1999 - WEEK 34 Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6321 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Clarification Thanks for clearing that up, JJ. But then, I knew you would. Something from my soul insists that this group will play an important part in creating molecular relationships on earth and that we will have a lot of help, from above, in doing it. Sometimes I don't know if it is me that needs a point clarified or if I am picking it up elsewhere and just putting a voice to it. I guess that comes with trying to be part of a molecule, ay. I had visions of what this list would do, when I first started it. Every day I get real joy from seeing it come true and better than I even dreamed it. I can tell these feelings are shared by many and that makes it that much nicer. Love to all my brothers and sisters, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6322 From Rick Audette Subject: Re: The song on video (OT) Hi Anni, Thank you, so much for sharing with us. It was nice to say the song with you. I've saved the avi to my hard drive and will join you often. I see you have mediaring now, so I'll look forward to catching you on line and talking with you. I saw you come on briefly, tonight, but could not get connected before you popped back off. I'm sure we'll get a chance at it soon. By the way, I don't think saying the song should be labeled (OT). Having discovered that it is possible to send voice mail to the list, I think it would be useful to allow them, so long as we follow the same guidelines as e-mails do. I'm not sure how well everybody else's computers receive them (some don't have sound cards)so it might not be acceptable to everyone. We'll leave it up to the group as to if we should allow posting voice mails on list or not. Talk to me, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 Phone +1 (972) 4244838 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6323 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: The song on video (OT) Anni Ida West wrote: "Hi keysters Would you like to sing the song with me?" You are a treasure, Anni!! The video is great. All we need to do now is get it on cable TV :-) I've saved it and intend to join with you frequently in that act of magic we call the Song. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ring the bells that still can ring. Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. ~ Leonard Cohen Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6324 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Conscious Creation "This list seems to have taken on a movement that was just not there before we started traveling to NJ, it has expanded each of us to the point that we are greater than we were before. then again maybe i'm just rattling on. love to all, Sharon" Hi Sharon and all My feelings are the same about the list. I began to have changes in my life when I first began to say the song.....when was that......a couple of years ago? The changes were slow and almost imperceptible at first. But the trips to NJ, even the ones that don't seem to be successful, have, in themselves, created a "speed up" of some sort. I wonder if that is why the list has been so sparse lately........is everyone "on a plateau" to fully digest the food? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6325 From: Marylin Subject: Re: True progression Lynne writes: "Has anyone ever had the experience of facing a brick wall and knowing that if there was a "hole" in it the subconscious, so to speak, and the conscious would be better off. I know it may not make sense but am unsure as to how to express it properly." Hi Lynne I have never had that particular experience with a brick wall, but what it sounds like is a "soul contact" where your higher self is reminding you of the curtain of forgetfulness that comes down when we are born into this life. It may seem to you that it is really a brick wall that can't be breached, but that is not so. It can be as you were "informed" that a hole could be made in it and the result would be re-membering of what was forgotten. Welcome to the crowd.....we're all trying to do just that. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6326 From: Marylin Subject: Re: The song on video (OT) "(some don't have sound cards)so it might not be acceptable to everyone. We'll leave it up to the group as to if we should allow posting voice mails on list or not. Talk to me, Rick" Hi Rick Some of us do have sound cards and don't know how to use them (telling tales on myself) I am able to turn up the volume in the computer but my daughter tells me that some things have to be heard through the outside speakers and I can't find an on/off button on either one. ARRRRRRgh! Never-the-less I will still give it a try. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6327 From: John Kosior Subject: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Rick Audette wrote: "We'll leave it up to the group as to if we should allow posting voice mails on list or not. Talk to me," Howdy Folks, Voice mails on the list. Wow. It's absolutely amazing that we even have this choice to make. And naturally, I have NO objections at all. But I have no objections to most anything (off topics, disagreements, etc.), so perhaps I'm not discriminating enough to vote, um, objectively. :) Though I would ask about the size of a voice mail file. Once again, not for my sake, but some folks have more trouble retrieving larger files. I know we have limits placed on us by spirit web as to email size. But as far as I'm concerned, I think it might be interesting. On another note, I have used the MediaRing software and I think it's excellent. Not just the quality of the software, but the wonderful new vista of communication with others we've only been able to type with. Still investigating it's potential, but so far, I really like it. Well, there's my two cents worth. I hope all is well with you all. I'd say I'd see you in NJ, but I'm still running around the airport looking for other fellow travelers. Perhaps in time I'll be able to make the trip myself, but until then I guess I'll be using ground transportation. :) With All Blessings, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6328 From: Marylin Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Hi John Wondered what happened to you. I just couldn't resist the temptation to ask you about running around in the AIRport. I always thought planes were air transportation. Have they changed? l0l You tickled my funny bone. l0l Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6329 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Conscious Creation Hi Marylin and All, I think you're right on this. There is just so much food to digest these days. In the last week or so, I've started a number of responses to the list, only to write "Hi Folks", then realize that I have no point to make that hasn't already been made. So I delete and go back to digestion. I'm guessing I'm not the only one that has done this. It's funny because I came back from my trip to 200+ emails from the list, spent three days digesting it all, then we went to lull mode. I do have an affinity towards extremes, but I also look forward to a somewhat more balanced list activity. Of course, this always happens after brief quiet times, so I'm not too impatient. :) As for you, JJ, I must say that I am enjoying this series of teachings as much or more than any. It's been great to partake of all of this, even though my meditation ability is so feeble. Perhaps I've been to NJ and just can't perceive it. And even if not, that thought works to placate my puzzled mind. :) Happy Travels and Blessings To All, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6330 From: J J Dewey Subject: Your Savior I think it's time that I took note Sharon's posts. They are always short and sweet and are like salt that seasons the list. She is always supportive of new people and never overlooks a compliment or supportive statement that needs said. This is especially admirable considering personal problems she and Richard are through. You are always noticed and appreciated by list members as are all the rest of you. Meditation Continued: As you feel and see yourself in the body of Christ sense the presence of the other members of the group in the body with you communing with Him and say the final stanza: "That through us Your Light and Love and Power is manifest to all the Sons and Daughters of mankind." As you say the word Light you see a ring of white light materializing where the group was standing in a circle before you entered the center. Then as you say love you see a multitude of colors added. Finally when you say power you find yourself back in your original position, but sensing a greater endowment of these three aspects. Now you look toward the center again and instead of an image of Christ you see a person who you have personally had a relationship with in this life. This is the person who has caused you more grief and irritation than any other. This is the person you would go farther out of your way to avoid than any other. As you reflect there is one person that comes to your mind and he or she now appears clearly in the center in the place of Christ. This person now speaks: "My form has changed, but the Christ is still here. Whatsoever you feel and do unto the least of these my brethren, you do unto me. "This person you see before you is your savior. If you can see past the illusion of harm he has done you and forgive him so you can see the Christ then this person saves you from your sins. Without him/her you could never experience the pure love of God which is salvation." Finish the meditation by looking at this irritating person and feel the irritation and other negative feelings transform into joyful love as you see his face change to the face of Christ. When you have successfully done this so only the Christ is seen in the center you see a look in His eyes that says come to Me and suddenly it appears that only you and the Master are present and you run to Him and he takes you in his loving arms and holds you for as long as you desire. Note: You may have to run through this several times for a successful completion, but it will be worth the effort. If you have interesting experiences or difficulties here feel free to post them. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6331 From: Richard and Sharon Subject: Compliments parts of-OT WOW! Thanks JJ, those are very appreciated comments indeed, what a grand day, sweet words from JJ, bright sun and warmth, it just doesn't get much better than this. Finding the Christ in everyone has been a blessed challenge of mine for years and just when i think that whomever i'm checking out doesn't have ANY Christ Consciousness at all, the light pours from their being filling me and covering me with their sweet love. I have not run across any one that doesn't radiate their Christ when I really look for it, no matter how awful i thought they were, and the beautiful part of this is when i see it in them, they must feel the change within their own beings because they become totally different people, we have some neighbors that had been real hell- raisers, but when our encounter took place they became wonderful, well, to be honest, they became wonderful to us, not to all the other neighbors, but the other's continued to see them as PROBLEMS, so that's what they stayed for them. If we could all see the Christ in EVERYONE, wow, what a shift this world of ours would take. Thanks to all of you fot seeing the Christ in me, you move me more than you will ever know. love to all, sharon ^I^ ^I^ Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6332 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Blown mind... Hi All. JJ, you have blown my mind like it hasn't been since I tried to grasp, with my finite mind, the concept of an ever-expanding universe back when I was 14 years old. It was when you said this: "It appears to scientists that the universe is expanding and that there is not enough gravitational pull to stop this expansion. Therefore they believe the universe will merely expand, dissipate and die after a period of ages. Lo, such scientists are looking for the wrong solution for the salvation of our universe. The answer to this lies not in gravitational pull, but in the Intelligence of God as it manifests through mankind. The one unpredictable force that we know exists within creation is the human kingdom and these little humans living on an unlimited number of worlds will unite in Intelligence in ages hence and move planets, stars and galaxies out of their orbits and draw the orbs back from their mindless expansion. These lowly humans billions of years hence will seem like Gods directing the great systems toward more intelligent and useful forms that create life on larger scales than has ever been imagined by the highest avatar." Kinda makes me wonder, too, that if we are each cells in the body of Christ, and if there are other worlds, then perhaps all of us on this planet are but a half a freckle on the nose of the body. I'm feeling very microscopic about now... and yet, there lies within me the power to move a moon of Jupiter, perhaps? I can only describe my mind as being stunned somewhat. And when I was reading your last post, about the meditation, I went there mentally for a few seconds, and when I said "love" the lights that went off in my imagination were so mystically beautiful, I wish I knew how to replicate them so that others could seen them. I don't think that even computer generated imagery is that sophisticated. Kinda feels like the 60's minus the psychadelics! Trippin' on! Trace ----------------------- Tracey Hobson Customer Marketing Altera Corporation 408.544.7149 Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6333 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: OT - Lorraine's pic All Folks, Find a picture of Lorraine and her daughter at: http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.htmlLorraine Cheers and peaceful blessings, Samu :) chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6334 From: Jean Subject: Re: True progression Hello Everyone, some of you have made me feel welcome and i thank you being new to this particular list, I have read the first 20 chapters online of the book 1 of Immortal. I am very interested, and Rich thanks for sending me the archives, I have a lot of reading to do! LOL! I am confused about what is going on in New Jersey, can someone please fill me in, I am a bit confused especially being new and all on this list. Please fill me in. Thanks, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6335 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) For those playing with the voice stuff, please just post links. My email already takes up a lot of space on the server, I don't want it taking more. I doubt I'd auto-download the binary attachments, but I prefer to not even receive them. How about taking a cue from Usenet? Keep this list for discussion and create a new one for binary files. Then you could all post pictures, sounds, motion video, whatever. And the rest of us don't have to even know it exists. ;) Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6336 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: True progression I'd like to add my welcome to you too Jean. NJ stands for New Jerusalem not New Jersey. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6337 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: Self Deception (Not really OT) Some have said "we cannot change the problem at the level of the problem . it is only when we have a higher vision, a call to something greater, that change happens." For most on the spiritual path, the insoluble dilemma is a conflict between ... Thoughts, feelings and emotional reactions to people and situations which cannot be reconciled with the term 'spiritual' ... the 'problems' of incalculable past memories and ancestral beliefs stored in the DNA and cellular unconscious which must be released ... And The ideas expressed by numerous teachers, that we are 'new' every moment ... that there is a Divinity, a God /Goddess which we aspire to ... our 'Higher Vision' ... which most see as outside ourselves ... the object of aspiration ... and to which most of us give away our power . You are brand new ... every moment ... The cells in your body are continually creating and re-creating ... on the average, there is not one cell in your body now that you had 7 years ago ... so if you are Brand New every moment, what of your 'line of future', your dreams and visions hopes and fears, your 'flow of events'? Why won't the reactions and the emotions go away? What is stored in our DNA and the cells of our bodies ... (that part of us below the neck which constitutes our unconscious mind) ... are past behavioural patterns, past self judgments, past Self Limiting Decisions ... denied, not accepted and not recognised ... The body itself is a marvel of creation ... the cells are continually re-creating them selves all of the time ... in every moment ... as much as we allow our body to re-create itself ... within the confines of our unconscious 'Self Limiting Decisions'. My ancestors and my personal past, my parents did not create me, but they gave me the raw materials .... I, *IN THE MOMENT*, am the creator of my universe, and I am, in fact, re-creating my own personal past in every succeeding moment of the present by holding onto the Self Limiting Decisions of my past ... of my ancestors ... of what I was taught as a child that I could or could not do ... We are re-creating in the moment ... every moment ... all of those Self Limiting Decisions ... in every new cell that is formed ... and limiting the re-creation of the cells themselves to re-create within the confines of the unconscious limiting beliefs ... First I have a feeling and then the feeling has all of me ... "One day you will grow old and die ..." The pivotal question is ... ...where lies the power .. in the past .. or in the present? The power lies in the present ... in recognising the 'Limiting Decisions and Beliefs' ... in allowing the release of these limited views of self from the physical body ... merely by moving beyond the 'code of secrecy and silence' ... by accepting that these 'beliefs' exist ... (wherever they came from) so that creation of self in the present is without 'Limiting Beliefs' ... Until the past patterns of Limiting Beliefs are recognised, the power is that of Victim ... in the past ... We are born 'Awakened', 'Enlightened' and 'Innocent' at one with that God that we have been taught to look outside for salvation from. 'Kundalini' or 'Spiritual Emergence' is our power of creation and re-creation ... We are all born with 'Kundalini' awakened ... it is our natural state ... repressed ... by (unconscious) learned behavioural patterns throughout life .. Life is not an experience of crisis ... it is the experience of the body's way of re-awakening to the truth of itself ... of the mind remembering the source of its true essence ... What you are experiencing is like a dam bursting ... a dam that has been holding back the inherent power of the truth of the physical body ... That dam is made up of Limiting Decisions and behavioural patterns learned and enforced from early childhood ... held onto by each succeeding generation and past down the mtDNA ... from mother to her children ... limiting decisions that become limiting deceptions ... The world of Maya .. of illusion if we (ego I) can step aside and allow 'that which will occur', to occur of itself and not by force of will ... it will occur of its own volition and in its own time. It is already occurring ... we with our limiting beliefs, in the opinion that we know more than we are conscious of ... are trying to stop it ... We see our lives moving from crisis to crisis because, as the dam bursts, all of our limiting decisions and behavioural patterns are brought to consciousness, along with all of the self judgments we have ever made ... and judgments from others that we have taken on ... The Mind becomes aware of them and we react. .. because we know we are not being true to ourselves ... and we add to them ... or deny them ... thereby adding to the aging process of the cells we are newly creating (unconsciously)... In the past, we have even tried to 'get even' ... we have retaliated ... we have tried to manipulate other's into our way of thinking so that we can gain support for our limited perceptions of ourselves ... and justify our behaviour ... and then got 'pissed off' because others could not see our point of view ... The world around us is a mirror ... through which we see the reflections of all of our limiting decisions ... but rather than allow our own evolution, we hold onto our re-creation and add further self judgment to it. one day me decided that me did not need a personal history ... so I dropped it ... We have a choice between limited and limitless ... by dwelling on the revelations and rememberings of past judgments and past Limiting Decisions and man's Mind's interpretations of what is 'Spiritual', we are re-creating 'limited' .. By allowing that these revelations and rememberings are patterns being released through the flow of natural order we are allowing the 'limitlessness' ... of being fully 'Hu-man' It is only the ego that needs a name or needs to be named ... the ultimate self limiting deception ... Can we surrender to ourselves . our own inner Divinity, our power of creation and re-creation . our 'Life-force' "In the beginning was the word ." (or thought) ... as you were created in the likeness of God, what is your Divine word? ... Turning back to another verse from the Christian Bible ... (Clay comprises rock turned to earth, moistened with water)... Can you allow the 'Breath of the Holy Spirit', your sacred Life Force, your Kundalini to move through your body 'made of clay' so that it can be turned into a Hu-man Be-ing? With Respect Christopher Wynter Hobart, Tasmania wynter@bigpond.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6338 From: Jean Subject: Re: True progression Thank you...I thought it was New Jersey, I think I am coming in on the tail end of everything so you all must bear with me until I understand what we are all talking about. THanks for the welcome. Jean Change does not come easily or quickly, but the courage to change gives us the freedom to grow...... also check out my main url, it is http://www.angelfire.com/va/jeanbean25 Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6339 From: Richard and Sharon Subject: True Progression OT Hi Jean, don't feel left out, even some of us that have been in on the discussions get confused, we had a problem with spiritweb (all my fault) and by the time i got back on, all of one day lost, the list had moved quickly on, so just hang on, baby, we're all getting to the same place, just let the list carry you along when you feel lost, and ask for help. love to all, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6340 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: True Progression OT Sharon speaks with truth and much wisdom. I had a problem with my isp Flashnet last week/end and got very behind in mail. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6341 From: Jean Subject: Re: True Progression OT Thank you Sharon, since I last posted to you, I read some of the archives (the first six) that Rick sent me. I feel very connected with it. I have always been a seeker of truth. It is funny, I used to think I was crazy because of what I sought, and in the past two months through finding this list and two other lists I am one (divinebeingsoflight@oneslist, and Prayer-l@spiritweb.org), I have found people whom think like I do, act like I do. It is amazing, seek and you shall find.....oh there is such truth in that! J.J, I believe your message is very important, I feel it and sense that many people including myself will and are being affected by it. It will only get stronger and bigger my friend. The greatest thing you can do is make a difference in others lives. One person wrote me today telling me that posts I send on the other lists have helped her and that she was amazed how I could post those to people I did not know in person. I have found myself in these lists, there is a connection, a big circle of light forming here that is strong and steadfast. I have sat back the past few days and see it in this list. It is good. You all have a great night. Love and blessings, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6342 From: Jean Subject: Re: True Progression OT Thanks diane, I guess we will all catch up eventually...LOL Love and light, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-23/6343 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Just a quick note about how mediaring sends voice mail: If I send voice mail, you get a very short e-mail that contains a URL. When you click on the URL it takes you to a page that plays the message. None of it is ever down loaded to your computer. It's kind of like when you listen to Real Audio clips. A voice message can be up to 15 minutes in length but none of it stays on your computer. It does not require any special software to receive the message. You just need to have a sound card and speakers. Rick Post N08-23 keys-l: /1999-34/6344 From: Rick Audette Subject: This and that Just a few odds and ends here: On the mediaring thing, several members now have it. I have received voice mail from Anni and Jenn. We have not managed a direct conversation yet, because I was already engaged when they called. We'll keep trying though. Zia and I have talked several times and are working out some bugs in our systems. I've also talked to her son James. Like ICQ, it's a little awkward at first, but well worth the effort. I have some things I'd like clarified, regarding partners. Someone asked me why I was so concerned with it. Believe me, I am in no hurry to have a partner, after all I've been through. It does seem to be an important step in forming molecular relationships though, so I'm doing my best to work out the details of finding the right partner. In the NJ meditation, I thought, at first, that the person in the next room was a soul mate. After reading the whole thing several times, I find that only a "working" partner is ever talked about. There could be romance with this partner, but that has been played down or is part of a whole other scene. So maybe I might find the girl of my dreams there, somewhere in the future, but for now all we seem to need is a kind of business partner. That takes some of the stress off, for me. Then there is a question of, what if two guys are interested in the same girl (for either type of partner). Sure, we are supposed to all love one another and be able to work out these things, but I have to go with what little experience I have and it does seem like something that could throw a wrench in the works. Next, I wonder if one has to have a firm, stable partnership, with only one person or can we also just be free agents that can fill in where needed. Electrons seem to be able to be shared by multiple atoms within the same molecule. Could not some individuals have no fixed partner and yet still be a part of the molecule? And, it was said that what we have in New Jerusalem will ultimately become even more Real than our physical reality. Does this mean that it is possible that we may find partners there while at the same time never actually having a partner in the physical world. I have really mixed feelings about that. One the one hand, being single has been less stressful than being in a "bad" marriage, but the thought of never having someone to snuggle up to, for the remainder of this incarnation, is dreary, to say the least. I read JJ's post about "Your Savior" when I got home from work. I was in a hurry to get back off line, so I just forwarded it to my ex (the person that best fit the description) and got off to go make dinner. Later, when Rachel was in her room doing homework, I read it again, a little slower. When I got to ".... only you and the Master are present and you run to Him and he takes you in his loving arms and holds you for as long as you desire.", I exploded into tears, so fast it was like sneezing. I had to shut it down again, with a promise to myself to return for a third reading after the kid is tucked in for the night. I feel what is coming and want to be able to give it my full attention. Wow, who'd of thought a mail list could ever get this intense. I am trembling and my nose is twitching. I cried at the ending of books one and two. My first letter from JJ, back in October, broke chains that had held me for twenty years, with only one sentence. Now, with only a few more words, he has brought me face to face with Christ, after almost a half century of struggle on my part. Thank You, thank You, thank You God for bringing me to this teacher. I can only hope that some day I can do as much for others as he has done for me. Thanks for letting me share. Love, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6345 From: Marylin Subject: Re: True progression "Thank you...I thought it was New Jersey, I think I am coming in on the tail end of everything so you all must bear with me until I understand what we are all talking about. THanks for the welcome. Jean" Hi Jean Welcome to our table. The "food" is great. Don't feel bad about NJ. You'd be surprised how many of US thought it was New Jersey, too. Boy did we have a good laugh on ourselves. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6346 From: Marylin Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Hi Rick I finally got to hear you on the voizmail. You sound great. I had to get out of AOL and go to Internet Explorer to hear but that's okay. It worked great. Love, Light Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6347 From: Anni West Subject: I have a dream (OT) Hi keysters, Ever since I joined this list - about 7 months ago (and such wonderful 7 months!!) I have had this dream about celebrating New Year 2000 together with my keyster family :-)) Meditating, singing the Song, talking, celebrating,..... In the archives I can see that others have had the same dream: From: Rick Audette: "Happy New Year! Wouldn't it be nice if we could meet in the flesh in a great 2000 New Years Bash? JJ" "COOL"..and with this much advance notice, I'll bet we could all make arrangements to be there. There is an international airport at DFW and the weather is decent in Texas, this time of year. Dallas might be a good place to have such a "bash". What say everybody? Rick" I realize that we can all meet in the New Jerusalem now - but I would love meeting you in the flesh also :-)) Does anybody want to share my dream? If we are going to do it we should decide very soon I think. I am willing to come to Texas if that is still possible? Rick? Others? Love and light Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6348 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: nightmares Hello my newest family, I need your help. I sing the song twice a day, I'm working on a working partner, I love the teachings from NJ and my higher self and every night while I sleep I am barmbarded with nightmares about being driven down the road by a killer or watching dark brothers fight and steel souls of others. They never try to kill me but they kill those around me who I can't protect. They are near me and I have the feeling they pretend to be my friends. They are someone I know. I feel truth in my waking conscience mind but in my sleep the messages are telling me to beware. The dark brothers are closer than I think. I have not learned anything from JJ that I didn't know before on some level, his teachings have lifted my spirituality to higher awareness, I have never felt so good about myself and my abilities then why do I have nightmares about being led down the wrong path? Why do my dreams tell me to beware? Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6349 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Rick, In order to stream audio you need special software. It may come with the browser you are using, but it's there someplace. After a quick jump to www.mediaring.com looks like you download their software to play it. No big deal to me as long as it's just a URL reference, but I wanted to make sure people didn't get confused about it. Of course, it means I can't complain.. sheesh. Now I have to find something else to complain about. See what you did??? :) Oh, and it's only for Windoze 95/98. NT will not work, nor will a real OS like Linux. ;) Requirements from their website: Windows 95/98 operating system (a Windows NT version will be available at a later date) 133 MHz Pentium processor 32 MB of RAM 10 MB of Hard Disk space half-duplex sound card (full-duplex recommended) SVGA display card with 256 colors (16-bit color recommended) microphone & speakers, or headset 28.8 kbps modem (33.6 kbps recommended) Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6350 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: I have a dream (OT) Texas huh? Sure Y'all don't want to Ski Utah??? *laugh* Of course, it's not just because I'm already IN Utah and wouldn't have to make a trip out of it! :) If someone makes arrangements I may be interested. You don't want me to make them, we'll end up in tents on a mountain someplace. ;) I can always use more warmth... UT is already getting too cold. Not to mention I work in a cryogenic freezer! (Well, ok, not really, but the AC system here really feels like it) Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6351 From: Marylin Subject: Re: nightmares Lorraine writes: "why do I have nightmares about being led down the wrong path? Why do my dreams tell me to beware?" Hi Lorraine It could be that the dark brothers thought they were finally getting you into their realm and now you have found the way out. Follow what your inner self tells you and tell the dark brothers, out loud if need be, to "take a hike". Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6352 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: I have a dream (OT) Travis Tabbal writes: "If someone makes arrangements I may be interested. You don't want me to make them, we'll end up in tents on a mountain someplace. ;) I can always use more warmth... UT is already getting too cold. Not to mention I work in a cryogenic freezer! (Well, ok, not really, but the AC system here really feels like it)" Too cold?!? It's still 90+ degrees a day up here! It never dips below 70 degrees at night! If you're too cold now, you have something else wrong, man. =) - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6353 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: nightmares Lorraine Deckard "I need your help. I sing the song twice a day, I'm working on a working partner, I love the teachings from NJ and my higher self and every night while I sleep I am barmbarded with nightmares about being driven down the road by a killer or watching dark brothers fight and steel souls of others." Hi Lorraine, Let me give it a try. The dark brothers are your restrictive beliefs or beliefs restrictive in nature. These are the ideal part of you trying to be your friends. Your feeling toward them is rather ambiguous. The actual aspect of you is the part the ideal you tries to kill because of its resistance to these beliefs. These are the beliefs that tend to persuade other people to change their beliefs into yours. You are being warned to be aware of some of your core beliefs connected with your current feeling about yourself. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6354 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: meeting for real... I'm with you Travis - let's ski Utah! I have always thought it to be much more of a "garden spot" anyway, and if you're going to come that far Anni, well, that would be my personal preference! Lorraine and Jean, welcome! This is the most incredible spot on the web, at least to my knowledge. Lorraine, you are surrounded by the light and the love of God. You know about the song, right? When you stand in the light, the darkness is dispelled. I do know how unsettling nightmares can be, but perhaps it is merely your subconscious mind doing some "spring cleaning" and some of the fear is just bubbling to the surface, moving up so it can move out. There are a number of wonderful people that are here for you, so please keep us updated. xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6355 From: Richard and Sharon Subject: lorrain's Nightmare's Hi Lorraine, since you are singing the song twice daily and staying so active on the list and absorbing all the positive love energy this list geerates, is it possible that the dark brother's are aware of the growth and strengthening of your spirit and are making a desperate move to pull you to their side? Wouldn't it be a bigger feather in their caps to seduce a spiritually enlightened person to their side than gathering those that gravitate to their side naturally? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Please know that we cover you and fill you in love & in the light. sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6356 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Introduction A friend brought up an interesting idea. I think you were only commenting on a hypothetical situation, that we wouldn't dream of doing today (even if we could), but thought I would comment on. JJ Dewey says: "Imagine having the power to move the star system of Alpha Centura into our solar system creating a double star and much easier access to its planets so we can transform its primitive life into a garden of Eden." Seems to me, that if you did this, you would throw off the balance of our solar system. As quoted from my friend, "The added radiation from another star in our solar system would fry all life on our planet." Breakfast, anyone? I understand that it's fairly well known and accepted in the scientific community, that changes in space can affect wind patterns on Earth, and cause various other weather patterns to occur. It's even suggested that the Eclipse on August 11th of this month, helped to cause that moderately destructive tornado that materialized right here in the heart of Salt Lake City. Tornados aren't supposed to occur in Utah. I'm not sure we would want another star in our solar system. Beyond the added radiation, it could negatively affect the gravitation pull of our own sun, thus disrupting the normal orbit of our own planet, possibly causing us to hurl out in to space, or be torn apart completely. If none of that happened, then the extra daylight would heat up our planet exponentially (greenhouse effect) and melt the polar ice caps a little faster than I would feel comfortable, thus flooding our most of our land. Plus, the humidity, can you imagine? =) I think I'd rather leave the star system where it is, thank you. =) If we have the technology to move star systems, then we have the technology to move ourselves much easier. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6357 From: J J Dewey Subject: Moving Stars Dave Comments: "JJ Dewey says: "Imagine having the power to move the star system of Alpha Centura into our solar system creating a double star and much easier access to its planets so we can transform its primitive life into a garden of Eden." "Seems to me, that if you did this, you would throw off the balance of our solar system. As quoted from my friend, "The added radiation from another star in our solar system would fry all life on our planet. Breakfast, anyone?" "I understand that it's fairly well known and accepted in the scientific community, that changes in space can affect wind patterns on Earth, and cause various other weather patterns to occur. It's even suggested that the Eclipse on August 11th of this month, helped to cause that moderately destructive tornado that materialized right here in the heart of Salt Lake City. Tornados aren't supposed to occur in Utah." "I'm not sure we would want another star in our solar system. Beyond the added radiation, it could negatively affect the gravitation pull of our own sun, thus disrupting the normal orbit of our own planet, possibly causing us to hurl out in to space, or be torn apart completely. If none of that happened, then the extra daylight would heat up our planet exponentially(greenhouse effect) and melt the polar ice caps a little faster than I would feel comfortable, thus flooding our most of our land. Plus, the humidity, can you imagine?" When the time comes (in the far future) that we can move stars and if we decided to move Alpha Centura here it would be probably placed a distance away like several times the orbit of Pluto. When you look up in the sky you would not see a bright sun, but a very bright star with the luminosity of the moon. Still this would make the system very accessible with future technology. Right now traveling at the speed of light it would take 4.3 years to get to Alpha Centura but with the new location would only take a couple days. In this future we will have full control over the weather and effects of radiation and have near complete control over the effects that such a move would create. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6358 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Moving Stars Good point. On the same note, however, if we have that kind of technology, I doubt our travel will be limited to the speed of light. I'm sure we'll have the capability of reaching just about any point in the universe by opening a gateway. 'Space folding' for lack of a better word. We could use that same technology to open HUGE gateways to, in effect, move star systems. That would be amusing to see. Besides that, I see your point. If the universe is flying away, the best way to keep it from dissipating is to at least move all of the star systems back to where they belong. I don't believe this is beyond human capability. I think we, as humans, have unlimited potential. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6359 From: Sanna Hanskala Subject: re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Having not followed this at all, although I got Rick's voice message and thought it was cool, I thought I'd ask: What about us in a digest mode? Even if somebody DID sent a wave or other sound file directly to the list, do you think it'd come through in the digest? I doubt it, but it's just possible it might... ~ Sanna -- Sanna Hanskala sannah @ earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~sannah/ "It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow." - Robert Goddard Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6360 From: Jennifer Hardin Subject: RE: nightmares Hi Lorraine, I'm so sorry about the nightmares. They can be quite discomforting. I noticed that you posted your picture just the other day. Did the nightmares start after that? I didn't bother to mention this before but immediately following the posting of my pictures on the web I started having bad dreams. Like waking up in a sweat type nightmares. Since I've been a trophy that the dark brothers have been after for many many years I wasn't at all surprised by the awful people who were presenting themselves to me in my dreams. I learned a few years ago about the waking dream thing and have been able to wake myself up when things got too hectic in the dream. This time however, I actually stepped back from the dream and told the face that had just slammed itself into my nice dream that I wasn't afraid of him, Jesus loved me and that he was annoying me. I then took a swipe at him. Shocked him I must say. He stepped back. Then he disappeared and I haven't been bothered since. Those rotten dark brothers are out there all the time. Telling them to go away and that you're loved by Jesus does a lot for making bad things go away. They haven't got a chance of handling the light that comes with Jesus and they will go away. I hope this helps some. If there's anything you need from me just let me know. I'll be there in a heartbeat. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6361 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: meeting for real... Sounds good to me, less traveling. ;) Hey, JJ's pretty close to here too, just a few hours north. ;) Travis Tracey Hobson wrote: "I'm with you Travis - let's ski Utah! I have always thought it to be much more of a "garden spot" anyway, and if you're going to come that far Anni, well, that would be my personal preference!" Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6362 From: Xavier Subject: OT Re: Moving Stars hey so this was not a simple example;-) thanks for pulling the rabbit out of the hat, Dave and JJ;-) Of course, if we are the conscious creators of the universe, we will eventually come to act on the macrocosm.. but this idea of bringing a star near our own, like making a molecular relationship there too;-).it's interesting. It feels more like music and colors to me than like anything else. Energies;-) Active choir with elements. I'm into george hunt williamson's "other tongues, other flesh", and that story about Orion is very interesting too. I also began " the sirius mistery" by Robert K.G.Temple (And Zecharia Sitchin of course;-) Thinking about the first paragraph, active choir and all, this is angelic work, the planets. And stars are archangelic work, from what who said? You, JJ? Yes ;-) So if I follow this, it means that humans, along billion of years, are bound to becoming conscious creators, whereas angels are more unconscious, less individualized. I wish you insisted on the difference, what does that free will, snake and apple, change between angels and us? What are we earning through this darkness here, also;-)) (hey i sound like a new ager lol) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6363 From: Xavier Subject: OT short nothing Marylin writes: "You'd be surprised how many of US thought it was New Jersey, too. Boy did we have a good laugh on ourselves." Yes, I have the chance to be french, NJ and New Jersey are not obviously related for me;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6364 From: Xavier Subject: Re: nightmares Lorraine Deckard writes: "I need your help. I sing the song twice a day, I'm working on a working partner, I love the teachings from NJ and my higher self and every night while I sleep I am barmbarded with nightmares about being driven down the road by a killer or watching dark brothers fight and steel souls of others. They never try to kill me but they kill those around me who I can't protect. they are near me and I have the feeling they pretend to be my friends." (snip) well what comes to me is that in numerous instances, JJ described why and how resistances can actually become attacks when one is reaching a new level of light. Each accomplishment needs a test. So cheer up, it's because of more light within you and about you, that your shadows come up and openly resist. Now they are yours, and they also may have a correspondence outside, in other beings than you. I wish I could retrieve the quotes about this on list easily. But I think that overall your call for help will make many speak out and redefine the concept, that rope of light that goes straight to heaven and safety, out of nightmares. I had a short passing idea too, as you say you know the "dark" person, put it in place of the Christ in the meditation, grand occasion;-) (I wont be there to save you if it is explosive, so decide it by yourself please) I wait to see how this call of yours will be answered, kind of delighting in advance;-) Keep me informed on list of how you fare with the beast;-) lol Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6365 From: Xavier Subject: Re: re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) Sanna Hanskala writes: Having not followed this at all, although I got Rick's voice message and thought it was cool, I thought I'd ask: What about us in a digest mode? Even if somebody DID sent a wave or other sound file directly to the list, do you think it'd come through in the digest? I doubt it, but it's just possible it might..." no a voice mail is just a link, a URL that takes you to a page where you will click somewhere and hear the voice message. it will be streamed to you while you hear it, but wont be saved on your hard drive, only a temporary buffer, like Real player. Rick said it all, but it doesn't hurt to repeat;-) lol there was a huge wave of confusion on this topic;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6366 From: Jean Subject: Re: True progression Thanks Marylin, hey great minds think alike...HE HE Change does not come easily or quickly, but the courage to change gives us the freedom to grow...... also check out my main url, it is http://www.angelfire.com/va/jeanbean25 Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6367 From: Jean Subject: Re: nightmares About the nightmares, I had one once to that deeply disturbed me, In the end of the dream, with the lords help, I overcame evil. I to this day remember the struggle in the dream, keep one thing in mind where there is darkness, there will the greatest light be.....Light always overcomes the darkest.... Love and light, Jean Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6368 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT) I get the digest at work and I just looked at the archived message. In either, you can't just click on it, but you can copy and paste the URL into your browser. They do, however, only keep them for 10 days, so we should only use them sparingly, on list, to avoid having a lot of dead links in the archives. It's nice to here everyone's voices and have others to say the song with. Mostly we should use it off line, like we do with ICQ, but, a voice, on list now and then would be a real treat. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6369 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Male Female Relationship CHAPTER TWENTY-ONE THE MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIP Part 1 The first step to creating the Human Molecule is to stabilize the male-female relationship whether it be through marriage or another type of agreed-upon union. The prime cause of disharmony in relationships has not been realized among humanity. It has little to do with personality, education, background, or other obvious factors. It has to do with energy. Male and female must be looked upon as energy units of opposite charge, just as are electrons and protons that create the balanced atom. To create balance, we must understand the purpose of the two energies. The male, or the positive energy, is radiant, action, or sending energy. The female, or negative energy (not negative as in bad, but negative as in electricity) is magnetic, attractive, and receiving. This is most easily demonstrated in the physical bodies of the two sexes. It helps here if we remember that all physical creations are symbolic of spiritual energies as well as their outward manifestation. During sex, the male body is the sender of the seed or sperm. With each orgasm many sperm are sent. The male genitals are undisputedly the sending unit. The female body, on the other hand, is the receiver of the sperm or seed and the female genitals definitely receive the male's. Only one out of millions of sperm is finally accepted for impregnation, but when it is, the growth of the baby or new creation is an automatic process. The materials for the growth of the body are drawn to the woman by the power of magnetism, which is an aspect of female energy. By taking what we know to be true here, we can correspond it to other areas and discover much truth. If the male is physically the sender and the female the receiver, then this will correspond to male and female energy on other levels. We can say then, that as energy units the male, or positive energy, is the sender, and the female, or negative energy, is the receiver. There are only two observable energies in the Universe. They are called by many names, but each of them is either male or female. For instance, the two energies that sustain the Universe are radiance and magnetism. The Sun and the stars give off light, heat and radiation that give life to and sustain all things. This is an important function but no more important than magnetism that gives form to all things and holds all creation together. Magnetic energy, such as gravity, is invisible, but its effect is just as powerful as radiance, which is visible. There would be no form to give off radiation without magnetism to create the form. Because the female energy, or magnetism, is invisible, its full importance has often been overlooked. One of the reasons the male energy has dominated in recent times is that it is a more visible energy. Even females are deceived into thinking that radiant energy is more desirable than magnetic because the use of this energy is easier to perceive. The feminine energy is indeed a mystique, or mystery, because its effects can be seen, but the operation of the energy cannot. Another aspect of male-female energy is involution and evolution. Involution is the force that pulls spirit into matter, or the world of experience. Evolution is the force that pulls matter back up to the realm of spirit after a round of experience is over. Involution is female energy and evolution is male. In the early days of man, when his prime goal was experience, the female energy dominated. Desire, emotion, and feeling are also female energies and always push us toward experience. The Biblical Eve dominated Adam with her desire for the forbidden experience. The yielding of Adam to Eve was symbolic of the time of involution, or the dominance of female energy. Mind is a male energy which, in the cycle of evolution, is meant to dominate the female emotions in us all, intelligently direct us to avoid painful experiences and lead us from matter to spirit. After the time of Atlantis, there was a shift in the polarization of humankind from involution to evolution. Men no longer worshipped the goddesses, but male gods. In Atlantis the Masters of Light and the Dark Brothers walked among men and gave them their knowledge, but in this current age there exists a firm decree that the lost knowledge must be earned by man himself by the use of mind and the dominance of mind. Because mind is beginning to dominate the world, and is leading us toward Spirit, the male energy is naturally dominant. The heavy male dominance is being counterbalanced, however, by the opening of the next faculty in man which is the intuition, which is also feminine. The main point to remember is that in the end both male and female energies will play an equal role in our Becoming.. To create the Molecular Relationship, it is important we thoroughly understand the workings of the male-female energies, for no Molecule, whether human or atomic, can become stable without the correct interplay of energy. In all male-female relationships the male unit must be radiant and sending, and the female must be magnetic and receiving, or the energy of the relationship will be out of balance. This is especially true in the human kingdom, for humanity seems to be the only kingdom in nature where it is even possible for the sexes to not play their appropriate roles. In the animal and plant kingdoms the male and female accept their appropriate roles without rebellion. Few have ever contemplated the reason why we find ourselves in either a male or female body. This is a significant event in the life of the Soul. Do we ever ask: "Why am I male?", or "Why am I female?", or "What significance does this have to me at this point in time and evolution?" We rarely do this. Instead, we may take the defensive attitude: "I am a female and I am just as good as any male," or "I am a male and men are the ones that accomplish things in this world," or "I am a male (or female) and there is no difference between the sexes" We should be asking: "Why am I what I am?" All of us have been both male and female in past lives. If one sex is greater than the other that would mean that we periodically go backwards because we incarnate in both sexes over a period of lifetimes. Both sexes are equal in value. One cannot exist without the other. Just like there is no such thing as one hand clapping, there is no creation with just one sex. They must work together. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-24/6370 From: J J Dewey Subject: Misc. Thanks for your appreciation Rick. It means a lot. And Lorraine - Your nightmare reminds me a little of the dream I had in chapter eleven of Book I where I laughed at the evil presence. You might want to read it again. Sometimes when people start saying the song some negativity will surface that will tempt you to think the Song is not good for you or that you should return to things as they were, but if you persist and go toward the positive energy it will just be a matter of time before a good portion of negative energy is dispersed. The thing to remember is that you have to earn each step in your spiritual progression. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6371 From: "Alex Appelman" Subject: Uncertain if I should write this. Hello all, I am not sure if I should write this as I haven't told this to any one because I find it very odd and silly myself. I hardly ever tell my dreams to any one at all, let alone over the internet. But now that I see there is a bit of discussion going about meeting in person, I feel that some might find it interesting to hear. The fact is that I have had a dream too; I don't remember my dreams very often, but if I do then they are usually bizarre or a bit unnerving (in times of stress), I almost never have nightmares. This one was a very bizarre one: Very shortly after I joined this list (a few weeks) I dreamt that I was walking with my friends (whom I had not even told about "The Immortal" at the time) on a big 'keyster-meeting' somewhere in the US. There were lots of interesting discussions going on and many shared their thoughts and feelings and every one was smiling, but the weird thing was that every one was dressed in '60s outfits; big rimmed glasses, wide-ending trousers (what are they called?), lots of brown and orange coulored clothes and some very out of date haircuts. The other thing I thought was odd was that there was also a considerable group of small children (aged between 3 and 8 or so). I walked with my friends and talked with them, but I didn't really seem to participate in the 'high philosophical' discussions of all the keysters, as I felt they were. Then it suddenly ended or at least this is all I remember. Now, I didn't do anything with this dream (I don't even understand it completely), but when JJ started the NJ-meditation I thought it might have had something to do with this. I also didn't understand why this dream happened to me, of all people;I was just getting the feel of what this list was all about and was having trouble keeping up with the knowledge and the issues at the time. Also I have nowhere near enough time to make a trip to the US, besides I couldn't afford it anyway. So I just put the dream aside as another bizarre dream. Maybe some fellow keysters now better what it all means, I doubt if it was some vision of a future event (would have been the first anyway). I just thought some of you might find it interesting to hear about. Best wishes, Alex. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6372 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: interpretation of my dream Thank all of you for the help interpreting my nightmare. This is what I've got so far. I am very aware of destructive acts of violence. I always have been. I see, or rather know about, evil on the earth. The selfish greed, killing others out of pain or gain and we just stop it as best we can at the moment then get back in the car and expect the killer to behave himself now. We call it "forgiveness" or letting sleeping dogs lay. Or just putting out fires. Apathy, probably says it best. I witnessed a murder (in my dream) then got back into the car and let him "drive" me and my friends pretending that nothing happened and it wont happen again. An example would be the school shootings. We contain the children after they act out but what are we doing to prevent them from having to act out? What do we do to teach and protect our children from over whelming negative feelings. We are the beast who just keeps our mouth shut and gets back into the car. Calming our selves as best we can until the next crisis. In my nightmare I was reminded that I also am the beast. I got back into the car and let a killer drive me. I kept my mouth shut. That is my nightmare. Pretty scary, huh? Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6373 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Misc. J J Dewey writes: "The thing to remember is that you have to earn each step in your spiritual progression." You have to earn each step in any progression. Be it spiritual, financial, or otherwise. People have the misconception that some things come for free. I don't believe you get anything without a price. If you win 10 million in the lottery, you will somehow earn that 10 million. That's why I don't like to participate in anything where someone 'gives' money or prizes (of great value) away. I'd rather earn it first, then get it. =) - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6374 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Uncertain if I should write this. Hi Alex, Alex Appelman wrote: "Very shortly after I joined this list (a few weeks) I dreamt that I was walking with my friends (whom I had not even told about "The Immortal" at the time) on a big 'keyster-meeting' somewhere in the US." This is not dream interpretation. It is only impressions and thought that you may find useful. As you have most likely noted, the folks on this list are all about meeting and walking together. This has played itself out in a simple form just in the sharing of ideas which is a large part of the dynamic here. But now even more so, the "gathering principle" is moving forward as never before, between the NJ meditation as well as now having potential voice communication between the keysters. So I'd think this part of the dream is intuitive at least. "There were lots of interesting discussions going on and many shared their thoughts and feelings and every one was smiling, but the weird thing was that every one was dressed in '60s outfits; big rimmed glasses, wide-ending trousers (what are they called?)" "Bell Bottoms" "ots of brown and orange coulored clothes and some very out of date haircuts. The other thing I thought was odd was that there was also a considerable group of small children (aged between 3 and 8 or so)." It's interesting that you envisioned the oldsters and the youngsters among the keysters. My thought here leans toward intuition again. I sense within myself that the work that we are all doing to balance ourselves and bring ourselves together this way will do more than just insure our current and future bliss, but that it also is occurring for the benefit of the next generation (and the ones which follow) Imagine the effect on that next generation if this one succeeds in a more perfect union with the Purpose of God. "I walked with my friends and talked with them, but I didn't really seem to participate in the 'high filosophical' discussions of all the keysters, as I felt they were. Then it suddenly ended or at least this is all I remember." Interesting. In a way, this feels like the circumstance that I am currently going through. Before the NJ meditation was initiated, I found myself having much to say and share with my fellow keysters. But when it came to this place, (being out of place with such "out of body" experience), I found all of my words and thoughts scatter like the wind. Like your waking from the dream. "Now, I didn't do anything with this dream (I don't even understand it completely), but when JJ started the NJ-meditation I thought it might have had something to do with this." Here I'd ask you if you are as unable to travel to NJ as I am. This may have something to do with the dream. "I also didn't understand why this dream happened to me, of all people; I was just getting the feel of what this list was all about and was having trouble keeping up with the knowledge and the issues at the time. Also I have nowhere near enough time to make a trip to the US, besides I couldn't afford it anyway. So I just put the dream aside as another bizarre dream." All dreams can be put aside as bizarre, but in most cases, there is usually an inherent value to contemplating its significance. You haven't the time or resources to make such a trip, so the dream affords you those things which lack in your physical reality. You state that at the time of the dream you were having trouble keeping up with the knowledge and issues here on the list. So in the dream, it's not surprising that you would wake up when you found you weren't keeping up with the conversations. "Maybe some fellow keysters now better what it all means, I doubt if it was some vision of a future event (would have been the first anyway)" Well, this may turn toward interpretation, so I'll suggest that you run this by your soul for the sake of your own understanding. The meaning that I gather from your dream may simply be an encouragement to your welcomed place among your friends. And that encouragement seems to come from the children that were present with the group. The dream allowed you to make this trip which you feel you couldn't afford otherwise. But the diversity of the group, including the kids, seems an indication to you that this journey is not exclusive to the "highly advanced", or the "ultra learned", or to the old, or the young. And if there is no exclusivity among us, and you can know this without doubt, than you may find you needn't wake from the dream, for no matter what place you assume among this group, you are welcome, and the smiles on your friends faces should tell you that your presence carries with it a great joy for all and All. Now only you know the truest feelings and thoughts present with you, and I may have completely missed the mark here. So I'll say that the only true interpretation is the one which "sparks" within your own soul. Only accept that your dream has meaning, and that meaning will present itself to you. Perhaps it already has. :) Thanks for sharing. This is the way we open the doors to one another and allow the "communion of the saints" to operate. With Love and Blessings, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6375 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Uncertain if I should write this. Alex, I've had many, many dreams about being a part of a highly spiritually advanced group that gathered in times of great turmoil. Most of these dreams came even before I ever read 'The Immortal'. Some have come after. The dreams started out with just a few members of this 'spiritual group', and has since grown to many hundreds of thousands. The biggest thing I've noticed in this group, is the incredible amount of peace within regardless of the terrible things going on outside it. We are also very unpopular to the rest of the world, as we must consistently defend ourselves from attackers. This seems very easy in my dreams, as we have superior technology. These are ongoing dreams I have at least once or twice a year. I'm not sure they are an exact vision of the future, as much as they are a symbolic vision. I believe there is turmoil going on outside us now. Yet, within this little group, there is great peace and understanding. We (as a group) have not yet experienced an attack from the 'outside world' yet, but I'm sure they will come. Once this group becomes evolved enough to pose a serious threat to the Dark Brotherhood, I'm certain attacks will come. They are already coming on personal levels, such as the case with Lorraine. Once the gathering principle manifests itself within this group, and we come together to form an entity greater than ourselves, we will find these attacks will occur upon the group as a whole. If my dreams are correct, however, we will defeat these attackers easily. Just my two cents! =) - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6376 From: Sanna Hanskala Subject: Re: MediaRing/Voice Mail(OT)_ Xavier wrote: "no a voice mail is just a link, a URL that takes you to a page where you will click somewhere and hear the voice message. it will be streamed to you while you hear it, but wont be saved on your hard drive, only a temporary buffer, like Real player." Like the first one, okay. Fine, then. "Rick said it all, but it doesnt hurt to repeat;-) lol there was a huge wave of confusion on this topic;-)" Oh. :) I guess it's good that I missed it, then. ~ Sanna -- Sanna Hanskala sannah @ earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~sannah/ "It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow." - Robert Goddard Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-25/6377 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Conscious Creation JJ writes: "The statement that probably threw you off most is that man is the only conscious creator in the universe. "Note that I did not say that he is the only creator in the universe, notdid I say that he is the highest or most important life form." "Many lower forms create also. For instance atoms arrange themselves into crystalline order. The seed grows into a flower. The beaver builds a damn. But these are not conscious creations. Ages and ages ago these creative expressions were perfected through conscious creation, but when conscious creation perfects a thing then creation proceeds without the involvement of consciousness. The atoms arrange themselves through a program they adhere to as does the seed whe3n it grows to the flower. Even so does the beaver follow a program when he builds the damn. He does not sit back and think to himself: Now let's see. How do I go about building this dam? If he did then each beaver would build a dam with much more differences from the other beavers than is now the case." *snip* "All lives pass through the human kingdom at one time or another and consciously create until fullness of joy is achieved. Then we move on and leave normal consciousness behind and identify more fully with the Life principle and BECOME through a principle of Identification rather than Consciousness. Once this is achieved we lose interest in being a direct participator in the construction of physical form and work from a point of initiating and directing ideas that are the basis of conscious creation for us lowly humans." *snip* "Man (or those in physical humanoid forms) as the point of conscious attention for God, does bear a great responsibility. Even though humans have been around in the universe for many ages we are just teenagers as a race relative to the life of the universe itself and we shall indeed go where no man, or any other life has gone before." Hello everybody, :) I was reading the above and would like to be sure I understand it correctly. If members of mineral, plant or animal kingdom do not create consciously but instead follow a perfected pattern, a program of intelligence that has been found useful and to bring progress, but contrary to this man is the only life form that creates consciously (thus brings more form into existence), plus we combine in that man is the point of conscious attention for God, does this mean that the 'lower' (tricky word:) kingdoms once were God's conscious focal points, that the Divine consciousness has sort of swept thru them before it reached us human beings (which happened after the 'lower' forms were perfected, at least as far as they can be taken thru *conscious* creation)? Can beavers learn how to build better dams with their current method of working and state of consciousness? How about Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields theory, where he states that when a member of let's say a certain bird species discovers something useful, for example how to obtain food more easily, and suddenly this 'knowledge' is spread throughout the species without direct contact even on the other side of the globe? Is this phenomenon more like registering something valuable thru observing actions of self and putting it into regular use instead of having a set conscious goal in mind? Is the way this know-how is spread among the species similar to molecular phenomenon? Still to the original thought here, like the conscious attention of God in universe is focused on mankind (the creative consciousness) and not smaller particles like plants, isn't this comparable to man being aware of his being as a unit instead of having conscious attention placed on single cells that are part of the composition of the whole? The cells of human body are sort of on a functional autopilot when you look at how they work, the chemical processes and everything, just like a flower blooming or an animal building its nest follow an established pattern. But on the other hand if the conscious mind decided to achieve something, build a more developed body or experience certain emotions for example, the cells of the body would follow this plan without being consciously aware of what they were doing, however the decisive plan made would have an effect on the state of the individual cells. This again would in a way be similar to God making a decision in the beginning, and the cells of His/Her body following the original idea without knowing what the process was about, until after eons they reached a stage where they were close enough to the state of the initiator that they become conscious beings and aware of the creation process, and how this same ability was intrinsic for them as well, and they were able to grasp it and take the original idea to new heights and greater potentials, understanding the principle of life. This would be about where we are right now, as human beings, as mankind, building the world anew. But where I am right now, my conscious mind is deciding to get some sleep, and it won't tell anything to the cells of my toes about it, let 'em be surprised baby! :D Just 'thinking out' some thoughts and questions here :) Wishing you all a creative day! :) Samu Ps. Today as I was working on creating a digital picture combining 2 pictures, where I used a person from the first one and the background from the second, my thoughts suddenly drifted to the topic that was here just a few days ago, namely Moving Stars. Just like moving pixels of what create a picture, in the future the process will be scaled up and we will be moving shiny much bigger dots of light that create much bigger vistas, worlds indeed. We have just taken the first steps, but they're in the right direction, and sooner or later we'll get there :) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6378 From: Xavier Subject: Re: Uncertain if I should write this. wide-ending trousers (what are they called?) "Bell Bottoms" elephant legs in french;-))) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6379 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: connections Hope no one is getting tired of my postings yet but I gotta share this. I went to NJ with a friend last night and a connection was made that I still feel. I actually feel tethered to the spirit world. I saw all of us connected to each other and able to "see" through each others mind and eyes. It was like being in the collective unconscious web. Has anyone else attempted to go to NJ with someone else? We kept talking to each other out loud while we went. I have the most incredible sense of connection I have ever had. I must have done something very right. If it was going with someone else I highly recommend it. Maybe it was because I was willing to go on even though I was scared. All I know for sure is I am strongly attached to the source. I keep hearing the phrase, "take one little step, get used to it, then take another." If I never take a step again I could die knowing I feel closer to the Ancient of Days then most people ever get to. Decision is the key word. I love you all. Lorraine Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6380 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: connections Beautiful, Lorraine. It is incredible isn't it? And almost indescribable but you did a great job of it anyway. Much love to you and all of the Keysters, Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6381 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Uncertain if I should write this. Xavier wrote: "Bell Bottoms"".. elephant legs in french;-)))" LOL Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6382 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Question How can a person know if they are dealing with someone who is, consciously or unconsciously, affiliated with the dark brothers? I ask because of someone I know who seems to make it a point to keep me off balance. I'm beginning to think that if I never saw this person again, I'd not miss them for a minute (and this is someone with whom I have been good friends for the last nine years). I'm kinda lost here, because I wonder, am I supposed to look for the Christ within this person even if they are "one of them"? Any guidance would be appreciated. xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6383 From: J J Dewey Subject: Chapter 21 Part II CHAPTER TWENTY-ONE THE MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIP Part II Now we approach the grand purpose of our cyclic movement in and out of the sexes. We must remember that the female is magnetic and receiving. The male is radiant and sending. Even though we are all polarized in one or the other sex in a particular lifetime, depending on the body we find ourselves in, within each lifetime there are various male and female cycles. In the first part of each lifetime, we all go through a female cycle. We are in a constant state of receivership. Our parents and relatives are giving to us and we are generally much more emotional, a female aspect. We are also magnetic. We get what we want not by going after it (an aspect of the male energy) but by being cute and loveable and drawing it to ourselves (magnetism). We go to school and receive from teachers (who radiate male energy) for about a dozen years; then (as an adult) we make the shift to the male cycle and we start giving out to the world what we have learned, usually through our vocation. Even here we may go through a lengthy female apprenticeship. The ego usually lives through approximately twenty-eight years of life (the Saturn cycle of astrology) before it will fully transfer to the male energy. The individual will then continue in this male cycle of sending energy for another Saturn cycle of about twenty-eight years; then he or she will desire to enter the female energy cycle again and learn or do something new. He may want to go into business for himself, which may require him to go through a long learning (female) experience. He may want to go back to school and learn to do something new. Often, though, he will feel dissatisfied with what he has accomplished and feel the need to improve his skills. Overall, the basic female cycle is dominant the first half of life and the male the second half, even though we make attempts at handling male energy in the first half and periodically revert to female learning in the second half. In school, females are much better at sitting still and receiving, and generally get better grades because they are polarized in the female (magnetic) energy. In activity, males are more effective at implementing what they have learned and promoting it because they are polarized in the male (radiant) energy. We realize there are exceptions, but as a whole this is true. When either the male or female is acting in their natural inborn energy it is like swimming downstream. When they are out of their energy it is like swimming upstream. If the current is mild, a good swimmer may be able to swim faster upstream than a poor one going downstream. This doesn't mean, however, the whole batch of us should swim upstream, just because one or two exceptions can do well there. Even the exception can do much better if he goes with the current. Some males and some females can do well operating in their opposite's energy but they are going against the current. They can always excel to the greatest heights if they go with the current in their own energy, just as any swimmer can attain the greatest speed going downstream. Each entity goes through both male and female cycles in his evolution. The average person will spend somewhere around seven lives in the female and then seven lives in the male during cycles of his 1000+ lifetime quest. Then near the end of his evolution the cycle will be altered somewhat. There are not hard and fast rules here. The important thing to remember is that life polarization goes in cycles just as do all other things. However, when a person escapes cyclic karma and finds the middle way path, then he reaches a position where he may choose the sex he wishes to take. He will then incarnate in the sex that will provide the greatest avenue of service for him. When the average entity first enters the seven life male cycle it will create for himself a male body, but with feminine characteristics. Then, for several lives, he will become more polarized in the male energy, ie, more radiant and action-oriented. Finally, at the peak of the cycle he will be very aggressive and masculine. After this, his bodies become more feminine until he crosses the threshold. Then, the entity is born in a female body, but she will be rather masculine and less attractive to men than when she reaches her peak in femininity. Then, after several lives, she becomes more feminine until she reaches the peak of feminine energy. At this point the entity is a very beautiful feminine female and is very magnetic (provided she takes care of her body). At her highest point in female energy she can attract anything she wants by merely making her wishes known to high-energy men. In a high-energy female body she does not need to lift a finger to attain her desires. She enhances her magnetism by looking as beautiful as possible and radiant men are happy to satisfy her every need. She never needs to pursue men, for they will chase her. Her problem is one of elimination. After the entity passes the curve of maximum female energy, she becomes more male in looks and action until she again crosses the threshold and is back to where the entity started as a feminine male. Our purpose as we go through male and female cycles and take upon ourselves male and female bodies is quite different. As a female, our soul is pushing us toward receivership. We have just finished a male cycle of sending and have benefited the maximum amount from this. We become tired of sending out the same old things and we want to learn something new. We want a new challenge. There is an eternal law which says that all souls are one, and in our apparently separate condition we must be interdependent to realize that unity. When we seek new growth and challenges, we receive stimulation from other Souls who have more wisdom and experience than ourselves and then verify that stimulation from the God within. If this does not happen, we will merely repeat a previous cycle and learn nothing new. If we really want to enhance our ability to serve, then we become female (be born in female bodies) and put ourselves in a state of magnetic receivership. As a female, then, an individual's mission is to seek out a male companion who is able to send or teach her something that she has never before realized. Her male friend must have in his repertoire learning and experiences that he can send to her and she can receive. Therefore, it is beneficial if the male in the relationship be the one who has attained the highest state of evolution or spiritual progression. The male can then do his job of lifting the female from the world of matter toward Spirit. The sending position in a relationship is not established by who has the greatest amount of facts in the memory, or through education, but by who has the greatest understanding of underlying principles behind all facts and knowledge. The understanding of principles is only attained through strenuous effort over a series of lifetimes. Therefore, the female fulfills her purpose by attaching herself to a male who can send to her and pull her up to higher levels of spiritual thought. When this happens she feels fulfilled and balanced. When she either refuses to receive or cannot receive, because there is no man in her life who can teach her, she will feel out of balance. If she is the companion to a man who is less evolved than herself, then she automatically becomes the teacher, or the male energy, even while in a female body. Playing the role of male energy in a female body is like swimming upstream. It is difficult and the person will inwardly yearn for the downstream current. Many females who understand this principle will complain about the difficulty in finding a male who can send to them in a romantic relationship. On the other hand, many males will also complain that they cannot find a female who will receive. What are they to do? The answer is to seek balance outside of the romantic relationship. The female can seek to receive higher knowledge from a sending source (male) and thus balance herself by receiving. The male can do the same but seek to teach and send in avenues outside of romance in the real world. Of course, both sexes use both energies, but the emphasis for the physical male should be on sending and the female on receiving until balance in achieved. If we can achieve that balance in a romantic relationship we are fortunate indeed, but for those who have no opportunity at present should not worry, for your cycle of opportunity will come. Contrary to what the preachers are saying today, life is fair. Why is this principle important for us to understand? To put mankind in alignment with nature, as are the lives in the miniature world in the Molecules and atoms, then the correct interplay must be established among us just as it is in the microcosm. The correct interplay and cooperation of the negative and positive (or female and male) energies in the subatomic world creates an atom which is greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore, is it not reasonable to assume that the correct interplay of male and female in the human kingdom creates something more potent than the male or female alone? The atom is created by the balanced interplay of male and female, or sending and receiving energies. The complete human atom is created on the same principle. The male and female are combined through the covenant of marriage, or some other agreement, and will happily remain in this state as long as the interplay of energies is correct. Perhaps it is no mistake that the Bible not only calls the male "Adam" (which sounds like "atom"), but identifies male and female together as "Adam:" Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called THEIR NAME ADAM, in the day they were created. Gen 5:2 If male and female united together produce one human Atom (or Adam) then we may reason that the creation of a Human Molecule is possible by taking the laws of the atomic world and applying them to the human world. As we mentioned, a Molecule is a much more evolved combination of atoms than is a single atom. The atoms still keep their identity, yet, through cooperation, the whole union of atoms becomes possible and a new creation appears. Hydrogen and oxygen united keep their identity, but, in their union, the properties produced are no longer that of either hydrogen or oxygen, but water, a totally different and more evolved substance. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6384 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Question Tracey writes: "How can a person know if they are dealing with someone who is, consciously or unconsciously, affiliated with the dark brothers? I ask because of someone I know who seems to make it a point to keep me off balance. I'm beginning to think that if I never saw this person again, I'd not miss them for a minute (and this is someone with whom I have been good friends for the last nine years). I'm kinda lost here, because I wonder, am I supposed to look for the Christ within this person even if they are "one of them"? Any guidance would be appreciated.' Hi Tracey I have the same problem/experience as you are describing. I have handled it by "looking for the Christ within" them. It's a slow process at times, but slowly my "nemises" is coming around. What I did was picture the little light they seem to have hidden under a bushel, as it says in the Bible. Then I have pictured the bushel lifting, ever so slightly, just enough to let some of the light shine through so I can see it. My only concern about doing this is, am I infringing on this persons free will. I certainly hope not. Maybe JJ can give us a bit more on this. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6385 From: Xavier Subject: Re: Question Hey be practical. Why a friend would have the right, or rather, why would you accept from a friend to put you off balance consistently, for no apparent purpose? Just give him/her a kick and move on;-) except of course if you have a "feeling" that you might learn more through pondering, BUT lets not confuse between acceptance and lack of self confidence or whatever you'd call it. In fact, the more familiar you are or want to be with the person, the more respected it is necessary that you feel with him/her, right? (hey i'm no one to answer this, so take what you like) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6386 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Question Hi Tracey and Marylin, The dark brothers are beings as consciously embodying darkness. Every being is a brother of light except when they consciously engage in activities to harm others. The state of dark brothers is not a designated status or a permanent state. The cause of darkness is the intent to sever the personality from the soul so that the personality may be fulfilled without reference to the soul. Every human being can find a seed of darkness within themself. Looking from this perspective no one can tell themself that they are absolutely free from darkness. Yet we are truly beings of light in the fundamental sense the dark brothers included. Seeing the darkness in us and the light in the dark brothers we would not separate them from us. We are actually reminded of our own darkness when we witness darkness in others. Our focus consequently would not so much be to draw a line of demarcation between the two kinds of brothers as to feel compassion for the dark brothers as well as ourselves. In upholding oneness of all and destroying separation do we grow spiritually. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6387 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Question Don't give your friend enough authority to allow them to throw you off balance. Friends, especially ones that have been around for 9 years, are very valuable. You don't want to just throw them away because they don't 'jive' with your lifestyle anymore. If someone is affiliated with the Dark Brothers, they know it. If they don't, they haven't made their decision as to which path to follow yet, and you could be one of their best hope of being put on the right path. You will have to deal with a lot of people in your life who will seems to throw you 'off balance'. Realize, the only way they can throw you off balance is if you allow them to do that. You have to give them enough of your personal power to allow this to happen. Try going back and re- reading the archives on the Beast. That might help you take back the power you've given to your friend, and allow you to be helpful to them, rather than them being harmful to you. With Regards, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6388 From: "Dave Curtis" Subject: Re: Question Oh! One more thing. If you do find out that they are Consciously aware of being affiliated with the Dark Brotherhood (which is probably unlikely.) leave. =) I heard it through the grape vine, that they can be pretty deceptive people.=) - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6389 From: J J Dewey Subject: Question Tracy asks: "How can a person know if they are dealing with someone who is, consciously or unconsciously, affiliated with the dark brothers? I ask because of someone I know who seems to make it a point to keep me off balance. I'm beginning to think that if I never saw this person again, I'd not miss them for a minute (and this is someone with whom I have been good friends for the last nine years). I'm kinda lost here, because I wonder, am I supposed to look for the Christ within this person even if they are "one of them"? Any guidance would be appreciated." We've received some good comments on this, but I'll add a couple things. Behind every person, even a Dark Brother is a soul connected with God. The difference between a Dark Brother and everyone else is that communion with the soul has been completely severed and cannot be reconnected in this system. Only a small handful have progressed to this degree. Even the typical mass murdered has not completely severed the link. But to see the Christ, or the soul, within a person does not involve seeing what is not. If the person is mean spirited or irritating you do not pretend that he is a nice guy. Instead you put your attention on the true reality - that behind this person - no matter how apparently evil he is, is the Soul. Seeing the Christ in an undesirable person causes you to forgive him of all offenses, because you are seeing from soul to soul. This does not mean that on a personality level you have to pretend like he is a nice guy and be his friend. If you are a person with soul contact you should seek friends who also have such contact, but when those of low vibration crosses your path recognize that the Christ is within them and is seeking to surface and let them go on their way with no negativity being sent or received by you. You have probably never met a true Dark Brother, but you have come across many who are manipulated by them. As entities approach closer to the dark side you can recognize them through a 'disturbance in the force" when you are around them. It will sometimes feel like they are taking your energy. You can neutralize this effect by taking your attention from them and placing it on the Christ within. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-26/6390 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-08-26 of The Keys of Knowledge List Dave wrote, "You have to earn each step in any progression. Be it spiritual, financial, or otherwise. People have the misconception that some things come for free. I don't believe you get anything without a price. If you win 10 million in the lottery, you will somehow earn that 10 million. That's why I don't like to participate in anything where someone 'gives' money or prizes (of great value) away. I'd rather earn it first, then get it. =)" And I agree Dave. But there is always the possibility that you made it (the financial win) with your thinking in another life and it's only just coming through now. I have noticed that happens. It is one of the reasons, for instance, that if I don't meet my partner this life, I'm not too worried because I'm gearing all my current thinking and activity in line with this happening and so I know it's just a matter of time. Jen Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6391 From: Xavier Subject: Re: connections Lorraine Deckard writes: "Hope no one is getting tired of my postings yet but I gotta share this." Oh no, go on, i love what you write.:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6392 From: Rick Audette Subject: Latest list Hi All, Well, I just spent 1-1/2 hours updating this list. I did some sleuthing and found addresses for several that have been on the list for a while, but had names too long to fit on the members listing at Spiritweb and so couldn't link to their bios. I haven't taken an exact count and it's hard to tell with some names, but we do seem to have more females than males. Based on what JJ said, I guess that means we are primarily a receptive group. I maintain this list and periodically post it so that we might all get to know each other better. I include Names, e-mail addresses, geographic locations, web pages, ICQ's, and birthdays. If anyone wishes to include their Mediaring phone number, let me know and I'll add it. Find your names on the list and check to see if I have your information correctly written. If you have anything to add, let me know or post it on list. We'd love to get to know you better. Even if you don't wish to contribute to the current topics, we'd love to receive a short introduction of who you are and why you are here. You are sure to receive a warm welcome. If you have a picture to share, send it to Samu Karlsson mailto:samu3@dlc.fi and he will add it to our Family Album at http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.html Here then is the Latest update of the list of Members: +++++++++++++++++ Keysters list 8/27/99 Adrian Bradley mailto:adrian.bradley@diamond.co.uk_ United Kingdom Alda Behm mailto:behm@indianvalley.com Alex Appelman mailto:Aa_appelman@hotmail.com__ Netherlands Alex Telper mailto:a5hat72@apexmail.com Aley mailto:Aley@wcl.on.ca Ambarish Chitnis mailto:chitnis@pspl.co.in_ India Amit Wadhwani mailto:chasm_god@hotmail.com Ananda mailto:ananda@superaje.com__ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/2610/ Angela Buffalow mailto:DEVIST8ME@AOL.COM Ann Brown mailto:fmexpert@yahoo.com Anni Ida West [Dec. 2] mailto:aiw@ats.dk __ Aarhus, Denmark_ http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Terrace/2242__ ICQ 12376564 AntonioJosephMartin mailto:d055777c@dc.seflin.org_ http://www.collegeclub.com/~d055777c/ Athene Ho mailto:weirdnerd@collegemail.com Barncastle mailto:tlbarnca@cats.ucsc.edu Becky Priddy mailto:Celerygirl@aol.com Becky Ryan mailto:bdryan@sat.net _ Palestine, TX Benjamin Tang mailto:vin_tae@yahoo.com Betty L. Norem [March 1] mailto:BNOREM@aol.com _ Panama City, Florida Beverly J Salzman mailto:BevSalzman@aol.com Bonnie Lee mailto:HeartBMule@aol.com Bret Walters mailto:h1817@mcleod.net Brian S. Weis mailto:Brainwise@aol.com __ Bucks County, PA__ ICQ 20234126 Brian Loehr mailto:vrcat@teleport.com Bruce Tracy mailto:indexer@lightspeed.net C.D.Hoit mailto:cdhoit@vvm.com Camille Pierce mailto:Camille728@aol.com Carmen Cuadra mailto:CCu2946845@aol.com _ Connecticut Carole Jarrett mailto:CaroleJarr@aol.com Carole Treskin mailto:natrem@natures-remedy.com_ http://www.natures-remedy.com/ Carolyn Elaine Miller mailto:Luv2par@aol.com Cheryl Schumacher-Fr.. Christopher Wynter mailto:wynter@bigpond.com_ Hobart, Tasmania http://www.anunda.com/ Chuck Schneider mailto:chksr@yahoo.com Clifford Thompson mailto:ThompsoC@sharpsec.com Clive Culbertson [August 28] mailto:clive.culbertson@virgin.net __ N.Ireland http://homepage.virgin.net/clive.culbertson Colin Chiles mailto:pinnacle@xtra.co.nz__ New Zealand Cynthia Gear mailto:stargazer@lanset.com Cynthia Selden mailto:AngelZazel@aol.com Damon Amaeous mailto:firedraake@earthlink.net David Curtis mailto:davec@accessld.com _ Salt Lake City, Utah David Goddard mailto:david@footdoot.force9.co.uk __ United Kingdom http://www.footdoot.force9.co.uk/ David Smith mailto:davidbear@kachina.net_ http://www.starknowledge.com/ David Teller mailto:tellercreations@hotmail.com __ New York,NY http://www.danwinter.com/the_gift Debbie Mazur mailto:Chantillyd@aol.com Dennis O'Flaherty mailto:dragon39.ancientdragon@pop.infoasis.com Dennis R. 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Dewey [feb 6] mailto:jjd@rmci.net __ Boise, Idaho http://www.freeread.com Julie Visser mailto:quality@chariot.net.au __ Australia Kam Baya mailto:Kambaya@aol.com Kathy Gucciardi mailto:kathys_place@mailexcite.com Katrina Booker mailto:KBHEALER@aol.com Keith Harris mailto:job@idirect.com Kemal rsdemir mailto:ortagon27@hotmail.com Kevin Shannon [September 28] mailto:kevinsha@oz.net _ Federal Way,Washington,USA Kitty Chastain mailto:mannawell@telpage.net Klaus J Joehle mailto:livingonlove@nucleus.com__ http://livingonlove.com Knight_Templar mailto:aum@philonline.com_ http://members.tripod.com/star_aeuz/ Kymberlee Turner mailto:diomo70@hotmail.com Lacey A. mailto:hanson@innercite.com Lanezach mailto:lanezach@geocities.com__ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/4789/index.html LeLona Hodges mailto:LHodges942@aol.com Leasa Taylor mailto:leasa@mindspring.com Lia Duggin mailto:groovychick6@hotmail.com LinLou73 mailto:LinLou73@email.msn.com Linda mailto:Loubet16@aol.com Lisa Folk [July 26] mailto:lfolk@mail.cybermedia-inc.com __ Taylor,BC,Canada http://www.naturalfolks.com__ http://www.naturalfolks.com/keys/__ ICQ 10905362 Lisa Marie Capaccio mailto:LMCAPA@aol.com Lois Fry mailto:loisfry@cyberhighway.net_ McCall, Idaho Lois Smith mailto:smithted@senet.com.au__ Australia Lori Burns mailto:Celtispirt@aol.com Lorraine Deckard mailto:Lorraineshome@yahoo.com__ or mailto:lorraineshome@webtv.com_ Boise, ID Luc St-Pierre mailto:st_pierre@hotmail.com Lynette McCauley mailto:lynmc@one.net.au _ Brisbane,Queensland,Australia Lynn May mailto:artemis@worlddrive.com Lynne Giles mailto:AGiles7207@aol.com __ NE Tennessee Maghavat mailto:ed9@uclink4.berkeley.edu Manuel Viloria mailto:spiritweb@viloria.com Margaret Mary-Theresa Brown mailto:BROWNMM@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU Margaret Stewart mailto:kism3t@uswest.net Maria da Concei_"o L.. Mariah MacEnucaire mailto:dcs@comteck.com Marie Mosher mailto:marie@vdot.net Marilyn A. Maple [June 19] mailto:marilynmaple@uswest.net __ Phoenix, Arizona Mark D Williams mailto:voxdoc@go.com Mark Fischer mailto:ozone@redrose.net Marquita Harris mailto:marquita@snowcrest.net Mary S H Lee mailto:Mary_S_H_YEO@mpa.gov.sg _ Singapore Marylin A. Adams [September 21] mailto:BambieA@aol.com __ Bonaire, GA Marylyn J. Brown mailto:Marylynj@aol.com Matthew David Pearson mailto:mpearson@kuntrynet.com Medreth Thomas mailto:medreth@hotmail.com)__ http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/healbyspirit/ Meenakshi Suri mailto:connector_1@yahoo.com _ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3079/spirit.html Melanie Raymond mailto:melspirit@hotmail.com merijn mailto:merijnkok@freemail.nl Mindy Burge mailto:burgem@essex1.com_ Sterling, Il_ ICQ 2876575 Mona Khalaf mailto:mona@Healer.zzn.com Monica mailto:jener8r@jps.net Nancy mailto:nancyrecipes@hotmail.com Nelda Manning mailto:nelda4u@bellsouth.net Nina Smith mailto:nina.v.smith@usa.net Norman Fleshman mailto:knowsis@earthlink.net Pam Oliver mailto:pjoliver@globe.net.nz Pascal LeBlanc mailto:illusio@nbnet.nb.ca__ Canada Patricia Roach mailto:parfos@highfiber.com__ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/http.//www.highfiber.com/~parfos Paul Padilla mailto:ppadilla@impactnet.com Paul Yu mailto:paulcyu@robotelnet.com Paula Collins mailto:WiteLite11@aol.com Penny Hughes mailto:trixie9@worldnet.att.net __ Jacksonville, Florida Phillip Hertzke mailto:hertzke@flatirons.org__ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/ Polly Wainwright mailto:epiphany11@yahoo.com Proserp mailto:proserp@club-internet.fr __ France http://www.multimania.com/proserp/index.html__ ICQ 28680897 Qadwi Bey mailto:QBey264450@aol.com Random mailto:Random61@aol.com Regine D mailto:regineM@bigfoot.com Rene K. Mueller mailto:kiwi@spiritweb.org__ Switzerland__ http://www.spiritweb.org/ Rev. Stanley B. Jon... Richard E. Audette [july 11] mailto:rea1@ont.com __ Plano,TX http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/___ Mediaring 1 972 4244838 Richard [12/10]& Sharon[4/27]Hoffman mailto:SHARRICH@webtv.net __ Arlington, Washington Rick Audette [july 11] mailto:raudette@southwesttest.com __ Richardson,TX http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ Rick Dorey mailto:RKDOREY@boisestate.edu Rishu Rishabh Shriva.. Roger Earnshaw mailto:earnro@merlin.net.au __ Clarendon South Australia Ron Mullins mailto:ron_donna@earthlink.net Ron Wallachy [October 20th] mailto:RDWALLAC@aol.com __ Portland Or. Salahudiyn Muhammad mailto:Salahudiyn@aol.com Samu Karlsson [march 4] mailto:samu3@dlc.fi __ Porvoo,Finland http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3__ http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.html__ http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/JJArchives.html__ ICQ 16569171 Sanna Hanskala mailto:sannah@earthlink.net __ Durham, North Carolina http://home.earthlink.net/~sannah/ Schuyler Roche mailto:skye@hcc.ac.kr__ S. Korea Sebastian Schadler mailto:sschadler@sc-stitz.de __ Germany Sergio Correa mailto:scorrea@jps.net Shaila Pacheco mailto:charjol@podernet.com.mx__ Mexico Shania Nelson mailto:sshine88@hotmail.com Sharon Briggs mailto:herbs4u@cyberhighway.net Sharon Jorgenson [March 13] mailto:jorgen@flash.net ___ 50m E. of Dallas,TX Sharri Lorraine [Aug. 2] mailto:l456819@idt.net __ Seattle, Washington http://www.skdesigns.com/internet/articles/healing/healing_keys.html sheena p. raba mailto:sheena_raba@yahoo.com Sheridan.j.le.Fanu mailto:sheridan78@hotmail.com Steven E. Graves mailto:graves_stephen@hotmail.com Steve Mark mailto:pedmar@flash.net __ Arlington,TX Susan (Susi) Alexander mailto:susi@healinghearth.com__ Victor, MT __ http://www.healinghearth.com Suzan Griffith mailto:SGriff1212@aol.com tajue mailto:LBPCMT@aol.com Tatyana Koziupa mailto:tkoziu@po-box.mcgill.ca__ Canada Terrance R. Brennan mailto:TeKnoBabL@aol.com _ Milwaukee,Wisconsin Terry Wasserleben mailto:twasser@geocities.com Thomas s. zolotor mailto:QuasarAZx@aol.com Thor Holm mailto:thorho@powertech.no__ Norway Tom Putman Tony Laforcarde mailto:KRYSTAL5@prodigy.net Toru Yamachika mailto:toruyama@dd.iij4u.or.jp__ Japan Tracey Hobson [October 20th] mailto:THobson@altera.com__ LosGatos,CA Travis Chapie mailto:t.chapie@angelfire.com Travis Tabbal mailto:bigboss@xmission.com Trixzy Love mailto:trixzy@webtv.net Tsai Tsung Lung mailto:u8632504@cc.Nctu.EDU.TW__ Taiwan Vignir Jonsson mailto:viggi@ismennt.is "viggi"__ Iceland WS Porter mailto:WSPorter@aol.com White Light mailto:whitelgt@bellsouth.net__ http://www.psynet.net/sacredgarden Wolfgang Matthews [April 8] mailto:wolfgang.matthews@virgin.net _ Ockham, United Kingdom Xavier mailto:xavier22@club-internet.fr _ Paris,France_ ICQ 24617686 Y.Charlie boost Yvonne Pisz mailto:ypisz@email.msn.com Zolo Y. mailto:zolo123@yahoo.com Total 204 members The following site will take you to Spiritwebs list of our members. You can click on the names and get more information and bios on those that have provided it. http://www.spiritweb.org/cgi/ml.cgi?list=keys-l&passwd=immortal&desc=1 -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Welcome home. Don't worry about your level of spiritual development. The memories and powers, spoken of here will come naturally with time on the path, they don't have to be forced. On an Infinite scale, no position is any closer than another. Nearness to God cannot be measured in 3D terms, but rather by the strength of ones focus and affinity to It. Keep reading and looking, and I promise, you will get there. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6393 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: connections Hey, are we the only ones left on the list Xavier? Been quiet lately. Maybe there's a party in NJ I wasn't invited to. ;) Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6394 From: "Alex Appelman" Subject: Thanks for thinking with me. Hi all, Thank you very much for your thoughts on my dream, John and Dave. You have written things that I never had thought of. It feels good that there are always other people around that can shed some more light on matters one doesn't understand. "Here I'd ask you if you are as unable to travel to NJ as I am. This may have something to do with the dream." I have indeed been unable to get there as yet, but I will keep trying. So I hope to see all of you there someday, With love, Alex. Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6395 From: Marylin Subject: Traveling to NJ Hi everybody I was doing a dangerous thing.......thinking again. And I also have a question similar to Alex's. It's about visualizing and imagining. To me, when I imagine something, I am able to "see" it in my mind. But at the same time, to me, visualizing is "seeing". So what is the difference between the two? Is it that in imagining, we are still aware of the physical body, and in visualizing, we let go of the physical body and are not aware of it? I have had both experiences in my life and they are very different, if my wondering is correct. Then how do we deliberately produce the visualization in meditation? I ask this because the imagination I have experienced was deliberate, but the visualization was not. This is my feminine side seeking to learn. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6396 From: Lorraine Deckard Subject: attractions Oh JJ! Thank you so much for the last posting! When I went to NJ to make my tools I was told my tools were my beauty and ability to attract others. I didn't want to share that with anyone because it seemed so strange. She told me to be more beautiful and increase my attractiveness. I knew it was right when I received the message but when I came back to earth I didn't understand it. NOW I DO! My attractive abilities are my tools for service. I'm still not quite sure how and I still feel a little funny saying I've received divine guidance to be more beautiful but the truth is I was told to increase my attractiveness. Now I know why. Thanks JJ for putting a reason to this directive. Increasing energy in Boise, Idaho, Lorraine Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6397 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: My question Thank you all for your input on the dark brother question I had. I do realize that, in a sense, I give my power to this person in that as time goes by, I get "comfortable" again, and that seems to be when I get thrown off balance. When my guard is up even just a bit, there is no problem. It's just that I don't care to be on my guard 100% of the time with anyone! And as far as Xavier's suggestion to give this person the boot, well, there are situations in life when that is just not practical (i.e. in a work setting, living arrangements like roommates, that sort of thing) - trust me, if I could, this little miss "instant gratification" would! Enjoy the weekend! xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6398 From: John Kosior Subject: Chapter 21/Seeing Christ Hi Folks, J J Dewey wrote: "Now we approach the grand purpose of our cyclic movement in and out of the sexes." Well thank God. Haven't we been waiting on this answer for, what??, a thousand years??? :) "If the current is mild, a good swimmer may be able to swim faster upstream than a poor one going downstream. This doesn't mean, however, the whole batch of us should swim upstream, just because one or two exceptions can do well there. Even the exception can do much better if he goes with the current." Ok, so we've discussed the idea here that the male will find it easier to operate from a male sendership focus, and the female will operate best while emphasizing a female receivership mindset. Yet we've also discussed that many have difficulty finding even their working partner, let alone their romantic partner. And even JJ considers that if we find true sender/receiver balance in our romantic relationship, we are fortunate indeed. Well, here's a beautiful thing. We can spend our time, trotting off to NJ and back like we're going to the grocery store, but to have a balanced romantic relationship? Hmmm. That's a tough one. :) But should it be so? No. Not at all. And I can see the keys to having this balance occur hanging all over the walls of NJ. So now let's see if I can actually reach them. :) We're instructed in the meditation to attempt to see Christ in the most annoying person we know. And so we picture the boss, or the kid, or the coworker, or whomever that we have the most difficulty with inside the circle and try to see the Christ in them. Hmmm. That seems a tall order, considering how many can't even see the Christ in their own partners. Oh. Is that a strong statement? Well let me go a step further. Most folks can't see Christ in even their own romantic partners. (Exceptions excluded) But how can this be? How can it be that we don't see the Christ that IS IN our closest life partner/s? And for that matter, how can it be that we have trouble seeing Christ in everybody? Anybody? Annoying or pleasant? From romantic relationships to professional? To answer this, I'm thinking in terms of seeing Christ in the one person you have THE MOST access to. More than any other human on the face of the earth, you have complete, twenty four hour a day access to yourself. And I must say that the one person who annoys me more than any other individual I know, is me. And the one person who annoys any of you more than any other is you. Oh. Another strong statement. Sorry, but let me clarify. You cannot see in another what you haven't seen in yourself. And when you apply this thinking to the grandiose achievement of seeing the Christ in another, you must be able to see the Christ in yourself. Clearly. Without any doubt. Because just as the Kingdom of God resides within you, so does Christ AND God. This is why the scriptures say, God has made His dwelling place among men. And that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit of God. This may seem like a long string, but if you'll allow yourself to follow this thought, I think we can start to tie some loose ends together in our understanding. And I believe that making this particular connection has the potential of allowing us to see and find our life partners with absolute ease and grace. (And of course, if I'm wrong, I want to know that too :) At the risk of making this a really long post, I want to reemphasize the fact that I am not the great meditator type, as I know many of you are. So these thoughts come from a different mode. And that is, by contemplation. Now trust me, I do understand the benefits many of you are experiencing by the actual visitation to the NJ site. But I have considered this: I see meditation as air travel and contemplation as ground travel. And although you get to where you're going faster by air, ground travel does allow you to see more scenery along the way. So with that, I'll get back to the contemplation. The reason I say that the one person that annoys me more than any other is me, is because I can see anything in another, and find a place of understanding and even forgiveness for them, when forgiveness is appropriate. But the one person that I am responsible for truly, is myself. And even when I am faced with the heavy burden of dealing with another's "problems", I am aware that these problems are only there to model and display for me, one area that I myself need to concentrate focus of improvement on. Tracey, your friend of nine years is suddenly giving you burden. Another has spoke of having trouble connecting with their partner. These and the slew of other blockages to our connectedness and bliss, do not lie primarily in not seeing Christ in the other person, but in not seeing Christ in ourselves in the midst of "their" problem. But if we could, in essence, place ourselves in the midst of that circle, and allow Christ to burst forth from the image of our own being, then do I believe that we will be able to see Christ in another. In any other. In all others. It starts with ourselves. Spreads then to our next closest relations, and then eventually to all others. I had the experience just yesterday of walking around the campus of the University of Central Florida. Now, being ten years removed from my college campus days, I'll tell you that it was quite unique to walk amidst SO many people, all interacting so closely with each other. And as I walked about, noticing everyone, I found that all of these young folks looked very beautiful to me. Like I was seeing them (all just average college kids) with different eyes. I believe that having seen, in essence, Christ in myself, has given me an ease and grace in seeing Christ in all of these folks. As with all of you folks. Now, imagine that as I was walking along, I bumped headlong into the romantic partner for my life. The chances of me not noticing, realizing, or then acting on this realization, are very slim. Remembering that I am seeing all kinds of Christ light beaming from just those average passers by. So for all of those who are using that wonderful medium of air travel/meditation. And more specifically those who are experiencing some difficulties in your day to day life with someone or some group, I would suggest you consider placing yourself in that circle. Then, becoming more aware of the Christ image that emanates from you will cause you to see, with much better clarity, that same image radiating forth from even your most burdensome associations. And sort of playing cupid here, chances are that you will find that particular working or romantic partner you've been trying to find, standing right next to you. Attracted as it were by the brilliance of Christ light that radiates from you. This is the ease and grace I spoke of earlier. To beam forth with great light that attracts everyone to you, especially those most important to your evolution. (And theirs) And as for the relationships which already exist in your life, even these will begin to literally change before our eyes. Having perceived this Christ-like balance in ourselves, serves to answer all the needs of those around us, and so our own evolution acts as the catalyst for the evolution of everyone else. I hope this has added something good to someone's experience out there. And if this little tweak leads to anyone connecting with their future marriage partner, I want an invitation to the wedding. :) With Blessings, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6399 From: Xavier Subject: Re: connections Travis Tabbal writes: "Hey, are we the only ones left on the list Xavier? Been quiet lately. Maybe there's a party in NJ I wasn't invited to. ;)" Xavier wrote: Travis wrote: Lorraine wrote: "Hope no one is getting tired of my postings yet but I gotta share this." Xavier: "Oh no, go on, i love what you write.:-)" Well well looks like an incitation? :-) i meant invitation lol if you see me behind a certain wall, keep me informed;-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6400 From: Xavier Subject: Re: My question Tracey Hobson wrote: "And as far as Xavier's suggestion to give this person the boot, well, there are situations in life when that is just not practical (i.e. in a work setting, living arrangements like roommates, that sort of thing) - trust me, if I could, this little miss "instant gratification" would!" Oh, I thought you couldn't because of feelings or thoughts. ;-) (I'm tricky? lol, i didn't mean it consciously) Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6401 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Seeing Christ Dear John, (I love it - I never get to write "Dear John" letters!) You are one profound dude! And so very right on - I AM the most annoying person I know. But seeing Christ within is, well, er, uh, next to impossible. Me thinks you just opened the proverbial cans of worms! I mean, I can see Christ within IF it is done as seeing Him as a separate entity. But seeing Christ as a cow who really needs to lose some weight is a MAJOR stretch (I do not mean to beat myself up so please don't tell me not to - I'm just being REAL here and if anyone here starts sounding like my mother, well... - but in the last year, I have realized that, due to a health problem and subsequent weight gain, I am dealing with my first real-life, overwhelming case of self-loathing... not that I've tossed the baby out with the gross bath water, mind you!).... See what I mean about can of worms? There are so many reasons I am glad to be me, and wouldn't want to be anyone else. But I cannot help but visualize Christ as the perfect, balanced embodiment of both the masculine and the feminine, and right now more than ever before in my life, I am further from that than even a good case of denial can help with! To me, Christ is all things good, not the least of which are physical traits like strength, fitness, and the radiant and magnetic beauty that one typically thinks of as feminine. What I'm getting at is this, John: I like what you said, but I need help getting there. I'm going to re-read your e-mail. Anyone else with any "how-to" suggestions, jump on in! xo, Tracey ----------------------- Tracey Hobson Customer Marketing Altera Corporation 408.544.7149 Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6402 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: PS Seeing Christ I guess ground travel and worms go together.... hee hee hee Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6403 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Seeing Christ Hi Tracey, What I thought of here, was probably not what your mother would tell you. :) But a reference: "Phil 2:6-8" "6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," "7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." "8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself..............." This and another reference describes Jesus' appearance as being of no special attraction. So even being Jesus, the incarnation of Christ himself, carried with it no special, physical appeal. And yet folks were attracted to Him by the thousands. No great mystery here. Christ Light does not show from the flesh, but from within. The purity and clarity of that light is shown when we have lifted the layers of "self loathings", out of the way of that light. This is exactly what I see happening in the meditation where we picture Christ emerging from the object of our focus. "See what I mean about can of worms? There are so many reasons I am glad to be me, and wouldn't want to be anyone else. But I cannot help but visualize Christ as the perfect, balanced embodiment of both the masculine and the feminine" Gee. Then tell me, who stands a snowball's chance in hell of meeting that criteria in your life? Can anyone? "and right now more than ever before in my life, I am further from that than even a good case of denial can help with!" LOL "To me, Christ is all things good, not the least of which are physical traits like strength, fitness, and the radiant and magnetic beauty that one typically thinks of as feminine." John, in a vision of heaven, at one point sees Christ as a lamb, having just been slain. Not a pretty picture to say the least. Now I think you're right, Christ is all things good, and yet, for some reason, the image of a slaughtered lamb still holds meaning enough to be maintained on some level. Yet I say, don't let any physical appearance distract you from Christ Light, which is spiritual. Instead, realize that all of the physical radiance one may attain will follow their ability to see the True Light within. And by the way, Mother Teresa was no great prize to the eyes. :) But a person of great beauty to those she served, as well as millions more. "What I'm getting at is this, John: I like what you said, but I need help getting there." Sorry girl. There is no "getting there". There's no where to get to. You believe what's True, or you don't. The choice is yours. But if it's any consolation, I see Christ energy all over your words as I read them. I saw it way back when you helped me with a warm and giving heart, and the best advice you had to share. So I see Christ in your words, and feel Christ in your intent. I don't know what mirror you've been using to look at yourself, but I suggest you replace it with one that reflects the truth. :) With Blessings, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6404 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: Seeing Christ Thanks for the input John. Just a few brief comments (I thought about taking this off-line, but something says not to)... "Gee. Then tell me, who stands a snowball's chance in hell of meeting that criteria in your life? Can anyone?" No, but then again, I never planned on dating Christ... maybe I ought to. =) "Sorry girl. There is no "getting there". There's no where to get to. You believe what's True, or you don't." Hmmm... I think I'll have to very respectfully disagree (or maybe I wasn't using the best verbage possible). I want to get to a place of better understanding. I can know something, a truth, intellectually (or "in my head") and yet it doesn't make an impact until it "gets there" - which is to say, until it makes the 12 inch journey from my head to my heart. So there is a "getting there" for me, and I seem to be given connective links to get me there, which I think you have given me to a degree. "I don't know what mirror you've been using to look at yourself, but I suggest you replace it with one that reflects the truth. :)" It would be called "seeing through a glass darkly" I'm afraid... that old bugaboo called the self- judgment mirror. Your kind words are touching. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have heard the same thing said to me in just a slightly different way. Guess Someone's tryin' to tell me sumpthin'! Thanks again John. xo, Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-08-27/6405 From: "BlackLeather Rain" Subject: Re: Seeing Christ Hi, Tracey! (and the list) This is my first post to the list, so bear with me, people:) I just read the Immortal earlier this week, so compared to a lot of you I'm just a baby, here :) Anyhow, this baby is going to step out of the role of student and try to fill the shoes of a teacher in this case (yes, I have been making my way through the archives of JJD's previous posts). "But seeing Christ within is, well, er, uh, next to impossible. ... " But seeing Christ as a cow who really needs to lose some weight is a MAJOR stretch (I do not mean to beat myself up so please don't tell me not to - I'm just being REAL here. I am dealing with my first real-life, overwhelming case of self-loathing..." Ahhh, that old friend self-loathing. He and I know each other quite well. I'm going to give you some stats on myself and you can do your own comparison, Tracey. I'm 5'7", 21 years old and last weighed in at 280 (about 4 months back). Point is, I'm certainly not the most petite female you're ever going to meet in your life. However, in my short period of time in this life on earth, I've learned that there is more to me than my body. I'm not happy with my current weight, but I know and have learned (with the help of a supportive, loving husband) that not only is the most attractive part of a person their inner being, but a woman my size (and bigger) *can* be sexy and attractive.. Wait.. can I say sexy on this list? In my readings of JJD's previous postings and Book One of TI (no, I haven't purchased Book 2 yet!!), it becomes quite apparent that (remember this, Tracey?) the body we live in is nought but a vehicle that we're using. This body will change, grow, break, age and eventually die and sooner or later we'll be given a new one. The disgust most of us big women feel with ourselves i