1999 - WEEK 37 Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6717 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: [Susi] ... If ... Then ... Hello Susi ... I am reposting, at your request ... a composite and expanded version of If ...Then ... following the input of you and others ,,, You may use it as you see fit ... Christopher ============== If ...The Mother and the Father are united ... If ...as Below is as Above ... If ...the spirituality from the base (or ground) rising as Kundalini is merged with the "cosmic spirituality" coming down from the crown ... If ...the conscious is at one with what is unconscious If ...'manity' merges with 'Hu' If ...the 'two eyes become as one' If ...the 'spiritual' becomes on with the 'physical' Then .you are no longer a body containing a heart but a heart .. at one with your body ... ---------- Hu = Divine (Tibetan and sanskrit roots) - Man is the separate physicality/mind/ego of collective mankind 'Hu' - 'man' is 'God-man' or man in divine form or God in Man form "You were created in the image of God" (from somewhere in that book we call a bible) ------------- Susi ....Ok thank you it does help let me make sure. It is the Hu the I needed to know not the 'manity', correct? Hu = Divine as in the Divine Source of all that exists or ever will. One last question, the Then statement at the end of the If question which I deleted and can't remember the exact words right now but if one achieves the Then statement do they still exist in form?" Chris...This is the true outcome and meaning of 'Ascension' ... "Then you are no longer a body containing a heart but a heart .. in "at-one-ment" (atonement) with your body ... This happens with the intermingling of the upward and downward flows of energy ... the heart opens from both the top and the bottom ... and the mind is no longer in the head but (descending) in the heart ... The evolution of this ... is that you become a heart containing a body ... your external aura will disappear ... as it becomes absorbed into the space between the cells" and you will be seen by those who have eyes to see as a "blue person" with a shimmering etheric extending from blue to silver blue to nothing .. Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6718 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: OT ..?? Angels .. Fallen and Otherwise The repressed 'para-normal' experiences of the child not understood by parents and teachers made wrong by so many churches are at the root of the lack of faith that so many people these days experience of themselves. My suggestion is for you to allow the rememberings ... and go deeper .. who made them wrong and why ... and how were you, as a child made wrong ... your knowing, your vision, your truth denied .. for when you have released that memory then ... and only then will you find that what you are looking for you already are .. everything else is a plot to separate you from that ... the fallen angel is you, now ... having been forced to believe, as a child that your dreams, your visions, what you heard, what you knew was wrong ..... The angels you see now, the angels you seek are the rekindling of those childhood rememberings ... you are the angel you seek .. that you have forgotten ... believing in angels outside yourself will keep you split .. and alien The tinglings you are experiencing throughout your body are your body awakening to that remembering ... underneath the layers and conditioning the beliefs, myths and legends you are an angel incarnate Christopher Wynter Hobart Tasmania. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6719 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: (OT) Differences Greetings to All, How great to see you posting Lynne, it seems there is benefits to many when we share our efforts and desires to overcome the obstacles to our 'becoming' ALL we can become! I too feel enriched by being a part and I am deeply honored by your happiness in my being here, and I too feel a sense of belonging, and accept my chair at this table of sharing. In making choices from the 'bigger' picture of the molecule, I realize those choices have such a 'bigger' effect than just my own personal world, and that strengthens me to consider even minor reactions based on fear as not only of no benefit to myself but also of no benefit to those I am joined as one with in a molecular relationship. Every bit of motivation helps I find, and when to the benefit of others, I seem better motivated!! When we are all making those same choices daily, we are actually strengthening one another daily as well. It is truly the more light you have, the easier it is to see!! 12 lights on in a room can be very bright indeed!!! In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6720 From: "rapter" Subject: Teacher For most of my adolescent and adult life I have like many of you been searching for something just beyond my spiritual grasp. All this time (20 years) I have wondered why a teacher has never appeared to guide me upon this path. For I have read and heard many times that when the pupil is ready the teacher will come! I hope and pray that we have all found in J.J. Dewey a teacher of principles who will light the path a little so we may follow. When we follow it will not be blindly but with the knowledge of soul contact as our helmsmen. Keith Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6721 From: "rapter" Subject: Immortal Books Ordered Months Ago To: J.J. Dewey: Please be advised that I am presently checking with my old address (Bomanville) to see if the said books have arrived. I have recently moved and all my mail should have been forwarded to my new address (Orono). I will let you know more after I talk with the post office. Thank-you for your prompt reply to my dilemma! Donna Grant Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6722 From: "rapter" Subject: Joseph Smith's Gathering If I understand correctly 'gathering' is meaning to come together to join or bond with others in a molecular relationship of however many you have. 2-12-24 or combinations thereof 50-70- whatever you have in a certain area. In Joseph Smith days they believed that they were to 'gather' to a specific spot namely, 'Independence Missouri' which would be the future location of the 'New Jerusalem'. Do you have any comments! Also, could someone enlighten me as to who were/are the Masons and what they are all about? Donna Grant Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6723 From: Rick Audette Subject: Latest List 9/13/99 Hi All, Got a late start tonight, because I was putting together a new web page for my brother Ray at, http://www.neanderthin.com I'll be adding more as he gets ready for his 20 city tour and the release of the fourth edition of his book. Lots of new members to say hi to. I'm glad you all have joined us. Welcome to the family. Be sure to send us a post and tell us a little about yourselves. I'm sure you'll find us a friendly and helpful lot. Here's the latest list of "Keysters". If you'd like to share more about yourself, drop me a line or introduce yourselves on list. We'd love to get to know you better. Rick +++++++++++++++++++ Keysters list 9/13/99 Adrian Bradley mailto:adrian.bradley@diamond.co.uk_ United Kingdom Alda Behm mailto:behm@indianvalley.com Alex Appelman mailto:Aa_appelman@hotmail.com__ Netherlands Aley mailto:Aley@wcl.on.ca Ambarish Chitnis mailto:chitnis@pspl.co.in_ India Amit Wadhwani mailto:chasm_god@hotmail.com Ananda mailto:ananda@superaje.com_ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/2610/ Angela Buffalow mailto:DEVIST8ME@AOL.COM Anni Ida West [Dec. 2] mailto:aiw@ats.dk _ Aarhus, Denmark_ http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Terrace/2242_ ICQ 12376564 AntonioJosephMartin mailto:d055777c@dc.seflin.org_ http://www.collegeclub.com/~d055777c/ Athene Ho mailto:weirdnerd@collegemail.com Barncastle mailto:tlbarnca@cats.ucsc.edu Becky Priddy mailto:Celerygirl@aol.com Becky Ryan mailto:bdryan@sat.net _ Palestine, TX Benjamin Tang mailto:vin_tae@yahoo.com Betty L. Norem [March 1] mailto:BNOREM@aol.com _ Panama City, Florida Beverly J Salzman mailto:BevSalzman@aol.com Bonnie Lee mailto:HeartBMule@aol.com Bret Walters mailto:h1817@mcleod.net Brian S. Weis mailto:Brainwise@aol.com __ Bucks County, PA_ ICQ 20234126 Brian Loehr mailto:vrcat@teleport.com Bruce Tracy mailto:indexer@lightspeed.net C.D.Hoit mailto:cdhoit@vvm.com Camille Pierce mailto:Camille728@aol.com Carmen Cuadra mailto:CCu2946845@aol.com _ Connecticut Carole Jarrett mailto:CaroleJarr@aol.com Carole Treskin mailto:natrem@natures-remedy.com_ http://www.natures-remedy.com/ Carolyn Elaine Miller mailto:Luv2par@aol.com Cheryl Schumacher-Fr.. Christopher Wynter mailto:wynter@bigpond.com_ Hobart, Tasmania http://www.anunda.com/ Chuck Schneider mailto:chksr@yahoo.com Clifford Thompson mailto:ThompsoC@sharpsec.com Clive Culbertson [August 28] mailto:clive.culbertson@virgin.net _ N.Ireland http://homepage.virgin.net/clive.culbertson Colin Chiles mailto:pinnacle@xtra.co.nz_ New Zealand Cynthia Gear mailto:stargazer@lanset.com Cynthia Selden mailto:AngelZazel@aol.com Damon Amaeous mailto:firedraake@earthlink.net David Curtis mailto:davec@accessld.com _ Salt Lake City, Utah David Goddard mailto:david@footdoot.force9.co.uk _ United Kingdom http://www.footdoot.force9.co.uk/ David Teller mailto:tellercreations@hotmail.com _ New York,NY http://www.danwinter.com/the_gift Debbie Mazur mailto:Chantillyd@aol.com Dennis O'Flaherty mailto:dragon39.ancientdragon@pop.infoasis.com Dennis R. Taylor mailto:Dr-T@webtv.net Desiree van Dijk mailto:D.v.Dijk@flash.a2000.nl _ Netherlands http://people.a2000.nl/dvandijk/index.html Devin Brown mailto:phoenixess@hotmail.com_ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/7670/ Diane Linen [November 21] mailto:linen@flash.net _ Austin,TX_ ICQ 5019987 Donna Grant mailto:pibr@hotmail.com Doreen Esberk mailto:esberk1@erols.com Dot mailto:DotSabel@aol.com Else Zaboski mailto:ez@i-planet.com Estrellia Sheran mailto:DMNDGalaxy@aol.com_ http://www.diamondgalaxy.com/ fe pacheco mailto:thummim@pacific.net.ph Fernan Gonzalez mailto:morton@entelchile.net Gary Richards mailto:gdr@aiit.net.au _ Australia Gay Avice du Buisson mailto:entrance@icon.co.za_ South Africa http://www.icon.co.za/~entrance/ Geoffrey Ellis mailto:xgeoff@freeuk.com George Thanos mailto:thanos@korelko.gr__ Greece Gerald de Heer mailto:geraldhugh@hotmail.com_ Honolulu http://www.inward.com Gerhard van Zyl mailto:creek@icon.co.za Glenys Lowery [sept 1] mailto:isis@ihug.co.nz. _ Wellington, NZ_ ICQ 21829391 Glori Dawson mailto:gdawson56@hotmail.com Harald Schmidt mailto:cu.in.hell@usa.net_ Australia Hashim Hassan mailto:hasha94@hotmail.com Isabelle [April 5] mailto:belle@ametro.net _ Mississipi Isabelle Charette mailto:Zaby@vegacom.on.ca _ Ottawa,Canada Isobel Phillips mailto:Spirit@abshouse.demon.co.uk Jalien Shandler mailto:pichuma@earthlink.net James Bryan (TwinStorms)[june 6] mailto:bryan182@bellatlantic.net _ New Kensington, Pa. http://members.xoom.com/TwinStorms/_ ICQ 11179055 James T. Lee mailto:rainbow7@netasia.net Jean Mitchell mailto:Timber-roo@webtv.net__ Suffolk, Virginia__ http://www.angelfire.com/va/jeanbean25/_ http://community-1.webtv.net/Timber- roo/TheSandsOfTime/ Jeffrey Forte mailto:play@wizardwonderland.com__ http://www.wizardwonderland.com/ Jennifer Hampson mailto:jhampson@goulburn.net.au_ Australia Jennifer Hardin [June 25] mailto:Jennifer.Hardin@archongroup.com _ Irving,TX Jeremy Johnson mailto:milamber6@hotmail.com__ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3420/ Jerry Ann Spruill mailto:JSmegan@aol.com _ Milwaukee, WI. jessica hamway mailto:Jlh22405@aol.com Joanna M. Epps-Gay mailto:j.m.epps-gay@larc.nasa.gov John E. Phillips mailto:jphillips@supportgroup.com John M. Kosior [July 2] mailto:jkosior@mindspring.com_ ICQ 17477456 John Wayne Kline mailto:jkline@TheRural.Net Jonathan Ong mailto:jona62@hotmail.com Jose M. Paredes mailto:jparedes@dextratech.com Jose Quinones mailto:OwlThundr@aol.com _ NYC Brooklyn Joseph J. Dewey [feb 6] mailto:jjd@rmci.net __ Boise, Idaho http://www.freeread.com Judith Neel mailto:URwhatUdo@aol.com Julie Visser mailto:quality@chariot.net.au _ Australia Kam Baya mailto:Kambaya@aol.com Kathryn Behaine mailto:kathryn@orbitworld.net Keith Harris mailto:job@idirect.com Kemal rsdemir mailto:ortagon27@hotmail.com Kevin Shannon [September 28] mailto:kevinsha@oz.net _ Federal Way,Washington,USA Kitty Chastain mailto:mannawell@telpage.net Klaus J Joehle mailto:livingonlove@nucleus.com_ http://livingonlove.com Knight_Templar mailto:aum@philonline.com_ http://members.tripod.com/star_aeuz/ Kymberlee Turner mailto:diomo70@hotmail.com Lacey A. mailto:hanson@innercite.com Lanezach mailto:lanezach@geocities.com _ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/4789/index.html Laura Bruce [Feb.27] mailto:runewitch@hotmail.com_ Cincinnati, OH _ ICQ 49004721 __ http://members.tripod.com/~BlackLeatherRain/index.html LeLona Hodges mailto:LHodges942@aol.com Leasa Taylor mailto:leasa@mindspring.com Lia Duggin mailto:groovychick6@hotmail.com Linda mailto:Loubet16@aol.com Lisa Folk [July 26] mailto:lfolk@mail.cybermedia-inc.com _ Taylor,BC,Canada http://www.naturalfolks.com_ http://www.naturalfolks.com/keys/_ ICQ 10905362 Lisa Marie Capaccio mailto:LMCAPA@aol.com Lois Smith mailto:smithted@senet.com.au__ Australia Lorna Roces-Fernande.. ??? Lorraine Deckard mailto:Lorraineshome@yahoo.com_ or mailto:lorraineshome@webtv.com_ Boise, ID Lybia Mercado mailto:caramel@pinacolada.net Lynette McCauley mailto:lynmc@one.net.au _ Brisbane,Queensland,Australia Lynn May mailto:artemis@worlddrive.com Lynne Giles mailto:AGiles7207@aol.com _ NE Tennessee Maghavat mailto:ed9@uclink4.berkeley.edu Manuel Viloria mailto:spiritweb@viloria.com Margaret Mary-Theresa Brown mailto:BROWNMM@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU Margaret Stewart mailto:kism3t@uswest.net Maria da Concei_"o L.. Mariah MacEnucaire mailto:dcs@comteck.com Marie Mosher mailto:marie@vdot.net Marilyn A. Maple [June 19] mailto:marilynmaple@uswest.net _ Phoenix, Arizona Mark D Williams mailto:voxdoc@go.com Mark Fischer mailto:ozone@redrose.net Marquita Harris mailto:marquita@snowcrest.net Mary Day mailto:marcilliat@yahoo.com Mary S H Lee mailto:Mary_S_H_YEO@mpa.gov.sg _ Singapore Marylin A. Adams [September 21] mailto:BambieA@aol.com _ Bonaire, GA Marylyn J. Brown mailto:Marylynj@aol.com Matthew David Pearson mailto:mpearson@kuntrynet.com Medreth Thomas mailto:medreth@hotmail.com)_ http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/healbyspirit/ Meenakshi Suri mailto:connector_1@yahoo.com_ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3079/spirit.html Melanie Raymond mailto:melspirit@hotmail.com Mindy Burge mailto:burgem@essex1.com_ Sterling, Il_ ICQ 2876575 Mona Khalaf mailto:mona@Healer.zzn.com Monica mailto:jener8r@jps.net Nancy mailto:nancyrecipes@hotmail.com Nelda Manning mailto:nelda4u@bellsouth.net Nina Smith mailto:nina.v.smith@usa.net Norman Fleshman mailto:knowsis@earthlink.net Pam Oliver mailto:pjoliver@globe.net.nz Pascal LeBlanc mailto:illusio@nbnet.nb.ca__ Canada Patricia Roach mailto:parfos@highfiber.com_ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/http.//www.highfiber.com/~parfos Paul Padilla mailto:ppadilla@impactnet.com Paul Yu mailto:paulcyu@robotelnet.com Paula Collins mailto:WiteLite11@aol.com paula mersing mailto:pisslefart@hotmail.com_ http://www.angelfire.com/wv/pisslefart Penny Hughes mailto:trixie9@worldnet.att.net _ Jacksonville, Florida Peter Reich mailto:peter99_@yahoo.com_ http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/peterr/index.html Phillip Hertzke mailto:hertzke@flatirons.org__ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/ Polly Wainwright mailto:epiphany11@yahoo.com Puncepiousponeaous mailto:Elppaeht@aol.com Qadwi Bey mailto:QBey264450@aol.com R. Mark Steele mailto:msteele@execpc.com_ http://www.breakaway-systems.com/ Random mailto:Random61@aol.com Regine D mailto:regineM@bigfoot.com Rene K. Mueller mailto:kiwi@spiritweb.org__ Switzerland__ http://www.spiritweb.org/ Rev. Stanley B. Jon... Rhonda Rhose mailto:Biritzresi@aol.com Richard E. Audette [july 11] mailto:rea1@ont.com _ Plano,TX http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/_ Mediaring 1 972 4244838 Richard [12/10]& Sharon[4/27]Hoffman mailto:SHARRICH@webtv.net _ Arlington, Washington Rick Audette [july 11] mailto:raudette@southwesttest.com _ Richardson,TX http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ Rick Dorey mailto:RKDOREY@boisestate.edu Rishu Rishabh Shriva.. Roger Earnshaw mailto:earnro@merlin.net.au _ Clarendon South Australia Ron Mullins mailto:ron_donna@earthlink.net Ron Wallachy [October 20th] mailto:RDWALLAC@aol.com _ Portland Or. Samu Karlsson [march 4] mailto:samu3@dlc.fi __ Porvoo,Finland http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3__ http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.html__ http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives.html__ ICQ 16569171 Sanna Hanskala mailto:sannah@earthlink.net __ Durham, North Carolina http://home.earthlink.net/~sannah/ Schuyler Roche mailto:skye@hcc.ac.kr_ S. Korea Sebastian Schadler mailto:sschadler@sc-stitz.de __ Germany Sergio Correa mailto:scorrea@jps.net Shaila Pacheco mailto:charjol@podernet.com.mx__ Mexico Shania Nelson mailto:sshine88@hotmail.com Sharon Briggs mailto:herbs4u@cyberhighway.net Sharon Jorgenson [March 13] mailto:jorgen@flash.net __ 50m E. of Dallas,TX Sharri Lorraine [Aug. 2] mailto:l456819@idt.net __ Seattle, Washington http://www.skdesigns.com/internet/articles/healing/healing_keys.html sheena p. raba mailto:sheena_raba@yahoo.com Sheridan.j.le.Fanu mailto:sheridan78@hotmail.com Steven E. Graves mailto:graves_stephen@hotmail.com Steve Mark mailto:pedmar@flash.net _ Arlington,TX Susan (Susi) Alexander mailto:susi@healinghearth.com_ Victor, MT _ http://www.healinghearth.com Suzan Griffith mailto:SGriff1212@aol.com Sylvia Miller mailto:gooofball8@yahoo.com tajue mailto:LBPCMT@aol.com Tatyana Koziupa mailto:tkoziu@po-box.mcgill.ca_ Canada Teresa Denney mailto:Tessden@aol.com Terrance R. Brennan mailto:TeKnoBabL@aol.com __ Milwaukee,Wisconsin Terry Wasserleben mailto:twasser@geocities.com Thomas s. zolotor mailto:QuasarAZx@aol.com Thor Holm mailto:thorho@powertech.no__ Norway Tina Roberts mailto:Celestail3@aol.com Tom Putman Tony Laforcarde mailto:KRYSTAL5@prodigy.net Tracey Hobson [October 20th] mailto:THobson@altera.com_ LosGatos,CA Travis Tabbal mailto:bigboss@xmission.com Tsai Tsung Lung mailto:u8632504@cc.Nctu.EDU.TW__ Taiwan Vignir Jonsson mailto:viggi@ismennt.is "viggi"__ Iceland WS Porter mailto:WSPorter@aol.com Werner alfons rodrig...??? White Light mailto:whitelgt@bellsouth.net__ http://www.psynet.net/sacredgarden Wolfgang Matthews [April 8] mailto:wolfgang.matthews@virgin.net _ Ockham, United Kingdom Xavier mailto:xavier22@club-internet.fr __ Paris,France__ ICQ 24617686 Y.Charlie boost Yvonne Pisz mailto:ypisz@email.msn.com Zia mailto:zia_19@hotmail.com_ ICQ 37379207 Zolo Y. mailto:zolo123@yahoo.com Total 206 members The following site will take you to Spiritwebs list of our members. You can click on the names and get more information and bios on those that have provided it. http://www.spiritweb.org/cgi/ml.cgi?list=keys-l&passwd=immortal&desc=1 -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6724 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering rapter wrote: "If I understand correctly 'gathering' is meaning to come together to join or bond with others in a molecular relationship of however many you have. 2-12-24 or combinations thereof 50-70-whatever you have in a certain area." Hi Donna, Your email reminded me about the teaching that JJ gave concerning the Gathering a few months ago. For the sake of newer people on the list, I thought I'd repost JJ's thoughts - "One of the greatest of the ancient prophecies is the Gathering. The sages of ages past have sought it and many have failed. Even Jesus lamented that he was not able to carry it out. He said: Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Jesus came with peaceable miracles and attempted to gather multitudes out of Israel, but they would not hear. In His heart He very much wanted to create a great leap in spiritual evolution through the gathering principle, but the time was not yet ripe. We are now fortunate to be living in an age where a spiritual gathering of lights is indeed possible. If it is successful heaven and earth shall be brought together, first at a point, then at points and finally many points and communities. When this happens the miraculous will be common place and communion with the higher spheres will be based in reality instead of illusion. In the beginning of the human race people gathered into families and finally into tribes. The tribe offered many benefits over individual struggle. This included protection from enemy tribes and greater success in gathering food. The second state of human gathering took place when the tribes gathered into kingdoms and were ruled by a central authority. Even though subjects were abused by the King, many of the tribes voluntarily sought to be a part of a kingdom because of the benefits. The standard of living increased, trade increased, learning increased and protection from the enemy increased. In the third stage of the human gathering there were many evolved souls that rebelled against the strong authority of a kingdom (or king) and sought greater freedom and a form of self rule. To make way for this gathering a new land had to be discovered for anyone seeking to build a new nation in the midst of the present kingdoms would be destroyed before a gathering could begin. To make way for this third gathering a new land was discovered, which was, of course, the Western Hemisphere, more particularly America. After this discovery the new country became a magnet for people who sought a better way of life and more freedom. As these lights gathered in America they found that the old system of the Kingdoms was too restricting and no longer satisfying. It was not long before the thinkers among them put their heads together and created a better system of self government with greater participation of the common people. Now we are approaching the time of the fourth gathering. The place and the means will soon be revealed. The results of the fourth gathering will bring many great changes in our evolution. Her are some of them. 1. Greater contact with the spiritual planes 2. A shift from competitive enterprise and commerce to a more cooperative one. 3. Greater financial abundance for all. 4. A shift from representative government to democracy with a greater involvement of the people. 5. Those who are leaders will be the greater lights rather than the greater personality. 6. Much greater health and vitality of the populace. 7. Quantum improvements in education 8. The creation of a new and higher life form through the Molecular Relationship. As I said we will cover the gathering in greater detail later but first we shall move on to the Molecular Relationship. You have probably heard the adage "as above so below" and "as below so above." In the evolution of the molecules, atoms gathered into certain positions and relationships and created a substance greater than themselves, yet did not lose their identity. For instance hydrogen and oxygen in a separate condition are ingredients of rocket fuel. But when two atoms of hydrogen combine with one atom of oxygen something amazing happens. A new more evolved substance is produced which is water. The interesting thing about water is that it is totally different than oxygen or hydrogen in the separate condition. Water is a higher grade of substance more capable of benefiting higher lives than hydrogen or oxygen alone. The interesting thing is that even though oxygen and hydrogen are now a part of a higher substance and share the properties thereof, they still keep their identity and maintain the capacity to separate and go back to their original isolated position......" From memory, JJ told us in a later email that he didn't know where the Gatehring would take place, although I've teasingly told him it could only be New Zealand :-) Joseph Smith's revelation is interesting but I wouldn't be surprised if no one knows the exact location yet - well, none of us 'lower' mortals anyway :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?" -- Quentin Crisp Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6725 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT ..?? Angels .. Fallen and Otherwise Chris Wynter writes: "the tinglings you are experiencing throughout your body are your body awakening to that remembering ... underneath the layers and conditioning the beliefs, myths and legends you are an angel incarnate" Hi Chris I have read a couple of places on the net about the tingling of the body but you have given a new meaning to it. When I first began to have tingling in my hand and feet about 3 or 4 years ago, I went to my doctor and he put me on vitamin B12, saying that this is something that happens to "us older folks", we are short on B12. So I have diligently taken the vitamin but still have the tingling which now encompasses my whole body. Not a severe tingling....no pins or needles effect. I have grown so accustomed to it that it is now a normal part of me along with a weird feeling of "waving" like my feet are attached to a flag pole and I am the flag waving in the breeze. I feel like the real me is trying to be released from this heavy body. I told that to my doctor and he just looked at me with a most curious expression and said nothing. It makes sense...what you said about our being angels....that would make us physical angels here in 3D.....or is it an awareness of our soul? Although the 2 or 3 experiences I had before age 10 of truly being "aware of my soul"...I am looking out of these eyes but they are not MY eyes....that is what I thought back then...and the colors of the trees and the sky were brilliant. I asked my dad about it years later and he told me that I had been aware of my soul during those times. WOW....me......an angel.......all of us........angels Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6726 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Teacher Keith writes: "For most of my adolescent and adult life I have like many of you been searching for something just beyond my spiritual grasp. All this time (20 years) I have wondered why a teacher has never appeared to guide me upon this path. For I have read and heard many times that when the pupil is ready the teacher will come! I hope and pray that we have all found in J.J. Dewey a teacher of principles who will light the path a little so we may follow. When we follow it will not be blindly but with the knowledge of soul contact as our helmsmen." Hi Keith Ask and ye shall receive. This is the place you are looking for where you will learn how to look within and to "be all that you wish to become". And even if you "stick out your tongue at the president" no one will criticize or demean you. That is a bad example, but you know what I mean.....When I was little, sticking out one's tongue at another person was considered very naughty. LOL Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6727 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering "Also, could someone enlighten me as to who were/are the Masons and what they are all about? Donna Grant" Hi Donna Joseph Smith lead the Mormons, different from the Masons. He had a falling out with God after being given the Urim and Thummin to translate a lost holy book and lost them because of something he did. It's been a long time since I read the history. I can't remember the name of the next fellow to lead the Mormons....he led them to Independence, MO and they were subsequently run out of there also because people were very much afraid of them. They went west and stopped at what is now Salt Lake City, because it was determined that that was where New Jerusalem would be. This is not a lot, but I do hope it helps. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6728 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Glenys writes: "When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?" -- Quentin Crisp" What part of "there is only one God" don't people understand? Sadly, Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6729 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Hi Marylin, It is sad, isn't it? I've never been able to understand how a person could not believe in God. I look at nature, in the forests, mountains, etc. and see God's work. I look at cities and highways etc. and see man's work. Which is the greater? God knows no differences; it's man that sees a difference by the number of churches and beliefs. It's how we live our lives that matters, not what church we go to.(and I no longer go to church) Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6730 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Hi Diane Actually you and I are going to the same church daily......right here on the list. Jesus said, "Where two or more are gathered together, there will I be also." A church is not a building....it is a gathering of people....doesn't matter where they gather. This is the only church I attend....I grew tired of fancy buildings and folks who are dressed to the kilt long ago. Tithing is more than just money...it is also a giving of 10% of our time, love, compassion and more. And what is this 10% except something that Abraham had said he would give to his workers in the fields and pastures. He didn't just say money, he said of "his goods". Oh, what a dark hole we humans have dug for ourselves. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6731 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering That's very true Marylin. We do "attend" church here every day. I hadn't thought of it in that way but it's true. As a child, I spent much of my time down by the river and creeks and exploring the woods. I always felt closer to God there than in the church I attended each Sunday. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6732 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn Dear Marylin ... this tingling moving through the body is quite common within people who have been on the spiritual path ... It is the awakening within the body to the truth of itself ... and I have found, that, perhaps unfortunately, this energy movement can be easily misunderstood ... and is feared by some ... There are various explanations and names for it .. I prefer the simplest approach possible .. Some call this energy Kundalini Some call it the Holy Spirit within .. It is not to be feared ... quite simply It is the re-union of the 'spiritual' with the physical in such a way that the holding patterns of beliefs within the physical body are gently being released .. If you want more information on this (from my perspective) then you are welcome to ask .. and you might also check with Suzi .. who, I think, has read some of my words on this subject Don't be surprised if there are twitches and the occasional jerks (especially when deeply relaxed like just drifting off to sleep Its all OK ... just like the feelings of heat and cold that come with it .. that some have already mentioned on this list .. That is NOT psychic stuff to be dismissed .. Christopher Wynter Ps .. I'm very familiar with this from my own experience from my past teachers and from the experiences of people in my group ... Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6733 From: "Aley" Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn I have noticed in this past while an enormous increase in seeing things and an increase in seeing auric colours around myself and others Anyone else experiencing the same thing in this past few weeks Aley Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6734 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: Re: Colours .... Aley Another normal byproduct of the energy .. Aley ... not uncommon with deep meditation ... and with the beginning of awakening ... Part of you knows the meaning of what you are seeing .. can you trust yourself enough to ask yourself .. rather than others (or books) You would not be able to "see" if you were not ready ... nor if you did not already have the answers Christopher Ps .. I have found (and others here may disagree with me) that comparison can sometimes be detrimental .. Your revelation is your revelation .. your understanding is your understanding Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6735 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn Aley wrote: "Anyone else experiencing the same thing in this past few weeks" Yes, I've noticed more around myself too. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6736 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn "Don't be surprised if there are twitches and the occasional jerks (especially when deeply relaxed like just drifting off to sleep" Hi Chris Now that you mention it, I have been having occasional jerks when going to sleep. I am not afraid of it. I have chosen to become accustomed to it and try to use it during meditation. I felt deep within that it had to do with my spiritual self, but now you have explained how it does. Thank you very much. What I needed to know was that I am not alone in this. I will remember what you have suggested. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6737 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn I have this happen quite often while I'm lying down about to sleep. My arm or leg will just jerk outward without warning. Usually it's my arm but the other night my leg really kicked outward and fast. I never gave it this kind of meaning before. Occasionally my arm will knock my glass off the stand next to the bed. "Its all OK ... just like the feelings of heat and cold that come with it .. that some have already mentioned on this list .." This feeling of hot and cold is fairly new too. Is it common to have this occur more often in one place such as my arm? From a very early age, I have felt the "touch" of someone unseen. Just a light touch on my arm or leg and I've always thought it was someone I knew that had died or my angel. And then there's the hair raising feeling when I've heard something that is *true*. A sort of goose bumps all over type of feeling. This can also bring a chill as well as the goose bumps. "That is NOT psychic stuff to be dismissed .." Thanks for the information Christopher. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6738 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Tingling ... Marilyn "I have noticed in this past while an enormous increase in seeing things and an increase in seeing auric colours around myself and others Anyone else experiencing the same thing in this past few weeks Aley" I have not seen colors very often except around trees and houses, but I have seen strange things in the sky. Pyramid shaped clouds is large groups at a time, faces many times (I like to think of them as angels watching us) I snapped a couple of pictures that I am calling "UFO Parking Lot" because of the way the clouds were placed in the sky.......hmmmmmm. Unfortunately, I don't know how to scan them in and my daughter has been too busy on the computer at night to do it for me. 'nough of that. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6739 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Advice Needed Last night, while watching a movie, i laid my head back, closed my eyes & i was instantly out of my body, I was not mediating, just resting. I didn't really go anywhere, just seemed to wander around my house & property. As a child & teen-ager i did this often in response to danger, i simply left the body on its own, but when i go to NJ i do so with purpose, this was spontaneous, after a walk around i simply re-entered the body. I just can't figure this out, there was no danger. If anyone has an opinion i would very much appreciate hearing it. love to all, a very confused sharon Post No keys-l: /1999-09-13/6740 From: Jean Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering I agree totally Diane. It is a shame that we live in a society that people can not believe in God, or have to believe what ever there church tells them to believe. I am amazed at how many people I have talked to that think that each church worship a different God, they are so clueless to the truth! If people would only open there eyes and see! I believe that all religions have truth in them, some more so than others. If we could only take what we learn in each one and think and ponder and question, and then and only then follow our hearts, that is where all our answers would be! Oh well enough rambling on from me..:) (sheepish) Talk to all of you soon, Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6741 From: Jean Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering You are very right Marylin, where two or more are gathered Jesus is here...I think sometimes on these lists we learn more and reflect more on God than in church. As you said too many people now a days go to see who is there, what they are wearing, etc, etc, etc. It is a dark hole we dug.....I think it is up to people such as ourselves to slowly bring the true traditions back (such as word of mouth, or in this case email :) ). It has to start here, start sharing it with friends and family, let it spread....... It is possible, it started with twelve disciple ....and now millions are aware....I think the 200 and some people on this list can do the same... Love and blessings, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6742 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: OT Advice Needed Greetings to All, Hi Sharon, I feel what you have written is very natural and normal. What is wonderful is that you are fully conscious of leaving and returning to your body and remembering what has occurred. It seems to me you were in a happy naturally relaxed state, and allowed yourself to explore. I have found that as we allow ourselves this we will explore our home in detail, it's surroundings and continue to branch out from there. Perhaps you were just observing thoughts about your home in your mind and your body followed to where your conscious was directed. Going to NJ or any level for that matter is the same, where consciousness is placed the body (or different bodies) will follow. When I am in focus and I hear my dog bark, I often go to him desiring in a sense to see out of his eyes what he is seeing (mainly because I am too happy and lazy where I am - I have always said laziness is the mother of invention!), and have done exactly that, boy does a dog bounce around as it is running!!! Felt like I was riding on his shoulder or head, and very bumping along! Naturally I could see what he was seeing and laughed in delight at the bunny rabbit he was chasing! I feel one day we will truly start to have fun with our God-given abilities and delight in the world in such a different way. Perhaps you will come visit me and check out the spectacular view of Mount Rainier!! See you soon!! In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6743 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Marylin wrote: "I can't remember the name of the next fellow to lead the Mormons...." Brigham Young. One of the men I most admire in history. I'm certain that he was inspired. It's too bad they let the original teachings of Joseph and Brigham slowly disappear. "what is now Salt Lake City, because it was determined that that was where New Jerusalem would be." New Jerusalem is actually believed to be in Jackson, Missouri. The Church has bought so much land down in that area, that they almost own the entire city now. In the last days, they intend on moving the Church headquarters and many of its members there. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6744 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Greetings to All, Hi Diane and Jean, it seems to me there is an interesting phenomena perpetrated in not only Churches but in our education system. That is the determination of those in 'authority' to tell and supposedly teach others 'WHAT to think'. For me the focus has changed from 'what to think' as to 'HOW to think'. Such a vast difference. In the 'how to think' learning to reason, listening to that still small voice within, and making choices from this base of 'how to think', creates leaders rather than the followers of 'what to think' and all thinking the same from that perspective. The churches are like so many institutions, in many ways just like finding out what love is, through learning what it is not, perhaps the churches provide that same golden opportunity. The gift is truly thinking for ourselves, being fully conscious ourselves, and thus determining our goals, direction in life, and achievements according to our own God-given self-determination. In love and laughter, ZIA Jean wrote: "I agree totally Dianne. It is a shame that we live in a society that people can not believe in God, or have to believe what ever there church tells them to believe." Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6745 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Joseph Smith's Gathering Dave Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I had forgotten that. I certainly hope they don't wait too long to move........ Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6746 From: Ed Fernandez Subject: Re: Please allow me to introduce myself... Hi Sylvia! So what kind of meditation did you teach? Love, Maghavat Sylvia wrote: "I've spent three years studying and practicing Eastern teachings, and I have taught meditation and yoga." Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6747 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Advice Needed Thank you Zia, what you say makes sense, it's just been so long since I did that it seemed very strange. We have been having cougar sightings lately, but didn't even have those last night. i guess this is one of those "don't worry about it, just let it flow" area's. i would love to "drop" in on you one day & see grandfather. watch for me. love to all, no longer so confused, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6748 From: Laura Subject: Re: Religious Differences (was: Joseph Smith's Gathering) How interesting - I've been having an off-topic conversation with another keyster that has been running along the same lines. I personally was raised in a non-denominational church and was taught that all *Christian* religions and the Jewish religion worshipped the same God. All others worshipped Satan. As I grew older I realized that such a narrow-minded view of the world didn't really apply in real life and grew to believe that *somehow, somewhere* all religions just HAD to tie together at a point, a common thread. Religions are merely vehicles for the human persona to find its way to the higher plane, in my opinion. Whether you take the Catholic vehicle, Buddhist, Wiccan, Jewish, Hindu, etc., you will make your way to that place that we will all hopefully end up when it all comes down to it. The path you take is of no consequence and there are nuggets of truth in each religion. What truly matters is that you 'follow your highest' and continue on that path that is right for you. This is why I'm so excited about what I read in The Immortal and what I've been reading on the list and in the archives. I knew that the tie between faiths had to exist, but couldn't for the life of me figure out where it was. This helps tremendously. Where before I was frightened and confused about following the path I thought was right (and yet part of me was condemning myself to hell for the path not being traditional Christian faith), I am now eager to move forward and looking to the future with happiness and hope. Love & Light to all keysters present & future, Laura Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6749 From: Sylvia Miller Subject: Re: Please allow me to introduce myself... Ed Fernandez wrote: "So what kind of meditation did you teach?" It is an ancient set of techniques that my Teacher brought back from India. The legend is that there is a monastic order founded by John the apostle, via directions from Jesus, in the Himalayas.(Thus my ears perked during conversations with John in The Immortal) Supposedly Jesus taught these techniques to his apostles, but not to the general public because they weren't ready for such a rapid growth in consciousness. The Ishaya monks (Isha=Christ; ya=or) have maintained these techniques for 2000 years and are making them available now to bring in higher consciousness for the new millennium. The current name for these teachings is The Ishayas' Ascension, and I've found their philosophy to be similar to Budhism. Sylvia Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6750 From: J J Dewey Subject: Strange Days Aley writes: "I have noticed in this past while an enormous increase in seeing things and an increase in seeing auric colours around myself and others. Anyone else experiencing the same thing in this past few weeks." I notice that several others are having paranormal experiences. Our group energy has indeed affected all who are actively participating through the Song, the NJ meditation and energizing loving thoughts. I know my sensitivity has increased and I have been seeing things I have never seen before. I also feel an increase in vibration. My advice is to just jump in the waters, explore and enjoy. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6751 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: Oneness thru Fire AND Religious Differences Good morning Family, How I miss you all on the weekends. I am trying to play catch up here on my lunch break (had like 80 new messages when I came in this AM). First I want to say something in response to what JJ said here: "As you enter the world of oneness in the Spirit it will seem to come and go like the wind and when it does sweep over your spirit (like a wave as you aptly express it) you will feel like weeping with joy. Now in the normal emotional realm I have to have some overwhelming occurrence to cause me to shed tears, but when the higher feelings of the Spirit come and I sense the wave I immediately feel the tears of joy coming and I have no desire to hold back as I often do in the with regular emotional response." I had a warm wave of wind wash over me in an AA meeting one morning, listening to something the speaker said that just really resounded within me as being true. When I told my sponsor, she got goosebumps because the exact same thing has happened to her before as well. I guess that happens when people are speaking the language of the heart. Also, with regard to religious differences, I heard someone say in a meeting once that there are many paths, all leading to the same place. Works for me! And it seems to be true as well. After all, isn't it in the Bible somewhere that it says "All who seek me shall find me"? One last thing (for right now) is that my assignment at this particular employer is up at the end of this week (the lady has returned from maternity leave). As of this moment, I have no new place to work. You all have been MORE than a blessing in sending me light (and EMPLOYMENT) in the past. I hope you won't mind my asking for help once again. This being "one paycheck away from the streets" is not my idea of a good time (even if it is increasing my faith). The good news is that, as yet, I haven't been dropped on my head - on the contrary, I keep landing on my feet! Which is GREAT! Operating on the belief that it never hurts to ask, here I am... asking! Again! Anyway, I have to catch up on these postings. Thanks in advance (cuz I know how wonderful you all are!). xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6752 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Love To Tracy Tracy, we send love & prayers to light your way to the perfect place of employment, not just a job but some place of real joy. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6753 From: Xavier Subject: Re: Religious Differneces (was: Joseph Smith's Gathering) Laura writes: "This is why I'm so excited about what I read in The Immortal and what I've been reading on the list and in the archives. I knew that the tie between faiths had to exist, but couldn't for the life of me figure out where it was. This helps tremendously. Where before I was frightened and confused about following the path I thought was right (and yet part of me was condemning myself to hell for the path not being traditional Christian faith), I am now eager to move forward and looking to the future with happiness and hope." Hmm, so maybe you need to know that the one religion and philosophy has been taught in the western world by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice Ann Bailey. JJ often quotes AA Bailey, and his teaching *someway* starts from Bailey's and add something more. I'll let others and JJ correct me, but, as you say: "but couldn't for the life of me figure out where it was" ...I think I have to tell. BTW, all the current new age movement, that bears such one religion value, derives from the two women mentioned above;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6754 From: Norman Fleshman Subject: When 2 or more are gathered Might be interesting to ponder whether or not Jesus is only present when 2 or more are gathered together in His name.....?????? Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6755 From: Sylvia Miller Subject: My dream last night. I had the most wonderful dream last night. I feel like this is a major breakthrough for me, and with everyone sharing phenomenon, I thought I'd share mine! Last night I did a new meditation for the first time that mainly consisted of bringing in white and gold light and opening my 3rd eye. The dream started in my room. I had the door closed and locked but there were sections of the door missing and holes in it. I could see a large built man approaching and trying to get in. He reached his arms through the holes and opened my door. The strange thing is that I wasn't scared, but I didn't want him near me. He wrestled me to the ground and ran his hand over my forehead. Then he left. I knew that he had blocked my 3rd eye. I went to visit some of my spiritual friends (some I recognized and some I didn't) and told them what happened and made it clear that I wanted to join with them, representing the light. They basically said that I need to decide to do that, and I thought I had but I hadn't. I wanted to, but that still wasn't making the shift happen. Just then, the same aggressive huge man came into the room and was coming for me again. I was frustrated, what could I do that I hadn't done already?! Just then I prayed for God to help me decide. I instantly felt empowered and turned to face him. I pinched him between my thumb and my forefinger, shrinking him to a speck, then flicked him like a bug! Then I woke up. Needless to say, I woke up excited and refreshed! Sylvia Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6756 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: My Dreaam Last Night Oh Sylvia, what a wonderful and self-impowering realization, i just can't call it a dream. I feel that more and more we on this list are sharing and generating an energy we have not manifested before. We must have made a pact in our last lifetime to come together in this lifetime to decide to remember all that we had forgotten for so many lifetimes before and the energy seems to be picking up more and more steam every day. (get this girl to an English teacher, quick), but i feel you know what i'm saying. more and more events are happening in an almost synchronized fashion, I leave my body spontaneously & consciously & re-enter the same way, Sylvia takes back her power, and I'll bet more have similar stories. There must be a large cheering section watching us grow. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6757 From: Jean Subject: Re: Religious Differences (was: Joseph Smith's Laura, just for the fact that we all try, is what I feel puts us on the right path, the desire to do right! Love and blessings, Jean My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6758 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered Where love is there has to be 2 or more. Soul is the seat of love. Souls are always found in groups. Christ is not present but among grouped souls and is only present among grouped personalities on account of their souls. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESTOERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6759 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered .. Paul ... Dear Paul ... Can I suggest another "esoteric" perception that comes to me from this quote ... If I allow that I am fragmented into body, mind, soul, and various personality archetypes ... If 2 or more 'fragments' of I are gathered together with the focus on the 'Christ mind" Would not then the Christ be manifest also ... My feeling is that each message should be internalised within the multitudinous aspects that make up the self .. yet we have been trained and conditioned to live at a distance from I, the self ... of which all else is a reflection ... As I live at a distance from ' I ' outside ' self ', ' I ' must search for like minded 'other' If ' I ' and ' other ' are within self and I am aware of that ... Then with that focus, "two or more are gathered together in 'Christ's name'" therefore the internal Christ is there also Christopher Wynter Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6760 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: When Two Or More Are Gathered Thank you, Christopher & Paul, you have expressed my thoughts wonderfully and better than i ever could have. do you suppose this is where the me, myself & i concept originated? love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6761 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered .. Paul ... Greetings to All, and to Christopher and Paul, just another thought, when we are of a split mind, not one mind in the mind of God... is it not two, and therefore would the Christ be present to bring us into ONE mind, awaiting our call in a sense? Perhaps better put, anything above one requires Christ's presence to bring us back into oneness? In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-13/6761 From: "John Wayne Kline" Subject: OT Hello all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it would seem time is ripe to introduce myself. Least important is that my name is John Wayne Kline, I'm 47 years of age, born in St. Louis, Mo October 25th, 1951. I now live in a secluded area in the Ozarks sixty-five miles southwest of St. Louis. I've been a Mystic all my life, and have studied every Ancient, and Modern Religion, Belief, and Philosophy, that I could lay hands on. I was raised in a family that taught me all the ways of the Beast. They consciously chose the path of their own free will. I thank them, as they were my best teachers in life, and prepared me for much of the same in later life. They taught me everything in life that I choose not to be. I admit that when I first came to the list I was suspicious as usual. I had read the Immortal and it had touched me in a special way, but still I had to be sure that no one was waiting for the Mother Ship! or Lao Tzu to return from his home planet of Pluto, which by the way came as quiet a shock to me when I read it recently. When reading the Immortal I had soul confirmation throughout the book. The only rational explanation would have been that JJ was the reincarnation of Davie Crocket, which was rejected. After studying Joseph's writings and completing over five hundred, I found not one, that I could take any issue with. I recognized the Ancient Flame, clothed in new light, with child. I e-mailed Joseph a number of times, and he was very helpful as I drudged along. Then we began "Into The Light" and our study of New Jerusalem, and this is where I may have a hard time expressing myself. My only reason for writing this is that it may help some on the path that are having some problems of their own, and testify to what can happen if you enter with an open heart, and mind. During the initial meditation I was instructed clearly to enter a certain portal, located at certain coordinates, when ready. I wasn't at that time, and waited until the time felt right. When the impulse came I continued and entered through the portal without problem. I sensed something, a word, but it had no meaning at that time. After arriving at my room things became much clearer. After working creatively in the room for a while, I was drawn to the wall, and there placed my hands. The wall dissolved, and I found myself looking at a beautiful young woman, in white robe, with hair the color of golden harvest wheat, and streaks of auburn scintillating under the play of light. Her countenance was radiant, she had porcelain features, and wore a beautifully engraved gold Celtic Torc about her neck. I immediately knew that she had incredible unrealized potential which she would become aware of in the near future. I knew immediately that she was not there yet, but would arrive soon. It was like meeting and old, and dear friend. We proceeded into another room and there joined in an unbroken circle with the group, she on my right. Everything went perfectly until Christ took the form of my father, but that was easily resolved, I loved him dearly, and it was the only thing I had ever wanted from him, and the only thing that he refused to give, yet we had chosen our paths long ago. Then I was alone with the Christ. I heard the words clearly, enter herein, and leave the dead, to bury the dead. As soon as I entered therein everything in my life became as clear as a crystal. I thought after many long battles I had freed myself from illusion, but it was laid bare. I saw every hidden thing which had evaded my searchlight, and dealt with them immediately, rather than later. Then came the greatest shock of all,. I saw the Critical Mission that lay ahead, and realized that I had doubt of its success. How many times had doubt left me an invalid? Memories of defeats on a thousand battlefields came to me in an instant. I instantly made a conscious decision, with Intention. Then came an understanding that these defeats were but the structure that success is built on. I saw the future, and the molecule will be established in strength, and harmonized, and many more will follow. The molecule is already established at a higher level and growing stronger as we do, and awaits it's appointed time.. Once this is done a great transformation will immediately begin, and it's beyond our wildest imagination. My mission became crystal clear, and the first part was to support Joseph in every way possible, to act as a support unit. Joseph's mission is critical, and not one of us can complete ours, until his is concluded successfully, and established in strength. I won't go into anymore here because it is beyond my ability at this time, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. After I got my feet fully back on the ground it was like remembering a dream piece, by piece. I can't explain much of it, nor will I attempt to. Memories, and information have flooded me, and as soon as I digest those, more are instantly added, as I can assimilate them. They're like the scattered pieces of a puzzle that I have to put together. One of those was the word that came to me as I entered through the Portal. I saw it, read it, heard it in the silence, and yet couldn't remember having done it, yet I knew it!. It baffled me for several days because I couldn't find it in any book. I e-mailed Joseph and ask his assistance. No email returned from him, but I still received the message. Get it through the principle. I wrote Joseph again informing him I received his message and it was the only darn thing I couldn't seem to get that way. An e-mail soon arrived with some of Joseph's notes and the moment I read it the 'word' exploded in my consciousness like a flash of Bhramic Bliss. It had two meanings, both positive, and negative. The negative was a perfect summary of my upbringing, and life, and what I had fought so hard to rise above. The positive was a perfect summary of what I had become, and revealed to me my true purpose, or destiny in life. For the first time in 47 years I had crystal clear direction. I knew exactly where I was going, and what I was to do, and had absolutely no fear of failure. I even knew exactly where to place the tree, in the grove to the degree, which was from a lesson I had not yet seen, or studied. I can only say that it requires the skills of visualization, and imagination to begin to make your place in New Jerusalem. Then it becomes like the Dreamer, becoming the Dream. The subject becomes the object. There is only one, and that one has nearly unlimited freedom to control the dream, in fact they have total conscious control of the dream, but it's a waking dream in reality. What was born of thought, and imagination then takes form as a reality. I and my vision, are one! Rapture is the only word that comes to mind, and it's a poor definition of the experience! There is no way to explain the emotions that are confronted and dealt with. The wind is certainly in your eyes. I won't go any deeper into this because that's not what I wanted to say, but was the best I could get to come forth. Maybe JJ will elaborate more on this in the future. He has covered it in the recent past. The next morning I read the posts, and one seized my attention. It just spoke to me. I didn't think twice about contacting her, or if she thought I was a lunatic. My instructions were clear. I found a person far, far beyond her years, and have been working with her since. What I expected her to grasp in a week, she grasps in a day. She was still catching up on the posts, and hadn't arrived at the New Jerusalem Meditation, when I first contacted her. She may or may not be my working partner, but my instructions were clear - make her ready, she will soon face a great challenge. As a test of receiving ability I wrote two words on a slip of paper and cast them to the four winds. They concerned some information that I had been working on, and intended to send her later. I contacted her and ask her if she had received any messages. She said "Why do I keep getting Doubting Thomas?" The information I had been preparing concerned Jesus, and the Apostle Thomas. Those were the two exact words I'd sent. This morning while reading the posts I noticed that something was changing dramatically. There is a great deal more light coming through everyone of you, compared to the recent past. Henry Ford said "If you believe you can do something your right. If you believe you can't your still right." Is there any doubt what made Ford an Initiate? How many of us have that lurking doubt in the back of our minds, that we can't succeed? How many of us have it, and don't realize it, or won't admit it? How many of us are paralyzed with unfounded fear, or guilt from the past? How many of us truly realize the magnitude, of the mission we are embarking on, or how blessed we are to be a part of it? How many recognize the need to commit the Prayer to memory, word for word, as given by John, to Joseph, and his wife, and carry it therein, as second nature? It is like a server we all log into, and we must use exactly the same log in, or modem commands. How many feel this is a game, or a dream we going to wake up from? The Divine Comedy is that, it is just that, but not the way we expect. We are all awakening, from the waking dream, into a new reality, of which we can't yet conceive of in our wildest imagination! I would like to tell you a lot more about these experiences, but fear it would be counter productive. You must each experience your own, in your own way. Nothing is as important as Joseph's Teaching's continuing on schedule without interruption, and this writing is way to long to begin with, which I apologize for. I sincerely hope no one takes offense, at anything said here, or out of context. Words often conceal far more than they reveal. You have to read between the lines, even more than you read the words. One principle IS of more worth, than a million useless words, but our teacher has taught us that already, hasn't he? "All things in Moderation, even Moderation!" "Be Ye as Wise as the Serpents, and as Bright as the Flame." In Love, Light, and Power Shyama Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6763 From: J J Dewey Subject: Gentle Wind John, Your all too short posting stirred up the gentle wind of the Spirit that blew softly across my face. Thank You. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6764 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT - John (Shyama) Hi John (or do you prefer Shyama?) It doesn't seem appropriate welcoming you to the list as you've been lurking for awhile so I'll content myself by welcoming your 'coming out'. :-) Thank you for sharing your wonderful experience with the New Jerusalem meditation. It was obviously a very powerful experience - life changing even. It was great to see that you have already met a possible spiritual partner as a result and I wish you both well. I was so heartened to read your comments on JJ because I share your view that he is a very important teacher for those who have ears to hear. His teachings have changed my life and like you, given me the direction that I'd spent most of my life searching for. I had got to the stage where I had decided that as a teacher had not appeared after a lifetime of dedicated searching, then it must mean that I didn't need one. Then JJ appeared on the scene quite by chance (it appeared) and because I had already decided that there was to be no teacher for me, I didn't recognize him as such for some time, even though my admiration for him grew almost on a daily basis. But one day, it dawned on me that he was the teacher I had always been looking for and I haven't looked back since. I agree that he has important work to achieve and have no doubt that he will succeed. His depth of commitment to the Plan, his love for mankind and his desire to serve will ensure that he will complete his task. And his teachings have empowered me to believe that I will achieve my life mission also. That alone will make me treasure JJ for aeons. I'm sure he has had the same effect on others as well and that is one of the reasons why we are growing in unity and love for one another. So thank you JJ for the wonderful gift of love you have given us, and thank you John for reminding us of it :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- People wish to be settled: only as far as they are unsettled is there any hope for them. - Emerson Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6765 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Oneness thru Fire AND Religious Differences Tracey Hobson wrote: "One last thing (for right now) is that my assignment at this particular employer is up at the end of this week (the lady has returned from maternity leave). As of this moment, I have no new place to work. You all have been MORE than a blessing in sending me light (and EMPLOYMENT) in the past. I hope you won't mind my asking for help once again. This being "one paycheck away from the streets" is not my idea of a good time (even if it is increasing my faith). The good news is that, as yet, I haven't been dropped on my head - on the contrary, I keep landing on my feet! Which is GREAT! Operating on the belief that it never hurts to ask, here I am... asking! Again!" Ask away, dear Tracey! You know how we all love to help each other :-) You, and your employment situation, are in my prayers. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- People wish to be settled: only as far as they are unsettled is there any hope for them. - Emerson Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6766 From: Xavier Subject: Re: OT John Wayne Kline writes: "Hello all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it would seem time is ripe to introduce myself..." First, your name is strong, like you, it's not the least important of things as you said. Second, you really bring support, and address precise issues I deal with, much summarized in Ford's quote. Thank you very much;-) "according to what I think in my heart" I am unable to join in service. To say it, as now, is already a help and a lifting. MY last months have seen a big improvement in my heart and action (those come together;-)) I hope.. it's not enough, it is decision that awaits to be taken. I am focused on my daily physical responsibility (loving one, such a present) because this is where things go ahead more or less quickly. The thrust level pad? ;-) Your post is received inwardly, it stirs little personal response, I mean that most of the effect it produces doesn't stir comment, it is absorbed, and leaves no marks in the person, but feeds the "soul". C ya:-)) Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6767 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: OT John Wayne Kline wrote: "Hello all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it would seem time is ripe to introduce myself. Least important is that my name is John Wayne Kline, I'm 47 years of age, born in St. Louis, Mo October 25th, 1951. I now live in a secluded area in the Ozarks sixty- five miles southwest of St. Louis." "This morning while reading the posts I noticed that something was changing dramatically. There is a great deal more light coming through everyone of you, compared to the recent past." Much snippage of a great post: "How many of us have that lurking doubt in the back of our minds, that we can't succeed? How many of us have it, and don't realize it, or won't admit it? How many of us are paralyzed with unfounded fear, or guilt from the past? How many of us truly realize the magnitude, of the mission we are embarking on, or how blessed we are to be a part of it? How many recognize the need to commit the Prayer to memory, word for word, as given by John, to Joseph, and his wife, and carry it therein, as second nature? It is like a server we all log into, and we must use exactly the same log in, or modem commands. How many feel this is a game, or a dream we going to wake up from? The Divine Comedy is that, it is just that, but not the way we expect. We are all awakening, from the waking dream, into a new reality, of which we can't yet conceive of in our wildest imagination!" Your questions here mirror my own lately. "I would like to tell you a lot more about these experiences, but fear it would be counter productive. You must each experience your own, in your own way. Nothing is as important as Joseph's Teaching's continuing on schedule without interruption, and this writing is way to long to begin with, which I apologize for." Wonderful de-lurking post. I really enjoyed reading it. It left me wanting to read more. While I agree with you that JJ's teachings are of utmost importance, I think that others' experiences are important too. It helps us to tie things together in ways of commonality. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6768 From: Marylin Subject: Re: My dream last night. Sylvia writes: "what could I do that I hadn't done already?! Just then I prayed for God to help me decide. I instantly felt empowered and turned to face him. I pinched him between my thumb and my forefinger, shrinking him to a speck, then flicked him like a bug! Then I woke up. Needless to say, I woke up excited and refreshed!" Hi Sylvia What a wonderful "spiritual" dream. Isn't it exquisite when our inner selves come through to guide us. Dreams can be such a wonderful means of "hearing and seeing". Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6769 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Test I just have a few minutes for a question or two: Donna Grant asks: "If I understand correctly 'gathering' is meaning to come together to join or bond with others in a molecular relationship of however many you have. 2-12-24 or combinations thereof 50-70-whatever you have in a certain area. "In Joseph Smith days they believed that they were to 'gather' to a specific spot namely, 'Independence Missouri' which would be the future location of the 'New Jerusalem'. "Do you have any comments! "Also, could someone enlighten me as to who were/are the Masons and what they are all about?" It was the design in that era to eventually gather in Independence Missouri. Joseph even predicted that it would happen in his generation, but the plan was frustrated by his premature death. It is interesting that Joseph was given an opportunity to pass the forth initiation of the Great Renunciation and an interesting test it was. He had found himself in dozens of hairbreadth escapes from death from his enemies so often in his life that the church members began to think he was invincible. Finally the governor of Illinois issued a warrant for his arrest for treason. He was beside himself what to do for he told his brother if he was ever arrested again he would be killed. At that moment of great concern he received a revelation. He was told that he was to save his life and to go west to the Oregon Territory and continue building the kingdom there. He took his brother and a couple men and escaped across the raging Missouri during a storm to Iowa. Shortly after being out of harm's way he received a letter from his wife. She told him that everyone in the church was calling him a coward, that unlike Christ, he was the shepherd who left his flock to fend for itself. Neighboring communities were threatening to kill the Mormons if he did not give himself up. After writing this even his own wife indicated to him she thought he should give himself up and that God would protect him. After he read the letter he shook his head and asked his brother, "What do you think? Should we go back?" His Brother Hyrum said: "We have been in situations like this before and God has delivered us. I think we should go back and things will work out again." "No," said Joseph. "It is different this time. If we go back we'll be butchered." Then he turned to his old friend and body guard Porter Rockwell. "What do you think? Should we go back?" "You're the prophet. You make the decision," said Porter. Hyrum grabbed the letter and read it. "It sounds like they all want us to come back whether we get killed or not to save their own selves. They'll think we are cowards if we do not return." Joseph felt extreme sorrow at this thought. He thought of all he had risked and given to the Saints (as they were called) and now his own followers were eager to sacrifice his life to save them from threats of neighbors that will probably not materialize. As this wave of overwhelming sorrow descended upon him his brother said: "We must go back. I will return with or without you." Now the pressure on Joseph was of monumental proportions. How would he look with his brother bravely facing the authorities without him? Everyone would surely call him a coward beyond redemption. Any past acts of courage would be quickly forgotten and he probably would not be deemed suitable to lead anyone. Joseph reflected a moment and said: "If my life is worth nothing to my friends, it is worth nothing to me. We shall returned, but we shall be slaughter. Indeed we are as lambs gong to the slaughter." They did indeed return and despite the promise of safety by the governor Joseph and Hyrum were shot by an angry mob that were allowed to break into the prison to get him. After he was shot the mob pulled his body next to a tree and shot him some more. There was a reward on his head and one of the mob went to his lifeless body and grabbed him by the head and was about to cut his head off when suddenly there was a sound out of nowhere like a cannon and a bolt of light hit him out of the clear blue sky and paralyzed his arm. Within seconds the mob dispersed in great fear leaving the slain brothers with their bodies at least intact. The interesting thing is that Joseph is greatly honored by the Mormons for his courage in voluntarily giving up his life, but what they do not realize is that this was not supposed to be. The Brotherhood had hopes he would pass this difficult test which was the opposite of Jesus facing the crucifixion. His test was to live even though the whole world thought he was the greatest coward on the earth. What he did not realize is that those who were still capable of soul contact would have followed him west and the power of the Spirit within him would have been stronger than ever because of his following the Holy Spirit in such difficult circumstances. Because of this failure he was not able to lead the saints back to Missouri and perfect the Molecular Order. I think it is yet quite possible that there will be a gathering in Missouri, but I have been given no information in that direction at present. There will be temporary gatherings in the various nations of the earth in preparation for a physical gathering into one body of the lights of the earth. This gathering will be on a new land is all I can say at present. This is a hint. The answer is not what you expect. The Masons. They are a very ancient organization and are guardians of various ceremonies and rites which have been corrupted, but in the new age various initiates will revitalize it with revelation and correction. Several offshoots will materialize taking the best from the masons and restoring some of the ancient knowledge with added new knowledge and keys. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6770 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered .. Paul ... Dear Zia, Christopher and everyone, Putting it all together can't we say that wherever is found love there is the presence of Christ as the incarnated son of divine mind among souls or among body, heart and mind and even among personalities? Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Zia writes:"when we are of a split mind, not one mind in the mind of God... is it not two, and therefore would the Christ be present to bring us into ONE mind, awaiting our call in a sense? Perhaps better put, anything above one requires Christ's presence to bring us back into oneness?" Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6771 From: "Aley" Subject: Re: Strange Days Weird night last night I have this friend that I think we are capable of forming a molecular relationship and have been discussing it with him. As I meditated on it last night so many strange things happened Lights, fire, energy. But it wasn't him it was as if the bonding was going with my higher self I would start to be logical or think it was him but then all I could think of was my higher self then this unbelievable longing would takeover and I would feel this overwhelming presence so powerful I could barely tolerate it. I always thought this experience would be a wonderful La La land experience but it some ways it was so over powering that it almost became frightening. There is definitely something going on and I'm not sure what. I am not doing anything particularly spiritual or inspiring and am plodding along with the book cover ideas are flowing but nothing exciting or super wonderful, just everyday stuff. So I see no reason for it but asking the list about this stuff does help it was so overpowering. Aley Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6772 From: Marylin Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered .. Paul ... Hi Paul I take it that this would mean any connection of togetherness including our Keys List. There is a great deal of love on this list, and we have gathered here. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6773 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Strange Days Hi Aley What you have described reminds me of when John took JJ to New Jerusalem and into the room where he looked into the "box". He said the feeling was almost over powering...the joy and love.... Is that what you felt? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6774 From: "Aley" Subject: Re: Strage Days Yes! very much so but it was so overpowering that I could barely tolerate it. I am not sure I am equipped yet to handle such emotions in a way I had to detach and just watch what was happening and allow it to take place with getting caught up in the emotions.of it or would have become to frightened by it. Aley Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6775 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: OT? It occurs to me to ask, why did you consider this off topic? ;) Very interesting, food for thought. Travis John Wayne Kline wrote: "Hello all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it would seem time is ripe to introduce myself. Least important is that my name is John Wayne Kline, I'm 47 years of age, born in St. Louis, Mo October 25th, 1951. I now live in a secluded area in the Ozarks sixty- five miles southwest of St. Louis." Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6776 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT? I agree with other's. John, your post was not at all off topic, JJ ask that we introduce ourselves more fully, i found your post wonderful and feel i know you even more since you described yourself so very well. I appreciate very much your beautiful sharing, and hope you stay out of lurker mode. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6777 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: When Two Or More Are Gathered Sharon writes: "Thank you, Christopher & Paul, you have expressed my thoughts wonderfully and better than i ever could have. do you suppose this is where the me, myself & i concept originated?" Hi Sharon and everyone, Roughly, in psychic terms, when I was drawn to my body the body concept was being formed. When I was drawn to my emotional feelings the heart concept was being formed. When I was drawn to my thoughts the mind concept was being formed. When I was drawn to the coordination between my body, heart and mind the I concept was being formed. When I began focusing on, and drawing to, the integration of my body, heart and mind or the integration of I the soul concept was being formed. These conceptual fragments are points of consciousness crystallized for clarity. These are not the living stream of consciousness of which the livingness or vitality cannot but be let out through intuition. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6778 From: "Marquita Harris" Subject: Thank You!! John, Thanks so much for sharing your experience. You communicated it's essence very well. That is often the portion that can be the most challenging to express when the mental body is the transmitter. There are concepts, facts, and principles that are often best communicated through the mental body. For me, your experience was not in that category. I have found that when the exit pathway is through the Heart, the description survives the journey intact, and the Essence and Blessings thereof saturate the receiver. I too felt a gustier Wind of Spirit as I read your post. Thank You, Marquita Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6779 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: When 2 or more are gathered .. Paul ... Marylin writes: "I take it that this would mean any connection of togetherness including our Keys List. There is a great deal of love on this list, and we have gathered here." Hi Marylin and everyone, All souls are together. The grouping of certain souls in a special bond is contingent upon the orientation as well as the love of the respective personalities. Both love and orientation are required for certain personalities to come together as a group. They can tell by their intuitive feeling whether they belong together in a spiritual communal life. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6780 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Presence Aley Writes: "Weird weird night last night I have this friend that I think we are capable of forming a molecular relationship and have been discussing it with him. As I meditated on it last night so many strange things happened Lights, fire, energy. But it wasn't him it was as if the bonding was going with my higher self I would start to be logical or think it was him but then all I could think of was my higher self then this unbelievable longing would takeover and I would feel this overwhelming presence so powerful I could barely tolerate it. I always thought this experience would be a wonderful La La land experience but it some ways it was so over powering that it almost became frightening. There is definitely something going on and I'm not sure what. I am not doing anything particularly spiritual or inspiring and am plodding along with the bookcover ideas are flowing but nothing exciting or super wonderful, just everyday stuff. So I see no reason for it but asking the list about this stuff does help it was so overpowering." This sounds like a third type of spiritual contact that I have not covered yet because it is rare, at least up to now. Let me ask you this about the Presence you felt. When you sense the presence of the Holy Spirit you will feel a range from the Still Small Voice to a Holy Breath that fills you with joy and makes you feel like weeping. When you feel the presence a Master who is one with Christ you will feel a very strong feeling of love and power and bliss, but you will not necessarily feel like weeping. Neither of these experiences is frightening. But there is a third Presence, The Father or Shamballa energy. Let me describe this and tell me if this is what you felt. The Presence is so powerful that you felt that if it got much closer to you that you would evaporate, as if it can command your very soul and Spirit, as if it were the Source itself. You feel more a sense of power than that of joy or bliss, even though you know that this Presence includes them all. Even though it is frightening you know beyond any doubt that it is from God because it is linked with your very essence. It is only frightening because it is difficult to adjust your vibration to It. If you did feel this third Presence then you most likely have some type of assignment in alignment with Purpose. You need to ask and find out what it is. I doubt if it would be just a book cover, unless there is a particularly important item that must be included. It could be a message of some kind. Let me know if you identify with this third Presence. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6781 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: did ya miss me? Hello everyone, I'm sorry for not posting sooner but I've been completely unable to. The changes in my life are so miraculous and personal and I just don't think I can do justice to them by putting them in words. All of the experiences noted here are happening to me also but, of course, on a personal level. I used to say that my life felt like I was on the moving sidewalk at the airport. I was aware I was taking a step but would move farther than the step should have taken me. Now my life is moving along at a pace so fast I don't even take steps anymore. It's more like being pulled through a tunnel. I am not afraid but I am overwhelmed in respect and honor. My life is not my own but is in direct service to those who know my soul. I still feel inadequate to post this. When I put the feeling of my heart into words it sounds wrong and mixed up. I am unable to say what my heart feels. Others have noticed my light shining brighter but can't quite figure out what it is that's different in me. Some ask if I've changed my hair or lost weight. Mostly they just want to comment on how beautiful I seem lately. I am honored to be a part of this. Thank you. This truly has been the ride of my life and it's not over yet. If no one else wants the job, I would like to interview everyone who want to and introduce them to the rest of us. I like to ask questions and am very people oriented. I feel closer to someone if I know personal things about them. With no objections I would like to take this project on. I am proud to be counted among the great ones such as yourselves. I am in light and love. Lorraine Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6782 From: Laura Subject: Re: did ya miss me? I'm reading posts such as these lately and I smile brightly (I've been doing that a lot more this past week). There is a joy in seeing others grow, and my personal joy is that I know that in the coming weeks I will begin to experience similar things to what I've been reading lately. First I'd like to address those on this list, lurkers and non-lurkers alike, to not be discouraged. Lorraine writes in her message, "I am proud to be counted among the great ones such as yourselves." I think what we are all learning here is that we are the great ones - all of us. Those who strive for their own personal highest are those that the Ancient Ones smile upon, we are those that will make a difference. And the catch to this is that we are no less ordinary than the rest of humanity. Look at JJ, for instance. Would he have thought 10, 20 years ago that he'd be leading the preliminary teachings of the keys of knowledge, the building blocks to what will become the new age? I don't think even one of us, not one, could say that they knew they'd be a part of such a miraculous reawakening of the spirit and the soul, nor can they honestly say that they can predict what will happen to them next. Look around you in this list, in your life, in your community and in your world and you will see great ones like yourselves. Great ones with unrecognized, unrealized potential. It's awe inspiring when you consider the magnitude of this mission as a whole, once the pieces come together. It's mind blowing when you consider that the ramifications (sic) of this mission have probably not even been imagined by *anyone* on this list. It may be many lifetimes before each of us realize what has begun right here, right now. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine! :) -Laura PS - Little minor and hopefully major victory on my own personal homefront. I was just informed by my husband on the phone that he's begun reading The Immortal at home (the online version). I'd like to ask the group to keep him (Dale) in your hearts and in your light and love so this seed that JJ has written falls on fertile soil!!! Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6783 From: "Aley" Subject: Re: The Presence J J writes: "This sounds like a third type of spiritual contact that I have not covered yet because it is rare, at least up to now." "Let me ask you this about the Presence you felt." "When you sense the presence of the Holy Spirit you will feel a range from the Still Small Voice to a Holy Breath that fills you with joy and makes you feel like weeping." I know this very well and experience quite often, my breath literally becomes the Holy Breath Of God I then when surrendered totally to it become a blessing to the world I generally just sit and breath when this happens. Even the memory and speaking of it now brings it in. My hands, my eyes all that I am is surrendered and becomes a blessing as I move from seeing things through the eyes of man into seeing things through the Eyes of God. I think this is the true state of healing "When you feel the presence a Master who is one with Christ you will feel a very strong feeling of love and power and bliss, but you will not necessarily feel like weeping." Yes this also is wonderful and often there is a Master that walks with me during this time "Neither of these experiences is frightening." "But there is a third Presence, The Father or Shamballa energy. Let me describe this and tell me if this is what you felt." Yes it is as if I will no longer be and my "EGO" becomes frightened because it feels as if it is dying but everything in me knows that this is right There is so much more I could say but I lose myself in it and only want this even though I know I will not be me any longer. It sounds confusing but I am drawn so much towards it. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6784 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: did ya miss me? Laura writes: "It may be many lifetimes before each of us realize what has begun right here, right now." That is how I have felt for some time now - thank you for putting words to what I was feeling. And Lorraine, I hope you interview away - you go girl! xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6785 From: Ed Fernandez Subject: Re: Ultimate vs. Practical Application Hello All, I belong to Lurkers Anonymous. ("Hi. My name is Maghavat...or Eddy if you prefer...and I am a Lurker." ;) Anyway, I have read many a post for quite some time now without much comment or introduction. I'd like to give a formal shout out to all of you...and share my love and salutations with each of you...I've also been on vacation, so I'm catching up here on previous posts... I'd like to respond to the thread that has catalyzed this message: that of the discussion of flow and duality, etc. In regards to flow, my personal thanks to both JJ (for going upstream in your efforts to create this forum) and to Paul (for going upstream in consistently maintaining a "more controversial" unity perspective). So far, in my life, I have been on what appears to be many different paths, each of which promised enlightenment/salvation/unity/cocoa puffs [;)].... and what I have been led to understand more and more is the point of view expressed most clearly by Paul Yu. For me, there is virtually no specific thing that one should do or not do that applies to ALL of the people, ALL of the time. In other words, in this infinite universe, there's always an exception. Sometimes it serves to go with the flow; other times it would appear not to be the case. Can you not think of examples of this in your own life? The moment we postulate a rule or absolute truism, we stratify and limit something as absolute, all-encompassing, and transcendent as Love. Life is NOT linear, but rules (and even principles!) often are... Let me be more specific. Say, I concur with JJ for the sake of argument that it would not serve to go to prison. The linear reasoning here presumably that pain, suffering and the restriction of one's freedom is not useful and/or desirable in one's life. In most cases, this would make sense, but what if Spirit had other ideas not instantly apparent to my left-brain intellect? Peter and Paul were both imprisoned, and although I'm not sure if I can remember any scriptural evidence to support this, one would suspect that them being there was a powerful catalyst for awakening some of the prison guards (especially in light of some of their miraculous releases). Not A Linear Situation. Also, take the controversy over drugs. People take drugs all the time: recreational drugs, pharmaceutical ones extolled by modern "medicine", caffeine, etc. If I was to follow the (sensible) principle that says never ingest something harmful to your body, I would have to question a great deal more. For instance, why would John The Apostle be drinking coffee when it has been proven (like cigarette smoking) to be harmful to one's body. [The idea that it may or may not be somewhat less harmful than smoking is really beside the point.] Why drink soda? Even chocolate? [Have I gone tooooo far? ;)] The answer, of course, is non-linear. There is a trade off. There is a joy - an invaluable experience - that comes from this kind of activity, and the physical trade off is presumed to be negligible by comparison. This is the presumed ("wrong or right") conviction of most drug users. I have seen the principle against drug use over and over again. Presumably, what would be "perfect" is to never use or to never have used drugs of any kind. Since drugs are harmful, a linear conclusion would result in "never do drugs for it harms your temple". Yet when I've honestly asked myself if my life would have been more perfect if I had never tried any drug, the answer has always been a very CLEAR "No". Can I say that I've never at all injured my body in the process? No. Can I say that these actions are necessarily advisable for EVERYONE on the planet? No. Can I say it has served (and may continue to serve) my evolution? Yes. Not A Linear Situation. Oh - and to my brother Rick - Jesus may have spoken "simple" truths to the throngs in clear and simple language. But did he also not say that he sometimes spoke in less clear parables that were meant for the understanding of his followers and NOT that of the other people in attendance? Strange thing, huh? Apparently....Not A Linear Situation. Anyway, thanks for your patience...I just had ta say somethin'! ;) Peace, Love, and Pork, Maghavat/Eddy Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6786 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Welcome Eddy! Thanks for becoming a recovering lurker - may the Force be with you! Might I assume that I have my first list neighbor by your e-mail address (in Berkeley)? That is the town in which I was born, my father's home town, and I live right down the street (okay, way down at the other end of the Nimitz Freeway) in Los Gatos. Please let me know if that is where you are, either via the list, or directly at thobson@altera.com - thanks! Tracey Hobson Customer Marketing Altera Corporation 408.544.7149 Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6787 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Test Greetings to All, JJ says so beautifully, "think we are cowards if we do not return." "Joseph felt extreme sorrow at this thought. He thought of all he had risked and given to the Saints (as they were called) and now his own followers were eager to sacrifice his life to save them from threats of neighbors that will probably not materialize." "As this wave of overwhelming sorrow descended upon him his brother said: "We must go back. I will return with or without you" "Now the pressure on Joseph was of monumental proportions. How would he look with his brother bravely facing the authorities without him? Everyone would surely call him a coward beyond redemption. Any past acts of courage would be quickly forgotten and he probably would not be deemed suitable to lead anyone." "Joseph reflected a moment and said: "If my life is worth nothing to my friends, it is worth nothing to me. We shall returned, but we shall be slaughter. Indeed we are as lambs gong to the slaughter." "They did indeed return and despite the promise of safety by the governor Joseph and Hyrum were shot by an angry mob that were allowed to break into the prison to get him." JJ this story has truly touched my heart, particularly at this time as I am currently understanding past life influences into this life, vows made, fears and guilts retained and now being released. I feel such a deep understanding of the sense of guilt in Joseph for not following his guidance and what he knew to be true. I feel there is a greater sense of guilt when the spiritual is denied, than when we do not live up to other people's expectations of ourselves. It is so interesting that it was the closest people around Joseph, his wife, his brother, and those in his chosen work, that used every means possible to take Joseph off the path of what he knew to be true. Same with Jesus, one of his own disciples!! I see the anguish cuts the deepest when it is our child, our spouse, our truly greatly loved ones, that in not having the same level of insight and direction, are rapidly and easily misled, distrustful, and ultimately when playing upon our emotions and highest ideals can take us off our chosen path of what we know to be so right within us. This ability to see where blame directed at ourself is NOT TRUE, to also see where true responsibility lies in our decision making, and to hold steadfast to the goal, irrespective of doubt and distrust all around us, is The Test indeed. Thank you for I feel your strength of resolution in this life time, and ability to hold true to your course uplifts us all, as we too shed these past patterns and strive to walk with you JJ on your chosen path. Also in ensuring equal commitment to soul direction and ability to not only listen but follow this guidance above all else, must make the final difference in comparison to the past. This difference is that a lone soul leader, found those walking with him turned easily in ignorance. When the leader is surrounded by equal partners then the guidance received by him will also be received by the equal partners and empower the decision and direction rather than misdirect it as in the past. This is what truly indicates the exciting times ahead. The profound support and empowerment, so necessary, and with such far reaching effects. Surely then it will be true, that what those minds can consciously conceive of together, will indeed become the reality. Once again JJ: "The interesting thing is that Joseph is greatly honored by the Mormons for his courage in voluntarily giving up his life, but what they do not realize is that this was not supposed to be. The Brotherhood had hopes he would pass this difficult test which was the opposite of Jesus facing the crucifixion. His test was to live even though the whole world thought he was the greatest coward on the earth. What he did not realize is that those who were still capable of soul contact would have followed him west and the power of the Spirit within him would have been stronger than ever because of his following the Holy Spirit in such difficult circumstances." Yes I see this very clearly, and that Spirit within him, also increasing within the others choosing to go with him, and everything would have been different, greatly empowered. Also I see that human nature has a very short memory, and the ruckus could have died down very quickly without any scapegoats. I see that what is of greatest value now is to truly value life. That perhaps we mistook Jesus on the Cross, and thought the lesson was to give our life for the truth and the highest qualities in human nature. JJ once again: "Because of this failure he was not able to lead the saints back to Missouri and perfect the Molecular Order." "I think it is yet quite possible that there will be a gathering in Missouri, but I have been given no information in that direction at present." "There will be temporary gatherings in the various nations of the earth in preparation for a physical gathering into one body of the lights of the earth. This gathering will be on a new land is all I can say at present. This is a hint. The answer is not what you expect." This also explains to me my participation in many varied groups. Thus gaining insight into many different aspects and infusing different groups with energies from other groups... sort of the effect of osmosis, just by presence and uniting in energy together. What I feel in this group, is there will be quite a variety of philosophical backgrounds and variety of experiences, and that the past life connections and commitments will play a very important role in the structure of the molecules. This blending will provide a very strong foundation. In great love, laughter and joy, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6788 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: The Presence Aley wrote: "I know this very well and experience quite often, my breath literally becomes the Holy Breath Of Go I then when surrendered totally to it become a blessing to the world I generally just sit and breath when this happens Even the memory and speaking of it now brings it in. My hands, my eyes all that I am is surrendered and becomes a blessing as I move from seeing things through the eyes of man into seeing things through the Eyes of God. I think this is the true state of healing" "When you feel the presence a Master who is one with Christ you will feel a very strong feeling of love and power and bliss, but you will not necessarily feel like weeping." Yes this also is wonderful and often there is a Master that walks with me during this time "Neither of these experiences is frightening." "But there is a third Presence, The Father or Shamballa energy. Let me describe this and tell me if this is what you felt." "Yes it is as if I will no longer be and my "EGO" becomes frightened because it feels as if it is dying but everything in me knows that this is right There is so much more I could say but I lose myself in it and only want this even though I know I will not be me any longer. It sounds confusing but I am drawn so much towards it." I'm in absolute awe. This wonderful account has given me a dreadful case of inadequacy. I am a long way from this; it's so beautiful. Thanks so very much for sharing it, Aley. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6789 From: J J Dewey Subject: Presence Confirmed Aley Writes: "Yes it is as if I will no longer be and my "EGO" becomes frightened because it feels as if it is dying but everything in me knows that this is right There is so much more I could say but I lose myself in it and only want this even though I know I will not be me any longer. It sounds confusing but I am drawn so much towards it." This definitely sounds like the Father Presence and is quite alarming the first time you feel it. Pray or meditate and seek His will and let me know the results positive or negative. Do not delay. By the way, what nation are you in? And Lorraine, it looks like you have the job, a budding initiate here. And Ed. I do not really see where we disagree. I have never laid down rules that so and so can never take drugs etc. I do think it is the height of stupidity and error to become so addicted to drugs that one would waste several lifetimes in pain and misery that reaches out and effects many people. Do you disagree with this statement? I can't get an answer out of Paul as to whether he agrees or disagrees with this type of following the flow. I understand that you learn lessons no matter how great your mistake (so long as you correct it), but there are many flows that are totally unnecessary to take. Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6790 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Ultimate vs. Practical Application Greetings to All, Wow, what a great post and introduction to you as well Maghavat/Eddy, and what a delight all these 'lurkers' have saved for all of us!! How splendid that you are coming out to join in this great celebration and feast!! What you have written in this wonderful enlightening post, is also about truly following your soul direction, so aptly put as non-linear, and better understood as 'considered abnormal or even crazy at times'. Although I understand and concur with what you have written, the following has significance for me: "I have seen the principle against drug use over and over again. Presumably, what would be "perfect" is to never use or to never have used drugs of any kind. Since drugs are harmful, a linear conclusion would result in "never do drugs for it harms your temple". Yet when I've honestly asked myself if my life would have been more perfect if I had never tried any drug, the answer has always been a very CLEAR "No". Can I say that I've never at all injured my body in the process? No. Can I say that these actions are necessarily advisable for EVERYONE on the planet? No. Can I say it has served (and may continue to serve) my evolution? Yes. Not A Linear Situation." Just want to say, that while the discussion to Flow and Duality was occurring, I spend one night dreaming your response here. Thought about posting it, and decided we had all moved on from that point. What a delight to see your thoughts. "Oh - and to my brother Rick - Jesus may have spoken "simple" truths to the throngs in clear and simple language. But did he also not say that he sometimes spoke in less clear parables that were meant for the understanding of his followers and NOT that of the other people in attendance? Strange thing, huh? Apparently....Not A Linear Situation." And there were also many times that the disciples did not understand what Jesus was saying, and are recorded to that effect. The Bible is filled with 'many levels' of understanding, and perhaps this is another reason it has lived on into our times." Peace, Love, and Pork, Maghavat/Eddy Hahahaha, please keep sharing... in love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6791 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: The Presence Greetings to All, Oh and there's just more and more wonderful posts occurring. Thank you JJ for this very clear and descriptive understanding of the different contacts, their feelings and recognition. I found this most helpful. To have this so simply explained is wonderful confirmation. JJ says: "This sounds like a third type of spiritual contact that I have not covered yet because it is rare, at least up to now." I see that on the archives from Samu there are crystals, and thought this might be of benefit to Aley which can focus consciousness and seems to stabilize the emotional body as well, rather perhaps enhancing the desire to stabilize the emotional body and bringing that about. Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. In great love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6792 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Ultimate Vs.Practical Application Hi Eddy, Welcome & Wow! When you lurkers come out it's very impressive, sure glad to have you back at the family table. when you think of all the things we do to bring harm to our bodies, i found i've brought the most harm with my negative thoughts. So glad you're with us, Eddy, please stay out of lurker mode. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6793 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Presence Confirmed J J writes: "I do think it is the height of stupidity and error to become so addicted to drugs that one would waste several lifetimes in pain and misery that reaches out and effects many people. Do you disagree with this statement? I can't get an answer out of Paul as to whether he agrees or disagrees with this type of following the flow." Hi JJ, I was not aware you still have a question unanswered by me. Was it the question that I asked you to specify? Anyway from what I have said it follows that addiction to drugs is not a waste of time being an experience conducive to an awareness of the illusory nature of taking drugs. Even positive experiences will be known as illusory let alone the negative ones. No experience is excluded from the natural flow of energy for it is all part of the manifestation of the one act of the one being and it is to be regarded as such. "I understand that you learn lessons no matter how great your mistake (so long as you correct it), but there are many flows that are totally unnecessary to take." I don't think any flow of life force whichever way it is headed can be considered as unnecessary. How can any part of the overall plan be unnecessary? It is only unnecessary from our limited perspective when we see it as bad as opposed to good. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6794 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Did You Miss Me Welcome back, Lorraine, was wondering where you had gone. You have my vote for the interview position, move over, Barbare Walters. Love & Light, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6795 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Thanks one and all! I can tell I am being sent light, love, and all things good. Thank you all so much, both those who've expressed it here and those who have simply telepathed it. As Tina Turner once said, You're Simply The Best!!! xo, Trace Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6796 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: our own autobiographies CALLING ALL KEYSTERS!! The time has come to expose yourself. :) Not that way!! hee hee hee We want to see you. We will make a mental picture of you in our minds and perhaps a physical picture on the web pages Samu keeps. I will need everyone to respond to me on my yahoo acct. Just type in "interview me" on the subject line and I will send out a questionnaire and chat with you. When I feel that I have enough interesting things to say about you I will compile things together and post one page per person. Just in case all 200+ of us reply at the same time keep in mind I will only be able to do one person at a time so it may be awhile before I can get back to you. In order to keep my yahoo acct from filling up please do not reply to this, (I know it's easier), rather please just send to my address with the words in the subject line and your return address will already be on there. If the body is blank, or minimal, it won't take up so much space on my storage. We'll go first come first serve until I'm through the list. I am very excited about this and I will post my own so you can see me too. I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it! :) Lorraine Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6797 From: Jean Subject: Re: OT Shyama, you speak so clearly, I liked what you had to say, I am still catching up with the list, I just wish I understood how to get to New Jerusalem. Can someone please help me with that. Or maybe is it , it has to be in my own time? Please elaborate. Yours truly, JEan My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6798 From: Jean Subject: Re: OT I ask that you all pray and send some healing light to my family and I, we live in Virginia and are told that hurricane Floyd which is very powerful is going to hit us starting Wednesday night through Thursday. I also ask that you pray for my husband who is a police officer that when he is on 24 hour call, if me have an evacuation and he has to stay on that he is protected and safe. I thank you Love, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6799 From: Jean Subject: Fwd: [prayer-l] judatwork, Mom, Danielle_Zimmerman, Debbie.mahew, Thought you all might like this..... This is a remarkable story of what prayer can do, whoever your higher power may be. Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things. Doug Coe, who is a remarkable man of faith, told this story about his friend Bob Hunter: One day when Bob was searching to understand his own faith and what it all meant he asked Doug, "Doug, do you really believe what the Bible says about moving mountains when we pray?" Doug thought about it and answered, "Sure." Bob was rather incredulous and asked him, "Do you mean to say that you believe that if I prayed for a mountain to move, that it would move?" Doug thought for awhile and said, "Let me put it this way. I not only believe it, but I will make you a bet. A $500 bet. Bob, what do you know about Africa?" "Nothing." "What do you think about when you think of Africa?" "I think about monkeys swinging from trees." "Then here's the bet. I want you to pray for 45 days, 'God help Africa. You can't miss a single day. And that's all you have to pray: 'God help Africa.' At the end of 45 days, you be the judge on whether any mountains have moved. If you think a mountain has moved, you pay me $500. If you don't think a mountain has moved, you just tell me, and I'll pay you $500, no questions asked." Bob, being an astute businessman, rather liked the odds. He accepted the bet. And he began to pray daily, "God help Africa." A few days later, Bob was at a dinner and sat next to an elderly lady. In the course of the conversation, he found out she lived in Uganda, and ran an orphanage there. Bob asked her a number of questions about Uganda and Africa. After a while, she asked him why he was so interested in Africa. Bob responded, with some embarrassment, "You'll never believe this, but I made a bet with a good friend," and proceeded to tell her about his bet with Doug Coe. By the end of the evening, she invited him to return to Uganda with her in a few days to visit the orphanage. Bob accepted the invitation. When he visited the orphanage in Uganda, his heart was touched by the orphans. After coming back to the U.S. he got a few friends together and bought a load of toys and clothes, and sent them to Uganda. The following week, he got a phone call from the woman at the orphanage. "Mr. Hunter, the children are so grateful for what you did, they would love if you could come again so they can make a special presentation to you to show you their appreciation. Can you come?" Bob accepted the invitation, and was off to Uganda again. After a heart warming ceremony at the orphanage, there was a phone call for Bob. It was the President of Uganda! The President had heard about the gifts to the orphans and called to thank Bob personally on behalf of his country. The President of Uganda also invited Bob to visit him that afternoon. When Bob arrived the President was in the middle of rushing out of his office. He apologized as he had appointments, and invited Bob to come along, so they could get acquainted in the car. Bob accepted. Along the way, at one of the stops, Bob looked out the window to see what appeared to be a stockyard; only this was a stockyard not filled with cattle, but with men. Bob asked the President what he was seeing. The President responded that it was political prison, and those men were his political enemies. The conversation went something like this: "But Mr. President, that's not right to have men living in such horrible conditions. You must let them go." "But those are my political enemies; men who have tried to subvert my authority. I cannot let them go. That would be foolish." "You have to let them go; it's not right that human beings would have to live in those conditions." The conversation did not last long, and shortly thereafter Bob was back in the U.S. About a week after getting back, he received a phone call. This time it was from the State Department, asking him to come to a meeting with the Under secretary for African Affairs. Rather puzzled over the purpose of such a meeting, he nevertheless went to the appointment. At the meeting, the Under secretary of State for African Affairs and Bob had a conversation along these lines: "Mr. Hunter, on behalf of the Government of the United States, I want to thank you for what you have done in Uganda." "What? The US. Government is thanking me for sending some toys to some orphans in Uganda?" "No, Mr. Hunter. It is about political prisoners." "What about political prisoners?" "The President of Uganda recently released the political prisoners, which is something our government has been trying to get him to do for years, without success. He told us after taking this action that he was doing it because of what you said to him." Needless to say, Bob Hunter was flabbergasted. But the story doesn't end there. After the State Department meeting, the President of Uganda phoned Bob and asked him to return to Uganda to help him form a new Cabinet for his country. "But Mr. President, I don't know anything about your country or the people who best serve in your government. I'm just an American businessman. How can I possibly help you choose a cabinet?" Bob went. And did what he could to help the President select his new ministers. A close friendship has developed between Bob Hunter, American Business man and the President of Uganda. The President even stays in Bob's home in the D.C. area when he visits the U.S. And you can guess, after those 45 days of praying "God help Africa," Bob Hunter sent Doug Coe a check for $500. That night in Gig Harbor, Doug Coe told us that he told his story later to a group of around twenty very successful business executives, all members of Young President Organization, an international association of business people who have become the chief executives or owners of companies above a certain size by age 40. After he told his story at this YPO lunch, 13 of them came up to him and asked him if he would take on the bet with them. Swallowing hard, after doing some quick math, he accepted the bet. He laid out the ground rules for them, that they had to pray every day for 45 days. They did not have to tell him what they were praying for, and at the end of the 45 days, it would be entirely up to them to decide whether a mountain had moved as a result of their prayers. After those 45 days, Doug received 12 checks for $500 each. A while later, he received the 13th check, accompanied by a letter that went something like this: "Doug, my mountain didn't move. But the discipline of praying every day for 45 days has changed my life, and so I feel I owe you this $500." A New Good-News Website on the net that only reports good news http://www.gnnow.com/contact.html TEACH ONLY LOVE * EXPECT MIRACLES Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. ~ Margaret Mead ~ EXPECT MIRACLES is available through all bookstores and on http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157324158X/002-8465879-9050854 You are welcome to share this newsletter with your friends. To view more warm fuzzy newsletters http://www.angelscribe.com To subscribe/unsubscribe http://www.angelscribe.com/subscribe.html * Angels & Miracles Newsletter is a gift of joy from my heart to yours. Heartfelt donations are greatly appreciated and welcomed as the "Soul Support" to help defray costs for this inspirational newsletter service and web site. * EXPECT MIRACLES MARY ELLEN "Angel Scribe" PO BOX 1074 GIG HARBOR, WA 98335-3074 USA * People of the world are ready for GOOD NEWS! * ANGELS AND MIRACLES... GOOD-NEWS-LETTER ON LINE SINCE JANUARY 1996 Read by over 50,000 people in 40 countries and YOU. http://www.angelscribe.com hugs&prayers, Nancy Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6800 From: "Caramel" Subject: Re: OT Jean writes: "I ask that you all pray and send some healing light to my family and I, we live in Virginia and are told that hurricane floyd which is very powerful is going to hit us starting Wednesday night through Thursday. I also ask that you pray for my husband who is a police officer that when he is on 24 hour call, if me have an evacutation and he has to stay on that he is protected and safe. I thank you Love, Jean" My included homepage: http://community.webtv.net/Timber-roo/TheSandsOfTime Editor;s Note: No reply included Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6801 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: OT Most certainly Jean. It is done. diane Jean wrote: "I ask that you all pray and send some healing light to my family and I, we live in Virginia and are told that hurricane floyd which is very powerful is going to hit us starting Wednesday night through Thursday. I also ask that you pray for my husband who is a police officer that when he is on 24 hour call, if me have an evacuation and he has to stay on that he is protected and safe. I thank you Love, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6802 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: OT Jean, know that you and your husband are covered & filled with our love & light, we see you both well & safe, the love & light of this list is very powerful, know this and hold fast to your power. We are also sending the love & light to Marylin (BammbiA) in Georgia. We will hold the whole area in love. We have been through hurricanes in Texas, rather awesome. Stay strong, Jean, you are loved. sharon & richard Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6803 From: Sharon and Richard Subject: Prayer Jean, thank you, after reading this i felt as if someone had poured warm honey (non-sticky) all over me. I know we can move mountains and soften hurricanes. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6804 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Prayer This hurricane looks very, very powerful. Maybe that honey will help slow it down. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-14/6805 From: Ed Fernandez Subject: Re: Presence Confirmed Hello again, (Wow. Two posts in one day! My plans are unfolding perfectly for "World Domination By Next Tuesday"!) ;) Okay. Seriously, thanks for responding JJ: "And Ed. I do not really see where we disagree. I have never laid down rules that so and so can never take drugs etc. I do think it is the height of stupidity and error to become so addicted to drugs that one would waste several lifetimes in pain and misery that reaches out and effects many people. Do you disagree with this statement?" Before I can answer this...I would need to know...exactly... ...how many lifetimes? (Hee hee...sorry...couldn't help it... ;) Okay, to answer the first part of your question, I agree that you never laid down any rules against using drugs. It is the general principle that assumes this to be an error or a "mistake" or a "bad" decision that I have questions around: (from a previous post:) "Let us pick someone who made some bad decisions while on the path of high resistance. Jane Fonda is a good example here. She protested the war in Vietnam which may have been well and good, but in the eyes of many she came close to treason by visiting North Vietnam and helping the enemy with propaganda. She also experimented with drugs, made several risqu? films for the time and delved into unpopular philosophy." I have to be honest. I find nothing in these actions that necessarily constitute bad decisions. She may have changed some of her opinions later, but I personally don't regard any of these previous things she did as "bad"...especially since hidden factions of OUR government might turn out to be the most dangerous of all....Hmm, but I digress... I mean, for one person, "experimenting with drugs" may, in fact, seem to be a mistake; for another, the reality may be quite other. Take, for instance, the many artists of our age who, using drugs, created powerful and wonderful art, inspiring many to a course of more Light, Love, and Understanding. One may argue that drugs were unnecessary, but it is beside the point. The influence was there...as was the outcome. So? Was it a "mistake" on the part of these artists? Or what of the indigenous peoples of the earth who've used drugs in their spiritual ceremonies for so many eons? I simply do not want to propagate any principles that are short-sided and over-generalize everything. I have been a part of tooooo many systems of thought that have indoctrinated members in (as I believe Zia put it) "What To Think" as opposed to "How To Think". If I have misunderstood your previous sentiments, I apologize most vigorously... Yet, I want to make sure that I answer the rest of your question as clearly as I can: I certainly agree with you: addiction of any kind generally does not serve. However, even in this most extreme of cases that you raise, we must (I believe) be open to other possibilities. Consider the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and people of the sort. Can we truly say they wasted their time or made mistakes when it seems that their former activities were as crucial to their individual missions as their latter ones? So here is where the line between "good" decision and "bad" decision begins to fade and becomes almost indistinguishable in the service of the larger picture, or soul, if you prefer. Could one action truly proceed without the other? Within the same individual? I believe this is what Paul Yu was at least partially alluding to earlier in his posts... "I can't get an answer out of Paul as to whether he agrees or disagrees with this type of following the flow. I understand that you learn lessons no matter how great your mistake (so long as you correct it), but there are many flows that are totally unnecessary to take." (I have often judged certain things in my life as errors or unnecessary...and, for myself, it seems that I have seen the illusion in this approach. I don't wish to presume it as regards to others...) Finally, I want to be clear in saying that I am not trying to crusade for people to use drugs, especially if it gets in the way of their lives. All I'm sayin' is... ...I like Sobriety In Moderation. (Just kidding...) All I'm saying is that I have questions about the simple answers that often are imbibed whole and without question in spiritual circles. I know that you have often advocated seeking Soul Confirmation first and foremost and I most heartily agree with this approach. I also know that the more answers I seem to get, the more questions multiply for me.... ...kinda like rabbits.... ;) With Love, Eddy/Maghavat Post No. keys-l: /1999-09-15/6806 From: "* Zia" Subject: Re: Presence Confirmed Greetings to All, Wonder if I might be able to shed some light here with JJ and Paul and Ed. At the risk of being completely misunderstood this is how I see the differences in perspective. JJ says: "And Ed. I do not really see where we disagree. I have never laid down rules that so and so can never take drugs etc." The question is not about whether you have made rules or not for other people JJ, as I see it your next sentence explains the simple difference that Ed and Paul are talking about. "I do think it is the height