendency is the uniting of countries because the people want or choose it. Like the USA and EU. Forcing unity among the countries is on the way out and uniting countries of their own free will is on the way in :-)) Well, well just my 2 cents :-)) Love to you all Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8623 From: "Anni West" Subject: (OT) Sign, symbol and password Hi John and all, John W K wrote: "To the many of you who have written me off list about my prior post, and sign, symbol, and password given by those of the White Lodge, read this post closely. Several are right before your eyes. One so strong is made me chuckle knowing it would pass unnoticed. Those of Authentic Presence always identify themselves, but words often conceal, far more than they ever reveal. Your Friend, John" John, you are making me go crazy here :-)) I don't see anything! I know I am blind and probabbly not meant to see it etc. BUT I have some questions: - Can I learn what to look for from you (or others) or do I have to ask within and wait till I get an answer here (I am doing it already!) - Does the Song have the same identification within it? - Isn't it possible for the Dark Brothers to copy this identification if they know about it? Why not? - And very, very important to me (and probably others here too I guess): What happens when I am translating "The Immortal" - will this identification still be visible or can I spoil it because I am not worthy enough and do not know enough about sign, symbol and password? This is also important whenever we read some other translated things! John, I hope you will bear with me, but I really am very curious and also afraid to do some damage to "The Immortal" while translating it. Love to you all Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8624 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Sign, Symbol & Password I join with Annie, JW, i am just a novice when it comes to recognizing the 'hidden language' used by the Dark Brother's. So please be specific, I understanding torch's & double boxes, but i'm still in the dark (whoops, bad play on words) when it comes to hidden words. One more question to anyone that know's, thinks they know or has a good guess, what is racism really all about? It seems to keep us all so apart from each other. Is that also a ploy of the dark side. as i said, even after ????? years of following the spiritual seeker's path, i feel i have learned more since being on this list than in all the years before. Thank you all. Deepest affection to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8625 From: DKarountzos Subject: RE: Catching Up Part II - Dino JJ, Technology has brought the world closer in time and space. Certain individuals have made great efforts to put more thought on the world as a whole instead from a nationalistic point of view. Some of the world organizations such as the United Nations have tried to accomplish this. There also seems to be more of a general acceptance of the differences of religion and race. However, the technology that we have developed to bring the world closer also has the power to destroy us. Through fear of the unknown people are seeking separation from the whole. People do this by taking us against them approach. Change has to come from the bottom up with the general populace taking an active role in bringing about peace. We have to leave the world of individualized selfishness behind and create a world of selfless service. While taking this step we must make sure we don't trample on free will. Individuals, nations and the world have to think, and live peace. We should not go to war and then try to create peace after the war is over, or do an injustice then give punishment to create justice. We should attempt to be justice, peace and love. Human all want these things but unless we live them the possibility of our world being destroyed is very real. The people that live them must initiate ways to help others see the great benefit of living them. Am I on the right track here? I have a question Is the Shamballa a physical place here on the earth? Is the Ancient of Days also in physical form? I know he has the power to move in and out of the physical world. Peace, Dino. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8626 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: OT - Racism Sharon writes: "One more question to anyone that knows, thinks they know or has a good guess, what is racism really all about? It seems to keep us all so apart from each other. Is that also a ploy of the dark side." Hi Sharon and all, :) some words I associate with racism are: ignorance, intolerance, self-centeredness, low self- esteem and self-knowledge. I think these often go hand in hand - when you don't know your self well enough it is impossible to stretch the boundaries of your existence to embrace anything seemingly outside of you, and instincts of lower nature keep your awareness focused on your own survival on the expense of others; after all it's the survival of the fittest, right? I just wrote this to a friend last night; Knowing yourself equals understanding and loving your fellow man. Fear originates from shadows of awareness, from not knowing the truth but guessing in darkness; Freedom equals understanding true nature of things and taking this knowingness into your heart. In general, most of us all have lived lives as members of different races, we've worn many suits, we've danced in many dresses. I think sometimes racism may come from subconsciously remembering something we ourselves have done when we've lived as part of a different culture, different color; it originates from something we haven't accepted as 'being us' and as one of our deeds. Hatred towards another man may very well be connected to lack of self-acceptance. I have always loved the native American saying which translates into: You are another myself. One of yous, Samu chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8627 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Racism "'You Are Another Myself'" Thanks, Samu, that's beautiful. Your words ring true, thank you. Being raised in the south i was faced with racism everyday. It just never made any sense to me, and when i hear KKK clans talking about why they are superior to other race's it makes even less sense, one person once said they hated Jews because they ripped the still beating heart out of Jesus' chest while he hung on the cross. It is just such a strong and as you say, Samu, ignorant tool to keep people separated from each other without knowing why. Is this another Tower of Babel? love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8628 From: Susi Subject: Re: OT Sign, Symbol & Password (Sharon wrote) "One more question to anyone that knows, thinks they know or has a good guess, what is racism really all about?" (Susi) Back before we have records of history....but we are finding remnants more rapidly now to substantiate at least the existence of humans...When we first came to be here on Earth we had much more DNA strands than we currently do now. Something close to 15,000 or more. I'm not giving specifics, I am giving a general overview and if anyone is interested I'm sure there are many sites out there that cover this information in detail. Well our ancestors had much larger heads and bodies than we do and used more of there brain. There were many accidents which caused several mutations and a fall in ourconsciousness....there were also other beings from other planets that needed our Souls so they mated with humans and again we saw another fall in our vibration. We humans were set up to function on a magnetic frequency and these other beings were of an electrical nature. This also is what causes our Molecular structure to degenerate instead of rotating properly and at the speed originally designed for us humans. From what I can make out of it the Aborigines in Australia and the dark or black people of the world hold the closest vibration to the original and it will be much easier for these people to ascend. The white races of the world have the least amount of the original blue print and have the hardest time connecting with their consciousness. So follows the Chinese and other Asian descendents. When we first roamed the earth some 40 or 50 thousand years ago we were in a fifth dimensional state and through all the human made disasters our bodies and the earth were no longer able to hold the high vibration necessary so we fell into our current 3rd dimension, we became denser. We experienced separation from Source due to the lack of communication or better the lack of our ability to communicate on a higher level....this is when fear and eventually mortality came into our world. In the beginning Souls could come to earth and experience many different realities prior to ascending which took close to 500 years and as others evolved or ascended that could take the leaders place the leaders would ascend. It would be there choice to leave by raising their vibration which would make a human seem to disappear as their body ascended with them this is a Biological ascension as opposed to one achieving ascension through spirituality which entails achieving a certain state of consciousness and casting off ones body.....it is viewed by the hierarchy as a false ascension and many of the Masters that teachers rely upon to day and for centuries now have been asked to reincarnate and accomplish the Biological ascension. So your question of why Racism.....my answer we all have a genetic encoding that is held in our DNA and even though we are not aware of it these other beings that mixed with humans they were at war and have been for thousands of years....the genetic encoding that each of our human races holds is slightly different and our many levels of consciences are aware of these subtle and not so subtle differences. This is what directs us or gives us instincts and this is why there is racism.....one thing we do all have in common is that we are all of human decent so we can find the common threads and come together as one race called humanity that will walk the earth in peace together.....much more than this, we are all from Source which created all that exists or ever will so again we can find a common thread and come together in peace. There are races that exist on other dimensions that do not have Souls due to disasters that they have created and experiments they have done and these beings have been mining Souls from earth for years......this has now been realized and is being worked on by Over seers or Governors of our Ovum. A simple way to look at why is because we are different, we look, speak, act, different, we have different traditions and rituals, and we have different vibrations. Since we do not receive clear signals from Source or even our Over seers we view difference as something to fear hence we have made up our minds before we can even walk as to our prejudices.....as we ascend (awake) and are able to receive clearer our prejudices will naturally be over come. www.calltoascend.org will give you lots of insight to this matter if you have days to study the material available. There are many other common threads that seem to run through out many different ways of teaching and findings by other individuals who think they are alone in their beliefs but when one looks at all of them together they say many of the same things....they only use different words......something this list of Keysters is very familiar with. (Sharon) "It seems to keep us all so apart from each other. Is that also a ploy of the dark side. as I said, even after ?????" (Susi) I have a very hard time separating dark from light, it feels to me that I am able to contain all aspects of both and I really feel that all humans are able too. So when you say is it the dark side I say no, it comes from within and it can not be blamed on a Dark Brother just as things that are perceived to be good come from within and if you feel it necessary to praise the Light Brothers in actuality you should praise yourself for using your powers, information, grid work and keys to bring about happiness and peace. It is all about choice, free will, intent, and desire....amongst other things. If you wish to create a world that does not have racism then you must go to the core and look for the similarities then on your journey back allow for the differences and accept. You will see the world much differently then......If we were all exactly the same this experience of life would be very very boring. Conflict is caused by a lack of understanding, understandings are found through knowledge, knowledge with out wisdom is only words, symbols, emptiness, Wisdom with out self love has been used to create chaos, against what others may say to me, Love is one of the keys! So in conclusion I think I have rambled on way too much and probably would be better if I just analyzed this to death and found the correct facts, etc... so as to try my best to convey the intended message. But instead I will let what flowed out of me go to the list in its rawness and those that find fault or identify may seek within for their own answers.....these are PARTS of mine. Please remember though that words are just words and the true meaning behind mine can be found by looking deep and sensing what I am really trying to say. This is probably not in keeping with JJ's teachings and I apologize for that. Many Blessings ;-) Susi Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8629 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: RE: (OT) Sign, symbol and password Anni wrote: "John, you are making me go crazy here :-)) I don't see anything! I know I am blind and probably not meant to see it etc." Anni for some reason I just seem to have that effect on people sometimes. One sweet lady on the forum the other day said "John if I didn't like you so much I would shoot you" for giving me all these clues. I can't get anything else done in life. It's all I think about. Then she told a story of how she went shopping with friends. A salvation Army worker was ringing a bell, and she went running toward him away from her friends, yelling, "A Bell Ringer, A Bell Ringer." She says her friends think she has totally lost her marbles, and she is beginning to wonder herself. She said it is impossible to explain the Immortal to anyone, they think I'm bonkers. I gave her 12 copies of Book One and told her to convince them to read it, and to stop trying to explain it. LOL "BUT I have some questions: - Can I learn what to look for from you (or others) or do I have to ask within and wait till I get an answer here (I am doing it already!)" The only way you will learn it Anni, is by Aspiration, and Worth. By this I mean by your sincerity, and service, you may well become noticed by the White Lodge. Then you will experience certain Initiations, and be chosen for higher work, and service, and over time you will learn these things. It was never my intention to have the effect that I caused in this set of circumstances. My point was that there are many people, and groups on the net, especially Spirit Web, claiming to be spreading the Teachings of the GWB when in fact they're only affiliation is by hallucination, or by being dupes of the Dark Brothers. Some even sell this information. I have read a great deal of this information presented for research, and few of these show any sign of affiliation, whatsoever. Much of this information is nothing more than pure fiction, and I emphasize Pure Fiction. The rest is Illusion, and Glamour. My point was that although JJ Dewey has never once claimed to be affiliated with the Hierarchy he has consistently imbedded, in every instance, the correct, and uncorrupted signals, signs, and other methods of recognition that any Authentic Master would be required to provide to enter the Higher Initiatory Arena's. Any Authentic Teacher of the White Lodge, teaches the Uncorrupted version. I've noticed our dear brother Rick is right on the Mark Lately himself, which tends to make me think he is receiving a lot of light directly, because he never deviated from the path of a True Seeker while being tested in the Fire. His Aspiration was Sincere, and sometimes he forced himself to take the difficult path, rather than the one of least resistance for the simple reason, that is what his soul directed him to do. The Light Shines through, and he show a great ability to separate truth from illusion. Down through the Ages, the Hierarchy has always chosen someone best suited, for an exact set of circumstances or mission. That person either already has, or is given the True Doctrine, to the degree they have the ability, to receive it. They in turn share it with others in the degree they are capable, of receiving it. They in turn do the same, ad infinitum. It is never long before someone, or a group strays from the course, and begins to corrupt the Gnosis. This is when they usually find themselves cut off from further revelation, light, and progress. Look back again now at the first in Line. He preformed his Mission admiralty, and having given all he had to give, He is again given Greater, and More to share with his students. As long as this process continues without corruption the process of growth continues unobstructed. Anni as soon as you give, all that you have, you receive more, and your growth continues. Personally I'm not at all worried about your growth. Some get it, some don't. "- Does the Song have the same identification within it? - Isn't it possible for the Dark Brothers to copy this identification if they know about it? Why not?" No, not really, but they will try to corrupt it, and the way it is viewed by those using it. This has been the Method of Operation down through history. As long as the deeper meaning doesn't change, and the singers have Soul contact the power is intact. Take for instance your statement about not being able to find what I mentioned in JJ's words. Long ago certain groups were then sanctioned by the GWB. They were given a great Gnosis, but they had to get the deeper, and even deeper meaning. For some time this Great Source of Light existed on this earth uncorrupted. The people who served in this organization could quickly and easily recognize another servant, yet those uninitiated didn't have a clue. Later in History, as in Christianity this group divided. For some time both groups did there work admirably, and were of great service to mankind in many ways. This group had more to do with the American Revolution, and the Declaration of Independence than anyone could ever believe. Some of the Greatest Names in the History Books contain the names of some of the Key People involved. Some of these people belonged to both groups, and thereby held all signs, and symbols to be recognized by both. Then something happened, enter the Beast, and soon one branch of this beautiful body, began to fall from the light. If a Man was of great service to his fellow man, he could be easily overlooked for someone of Political Power, or great wealth. Soon they had fallen so far that they became separated from the light, and no longer considered worthy of further consideration as an arm of the GWB. Both of the Organizations I refer too, had a group or body, referred to as the Illuminati. The first group maintained it's connection, and continued to receive more from a higher source. The latter group was totally cut off, and became nothing more than an arm of the Dark Brothers, in Political, and Business Arena's. Today you will find many people screaming that the Power of the Illuminati runs the World, and they are right to an extent, it's just another facet of the Beast. At the same time this is an Insult to the True Illuminati who never fell, who serve admirably, and by their service, and Sincerity are still a source of Great Light to the World although they work behind the scenes in most instances, caring not for the admiration of Politics, or Big Business. They serve the Hierarchy. "- And very, very important to me (and probably others here too I guess): What happens when I am translating "The Immortal" - will this identification still be visible or can I spoil it because I am not worthy enough and do not know enough about sign, symbol and password?" I don't think JJ Dewey is worried about this part at all. The Immortal speaks for itself, and it's The Degree of Soul Contact One has that determines the true course, and impact on the reader. In this case Sign, Symbol, and Password isn't necessary. In the first place they are only used as an introduction, the Doctrine must still stand the Ultimate test, the Test Of The Soul! It was my Soul that confirmed the Immortal to me, long before I ever noticed sign, symbol, or password. I truly began to notice those as I began to read the Archives. The Final Test is Always your Soul, as our Teacher has taught us, time, and time again. Now the part I'm reluctant to speak on is the translation itself. I don't envy anyone who has this job. I realize how great a job it is. On this point, the first thing I would do if I were translating is, Pray for Guidance! After I saw the work of some of those translation programs I have to admit, I cringed. LOL This is also important whenever we read some other translated things! John, I hope you will bear with me, but I really am very curious and also afraid to do some damage to "The Immortal" while translating it. Anni you have a beautiful spirit, and so sincere, besides being very adept in both languages. That is a great start. "Why is it, I see someone 200 years from now with a Concordance saying, NO, No, That's not what JJ Dewey meant. LOL" Anni I just can't help you with that one! LOL Your Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8630 From: "Caramel" Subject: Re: OT: Sending Good Will You're welcome. Bear hug for all... and Happy Thanksgiving to all too. Caramel Here's the bear... / \ .--. | |--._/ | .'\ / . `'._/ / : \ / : ) ; .-. .-.' | () _() | `-. | , (__) __\ /| .') \'-)____ ; \ .' /_ `\-. `-._ `-'' .' / ) _ `'-....' .'-. /` `. < '. / ' --' '. \ | ; .--= \_.-'\ |_. ._; `-. \ /| | ___...--; \ ; | \__..--'' \-` \ : \ \ | | : \ \ | / : \ ; /`---' \ '. / / \ . `----' . .-' `. / \__..-` | `| | / | / / | / .'__ | _.' ` `. \ `"-. / '._ /____.-' '-.____.' Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8631 From: "Caramel" Subject: OT: Pokemon, Diabolique? Geez, check out today's headline in one of our newspapers: Pokemon: Diabolique? Actually a religious senator is asking that there be an investigation to determine if there is anything diabolique in the Pokemon. He wants to ban Pokemon, if possible. Talk about living in fear. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8632 From: Susi Subject: OT-Just how superior are we? Hello my fellow Keyster friends, I would like to make a few posts to the list for all to ponder. While reading a book last night to my children a few light bulbs went off in my head and I wanted to stop and post to all of you what I had found......So here is the beginning of what many may already know but I have found some key words in this Authors works that parallel some of the words we discuss here. The name of the book I am referencing is "Animal Architecture" and I only discovered tonight the Authors name which is Jennifer Owings Dewey.... (interesting) I'll start with Termites which she calls 'Civil Engineers': Did you know termites are one of the earth's oldest insects? Did you know that termites build mounds that reach up to 40 feet tall, last hundreds of years and are home to millions of termites. These mounds, called Termitaries, are a complex arrangement of rooms and passages....usually symmetrical...ventilated with shafts and ducts for air circulation. Does this sound familiar? Do we humans build tall buildings that are home to many humans and are they a complex arrangement of rooms and passages....usually symmetrical....ventilated with shafts and ducts for air circulation? Just how much more intelligent are we? They live in highly organized colonies...all members are crucial to its survival. Upon hatching a termite is fed various secretions from the mouths and bodies of other termites, and these feedings alter the termite's internal development. Does this parallel what we do with our young? Do we feed secretions from our mouths and bodies? I know I would chew meat and feed it to my infants and from my body came milk....hummmm. Some grow into reproductive adults, others into workers or soldiers.....I did not and still do not understand the reference to soldiers....oh never mind I do, they will swarm in defense if there mound is attacked. Defense is the key word here though...they are not offensive. I would venture to say that we humans, even the non-aggressive or passive, would defend our homes if they were under attack....I know I certainly would and I consider myself a peaceful person, striving to resolve all conflicts through understanding prior to acting with aggression but if someone where to come to my home and attempt to harm I wouldn't hesitate to take action......does this mean I am not a peaceful person? Does this mean Termites are not peaceful? Did you know the worker termites lay down plant material on spongy masses of their own dropping to promote decay, rot, and mold? Is this not composting??? Then a fungus begins to grow ......one the termites can eat! Does this not give purpose to the workers lives? They are producing food for an entire colony with as many as TEN million termite residents.....Wow! That tells me that value is to be placed equally amongst all members of the Termite world and so in keeping with the parallels is the value of each and every individual equal amongst us humans ;-) Did you know gasses form, from these composting agricultural rooms, which provide heat for the mound and on especially cold days worker termites carry eggs and larvae from one room to another, seeking the warmest spots....amazing. The termites need to drink so they dig up to 100 feet into the earth to reach ground water.......how many of you have a well to provide you with your much needed water supply? Several times a year reproductive termites will swarm from their mounds and mate......mated pairs then find a hole in the ground and start raising broods of eggs, forming the *NUCLEUS of a new colony.....the first born are workers...to build the nest, nurse the young and collect food. Later they will raise the soldiers who defend the colony. So the soldiers come last after they realize the nucleus is thriving and might need defending.....from what? I suppose those other animals that would prey on them, other species of animals? They do not fear or see a need to defend against their own kind as we humans do.....maybe there is a lesson to be learned....maybe not, you decide. A termitary, with as many as ten million termite residents, runs so smoothly that it acts like a single organism---a Universe unto itself...... Small wonders, perhaps we should take notice. If you enjoyed this I'll post another on bees later. Much love and Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" P.S.I could not find the reference in the book as to the height of the mounds though I looked several times tonight. Last night my 7 year or 9 year old asked me how tall they were and I fingered back through the pages and read Forty feet.......where those words went tonight are beyond me but this type of thing has happened with other books as well so I let it go.....if any of you get the book and find them let me know please so I do not think things are appearing and disappearing in front of me ;-) *Nucleus is an interesting word to look up in the dictionary. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-24/8633 From: Susi Subject: OT-Just how superior are we? Editor's Note: Repeat post of No. 8632 Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8634 From: Jean Subject: The Hunger Site Home - Donate Food for Free to Give to Feed Hungry From: angel-girl@... My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime http://www.thehungersite.com/ Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8635 From: Jean Subject: The Hunger Site Home - Donate Food for Free to Give to Feed Hungry Editor's Note: Repeat post of No. 8634 Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8636 From: Karountzos Subject: Business of "Spirits" - Peter Re: Sending Good Will JJ, you had previously posted a quote by Leonardo DeVince saying "Before something can be loved, it must first be understood." I believe Leonardo's principle is a key to building good relations with people of other nations. The Internet is an important tool to help bring the world together among its people. It is a vehicle that can help us begin understanding each other. Many of us have placed judgment among other nations and its people without really knowing anything about them. We take other people's opinions (media) and use them as if these opinions are ours based on our own personal experience. Our false judgments clear when circumstances (Internet, work, neighbor, etc.) brings us opportunities to know/understand someone from a different race/color as an individual. It isn't until we build a successful relationship with this individual, that we release all or most false judgments of this new friend and his people/nation. The Internet does not place judgment on race or color. It will open its doors to anyone. It gives the people in this world an opportunity to connect without any false illusions (race/color/wealth, etc.). As the intent brings the world together, we will begin to understand each other, and in turn find love in all. Dino & I are in the "Spirits" business - we own a tavern together. Although we have a comfortable/cozy and safe establishment there has been times that people (who know nothing about each other) have engaged in silly confrontation. I would say that 99% of the time, this usually includes someone who is fairly new to the establishment. Although Dino and I know that both individuals are genuinely good people, because we have had an opportunity to build a relationship with them, they don't know that about each other. They have created a false illusion of one another. It isn't until we help them see the confrontation in a different perspective that they just stop or walk away. These confrontations rarely happen among our regular clientele. They have had an opportunity to understand and accept each other with all their differences and through this they have formed a close bond among themselves. Our establishment creates circumstances/opportunities, just like the Internet does, for people to meet and understanding each other. Being in a business of people and witnessing union among men and women brings us much joy. If the Internet itself has a conscience, it will one day experience this joy as well. Happy Thanksgiving, Peter. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8637 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Hello my friends, sorry to be posting an OT-message again, but I found this one interesting and it is related to soul contact/power of decision etc. So, for your reading and discernment... Any thoughts/feelings? http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/ConsciousDNA.txt Good thoughts and happy enzymes, :) Samu Samu Karlsson eMail: samu3@dlc.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine... but you already know this, don?t you? Tm viesti on lhetetty Saunalahden Serverin Webmailista osoitteesta: www.saunalahti.fi Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8638 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: OT - Conscious DNA: Mind over matters missing link is the missing subject line of my previous post, sorry... Samu Karlsson eMail: samu3@dlc.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 Just remember not to forget and you?ll be fine... but you already know this, don?t you? Tm viesti on lhetetty Saunalahden Serverin Webmailista osoitteesta: www.saunalahti.fi Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8639 From: J J Dewey Subject: Discovering Truth Suzi quotes some unusual material here. The Internet has indeed given us the blessing of having available resources before undreamed of and this gives us opportunities to discover never before available. However, it also creates additional problems of overload. Just browse through Spiritweb alone (only one of thousands of metaphysical sites) and you will find teachings covering a broad spectrum indeed. The question that many ask is how do we know if any particular teaching has any truth behind it. Are there nine initiations or twelve? Are there seven chakras or 18? Are we being transformed into the 5th dimension, 24th or are we just slowly evolving in the current dimension? Do we need to follow guru A, B or C to save us from the earth changes, nasty aliens or whatever? Is Zor coming with his spaceship or not? From the beginning I have taught you to look for the principles. Therefore, I ask: How do we discover the truth of a certain presentation? What are the principles we look for to discern truth from fiction in the many channelings and teachings presented to us? Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8640 From: J J Dewey Subject: Happy Thanksgiving I want to wish all U.S. citizens a happy Thanksgiving. And for the rest of you I wish you a happy day of thanksgiving, holiday or not. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8641 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II Margaret Leach writes: "Marilyn, wasn't it in Georgia that people were complaining because some disaster official didn't plan the evacuations well enough and the highways became totally jammed? Or was that one of the Carolinas?" Hi Margaret That occurred in N.C. The evacuation from the Georgia coast went very well and at least half of the evacuees were housed in private homes through offers of local people. Personally, I would never want to live in N.C. It's still under water in some places along the coast. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8642 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Catching Up Part II JJ writes: "I would be willing to bet though that if Marylin saw the group working on a project that extended beyond category one that she would join in." Ah, yes, indeed, I have already joined in. You see, I believe that peace must first begin within ourselves. How can we advocate to another something we do not first live ourselves? The "outward radiation" is only a description of "being an example" to others. That does not negate us from continuing to be responsible for our thoughts and actions. In fact, I am finding that there is a great deal more work involved in focusing on love when performing such things as "cleaning up a mess my lazy grandson made". It's easy to say we love the world and all the people in it, but it's another thing to bring that same practice into your own, private, personal home where you are bared to the raw bones truth of a given situation. You may be faced with obstination. I can guarantee it is "work" to face such a thing with love. You see, I am, by choice, moving away from the importance of things physical. I do not advocate that any should follow me as this is My path. More and more, only the love of our Creator is most important in my life. This is why I identified myself as a one. However, it appears there is something else to these two categories. Step 1 is peace.....Step 2 is doing....like two rungs of a ladder. In effect there is no third category, just a climbing of the steps one at a time. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8643 From: "Adrian" Subject: Re Discovering Truth JJ wrote.... "From the beginning I have taught you to look for the principles. Therefore, I ask: How do we discover the truth of a certain presentation? What are the principles we look for to discern truth from fiction in the many channelings and teachings presented to us" I take it you are taking some time to review and clarify some things JJ - As i see it the principles go beyond the obvious -- or that which is presented. Sometimes this is a subtle difference , sometimes not so subtle... One of the main principles in my mind is does something that is 'presented' diminish or 'maintain' or 'encourage' individual free will - Look upon that which is before you in terms of what benefit you think it presents to the 'whole' 'group' rather than the individual 'personality' or 'ego'. - be detached - and objective as much as possible... -- i am obviously paraphrasing you here JJ... Check out what your intellect is telling you with the 'small' voice!!! -- listen carefully --- Attention / Detached Awareness being the 'key' What you may perceive might make you suddenly think that you are constantly surrounded in a situation in which everyone around you is 'asleep' -- you may feel that you have lived in a dream all of your days - your everyday situations are suddenly kind of 'alien' to you - and you have suddenly woken up to see all around you are in a state of 'slumber' - do they know that you are awake?? -- does it show?? apparently not -- the sleepers are not 'opposed' to the enlightenment 'principles they simply 'don't seem to care' - or more likely 'indifferent' - but maybe this is just a 'revelation' of the the field of battle you are 'actually on -- You realise that the 'beast' is all around you and 'seems' to have advantages that you don't possess -- for don't you feel in a strange way that you are 'alone'??? - you are not 'afraid' 'why' not?? Surely this is familiar ground to the 'beast'?? another illusion???!!!! - Doubt is surely his trusty 'lance' so often used to pierce the breast of those that have rubbed their eyes and taken a look at a world that seems so ever so real -- could it really be so?? - Strange it is to walk through a world you once took to be 'normal' and see it is filled with beings who are in 'slumber' - but 'is' the one coming around the corner 'awake' too?? -- and on 'which' side is his allegiance? - Does he serve the 'beast'?? or 'that' which you cannot quite yet point your finger at?? 'One' must remain 'awake' ever vigilant....! The slumberers would surely be overjoyed to experience what you have experienced -- Let us apply all our efforts to 'share' this wondrous thing:-) Battle has to be joined!!!!!:-) Adrian Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8644 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT DNA thanks Samu, for the most interesting paper now a question, we now have a two strand DNA do you believe we are in the process of increasing to a 12 strand and will INTENT help to cause this? love & happy turkey day to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8645 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re Discovering Truth I was going to take a whack at an answer, but I cannot improve upon Adrian's posting. Suffice it to say, you must put any teaching to the test. Well done! ~B. Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8646 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Discovering Truth JJ says, "From the beginning I have taught you to look for the principles. Therefore, I ask: How do we discover the truth of a certain presentation? What are the principles we look for to discern truth from fiction in the many channelings and teachings presented to us?" Rick replies, Time was when I would have jumped at debating various elements on cosmology, such as some that Suzi recently mentioned. I'm a bit more efficient with my time, these days though. There is so much science fiction on the net, I could spend eons refuting. All I can do is put them to a personal test to see if they ring true with my soul and/or are just plain common sense. I can then distill and forward the information and hope that my listeners apply the same tests themselves. Debating, as we have seen here, can take up allot of valuable time. Allow me a few brief notes on some points that I have passed through my soul/common sense filters. Lost DNA: We have DNA that contains programming bits from all creatures on earth and can be mapped on the tree of evolution. Each species is built up from additions to the DNA. Bacteria have some of our DNA. If we evolved and lost some of our original genetic program, how did these germs get our DNA and still manage to be here before us? How long have we been on earth: We have unearthed ancient cities, in Pakistan, that are more than 50 thousand years old. Ancient records tell of the first civilization beginning 75 thousand years ago, but that mankind had already been here for half a million years prior to that. Further more, these old records tell of technologies more advanced than our own. We have found human bones beneath mountains, so we must have been here allot longer than most people give us credit for. Dimensions: All manifestations contain all dimensions. A dimension is a measure of what a thing is made of. You already are more than three dimensional, whether you are conscious of it or not. The idea of ascending to a higher dimension seems pointless and just clouds the truth, as far as I can see. Superior races: Ouch, beware. We all have the same soul and each body has everything needed for it's continued development. We have all been a part of all the races, in no particular order. Suggesting that one race is any better than another is not doing any good for humanity and is best left to small minds. Ok, enough of my 2 cents. I've got to go eat some turkey. Just a formality, today. We give thanks every time we say the song. That is how each verse starts. Thank you, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8647 From: Margaret Leach Subject: Re: OT DNA Samu - Thank you so much for sharing that paper. Terrific! Spoke to me directly on a couple of points I've been chewing on. Thank you!! Thank you!! :-) Love and Light, Margaret Samu Karlsson wrote: "http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/ConsciousDNA.txt" Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8648 From: Margaret Leach Subject: Re: Discovering Truth "JJ says, "From the beginning I have taught you to look for the principles. Therefore, I ask: How do we discover the truth of a certain presentation? What are the principles we look for to discern truth from fiction in the many channelings and teachings presented to us?" My first reaction has already been stated: Measure whatever is being said with my own soul -- does it resonate within? Very often I will sense that there is an element of truth, or some core truth, but the details/facts are a little [or a lot!] off. In that case, I just take the info and put it on the shelf, so to speak, for later chewing / viewing. I also agree with Adrian: ask if this info promotes the general good? Or does it somehow elevate some while leaving others out? etc. Love and light, Margaret Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8649 From: Laura Subject: Re: Discovering Truth Well, I may have this wrong, JJ, but it all boils down to Soul Contact. When I read that a spaceship is going to be meeting all initiates on the top of the Carew Tower downtown at noon on Friday, what does it do to my soul? Does something click and tell me YES YOU NEED TO BE THERE!!? Or does my soul laugh hysterically and wonder how some people can be so far off base? Becoming more familiar with my Soul and its own language has been a beautiful experience, and I've found inherent truths in non-esoteric writings now that I've begun to listen more to myself. -L Post No. keys-l: /1999-11-25/8650 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Discovering Truth I think some of the undeniable elements of anything containing truth is that it resonates within your soul, it elevates your understanding and awareness to a new level, it brings a fresh perspective to your present view, it's useful, it is something that can be applied right here and now with concrete results. With that I mean, with so much information and knowledge out there, we need to be able to discern what is usable for us right now, what helps us bring out, not only the best in each of us but guides us to discover new expanded qualities and powers that are for the best benefit of the whole. If something is true then it's also real; anything that's fictive or pure imagination can not be verified nor can anything incessant and fruitful be built upon it. I just read this quote: Sherlock Holmes [Sir Arthur Conan Doyle]: "...when y