1999 - WEEK 41 Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7534 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject Splinter Group Rick I know we agreed to keep our reply's separate from this group, but after reading your words I just feel the need to say that I'm proud to be a part of this. Your words were an inspiration, and it would be difficult for anyone to do a better job of summarizing our objectives than you just did. Several days ago Laura and I were discussing similar ideas and how to go about it, then you made your post suggesting this group, and I realized that this was not just something in my head, but a common thread we all were getting through the Principle of Oneness, therefore I feel it's inspired, and meant to be, therefore so be It!. Now considering the great talent I've observed while being a part of this list, will all volunteers please take one step forward! Your friend, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7535 From: "Yvonne Pisz" Subject: Re: Judgment Revisited Hi Folks, I thought I would share just one more thought on the question of judgment. Actually, the thought is not my own, but originates from the scriptures. What is so interesting about this reference is that it seems to balance the discussion very well. I have personally found myself leaning on this scripture in times of great distress and can attest that the Truth here works very well. 1 Cor 4:3-5 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. (NIV) In this scripture we can see that judgment is certainly a part of our daily lives and that it is not an evil practice in itself. But as JJ notes, wrong judgment is wrong. So what is prescribed here is that we needn't rush into judgment of another or even ourselves, but that we have assurance that if we will yield our judgment to that of the Lord, some wonderful things will occur. First we see that things hidden in darkness are brought to light. Next are the motives of men's hearts exposed. This is interesting because these are things which are not accomplished by simply relying on our own judgment. But what is most intriguing is the last result which is listed. "At that time each will receive his praise from God". How different is this result of judgment from that which is rendered by humans. When seen in its simplest terms then, it appears that God uses judgment as a means of healing, where man, when blinded, uses it as a means of accusation. So choosing how and when we will employ judgment will result in either condemnation or commendation. May we use it wisely. Love and Blessings, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7536 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Judgment Revisited JJ wrote: "John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." "Judge with clarity, wisdom and love and when you are then judged, as you have judged, all will be well with you, but if you do not judge righteously then the law of karma will bring painful judgments to your door." Judgment by appearance is judgment of good and evil as if good and evil are separated from each other; righteous judgment is judgment by the will of the Father or the principle of oneness which transcends separative duality. Righteous judgment is judgment of all-embracing love that there is not but one blissful life. The judge of karma is not an authority or power outside of the human being themself. It is practically the soul that applies the law of balance or karma to the personality she uses as hers. The soul can commute the punishment due the personality or do whatever she sees fit to achieve the apparently lost balance of forces. When you judge others you are actually judging yourself. Not knowing this truth one would focus all their attention on others and being unbalanced would necessarily magnify their judgment about others. How could they do otherwise if their thinking has split their images of "I" and "me" and subsequently of good and evil? As long as oneness is not upheld with the soul's intuition no one is free from judgment by appearance. As one judges oneself they will suffer the consequence of their judgment proportionately unless they did not know what they were doing. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7537 From: Susi Subject: Re: Karma Zia Wrote: "When the soul provides its direction, many may judge that direction as 'bad'. I have personally experienced that. Not only bad, but crazy, insane... so many judgments. Then when a 'miracle' has occurred that this was indeed the appropriate and most splendid guidance from my soul.... well then it was considered 'luck'. Happily my ears are no longer so attuned to the world's judgments. Rather my spirit whisperings and soul guidance, and God-love become my propelling forces. Then I am free to laugh and love." This to me leaves a feeling that it was truly inspired for you to write it and I get you meaning crystal clear. It is a wonderful quote that came out of your sharing ;-) JJ Wrote: "John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." JJ Wrote: "Judge with clarity, wisdom and love and when you are then judged, as you have judged, all will be well with you, but if you do not judge righteously then the law of karma will bring painful judgments to your door." and again JJ Wrote: "When you think of it, it is silly to say we should not judge. As soon as you wake in the morning you make a judgment as to whether to get up or sleep a while longer. When you get in the shower you make a judgment as to when you are clean enough to get out." All of these are excellent points and for me I receive the same meaning from each of them. We at sometimes might blurt out the saying 'judge not least ye be judged your/ourselves', but in fact the above is what many of us are meaning to say at least this holds true for me. It is just that all the words above take longer to speak and the later one is so easy to remember. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7538 From: DeHara Subject: Re: Fwd: [DivineBeingsOfLight] Daily Messages-OT Jean writes: "We are put on this earth to learn to love one another, and when we do, nothing becomes impossible." Greetings All, I enjoy you sharing OT info and have no problem with you sharing. However, I am irritated when the "garbage, ie. header info is also sent. This causes conflict and judgment within me. Now, don't misunderstand me here. I feel your love in desiring to forward spiritual posts. But I that's where my feeling of love stops. When I see all the header garbage that is included, I hear myself in judgment. My mind talk: Why didn't she remove this useless stuff? Doesn't she know that this garbage causes me and all the other readers to waste my time either deleting or scrolling past inches of space. What a waste of space on my hard drive should I want to save it? Doesn't she understand it would be so much simpler if she removed it first? Save all us readers from getting our buttons pushed!! Well, I did what I needed to do and let it go? Nope, just went on to another post which caused me to remember timber? The post re CIM- "turning the other cheek" is not forgiveness, it is forgetting". (snip) Nope, neither def fits for me. Pondering this, I thought back and choose to apply this principle to timber? Neither path, forgiveness or forgetting had worked cause I was still thinking about the past post, right? Then I thought to evaluate the situation. I physically turned my head trying to understand the principle. And in applying it to the situation at hand, I pondered that maybe turning the cheek reflected the opportunity to look at the same situation, only from another direction. Cause when I was "cheeking-it" , I was going right -left, left-right, and so for the. I went back to the post and really "looked at the garbage." Evaluative mind talk: Post is from Web/TV. I have very little experience with posts from this server, but I have a lot of experience with this sender as she is . . .all good stuff. Then why doesn't she get it? Hmmmmmm, maybe she doesn't know she's sending or what we are receiving? Well, (click) Hey, maybe she can't delete it. Well, if that's the case, it's ok. I'd rather get the posts than not but will let it be ok only if she can't help it. . . Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7539 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Luck Zia your thoughts are always so clear and so clearly explained. Thank you. i heard a definition of LUCK once,"When Preparedness Meets Opportunity." love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7540 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Messages As i understand it, we WebTV users can cut & paste, however, so far we have NO idea how to do this, Lorraine is the keyster that taught us a lot about what WebTV can do.I do understand that long header's can certainly be bothersome to many people, and we always try to warn people when there is going to be a long lead in, but a lot of the time the messages are worth the long journey. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7541 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: More Thoughts on Karma JJ wrote: "Next Zia tells us that Karma (I assume negative karma) is wiped clean when we forgive ourselves. Forgiveness releases yourself from guilt and grievances but does not negate karma. It can lead to a faster repayment of it, but does not negate cause and effect. There has not been any negation of cause and effect since the beginning of the universe. Not one example can be cited." Karma is wiped clean by means of balancing the negative with the positive. Only love can do the balancing by accepting or forgiving oneself whom one has really offended when offending someone else. The soul is empowered to decide whether her personality can use forgiveness as a means to compensate for having caused an evil effect in the world of appearance. In other words, an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth is not to be interpreted strictly when it comes to the law of karma. The soul can commute an eye or tooth for something else. Zia also says: "We should remember that in the molecule, with perfect soul connection, in fact union.... what value will judgment have then? Judgment works fine in separation, in union, it is valueless. That's the same as saying oneness by the way. Judgment was but a toy that put the holy son of God in jail, repeating lifetimes of punishment... and who created it, he did... not God." JJ says: "If judgment put the holy Son of God in jail why then did the Holy Son (Jesus) call the Pharisees hypocrites for not using it? The power of judgment will not be laid aside in the molecules. Instead it will be greatly enhanced. In saying this I am not speaking of any type of condemnation, but the true power of judgment as taught by the Christ contains a power of higher vision that allows one to see the path more clearly and to take needed steps in alignment with the Purpose of God." The word judgment has different meanings. JJ has given it two meanings in another post. The word should not be taken out of context and given a meaning which doesn't obviously belong where it is found. "I know many of you have gotten this anti judgment concept from A Course in Miracles, but you cannot give up your power of independent thought to any book or Master. One must always think things through himself to discern the good from the evil for in this lies the power to manifest the true reflection of God that lies within you." True, one must think things through themself to manifest the divine idea. Any teaching must be subjected to examination by the individual themselves before taken in and put into action. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7542 From: Jean Subject: Re: Fwd: [DivineBeingsOfLight] Daily Messages-OT In Response from Youarewhatyoudo...I did not get your name! Sorry! You are right with the web tv system it is hard to delete certain things, I wish I could but it is not a computer, it is through you tv system. All I can tell you is I hate that stuff all the html and such myself, it does take too long, I will continue to forward you those stories separately from this list if you like, there are about 10 to 15 others on this list that asked me too, and I am , but for respect for the others not requesting it I try not to forward too much to the keys list. So if you would like to receive it send me your email separately to timber-roo@webtv.net Have a great day! In light, Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7543 From: Jean Subject: Life Holds Wonderful Dreams - from Jean You have just received an animated greeting card from Jean You'll see the personal greeting by using the following Web location. http://www1.bluemountain.com/cards/box6953g/vdp7wsiektbtbn.htm (Your greeting card will be available for the next 90 days) There is no charge for this service! :) HAVE a good day and have fun! Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7544 From: Rick Audette Subject: [+] The Twelve Principles of Synthesis Watching the developments of off list discussions of how the Gathering of the Lights might be accomplished has led to a growing discomfort in my soul. Looking within, for the cause and remedy, I find I see a better way and herewith present it. Discussions on chapter 29 are, of course, "on topic" for everyone on the list and should not be considered [OT] at any point. Discussions of how we can go about gathering all the lights are a part of the same topic, but would continue on with a life of their own, for a long time. Even those that have chosen to talk about and join the gathering are not completely clear on what the 12 principles entail. The line preceding the list of principles says, "please read with care", and yet we have some that would join while still wishing that some principles could be reworded or eliminated. Others aren't ready to join, but offer their help. It doesn't sit right, that anyone should enter into such a contract, without being fully aware of all the details. I'm all for being among the gathered, but even still, after reading through for the nth time, find myself asking, "does this mean I will have to.....". So, let me make this proposal to all of the Keysters. 1) Discussions on the clarification of terms used in chapter 29 are "on topic" and very necessary. 2) Discussions and plans for the Gathering will also be "On Topic", but will be earmarked in the subject line with [+] (brackets included). Furthermore, let us say that as of this date, 3) nobody is an official member of the gathering, but to become one, a person would have to first read and FULLY understand the principles and objectives set forth and then publicly affirm their choice by stating the principles in the first person (I believe, I desire, I affirm, etc.). 4) By denoting their chosen membership with a symbol [+], on the list of members which I periodically post, they could be drawn from for the formation of working or governing committees which might be needed in the formation of a world wide gathering. The floor is open for discussion. Your Servant, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7545 From: "Adriana Yamane" Subject: Re: Life Holds Wonderful Dreams - from Jean Wow, Jean, A Thousand Birds!That was lovely, thank you. Like a message from the Angels! Love, Adriana Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7546 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Card Jean, what a lovely gift, the card is beautiful, thank you. love, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7547 From: Rick Audette Subject: First principle of synthesis 1. We believe in the equality of men and women, the equal rights of each race and in the sacredness of all life. There are those that will tell you that if life is sacred, you should not eat animals. But then, plants are alive too. And, as we have been taught here, even atoms and sub-atomic particles have life. We eat animals, plants and minerals. We place raw materials in a furnace to refine them into preferred states and bind them into our constructions. Open your eyes and look in any direction and you will see countless billions of little lives that we have whipped into shape to serve our purposes. We separate the wheat from the chaff. You can't take a single step or even take a breath without altering the course of some other life. Can anyone say, that when they went out for a walk today, they did not step on a single ant or crush a blade of grass. How can we treat all life as sacred while at the same time living our own life wreaks such havoc on the little lives around us? What does it really mean, to treat all life as sacred? Each of the 12 principles, when read carefully, will raise many questions that must be answered to the satisfaction of all the would be gathered lights. It will take an open mind to hear the answers. There is much work to be done. To be continued, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7548 From: "Adriana Yamane" Subject: Re: First principle of synthesis Dear Rick, Perhaps this is the meaning of "accepting one's dark side". In Love, Adriana Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7549 From: J J Dewey Subject: Initiating Synthesis Paul... I'm glad to see that we are coming closer to reaching agreement. I'll make just a few comments on the endeavor to promote the 12 Principles of Synthesis. The first thing to note is the difficulty with even a few of us reaching unity on how to proceed with this. This gives you an idea as to why there are no human molecules in existence today, but do not be discouraged. The hour is coming. With personalities the task is almost impossible (or judging by appearance as Paul says), but when we yield to a higher will all things are possible. Someone expressed concern about glamour. This is always a possibility, of course. We are not perfect and glamour and illusion will manifest among various members. This by itself is not a reason to not proceed. I do not have time to lead a new major project at present but if Rick and others desire to initiate a project to promote the principles and unite the groups they should follow their highest light. I will do what I can to assist, but I warn you the project will be a difficult task. There is one item I should add in relation to these principles is that they were written a number of years ago. My nephew and I were brainstorming one day and talking about how the New Age groups seemed to be working for unity, yet they seemed very isolated and much less cooperative than other groups that did not seem "enlightened." At that time I came up with the idea (which I still believe to be inspired) to write synthetic principles that would bring the metaphysical people (and others) together in fuller cooperation. So after that we brainstormed through the night together and the result were these principles. We promoted them for a while but I have been too preoccupied with other things to do them justice. I have since seen them in print in other publications, one guy even presenting them as if he wrote them. So I tell you this now just in case that you do receive some claim from others that someone else wrote them. I do have the copyright on them so they should be legally secure. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7550 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Prussian Education System in America Hi All Sorry I have not been posting much lately, been very busy. During my editing, I ran across a very interesting article from Rick way back (the dinosaur days? hee hee) on Nov. 19, 1998, Post No. 524, and possibly week 5, 6 or 7 in the archives. This post is concerning your current subject of "brainwashing". I think you would find it very interesting. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7551 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Dave Curtis" "Why would God create an illusion of a dualistic world when there is no one to display that illusion to but him/herself?" Hi Dave Consider the possibility that the Creator we know, is but a part of an even larger place with another Creator even larger. Like the mirror within a mirror within a mirror. It's mind boggling, but this is the one I "blew" my own mind with after seeing the mirror effect and suddenly "understood" that which I am not able to put into mere words. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7552 From: Laura Subject: [+?] First principle of synthesis Rick wrote: "We believe in the equality of men and women, the equal rights of each race and in the sacredness of all life. There are those that will tell you that if life is sacred, you should not eat animals. How can we treat all life as sacred while at the same time living our own life wreaks such havoc on the little lives around us? What does it really mean, to treat all life as sacred? Each of the 12 principles, when read carefully, will raise many questions that must be answered to the satisfaction of all the would be gathered lights. It will take an open mind to hear the answers." Okay.. Holding all life as sacred has been misinterpreted lately as meaning to not 'destroy' or use that life as we have been given a right to do, not just as human being but as creatures of the earth and members of the food chain. Holding life as sacred does not mean that you are no longer allowed to eat animals, nor does it then mean that you are no longer allowed to eat plants.It doesn't mean you can't use lumber to build your house and it doesn't mean that you can't own a pet. Holding life as sacred means that you appreciate every breath you take, and all living things around you. It means you give thanks to the creatures who make up your fuel, that you appreciate the spark of divinity in each of them and that you - ultimately - thank the Source of this divinity, this life and this energy and its willingness to share this gift with you. The native American tradition of speaking to animals and asking for nourishment from them before killing them in the hunt is an example of this. Sacredness is respect for all life. Sacredness means that you would never willingly cause an animal undue pain and anguish, it means never torturing a living being (emotionally, mentally or physiologically), and it means expressing an attitude of deep gratitude and thanksgiving for each breath of life in every creature. Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7553 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: Re: [+?] First principle of synthesis Oh! Ka Ma Ma, how is it you know, and have such understanding of such things, yet have no way of knowing, what you know? Your Old Friend, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7554 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Dave writes: "So we all have the illusion that we are separate individuals trying to learn and progress individually, when in reality we are all God? Question then. Why would God create an illusion of a dualistic world when there is no one to display that illusion to but him/herself? If we are all God, then that would suggest we (or I) are alone in this universe. There is nothing out there but us. Sounds awfully lonely..what's the point of existence?" Hi Dave and everyone, God has not created illusion. We did with our rational mind. Illusion is not but a thought, a wrong thought in the human mind. There is not but God in the universe. We as well as every being are God. In that perspective there is nothing but us as there is nothing but God in the universe. However in us as in God is contained all other beings in existence. God is alone and not alone; we are alone and not alone. God is one and many; we are one and many. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7555 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Paul Yu writes: "God has not created illusion. We did with our rational mind. Illusion is not but a thought, a wrong thought in the human mind." God didn't create illusion, but we are all one. If we are all one, then we are all God. If God didn't create illusion, but we did, then that would suggest we are all separate. What's probably going through your mind right now, is that I am not open enough to the idea, and I'm not ready to accept that all is one. That is incorrect. I'm perfectly willing to accept that we all were one at some point in the distant past, and probably will be again in the distant future. Right now, in our plane of existence, some are one on the spiritual level, and others (most) are separate. All are separate physically. IMHO, it is a waste of time to try and convince myself otherwise, and it's counter productive. If I ignore the differences between good and evil, and I try pretend that all is well no matter what, then I will become a useless member of society, and utterly useless to the Brotherhood of Light. Why? Because I would have no motivation to help you or anyone else. Evil exists, and that motivates me to do Good to counter it. If they are one, then why should I do anything? We live in a world of dualities. The sooner one accepts that, the sooner they can make the best of what they have. Not to say, however, that oneness cannot be obtained on a mental level. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7556 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Message from Glenys. I received this letter from Glenys a couple of days ago, and I would like to share it with the group. I hope it is as inspiring to the rest of you, as it was for me. Glenys Says: "Darling Dave, I haven't been able to log on because I've been preoccupied with Rangi but I was thrilled at your email when I did see it. "First for you - that you finally made it to NJ. "Then for Rangi because of what you did for her. You had no way of knowing but the scene you described with the healing waters was identical to the visualisation she uses for her healing - right down to the green coloured water! "I printed your email off to take to her in hospital and she wept and wept at your description and the part you played along with me. She thanks you from the bottom of her heart and the heights of her soul. And so do I :-) "I'm rushing now but if you like, you can post this confirmation of the work you did to the list. It could only serve to increase peoples' faith that the service they perform while visiting NJ is important." Glenys, if you ever get a chance to read this, I want you to know that my hopes a prayers are with you and Rangi right now. Keysters, I think this should be proof enough that the work we do in NJ is important. Probably more important than we can imagine, even now. If you haven't made it yet, be persistent. You'll make it eventually. Those of you who have gone to NJ to help in Rangi's healing process, thank you dearly. With Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7557 From: J J Dewey Subject: God and Illusion Paul writes: "God has not created illusion. We did with our rational mind. Illusion is not but a thought, a wrong thought in the human mind." "There is not but God in the universe. We as well as every being are God. In that perspective there is nothing but us as there is nothing but God in the universe. However in us as in God is contained all other beings in existence. God is alone and not alone; we are alone and not alone. God is one and many; we are one and many." The only place I know this basic idea (that God did not create the illusion) is taught is in A Course in Miracles, but the trouble is I believe the point the author was trying to make has itself produced illusion. Let us examine Paul's first statement: "God has not created illusion. We did with our rational mind. Illusion is not but a thought, a wrong thought in the human mind." Question: Who created our minds? Answer: God Question: Are we one with God in the true reality? Answer: Yes Question: Therefore who created the illusion? Answer: God Paul says "There is not but God in the universe." Therefore, even the illusion which is real to us (who are also one with God and creators with God) would have to be part of the creation and plan of God. If all things are created by God then the illusion also is his creation and responsibility no matter what anyone has written to the contrary. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-11/7558 From: J J Dewey Subject: Chapter Thirty CHAPTER THIRTY THE MOLECULAR COMMITMENT Copyright by J J Dewey A major step in achieving union is the establishment of a bonded relationship through a covenant of dedication. This relationship corresponds to the covalent bonds that are made between atoms within atomic molecules. Without the bonding power of commitment there can be no creation or cohesion. There will eventually be three levels of involvement in the Molecular Order. Eventually, all organizations will become Molecular. Businesses, political organizations, civic groups, virtually anything with an organizational structure can be Molecular on some level. And why will this evolution take place? The same reason that all peoples are progressing toward democracy - because it works. Where there is freedom there is abundance, and human lives will gravitate to it. The Molecular Order gives the lowest member as much freedom to initiate as the leader of the whole. This order creates an atmosphere of freedom where new ideas can be implemented, and the common people will love it! Therefore, the lightest level of commitment in the Molecular Order will eventually be the commitment to the Plan because it works. This is not a commitment that we can ask for now. It will be some time before all the practical applications of the Molecular Order are seen by the general public. On the other hand, because the Molecular Order has not been demonstrated "on earth as it is in heaven" there is created, at this point in history, a great opportunity. This is the opportunity to be an initiate. The Christ said: "Many are called, but few are chosen." In this statement, he made reference to the two basic groups who compose any true spiritual organization. These are the "called" and the "chosen." Where "chosen" is used in the scriptures it can often be accurately translated as "They who have chosen." (Or those who see themselves as Decision). What they have chosen is, of course, the Higher Self, or the Spirit of God, or a truth verified by that Spirit. To be called is to be educated through experience and this must take place before a person is even aware enough to go through a process of choosing. An ideal may seem wonderful to a large number of people. If they do not have to do any labor to manifest it, they will support it until the moon turns blue; but if they are called to actually labor in the vineyard of the Master, they are then truly awakened to the reality of the work involved. After having ample opportunity to labor, they then obtain an awareness as to whether they want to truly choose to work for the ideal on a full time basis with a total commitment. Therefore, the first level of commitment in the Spiritual Molecule we seek to establish is the "calling." THE CALLING He who wants to participate in the calling will believe that the idea of the Molecule is attractive to him and agrees to support the Twelve Principles of Synthesis. He dedicates all his energies toward the union and equality of all men and women and seeks to prepare the world for the Coming of Christ in whatever way he interprets this event. This person sees himself not as an isolated unit, but as a part of a greater whole, and realizes to some extent that all men and women are interrelated and interdependent. He desires to be one of the Lights to the world and seeks to extend a helping hand to all those who are in need. He seeks to advance in the Light by receiving from other Lights and he seeks to help others advance by sharing his knowledge with others. There are two basic mantras that Molecular members are urged to recite. The first is The Song of the 144,000. The Song of the 144,000 We thank you Father that you have revealed to us your protective universal light; that within this light is complete protection from all destructive forces; that the Holy Spirit of Your Presence permeates us in this light, and wherever we will the light to descend. We thank you Father that you fill us with your protective fires of love; that within this love is complete protection from all destructive thoughts and feelings; that the consciousness of Christ is lifted up in us in this love, and wherever we will the love to be enflamed. We thank you Father that You are in us and we are in You; that through us Your Will is sent forth on wings of Power; that Your Purpose is accomplished on earth as it is in heaven; that through us Your Light and Love and Power is manifest to all the Sons and Daughters of Mankind. The second major mantra was revealed through Alice A. Bailey. This is called The Great Invocation and is said to be uttered by the Christ himself on a daily basis. THE GREAT INVOCATION From the point of Light within the Mind of God Let light stream forth into the minds of men. Let Light descend on Earth. *** From the point of Love within the heart of God Let love stream forth into the hearts of men. May Christ return to Earth. *** From the center where the Will of God is known Let purpose guide the little wills of men - The purpose which the Masters know and serve. *** From the center which we call the race of men Let the Plan of Love and Light work out And may it seal the door where evil dwells. *** Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth. *** Commitment of the Disciple The basic commitment of the disciple is simple. He or she is willing to entirely yield the will of the personality to the higher will of Spirit. This is easy to say but hard to do until the focus of attention has made a definite shift. Then after the shift has been made keeping the focus there becomes easier and easier until it then becomes simple and natural. When this occurs then the disciple would not consider going back to he will of the personality any more than the prodigal son, after he has returned to the Father, would consider returning to eating with the hogs. It is advantageous to put the commitment necessary into words as a point of focus and understanding, but also important that the words not be seen as dogmatic or written in stone. Nevertheless, the basic spirit of the commitment as written is necessary for the creation of successful molecules. The Pledge of the Disciple I commit myself to join you my brothers and sisters as a follower of the Spirit of God and as a disciple of Christ/God in totally dedicating myself to the building of the Kingdom of God on the earth, and preparing the way with the eye of faith for the appearance of the Son of God. To aid in this, I covenant to do all in my power to assist in the materialization of the Molecular Organization on the Earth. I covenant to be one with you by ever seeking the One Spirit of God with you and resolve to solve all differences which may cause separation by seeking an answer and confirmation through the Spirit with you. I covenant to channel all my energies of sex, money and power toward union and not separateness, and consecrate myself and all these energies toward the purpose of God to create the Union of Souls and to establish the Kingdom of God on the Earth. AUMAN. THE COVENANT OF UNION The key to union and the most important part of the covenant is the second paragraph: I covenant to be one with you by ever seeking the One Spirit of God with you and resolve to solve all differences which may cause separation by seeking an answer and confirmation through the Spirit with you. There will be occasions when people in the Molecule will be divided. If there is any threat of separation, they are committed to resolve the problem by seeking the Spirit of God or Soul contact. If all seek with a sincere heart, then all will receive the same answer at the same time. In seeking this it will help to remember an important statement from A Course in Miracles: "The truth is true and nothing else is true." One of the key signs or indicators that a person is out of harmony with the Soul is that he will resist seeking Soul contact with his brother or sister. He may insist that he has had all the Soul contact in the world as an individual, but he will not want to pray or meditate with his brother to become one through the Soul energy. The reason for this resistance is the lower self feels threatened by union, for the closer we are to the Union of Souls, the less the power the lower self has over us, and the lower self strongly desires to remain in the driver's seat. A key to discerning Soul contact is this. The Spirit only directly sends a message that is for the good of the group or the good of the whole. If a person says that he has received information from his Soul in relation to guidance with his job, personal finances, marriage, children or other personal affairs, then you can bet that the message did not come from the Soul unless the success of the personal incident was of prime importance to the group good or has an influence beyond that of his personal desires. Almost without exception, this type of individual guidance comes from the Higher Mind or Superconscious. The Higher Mind is like a great computer that has access to all the knowledge of your present and past lives and will often assist us in making decisions. Its messages are very accurate, but not infallible. Other messages come from the astral body, which is always in conflict with Soul direction. The astral light is a mirror reflection of Soul light so it gets everything backwards. Nevertheless, the information still looks like the real thing, just like a mirror. It takes the discriminating mind and intuition to separate the real from the illusion. The Soul, on the other hand, as well as the Masters who are Soul-infused, fall back on the principle that we only learn mastery in our individual lives by solving our own problems. Therefore, the Soul waits until we have some group consciousness before it will even work directly with us. Let us remember that the Soul only gives revelations that will add to the greater livingness of the group or the whole, and the united group life is entitled to Soul contact as if it were one life. When the group achieves this contact together they will experience a tremendous unity, peace and joy. It will seem so natural that all will marvel that so many are so dominated by attention on the personality and miss this more abundant life. There is always a point of truth that is seen by the eyes of the Soul that will bring oneness to any group if they are willing to humble themselves, rise above pride of the ego and seek the God Within. Generally, after several attempts union will be reached. If it is not, it will be found that those who disagree with what others have discovered through Soul confirmation will generally be the same ones disagreeing on other occasions. If unanimous agreement is impossible, the majority should rule unless the leader of the Molecule obtains a revelation to the contrary. It should be noted, that if such a revelation is received, all those who are capable of Soul contact are entitled to confirmation from within to the correctness or incorrectness of the teaching of the leader. It is entirely possible that in the beginning not all may achieve Soul contact and obtain the same answer, but those in the group who do feel the Spirit will be very unified and at peace with their answer. Those who have not made contact will be somewhat disgruntled and will often (but not always) have differing answers, even from each other. When the time comes that all members of the Molecule have definitely achieved Soul contact, even once, then the probability of the whole group receiving a uniform answer through the Spirit is high. This process must be perfected, however, to fulfill the prophecy: They shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion. Isa. 52:8 Seeing eye-to-eye will not happen by merely lazily letting the attention center on the personality, but it will require an act of will for all involved. Each must use the power of freewill of the life energy to direct the consciousness toward the Soul. This will require an effort to ignore the lower personality so the Soul will reign triumphant. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7559 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: [+?] First principle of synthesis Laura writes: "Sacredness means that you would never willingly cause an animal undue pain and anguish, it means never torturing a living being (emotionally, mentally or physiologically), and it means expressing an attitude of deep gratitude and thanksgiving for each breath of life in every creature." You explain well, Laura, the sacredness of life. Life is sacred because all forms of life are one sharing the same life. In living out this one life all forms of life cooperate with each other to manifest the hidden abundance of life. Since life in manifestation goes through a cycle of birth, growth-decline and death any of these aspects of the cycle is as sacred as the one life itself which these are embodying for the sake of expression. It is not so much the physical act as the evil intent of killing that renders the act bad by our moral standard. As long as we have respect and love for life any type of cooperation in either a positive or a negative manner between all forms of life is conducive to the overall evolution of life as a whole. It is the restricted specific considerations about human acts related to the life of animals that are veiling the broader view of the big picture of life itself. Ultimately will-to-love is the only moral standard by which human acts are to be evaluated. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7560 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell I wrote: "God has not created illusion. We did with our rational mind. Illusion is not but a thought, a wrong thought in the human mind." Dave wrote: "God didn't create illusion, but we are all one. If we are all one, then we are all God. If God didn't create illusion, but we did, then that would suggest we are all separate. What's probably going through your mind right now, is that I am not open enough to the idea, and I'm not ready to accept that all is one. That is incorrect. I'm perfectly willing to accept that we all were one at some point in the distant past, and probably will be again in the distant future. Right now, in our plane of existence, some are one on the spiritual level, and others (most) are separate. All are separate physically. IMHO, it is a waste of time to try and convince myself otherwise, and it's counter productive." Illusion is a belief and not something out there. You believe that things out there are separate. It is altogether a different matter whether things are indeed separate. If you do believe things are separate, don't force yourself to not believe it because that would not do you any good. All seem to be separate physically. A scientist may give a different explanation of this apparent phenomenon. What appears to be is not necessarily true in reality. "If I ignore the differences between good and evil, and I try pretend that all is well no matter what, then I will become a useless member of society, and utterly useless to the Brotherhood of Light. Why? Because I would have no motivation to help you or anyone else. Evil exists, and that motivates me to do Good to counter it. If they are one, then why should I do anything?" If you see the differences between good and evil don't pretend that all is well. Be natural and allow yourself to feel the way you do. If because of evil you feel motivated to help someone else that is fine. It is true if good and evil appeared to be one you would not be motivated to do anything. Without good and evil there would be no activities and everything would come to a standstill. "We live in a world of dualities. The sooner one accepts that, the sooner they can make the best of what they have. Not to say, however, that oneness cannot be obtained on a mental level." One cannot ignore the fact that they live in a world of dualities. Since the world of dualities is a world of pain and suffering one would want to liberate themself by penetrating realities of duality and envision the oneness right behind the appearances of things. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7561 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: God and Illusion JJ writes: "The only place I know this basic idea (that God did not create the illusion) is taught is in A Course in Miracles, but the trouble is I believe the point the author was trying to make has itself produced illusion." For your information, JJ, I have never read A Course in Miracles. But that is beside the point. I don't quote anyone anyway. Illusion as a wrong interpretation of reality is essentially lack, devoid of truth. God is truth or reality. God does not create lack of anything. No matter how real the wrong thought, illusion, appears to us it is devoid of truth or reality. God's creation consists of forms into which God breathes spirit adorning them with consciousness. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7562 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Paul Yu: writes: "Illusion is a belief and not something out there. You believe that things out there are separate. It is altogether a different matter whether things are indeed separate. If you do believe things are separate, don't force yourself to not believe it because that would not do you any good." Agreed. However, I can't read your mind, and I don't know how you look in the mirror every morning. All I know about you is what you post on this list. In fact, if I were to think of a number between 1 and 10,000,000, I doubt you, or anyone else, could guess that number perfectly every time. In fact, the chances against anyone guessing right just once is astronomical. The reason for all of this, is because we have separate minds. I cannot read your mind unless you allow it, and vice versa. If we're really all one, then none of these things should present a problem to anyone. "All seem to be separate physically. A scientist may give a different explanation of this apparent phenomenon. What appears to be is not necessarily true in reality." I agree with this completely. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have a different sense of 'reality'. "If you see the differences between good and evil don't pretend that all is well. Be natural and allow yourself to feel the way you do. If because of evil you feel motivated to help someone else that is fine." What I understand from you, however, is that if because of Good I feel compelled to go out and kill as many people as I can, then that is fine, too? The belief that all of this is part of some great wonderful plan seems to take away from peoples sense of responsibility. 'Oh, I killed that person. That's ok, though. It's all part of the grand plan.' That attitude is very self-destructive. "One cannot ignore the fact that they live in a world of dualities. Since the world of dualities is a world of pain and suffering one would want to liberate themself by penetrating realities of duality and envision the oneness right behind the appearances of things." There is a law in science I learned about not too long ago. It states, "Nature, left to itself, will ultimately move towards a destructive end." They came up with this after they tried for years to replicate the beginning of evolution. When they tried to 'bond' those amino acids together that ultimately formed life, they found in a lab, that they naturally break apart. If I do whatever I 'feel' like doing at the time, ignoring what I believe to be right or wrong, I will ultimately move towards a destructive end myself. As would most other people. What I and others achieve, comes only through effort. Sometimes I become discouraged with my spiritual progress, and feel that I should just give up. Should I? Of course not. If I did that, I would go nowhere. Those amino acids bonded together to form life, because it was Gods Will that they should do so. We should be thankful that he did not decide to just do what he felt like doing. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7563 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Paul Yu wrote: "All seem to be separate physically. A scientist may give a different explanation of this apparent phenomenon. What appears to be is not necessarily true in reality." As a reasonable approximation of a scientist I feel I should jump in here. It should be stated that I do not have a degree or much formal schooling, however, I have studied much on my own. I have found nothing in science that would tend to state we are all one. In fact, we cannot be, physically, one. And since science deals with what can be measured and studied, the metaphysical does not enter into the equation (it cannot be quantified or studied, thus there is nothing to put into an equation). Now, I feel I must invoke Occam's Razor. Which basically states that all things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. The simplest answer is that we are not one, physically. As for the rest, I am not qualified to speak on those matters, since I am speaking as a scientist. Now, if you should have any scientific references I would be happy to read and comment on them. I may not be able to say much if it's too cutting-edge as my Quantum Mechanics isn't too great yet. But I would be willing to give it a go. Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7564 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell From: Paul Yu: "Illusion is a belief and not something out there. You believe that things out there are separate. It is altogether a different matter whether things are indeed separate. If you do believe things are separate, don't force yourself to not believe it because that would not do you any good." Dave: "Agreed. However, I can't read your mind, and I don't know how you look in the mirror every morning. All I know about you is what you post on this list. In fact, if I were to think of a number between 1 and 10,000,000, I doubt you, or anyone else, could guess that number perfectly every time. In fact, the chances against anyone guessing right just once is astronomical. The reason for all of this, is because we have separate minds. I cannot read your mind unless you allow it, and vice versa. If we're really all one, then none of these things should present a problem to anyone." Paul Yu now: We are one in ultimate reality. Which is not to say that we would appear as one as well. Being and appearing are two different things. Paul Yu: "If you see the differences between good and evil don't pretend that all is well. Be natural and allow yourself to feel the way you do. If because of evil you feel motivated to help someone else that is fine." Dave: "What I understand from you, however, is that if because of Good I feel compelled to go out and kill as many people as I can, then that is fine, too? The belief that all of this is part of some great wonderful plan seems to take away from peoples sense of responsibility. 'Oh, I killed that person. That's ok, though. It's all part of the grand plan.' That attitude is very self-destructive." Paul Yu now: Who in their right mind would feel compelled to go out and kill as many people as they can? I don't think this is a good example. A plan concerns an overall project and all the people involved in it. A plan does not necessarily make the individuals robots. Any plan would have to take into consideration the human factor of changeability and freedom of choice in particular situations. No plan would allow killing for no sufficient reason. Paul Yu: "One cannot ignore the fact that they live in a world of dualities. Since the world of dualities is a world of pain and suffering one would want to liberate themself by penetrating realities of duality and envision the oneness right behind the appearances of things." Dave: "There is a law in science I learned about not too long ago. It states, "Nature, left to itself, will ultimately move towards a destructive end." They came up with this after they tried for years to replicate the beginning of evolution. When they tried to 'bond' those amino acids together that ultimately formed life, they found in a lab, that they naturally break apart." "If I do whatever I 'feel' like doing at the time, ignoring what I believe to be right or wrong, I will ultimately move towards a destructive end myself. As would most other people. What I and others achieve, comes only through effort. Sometimes I become discouraged with my spiritual progress, and feel that I should just give up. Should I? Of course not. If I did that, I would go nowhere. Those amino acids bonded together to form life, because it was Gods Will that they should do so. We should be thankful that he did not decide to just do what he felt like doing." Paul Yu now: You cannot ignore what you believe to be right or wrong. You have to follow your beliefs to naturally live your life. If you feel that you should not give up when discouraged with your spiritual progress try your best not to give up. Not to give up in this case would be regarded as the natural thing to do. We apply the same principle of "following your truth" in different situations. We might even do just the opposite in two completely different situations while applying the same principle. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7565 From: J J Dewey Subject: Wrong Interpretation? Paul states: "Illusion as a wrong interpretation of reality is essentially lack, devoid of truth. God is truth or reality. God does not create lack of anything. No matter how real the wrong thought, illusion, appears to us it is devoid of truth or reality." But who is making this wrong interpretation of reality??? Is it not a part of us that is an extension of God and therefore God is making such interpretation? Besides, I thought that you teach that there is no right or wrong, thus there can be no "wrong" interpretation. If we are all correct why attempt to set us straight??? Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7566 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Paul Yu wrote: "All seem to be separate physically. A scientist may give a different explanation of this apparent phenomenon. What appears to be is not necessarily true in reality." Travis writes: "As a reasonable approximation of a scientist I feel I should jump in here. It should be stated that I do not have a degree or much formal schooling, however, I have studied much on my own. I have found nothing in science that would tend to state we are all one. In fact, we cannot be, physically, one. And since science deals with what can be measured and studied, the metaphysical does not enter into the equation (it cannot be quantified or studied, thus there is nothing to put into an equation)" "Now, I feel I must invoke Ocham's Razor. Which basically states that all things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. The simplest answer is that we are not one, physically. As for the rest, I am not qualified to speak on those matters, since I am speaking as a scientist. Now, if you should have any scientific references I would be happy to read and comment on them. I may not be able to say much if it's too cutting-edge as my Quantum Mechanics isn't too great yet. But I would be willing to give it a go." Hi Travis, I was not pretending to give a scientific explanation of the metaphysical oneness. All I was saying is the there are different angles to look at any one object or concept. I am not a scientist myself. What comes to mind is a picture where all waves or atoms in nature make up a web in motion so much so that when one atom moves all atoms move in unison. No particles or energies in the universe are totally isolated from each other or the rest. If this phenomenon is demonstrated scientifically the scientific oneness would be quite different from our ordinary observation of nature. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7567 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Taste Of Russell As everyone MUST know i am no scientist! But i'm weighing in here anyway, as i was taught the oneness principle it meant we are all made up of the same components as the planets, the stars, and on and on......., therefore we are basically all one. Not being of scientific mind, it resonated within me, however, i have never had a problem being proved WRONG! It happens too often for it to bother me. Dave, thank you so much for the update on our beloved Glenys and her darling friend, they are both in our hearts and prayers daily. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7568 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Wrong Interpretation? The reason why we think in terms of duality and oneness is for clarity. If duality is defined as oneness or vice versa we would be confused. By the same token when we refer to God as oneness and ourselves as duality we are speaking of God and us in different terms. Once set these terms are to be stick to unless a revision is agreed upon by those using these terms. You can say illusion is created by man in duality or even God in duality, but you would be confusing everyone by saying that illusion is created by God or man in oneness. Thus when we refer to God we mean God and not God's manifestation; when we refer to the manifestation of God we mean God's manifestation and not God. There is no right or wrong in oneness. In separate duality such as our experiences however there is the belief in right or wrong. Oneness is the coin and duality the two faces of the coin. Refer to oneness when the issue is oneness; refer to duality when the issue is duality. But sorry, swapping back and forth behind the back is not allowed. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7569 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: God and Illusion Greetings to All, Have been off the air for a couple of days, and have so enjoyed all the brilliant posts to date. Halleluyah to Rangi, and such love and thank you to Glenys and Dave... well done!! Have just loved the discussions on oneness, truth, duality, judgment, and most of all on the illusion. Paul your ability to put into words my thoughts and what I experience in consciousness just cause my heart to soar. The best I can put forward here is that 'the illusion' seems to be the veil spoken of by Christ (?) in that famous saying of 'looking through a glass darkly'... am certain someone will know its correct quotation. This I see as occurring using the subconscious programming based upon the use of the cerebral cortex, devoid of soul input (separation from one's self). Thus the thinking process re-engages illusionary thought patterns... the darkness veiling true reality. In soul union, consciousness beyond the astral, and pure physical brain repetitive 'chatter', becomes the pictures, intuition, and 'Master' guidance directing one very clearly. Once 'union' is achieved, questioning of this direction and input from/through the soul seems to simply not occur. Perhaps some need a thousand 'proofs' and some need only one, and then their trust is supreme of this union within. From that point one might say all thinking is done with the heart (soul). I am certain Alice Bailey in questioning the 'appearance' of Dwjal Kuhl, and her ultimate acceptance, never questioned this guidance again. It was as though that energy were a direct aspect of herself, known and trusted henceforth. Judgment dissolved into 'contemplating' to gain 'understanding' free of any need for judgment, when thinking with the soul. In fact it seems that one turns about 180 degrees and views life through the eye/s of the soul. It seems to see very clearly 'what is' through the eyes of compassion that seem free of judgment. Surely free will has given us the opportunity to 'believe' we could be separate but a belief does not make it true in reality... it simply clouds the reality... thus that darkness, and seemingly figures enacting the belief in separation in that darkness. When that 'dark glass' is removed, we will indeed look upon God's creation. Paul Yu: "Illusion as a wrong interpretation of reality is essentially lack, devoid of truth. God is truth or reality. God does not create lack of anything. No matter how real the wrong thought, illusion, appears to us it is devoid of truth or reality. God's creation consists of forms into which God breathes spirit adorning them with consciousness." Thank you Paul for putting this so simply, and creating such a beautiful picture at the same time. And then JJ states: "But who is making this wrong interpretation of reality??? Is it not a part of us that is an extension of God and therefore God is making such interpretation? Besides, I thought that you teach that there is no right or wrong, thus there can be no "wrong" interpretation. If we are all correct why attempt to set us straight???" When I look at the physical body, we can use the brain with no connection or 'heart' or 'soul/spirit/God'. The brain on its own without the higher consciousness seems to run a program lodged in the subconscious (belief systems) on automatic. When we connect with the 'soul' for some time we have two different inputs with which to deal. As we clear away the 'illusionary belief systems from the subconscious' then we obtain soul union, allowing us to see the 'true reality' as it is and intended (created) by God. I just love the coin of oneness, and the two sides of duality. Beautiful picture... heads or tails?? or perhaps I'll just take the coin!! Uh oh, would that be the end of creation??? In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7570 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: The new group I have reservations about participating in the new group. I don't know most of the people who might choose to participate, and so don't trust that it will not turn into just another organization. Granted the Charter on which it is based is sound but like anything it depends on how people choose to interpret and implement it. The sources of the world's great religions were pure but we know how much they have been distorted over time. If the members do not have and maintain soul contact then there is great risk attached, particularly to the misuse of power. I have seen many an individual who is initially well-meaning and many a group start with good intentions, only to lose their way and become corrupted. On the other hand if the members do have soul contact, is such a group even necessary? Because they will act in accord in any case and projects etc can be put to the List we already have, and people will check with their soul as to whether participation is appropriate. Having not long left a bureaucracy with its meetings, agendas, committees, sub-committees, sub-sub committees etc in which very little was accomplished for the people they were designed to serve, I am finding all the jargon associated with it sickening. No doubt I'll get better but right now give me the freedom to unite with others in a way that naturally and organically develops in the fullness of time rather than one that is force fed and grows too quickly without a solid foundation. As in gardening, PREPARATION of the soil (i.e the stuff that is usually not noticed) is essential if the RESULT (i.e. the stuff that is noticed, the flowers) are to reach their full glory and ENDURE. I know many of us on the List consider our whole lives have been a preparation for where we are now. We are keen to sow the seed and get the results. But lets not just sow any old seed. Lets envisage the kind of garden we really want to have when it comes to maturity. No point planting daisy seeds just because they are readily available or its the right season for them, when what you really want in your heart of hearts is garden of roses. It is not that I don't applaud the initiative shown, I'm just not ready for it myself. And I am satisfied with the way things are going on the current List, continuing to get a great deal out of JJ's teachings and to share what I discover with people around me. My own thoughts have been running along the lines of seeing if the informal group of friends I am part of (about 100 strong, which meet weekly in smaller 'molecules' of about 12, and have done for over 15 years - although my own involvement started 6 years ago) might wish to unite in some way with JJ and the Keysters. Certainly the two groups are unified in the way we think about things. As to how people put their thoughts and ideas into practice in life, I find it hard to tell from posts alone. Thanks for listening. Love Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7571 From: "Rapter" Subject: The Little Voice Today I remembered something that happened a number of weeks ago. While I was about my usual business I heard a small quiet voice speak to me. The voice stated that he was the Father, the voice then went on to say that he was going to teach me Obedience - this statement shocked me because it is a lesson my will or lower nature would fight, although my mind is willing. The voice, though quiet had a very strong impact. I felt like God was about to send me into spiritual 'boot camp' and He was going to be the Sgt. Major. Anyway, the funny thing is I forgot all about the voice a little while after. When I remembered the voice again - it was quiet surprising to me that I could have forgotten something so significant. I'm sharing this with you now because if I don't I'll probably forget it tomorrow. There seems to be a part of our nature's continually engaging in a type of self censorship! It's quiet remarkable when you become conscious of its effect. Keith Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7572 From: J J Dewey Subject: Straight Answers Paul says "You can say illusion is created by man in duality or even God in duality, but you would be confusing everyone by saying that illusion is created by God or man in oneness." Since everything began with God in oneness then the duality had to spring from God in His oneness. To say that duality was created by something apart from God is to say that there is something else out there that is not God doing some creating. This of course cannot be true for all things come from God even duality, especially duality. Paul continues: "Thus when we refer to God we mean God and not God's manifestation; when we refer to the manifestation of God we mean God's manifestation and not God." So are you saying that God is not omnipresent but exists in some location apart and separate from manifestation? Paul: "There is no right or wrong in oneness. In separate duality such as our experiences however there is the belief in right or wrong." This does not answer my question. My question to you is why do you take positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list when you claim to follow this oneness idea, or do you feel that you have not reached it yet yourself? Also you did not answer my other question which was: "But who is making this wrong interpretation of reality??? Is it not a part of us that is an extension of God and therefore God is making such interpretation?" Let me rephrase it: Something obviously made or created duality which includes this world and universe in which we find ourselves. You say God did not do it. If God did not do it then something that was not even created by God did it. Who created this "thing" out there that's running around creating everything playing tricks on us? Now you can't say it is our minds because we, including our minds, are part of God's creation still making God responsible for it all. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7573 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Straight Answers I said: "You can say illusion is created by man in duality or even God in duality, but you would be confusing everyone by saying that illusion is created by God or man in oneness." JJ writes: "Since everything began with God in oneness then the duality had to spring from God in His oneness. To say that duality was created by something apart from God is to say that there is something else out there that is not God doing some creating. This of course cannot be true for all things come from God even duality, especially duality." Paul Yu: As duality is from oneness everything that is dual is ultimately from oneness. However illusion, as lack of truth, can only come from duality and from oneness as the source of all. Paul continues: "Thus when we refer to God we mean God and not God's manifestation; when we refer to the manifestation of God we mean God's manifestation and not God." JJ: "So are you saying that God is not omnipresent but exists in some location apart and separate from manifestation?" Paul Yu: Manifestation of God is that by which God is manifested or God in manifestation. God has to be present in his manifestation or else manifestation would cease to be. I said: "There is no right or wrong in oneness. In separate duality such as our experiences however there is the belief in right or wrong." JJ: "This does not answer my question. My question to you is why do you take positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list when you claim to follow this oneness idea, or do you feel that you have not reached it yet yourself?" Paul Yu: I merely talk about ideas and engage in metaphysical discussions. I have never critically commented on the rightness or wrongness of people's positions. I have never launched personal attacks or passed negative remarks and I have never talked about what I have achieved. JJ: "Also you did not answer my other question which was: "But who is making this wrong interpretation of reality??? Is it not a part of us that is an extension of God and therefore God is making such interpretation?" "Let me rephrase it:" "Something obviously made or created duality which includes this world and universe in which we find ourselves. You say God did not do it. If God did not do it then something that was not even created by God did it. Who created this "thing" out there that's running around creating everything playing tricks on us? Now you can't say it is our minds because we, including our minds, are part of God's creation still making God responsible for it all." Paul Yu: Your reasoning logically leads to the conclusion that since good and evil come from the oneness of God, evil has to directly come from God. This is simply negating the concept of duality. God and his manifestation are the primeval duality. From this duality come all dualities of manifested forms. It is essentially correct to say all is God but with some qualification. To say that God, the source of all, acts to create evil or illusion without participation by humans, as is the case, is not speaking with precision and clarity. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7574 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell "Now, if you should have any scientific references I would be happy to read and comment on them. I may not be able to say much if it's too cutting-edge as my Quantum Mechanics isn't too great yet. But I would be willing to give it a go." Travis From what I read of "cutting edge" science, it would seem to me that those farthest out on the edge also tend to be great philosophers as well. Science is beginning to see that there is really no separation in matter itself. Any solidity in the universe is only an illusion produced because of the observer and the observed being in sync, vibration wise. All are harmonic waves, subdivisions of the One wave. The reality of this is known and proven and is witnessed by some of the little known patents which are on file at the Patent Office. We now have machines that can do things that only "psychics" could do before. NASA has equipment that can read the life signs and thoughts of astronauts, even when they are outside of normal radio communication and that works a speeds faster than light. The machine picks up the astronaut's "vibes" from a photograph of him and works, no matter how far away he is. The astronaut and the photo are one, even if they appear to be separated by millions of miles. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7575 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: OT - Rangi Update Dear Keysters, Thank you, Dave, for posting my comments on your work in NJ. I'm sure it made a huge difference to the prognosis for Rangi, along with all the other prayers and light work offered on her behalf by many people, including members of the Keys List and NZ Synthesis Group. I have no doubt that a miracle has taken place. Just a few days ago, Rangi was diagnosed as having pancreatic cancer with a life expectancy of three to four months at best. However, neither of us believed that her death was inevitable and I resolved to do everything I could to change the probable outcome of her condition. This included seeking advice from JJ (who has been wonderful, by the way), encouraging people to pray and to have faith that she would live and keeping all those who were convinced that she was going to die away from her. (You can imagine how unpopular I was with some people!). I never once wavered in my faith that she had it within her power to make a decision to recover and I saw my role as her sister and friend was to do everything I could to facilitate that decision by doing my best to increase her options. I constantly challenged her team of doctors although they were adamant that their diagnosis was correct and I definitely got the impression that sometimes they wished it was me lying there semi-conscious and compliant, and more importantly, silent! However, it was the medical registrar of the hospital who was somewhat muted yesterday when he told me that they were wrong after all - that Rangi had developed a huge cyst which was filled with fluid and pressing on her internal organs. Their guess was that it had developed as a result of a bout of pancreatitis (not that Rangi had ever had one to her knowledge) and while she would still need an operation to drain it, it was extremely unlikely that she would die. (Today's theory is that they don't know what caused it and she may not need an operation.) I was as compassionate as possible in my reaction to the doctors who were extremely confused and bemused at their 'misdiagnosis' because I'm not certain that they did get it wrong. I think it's entirely possible, even probable, that Rangi did have cancer and was on her way out but that the Father responded to the prayers and pleas for her life. I think the likely scenario is that the cancer started to clear and the cyst formed to assist the process. It's hard to understand how she could have a 5cm cancer one day and a cyst the size of a football three days later unless there was something else going on. So thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart for all your support. I know a lot of people remembered Rangi and, in a way, it's unfair to single out individuals. But I would be remiss if I failed to thank JJ, Dave and Mindy, in particular, for their loving support. And, of course, the NZ SG. I have one other comment to make. If I had listened to all those who advised me to accept the inevitable as the highest good for Rangi, I believe Rangi would be dead now. Of course, one must have an overall acceptance of the will of God in all matters. But we are told that God's mind can be changed and this is where one must use discernment. When my mother developed cancer three years ago, I knew it was her time to pass on and used the months preceding her death to help her prepare for that inevitability by helping her to work through her issues and deal with unfinished business. I'm sure this played a big part in her peaceful and happy death. On the other hand, I felt that Rangi's death need not be inevitable and 'stormed heaven' on her behalf - with an apparently happy result. I truly believe that there is a season for everything - a time to fight for someone and a time to let them go. Please consider this if you're ever in a similar situation and well meaning people presume to tell you to accept things as they are. You could be denying your loved one life saving assistance and support. In Rangi's case, it was clear that her higher self had decided to move her on to another level of experience because she had achieved all she could within the limitations she had established for herself (we all tend to impose limitations on ourselves). But I believe that the prayers of believing family and friends enabled her to break through those limitations to give herself another chance to serve at a higher level in the physical. So she has had a real life experience of the struggles inherent in this world of duality and polarity. If she had gone with the flow as many people preach, she would have been rapidly flowing towards her death. Her determination to swim against the current saved her and I would imagine the kindest thing she could say about the view that people are not subject to the laws of duality and 'all is one' would be that such arguments are superfluous when dealing with 'real' life situations. I also think that it would be very difficult to persuade her that her recent crisis was an illusion. Finally, I know she would want me to thank you all on her behalf for your love and support and to tell you Arohanui - which means Much Love in Maori. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give. - Winston Churchill Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7576 From: Laura Subject: Chapter Thirty Concerns and Resolution Originally I was disturbed by JJ's post about chapter thirty. The pledge's third verse probably caused the most irritation with it promise to dedicate the initiate's "sex, money and power" energies to the cause. Immediately this brought forth visions of cults across the US - including the infamous Jonestown incident. I saw communes of mindless zombie-like cultists dressed in a dingy white, dedicating their lives to a sadistic suicidal madman. After receiving clarification and confirmation that the pledge had nothing to do with all that, I meditated and contemplated further on the pledge. A question formed in my mind - why did JJ ask for a dedication of sex, money and power energies? Why did he limit it to those only? Why did he not include such virtues as faith, hope, charity and service instead? As I contemplated those questions, I pondered the meanings of sex, money and power. Well, sex is still seen by the majority as a dirty filthy thing best kept in the bedroom. Women who take too many partners on in an extended period of time are seen as whores and men who don't engage in sex are abnormal. Sex is the topic of discussion and yet almost no topic has as many taboos associated with it. Money, as we all know, is the 'root of all evil'. It is the foundation of greed and the reason for much jealousy, hatred, bigotry and even murder. And power .. well. let's just say that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Power struggles are the reasons for anything from domestic violence and child abuse to World and Civil Wars. Power is addictive and very corruptive. So why, JJ? Why did you include such inherently evil elements in a pledge that is meant to unite the faithful, the saints of God? It occurred to me then that sex, money and power are not *necessarily* evil things. JJ could have put Hate or Greed in the pledge as well if he wanted to address evil elements in the human spirit. Lord knows there are enough of them! But JJ specifically chose sex, money and power! Sex, Money and Power were chosen, in my opinion, because they are the sources of energy currently used by man that have both the **highest potential** for good as well as the highest potential for being corrupted and misused, as it usually is. The energies behind sex, money and power have been the cause for most turbulence in the world today - past & present. But used properly, money can help the helpless, feed the hungry, and sex and power when used correctly, can be the source of some of the GREATEST magicks people can encounter!! Charity, Honesty and Service, although they are greatly desirable traits, are already in service to God when they are used, for they encourage us to strive for our Highest. But when we pledge to dedicate our powers of sex, money and power to the service of God, we are pledging those pieces of our lives that are typically misused in the history of mankind and are, instead, using them as building tools instead of weapons. I am writing this to encourage everyone who may have been upset by this piece of chapter 30 to be still and listen to that inner voice. What the personality rejects can oft be what the soul embraces. Question everything, but do so wisely and try not to jump to conclusions, like I did!! -Laura The Pledge of the Disciple I commit myself to join you my brothers and sisters as a follower of the Spirit of God and as a disciple of Christ/God in totally dedicating myself to the building of the Kingdom of God on the earth, and preparing the way with the eye of faith for the appearance of the Son of God. To aid in this, I covenant to do all in my power to assist in the materialization of the Molecular Organization on the Earth. I covenant to be one with you by ever seeking the One Spirit of God with you and resolve to solve all differences which may cause separation by seeking an answer and confirmation through the Spirit with you. I covenant to channel all my energies of sex, money and power toward union and not separateness, and consecrate myself and all these energies toward the purpose of God to create the Union of Souls and to establish the Kingdom of God on the Earth. AUMAN. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7577 From: Rick Audette Subject: [+] group within the group I do not consider there to be an "official" group of people that are the first gathered or congress or committee or whatever you would call them. There are a growing number of people that have stated that they would like to help in some way to bring about the gathering. I will continue to try to help coordinate their efforts, to the best of my ability, but as yet there is little but ideas floating around. The most important work at hand is to get a clear understanding of the principles. In the near future we will need ways to get this out to the rest of the world. Susi is taking up a collection, to get our own web domain. Others have writing skills and could prepare plans and articles for future newsletters. There's lots of work but I don't want to tell people what they should do. You'll all be so much happier if you follow your soul and initiate your own job in the Great Plan. Just let us all know so we know who to send help to and don't duplicate efforts, okay. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7578 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Chapter Thirty Concerns and Resolution The power of sex is another name for creativity. To use the power of sex in the furtherance of God's work means using creative arts in ways that will draw in more people to Oneness. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-12/7579 From: J J Dewey Subject: Duality Comments Paul states: "As duality is from oneness everything that is dual is ultimately from oneness. However illusion, as lack of truth, can only come from duality and not from oneness as the source of all." Your second statement here contradicts the first. If duality comes from oneness and illusion from duality then illusion owes its being to the oneness that created duality. Maybe it is illusion but I have great difficulty in getting a direct answer from you to my questions. Let me repeat my question again: "My question to you is why do you take positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list when you claim to follow this oneness idea, or do you feel that you have not reached it yet yourself?" Your non answer was: "I merely talk about ideas and engage in metaphysical discussions. I have never critically commented on the rightness or wrongness of people's positions. I have never launched personal attacks or passed negative remarks and I have never talked about what I have achieved." JJ: "No one is saying you have been critical and I do not think that I have been critical in return. No one has said that you have launched personal attacks and I also hope you have not seen my comments as such. BUT you have taken positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list. This type of judgment of right and wrong is in harmony with my philosophy, but from what you have said it seems to be out of harmony with your own. How do you justify this type of judgment when you seem to teach against it??? From what you have said it would seem to interfere with your focus away from duality. Paul: "Your reasoning logically leads to the conclusion that since good and evil come from the oneness of God, evil has to directly come from God." JJ: All things come from God, including both sides of the duality including evil. I know you're not big on authority; nevertheless I will quote the bible which has meaning for some: " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 Thus we see that even the great prophet Isaiah taught that God created evil. Like I say, if God did not create evil then we have some other being that is not God who is responsible for much (or all) of the creation we see. Paul: "This is simply negating the concept of duality. God and his manifestation are the primeval duality. From this duality come all dualities of manifested forms. It is essentially correct to say all is God but with some qualification. To say that God, the source of all, acts to create evil or illusion without participation by humans, as is the case, is not speaking with precision and clarity." JJ: "But humans are the "image of God," or the reflections of God. Jesus point blank stated that we are Gods (See John 10:34). Therefore, whatever we create is a creation for which God is responsible for man and God are one. We are his hands." Here is my thought on this duality debate. I believe the principle behind it all is illustrated quite accurately in my first chapter of the Molecular Relationship. In the beginning (of this universe) God was a singularity (oneness) which projected Purpose in all directions since there were no directions. Purpose vibrated and created the wavelength. The wavelength in turn created all there is which is evidenced by the explorations of science. Within matter they can find nothing solid, but only smaller and smaller wavelengths. Even a quark is made from them. In this world we see all things as separate and distinct, but in the higher worlds they are one as the body is one, but with many parts. Within our bodies is one spirit of life and that life is omnipresent throughout the body. Nevertheless the body has many parts. Even though the eye is separate and distinct from one angle, it still shares the same life as does the hand. Therefore when one of my eyes sees correctly it does not see itself as a mere eye, but as the whole. In my case the eye that sees itself as one with my body would not say "I am an eye," but would say "I am JJ" and I use my uniqueness to see for him which is myself. When we shift from the angle of vision of seeing ourselves as a separate universe (as Philo in my book) to that of seeing the connectiveness and oneness of all life then higher revelation does become possible. I know that some have probably questioned the wisdom of my spending so much time on this topic, but it seems to come up again and again. Because of this I hope to elucidate it clearly enough now so we can have greater unity and focus in the future. Hopefully starting tomorrow. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7580 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Making The Simple Complex Susi writes: "The people who were homeless and hungry were capable of being 'productive citizens' and at the very least these people were capable of providing for themselves with out receiving hand outs, hand outs that more often than not netted them at an average of over $135.00 per day for just a few hours worth of begging." "This second person is a scholar one who will benefit this world immensely, but alas he is hungry and his mind is not thinking clearly for lack of nourishment and most just view him as a beggar with nothing to contribute so he does not get feed because he is not as aggressive with his begging because begging is not his 'path' so he starves to death.....ah what have we missed?" There is an old saying.....Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7581 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Karma Rick writes: "Gee didn't Jesus also say, "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold or hot; I would that you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." Hi Rick I am glad you brought this one up. It is the verse that still has me examining myself and still wondering. It reminds me of when my dad once told me that "there is no fence sitting." To me, that meant "no in between". Then I keep hearing about all the so called "gray areas" from some I talk with in my family. I have never been able to find gray areas in the bible. So what is it that Jesus meant when he said, ".....I would that you were cold or hot." ".......because you are lukewarm......I will spit you out of my mouth." Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7582 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: The Beginning .... of Duality "In the beginning was the word" ... and the 'beginning' was that ... 'beginning' was separated from 'being' That was the word. thus began creation and destruction life and death good and evil Everything was, is now, and forever shall be. We are What we create from that is duality Christopher Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7583 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Karma Gray areas could also mean that there are many levels of comprehending the words in the Bible, beyond the simple black and white. There is a lot more detail given, for those that have the eye to see it. I think the hot or cold statement means what your father said about no fence sitting. A person that is either hot or cold is actively becoming. A person that is lukewarm is just being, which in other words used by Christ, is the same as being dead. Another way to say the same thing might be, it matters not if you win or lose, only that you play the game. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7584 From: Laura Subject: Re: [+] group within the group I realize the concerns of many of the keysters about having another 'group' apart from the original list. I also realize the potential dangers in straying from the original path when such groups are created. Yes, organizations - non-profit or commercial - have been bogged down by beauracracy in the past and have been of little to no use to the people they are meant to serve. Does this mean that we shouldn't even try? I was disturbed by the negativity towards this movement on the list. I'll let you know why in a minute, but I would like to remind supporters of this" splinter group" as well as its opposition that we as students and initiates of these teachings and principles have a responsibility to do MORE than just learn the teachings and principles. And it's not like we can wait until we're finished learning to start something like this because, as I'm sure JJ will agree with me, we will ALWAYS be learning now. There is so much to know and only the rest of this lifetime to continue learning in before we are reborn and forget everything again. I, for one, want to learn POSSIBLE, but I also want to DO everything possible to get the world around me into a state of readiness to accept the Truth. Now I want to let you know why I believe this "splinter group" needs to be put into action and into a forward motion. This past Sunday I was talking with John W.K. and the topic of service came up. We talked for a good amount of time about creating a worldwide organization in the future that is dedicated to service and based on the solid foundations of the principles we're learning. We daydreamed about what that would mean to the world and how its success would greatly benefit mankind. Then JJ posted chapter 29, about service. I said to John - Wow! Do you think this is a coincidence? Then Rick grabbed the ball and RAN with it, as most wonderful initiates do and said, "Okay, everyone who's interested in making the world a better place come on over to this list and let's get started." And again I thought - can this be coincidence? Is this divine inspiration or just good timing..? My opinion at this point, looking at the events and how closely they fit together and how quickly they happened have convinced me that we're looking more at Soul contact or divine inspiration than we are mere timing issues. I can appreciate the hesitancy in the group to do something new, I really can. But I also believe that although we should be like Mary and sit at the teacher's feet and absorb his wisdom, there WAS also a time for the disciples of Christ to go forth and spread the words of love and healing to the land. Yes, there IS the possibility of this organization being corrupted. Yes, there IS the possibility of it losing sight of the principles, but that is NOT a reason to give up on it before it even starts. There's something wonderful happening here, and I for one will be a part of it, I don't know about the rest of you. Until my soul tells me that I imagined all this and the organization is not ready to be created, I will strive for it and its planning. When my soul speaks to me, I will listen and try not to forget. Can each of you who felt that urgent need to serve and be a part of this council pledge the same thing? Can you pledge to remember that beautiful, soft voice that spoke to your spirit when you read Chapter 29 and Rick's message regarding it? Or will you let it fall to the ground, forgotten and trampled? Listen to your soul.. one way or another. If it's telling you I'm full of sh*t, then so be it, I must be. But mine is telling me that we can't let this fall to the heap of broken dreams and forgotten plans. This will be carried through, if not by us then by another set of initiates in the future. Okay.. one last thing. If any of my recent posts are coming off as harsh or abrasive (including last night's post), I apologize greatly. I'm going through a lot of turbulence on the home front that will be settling down in the next week and I will be able to pursue the peace I've been looking for. Until then, please accept my apologies for any offense and take my words with a grain of salt. Much obliged *wink* Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7585 From: Laura Subject: OT Making The Simple Complex "There is an old saying.....Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life." My latin teacher in Junior High used to tell us: Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Keep a fish in your pocket, and you will smell funny. -Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7586 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Duality Comments Paul states: "As duality is from oneness everything that is dual is ultimately from oneness. However illusion, as lack of truth, can only come from duality and not from oneness as the source of all." JJ: "Your second statement here contradicts the first. If duality comes from oneness and illusion from duality then illusion owes its being to the oneness that created duality." Paul Yu: The duality that emanates from oneness cannot but be balanced. Consequently imbalance cannot be created by oneness. Illusion as lack of truth is not balanced. Therefore illusion cannot be created by oneness or God. The question you raised implied that the concept of duality is not different from that of oneness and hence the concept of evolution is ruled out from the concept of creation. "Maybe it is illusion but I have great difficulty in getting a direct answer from you to my questions. Let me repeat my question again:" "My question to you is why do you take positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list when you claim to follow this oneness idea, or do you feel that you have not reached it yet yourself?" "Your non answer was: "I merely talk about ideas and engage in metaphysical discussions. I have never critically commented on the rightness or wrongness of people's positions. I have never launched personal attacks or passed negative remarks and I have never talked about what I have achieved." JJ: "No one is saying you have been critical and I do not think that I have been critical in return. No one has said that you have launched personal attacks and I also hope you have not seen my comments as such. BUT you have taken positions almost daily on the rightness or wrongness of comments of people on this list. This type of judgment of right and wrong is in harmony with my philosophy, but from what you have said it seems to be out of harmony with your own. How do you justify this type of judgment when you seem to teach against it??? From what you have said it would seem to interfere with your focus away from duality." Paul Yu: The concept of duality is twofold. Duality is oneness; duality is internal opposition. To speak of opposition is not judgment of right and wrong until and unless the concept of opposition is believed to be real. Thus no difference of opinion is indicative of judgment of right and wrong unless it is exclusive. If, in addition to looking at the opposition aspect of duality with the left eye of the body we also attempt to use the right eye to look at the oneness aspect of duality the single eye of the soul would be given an opportunity to see duality as a whole in both aspects of oneness and opposition. When we saw things as they appeared with our two eyes we were not for a long time being able to focus and as a result got lost in the opposition of duality and became deluded by the sight of separation of things seemingly opposing to each other. Going along with our wrong impression of reality as real we have been creating a concept of separation of realities, which we gave the name of illusion. Paul: ""Your reasoning logically leads to the conclusion that since good and evil come from the oneness of God, evil has to directly come from God." JJ: "All things come from God, including both sides of the duality including evil. I know you're not big on authority; nevertheless I will quote the bible which has meaning for some: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7" "Thus we see that even the great prophet Isaiah taught that God created evil." "Like I say, if God did not create evil then we have some other being that is not God who is responsible for much (or all) of the creation we see." Paul Yu: God created duality, i.e., both good and evil as a team, so to speak, and not just good or just evil. For either good or evil is no duality. Wasn't Isaiah also speaking in terms of duality instead of darkness and evil alone? If he did he would be speaking of illusion, the way we see things with our rational mind and wrongly. We are responsible for the illusion we have created. We suffer on account of it. We have to work to liberate ourselves from man-made illusion, and when we manipulate energy to the point of dissipating our illusion we will truly be liberated. If God created illusion there would be no way that we with our limited effort could undo it. Paul: "This is simply negating the concept of duality. God and his manifestation are the primeval duality. From this duality come all dualities of manifested forms. It is essentially correct to say all is God but with some qualification. To say that God, the source of all, acts to create evil or illusion without participation by humans, as is the case, is not speaking with precision and clarity." JJ: "But humans are the "image of God," or the reflections of God. Jesus point blank stated that we are Gods (See John 10:34). Therefore, whatever we create is a creation for which God is responsible for man and God are one. We are his hands." "Here is my thought on this duality debate. I believe the principle behind it all is illustrated quite accurately in my first chapter of the Molecular Relationship. In the beginning (of this universe) God was a singularity (oneness) which projected Purpose in all directions since there were no directions. Purpose vibrated and created the wavelength. The wavelength in turn created all there is which is evidenced by the explorations of science. Within matter they can find nothing solid, but only smaller and smaller wavelengths. Even a quark is made from them." "In this world we see all things as separate and distinct, but in the higher worlds they are one as the body is one, but with many parts. Within our bodies is one spirit of life and that life is omnipresent throughout the body. Nevertheless the body has many parts. Even though the eye is separate and distinct from one angle, it still shares the same life as does the hand. Therefore when one of my eyes sees correctly it does not see itself as a mere eye, but as the whole. In my case the eye that sees itself as one with my body would not say "I am an eye," but would say "I am JJ" and I use my uniqueness to see for him which is myself." "When we shift from the angle of vision of seeing ourselves as a separate universe (as Philo in my book) to that of seeing the connectiveness and oneness of all life then higher revelation does become possible." "I know that some have probably questioned the wisdom of my spending so much time on this topic, but it seems to come up again and again. Because of this I hope to elucidate it clearly enough now so we can have greater unity and focus in the future. Hopefully starting tomorrow." Paul Yu: Your description provides an excellent demonstration of the relation of the oneness aspect to the opposition aspect of duality as well as the relation of duality to oneness. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7587 From: Linda Tweedie Subject: Illusion/Oneness We would be in a non-creative state If we were all one and life and all is illusion. We are individuals who create, with a part of god inside us - we are not god. God is the source, creativity comes from him through us into being (it is of course able to come direct from the source - no conduit - for we do not have to ask). We believe that to recognise the god in us, is to synthesise creation here in 3d, to create a new ascended plane of existence. There are those who are not remotely interested in looking at this, yet still they create and be and will ascend, along with the rest of us. Some might get a sneak preview of the life to come. When we get into perspective that it takes swamis, yogis and gurus all their lives to achieve an enlightened peace, even with the quickening we are witnessing, there will be a fair smattering of the bell curve in the range of peoples' experience of enlightenment. Intent cannot work on its own. Plants need the earth and the sun. Intent, opportunity and the creative force (wherever it comes from) and that it fits into your plan, and the earth's plan. Otherwise we could say I want this, I want that and get everything handed to us. Without the "Plan" there would be chaos. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7588 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: Straight Answers Paul Yu wrote: "Your reasoning logically leads to the conclusion that since good and evil come from the oneness of God, evil has to directly come from God. This is simply negating the concept of duality. God and his manifestation are the primeval duality. From this duality come all dualities of manifested forms. It is essentially correct to say all is God but with some qualification. To say that God, the source of all, acts to create evil or illusion without participation by humans, as is the case, is not speaking with precision and clarity." So, God is perfect? He can't fail, ever, under any circumstance? He can't even be wrong? Please clarify, it sounds like that is what you are saying. Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7589 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Rick Audette wrote: "We now have machines that can do things that only "psychics" could do before. NASA has equipment that can read the life signs and thoughts of astronauts, even when they are outside of normal radio communication and that works a speeds faster than light. The machine picks up the astronaut's "vibes" from a photograph of him and works, no matter how far away he is. The astronaut and the photo are one, even if they appear to be separated by millions of miles." Those who come up with new ideas are basically philosophers. You almost have to be to discover a new principle. Einstein for example, Relativity was considered to be very out there until they found they could prove it. Most people who originate the ideas never see them come to be accepted in their lifetime. I have never heard of the devices you mention in there. I read a lot of stuff from NASA too, so I'm surprised I haven't seen that one. I don't suppose you have any more specific terms I can give a search engine? Most of the stuff in the message would produce a lot of hits that have nothing to do with this. As far as I know, nothing has been shown to be faster then light. Mostly because we can't measure anything faster. Such a discovery would be announced rather loudly I would think. It would open a ton of new doors for science. Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7590 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: OT: Taste of Russell Paul Yu wrote: "Who in their right mind would feel compelled to go out and kill as many people as they can? I don't think this is a good example. A plan concerns an overall project and all the people involved in it. A plan does not necessarily make the individuals robots. Any plan would have to take into consideration the human factor of changeability and freedom of choice in particular situations. No plan would allow killing for no sufficient reason." Why is it not a good example? There are plenty of people who kill because they feel compelled to. They range from Business Executives on down to Serial Killers. If no plan would allow killing for no sufficient reason, why does that occur on a daily basis? People do it, Paul, everyday. According to the things you've said in previous messages, they will never have to pay a price for that, because it is all part of the 'plan'. Paul Yu now: "You cannot ignore what you believe to be right or wrong. You have to follow your beliefs to naturally live your life. If you feel that you should not give up when discouraged with your spiritual progress try your best not to give up. Not to give up in this case would be regarded as the natural thing to do." So it's just as good for me to 'not give up' as it is for a homeless person to give up? What about those who give up on life? Is that the natural thing for them? I think the safest way to go is not necessarily the 'natural' way. Following the highest good isn't always the 'natural' way. However, it does provide for some wonderful end results. I won't do the 'natural' thing most of the time, because that would ultimately lead me into succumbing to my lower animalistic tendencies. I want to move forward, not backward. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7591 From: "Yvonne Pisz" Subject: Re: Karma Hi Marylin, Rick Wrote: "Gee didn't Jesus also say, "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold or hot; I would that you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." Marylin: "I am glad you brought this one up. It is the verse that still has me examining myself and still wondering. It reminds me of when my dad once told me that "there is no fence sitting." To me, that meant "no in between". Then I keep hearing about all the so called "gray areas" from some I talk with in my family. I have never been able to find gray areas in the bible. So what is it that Jesus meant when he said, ".....I would that you were cold or hot." ".......because you are lukewarm......I will spit you out of my mouth." I notice how many times that lines are taken out of the bible and applied to current topics. This only bothers me when it's contextual meaning is lost in order to make someone's point. So, instead of "cursing the darkness". I thought I'd post the chapter that the "lukewarm" word appears. Rev 3:1-22 1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. (KJV) Can you imagine how many images and interpretations could be laid upon the lukewarm verse if presented by itself? Yet I think that if the verse is worthy of quoting, its context and its OWN imagery should be worthy of consideration. In this particular verse we're presented with an image to consider. This image has some peculiar attributes. That is: "thou art lukewarm 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" So in answering the self questioning of who is the "lukewarm", if one can put together a picture of the person that has all those attributes, they'll be able to see if those attributes resemble their own. Based on this, I don't see a whole lot of "lukewarmness" going on, on this list. :) And what a pleasant thing that is. But along with that I'll leave you with another scripture. Ps 133:1-3 (The Whole Psalm, BTW) 1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! 2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; 3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. (KJV) Quite a payoff when we live together in unity. :) Holding Peace and Cheer Filled Thoughts, John PS Laura had this to say in her most recent post: "Money, as we all know, is the 'root of all evil'. It is the foundation of greed and the reason for much jealousy, hatred, bigotry and even murder". Well, that's become a clich? which had its roots from a bible verse. But the actually verse says, "It's the LOVE OF money which is the root of all evil". That difference may seem subtle, but those two different images can lead one to either a life of poverty or a life of abundance. If one thinks money is evil, they may unwittingly shun its presence. But if one realizes that this "love of money" speaks of an attachment to money, and free themselves from that Love of money, they become free to possess great abundance without suffering those evil after effects. That is I believe a very large image that is addressed in the actual verse, which is completely lost when we use the "clich?" version. I hope this doesn't seem nit picky, but I think if we are quoting any source, we should give it more than a sentence before we attempt to let it make our point for us. Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7592 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Chapter Twenty Nine "Into the Light," Rick Hi Rick I am using AOL with IM. So how do I get or use an ICQ? Love and Light Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7593 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Chapter Twenty-Nine Susi writes: "Universal Congress of Gathered Lights" (Rick's suggestion) Susi's suggestions: 'United Circle of Compassionate Lights United Sphere of Compassionate Lights United Sphere of Knighted Lights" Universal to United......hmmmm..... Universal covers all in existence..... United means one....... I like both, but Universal seems to cover more territory. Congress to Sphere....... Congress means many congregated together for a specific purpose....... Sphere makes me think of a ball, the earth, a circle. Somewhat limiting. Gathered to Compassionate to Knighted..... Gathered means many in one place or one thought...... Compassionate means love, feeling for....... Knighted means to be bopped on the head with a sword. (I'm sorry about that. It's what it always looked like to me) Lights to Lights to Lights to Lights....... Looks like we agree unanimously on this one. I like all of the suggestions. They sound great. I would just like to be a part of this. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7594 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Beginning .... of Duality Greetings to All, And thank you Christopher for such a clear and concise picture. "In the beginning was the word" ... "and the 'beginning' was that ... 'beginning' was separated from 'being' For me the key word here is SEPARATED. Did we at some level in the fall, lose sight that we are God, and thus need to be retaught or remember that? And in being retaught do we look at God from this perspective and create God in OUR IMAGE, or do we unite with God and create in HIS IMAGE? "That was the word. thus began creation and destruction life and death good and evil Everything was, is now, and forever shall be. We are What we create from that s duality Christopher And does it only remain a duality until we unite in the oneness that we are with our creator, becoming THAT CREATOR, and creation now a TRUE PICTURE FREE OF DUALITY? Is this possible? Eternal life would then have no opposite that we call death... hmmm just a thought. In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7595 From: "Tracey Hobson" Subject: Re: Chapter Thirty Concerns and Resolution Good morning all, I just wanted to add a little light to something Laura said ... it is not money that is the root of all evil. Money is neutral - it is how we feel about it that's important. The correct quote, I believe, is that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7596 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Illusion/Oneness Greetings to All once again, Lovely to read your post Linda. Hope you will not feel offended if I speculate here... since this is not quite provable ground as yet!! LOL "We would be in a non-creative state If we were all one and life and all is illusion." "Since I see creation as having an illusory veil inherent within it, yet because it is illusory not able to be seen by God, the removing of that veil would allow us to become the true creators that we are in the Image of God. Since I have no simple way of saying this... perhaps when we create in the Illusionary Image of Man, we simply add to the illusion that blocks are seeing God's true creation, and when we create in the True Image of God, we enhance God's Creation. Thus a split mind would sometimes be in illusion and sometimes in God. Although always in God, we 'believe' in separation." "I accept life is eternal, and the ongoingness of creation is eternal. What an adventure!!" "We are individuals who create, with a part of god inside us - we are not god." For me God radiates the totality of itself into receivership (mirror) called creation. Being able to receive totally and allow God totally is oneness in creation. That's the best I can do with the words!! "God is the source, creativity comes from him through us into being (it is of course able to come direct from the source - no conduit - for we do not have to ask). We believe that to recognise the god in us, is to synthesise creation here in 3d, to create a new ascended plane of existence. There are those who are not remotely interested in looking at this, yet still they create and be and will ascend, along with the rest of us. Some might get a sneak preview of the life to come. When we get into perspective that it takes swamis, yogis and gurus all their lives to achieve an enlightened peace, even with the quickening we are witnessing, there will be a fair smattering of the bell curve in the range of peoples' experience of enlightenment. Intent cannot work on its own. Plants need the earth and the sun. Intent, opportunity and the creative force (wherever it comes from) and that it fits into your plan, and the earth's plan. Otherwise we could say I want this, I want that and get everything handed to us. Without the "Plan" there would be chaos." Now isn't that funny... I see we do get everything handed to us, there is no lack in God's kingdom. We are perhaps saying the same thing, paradoxically!! In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7597 From: Laura Subject: Re: Karma Hey Marylin, I was always taught that that verse referred to the faith of humanity. Either you're hot (on fire and ready and willing to serve God), or you're cold (don't care about religion, debase God or follow a darker path like the Dark Brothers). The lukewarm are those that call themselves the faithful and claim to be a child of God and yet abuse their families or go to church on the big "2" (Christmas & Easter) and never have a thought in their head of God or how to become better people. These people are lukewarm and will be 'spewed' from the place they claim to have with God because they truly do not follow His will even though they SAY they do. hehe.. what Jesus may be saying here is "Actions speak louder than words" *wink* laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7598 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Straight Answers Greetings to All, Wow this is a great question Travis! "So, God is perfect? He can't fail, ever, under any circumstance? He can't even bewrong? Please clarify, it sounds like that is what you are saying." We get from Jesus through the Bible 'be ye therefore Perfect even as my Father in Heaven is Perfect' (Gosh I am not so hot at remembering exactly please correct precisely if I have misunderstood here!!) Now we know through JJ's teachings that 'the Father' is the Ancient of DAys. So on a higher level of consciousness, Perfection seems to be a reality, that does not exist at our level, until we consciously choose to be that Perfection, and we have to find out what that is according to that level of consciousness, not the definition of perfection on this level! It may also be that the Ancient of DAys, sees the creator as total perfection, and when we unite with our Father, the Ancient of DAys, we too will catch a glimpse of that perfection. Then comes understanding from an expanded consciousness! In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7599 From: Susi Subject: Re: Making The Simple Complex "There is an old saying.....Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life." Very true Marylin, but there is another saying........You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink *S*. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7600 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Straight Answers "So, God is perfect? He can't fail, ever, under any circumstance? He can't even be wrong? Please clarify, it sounds like that is what you are saying. Travis" Yes, Travis, God is perfect by our definition of perfection. No, God transcends that which we know as perfect. God cannot be right or wrong. God is oneness or simply is. God manifests oneness as duality. God cannot be good or evil; God is that which transcends good and evil. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7601 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The new group Greetings to All, And to you Jennifer, I truly enjoyed your post, its sincerity and honesty certainly shown through. I truly love the concept you have put forward, to allow the integrity of existing groups to be maintained in their freedom as they grow and evolve and choose etc. I feel we all see some very interesting and vital visions for the future, and these will also be allowed to grow and evolve. This may be preserving the integrity of the oh so many groups that exist today. Allowing their choice and evolvement, without imposed regulations etc and truly as we grow in oneness we will come 'naturally' to a harmonious agreement. It will not have to be the same exact words, yet be the expression of oneness in a beautiful flowering. Freedom will still be such an integral part IMHO. I, like you, have enjoyed being a part of many groups around the world, and am so joyous at the growth, and the commonality and brotherly love expressed within them all. That union will occur with us all, and it may be a very unspoken, yet beautifully united thought... the expression of freedom in love light and power... and each individual's thoughts and dreams allowed to evolve naturally and grow our oneness together yet free and independently. I have seen many groups joined in consciousness, that may or may not be joined at the physical level. The commonality of their thought and consciousness level automatically unites them. That looks so much like freedom of expression, and yet still a oneness of spirit in all its myriad of expression... what a profound radiating jewel I see. This has been going on for many many years, and will continue as I already see so many beautiful groups out of India and so many parts of the world, that join in harmony with us, irrespective of our conscious knowledge here. How boring it would be if we all om-ed in the one same exact tone. It is the harmony of all tone that is so profound, and all the pictures of our dreams I see the same way. There will always be those that feel they have to be the conductor of the orchestra... yet I have been in splendid musical groups so talented, that allowed a simple introduction and the subsequent incorporation of each playing, and suddenly we are transported into oneness... the overriding spirit playing and balancing to such an extent that those that love control would believe it was cacophony, yet those that have ears to hear, hear the music of the spheres! That is acceptance, oneness and an exquisite harmony in the creation of life mirroring back to its creator. For me actions speak louder than words. Words create separation due to misunderstandings etc. Yet allowing ourselves freedom of expression in the unity of all life... recognising these ever expanding groups are consciously choosing unity, oneness, evolution... and seeing all those walking in that same splendid direction of their own free will... often with the same thoughts, and empowering them together..... I was happy to walk beside you in your thoughts today, especially those detailed below. In love and laughter, ZIA "Having not long left a bureaucracy with its meetings, agendas, committees, sub- committees, sub-sub committees etc in which very little was accomplished for the people they were designed to serve, I am finding all the jargon associated with it sickening. No doubt I'll get better but right now give me the freedom to unite with others in a way that naturally and organically develops in the fullness of time rather than one that is force fed and grows too quickly without a solid foundation. As in gardening, PREPARATION of the soil (i.e the stuff that is usually not noticed) is essential if the RESULT (i.e. the stuff that is noticed, the flowers) are to reach their full glory and ENDURE." "I know many of us on the List consider our whole lives have been a preparation for where we are now. We are keen to sow the seed and get the results. But lets not just sow any old seed. Lets envisage the kind of garden we really want to have when it comes to maturity. No point planting daisy seeds just because they are readily available or its the right season for them, when what you really want in your heart of hearts is garden of roses." "It is not that I don't applaud the initiative shown, I'm just not ready for it myself. And I am satisfied with the way things are going on the current List, continuing to get a great deal out of JJ's teachings and to share what I discover with people around me." "My own thoughts have been running along the lines of seeing if the informal group of friends I am part of (about 100 strong, which meet weekly in smaller 'molecules' of about 12, and have done for over 15 years - although my own involvement started 6 years ago) might wish to unite in some way with JJ and the Keysters. Certainly the two groups are unified in the way we think about things. As to how people put their thoughts and ideas into practice in life, I find it hard to tell from posts alone." Post No. keys-l: /1999-10-13/7602 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT - Rangi Update Greetings to All, And to you Glenys and Rangi, as well as your growing group of love and light! I have so enjoyed your post today Glenys, and would add some further thoughts of my own in support. "I have no doubt that a miracle has taken place. Just a f