1999 - WEEK 26 Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5339 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: Sensitivity Perhaps in answer to the issue/concept of sensitivity raised on this list, I would like to share some of my experiences over the last 24 hours ... as an illustration of some of the things I have been talking about on this list. For the greater part of today, I have been experiencing a lot of very deep emotion coming up from my body .. from the region of the base and sacral chakra region. Sometimes it can take a while for me to get my thoughts together so that i can get them into words ... There are times in this work when I have to listen to what I am saying to others, listen to my reactions, and observe the children David and anunda as they interact with others in the group. I know that what I need to say to others, I also need to hear ... and I need to say it out loud so that my body hears it ... and then my body usually goes though something' . I have reached the point with in my own process work where I do not try and put a label on what is coming up ... I may experience tears as a reaction ... but tears can come from grief, anger, joy or just plain release of 'something' . I just allow that I am experiencing 'tears' or an 'energy movement' which I associate with tears. Yes, in the past, there was a need for me (and the group) to identify the emotion, but the purpose of that exercise was to move past the levels of denial within my body ... to give my body permission to tell me about what was trapped inside it. With my own genetic heritage it has reached a point where a lot of the images coming up from the body are from a time before I knew English ... so if I address an image in English, then i cannot hope to resonate with the words that put that image there in the first place. If the image is of persecution of a Romney Gypsie ... well I don't speak Romney ... and the ancestor did not speak English. But I can look for the essence of the trauma that lies beyond words ... At this point, I need to refer you back to my previous post where I talked about thought ... the pertinent bits are quoted "All fluids take the shape of their container or vessel" "Thought is fluid unless contained ... which is what happens when a person owns a thought ... then that person become the frozen thought ... until the energy of the molecular bonds of that thought are raised sufficiently for that thought to dissipate ... as when a block of ice is boiled." "To hold onto a thought (or a 'truth') requires the expenditure of energy ... where does the energy come from? Does it come from the person holding the thought... in which case that person changes to become the shape of the thought ... or does it come from the thought itself ... in which case the thought becomes 'frozen' in the container ..." "oh ... and by the way ... whose thought was it in the first place??" Today was another lesson from David and anunda ... For those who do not know, the children live in a house with their mothers and three other female members of the group (one of whom is anunda's grandmother. I and my partner Fiona live in another house across the Derwent river from them. From working with these children from their conception, and from clearing my own stuff, Fiona, myself and the others have slowly developed (what could be described as) a telepathic communication with them ... but we also have the telephone to communicate in words with the adults ( and now the children ) ... Over the last few days an issue has been coming up where I have been feeling a lot of pain and stress coming from the children ... so I ring up the other house to find out what has been going on ... and there is a discussion over what people are experiencing and what they admit they are putting on the children in their behaviour expectations ... and everything is fine for a while as the mothers look at their expectations ... and find that their expectations are actually the expectations that their mothers put on them ... But then things change ... and I start to feel a lot of distress from the children ... and one of the women rings me to talk about how the children appear to be in great distress ... and suddenly I get it ... the children's communication with me is beyond words ... as a child I saw everything that my parents said ... and did not say ... and I saw and felt their resentment that I could see through them ... because they remembered that they had been able to 'see through' their parents ... but they took on their parent's thoughts about them ... the distress I felt coming from David and anunda was their feeling the projections of resentment from the adults who resented the fact that the boys had this telepathic communication with me. But it wasn't only that .. the resentment projected was the release of the stored childhood memories in the adults ... what has been projected on children consciously and unconsciously, generation after generation ... So no blame on the adults in the house ... and I told them that ... patterns handed down, generation after generation ... actions beyond and before words ... so I could not address my body or my inner child in words that could be understood ... but my body responded to the recognition ... The moment this was recognised, (the mothers and the other adults in the house seeing what they were doing) David and anunda's faces were all smiles. They explained to them in their own words what they had been doing ... and the children ran to each adult in turn and hugged them ... End of situation ... But for me, It rekindled memories of how people (my family) had used words to try and shut me up ... words that my intrinsic knowingness knew were lies ... memories of how I had to shut down my openness to my parents because all I could feel from their projections was pain .. their thoughts hurt my body ... and my body is now releasing that pain ... and it isn't even mine ... That pain is other people's thought that I have had inflicted on me ... I had to learn to adjust to the pain ... I had to separate myself from myself in order to survive ... and every thought feeling and emotion that I try to 'release' ... I cannot ... because the reverse is a separation from my truth ... so by recognising that every emotion that I feel is a symptom for my lack of completeness within my self, I replace 'lack' with 'love' ... and once again the mirrors David and anunda have taught me how to be the parent of my own inner child ... by showing me what I am doing to myself ... The limitations of words sometimes makes it difficult to explain the process as it is taking place ... your comments and questions are welcome ... and if people want it, I'll set this out in some sort of logical sequence to make it easier for you to apply the principles of the process to yourselves ... Chris Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5340 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Sensitivity Why do you think I was scoffing? I was being lighthearted - an obviously feeble attempt at humour that you didn't appreciate. I'm sorry if you were offended as it certainly wasn't my intention. Love Glenys Jay wrote: "Hello Glenys, Actually I was thinking of smoking and drinking when I wrote it. I was also thinking of some of the most prominent religious and spiritual people when I also wrote it. Scoff if you must." Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5341 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 "Zia" wrote: "PS I have not chosen to ignore or deny what you have presented me with, I have sought to understand you and share my perspective. I have asked you questions so that you and I might discover what is true for you. I have always enjoyed your comments." It would never occur to me that you would ignore me, Zia, and I, too, have tried to understand your perspective. I think I do; I just happen to disagree with it for all the reasons I've outlined in my earlier email. There's not a lot more I can say except to reiterate my belief that we all must find our own way, supported and loved by each other. Unity in diversity. So I'll probably not comment further unless others express their views and we end up having a general discussion on the points we've both raised. But thanks for your reply :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Strange as it may seem, my life is based on a true story. - Ashleigh Brilliant Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5342 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: OT But Cute Quote I was just adding a couple of quotes to my Quotes Folder which Sharon kindly sent me and found this one from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I thought it was quite appropriate to the discussion that Zia and I have had today :-) I find it's graphic charm quite appealing. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- It is true that fish stink. It is also true that the river is beautiful. But the river would be beautiful despite the fish. What is noxious remains so. That is not to say that shit is not useful when buried in the wheat field. Bread made from the field tastes sweet, wine from the arbor sweetest. All things serve a purpose, but that is no reason to glorify what is abominable. A man must still watch where he walks and keep his sandals clean". - The Egyptian Book of the Dead Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5343 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 "When the light of LOVE is turned on, where is fear...it is gone...and where is the darkness...it never was but in a separated thought. A split thought, an impossible thought. And thank God, GOD never thought it." Oops, did I miss school, the day they impeached God? If God is, as they say, infinite and that everything is from God and of God, then how can fear or the Devil be something outside of that. I thought infinite meant the whole ball of wax, and then some. I don't think that God, or anyone close to God would deny fear. I don't buy the God is Love theory. Instead, I see love as the cords that interconnects beings in oneness and fear, that which breaks the cord. Love is not so much a thing or being as it is a point of view that one chooses to have. Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5344 From: "Jay" Subject: Re: Sensitivity Sorry Glenys, I am having a sad, sensitivite, build up to the full moon type of day and I am feeling a little wound up like an elastic band. I think I am about to reach my point of tension. Normally I love humour and yours especially but not at this time. Gee I think I will just go to bed. Keep up your laughs :o] Love, Jay Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5345 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Diane Linen wrote: "Hi All, I confess that I have felt very confused by the question of the Song and of some of the words in it. I don't feel any difficulty in the words in the Song. I have made soul contact and don't have a conflict with it. So my difficulty was, have I *truly* made soul contact and gotten the *right* answers or am I just a lost soul with the wrong answers? I didn't feel any conflict from the beginning when Father was a word that was questioned when we were first given the Song by JJ." Well, if it's any consolation, Diane, I don't feel any confusion either. There will always be those who have differing views from our own. The test is finding a balance between keeping our own views constantly under review in the light of new information/knowledge but not being swayed when our souls confirm the correctness of those views. Otherwise we will be tossed about all the time. "Lost and confused in Texas," Cold and hungry in Wellington Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Strange as it may seem, my life is based on a true story. - Ashleigh Brilliant Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5346 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Darling Zia, everyone, I'm sure you're not the only one who has questioned the words asking for protection in the Song. And judging by the few comments you've received already, it would appear that there is considerable sympathy for your viewpoint. It harks back to the perennial 'Problem of Evil'. Does it exist or is it something that we have created and if the answer is the latter, does evil disappear if we no longer focus on it? I would need a lot of convincing to take on board any assertion that the world isn't governed by the laws of duality and polarity. Many people think that because they've gained a little knowledge they have transcended the effects of these laws in their lives, in the same way that they also believe they're not subject to the laws of karma and cause and effect. But we've had that discussion already :-) But I think that, at best, all we can hope for is to learn to operate with maximum effectiveness within these laws and in doing so, gain mastery over our lives and the circumstances in which we find ourselves. To believe that these laws no longer effect us is, in my view, equivalent to compromising one's grip on reality. Because we live in a world of polarity and duality, we are faced with opposites: positive/negative, light/dark, good/bad, life/death etc. Even love has an opposite (or perhaps better described as an 'inherent contradiction') - fear. The fact that we may not believe this in our 'personal reality' doesn't mean that the opposites don't exist in 'objective reality' (JJ, I hope you will bear with my loose use of these terms :-) I think Jesus knew this very well. He admonished us to beware of evil forces more than he urged us to be aware of good ones. He knew that people were prone to denying the influence of evil in their lives; that they were prone to burying their heads in the sand. (BTW, I use the term 'evil' symbolically just as the word 'God' is a symbol for me). So, for example, He spoke about hell more times than He spoke about heaven , sometimes in the most graphic of terms. (I was interested to read once where someone did a tally and found that Jesus spoke about hell more than all the biblical writers put together.) He encouraged us to ask for protection from evil in the Lord's Prayer and was not immune from the effects of evil Himself, which culminated in his enduring great suffering. You would think that if it was possible to deny evil merely by refusing to think about it, Jesus would have taught us how. But He never taught that suffering and misfortune were illusions; rather He gave people the tools to cope with and transcend evil. One of those tools was to ask for protection from 'Our Father'. In declaring Himself to be Light, Jesus wasn't saying that Darkness didn't exist (indeed you can't have one without the other) but was stressing that Light can overcome Darkness and that He held the key to our learning how to do that. In the same way, we are aware of the existence of the both the White and Dark Brotherhoods. I can't imagine that the White Brotherhood would say that the evil perpetrated by the Dark Brotherhood doesn't exist or doesn't have an impact or will disappear if it's ignored. As far as I can see such a denial would lead to a rout of the forces of Light. It has always been a weapon of the forces of darkness to try to make people disbelieve in their existence - that to believe in evil is primitive somehow. It's very easy to get the upper hand if people don't believe you exist, especially when they haven't really wanted to believe it in the first place. In fact, I think this is one of the most unhelpful beliefs promulgated by the new age movement. But I'm sure the White Brotherhood are ever aware of the power of the Dark side (I know I'm Sounding like a Starwars character and I'm smiling as I'm typing this 'cos I'm starting to feel corny :-) and are always watchful for attacks, not out of fear but in order to neutralise them, and perhaps more importantly, transform the negative energy into good, therefore making it powerless. One has to be aware of destructive potential in everyday life as well though. When I cross a busy road, I don't focus on the knowledge that the zooming cars can kill me. Rather I focus on the best and safest way to get across the road, But if I wasn't aware of the fact that I could be killed (and act accordingly) I would be flattened very quickly. Awareness is not the same as focus. When I think of the problem of evil and how it impacts on my life, I focus on how to use the experience to create more light and love. I'm grateful for it because it builds character, helps me grow in wisdom, love. Compassion etc. Evil provides me with just as much catalyst as goodness (or maybe even more given the fact that I'm just stating to grow ie I may still be more responsive to negative stimuli than positive ones - although I hope not! :-) It is a very valid and helpful reference point. Without that polarity, I wouldn't know where I was going, having nothing in my life against which to measure my progress - or lack of it! :-) I'm not sure how anyone can believe that destruction, pain, chaos etc doesn't exist in any definition of reality. On one level, we can't have new life without the destruction of the old (new wine into old wineskins principle) and on another level, we are surrounded by sickness, despair, murder, death etc. The photos coming out of Kosovo give testimony to the fact that evil is alive and well in the world today (although, of course, we all know it's on it's way out). Now I know that some people will say, "Oh. I never look at those horrible photos anyway" but that doesn't deny their existence or the circumstances which gave rise to them. In my opinion, denying negative energies leaves one with a concept of reality which at best could be described as incomplete. We cannot walk in the light without having an awareness of the darkness otherwise how would we know we were in the light? The test is to learn to control both the light and the dark energies which impact on our lives. One of the ways is not to deny the forces of destruction but to be aware of the potential for harm and seek protection from them as we choose light and life. I don't think it's accurate to say that darkness can only have power if we give it power and meaning. Certainly we can minimise its effects in our lives but I cannot interfere with the freewill of others. That includes, say, the destructive actions of a jealous co-worker or a drunk driver heading my way or the 'illegal' workings of the Beast (or Unearned Authority for newer list members who think I've gone off my 'rocker' completely). As far as I'm concerned I'd be silly not to seek protection from these things as I strive to walk in the light. I found it interesting that one of your problems, Zia, is that you're unable to think of 'destructive forces or feelings' when saying the Song I agree that would be difficult, not to mention unhelpful. When I say those Particular words, I focus on the 'protective' element and picture white light surrounding me. So a different emphasis may be helpful to you. Finally, please forgive this long, rambling and disjointed email. It's been written in stages as I do other pressing tasks and it badly needs a good edit. But time presses - or is that another illusion? :-)) Thanks for the food for thought, Zia. I enjoyed your email a lot and identified with you in your struggle as I've had to grapple with the reality (or not :-) of evil many times during my walk. The above are my 'current' views. Who knows what they will be tomorrow :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Strange as it may seem, my life is based on a true story. - Ashleigh Brilliant Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5347 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Sensitivity Jay wrote: "Sorry Glenys, I am having a sad, sensitivite, build up to the full moon type of day_ and I am feeling a little wound up like an elastic band. I think I am about_ to reach my point of tension." Well, I know how that can feel and you're right, it's full moon tomorrow. Time to sprout hairs on our hands and go outside and howl. "Gee I think I will just go to bed." Sweet dreams and have a happy day tomorrow. Big fat Kiwi hugs_ Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5348 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Duplicate Emails - OT Apologies for the duplicate emails that are appearing. I know a double portion of me can be a lot to bear. One can just have too many blessings in their lives :-)))) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5349 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Destruction Zia, I can go along with so much of what you wrote in your last post. But I have to draw the line at what I see as your denial of destructive forces. I agree it is best not to focus on them because putting attention on something magnifies it and can bring it into one's personal circumstances, but creation, destruction and preservation/ conservation are, to my way of thinking, 3 forces very much in evidence all around me. They are natural parts of the life cycle on the plane on which we exist - not good or bad, "but our thinking makes it so" (sorry, Shakespeare!). What do you call the hurricane that tears up everything in its wake, or the forest fire that razes the trees to the ground, or the person who takes to a school with a gun and mows students down, but destructive. I would prefer to be protected from such incidents but at the same time accept them as part of this world I have co-created. An example:- Last year I found a kitten freezing to death on a country road at midnight. I couldn't find the mother or rest of the litter so I took him home and fell head over heels in love with him. On his first venture out of the house 3 months later he was killed (I don't know by whom or what). I felt pain such as I had rarely experienced. Later I came to realize that the prospect of death/destruction is included in every life and the possibility of a relationship ending is inherent in its beginning. Had I really come to terms with this before I found the kitten, I would not have been so devastated but accepted it as nature's way and a potential part and parcel of taking him on. Now my kitten's body is in the ground, fertilizing it for new growth of plants in Spring, and I am happy I had the time I had with him this time round. I share your belief that the kind of Love to which you refer has no opposite, but if we were Love itself and One, we would not be here on this physical plane where the law of duality operates. For us it is still a concept, not a reality. This is where we are headed but perhaps we need to make the most of the experiences we have made for ourselves here instead of resisting them. They have their place. God is everything, Love, Light, Power, and in that Power is the power to destroy, create, conserve etc, etc.... all inclusive. It becomes a disciple to be inclusive and not reject any part because in rejecting he is rejecting a part of God and actually giving it a separate existence which is moving away from Oneness. (A bit like how an atheist is actually a 'theist'. To assert that he does not believe in God is to imply there is a thing such as God not to believe in.) The disciple can choose not to express the destroyer (Shiva, in India) aspect but this does not mean she does not have the capacity for it. I learned a visualisation/prayer from a man called Paul Solomon that I like.... "I surround and protect myself with the Light of the Christ, across which no mortal error dare set foot." Love Jennifer Stop press: Glenys - I just read your response to Zia. I wish I had read it first - it would have saved me a lot of typing and Zia some extra reading. Also occasionally I get great laugh from some of the humour that emerges on this list, eg your Ashleigh Brilliant quote, Glenys. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5350 From: J J Dewey Subject: A Secure Foundation I was contemplating the latest criticism of the Song and I asked God in silent prayer, "is the wording correct about protection? Would the Song be better if it was 100 per cent positive?" The voice of the Spirit came unto me and spoke: "Joseph, my young brother, The principles I have taught already have illustrated the importance of preparing for the negative as well as the positive. Do you not remember the parable of the house built upon rock and the other of sand? This teaching I have taught to many in numerous renditions according to need. Now the need has arisen again. Take the parable written anew that I have put in your mind and heart, and write. Write so a child can understand yet a man of learning will be silenced by the wisdom. Write with the sword of Spirit and Truth that penetrates all hearts that do not resist. The Parable There was once a loving father who had two sons who had just taken wives and had need for a home of their own. He therefore, called his sons to him and spoke. "My sons. The time has come for you to have a home of your own and I am willing to help you obtain this desire. Each of you may choose a parcel of land from any part of my vast estate and partake of any of the building materials I have available. You will have to build your homes yourselves with your own labor. I would encourage you to work together as some of the labor is difficult for one alone. The two sons were enthused about this idea and they both traveled the Father's estate looking for the ideal place to build their homes. The two sons traveled to many locations and finally to the most pleasant part of the estate, a beautiful sandy beach graced with pleasant splashing waters, fresh salty air and sunny skies. "I love this place," said the second son. This is where I will build my house and live a life of sweet enjoyment. If you build your house here also we can have a fine association. We can live off the wild fruit that grows nearby, do a little fishing and hunting and have much free time relax, play, travel or whatever we wish. What say you my brother?" "That sounds tempting," said the first son, "but I have several concerns. Presently the weather is peaceful and sunny, but I have heard from nearby residents that in times past there have been some fierce storms, even hurricanes here and that every home that was made upon the sandy beach was swept away never to be seen again." "So not fear my brother," said the second son. "If such a storm did happen it was a long time ago, but times are different now. Tune in to the spirit of nature and you can feel the peace and inwardly know that the God of nature would never send such a fabled storm as long as we live here in peace together." "Why do you think such thoughts? Twenty years ago a storm came here and killed over 100 people and left more hundreds homeless. Are we somehow better than they were?" "Not necessarily better, my brother, but wiser. You see people who are destroyed by a storm have their lives ruled by fear and worry. They accept turbulence into their lives through that which they accept and decide. I refuse to see storms and turbulence inside and outside and because I chose the path of peace I can live in any location and no storm will be drawn to me. I refuse to let it become a part of my reality." "Where did you get such a philosophy?" asked the first son. "Our father never taught us such things?" "Maybe not, but while you have stayed at home and worked in Father's fields, I have traveled to other lands and learned much wisdom." "And what is this wisdom?" "I met a wise old philosopher who lived in a cave and he took me under his wing and taught me a great mystery of manifestation." "And what is this mystery?" The second brother paused and continued: "He taught me about the power of thought and that thought creates reality. People draw fearful things to them because of their fearful thoughts. If I can eliminate my own fearful thoughts then nothing will manifest in my life that has not been created by my thought. Therefore, if I build a house here I will think only peace and good weather shall be a continual thing. I worry about you though, my brother. Because of your fears you may draw storms to yourself." "You misunderstand me," said the first son. "I do not fear any storm, nevertheless the season of storms will come whether I believe in them or not, or fear them or not. You have not thoroughly tested this philosophy of yours and yet you are willing to bet your life and that of your family on it? I believe it would be wise to make preparations for storms, then we can live in peace even though we have an awareness of turbulence. Your false philosopher teaches you to be in peace through denial of reality. As for me and my house, we realize that there are destructive forces in the world and we need to make necessary preparations to withstand them." "How little you understand," said the second son. "The wise man taught me that destructive forces are illusion and that to prepare for them is to acknowledge their existence and feed them with power. The future is so simple. All I have to do is to not feed the forces of evil and then there will be no evil or turbulence or storms in my reality." "But you fell and hurt yourself the other day," said the first brother. "Were you doing or thinking an evil that caused this to happen?" "I let my guard down. Also there was a lesson that I needed to learn from the fall and I was not hurt badly so all ended well." "Well, to prevent a hurricane is a much greater accomplishment than preventing a fall. If you have not achieved protection on a small scale what makes you believe you can achieve it on a grand scale?" Because of what I feel and receive within myself," said the second son. "Inside myself is a great peace and I know that nothing will disturb it." "You have one witness, a witness I also have. Internally, I have peace also and my communion tells me that dualities exist in this world and we must make preparations for them. In addition to this I have a second witness and that is my observations of the outside world. I see that storms do come periodically and that preparations just be made for them. I do not fear them because I am ready for them when they come. You do not fear them at present because you are in denial, but if you do not prepare you will fear when you are forced to face that which you deny." "We shall see. You are just caught up in old beliefs, but for me I am letting them go and will build my carefree home on sand and live and play amongst the lovely beaches, not allowing the thought of a storm to cross my mind." "I am going to build my home several miles inland," said the first son. "I know of a place that is shielded by mountains and trees. There I can lay a house on a sure foundation of hard concrete so it will be impervious to any storm." The two brothers drew up their plans and met again in the hope of working together as the father had said. "This is not fair," said the second brother. "Your house will take ten times the work to build as mine. My foundation is sand, yours is concrete. My roof is grass, yours is heavy expensive tile. My trusses are branches, yours are fine steel. And many other time consuming items you have added. You are really fearful about a storm aren't you, my brother." "I keep telling you that fear has nothing to do with it. To make preparations to deal with possible realities is caused by a sense of responsibility and such responsibility destroys the possibility of fear. Do I fear when I drive down the highway even though there is the possibility of an accident? No because I drive responsibly in such a way that accidents are avoided. Such prevention of destructive forces eliminates fear." The second brother kept staring at the plans. "This will not do," he said. "You are going to have to build your house and me mine; otherwise I will spend ninety per cent of my time helping you." "That doesn't have to be," said the first son. "I can see you are determined to build here by the beach. How about if we set back your house a little where there is some solid ground and I will help you build a house like mine with many reinforcements? Even though you have no shield from mountains and trees here we can give you a good fighting chance if a hurricane comes." "Not necessary my brother. I desire the simple life and if I spend all my time building a house such as yours I will not have time to enjoy this beautiful place. I can throw up simple living arrangements in a few days and my wife and I will soon be living the good life while you work away at unnecessary protections." The first son looked on in sorrow. "I do not fear for myself, for I will make sure my family is protected, but I do have great concern for you, for you are my brother and I love you and want no harm to come to you." "And I worry about you not having a life," said the other. Thus the two brothers failed to work together as one and went their separate ways and built their homes. The second brother finished his simple home quite quickly and when he was finished he spent many leisure hours by the beach, fishing, boating and enjoying the sun. Even though the peaceful rays of the sun were nice he grew bored and decided to pay his brother a visit. He found his brother working hard on a sturdy, but beautiful home that was about half finished. "I knew this was going to take a lot of work," he said. "Who is this guy helping you?" "I can't do all this alone," said there first son, "so I had to hire someone help me do that which you would have been doing if we had helped each other. We are working many hard hours here, but I have great joy in my labors because I know that we will have protection from all destructive forces that will ever rise against us. "There you go worrying about destructive forces again." Then he got a little agitated. "If you would just let go of your fears about these storms that only exist in your mind then we could enjoy some great fishing together. "I'll have my whole life to fish when my house is done. On the other hand, I think it may be you and not I who has the fear. I perceive that one of the reasons you are in denial about the possibility of a storm is that you fear it. By burying a belief in current reality you think you can bury fear, but you are deceiving yourself. A buried fear sprouts and grows forth like a weed and eventually looms much bigger than ever." "There is no denied fear in me, but only peace and love." "I hope so," said the first son. "Even if I do lose my home, which I won't, but if I do I will not lose much for I have little investment. But look at you. You have made a great effort and have much to lose if something happened to your home." "A home is more than an investment. It is a means of protection and that protection is worth any investment necessary." Time passed and the first son finished his home and had children and raised them there. The second son also had children and raised them at the beach. For a long time it seemed as if his philosophy was working for the weather was peaceful for a number of years and the second son grew secure in his safety by reason of his thought process. Then came a day that a great storm gathered. This storm had a life of its own and recognized the thoughts and intentions of no man. The storm drove across the first son's residence, but was resisted by the mountains and trees so when it passed over the home the foundation and secure beams held everything in place. All during the storm the children played with their toys with smiles on their faces as if the sun were shining outside. The storm passed on to the beach and as the second son saw it approaching his heart began to fear. He kept telling himself over and over to not fear and to have peace, but nothing seemed to work. The storm was upon him and there was nothing he could do for his family. His home was lifted up like a frail leaf and blackness was all he saw. After what seemed like an eternity he awoke on the beach with several people working to bring him to life. He got up and looked for his family, his wife and children, but the storm devoured them and they were never seen again. He looked up at the skies and shouted "Why God! Why did you allow this to happen?" He shouted it out three times and then hung his head in silence as he thought he heard a still small voice reply: "My son. Why did you allow this to happen?" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5351 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: OT Song of 144,000 "Zia" writes: "I would need a lot of convincing to take on board any assertion that the world isn't governed by the laws of duality and polarity. Many people_ think that because they've gained a little knowledge they have transcended_ the effects of these laws in their lives, in the same way that they also believe they're not subject to the laws of karma and cause and effect. But we've had that discussion already :-) " "So are the minds in this world in a state of LOVE, or are most of them living in a state of fear? There is the duality and the subsequent polarity, and it reflects into our world. What is the state of mind of Christ? Is it a state of LOVE that can see another's separation into fear within their mind, observing their thoughts, but identifies with the LOVE that they are, and will forever be?" Zia, it's not the way the Masters describe what they achieved. They say they create no more personal karma, *because they purified and developed themselves to the extent that they manage the law of karma* In no way do they say that they reached a state of mind that is above (well yes) but that because of this they annulate karma or evil, or_ destructive things. They work with the world, including it's destruction aspect. They have that soul, in fact monadic (spirit) consciousness that is way above evil duality. But they use it to manage earth dualities smoothly enough not to produce any involution more. I searched for the word involution, because "destruction" they do produce or stimulate when it is useful. So IMO that state of mind above duality is of good use, especially when you learn to put it in its right place: as a tool that must go along with normal earthly dualist consciousness, not replace it. Our bodies are vehicles, you sure wouldn't want not to be able to discern between cold and hot would you? Well_ "destructive thoughts" is like that. (IMHO, yes, at least I know it's much incomplete, but I feel I am stressing an important point) In a particular situation where I don't take care of destructive forces, I simply lose the consciousness that they are here. It doesn't help me to overcome them, in fact it makes me an easy prey for them, until this suffering makes me react, after I have grown a little more. Then I gain once more consciousness of these issues, in the hope from my soul that I take courage to face them and act accordingly. I always know that reality is better than I can imagine, in the long run, but I also always know that there are much more horrors than I am conscious of. Only when I get greater can I see more of them and take care of them. (Of course I don't need to see all horrors there is.) (And yes, "there are no evil nor good things in the universe, because all was created according to immutable laws", meaning there is no evil. But there is what looks like it.) So in the appearance, there is much evil, yes. The consciousness that reality is above this is good, but IMO it is better when you are conscious of the appearance and the essence at the same time. I see what is called evil, and I know it is not, and this knowledge allows me to see really deeply the wounds of nature without believing in their delusion. Thus healing:-) (And this state of consciousness is achieved when one has the strengths and abilities to do so, which is not *always* :-) the case.) So this is a constructive view of destructive forces, not a refusal of their existence in my mind. Subtle topic:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5352 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: Sensitivity Yes Jay, rest assured that Glenys never scoffs at people, whatever it means BTW:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5353 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Zia writes: "all the healing methods will fail if the condition to be removed is focused upon, it keeps it in_ existence. One cannot remove a headache by saying 'I am headache gone now!' The headache is empowered." Wonderful post Zia. Just was wondering if you had ever known my dad. When it came to pain, he once told me that if the right foot hurts, then focus on the left foot and how well it feels. (he studied Yoga for years) I was young, tried it once to see if it worked (it did) and then it went in one ear and out the other. lol I also say/sing the song at least once every day since JJ first contacted me about Book 1, 3 years ago now? I, too, had been wondering about the negative word destructive. So I picture protection from destructive forces as a shield around a "black hole" knowing that the light is with me. Protection from destructive thoughts and feelings comes home to the conscious mind and I picture my inner self nudging me when such thoughts and feelings come so that I have a chance to reverse them quickly. In my way of understanding, forces come from a source I did not choose to receive from, although it seems, now that I think of it, that there is some minute separation involved, or is it discernment. Hmmmmmmmmm.....got to ponder this one. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5354 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re : Re: OT Song of 144,000 I wrote: "(And this state of consciousness is achieved when one has the strengths and abilities to do so, which is not *always* :-) the case.)" Reading my post once posted makes me feel like the one writing here is way above the clouds; be informed that I wish I could put that state of consciousness in practice. I am most entangled in the contrary. I feel I *know how* it works, but everything still remains to be done. Realized. Matter resists spirit, and its resistance makes much of the evil we see and live. It incarnates in us (this resistance). Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5355 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Blessings to you gals, In my understanding there is no such thing as right or wrong, but rather correct or incorrect, negative or positive. When you think about it, the word "wrong" can alienate another while the word "incorrect" leaves the door open for thought and communication. We tend to see ourselves in others and sometimes when we see an aspect of ourselves that we would rather not see, it hits home deep. Darn net better not knock me off right now. I love everyone on this list deeply and give blessings to all. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-28/5356 From: Zia Subject: OT: 10 Ways to Drive your Karma & curb Your Dogma Greetings to All, just a gift that arrived this morning... In love and laughter...ZIA From: Australian Connection (Jenny Gurney) or SpiritWeb: http://spiritweb.org/ - Large spiritual site > 3,000 pages, many mailing-lists, chat-places, online audio & video SpiritArt: http://spiritart.org/ - Photography, WebArt, VideoArt Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5375 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: OT - [Fwd: [spirit-l] Bhagavad-Gita Online Class @ Glenys Lowery wrote:_ "This was posted on the Spirit List and I thought some of you who don't subscribe to it may be interested. There are also plenty of online editions of the Bhagavad-Gita as well; you can find one of them on JJ's Links page - http://www.freeread.com/Links.htm" Thanks for the info Glenys. "PS Jay - I'm pleased you're having a better day; nothing like a good howl at the moon to do it! :-)" Hoooooowwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllll! Yes, I think I feel better now too. ;-) "PPS Jennifer - Glad you liked my Ashleigh Brilliant quote. He came up with some great one liners in the 70's. It's a bit of a worry to me that I still like him though. My next bad taste act will probably be to go and see the 'The Spy Who Shagged Me"! Yeah, Baby!!!" Oh NO! I was thinking of seeing it next too. "PPPS Sam-uuuuuuuu!!! Wherefore art thou! I miss you!!! Do I have to come all the way to the other side of the world to plant you in front of your computer!! You are so much a part of this group that I start to have Samu withdrawal symptoms if we don't hear from you for awhile." Double Ditto Re: Samu. I love his musings and postings. much love to you Glenys and all. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5376 From: J J Dewey Subject: Facing the Negative Since it is important that all who say (sing) the Song do so from a viewpoint of understanding I thought I would make some more comments. Zia (and I'm sure there are others) question the wisdom of using words like "protection" and "negative forces." The feeling in this group is that the acknowledging that protection is necessary gives energy to it and creates the need for protection that did not exist before that point. Many also feel that by acknowledging there are negative forces feeds the negative and gives them power. Zia gives us this quote: I once had a splendid teacher that told me, argue for a limitation and it is yours. So the questions is - is this a true principle? Do we feed the power of negative forces by the mere mentioning of the phrase? First, Zia's quote does have some validity. If you do indeed argue for a limitation, it will be yours, but the mere mentioning of a negative state is not an argument for it. Let us take the state of homelessness and poverty that exists throughout the world. Now let us suppose that all those who have abundance decided that the words "poverty" and "homeless" were negative words and decided to never use them and attempted to put themselves in a state of mind as if the poor did not exist. What would be the result? The result would be that there would be none who would be advocating helping the poor because they could not even mention them and soon the poor of the world would be completely ignored. I can see it now. The positive person only using positive words as abundance and prosperity as he steps over a homeless beggar because he does not even see him in his reality. What good is some individual bliss, or even love, if it is not extended down to the so-called negative states so it interplays in the world of duality? I have watched people throughout my life who fit into three categories. (1) The extra positive person who makes an effort to not even think a negative thought or say a negative word. (2) The opposite person who always seems to dwell on the negative. (3) The person who is positive in attitude, but has no qualms about using a negative word or examining or planning for negative situations. From my observations I have found that the least successful of these three categories is number one. Now the extra negative people usually do not enjoy high success, but I have been surprised how many of them are moderately successful. The most successful of these three is number three. He expects the positive, but is prepared to deal with the negative that does surface from time to time. The situation of the free world previous to World War II illustrates my point. A great war had just been fought and won and no one wanted to even think about the possibility of another war because World War I was the "war to end all wars." Many peace groups started up with a positive consciousness similar to numerous new age groups today. There was also a boon in channeling and Spirit contact and almost without exception all spiritualists were predicting and speaking only peace up to the final week that the World War actually began. Many of these groups refused to even consider that war may break out and carefully censored themselves thinking that a purely positive use of words would influence Hitler. On hindsight it seemed as if the whole free world was asleep to the dangers that awaited them. If they had been aware they could have been like the first son in the parable and prepared for that which was to come. Was there anyone who saw things for what they were, who was "sensitive" to the negative as well as positive possibilities? There was one man, and unfortunately only one public figure, who dared see the potential negative as well as positive. His name was Winston Churchill. When he first heard the name Hitler, about seven years before the war something in his soul spoke to him and told him that this man was going to become a great danger to the world. So what did his soul do? Did it tell him to only think positive thoughts and Hitler would go away. No, thank God. Churchill felt strongly impressed through the soul (and telepathic messages from the Brotherhood) to warn the world of this man and this is what he diligently attempted to do. For the next seven years, suffering through much criticism and ridicule, he warned the world about the coming Nazi threat. For seven years he concentrated almost entirely on the growing negative situation and was a thorn in the side to the positive feel-good people he saw around him. Finally when Hitler invaded Poland and England saw that war was upon them because they blissfully were asleep to the negative, a wakening finally occurred. And who did they turn to? Mister negative himself. They got rid of mister positive - Chamberlain - and replaced him with Churchill as Prime Minister. Every time I think of this event I do so with a thankful heart, for after studying World War II I firmly believe that Hitler would have won the war if it was not for Churchill. The interesting thing is shortly after he became prime minister he gave one of the most positive speeches in the history of the world, the "we will never surrender" speech. This speech was definitely inspired by the Great Ones. I felt moved to tears when I read it. Now getting back to the Song. The main purpose of the Song at this time is to bring down protection for the Lights of this little planet, those who will actively work to make the needed changes to bring in the New Age of peace and abundance. In every past age, despite all attempts to be positive, a very high percentage of these workers have been killed. The Christ, the greatest of all, was crucified and eleven of his disciples plus thousands of others were killed with torture and violence. Look at any time in history where disciples worked for positive change and you will see that these brave souls went through tremendous persecution to accomplish their missions. This age it must be different. And that difference will come not through the focusing on the positive alone, for we live in a world of dualities. Many disciples in ages past tried to concentrate on the positive alone and yet found themselves in traps because of lack of preparation for the negative. The purpose of the Song is to give us the spiritual protection we need so the physical lives of the disciples will be protected from persecution and their thoughts and feelings will be protected from psychic attacks from the Lords of Darkness. The Song must be said unselfishly. It is true that the saying of it brings peace and personal benefits, but this should not be the prime goal. The prime objective should have the whole group in mind. When you see the light and Love and Power manifesting see it manifesting and helping all the group. If this is dome successfully with the same thoughts and words then each individual will receive more spiritual energy than he could possibly give out. But we must be united in thought and word and deed to make this happen. The power we have received from the Song is only a slight foreshadowing of that which is to come if the singing of it is not corrupted. I want to end by stressing the need for unselfishness in using the gifts of the Spirit. While it is true that Jesus did still the winds, partially due to his inner peace, you will notice that in His three temptations he refused to do any miracle that benefited Himself alone. Every miracle that He performed was to benefit someone else. Even the quieting of the storm was to save His friends. In our personal lives we are expected to do all we can for ourselves before we receive any help of a miraculous nature. This is why the second son in the parable was not protected. There were many things he could have done to prepare and he did not use the tools God gave him to do so. If anyone was deserving of a miracle it would have been the first son who used all his resources wisely. I'll end with a quote from Chapter 46 of he Aquarian Gospel. IT was a holy day and Jesus walked upon the Athens beach. 2 A storm was on and ships were being tossed about like toys upon the bosom of the sea. 3 The sailors and the fishermen were going down to watery graves; the shores were strewn with bodies of the dead. 4 And Jesus halted not, but with a mighty power he rescued many a helpless one, oft bringing back to life the seeming dead. 5 Now, on these shores were altars sacred to the gods supposed to rule the seas. 6 And men and women, heedless of the cries of drowning men were crowding all about these altars calling on their gods for help. 7 At length the storm was done, and all the sea was calm, and men could think again; and Jesus said, 8 You worshippers of wooden gods, how has the fury of this storm been lessened by your frantic prayers? 9 Where is the strength of these poor, weather-beaten gods with painted swords and crowns? 10 A god that could abide in such a little house could hardly hold a frantic fly, and who could hope that he could hold at bay the Lords of winds and waves? 11 The mighty powers of worlds unseen do not give forth their help till men have done their best; they only help when men can do no more. 12 And you have agonized and prayed around these shrines, and let men sink to death who might have been, by your assistance, saved. 13 The God that saves dwells in your souls, and manifests by making use of your own feet, and legs, and arms, and hands. 14 Strength never comes through idleness; nor through a waiting for another one to bear your loads, or do the work that you are called to do. 15 But when you do your best to bear your loads, and do your work, you offer unto God a sacrifice well- pleasing in his sight. 16 And then the Holy One breathes deep upon your glowing sacrificial coals, and makes them blaze aloft to fill your souls with light, and strength and helpfulness. 17 The most efficient prayer that men can offer to a god of any kind is helpfulness to those in need of help; for what you do for other men the Holy One will do for you. 18 And thus God helps. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5377 From: Marylin Subject: Re: sensitivity Sharon writes: "If i have misunderstood i am more than ready to accept 10 lashes with a wet noodle, at your mercy, in love, sharon" lol Hi Sharon No lashes are necessary. Just wanted to let you know that while empathetic, sympathetic and compassion do go together, there is a slight difference or inference for each word. We can truly sympathize with another when it concerns something we have experienced ourselves. (The death of a spouse) We empathize with another when we understand the subject but have not experienced it. (a broken leg)_ Compassion is the seat of love. The feelings of all three are very close together. It is so easy to confuse ourselves when the English language is the most difficult (so I was taught in school). Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-26/5378 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: OT Song of 144,000 Zia writes: "Which state would I rather have, being kicked by fear or doing it for the love of it?" Wow it is good to see how you expand the topic. Actually this is a view that is very present in my present life. You put it as a state of mind? Well yes, and an attitude. Do I act out of fear? Or do I let fear pass (through emotional release while stating my present inability) and focus on the good, in order to let it grow? That's what worked with my fathering of my daughter. Yet I am conscious that my consciousness is very limited, compared to all that happens in and around me. So I would put it as some kind of a decision. No it is not event that: it simply doesn't work when I try to act out of fear or guilt: the resistance is too big in me, I keep building problems. So yes, you can put it as "Am I afraid of fear?" Do I let this fear push me to action? Or can I stand the fear, and the feelings of inability/humility that lie behind, in order to let them pass and release? Then I can see a new flower of desire and joy bloom. But this is awfully subjective as a point of view:-) BTW, your quote: "I once had a splendid teacher that told me, argue for a limitation and it is yours." I read that in a book of Richard Bach. Did he have the same teacher, or is it him? (discuss the origin of an idea and you won't learn it:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5379 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : OT - [Fwd: [spirit-l] Bhagavad-Gita Online Class @ Glenys Lowery writes: "PPPS Sam-uuuuuuuu!!! Wherefore art thou! I miss you!!! Do I have to come all the way to the other side of the world to plant you in front of your computer!! You are so much a part of this group that I start to have Samu withdrawal symptoms if we don't hear from you for awhile." Yes I had that inner howling about 2 days ago. He must miss us too:-) I felt like emailing him: the list misses you! :-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5380 From: Marylin Subject: Re: A Secure Foundation J J Dewey writes:_ "The voice of the Spirit came unto me and spoke: "Joseph, my young brother, The principles I have taught already have illustrated the importance of preparing for the negative as well as the positive." Message received, understood and appreciated. My foundation needs to be strengthened. Please, JJ, may I have some more supplies? Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5381 From: Marylin Subject: Re: OT - [Fwd: [spirit-l] Bhagavad-Gita Online Class @ Glenys Lowery writes: "If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?" Now........that IS an intelligent question. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5382 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: We'd like to add our voice with everyone else's in calling Samu, and Anni, as well, we miss you both. sending angels, sharon & richard ^I^ ^I^ Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5383 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: facing the negative Thank you, JJ, you have answered many questions. sending you love & light in the physical form as well as the metaphysical, sharon ^I^ ^I^ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/archive.html - (0.08s) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5384_ From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: sensitivity Marylin, thank you for taking the time to respond, i appreciate your kindness. i have put the noodles back on the dinner table. love, Sharon ^I^ ^I^ Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5385 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: DUMB!!!!! Forget previous message re: Disney trip a intelligent friend told me Disney 2 daughters, no sons, sorry for spamming you. Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5386 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: OT Glenys, thanks for plethora (my daughter's favorite word, ) of new sites that should keep me out of trouble for a while. BTW we have all of Ashleigh Brilliant's books, so if they bring the big net after you we'll probably be in there_ as well. love sharon ^I^ ^I^ Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5387 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Positive vs. Negative. I'm having a hard time understanding why people think they are focusing on the negative when they visualize certain parts of the song. What is negative about protection from all destructive forces, thoughts, and feelings? No one is asking you to focus on the negative, just acknowledge it's existence and take necessary steps to prevent it. (Ignoring it is not one of those steps.) There is nothing negative about visualizing a protective light around oneself. When the 1st son built his steel reinforced house, he wasn't focusing on the storm. He simply acknowledged the possibility and took the necessary steps to prevent a disaster. The point is, all you have to do with the song is acknowledge the existence of negative forces, thoughts, and feelings, then visualize the light and love protecting you from such forces. Visualizing protection from those forces is not negative, rather intensely positive. It's a matter of perspective. I hope this helps. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5388 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: I AM SOOOOOOO SORRY, my finger hit the list address while i was apologizing to so many others. i am truly sorry for cluttering the list. sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5389 From: Susi Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? John wrote: "For "to bless" can also be said as "to make happy". And God has made me to be happy, and joyous. Not at the exclusion of possible pain, but even in its experience." I too have this belief system. I differ only in that I feel no one except me can make me happy except maybe God/Source, but since God/Source is within, on, near and around me as all things, ultimately it is I who have made me happy though I still thank God/Source as well as myself for this blessing. Yes I feel I am truly blessed and I wish all things could obtain this state. It comes from a knowing and an unconditional Love and intuition and putting to use all these things that have been talked about on this list and all that will be talked of in the future of this list. I much prefer not to have pain, but oddly enough I remain happy even while it is here. I wonder has anyone else in the last 2 years + experienced a continuous feeling of joy, happiness, fearlessness? I'm reminded of the Song with the words, "sometimes I think it's a sin when I start feeling better when I'm feeling no pain" is it Neil Diamond? Well everything else I get seems to be gravy to me.......I am truly at peace in all dimensions physical and beyond. Another thought that has been coming to me for several days now is this. Those of you who believe in reincarnation what do you have to fear? In book one does it not refer to John saying that some of his deaths have been quite painful......so he too has died and come back into the physical? He has one advantage over most and that is that he remembers all his lives. It has been a long time since I read book 1, and haven't bought book 2 yet but I think I am remembering book one correctly if not I stand to be corrected or better I "petition" to be corrected ;-) "And if it is the Father who has provided all of these "methods", then I'd ask you, what disharmony can be seen in thanking the Father for His protection from any destructive anything? When applied, I'd say that you'll find that your thoughts will harmonize, in amazing ways, to the actual "message" of the song." I really don't think that what Zia said is that she has a problem thanking the Father at all. What she said or what my perception of what she said is that she was experiencing a questioning of the wording around the asking for protection from destructive forces. My view of this is that she has already found within herself God/Source and knows that this protection is in place and no destructive forces will come because she is always protected regardless of asking for it or not. What she was questioning is that if we seek protection from destruction than we feel that destruction can still come into our lives at will without our focusing on it ........and this is not something she believes in because she believes that we create/manifest our own reality or the God in us does. I'm sure you all will correct me if I am wrong and Zia will also if I have interpreted her incorrectly. This is a close mirror of my own beliefs so I may have some blind spots myself. JJ's post on the two sons was just beautiful, but I still feel that almost everyone on the list that is commenting on Zia's post has misinterpreted it. On the one hand the son that said he had no fear was actually in denial of reality and therefore when the hurricane came his hidden fears surfaced and he experienced destruction while the other son who had common sense regarding reality and listened to his intuition regarding possible destructive forces in his physical reality took precautions to protect himself and his family weathered the storm unscathed and with out fear. I do not see him asking God for protection unless he is aware that God also resides within himself, yet he did not have any fear. Correct? Well I do not see Zia or myself as being in denial or out of touch with reality because we choose not to focus on destruction. I do not feel that God would have fear if *IT* (sorry can't seem to make God one specific gender) where in our physical form and stood smack dab in the middle of the storms path. I see the one son as having a knowing and NOT seeking or asking for outside protection while the other believed in destruction as something out of his control and sought/asked for protection from these destructive forces from another outside himself rather than taking the responsibility upon himself. I also did not view Zia's post in anyway a criticism of the Song, instead I viewed it as a questioning of it because those few words mentioned in her original post did not resonate within her. I choose to view her as a bit more evolved than others who feel that they must recite the Song everyday in order to keep the right thoughts. I choose to see the Song as a staple that will always be there to help guide those in need of help to find and or stay in tune with God without/within ;-) Now if we all strictly have to follow the Song then in effect we are becoming followers and can never be equal to or even rise above our teacher. I suspect there are several here who have blind spots regarding this matter. I have been under the belief that for most destinations and maybe in fact all destinations there are many different and individual paths which lead there. Some may take longer than others, some may go round in circles or meander or even go away from the destination at times, but eventually the individual will reach his/her destination. I choose to see my view of those same lines Zia had questions (much nicer word than problems) about as exercising my right to individuality.......not making me better or worse than anybody else just different. I feel this list is a safe place for all of us to express our unique individual ideas/examples on possible ways to reach a common goal of excepting ALL that exists unconditionally and sensing when saying more on a subject is no longer necessary and in fact would be speaking or typing just to hear (glorify) myself insistent upon forcing or making everyone conform to my way of believing or point of view. I feel many have not practiced what the preach here of late but rather than give examples and publicly defame or hurt any individuals feelings I will instead say that you are loved regardless of your opinions of me or anyone else on this list........and I wish you the same continuous happiness and joy that I have found in my life through my unconditional love of you and myself. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5390 From: Susi Subject: Re: Fuzziness Re: teacher "Many times with this group I have stressed that I could be wrong on any point that I present and the only way you will know for sure is through your own inner contacts. I can see why many teachers in the past have not done this - because there is always the danger that those who are in the personality will accuse the teacher of error and disrupt the flow when the teacher may yet be in the soul. Nevertheless, this is a resistance that we must face in the great age that is approaching. It is a small price to pay for the group to receive true soul contact." JJ this is such a good message. Here I sense that the members on this list or maybe even in any large group of this knowledge would be able to discern which of the two were in error and instead of perceiving it as disrupting the flow would meet the challenge and offer their opinions/truths inclusive of the whole and come to a collective, non-judgmental, commitment on a soul level contact as to which was in error and view the whole issue as a learning experience all the while showing unconditional love towards both parties who initiated it and all parties which differed from each individuals ideals. All individuals would receive exactly the information needed to resonate within their own level of knowledge and learning ability giving what they have to offer and receiving what is needed at that particular moment. We would grow as one living breathing entity ;-) All parts being useful. Note: (I wrote this days ago when the post first came out but then put it into my drafts while watching the OT song of the 144,000. I don't know if you can make heads or tails of the above words as even I who wrote them have a hard time following them but there is some kind of a garbled message there that I don't think words really convey accurately. I think maybe what I was saying is, there is no wrong or right just different or in error and an error can be corrected) "They do not tell the disciple he is in error unless he sincerely petitions to know" Petition! They will still love each one of us none-the-less and you will be that much wiser for your petitions. Depending on your soul level listening abilities. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5391 From: Susi Subject: Re: Facing the Negative "The Song must be said unselfishly. It is true that the saying of it brings peace and personal benefits, but this should not be the prime goal. The prime objective should have the whole group in mind. When you see the light and Love and Power manifesting see it manifesting and helping all the group." Please tell me this is not just about this small little group. Please tell me this is a typo and that what you really mean is manifesting and helping All or am I aiming to high, are my goals to lofty? "If this is dome successfully with the same thoughts and words then each individual will receive more spiritual energy than he could possibly give out. But we must be united in thought and word and deed to make this happen. The power we have received from the Song is only a slight foreshadowing of that which is to come if the singing of it is not corrupted." Since words manifest different thoughts for each individual I feel your above statement is stuck in polarity and will never succeed unless you rephrase this to be thoughts.......which often times do not have words that match their expression. We seem to be splitting hairs over words, and ignoring the thoughts all together. I still feel that Zia has the same thoughts just can't fit the words to them so now the list is saying she is in error because she can't bring herself to accomplish the same thoughts as you using the words of the Song. Yet she can obtain the same thoughts by omitting those words..........so what's the big deal? "13 The God that saves dwells in your souls, and manifests by making use of your own feet, and legs, and arms, and hands." "14 Strength never comes through idleness; nor through a waiting for another one to bear your loads, or do the work that you are called to do." "15 But when you do your best to bear your loads, and do your work, you offer unto God a sacrifice well- pleasing in his sight." "16 And then the Holy One breathes deep upon your glowing sacrificial coals, and makes them blaze aloft to fill your souls with light, and strength and helpfulness." Maybe Zia has done her load and maybe the Holy One has given her this sight. Yes it is a difference of opinion but it is not Harming anyone and I wonder why oh why must we as a group try to badger those that believe differently into changing their beliefs to fit ours especially when it is wrapped around the specific meaning or feeling that a word/s protrary? "17 The most efficient prayer that men can offer to a god of any kind is helpfulness to those in need of help; for what you do for other men the Holy One will do for you." "18 And thus God helps." So with the above saying does it mean we are all to recite the exact same prayer? I feel as long as I have soul contact then my prayers while different from that of the Song will still arrive at the same destination and will still achieve the same outcome.........I have this on a Soul Level. Words are words are words are words and for each individual they can mean many different things. If what one person on this list pictures from the words in comparison to another is a completely different image than both while saying the same words will ultimately achieve a different outcome! Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5392 From: Zia Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? Greetings to All, and to you Susi, my words are brief. Thank you for taking the time to look into my heart/soul/spirit/God. You found the truth of me. You also found the truth of my post. For me_ 'actions speak louder than words'. And when those actions follow right on the words, the manifestation is the greatest teacher of all. For your information I sing the Song to unite as one with all on the list and hold them each and everyone in that LIGHT, LOVE, and POWER. It is thus my ability to align with the group. Your post spoke volumes of you, and your courage is a shining example that_ will draw many to your 'healing hearth'. Thank you, my heart too is singing in delight. In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-30/5393 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? Susi wrote: "I feel this list is a safe place for all of us to express our unique individual ideas/examples on possible ways to reach a common goal of excepting ALL that exists unconditionally and sensing when saying more on a subject is no longer necessary and in fact would be speaking or typing just to hear (glorify) myself insistent upon forcing or making everyone conform to my way of believing or point of view." I agree, Susi. Sometimes you just have to let things drop rather than drag them out and keep repeating yourself over and over again, achieving nothing. That's why I declined to comment further on Zia's response to my email. But you must remember that Zia asked us to comment and in most of the emails she's sent on the matter of the Song, she's asked for further comment from the people she's writing to. "I feel many have not practiced what the preach here of late but rather than give examples and publicly defame or hurt any individuals feelings I will instead say that you are loved regardless of your opinions of me or anyone else on this list........and I wish you the same continuous happiness and joy that I have found in my life through my unconditional love of you and myself." As far as I can see, no one has criticised anyone on this list. Some have disagreed with Zia's position on the Song (after she sought feedback) but no one has criticised her personally. If you think otherwise, I think it's only fair that you give us details, if only to help us see the 'error of our ways' so that we do indeed create a safe place here for everybody. Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. - Bill Cosby Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5394 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: OT - [Fwd: [spirit-l] Bhagavad-Gita Online Class @ Glenys wrote: "PPPS Sam-uuuuuuuu!!! Wherefore art thou! I miss you!!! Do I have to come all the way to the other side of the world to plant you in front of your computer!! You are so much a part of this group that I start to have Samu withdrawal symptoms if we don't hear from you for awhile." Dearest Glenys, Diane, Xavier, Sharon & Richard, Everybody :) I'd have nothing against you Glenys traveling to this side of the planet so we could share a few moments, but being planted, no thanks, as my nature is not_ that of the vegetable kingdom :) Just kidding! :) I've missed you guys too, you're right Xavier! Have just been busy, and it has taken all my extra time_ just to keep up with the emails from all of you, great posts, wonderful contributors :) I was out of town for a few days enjoying the Finnish midsummer, nightless night is such a unique beautiful experience... I've still been renovating too and last night I was involved in a 6-hour wallpapering rumba, whew! :) Luckily my summer holiday starts soon, so unless I travel somewhere there's a high possibility I'll be loitering in your email boxes soon again :) But right now, busy-ness awaits! Keep up the great discussion dear All! I too wonder where my Scandinavian Keyster Sister Anni is... Hello Denmark?:) It feels nice to know you are being thought of, so please allow my Big warm embraces in return, Samu :) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5395 From: Zia Subject: Re: Facing the Negative Greetings to All, Susi you've done it again. It is also why I rarely use quotes to justify or prove my position, they usually work well either side of the polarity fence. Perhaps that's the vital lesson of the Principle of Polarity/Duality._ That when we add the adjectives they create the swing from side to side of polarity and hence the distortion or 'fuzziness' of the picture, and without the adjectives we are right on the middle path, with a clear pure picture that goes all the way home to God, point zero, the void, instant creation. It is truly my personal opinion that the song of the 144,000 is a picture whose sound is and can only be A.U.M. sung round the world. This is the sound of God in creation. Thank you for your words that are even and true, well thought out in love and wisdom. I must add that by the last stanza (?) the symbol of Christ/Love on each and everyone on the earth, said with A.U.M. is a profound symbol for our world in my heart. Something I would do everyday irrespective of saying the song or not. And have done so long before the song. In love and laughter, ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5396 From: Susi Subject: Re: To Include or Not To Include "(14) Sensitivity. Now we are not talking about the politically sensitive geek here that is ashamed of the Washington Redskins, but we are talking about one who is sensitive to many things that others are not." "Among them are:" "(1) Ability to tune into the feelings and sometimes thoughts of others." "(2) Ability to sense higher contacts" "(3) Ability to sense the direction of the Path." "If you can "sense" other areas of positive sensitivity name them and elaborate. Why is sensitivity such an important quality for the disciple to possess?" First I will attempt to answer why it is so important to possess this quality although possessing it is only half full, one must also have the wisdom to utilize it to be full. Taking example 1 into consideration and looking back at all the recent posts I would have to say that with out this ability we would forever be stuck analyzing WORDS rather than sensing the feelings or thoughts of the other individual who might not even speak the same language;-) This ability is also important so that we are able to make necessary adjustments in our environment by adding or deleting clothing etc depending on the whims of Mother Nature. The ability to sense "smell" rain or wind or danger and act accordingly, take counter actions to protect that which needs protecting. It is important to sense when a sign/event is a message and not just a sign/event or vise versa this way one does not read too much into a situation or not enough. Ok another sense I feel is very important. The ability to communicate with animals through senses since words are generally unspoken by most animals. Example: I recently got my first horse a 4 year old Arabian Gelding that had never been rode. His mane was matted and though he is an attention monger he refused to let anyone ride him......he was labeled as difficult. I saw him 9 months ago and while leading him around he was fine but still no one could ride him or catch him if he didn't want to be caught this was the last time I saw him till 14 days ago. While still on the lead I turned my back to him and talked with the owners at which time he came up from behind and rested his chin on my shoulder then blew puffs in my ear.........needless to say I was sold......but I had no money and no corral. Over these last 9 months I have manifested the money, the corral and now TAZ (his name) into my immediate reality. The first day Taz was dropped off I sensed he remembered me even though we had only met once 9 months prior. After the owners left I briefly worked with him and talked (whinnied, grunted, snorted) to him and telepathically sent messages to help calm him. I then groomed him which alone took 2 hours, his mane was a rats nest. I then stood before him and blew puffs in his nostrils and let him smell me. I remembered I told him I would be back for him after looking in his eyes for quite some time and running my hands down each side of his face to the outside of his velvet soft nostril skin. I SENSED he knew me and trusted me. Ok you ask what does all this have to do with senses.......well the same day I got him I and my husband were on him bare back with out so much as a hop from him. I sensed his uneasiness and worked with him to help him overcome his fear. I have since had all three of my young boys on him have put a bridle on him and saddle and gone a 2.5 mile Montana mountain trail ride with out any incidence. He has spooked at new and unusual sights like running creaks he needed to cross and my dog running out of the forest to startle him but never bucked. I have sensed his uneasiness to these new sight prior to his spooking and comforted him in advance therefore avoiding something seriously dangerous happening to him or me. One more thing, he got off his lead the other day while grazing and ran up the mountain. I went out side and hiked up the mountain nearby him.....he smelled me and I called him and he came running back. He too senses that I am a friend not an enemy so words sometimes can be replaced by sensing and using ones thoughts to telepathically communicate. I hope you have enjoyed my story as much as I have enjoyed experiencing it. BTW I labeled him as spirited which I refused to break, and took away the difficult label the first day I met him 9 months ago. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5397 From: James Bryan Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Greetings all, I just reviewed this site again and found this dissertation on Universal Energy to be quite energizing and possibly relevant to this topic that started to be Off Topic. I think you may find it interesting also. Enjoy!!! http://www.ozemail.com.au/~carolinm/Enkodham3.htm Light, Love and Power One for All and All for One! TwinStorms AKA James Bryan Get all your Computer Supplies online. http://www.handtech.com/tcweb/TwinStorms Check out the site and sign in. bryan182@bellatlantic.net http://members.xoom.com/TwinStorms/ http://ecode.com/?TwinStorms ICQ 11179055 ============= "You are here to learn how to choose, and to choose how to learn." --Michael =============== Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5398 From: Susi Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? "Your post spoke volumes of you, and your courage is a shining example that will draw many to your 'healing hearth'. Thank you, my heart too is singing in delight. In love and laughter, ZIA" Thank you Zia your posts have allowed me to express a few of my ideals. It is not my goal to attract people to my Healing Hearth but I do include it out of common sense in all my closings. I wanted to add here that you have opened my eyes by stating that even though you have some questions about the Song of the 144,000 you still say/sing it everyday for the benefit of all. I too will start this because thought is so powerful and now that we have had all this discussion regarding the Song much light has been shed on it. Please continue posting (not that were going to stop) , you have much wisdom, especially for one who states that she is just beginning to learn the art of expressing her self publicly. I would like to extend an open call to all the people on this list........please share your knowledge and wisdom, even if the words don't seem to fit many amazing things can happen by opening up discussions. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5399 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? Glenys Lowery wrote: "I feel this list is a safe place for all of us to express our unique individual ideas/examples on possible ways to reach a common goal of excepting ALL that exists unconditionally and sensing when saying more on a subject is no longer necessary and in fact would be speaking or typing just to hear (glorify) myself insistent upon forcing or making everyone conform to my way of believing or point of view." "I agree, Susi. Sometimes you just have to let things drop rather than drag them out and keep repeating yourself over and over again, achieving nothing. That's why I declined to comment further on Zia's response to my email." "But you must remember that Zia asked us to comment and in most of the emails she's sent on the matter of the Song, she's asked for further comment from the people she's writing to." "I feel many have not practiced what the preach here of late but rather than give examples and publicly defame or hurt any individuals feelings I will instead say that you are loved regardless of your opinions of me or anyone else on this list........and I wish you the same continuous happiness and joy that I have found in my life through my unconditional love of you and myself." "As far as I can see, no one has criticised anyone on this list. Some have disagreed with Zia's position on the Song (after she sought feedback) but no one has criticised her personally." "If you think otherwise, I think it's only fair that you give us details, if only to help us see the 'error of our ways' so that we do indeed create a safe place here for everybody. Love Glenys" I think that however Zia feels about the wording of the song it's from her own unique perspective and something that only she is able to deal with. I don't think that anyone has been critical of her, as Glenys has said, Zia did ask our feedback. From my own perspective, I have not now nor did I in the beginning of the Song, have any difficulties over the wording. It lifts me to another level and the wording of it rings with truth to my soul. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5400 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: To Include or Not To Include Susi wrote: "Ok another sense I feel is very important. The ability to communicate with animals through senses since words are generally unspoken by most animals." Thank you so much Susi for sharing this beautiful example of sensing. I communicate with animals too but I use images in my mind. I also use words but mainly images. I love horses and had a couple as a kid. I've had birds and dogs and cats for the most part though since that time. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5401 From: "xavier" Subject: fear (small quote) "courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear. Not absence of fear" Mark Twain See how he searches for the right word. ("resistance, mastery") Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5402 From: Zia Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 Greetings to All, Thank you for this 'enlightening' post said in such an inspiring way. In Hawaii of not too long ago, the wise old Kahuna's in teaching their children about creating, gave as a game to children to make clouds disappear and reappear etc. Children would delight in this game, practising the simple art of manifestation. Since it rains nearly everyday in Hawaii, many are the opportunities. Living in the wet state of Washington I just love to still practise this game, of going into focus, and coming out to find the sun shining and the rain gone away. It may not stay away long, but I just love the fun of going a few miles down the road, to find the rest of my town in rain. Laughter over such a simple thing. It is also so wonderful to see the application of science to what was in the past often not understood from a metaphysical description. It is splendid that science and spirit are becoming one, in our awareness. Also reminds me of the old time pendulum clocks, and a roomful of them, and set one swinging, and within very little time, they are all swinging together, in harmony. Definitely have to choose your room! In love and laughter, ZIA ps Susi will understand when I say it is my desire to learn in love and laughter as well... wonderful quote James, my favorite word CHOICE "You are here to learn how to choose, and to choose how to learn." --Michael Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5403 From: John Kosior Subject: Twain's The Man! "Xavier wrote: "courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear._ Not absence of fear"_ MArk Twain "See how he searches for the right word. ("resistance, mastery")" Hi Folks, Firstly, let me say that I am NOT commenting on ANYBODY'S post, except THIS one. :) You won't get me near that slippery slope. :)))) On THIS post, however, I will say that having mastery "within" Fear is what is called for. Just the same as having mastery "within" Love. So, to join with my new found hero, (Mark T) here's a quote from me. :) "It takes both sides of the battery if you wanna get the juice". Words can be fun, but too many words can really be a :o) Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5404 From: Rick Audette Subject: fear? Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5405 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: OT Song of 144,000 still OT?? "I'm reminded of the Song with the words, "sometimes I think it's a sin when I start feeling better when I'm feeling no pain" is it Neil Diamond? " Nope, it's Gordon Lightfoot. BTW, if you've ever wondered what I sound like, my singing voice sounds much like GL's. Moonchild -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Loving you's been so much fun, I hope I see you some day Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5406 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Fuzziness Re: teacher_ "All individuals would receive exactly the information needed to resonate within their own level of knowledge and learning ability giving what they have to offer and receiving what is needed at that particular moment. We would grow as one living breathing entity ;-) All parts being useful." Wow Susi, You sure have a nice way with words. Makes this list feel even better than it was a few minutes ago. I have visions of this list becoming quiet a mind blower and the visions are becoming manifest. Big thanks to all my brothers and sisters. Love, Rick -- ICQ 19753992 visit my web pages at http://www.ont.com/users/rea1/ have you read "The Immortal" http://www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-06-29/5407 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Facing the Negative "Wor