1999 - WEEK 20 Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4449 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Star Wars J J Dewey wrote: "Postings have been few lately. I hope I'm not putting you to sleep out there." Nope. Still here and wide awake, JJ "Perhaps a temporary change in direction will add some stimulus. Every time I turn on the television the past few days I find talk of Star Wars permeating everything. Now finally we are approaching the big opening. Here in Boise it is midnight tomorrow" We have to wait until midnight on 10 June although it's commonly accepted that 'normal' people who haven't stood in long queues for ticket pre-sales will have to wait for several weeks after that to get in. I loved the Star Wars Trilogy and saw the movies several times. For awhile I used to sign myself on emails to friends as Yoda (although I'm slightly better looking than him - on a good day) until a graphic artist friend got hold of a photo of me and turned me into the little Master. I was almost going to send it to Samu for his pix page but chickened out :-) "Earlier we mentioned that George Lucas was indeed an initiate. However making a movie alone does not mean a person is a disciple. Lucas is an initiate because he has created positive change that has effected most of the world. Name three things that he has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius." The concept of service for the common good that leads to increased freedom and light for all, instead of service for service's sake. The control of blind emotion in favour of reason and sound judgment. The acceptance of initiation as a way to unity with the soul and true fulfillment. Love Yoda -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4450 From: Sharri Lorraine Subject: Star Wars J J Dewey wrote: [...................] "Earlier we mentioned that George Lucas was indeed an initiate. However making a movie alone does not mean a person is a disciple. Lucas is an initiate because he has created positive change that has effected most of the world." "Name three things that he has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius." On another List that I'm on, someone announced that George Lucas belonged to the Dark Brothers. At the time, I thought: "Look in the Mirror." I agree with you JJ that George Lucas has shown a Bright Light in this World. 1. "May the Force be with you." 2. He's shown to Honor the Differences. To disregard the way a person looks, but to look into their Heart and find the Go(o)d there. 3. That we all must Search our Self & get in touch with Who we Are at the Core, then we can Trust our Self & Know that if we do our Best that Good Will Prevail. {\@/} / \ _\|/_ ~*~%~*~%~*~ JOY & Illumination & Laughter-Bubbles! :) :) Sharri Lorraine Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4451 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V JJ writes: "Readers are welcome to distribute this series of articles on reincarnation as long as they give them away free either in digital form or hard copy and mention that it is copyright by J J Dewey." Thanks, JJ, for allowing us to share this reincarnation series. My sister is "computer free" so all must go to her in hard copy. My girl friend in Iowa is also most interested so I can forward your posts to her. She has been into the Cayce teachings since the 60s and finds it hard to relate to other things, but this series is of particular interest to her as both she and her late husband had the same memory dream that we were able to find a record of in history. I am delighted to learn where, in the bible, the proofs are. I am also learning a great deal more that I had not learned before. I, for one, do not find it boring. It's a part of recovering memory. Marylin Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4452 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Star Wars JJ writes: "Name three things that he has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius." I have to admit that Star Wars has never done much for me and the only thing that I have read about it was in the Time Magazine most specifically the article about George Lucas. I got the "feeling" that he possibly knows more than he said in the interview. I believe that such movies will have an influence on people beginning to ask questions...what if, etc. that are the first step to personal searching for truth. It seems that all know there is something better even if they think it is just a movie. At least they begin to wish. From there...it's the universe. I resonate more with "Official Denial" that is not shown much any more and it is most hard to get a vcr tape anymore. Also "Contact". I just don't care for so much fighting in Star Wars, but then, I wonder if it may be a representation of the wars we fight within ourselves to make the decision between negative and positive. Marylin Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4453 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Star Wars J J Dewey wrote: "Postings have been few lately. I hope I'm not putting you to sleep out there." Good Morning Folks, Putting us to sleep, JJ? Oh, quite the opposite! Asleep is a condition many of us would consider ourselves to be coming out of. I think there are times in our awakening here on earth that we spend some time stretching and yawning, filling ourselves with oxygen, just like in the morning when one might stretch the body. At that point the mind knows that it is awake, but also knows that the body hasn't fully recognized that fact. I surmise that these "quiet" periods that we experience on the list have more to do with people awaiting the permeating of new truth into their whole body. (Hard to type with the fingers of a hand which hasn't woken up) :) "Name three things that he [George Lucas] has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius." Just three? But there are so many. :) Yes, I'm a big fan of the Star Wars movies. But if it's three you want, it's three you'll get. Now, to decide which three. 1) The Dark Cave In the Empire Strikes Back, Luke is directed by his teacher Yoda to enter a cave to meet his next lesson. While in the cave, Luke confronts an image of Darth Vader (Luke's own greatest fear). He engages Vader in battle and uses the lower energy of fear, rage, hatred, etc., and cuts off the head of the dark one, only to find that it was himself that he slew. The idea here is that if we use fear to confront fear, it's ourselves that we will slay. 2) The First Confrontation Later in the same movie, Luke has opportunity to fight the real Vader. Here he uses all the techniques that he has learned from his teachers (Yoda, Obi Wan). But still he does not prevail. Instead he's given a truth that Vader is in fact his own father. Here the lesson is that technique and personal ability alone cannot defeat darkness, but knowledge of the Truth, no matter how difficult, will produce in us the ability to overcome the darkness from where we've come. 3) The Final Confrontation In Return Of The Jedi, another battle ensues between Luke and Vader. But this time Luke has a new mission in mind. This time, rather than using his power to destroy Vader, he desires to restore Vader to the right path. In this battle, Luke prevails over Vader but instead of destroying him, he shows him compassion and mercy which is the only "force" which can prevail over darkness and fear. Interestingly, as I wrote each of the examples above, I kept remembering corresponding scriptures which supported the same themes. Man! It really feels good to know that real Truth is hidden everywhere in plain sight. Light and Love, Mercy and Compassion To You All! Oh yeah, And May The Force Be With You, :o) John Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4454 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V J J Dewey wrote: "Samu. Glad you are enjoying this series." Ok, I responded to this once already, but my browser crashed as I was about to send it. So here we go again. Samu is most certainly not the only one, JJ. I too can hardly tell you how enlightening and inspiring this series has been for me. But I will tell you that my position on reincarnation is that I have seen very many people spending a great deal of energy trying to find out who or what they were in past lives. So much so, that they have neglected much of what there present life is all about. I instead choose to set the past behind me (Paul's word), and worry not what the future holds (Jesus' word). That leaves this "today" open to very clear action. Still it's good to know the underlying methods of God, and that by everlasting mercy, God has made a way for all of us to overcome. Wishing You All A Wonderful "Today", John Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4455 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Star Wars Glenys writes: "For awhile I used to sign myself on emails to friends as Yoda (although I'm slightly better looking than him - on a good day) until a graphic artist friend got hold of a photo of me and turned me into the little Master. I was almost going to send it to Samu for his pix page but chickened out :-)" Hey hey hey Glenys!!! :D Now that the cat's out of the bag, or should I say Yoda's out of hers (heh:) cave, feel free to forget about them chickens, grab your laser saber of Light and reveal your true identity to us!!! :D I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd *love* to see this pic... Are you regretting that you mentioned this pic now? :D Maybe this is what the last quotation JJ asked our opinion on was about... As soon as you mention something inside of this network of Light that connects us all, the whole truth about it is gonna be pulled in the open! Well dear Glenys if you change your mind about sharing the pic, you know my e address :) All of you people who have a chance to see Phantom Menace in the near weeks, I'm jealous :) Not sure if it's the same all over Europe, but here in the backland's of the Euro-continent, the new Star Wars movie isn't premiering until august. Now where's the fun and fairness in that?? :) Well I count on the Force that it's still as powerful when it hits the shores of our Fine Scandinavian land... Have really enjoyed reading your posts on Lucas's saga, and all the main points I had in mind have already been mentioned, so I practice the golden silence on this one :) John, great analysis on those 3 scenes! :) May the Force be with you, indeed, always One on the Light side, Samu Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4456 From: Jennifer Hardin Subject: RE: VERY OT but please pass on This is a HOAX. Sorry guys. We even contacted the police in the city listed and they confirmed it was a hoax. Love ya ! Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4457 From: Richard/Sharon Subject: hoax Jennifer, thank you, this will teach me to be more careful with what I pass on. i appreciate you doing the homework i should have done. have a blessed and beautiful week. sharon Post No Keys-05-17-1999/4458 From: Zia Subject: Re: Star Wars Greetings to All, JJ says: "Name three things that he has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius." You guys on the eastern US get up earlier, read and post before we are up on the western coast of US!! Hence a lot is already said, and need not be repeated. Loved your overall synopsis John K, beautifully put. At a more basic level, teaching Luke to trust the power of his mind, to create what he desired to occur, and to learn that 'any' reaction would cancel out that power, and he would no longer be able to create was a wonderful basic teaching. Also to be able to stand when taunted and provoked and not react even in the heat of the battle, is so much a requirement today for all of us. I found I never could watch warring movies, for so long, until I realised it was simply the outpicturing of the warring in my mind, and how else could it be pictured? Our emotional reactions are destructive, not only to other bodies, but our own, and therefore this violence is a true picture. We react and don't want to see this because we don't want to be reminded of ourself. Denial is a flimsy protection. Truth shining us in the face, allows us to look on it ultimately and laugh at truly the sandbox games we used to play in our minds. A great challenge also these days is to truly love our parents even when they may not agree with us, or have not opened to any level of truth and light in their lives. The power of authority from our parents is overcome so beautifully in Luke's ultimately trusting in love and compassion and we get to see the power of mercy and truly of love. Also the acceptance of 'teachers' portrayed come in different shapes and forms to Luke and also to us, not normally visible to most, and yet so lovable and so profound in their teaching and demonstrations. Also their profound patience in us is wonderful too. Longevity was also portrayed through these great beings as well as many other truths now so relevant and also understood in this 'Aquarian Age'. The symbols in the movies were excellent as well, the swords being wielded being each one's sword of truth cutting away the illusions as they do battle. So many powerful symbols that we take for granted, and yet trigger memories in us. These movies are great awakeners especially to the young ones, providing an identity and role models wonderful for parents to access and use to guide young minds. There is also a wonderful 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' (Laurence Gardner) reference with Luke and his 'unknown' sister Princess Leah and their 'knowing' of each other, even before learning the truth, and their profound connection in consciousness. Also Solo was a wonderful portrayal of the days of King Arthur and Solo seemed like Sir Lancelot, thus reviving many forgotten memories for some. And in this case 'Lancelot' gets to keep the Princess with a happy ending. I salute so many brilliant minds, creating such powerful compelling stories that inspire us all. ZIA Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4459 From: Zia Subject: Re: Star Wars Greetings to All, Oh forgot one important aspect, was the wonderful fur bears that represented a species that seemed rather powerless and insignificant, but there love and trust and assistance turned the tide of the war. They thought that the robots were Gods, but in being accepted and their own acceptance then of Princess Leah, and Luke Skywalker with his 'magnificent powers' allowed them to all drive out the 'enemy'. The power of the meek and mild and ingenuity were wonderful too. ZIA Post No. Keys-05-17-1999/4460 From: Zia Subject: Correction Greetings to all, Bloodline of the Holy Grail is by Laurence Gardner, and Holy Blood, Holy Grail is by M. Baigent, R. Leigh and H. Lincoln. Forgive me. ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4461 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: The Bride of Yoda - OT Samu Karlsson wrote: "Hey hey hey Glenys!!! :D" Hey, hey, hey, yourself, Samu, Jedi Knight! "Now that the cat's out of the bag, or should I say Yoda's out of hers (heh:) cave, feel free to forget about them chickens, grab your laser saber of Light and reveal your true identity to us!!! :D I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd *love* to see this pic... Are you regretting that you mentioned this pic now? :D" Yes, a feeling of dread is slowly filling my being, like rising damp. "Maybe this is what the last quotation JJ asked our opinion on was about.. As soon as you mention something inside of this network of Light that connects us all, the whole truth about it is gonna be pulled in the open! Well dear Glenys if you change your mind about sharing the pic, you know my e address :)" I'm sure he didn't mean that, O Incorrigible One! But I will make the ultimate sacrifice and send you the photo because I believe it's time the truth about Yoda came out. You see, he didn't pass on because it was time to meet his Maker. The real truth is that he had many years of productive and happy life ahead of him. He actually loved living in that dirty old swamp, not washing and eating erratically and the last thing he wanted was someone to 'organise' him. But George Lucas thought differently and decreed that he needed a wife. So he sent him the 'reconstituted' photo of me in all my Yoda-ish glory, adding that I was on my way to make a man of him. I was actually the forerunner of the first mail order bride, although it was George who did the ordering on behalf of the little Master. Well, the old boy couldn't take the prospect of living in orderly domesticity and decided to quietly slip away in order to avoid his fate. It has never been publicised and the true circumstances surrounding his death were fudged in the movie. George knew that the public would never accept that Yoda was capable of such a cowardly act. He also knew it would be stretching people's credibility to expect them to believe that Yoda could turn down the offer of such a Stupendous Beauty. But the love of the Bride of Yoda is true and she has dedicated her life to waiting for her soul mate to return to her loving arms. Her cheesy grin belies her broken heart and the deep yearning of her soul that permeates her being. But she knows he will return and in the meantime, has sold her tragic, heartbreaking story to Mills and Boon (well, a Yoddess has got to live!) Thank you, Samu, Jedi Knight, for giving the Bride of Yoda the opportunity to tell her sad, tragic story. Hopefully, it's telling will serve to stir Yoda's heart into fulfilling his true destiny and the two lovers will be reunited sometime soon and live happily ever after. And that little story, dear Samu, is your punishment for asking about the pix. Your second punishment is that I've sent it to you. I suggest you take your Prozac before opening it! :-) With love The Bride of Yoda -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Where there is unity there is always victory. - Publilius Syrus Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4462 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-05-17 of The Keys of Knowledge List Hello again, Two things that came to mind.... 1. JJ wrote:- When Jesus comes again the ancient Jews reborn will definitely recognize Him for who He is. They will also see their blindness in their current lives, but it is also quite possible that their memory of their past lives in the days of Jesus will return to them so they can feel the enormity of their shame. After two thousand years they will realize they killed their Savior. etc. My question:- If, as Jesus said "I am the way" "No man comes to the Father but by me" (or something like that!), does that mean that the Jews who do not recognize Jesus as the Christ have no way to God? If this deduction is right then they certainly are suffering, but not necessarily for the reasons they think. 2. On another topic - that of sending love and light, which energy can be misused by some recipients - I have talked with a friend/teacher who pointed out that it is best to 'emit' love rather than to send it to another if you think it might be misused. He asked the question "Would you rather be loved by someone or sent love by someone?" By emitting love (being love), you raise the energy level of those around you, and this in turn affects those around them and so on in a ripple effect. Love, Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4463 From: Bev Salzman Subject: Fwd: Reincarnation Part V- and questions J J Dewey writes: "Pro. 25:2 Imagine. God actually conceals things from us so when His secrets are revealed it will add to His glory. Jesus said: "For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known." Luke 12:2 Isaiah prophesied: "The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:9 Daniel said that at the time of the end "knowledge shall be increased." Dan. Dear ones, Is, it for you? Do as I say, and as I have seen the word better than you. Do not as I do? As you well know, do you believe? Why do you hide behind societies laws? Is not ALL knowledge to be given light and to be given to ALL. Do you see the rest of the world as you are looking at yourself? Are you separate from, or one with all? Re-member, you are also a child. Watch how you play the game. BJ INTERESTING SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE Samu. Glad you are enjoying this series. Indeed, you would think that the religious ones out there would be happy to discover such a liberating doctrine as this in the Bible. Instead they get angry and fearful when presented with some of these scriptures. Readers are welcome to distribute this series of articles on reincarnation as long as they give them away free either in digital form or hard copy and mention that it is copyright by J J Dewey. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4464 From: Bev Salzman Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V JJ Dewey writes: "The great Solomon wrote: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing." Indeed, is it? It is. BJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4465 From: Bev Salzman Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V-copyright JJ Dewey writes: "mention that it is copyright by J J Dewey." What do the scriptures say about copyright? What do the scriptures say about sound and light travel? What is language? What is telepathy? bJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-17/4466 From: "Zia" Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-05-17 of The Keys of Knowledge List Greetings to all, Jennifer says: "2. On another topic - that of sending love and light, which energy can be misused by some recipients - I have talked with a friend/teacher who pointed out that it is best to 'emit' love rather than to send it to another if you think it might be misused. He asked the question "Would you rather be loved by someone or sent love by someone?" By emitting love (being love), you raise the energy level of those around you, and this in turn affects those around them and so on in a ripple effect." Thank you Jennifer, I understand your teacher, and would put it this way, 'love is a state of mind' and I cannot separate love to send it, only my state of mind expanding is the love 'received' in a sense by another. Emit, radiate, encompassed by love, so that person also is expanded by love (uplifted in their state of mind). Love to me is an unsplit energy. It not only expands, but seems to cause a duplication effect. Like all pendulums swinging together in a room, love permeates and causes itself to mirror itself. ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4467 From: J J Dewey Subject: Star Wars II Question: Name three things that George Lucas has initiated through Star Wars that brings us closer to the consciousness of the Age of Aquarius. We received some great response on this, but John gets a gold star here for being especially insightful. He came up with several things I never thought of. We live in an interesting age, an age where the disciples of the brotherhood often work unnoticed and unrecognized. Many of them such as Lucas are not fully aware of their mission. They just follow the inner voice and, if done successfully a great work is initiated. Someone said they heard that Lucas was on the dark side. I would like to know the reasoning behind that. I do know that some fundamentalists see the devil under every rock and I am sure some of them could find evil in Star Wars. Fortunately the teachings in Star Wars has been so well blended with the thinking of the masses that it would take a fanatic to see negativity in it. As I see it here are the three most powerful and direct teachings from Star Wars that is altering the consciousness of humanity and preparing them for the new age. (1) The Force. Lucas admitted in an interview that the Force is another name for God. But the Force is not a being sitting on a throne, but a universal energy that pervades all things. This prepares the minds of many to see an aspect of God in a different light and to look for it within ourselves. (2) The Masters/Teachers. In Star wars you have the idea of Masters presented who have superhuman abilities because they applied themselves over a long period of time. Such persons as Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi are inspiring teachers who use the power of the Force (God) toward miraculous ends. When the minds of the race are fully prepared we will have real masters walk among us who are as wise, powerful and old as Yoda. (3) The Light and Dark Brotherhoods. The Jedi Knights and the teachers represent the Brotherhood of Light and the Emperor, Darth Vader and their bunch represent the Dark Brothers. Because these two brotherhoods do exist, and are a part of our reality, it is important that we know about them and understand the differences between the two. There will come a time in the life of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4468 From: "Heidi Walcutt" Subject: Re: Star Wars II I know that I've not posted much recently, but due to work schedules (working graveyard shift) I find I don't have much time to read all the posts let alone reply much of the time. I know this is probably a dead or dying subject but I just wanted to interject an opinion that was shared w/me when Empire Strikes Back was first released. Remember when Luke landed on Dagobah and was inn training with Yoda, and his ship sank in the swamp? Yoda advised Luke he had the power to raise the ship, and Luke argued with him that it was too big. Yoda said that size does not matter, with the Force all things are possible. Luke said "Ok, I'll try." To which Yoda replied "No!! Do, or Do not, there is no try..." Then Luke tried and fails, Yoda steps up and raises the ship from the swamp and moves it to dry land. Luke looks at Yoda in surprise and says "I don't believe it", "That is why you fail" is Yoda's sage response. Something that I've learned the hard way over the last several years is that if you don't believe you can, or don't just go ahead and do, you will never accomplish anything, whether in the physical or spiritual realms. Just a comment from the peanut gallery :) Peace and Love, Heidi Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4469 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Star Wars II JJ Dewey writes: "There will come a time in the life of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice." But haven't we who have already made a choice to follow Jesus/Light Brothers with an ongoing commitment progressed? Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4470 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Star Wars II Heidi Walcutt wrote: "Remember when Luke landed on Dagobah and was in training with Yoda, and his ship sank in the swamp? Yoda advised Luke he had the power to raise the ship, and Luke argued with him that it was too big. Yoda said that size does not matter, with the Force all things are possible. Luke said "Ok, I'll try." To which Yoda replied "No!! Do, or Do not, there is no try..." Then Luke tried and fails, Yoda steps up and raises the ship from the swamp and moves it to dry land. Luke looks at Yoda in surprise and says "I don't believe it", "That is why you fail" is Yoda's sage response. Something that I've learned the hard way over the last several years is that if you don't believe you can, or don't just go ahead and do, you will never accomplish anything, whether in the physical or spiritual realms. Just a comment from the peanut gallery :)" A good point, Heidi. It's taken me most of my life to learn that belief in an external agency, be it God, Spirit, the Force etc is easy. But that alone is insufficient to achieve mastery. What is required is belief in oneself and once that happens, all else follows. I think it's the hardest lesson of all. I hope you get off the graveyard shift soon, Heidi, so you can post more often. I was only just reading an hour or so ago where that phrase originated and thought you might be interested. In the 1500's, England was old and small and they started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up coffins and take the bones to a house and re-use the grave. In reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their wrist and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night to listen for the bell. Hence on the "graveyard shift" they would know that someone was "saved by the bell" or he was a "dead ringer". So listen out for ringing bells while you're working, Heidi :-) Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of scripture are not enough. When you have realized understanding, even one word is too much. - Fen-Yang Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4471 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V Bev Salzman wrote: "J J Dewey writes: "The great Solomon wrote: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing." "Indeed, is it? It is." Hi BJ, Sorry, but I seem to have missed the meaning and/or context that you intended in your posts. On this scripture reference, I must repeat that I am not a real big fan of quotations of "half" of a verse. The full reference goes like this: Prov 25:2 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings. (NIV) I think, especially in proverbs that the meaning and value of the reference can be lost with it's yang left off of it's yin. Just a thought. John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4472 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Star Wars II J J Dewey writes: "Because these two brotherhoods do exist, and are a part of our reality, it is important that we know about them and understand the differences between the two. There will come a time in the life of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice." Really? I know you mean it, but it puzzles me. Didn't we make the choice? I don't mean we keysters, I mean we who feel love and trust and hope? And encompassing love? I fell like I played the evil path already, and fell by it, and came back. I wonder how I could believe in it again. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4473 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Fwd: Reincarnation Part V- and questions Bev Salzman wrote: "Dear ones, Is, it for you? Do as I say, and as I have seen the word better than you. Do not as I do? As you well know, do you believe? Why do you hide behind societies laws? Is not ALL knowledge to be given light and to be given to ALL. Do you see the rest of the world as you are looking at yourself? Are you separate from, or one with all? Re-member, you are also a child. Watch how you play the game." BJ, Once again, I would be more than happy to engage your questions if I understood what it was you were asking. Or perhaps you questions here are rhetorical, carrying with them your meaning with no need of response. Hmmm. Maybe you can let me know. Then I or one of the others here will be able to introduce some balance to this theme. Expound! By all means, expound. Ever helpful, (when I can) John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4474 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Re : Star Wars II xavier wrote: "There will come a time in the life of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice." "Really? I know you mean it, but it puzzles me. Didn't we make the choice? I don't mean we keysters, I mean we who feel love and trust and hope? And encompassing love? I fell like I played the evil path already, and fell by it, and came back. I wonder how I could believe in it again." Hey There Xavier! I'm always happy when I see your name on a post. I won't try to answer for JJ here. This is all me. :) To stick with the Star Wars theme, it was true that Luke had clearly chosen the light when it came to the force. But still there were challenges. In fact there were "levels" of the dark side which still had designs on swaying him over to the darkness. I'm quite sure that you and I have "played the evil path" and being shaken to the core by it, we chose to come back to the path of light. But to think that this was the only, or the last time we would be confronted by the darkness in their effort to thwart God's purpose would be unwise. I know that I for one have yet to step from mortality to immortality, though I know I'm on that path. But I will never let my guard down. I have seen in my heart that there are levels of darkness that are so subtle, and so deceptive that if I were to bop along thinking that nothing could touch me, I might fall into yet another illusion for which I had no defense in myself. On the other hand, I also know that there are those who are the messengers of God who stand in my defense against the themes of the dark ones which I do not understand. This is as it should be, for I can see that the "game" ain't over yet. Thank God! Happiness Abounds When The Brotherhood Share, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4475 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: The Bride of Yoda - OT Glenys writes: "And that little story, dear Samu, is your punishment for asking about the pix. Your second punishment is that I've sent it to you. I suggest you take your Prozac before opening it! :-)" No prozac for me thanks, but the story did touch my heart, dearest Glenys, I mean Yodette, oops Yoddess that is :) Ahhh the heartache of lovers fa apart... But I am sure Yoda will feel something in the Force after this letter of yours was sent in the cyber space, and your destiny awaits to be fulfilled... :) Btw, our idea of punishment does indeed differ, I am glad to pay the penalty, and choose to share this sentence with All Folks... .) http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.htmlYodaGlenys Thanks Glenys, for showing us the Light on this!!! :D Force-fully yours, Samu chasethedogstarovertheseahomewheremytrueloveiswaitingformeropethesouthwind Samu Karlsson samu3@dlc.fi samu.karlsson@norpe.fi http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3 "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" canvasthestarsharnessthemoonlightsoshecansafelygoroundthecapehorntovalparaiso Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4476 From: John Kosior Subject: Three Cheers For The Bride of Yoda - OT "Thanks Glenys, for showing us the Light on this!!! :D" Most definitely, add my thanks here too. :) There's something magical about humor and this is certainly one that fits the bill. Funny Stuff! John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4477 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Reincarnation Part V John Kosior writes: 'yang left off of it's yin. Just a thought." You just hit my funny bone. ROFL Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4478 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: Yoda Glenys, thank you for sharing, i would say something about your courage, but your beauty and your light shine through so clearly you could win a cosmic beauty pagent. love, sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4479 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Re: Re : Star Wars II xavier writes: "Really? I know you mean it, but it puzzles me. Didn't we make the choice? I don't mean we keysters, I mean we who feel love and trust and hope? And encompassing love? I fell like I played the evil path already, and fell by it, and came back. I wonder how I could believe in it again." I think there is more to that decision than just saying, "I choose the Light". I've told myself that 100 times. While I can't imagine myself ever choosing the Dark side, I'm also aware that I haven't faced all of the challenges I'm required to face in order to ultimately choose the light. There's more to it than love, trust, and hope. Remember, while those things are wonderful things, they can also be used as tools by the Dark Brotherhood. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4480 From: Paul Yu Subject: Re: Re : Star Wars II John K wrote: "xavier wrote: "There will come a time in the life of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice." "Really? I know you mean it, but it puzzles me. Didn't we make the choice? I don't mean we keysters, I mean we who feel love and trust and hope? And encompassing love? I fell like I played the evil path already, and fell by it, and came back. I wonder how I could believe in it again." "Hey There Xavier! I'm always happy when I see your name on a post. I won't try to answer for JJ here. This is all me. :) To stick with the Star Wars theme, it was true that Luke had clearly chosen the light when it came to the force. But still there were challenges. In fact there were "levels" of the dark side which still had designs on swaying him over to the darkness. I'm quite sure that you and I have "played the evil path" and being shaken to the core by it, we chose to come back to the path of light. But to think that this was the only, or the last time we would be confronted by the darkness in their effort to thwart God's purpose would be unwise. I know that I for one have yet to step from mortality to immortality, though I know I'm on that path. But I will never let my guard down. I have seen in my heart that there are levels of darkness that are so subtle, and so deceptive that if I were to bop along thinking that nothing could touch me, I might fall into yet another illusion for which I had no defense in myself. On the other hand, I also know that there are those who are the messengers of God who stand in my defense against the themes of the dark ones which I do not understand. This is as it should be, for I can see that the "game" aint over yet. Thank God!" "Happiness Abounds When The Brotherhood Share," Hi John, Xavier and everyone, If our path was an extension of the universal path of the one energy of life we would be on a spiral wobbling between two poles back to the truth of love. On the larger cycle we had wobbled from choice of matter to choice of spirit. Now on smaller cycles we choose from force of desire, external expression of love, to the energy of love. We will keep wobbling until the end of the cycle we are on. As long as we are manifesting the one life we live in duality though less and less polarized or more and more neutralized. We are forever on course. Deviations are illusory rather than real. Paul Yu SpiritualityABC SpiritualityESOTERIC http://onelist.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-18/4481 From: Marylin Subject: The Old Fisherman - OT A friend writes: THE OLD FISHERMAN Our house was directly across the street from the clinic entrance of Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. We lived downstairs and rented the upstairs rooms to out patients at the clinic. One summer evening as I was fixing supper, there was a knock at the door. I opened it to see a truly awful looking man. "Why, he's hardly taller than my eight-year-old," I thought as I stared at the stooped, shriveled body. But the appalling thing was his face -- lopsided from swelling, red and raw. Yet his voice was pleasant as he said, "Good evening. I've come to see if you've a room for just one night. I came for a treatment this morning from the eastern shore, and there's no bus 'til morning." He told me he'd been hunting for a room since noon but with no success, no one seemed to have a room. "I guess it's my face...I know it looks terrible, but my doctor says with a few more treatments..." For a moment I hesitated, but his next words convinced me: "I could sleep in this rocking chair on the porch. My bus leaves early in the morning." I told him we would find him a bed, but to rest on the porch. I went inside and finished getting supper. When we were ready, I asked the old man if he would join us. "No thank you. I have plenty." And he held up a brown paper bag. When I had finished the dishes, I went out on the porch to talk with him a few minutes. It didn't take long time to see that this old man had an oversized heart crowded into that tiny body. He told me he fished for a living to support his daughter, her five children, and her husband, who was hopelessly crippled from a back injury. He didn't tell it by way of complaint; in fact, every other sentence was prefaced with a thanks to God for a blessing. He was grateful that no pain accompanied his disease, which was apparently a form of skin cancer. He thanked God for giving him the strength to keep going. At bedtime, we put a camp cot in the children's room for him. When I got up in the morning, the bed linens were neatly folded and the little man was out on the porch. He refused breakfast, but just before he left for his bus, haltingly, as if asking a great favor, he said, "Could I please come back and stay the next time I have a treatment? I won't put you out a bit. I can sleep fine in a chair." He paused a moment and then added, "Your children made me feel at home. Grownups are bothered by my face, but children don't seem to mind." I told him he was welcome to come again. And on his next trip he arrived a little after seven in the morning. As a gift, he brought a big fish and a quart of the largest oysters I had ever seen. He said he had shucked them that morning before he left so that they'd be nice and fresh. I knew his bus left at 4:00 a.m. and I wondered what time he had to get up in order to do this for us. In the years he came to stay overnight with us there was never a time that he did not bring us fish or oysters or vegetables from his garden. Other times we received packages in the mail, always by special delivery, fish and oysters packed in a box of fresh young spinach or kale, every leaf carefully washed. Knowing that he must walk three miles to mail these, and knowing how little money he had made the gifts doubly precious. When I received these little remembrances, I often thought of a comment our next-door neighbor made after he left that first morning. "Did you keep that awful looking man last night? I turned him away! You can lose roomers by putting up such people! Maybe we did lose roomers once or twice. But oh! If only they could have known him, perhaps their illness' would have been easier to bear. I know our family always will be grateful to have known him; from him we learned what it was to accept the bad without complaint and the good with gratitude to God. Recently I was visiting a friend who has a greenhouse, As she showed me her flowers, we came to the most beautiful one of all, a golden chrysanthemum, bursting with blooms. But to my great surprise, it was growing in an old dented, rusty bucket. I thought to myself, "If this were my plant, I'd put it in the loveliest container I had!" My friend changed my mind. "I ran short of pots," she explained, "and knowing how beautiful this one would be, I thought it wouldn't mind starting out in this old pail. It's just for a little while, till I can put it out in the garden." She must have wondered why I laughed so delightedly, but I was imagining just such a scene in heaven. "Here's an especially beautiful one," God might have said when he came to the soul of the sweet old fisherman. "He won't mind starting in this small body." All this happened long ago -- and now, in God's garden, how tall this lovely soul must stand. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7b) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4482 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: The Bride of Yoda - OT A thousand 'thank yous', Samu, Jedi Knight, for posting details of my unrequited love. I know it has already created a ripple of energy in the Force as last night I sat through a nasty 6.3 earthquake with no resultant damage to my home or possessions when normally, things start falling off my shelves during a .4 or .5. It was clear to me that my Beloved Yoda is with me, if not physically, then at least, ethericly, surrounding me with his protective love. Chris, the friend who 'doctored' the photo, and I are going to the movies tonight and I'm hoping that the news of his wild success at having his work displayed on the WWW will prompt him to pay for both the tickets *and* the popcorn. Well, hope *does* spring eternal! And thank you, John, for your great email. I'm certain that we are a reflection of a Creator who never stops laughing. After all, it's all a bit of a joke, isn't it? Sharon, your kind and loving message brought tears to my eyes and made my little Yodic ears flap with unadulterated glee. Thank you too, to all those who sent private messages. It's true that people can't resist a love story, even from someone who kisses the Blarney Stone every morning. (I can't help it - it's the 'Oirish' in me!) But even though your comfort has brought me great peace and joy, revealing my story has not been without its cost. My already ailing computer could not bear the sadness of the message it brought to you and is about to go to Cyber Heaven. In fact, this is the last message it will write to anyone So I'll be offline for two or three days while my new, mean, grunt machine is being built. As a good citizen, I decided to bite the bullet and buy a Pentium III, so as to assist government agencies and spy satellites keep tabs on me. Hi guys! (The age of paranoia has not yet passed!) So don't have too much fun without me, Folks. See you in a few days! Love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. - Voltaire Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4483 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: Re : Star Wars II "David Curtis" writes: "I think there is more to that decision than just saying, "I choose the Light". I've told myself that 100 times. While I can't imagine myself ever choosing the Dark side, I'm also aware that I haven't faced all of the challenges I'm required to face in order to ultimately choose the light. There's more to it than love, trust, and hope. Remember, while those things are wonderful things, they can also be used as tools by the Dark Brotherhood." Exactly what I meant, funny to see we are so much on the same line of thought. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4484 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: Re : Star Wars II I see what you mean (and thanks for the introduction:-) but JJ was talking about choosing between the white brotherhood and the dark one. I still have many jobs ahead before really choosing the white one, okay for that part. But I don't see how I could choose, and believe in the dark path, as I feel like I have done it before, and uncovered the illusion therein. So I can (and do) remain stuck in a mild blended path, hoping and trying to get better, but the temptation of evil and power leads to a conclusion that I know, at least that's how I feel, and what this life's experience told me. I am mustering courage, and faith in the flesh, to go ahead. I need balance, in order to grow, as a plant. That's a big part of my life's plan. Yet there exists the whole shadow, the part I don't see of myself, and of course I may be surprised in the future. To take your example, could Luke ever come to serve power? Except out of despair, and for a little time only, just the time to acknowledge and recognize that old experience and its effects? Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4485 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: The Bride of Yoda - OT Glenys Lowery writes: "As a good citizen, I decided to bite the bullet and buy a Pentium III, so as to assist government agencies and spy satellites keep tabs on me. Hi guys! (The age of paranoia has not yet passed!)" aaarfghh buy a mac!!!! I have an emac that put me into cyberspace, and I just bought a PC for gaming:-) I hate em!!! hahahaha Like Luke using Empire technology. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4486 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Two Paths Several of you have asked about my comment on the paths. Let me quote it again: "There will come a time in the life(s) of each disciple that he will have to choose one of the paths, but he cannot make that choice until he fully understands the directions of the two brotherhoods. Very few on the earth have progressed far enough to make that choice." The question arises: What about people who are loving and believe they have made a choice for good. How about keysters? How about all sincere seekers? Most people believe they have chosen the path of light to the best of their ability, but in reality they are making many small decisions that pave the way for a major decision of the two paths. Ironically, even most of those who believe they have chosen the dark path and have become Satanists have not yet chosen. Their decisions are dangerous and based on illusion but they have not yet seen the real choice. To choose between the two paths one must first see the two paths and one cannot see the two paths until he approaches the third initiation. We will talk more about the initiations in the future. Suffice it to say the first initiation is the birth of the love of Christ in the heart. This initiate learns to direct the physical passions in a positive and harmless direction. He overcomes maya. In the second initiation one receives the Holy Spirit and learns to control and direct his emotions in a positive and harmless direction. He overcomes glamour. Then as one approaches the third initiation the veil of illusion becomes lifted to the extent that the choice between the two paths becomes visible. Finally, the great choice becomes possible? All those who choose either side of the path have gone through much love and service, but even after experiencing the beauty of love and many spiritual experiences from God the temptation of the left and path may still be great. Why is that? After a person has experienced great love and spiritual experiences he often gets caught in the illusion that because Gods is on his side the future is going to be great. Then when great troubles come he begins to doubt the value of all that he has received and is tempted to believe that Self must come first. Hence the greatest gifts he has received often become a stumbling block. Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly? After we clear up a few things we will get to the Molecular Relationship. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4487 From: J J Dewey Subject: Yoda Speaks I Yoda speaking through JJ declare that I have come to seek my bride Glenys. I will soon teleport her to the ZOR System where we shall have a gala marriage and you shall be queen of a galaxy far away. There is a disturbance in the force, however. The Keysters pull you toward earth and I need to recharge my batteries so I can muster the strength to transport you. You will hear from me soon - be patient. Y Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4488 From: "Heidi Walcutt" Subject: Re: Re : Re: Re : Star Wars II Greetings Xavier: You wrote... "I see what you mean (and thanks for the introduction:-) but JJ was talking about choosing between the white brotherhood and the dark one. I still have many jobs ahead before really choosing the white one, okay for that part. But I don't see how I could choose, and believe in the dark path, as I feel like I have done it before, and uncovered the illusion therein." "I think that JJ was trying to intimate something that Yoda told Luke in "Empire". I can't remember the exact wording but it goes something like this, "... Your training is incomplete. Beware of Anger, Rage, Frustration.. These lead to the 'Dark' side, once you start down that path you can never return." The basic point here (imho) is that those who are not evolved enough to reign in their emotions and look at "the big picture" are unable to make a conscious "choice" and unless some drastic event reaches into the core emotion of love and light at the center of each individual (Luke's pleading with his father to save him) there is not much chance of changing your path. "So I can (and do) remain stuck in a mild blended path, hoping and trying to get better, but the temptation of evil and power leads to a conclusion that I know, at least that's how I feel, and what this life's experience told me." "I am mustering courage, and faith in the flesh, to go ahead. I need balance, in order to grow, as a plant. That's a big part of my life's plan." "Yet there exists the whole shadow, the part I don't see of myself, and of course I may be surprised in the future." "To take your example, could Luke ever come to serve power? Except out of despair, and for a little time only, just the time to acknowledge and recognize that old experience and its effects?" again imho Luke could never serve power. His experiences and growth (in past lives) lead up to the point where he is/was ready to make the full commitment to Light/Life/and Peaceful growth in the Universe. just my $0.02 worth Heidi Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4489 From: "Jill" Subject: Re: The Two Paths Hello to All, "Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly?" The aswer that comes is to develop within believe, faith and trust. love Jill, I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal http;//www.freeread.com The path is so much clearer when we pause to listen and follow with divine love Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4490 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Re : Star Wars II David Curtis writes: "here's more to it than love, trust, and hope. Remember, while those things are wonderful things, they can also be used as tools by the Dark Brotherhood." When I was 20 years younger, if I had read the above truth at that time, I would not have had the strength to continue on this earth. (I have had to fight the urge to do away with myself since I was under 20, but still here at 62) Facing the truth is often the hardest thing to do, but if we wish to get where we choose to be then it is necessary to see both sides, painful as it is. Denial is easier, but not preferable. So here we are wondering if we have made the choice we consciously want to make. I have a small gage I use that may or may not be of help to others. I pay attention to my dreams as they most often tell me about my spiritual condition. Then, not too long ago, I had a dream in which I had to choose, literally, between light and dark. I didn't need to think twice to choose the light. I remember mostly when I awoke and thought about the choice I made. I rejoiced that I was finally pointed in the direction I choose consciously to go. I have also found that singing/saying the Song of the 144,000 is a God send for me because of the tremendous strength and protection in it. One must feel it when saying it (or at least attempting to feel it) and then let go of it, trusting in our Father/God with absolutely NO doubt. JJ, please give us more about this. There is more that I am unable to get a handle on. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4491 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: More amazing Star Wars Folks All, :) there seems to be a lot more to Keysters than meets the eye... LeLona has decided to reveal her identity to us as well, the legend of the boa is very much alive... But the reptile itself is still hiding in invisible dimensions... Meet the woman behind the myth at: http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.htmlBoaBadGirlLeLona Mystically yours, Samuel Skywalker Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4492 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Re: The Two Paths J J Dewey writes: "Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly?" 1. Always strive to do the highest good possible. 2. Say the Song of the 144,000. 3. Learn to resist temptation. The only reason I can think of, that would make the Dark path the most tempting path, is because it's the easy one. It's the one that contains the greatest personal glory. (Illusionary) The Dark path is based on self-glorification, and the Path of Light is based on the glorification of the race as a whole. While the Path of Light is based on service, self-sacrifice, and truth; the Path of Darkness is based on possessions, illusions, and authoritative power. It's a choice between the benefit of yourself, or the benefit of the Whole. I doubt I've even scratched the surface of what's to come in the 3rd initiation. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4493 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Re: Re : Re: Re : Star Wars II xavier writes: "Exactly what I meant, funny to see we are so much on the same line of thought." Great minds think alike. =) - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4494 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: More amazing Star Wars Folks Samu writes: "here seems to be a lot more to Keysters than meets the eye... LeLona has decided to reveal her identity to us as well, the legend of the boa is very much alive... But the reptile itself is still hiding in invisible dimensions... Meet the woman behind the myth at: http://www.dlc.fi/~samu3/KeystersPhotoAlbum.htmlBoaBadGirlLeLona" Well, everyone has a little magic in 'em, huh? Thanks, Samu. It was a huge file after scanning in, and I didn't have a smaller one. So guys, there's much to be mythed about!!!!! LeLona LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4495 From: "Zia" Subject: The Gathering of Lights Greetings to all: J J Dewey wrote: "And he shall send out his messengers with enlightenment that will shake to the core, and they shall gather together into one place those who have chosen him, from the four winds, from one extreme of heaven to the other." "The gathering concept is the basic principle behind all evolution, physical and spiritual. Why do you suppose this is so?" This reflects your previous teaching JJ about evolution up the ladder, is the uniting of multiple consciousnesses to become one greater being. As we gather together we learn to operate as a group consciousness, which is part of our evolution. Perhaps this is why it is important to find our group, although like minds will always draw together, even if not directly on the physical plane it seems. So drawing from the four winds of earth, at a higher level would not encompass the difficulties of time distance and space here. Also as demonstrated in the Immortal, several could be drawn to another plane as a group, or from the four winds (term for earth), I would imagine. I have had dreams of being in other realities, often with people I did not know, attending universities etc. ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4496 From: "Zia" Subject: Re: The Gathering of Lights Greetings to all, I posted this message on Saturday 15th May, to see it arrive today on my email in box...this has allowed me to add another thought. At the highest level of our universe there is one God(being) and one consciousness. We gather together to remember that 'one', that we are united in oneness with, and become it, right here in this body, right where I am, for each of us. Love to all in the union of ourselves, ZIA previous post: Greetings to all: J J Dewey wrote: "And he shall send out his messengers with enlightenment that will shake to the core, and they shall gather together into one place those who have chosen him, from the four winds, from one extreme of heaven to the other." "The gathering concept is the basic principle behind all evolution, physical and spiritual. Why do you suppose this is so?" This reflects your previous teaching JJ about evolution up the ladder, is the uniting of multiple consciousnesses to become one greater being. As we gather together we learn to operate as a group consciousness, which is part of our evolution. Perhaps this is why it is important to find our group, although like minds will always draw together, even if not directly on the physical plane it seems. So drawing from the four winds of earth, at a higher level would not encompass the difficulties of time distance and space here. Also as demonstrated in the Immortal, several could be drawn to another plane as a group, or from the four winds (term for earth), I would imagine. I have had dreams of being in other realities, often with people I did not know, attending universities etc. ZIA Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4497 From: "Christopher Wynter" Subject: [Why ... ? Background ... ] If you do not wish to read this post, you can choose to delete it. I do not want you to believe anything I say to you in this series.. And yes, you do already know, on some level, all that I am going to write .. The work I am involved in is facilitating the kinesthetic reactions from the body of remembering .. either recognition and acceptance .. or rejection. It comes from understanding the background behind judgment and blame .. not from blame or seeking a scapegoat ... Its not about my teaching, but about a collective learning from the feedback from each who replies to allow a more complete picture to be built .. This work is about each individual making choices from their own deep inner knowing, not from what I tell them they should believe. If you do not have information, or possibilities, you cannot make a choice. If I receive a request from the list owner/operator not to continue with this series, I will stop this series ... If you want to reply to this either on or off the list, it will make life easier for me and others if you use 'Why' in the subject frame. Thank you to all who have requested this series to be posted on this list .. ************************** The questions are often asked along the Spiritual Paths .. Why do I need to do ...? Why do I need to search ...? Why can't I accept what the books say ...? Why cant I accept myself ...? Why can't I make it real ...? Where are the emotions coming from ...? Why do I react so ...? Why can't I just be ...? and most of all, Why am I so afraid of my true spiritual self why do I need approval from others ... What is the ego As I have posted on this and other lists before, I work with a group of people here in Tasmania in the area of deep body remembering. Its been a long journey ... and I am not saying that I have all of the answers .. but .. A major reason for all of these questions has surfaced from deep within the unconscious of the body, and from the kinaesthetic reactions from the group, it feels as though this may go a long way towards helping a lot of people .. You don't have to do anything ... for us, this information is too important not to share freely ... its very simple, but some of the background needs to be given .. It may not seem applicable to all, but it will be applicable to many. I do not need you to believe what I say, but if you feel reactions within your body from the words written, then you will know there is truth in the words .. this information is applicable to all spiritual pathways .. For those who wish to follow this thread, may I suggest that you consider the possible answers to these questions yourself, in silence ... know that as a breakthrough has been made , the answer is already in Universal Consciousness... but its OK if you're not able to pick it up yet. Who is Anunda? This is a question that has often been asked of me. Only this morning I was asked "How do I find Anunda?" ... to which my reply was "Anunda has found you" When I first started out on my Spiritual Quest, I reacted to what people were telling me I should believe, I reacted to words they were using, and to the way I was told who and what I should believe. Please bear with me as I go into some of the background ... you may not yet understand what I am getting at, but it will become clearer ... this I promise you. We often ask "How do I find God", "How do I find Jesus" ... the answer is really quite simple ... we don't. The ancient Chinese Tao puts it quite simply. "From One came Two From Two came Three From Three came ten thousand other things." The Bible contains the phrase ... "In the beginning was the word." Early on in my own personal journey I read the line "What you are looking for you already are". So I asked the question "Why." And then I understood that my eye can see, but cannot see itself except by looking at itself in a mirror .. and what it sees in the mirror is not the eye that is looking, but a reflection, a reversal, the flip, the opposite of that eye. So if I am God, Jesus, anunda .. then everything that I see is the mirror image of the I that is looking. It is not the I am, but it is the mirror image of that. Now, going back to the words from the Tao, One has created Two (or duality) in the need to see itself. By not accepting I am, I have created a subject (I, the looker) and Object (what I am looking at) ... now, both of these contain the original I but the seeker forgot that and made all sorts of judgmental decisions about not only the subject but also the object. Confused? Ok, so was I .. which part of I (you) is confused? .. where does the confusion come from.? Where do the reactions come from.? So I remembered the principle of the Mirror. I decided to flip the question .. and the answer. If what I am looking for I already am, what is it that separates me from the experience of being that? Who, what, where and why are the questions that arise out of duality, of seeing subject as separate from object? But the answers of religion and spirituality brought reactions .. where did those reactions come from? If I returned to `God' there should be no reactions ... why was `God' wrong? ..and the word `Love' ... well, that brought up more reactions than I would care to mention at this point. I had to remember `One' ... for myself I had to define or find a word that aroused within me no feelings, no reactions, a word that my body felt comfortable with, a word that encompassed everything. It meant defining a new word that contained the essence of what I `knew', but for which there was no re-action. So I looked at `The Nothing', `Innocence', `the void', and all of those other words the described wholeness. Can there be innocence that does not have an opposite in `Guilt' .? can there be a nothing that contains `Everything' .? Can there be a void that contains only pure potential before separation, before I place a judgment on what I see reflected back to me in the mirror? ... Can there be a word or a symbol which implies all of these, a nexus, a common meeting point that does not have some implied meaning, a point like the dot within the circle ... Can there be something simple I can conceptualise as the essence of everything . From the Sanskrit, Ananda defines the Bliss of the Yogaa or union with the Divine. I has been used before as an image, a symbol, but has been the object of conflict ... it has been deified (or held up as a god). Sanskrit is the root language behind many of the languages of the world. The concept of this oneness was what I was looking for ... the essence of oneness .. So anunda was born ... an essence, the One before separation of the Tao, the void that is pure potential, the innocence that is beyond guilt, the nothing that contains everything. The meeting point of all spiritual pathways east and west, of all colours, creeds and races of man. There are no capital letters in `anunda' it is not an object, being or in fact anything outside of you ... it is the you that you cannot see ... the essence from which `God' and all the lesser gods descended . Why ... ? is the question asked by the knower inside each of us who acknowledges the existence of that anunda/essence/innocence on some level and cannot remember what it is that separated us from that. The ego is all duality and plurality that has descended from that One ... yet it still contains the essence of unification We forgot when we looked in the mirror ... we forgot that the reflection we see is the flip or reversal of what is looking ... we forgot that what we were reading is metaphor for aspects of that which is in essence indescribable. This journey is the journey of remembering ... of reconnecting the fragments ..of the ego/mind/body recovering all of the judgments and the children of those judgments of the separation that saw one become two and two become ten thousand other things. It is not written from any textbook, but encompasses all ... for there is more wisdom in a tree before it is cut down, processed, turned into paper and covered with the written word. May you find within yourself the peace that is the eye of the hurricane. With Respect Christopher Wynter anunda's list: < anunda@onelist.com List Owner: Christopher Wynter, Hobart, Tasmania wynter@bigpond.com List Archive: Web site: Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4498 From: (Richards, Gary) Subject: Re: The Two Paths Hi Folks, JJ has asked a question which for me is probably the hardest one so far. I don't know if I have 3 valid answers but here goes. "After a person has experienced great love and spiritual experiences he often gets caught in the illusion that because Gods is on his side the future is going to be great. Then when great troubles come he begins to doubt the value of all that he has received and is tempted to believe that Self must come first. Hence the greatest gifts he has received often become a stumbling block." "Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly?" It appears to me as though we could become complacent after experiencing the great love and spiritual awareness such that when the real challenge is presented to us (The veil is lifted) we could do one or more of the following: 1. Find the challenge too overwhelming and take what appears to be the easy way out believing that love and spirituality is easy so that must be the way to go. In this case we need to be clear on what our beliefs and fears are. We need to be prepared to take "the great leap of faith". We do "fear" so well, that we what we often fear these days is our own "fear". If we are not careful we could be like the dog who chases it's own tail and disappear up our own dark orifice. In fact we need to be clear of all emotions as they do not lend themselves to right decision making. 2. See only personal/immediate gain/gratification that may be not benefit the whole and therefore be tempted to be short sighted and selfish. In this case we need to explore our selfish needs/desires and look beyond the short term and look beyond our own nose and see the bigger picture. We are not alone and the whole spiritual progression seems to be about re-uniting the fragmented parts that have long ago been separated from the whole. It seems we are striving to become whole again and must keep that in mind when the big decision is to be made. 3. Apparently from what JJ has said, the options will come as a bit of a surprise and may not be as we imagine so this will possibly cause confusion. We need to be clear of our purpose and free our minds of preconceived ideas about what/how the choices will present themselves. If we are clear on our purpose this will make it easier to discern the right path. If we have no preconceived ideas, then we will not have to do battle with our pre-judgments. Such a battle would only serve to hinder the decision making process, discernment would go out the window and guesswork and prejudice would kick in just like it does for most of us right now. We must let go all that is not real and have a clear mind with no preconceptions about that which we don't know. If we did already know it, there would be no decision to make. Love & Light Gary Richards Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-19/4499 From: "jon ong" Subject: Re: The Two Paths...3 initiations The 3 initiations remind me of when Joshua (Jesus) was tempted when he was fasting in the desert... 1. First Initiation - Birth of Love of Christ - Overcoming Maya Joshua overcame the physical passion of hunger, seeking instead to fill the hunger for the spiritual word of God. He taught that life was not meant for fulfillment of physical passions alone, but that true nourishment could be obtained by seeking the fruit of God. 2. Second Initiation - Receive the Holy Spirit - Overcoming Glamour Joshua rejected the glamor offered by the adversary, who tempted him to throw himself down the cliff. Joshua acknowledged that he came to serve mankind, not to serve SELF. 3. Third Initiation - Overcoming Illusion Joshua tore away the illusion that the temporary material world was all that mattered, that rather we should strive to possess the eternal kingdom of God which lasts forever. Light, Love & Power to All.... jonathan Keyster from Singapore Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4500 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : The Two Paths J J Dewey writes: "After a person has experienced great love and spiritual experiences he often gets caught in the illusion that because Gods is on his side the future is going to be great. Then when great troubles come he begins to doubt the value of all that he has received and is tempted to believe that Self must come first. Hence the greatest gifts he has received often become a stumbling block." "Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly?" I see there is much truth in your above statement, it relates to my life pretty well, and I am so at a loss in that trial that it's difficult to see the path (the answer to your question). I *am* tempted to believe that self must come first. I have experienced great love and spiritual experiences, namely my consciousness in childhood. I do play life as if the future not only was going to be great, but more, as if it couldn't be any other way, as if there did not exist any other way. This may be a grand illusion, yes. So the first point needed is to discern between spiritual gifts, that come at a time to hearken the disciple, from the path of life, that *is* painful, especially disciple life. Because I have lived high states of consciousness, and I don't stand the job on earth, I am tempted to fall in the illusion that earth is a great game, all of many colors, that mind power alone, and inner love, can magically turn life into paradise:-) And solve world problems with a simple inner tuning. This topic is really a good thing:-) I am married with a woman that is especially sensible and tuned to worldly needs, material trials, and it balances my habit to despise them and try overlook life's trials. I don't know if I can answer to your question, I first need to change my general attitude towards outer life. Thanks for pointing out:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4501 From: (Richards, Gary) Subject: Re: The Two Paths Hi Folks, Further to my previous posting on this subject: "After a person has experienced great love and spiritual experiences he often gets caught in the illusion that because Gods is on his side the future is going to be great. Then when great troubles come he begins to doubt the value of all that he has received and is tempted to believe that Self must come first. Hence the greatest gifts he has received often become a stumbling block." "Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly?" It is possible that when faced with the big decision, we will be tempted to go the way of those who we love, respect and/or trust. It is also possible we will not trust ourselves, this is a biggy for most of us I suspect. So if someone we love and trust wants to go to the left, we might want to follow even though we have an inner yearning to go right. Though we are trying to get home and reunite with our spiritual family, our journey is ours alone and there is no right and wrong path. Going the other way and apparently separating from those we love may seem hard to do but in reality we are already separated and none has the right to coerce/force another to follow. We will all be united in the end as all roads lead to Rome. I am reminded of the story JJ told about the three travelers who arrived at the fork in the road and the wise man appeared and gave them instructions about the decision they must now make. The first was fear stricken and could not make the journey (returning to the fork), the second found what he called Heaven but much later wished he could have played a part in creating it, while the third found hell, but found that it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, subsequently he helped other's to see that it wasn't to be feared, then he helped them build their own Heaven. The third man actually got the cigar even though it seemed at first he had chosen unwisely. I suspect the answers to JJ's question lie within the principles offered in that story. Love & Light Gary Richards Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4502 From: J J Dewey Subject: OT History Lesson I came across this and found it so interesting i thought I would post it. Just thought you would appreciate this interesting historical info about Life in the 1500s: Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and were still smelling pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the BO. Baths equaled a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had The privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then The women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the Water was so dirty you could actually loose someone in it. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water." Houses had thatched roofs. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the pets .... dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Hence the saying, "It's raining cats and dogs," There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed A real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could really Mess up your nice clean bed. So, they found if they made beds with big posts And hung a sheet over the top, it addressed that problem. Hence those Beautiful big 4 poster beds with canopies. The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying "dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors which would get slippery in the winter when wet. So they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on they kept adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed at the entry way, hence a "thresh hold." They cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They mostly ate vegetables and didn't get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes the stew had food in it that had been in there for a month. Hence the rhyme: peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old." Sometimes they could obtain pork and would feel really special when that happened. When company came over, they would bring out some bacon and hang it to show it off. It was a sign of wealth and that a man "could really bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around And "chew the fat." Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with a high acid Content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food. This happened most often with tomatoes, so they stopped eating tomatoes ... for 400 years. Most people didn't have pewter plates, but had trenchers -- a piece of wood with the middle scooped out like a bowl. Trencher were never washed and a lot of times worms got into the wood. After eating off wormy trenchers, they would get "trench mouth." Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or the "upper crust." Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey. The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the custom of holding a "wake." England is old and small and they started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up coffins and would take their bones to a house and reuse the grave. In reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their wrist and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night to listen for the bell. Hence on the "graveyard shift" they would know that someone was "saved by the bell" or he was a "dead ringer" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4503 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Three Preparations Question: What are the three most important things we can do to prepare for the great decision, so when the day comes we will choose correctly? I enjoyed your comments on this question. As readers pointed out through their comments the number of things we can do to prepare for the great decision is much more than three. Nevertheless, I often stress the three major points of a principle to give focus to the answer. The average person can keep three points in focus much better than a dozen. Gary deserves a gold star today for his thoughtful response on this. (1) The first thing we can do to prepare for the great decision is to follow the highest that you know. Both Dave and Gary gave answers in this direction. Gary pointed out that we often do not trust ourselves and let ourselves be too influenced by people we associate with, especially people we love. How often is it that we know the right direction to take and then we let someone we are close to plant doubts in our minds and distract us from the light ahead? The ancient statement of "keeping your mind steady in the light" applies here. Once we know a thing is right and true we must never betray that truth, even if the whole world takes an opposing course. (2) Seek to become pure in heart and become he who has pure intent. Question: Almost everyone believes they have pure intent. It is easy for us to see deceptive intent in others, but difficult to see it in ourselves. Why is this so and what can we do about it? What is the "blind spot" in the physical eye and is there a corresponding blind spot in our spiritual eyes? How can we see through the blind spot? (3) Seek to look beyond the universe of Self and cause that your actions benefit the whole with the realization that the self will be more fully realized in the long run. Question: Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4504 From: J J Dewey Subject: Note to Christopher. In posting your material you stated: "Everything which has been covered in the list discussions since I have been lurking on the sidelines has been covered within the work that this group has been experienced/ exposed to over the last 5 years. There have also been tools and processes and philosophies used you haven't covered." I seriously doubt this, but if it is true I would like to see it. From the material you have posted so far I would classify it as off topic material and have a hard time seeing where it is going. The group has decided that when we make postings that are off topic that we begin the subject with the letters OT, especially if they are of any length. For something like you are posting I would suggest you put it in a web page and give us the address, but let us throw it out to the group. Does anyone find the "why" writings interesting enough to desire that the postings continue? If Rick has any comment I will yield to him on this. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4505 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Note to Christopher. RE: OT's, I agree, that the material does not appear to be on any topic we are discussing. I hadn't said anything, so far because I still hadn't figured out what topic he was talking about. Sorry, I can be pretty dense, some times. I visited the web site, to get a better idea, read the first few pages worth of text, then scanned over the rest, but came away scratching my head. I still don't know what the topic is, but figured it was just me being short sighted. I wrote Christopher, once but got a form letter in reply, inviting me to join a new mail list, to read more of what he had to say about whatever it is he is talking about. I think, when Keysters post OT's, they usually are really only semi-OT, in that they fit in with the general theme of what we are about. We have all agreed, in the past, that this is okay and welcome. The "Why" posts do not seem to fit these parameters and appear to be adverts, mass mailed to a number of mail lists. I think we might all be better served, if his communications with us were more in person. I usually don't open mail addressed to "occupant". I'd welcome any other opinions, from the Keysters, on this subject. I am sorry if I come across short. Lately, I have to be more efficient with my time, as I have a lot on my mind and haven't slept more than three hour per night, this week. In Oneness, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4506 From: John Kosior Subject: (OT) Web Page Here's something interesting to look at. http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/catsincorp/HandOfGod.html Content-Base: "http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/catsinco Content-Location: "http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/catsinco The Hand Of God This is a picture that was taken in Hazel Green, Alabama of a funnel cloud during a tornado warning April 24, 1999. What you are seeing is the funnel cloud and a tree that was blown down. What you are about to see next is the same picture turned sideways. "http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/catsincorp/images/Image24.jpg" What Do You See? "http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/catsincorp/images/Image25.jpg" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4507 From: John Kosior Subject: Why Not.....Why? J J Dewey wrote: "For something like you are posting I would suggest you put it in a web page and give us the address, but let us throw it out to the group. Does anyone find the "why" writings interesting enough to desire that the postings continue?" "If Rick has any comment I will yield to him on this." Top O' The Morning Folks, So again I say, why not "why"? While I am of similar position as JJ, in that I don't really know where it's going, I'm also of the opinion that it hasn't been an offense to the list or the discussions. In fact, with the relaxed pace at which on topic posts are coming through, I see it as well timed for some of the keysters to offer their "other" studies. Of course I agree that the "(OT)" off topic idea should be applied, but in reading the posts, I feel like I've just read the introduction to a book and still don't know what it's about. Now I gotta know! :) I trust that all of our internal discernment filters are working, as are our delete buttons, so "why not"? But Christopher, try to serve us only the "upper crust", because there might be something good in your material, and I wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water". I for one have no trouble "chewing the fat" with you on this, but if I find "worms in the trenches", I'm gonna stop eating. Of course if your posts don't go anywhere, we may have to have a "wake" for them. Who knows, maybe this stuff will come alive. Oh, and don't worry about any late hours folks. I'll be happy to work the "graveyard shift". :o) A cliche a day is better than an apple in many ways. :D John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4508 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: The Three Preparations J J Dewey wrote: "(2) Seek to become pure in heart and become he who has pure intent." "Question: Almost everyone believes they have pure intent. It is easy for us to see deceptive intent in others, but difficult to see it in ourselves. Why is this so and what can we do about it? What is the "blind spot" in the physical eye and is there a corresponding blind spot in our spiritual eyes? How can we see through the blind spot?" Hi Again, Well, you say that it is easy to see deceptive intent in others, but difficult in ourselves. Forgive me as I play with these words a little. It is not difficult to see deceptive intent in ourselves any more than it's easy to see them in others. The plain truth is that we simply view ourselves and others by different criteria. When I perceive another, I might choose to look at that person with suspicion. In which case, I will safeguard my mind to discern any deceptive intent. Of course at that time I will be viewing my own motives for this safeguard and if I choose to look upon myself with trust, I will see myself as being very wise to have built up these defenses. But let's say I choose to use the same criteria for the other and myself. And let's say that I choose "suspicion". I see the other as suspect and build defenses. But then I think of myself as suspect. And when I do that, I'm free to see all kinds of deceptive intent. For instance I may see that my motivation I fear and thus find my own conclusions as untrustworthy. Or let's say I decide to see the other and myself from the attitude of trust. I look at the other and rather than looking out for the pitfalls in what they say, I simply receive their wisdom in Love. And of course seeing myself from trust, I perceive my own intentions in being so trusting of the other as most holy and righteous. All of this creates the dilemma that JJ describes in the above question. You see it's unwise to view others and yourself from different criteria. But it's also unwise to view yourself and others from either of the same criteria. To view both from suspicion would breed separation. But to view both from trust would breed an "open season" for the dark brothers to deceive and have us thinking ourselves holy and righteous for doing it. The answer, therefore, must be another view completely which encompasses ALL perspectives. So is this to say that when I perceive another I see them as both suspect AND trustworthy? No, not at all. What it means is that I am aware that both possibilities exist as to the intent of the other (and myself), but I choose to operate from another perspective. That perspective can be found all over the pages of the book of Proverbs in the bible. It says that any evil intent from others or myself will turn back on itself and produce little, but good intention will build upon itself and bring good fruit. By adopting this perspective before hand, it is possible to have balanced relationships with all others and ourselves, while also making it very easy to discern between evil, good, better and best. The outcome of this perspective in my life has been balanced relationships and an abundance of good fruit, while weeding out many deceptive intents in others as well as myself. "Question: Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples." One quick example is in the Conversations With God books. There is an extensive discussion there that "whether in relationship, or in all of life, one's attention should always be on the self". I'd make some comment here, but I'm a little busy looking at myself in the mirror right now. Damn! What a good looking guy! Oh,........um........sorry, I got a little caught up in the moment there. :o) Wishing You All A Happy Perspective, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4509 From: Jill Subject: I understand why? Hi Guys, Here I come out from the depths of my world of communication silence :o]. BTW Love the photos, loved Glenys' photo of The bride of Yoda I thought it was great. :o] I understand where Chris is coming from and going with this why. I have just been through a darkness of the soul, big time, to ask the very same questions that Chris posed and yes the answers came to me. An abundance of information has come to me that at the moment their are earth changes, it is a time for breaking limiting patterns, belief systems and find the true meaning of love universally. At the moment where I am it seems like all hell is breaking loose. It feels like there is an incredible negative energy that is just so draining I literally want to just stay indoors, everywhere I look there is so much unhappiness externally. What Chris is getting at is why people are reacting and co reacting in negative destructive ways? Why are people being so skeptical, why are some people being accepted and others not? The answer is a lot of people have fear issues at this point in time and it is affecting every part of everyone's lives. It is a time now where people will be faced with what they fear most and learning to overcome this. I have read the planet is out of alignment because of all the negative garbage being sent out by the majority of the world and it is tilting back the other way until it comes back into balance in August. Where does this fear and negativity come from, from people's belief systems. It is a time to remember that your thoughts create your reality and your future. What will you create for yourself and your environment. I just ended my share of sending fear actions and reactions out. I have found the answer for me how to overcome it and get back to the very essence of the Life Force that is in every living thing in this planet and that is what Jesus taught in the bible, to simply love God and others - send lots of wonderful beautiful positive loving energy out. It is a time to pray abundantly. When God/life force/love is bubbling inside then there is no fear, loving positive thoughts get rid of the fear, negative stuff. This can go with JJ's post of when a time will come when we are to be tested will we know what path to choose. This may just be a preparation period for people to learn to overcome their fears so when the time comes they will know what to choose without doubt no matter what. As for me there are no 2 paths only one and that is of God, Love, when we recognise the truth of nothing can beat God and have it resonate within us intensely, then there is only one real path that exists the other is just an illusion held together by people's egos and fear base thinking. Where does evil start? In the thoughts and minds of individuals. Chris's post is like feedback to me what I have just experienced to come out the other end, with just a beautiful feeling of safe, secure, protected feeling of God. I would like to read what Chris found. What gets rid of the fear/negative thought pattern? It is love as I read in 1 John Chp 4 vrs8. Also weeks ago when I was feeling like a complete desperate s--t no one wrote and said to me Hey Jill you didn't write O T, actually I found some people were wonderfully supportive, this can mean a lot to a person who feels like their in hell and no one cares, thanks guys :o], it was a great strength. I also didn't know that OT is what people write when they discuss things that are irrelevant to the other teachings. I also know Chris is new to the list and possibly unaware as I am. JJ I think that if you say it to one person then you have to say it to another person that hasn't done it either, so you can tell me too and now that I know I will write OT :o]. I think it is a time of acceptance, love, peace, balance, good will and positive thoughts to be sent out to the Universe and to each other. I time of Giving without expecting anything in Return, A time to hug your family, friends, smile at the people in the street, talk to the person at the check out, find out about your neighbour. Just to connect and to stop isolating from each other. Maybe open up to What Chris has to share and others because there may be someone on the list that this information helps and with the way everyone loves God on this list what do we really have to be afraid or skeptical of. JJ this is a list dedicated to your teachings and people are on here to learn, I respect and accept that. I also recognise that you like to go with the majority vote which is great. I vote for Chris to share :o] Love, Jill I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal http://www.freeread.com After a storm a rainbow appears may everyone see only rainbows :o] Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4510 From: Susi Subject: Re: Why Not.....Why? John Kosior writes: "Top O' The Morning Folks, So again I say, why not "why"? While I am of similar position as JJ, in that I don't really know where it's going, I'm also of the opinion that it hasn't been an offense to the list or the discussions. In fact, with the relaxed pace at which on topic posts are coming through, I see it as well timed for some of the keysters to offer their "other" studies. Of course I agree that the "(OT)" off topic idea should be applied, but in reading the posts, I feel like I've just read the introduction to a book and still don't know what it's about. Now I gotta know! :)" "I trust that all of our internal discernment filters are working, as are our delete buttons, so "why not"? But Christopher, try to serve us only the "upper crust", because there might be something good in your material, and I wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water". I for one have no trouble "chewing the fat" with you on this, but if I find "worms in the trenches", I'm gonna stop eating. Of course if your posts don't go anywhere, we may have to have a "wake" for them. Who knows, maybe this stuff will come alive. Oh, and don't worry about any late hours folks. I'll be happy to work the "graveyard shift". :o)" "A cliche a day is better than an apple in many ways. :D" I'm sorry! I know this is somewhat of a one liner but I couldn't resist. JJ I loved your quirky little message about how some of the old time sayings came to be. John I really love how you took them and made a play on words and will keep these two off beat, humorous, and funny topics in my quirky little mind all day! Thank you all for the smiles ;-) BTW I am of like mind on this issue with John.....but I also subscribed to the anunda@onelist specifically for the reason that I felt some peoples from the many other lists I get might find some of Mr. Wynters work too far off topic (OT). Intuition foretold of these most recent reservations from many not just on this list but on others as well. "Books increase our knowledge, Knowledge increases our understanding, Understanding increases our tolerance: (tol-er-ance) sympathy or indulgence for all that exists which differs or conflicts with one's own beliefs or practices!-inspired by the Creator written by SJA" I wrote this several years ago and though it might apply here only we can substitute Reading for "Books" Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4511 From: xavier Subject: Re : Re: Note to Christopher. Rick Audette writes: "I'd welcome any other opinions, from the Keysters, on this subject. I am sorry if I come across short." I am already fed up with these OTs. They do feel like mass mailing. This list is no place for blunt advertising IMO. (NSHO, why should I be humble in such a situation?) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4512 From: xavier Subject: Re : Why Not.....Why? John Kosior writes: "So again I say, why not "why"? While I am of similar position as JJ, in that I don't really know where it's going, I'm also of the opinion that it hasn't been an offense to the list or the discussions. In fact, with the relaxed pace at which on topic posts are coming through, I see it as well timed for some of the keysters to offer their "other" studies." Well, reading you, I agree that my bad temper has talked once again. I won't oppose Chris' OTs anymore, I put my teeth back in my big wolf mouth:-) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4513 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Re : Why Not.....Why? xavier wrote: "Well, reading you, I agree that my bad temper has talked once again. I won't oppose Chris' OTs anymore, I put my teeth back in my big wolf mouth:-)" Hey Xavier, I really love you. :D Simple and to the point. Your Brother, John PS. Hey Keysters. If you share the Love, aire the Love. Have A GREAT Day! Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4514 From: Anni Ida West Subject: Re:The Three Preparations Hi precious keysters I have been very busy for a long time - still am. But I check and read your wonderful postings every day. And I enjoy them so much :-)) This one made me jump though - I have to write back :- )) JJ wrote: "Question: Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples." In new age circles! YES! In so many places - it is very popular to say "that you must make yourself happy first - only then can you make others happy" or sometimes put a little differently but with the same meaning. This has disturbed me for a very long time - I suddenly understood that today reading your words, JJ. Personally this has been a real problem to me for a long time now. Because almost all my life is occupied with doing things for others: taking care of my 2 kids that I live with by myself, being a student counselor and taking care of students at my job. Also I care a lot about wild animals and people who ask or need help. Sometimes I feel very drained and tired. Then new age people say to me: "Make yourself happy - care for yourself first - you must put yourSELF first otherwise you will not be able to do good to others" and those words used to bother me although I did not quite understand why. Were they right? Was I being stupid not having much time or money to spend on mySELF - am I doing something wrong? I often got depressed and confused. Now I understand that their words are not true. Of course I must take good care of myself - so that I can be of service to others :-)) I must look at what is best for the whole - and I can be of most use when I feel good and fine. But it is not true that I must put mySELF before others for my own sake! I feel like babbling along and this probably makes no sense at all to most of you - am I talking too much about mySELF?? But I have seen some light today and now I know much better how to handle my everyday life - thank you JJ. Glenys - don't stay away for too long - you are missed :-) Love and light to all of you Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4515 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: I understand why? Could I make a request of some of you, please? Please configure your mail readers to format to less then 80 columns. Some of us don't use hi- res graphical mail readers and those messages are REALLY hard to read. In the same mind the HTML that came through was also hard to read, not everyone uses a mail program capable of HTML rendering. Please just send web addresses, mail is supposed to be a lowest common denominator type thing. :) For reference, I telnet into a UNIX machine and use Pine to read messages. I'm stuck with it at the moment, so it would be appreciated. :) Travis Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4516 From: J J Dewey Subject: Invitation to Chris I want Chris to know that we encourage him to participate in this list and if you do find something of interest, even if it is off topic, it is usually much more interesting if you use your own words. For instance I notice these Why postings are showing up other places posted by different individuals as if some promoter is giving commands to post these things everywhere. Now if one of our readers were to post something I wrote on black holes in the Course in Miracles forum this would be seen as an odd thing and I would discourage it. I encourage Keysters to post something about the Immortal on other lists if it fits in with the subject matter. Even so, it is obvious that Chris finds these writings of value and we are always looking for greater light here so my invitation to Chris is this. Tell us in your own words something of value you have learned from these writings and how they have benefited you. Try and be specific. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-20/4517 From: Zia Subject: The Three Preparations Greetings to All, My goodness, there is alot of food for thought, although not so many postings it would seem. In response to 'Why' postings, I have some thoughts, that really cause one to reflect on 'the three preparations' as well. I seem to really enjoy all that is coming in on this list. And funnily enough I have asked myself 'why'? It isn't really like me to want to be side-tracked, in fact for so long the goal was all important. That's changed and I was not aware of when that occurred. It seems I now trust the law of attraction. For I am seeing how everything that is posted fits in with whatever direction the 'teachings' are taking, it must be true to the law of attraction. And we must get the opportunity to see all aspects or sides. When I read JJ's posting about perhaps putting the 'why' stuff on a web page, I could really see the merit in that, from my perspective of getting to the goal of JJ's teachings. Rick certainly put it succinctly to wrap it up and get on with the direction of the goal. Then John Kosior had me laughing, taking a post again by JJ of the 1500's which I had already seen recently and being so open to receive and so brilliant in defining parameters to hold his interest. Oh John you are such a delight. I found myself moving in each person's direction. And then Jill so wonderfully stating how one can benefit so well from what may seem to others like (OT) and for that one person it has the answer, and inspiration. I loved it all, and discovered that the rush for the goal in me was long gone. It had changed to enjoying the journey. Receiving from all of us is part of the journey, and I find I have time and interest and the desire to see its applicability, because I have drawn it to me by the law of attraction. So then I looked for the three preparations. You guys are so quick. I find sometimes I just have to write what first comes, or we're on to the next subject, and I haven't really shared the real gifts received because the list has gone on from that subject by the time I've finished my meal. Guess I am a slow eater. I enjoy savoring the bites. 1. Willing to trust that ALL that is brought to me is for my own growth, enjoyment and advancement in evolution into oneness. In many ways appearing to be the fool, willing to perhaps walk where no other will tread. In that openness of mind, I realise that I am better able to receive soul/spirit/God guidance than if I have any preconceived judgments, fears, and/or expectations. To really trust the law of attraction, and that I can also overcome any obstacle because I am always given all that I need for any situation. Again trust. 2. Willing to apply the wisdom I have gained, willing to apply and test the knowledge I have been given, always with the final goal in mind. And of course always willing to learn as I go, realising that is evolution. 3. Letting go of past ways of thinking, such as the goal is the only important thing, and allowing my openness to receive, willingness to apply and test, and pausing to see how the pieces presented to me fit together, to aid me in my evolution right where I am now. I used to think 'why look in a direction I do not want to go'. And that could apply nicely to 'the dark side'. However, I discovered in taking the 'fear' our of 'dark' that I needed to know about this darkness, or it could be in myself 'unknown'. So I decided I might need to study the 'enemy' so I could overcome it within myself. This brought me the wonderful little book called 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu and the following quotation inspired me to allow the law of attraction without resistance (to the best of my ability and improving all the time)"if you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 battles. If you know yourself, but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy or yourself, you will succumb in every battle". Well the world in general does not know itself or the enemy, 'the enlightened ones' are growing in knowing themselves, but the truly liberated ones must know themselves and the enemy fully. Great definition of oneness. Now there's no enemy. Which brought me to JJ's further question: "Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples." And of course the answer is yes. We're all on the same road, as far as I am concerned. Because we will all end up at the final destination. So 'KNOW THYSELF' is taught over and over, and everywhere it seems in any 'scripture' including the Bible. Most new age teachers are giving techniques to assist in this at some level. And almost every religion I have come across Eastern and Western and anywhere in between, this is important. It is the capital S in Self, and without knowing myself, and seeing all the obstacles I have created that mirror in my outside world, I will never be able to receive the guidance of my soul/spirit/ God. I won't be able to hear it. Which is why for years I think I kept my eyes on the goal, and 'dark brothers' just didn't exist in my reality. I didn't want to be distracted by all the voices of others, and sift through it to return to the same point, called keep my eyes on the goal. However I now understand that I am powerful when I can walk through that loud crowd and all its distractions, allow what is drawn to me, move through it learning from it, and keeping my eyes on that goal, and enjoying the journey. Then I truly know myself with whatever is presented to me. And my world is rich and beautiful. Thank you to all of you, I love the meals we share, and the brightness of the lights at the table. ZIA Post No. keys-l: /199905-21/4518 From: Christopher Wynter Subject: Re: Invitation to Chris ... Chris' reply JJ wrote: "I want Chris to know that we encourage him to participate in this list and if you do find something of interest, even if it is off topic, it is usually much more interesting if you use your own words. Even so, it is obvious that Chris finds these writings of value and we are always looking for greater light here so my invitation to Chris is this. Tell us in your own words something of value you have learned from these writings and how they have benefited you. Try and be specific." Hello JJ ... and thank you for the invitation ... these are my own writings, my own words (insomuch as words can be 'mine'). They are my experiences of my journeys relating the 'Keys' to be found in the ancient scriptures ... to my own life in this incarnation in this body. They are written by me in the first person I. The moment I 'realised' that what I was looking for I already was, I broke down and cried like I have never cried before ... great gut-wrenching sobs. That was about 5 years ago. From that moment on, all that I read took on a new meaning ... I started to see metaphor after metaphor in all of the 'Keys' ... the story of my life of 49 years ... and all that I had been through from the moment of my conception to that moment I allowed myself to remember the truth of me .... JJ wrote: "For instance I notice these Why postings are showing up other places posted by different individuals as if some promoter is giving commands to post these things everywhere." The copies of these words on other lists under my name are posted there by me at the request of members of those lists, with the 'rider' that I will cease if requested to do so by the list operator/owner May I quote your own post, JJ "Matt 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, (the Internet) that was cast into the sea, (the peoples of the earth See Rev 17:15) and gathered of every kind: Matt 13:48 Which, when it was full, (When most are online) they drew to shore, (Many physically gathered from the Internet) and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, (Cities of Light) but cast the bad away. (those who do not have soul contact leave). Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the age: the messengers shall come forth, and sever the those in error from among the just, (the teachings of light will be rejected by those who are not ready) Matt 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Susi Alexander wrote: "Books increase our knowledge, Knowledge increases our understanding, Understanding increases our tolerance: (tol-er-ance) sympathy or indulgence for all that exists which differs or conflicts with one's own beliefs or practices!-inspired by the Creator written by SJA" In my humble opinion (IMHO), wisdom comes from the practical experience and application of knowledge in life. I can read all of the books (read quite a few), pass all of the examinations (who is the judge), have lots of letters after my name (I have not) ... but if I do not apply in my daily life all that I have learned, then I walk through life as a blind man who, even with a lamp in his hand, cannot see the road ... (Stanza 169 of The Tree of Wisdom of nag-ajuraca 100BCE) So you see, John, "Who knows, maybe this stuff will come alive." It is alive because I am living it ... but then (IHMO) what one reads never really 'comes alive' until such time as it resonates within the body and the body has some reaction ... as in the case of Xavier who reacted (against having her intrinsic birthright knowing made wrong by the dogma of religious teaching ... which I mirrored to her) and Jill who resonated with the awakening I had 5 years ago and felt that in her body ... JJ you wrote" "On the other hand, there are some who want to be a victim, want to complain and want to be depressed. Just as these people will turn your positive words into something negative, even so will they turn your positive love into something negative." If the words were not alive, then no-one would react or re-enact some past pattern of belief. So you see, "I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal" which is realising the purpose of my birth ... Hello, Rick ... they usually are really only semi-OT, in that they fit in with the general theme of what we are about. There has been so much feedback Rick, that I had to follow the path I have done with the automatic reply and setting up my own list ... this series arose in part from your comment to me ... I know about DNA memory and I don't think It covers everything we have talked about. There is a part of us that is higher than the DNA and uses it like a computer. It can even rewrite the program, if it so desires The part of us that is higher is the essence of us ... IMHO the DNA is merely the library of the physical history of the physical body this lifetime ... and as with the library, I pull out books and read them ... some I choose to live by, others I choose to reject. Of course, Fire can burn books (Alexandria was it JJ) ... just as the 'Divine Fire' can purify the DNA ... but first one has to acknowledge the library and its contents exists ... I glanced through my archives of this list to see if you were saying exactly what I was saying in different words ... Guess what: (Rick) An inner tube and a tire, side by side can not support more than a few hundred pounds without collapsing, but when they are one, inside the other, they will support the weight of a large vehicle. Of course, this only applies if there is contained 'air' inside the tube ... is not the air the essence of the tube? "A humble person is free of arrogance, snobbishness, selfishness, pride, boastfulness and self - satisfaction. Humility is not weakness. It is the result of strength, power and true personal completeness so that one need not feel the need to compete for a place in the sun. Meekness is the absence of anger, which stems from the feelings of having complete control over one's environment. Humility is the knowledge of our own shortcomings, knowing that however great we may be, we are still a long way from being perfect." Which is what Xavier described: " To me it speaks about the whole humanity being clairvoyant, psychic, thus uncovering all secrets and lies. If you see the auras efficiently, no one can deceive you. If we all did, no black magician could survive on earth. When everyone is clairvoyant, and an astral traveler, there will be nothing that remains hidden" Humility comes from the wisdom of self acceptance ... the essence "I am" is the nexus of all pairs of opposites which exist only in my perception. My perfection comes from real-ising that I have not yet fully made that real in my physical body, and the moment I do, my physical body will no longer have a need for its own survival ... and I will be 'The Immortal' [Why ...?] is about one man's journey (mine) with a group of fellow travelers into the hidden realms of the remembering of our physical bodies to answer the question as to why we cannot accept what the 'Keys' tell us re already are ... "Behold I stand at the door and knock" But then, who said we need a key to unlock the door that is already open ..? as Zia wrote: "We are living the ideas expressed here. We have simply gathered through the use of the internet." I could continue along further with this but that would make for a very long post ... but you may choose to read, in the light of this, your own discussions on the Paths and Initiation ... Every path will eventually lead you back to the beginning ... where you started from ... yourself ... when as a child you first asked the question 'Why ...'? did you get the answer then ...?? So, I leave you with your own question ... Is [Why ... ?] really OT ... and thank you all for the opportunity to respond .... May I leave you with something I wrote in reply to a judgment I received from another list?? "A Diamond, a Ruby and an Emerald are perceived by most to be Jewels ... they have different colours, different properties, different energies ... and they evoke different reactions from the beholder .. some are warm, some are cold ... but each contains the same protons, neutrons and electrons held together in different structure by the same covelent bonds is the cut and polished stone more beautiful than that naturally occurring ... except in the perception of the beholder ... does the jewel synthesized in the laboratory have qualities differing from the stone found in nature ... except in the eye of the beholder ... could you tell the difference if you were not told? With respect Christopher Wynter, ..... Hobart, Tasmania Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-21/4519 From: Jill Subject: Re: The Three Preparations Hello JJ and all, Thank you Zia your posts put out a real feel good energy. As for Travis sorry you are having trouble. If my posts are causing problems then I apologise, I am a computer and internet innocent. John love your humour and yes I would have to agree with you about being a good looker saw your photo ;-] but with humour, insight and a wonderful depth :o] what a positive expression of God. "Question: Almost everyone believes they have pure intent. It is easy for us to see deceptive intent in others, but difficult to see it in ourselves. Why is this so and what can we do about it? What is the "blind spot" in the physical eye and is there a corresponding blind spot in our spiritual eyes? How can we see through the blind spot?" I think it has to do with our perceptions, thought patterns, emotions and feelings looking outward at our external environment. What we believe so we create, or what you sow, so shall you reap. The blind spot I am led to say is spiritual blindness and the closing of the connection to the true essence of God. To get through the blind spot takes truth-to look at ourselves honestly without blaming others for the way we are or our circumstances. Faith - praying to God and opening up the connection and believing unconditionally that God loves us and wants us to be truly happy and will provide. Trust - surrendering, leaving the details up to God and developing unconditional trust that God provides everything for us, nourishes, protects, presents solutions for us and trust that our prayers will be answered. Listening - stilling our minds so we can hear God speaking to us through meditation and contemplation. Recognition - Recognising when our prayers are answered and giving thanks and gratitude to God. "Question: Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples. Yes. There is positive and negative in everything. We can look at the teachings and we know which they are of by the qualities they develop in people that follow those beliefs. The negative in New Age Teachings develops the me (selfishness) first. People focus on themselves isolates and keeps people from connecting with another. In the Positive and only sense that I see, I see putting the self first as this: If God is love and God is within me, then that must be nurtured and strengthened first. When I am of complete strength in God's love then I am of benefit to all I encounter and I can give of myself freely without feeling tired, drained etc... What is interesting to me when viewing God is in our hearts, minds and soul (Jesus said that the laws of God will be planted in the hearts and minds of all) then the Commandments take on a new look Love God above all others Love each other as we would love ourselves Do not place any other Gods before me, do people treat others and externals like God's? Do people give these externals a false sense of power? Jesus did not give of himself 100% all the time because he gave to God first. So when I am giving love and nurture to myself I am giving to God because my body/self is the temple where God is housed. Also when we do nothing but Give 100% we don't allow others to Give or to share. I think it boils down to a time for Giving and a time of Accepting (receiving) with thanks and appreciation. On a positive loving intent when we spend time nurturing and feeding ourselves spiritually, lovingly I think we are in line with God's purpose. To conclude my answer to the question it all boils down to the intentions of an individual and the awareness of the root of the actions coming from the teachings. love, Jill I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal http://www.freeread.com The Love in me recognises the Love in you Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-21/4520 From: (Richards, Gary) Subject: Re: Note to Christopher. Hi Folks, "For something like you are posting I would suggest you put it in a web page and give us the address, but let us throw it out to the group. Does anyone find the "why" writings interesting enough to desire that the postings continue?" I'm with you on this one JJ. I couldn't get my mind around it and I didn't read it all. I haven't hit the delete button on this one but I probably will without ever reading it all. I would rather be told that such info is available and then decide if I want to go see it for myself. I personally would rather see the list keep it's focus on JJ's teachings and the relevant/appropriate responses to same. Love & Light Gary Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-21/4521 From: (Richards, Gary) Subject: Re: The Three Preparations Hi Again Folks, "(2) Seek to become pure in heart and become he who has pure intent." "Question: Almost everyone believes they have pure intent. It is easy for us to see deceptive intent in others, but difficult to see it in ourselves. Why is this so and what can we do about it? What is the "blind spot" in the physical eye and is there a corresponding blind spot in our spiritual eyes? How can we see through the blind spot?" This is so true in my life right now. I find I am questioning the real motives for what I am doing in per suing a court case right now and I know that there are some pure intentions behind it but I also know that there are some intentions of less purity. I also have thoughts about clients who haven't been too prompt in paying their bills lately and my thoughts have been none too pleasant. I certainly believe that we have a spiritual blind spot and I guess the/a way to see through it would be to try and view the situation through the other parties eyes. See and feel what they might see and feel and then check in with your own thoughts and feelings and see if they match. Also by looking at the end result of things we have done or are about to do and see if the results were/would provide spiritual growth for your self and/or the other party, if not, maybe there is a better to handling the situation, maybe we could help the other party to resolve the situation rather that try to beat them. All competition/struggle sets us up for a win/lose situation but it doesn't have to be that way. A better way is to win/win. "(3) Seek to look beyond the universe of Self and cause that your actions benefit the whole with the realization that the self will be more fully realized in the long run." "Question: Is the putting of Self first taught anywhere in new age philosophies as well as old time religion? Give examples." I have heard it said that if we look after ourselves, then we show others, by example, how things can be if they put their minds to it. e.g. Rather than help the poor by giving them handouts, we should just get rich and show by example how it can be done (yeah right!), I'm still working on that one. If we were to truly adopt this attitude, with the other peoples interest in mind then we would not be per suing selfish ends anyway so I am not sure if this does really answer JJ's question but I thought it was worth "throwing it into the ring" (is that from the 1500's JJ?). An example of this teaching that comes to mind is from Stuart Wilde. He is very blunt and up front about it, he says look after yourself, stuff every one else. Love & Light Gary Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-21/4522 From: Doreen Esberk Subject: Re: Note to Christopher. Hello everyone. I am Doreen and I have been reading both the Why messages and have looked over the website. A few things caught my attention that I would like to share. At first I was sort of wondering why this info showed up on the Keys list. So.... I went to the site....and.... to be truthful read everything on it. There are some wonderful things about Christopher's writing. First, I noticed that as I continued to read that suddenly I was no longer comparing the message to all of the other messages I have read in my life. I have studied the Indian, Tibetan, Christian and a lot of other religions. I like the fact that I could just " relate personally" to what was being given. One of my favorite writers is Hazrat Inyat Khan who is a Sufi Mystic. I noticed... that I felt the "vibes" that were offered and I did not have to "identify"" the source. I really liked that. I was free to just enjoy the osmosis. That was so refreshing for me. I have also noticed that almost everyone on the list has responded in such a kind way. I take my hat off to all of you. Instead of just hitting the delete button everyone had such a sweet attitude of openness. I, for one would like to see them continue. I probably do not have a vote as I am such a lurker. Yet, I sense that there are "keys" given here...and after all...isn't that what we are all looking for. So, I vote yes to continuing and am enjoy