1999 - WEEK 19 Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4368 From: "cneyt "zbek" Subject: advice!!!! Dear List members, We don't know each other.I had sent a similar e-mail. But unfortunately I couldn't get any answer. My name is Cneyt (tm)ZBEK.I am a male 33 years old and father of three sons. In Turkey people just ignore such subjects. Especially in my city called Diyarbak_r(The most problomatic city in Turkey it has been governed by a martial law for almost 2 decades since there is a war going on between PKK and Turkish State). Even there is a few books on these subjects. So Internet is a very powerful instrument in having information and in appeasing my loneliness. I want to train myself on these subjects below. I need your recommendations. Just give me the names of your favourite books on these subject and relevant websites on self remembering. If the subject doesn't apply to you just leave it. Please don't tell me to look in my within since I am not educated enough. It's "Parroted" .It is an EGO-BASED and cruel idea to tell someone to look in his/her within without being aware of the conditions and the capabilities of the other person. But I know in the end I will have to look in my within but I am just not ready for it. Can you please explain what is "being Who we are at the moment" or "self remembering" since we don't know exactly Who we are?. Does it mean that we must be as an observation center at the moment? Just an observer nothing more. Then we don't have to be restless about being quiet, compassionate, lovable, merciful etc. We must not force ourselves If we don't spontaneously feel these divine feelings at the moment. If emotions come that is OK. If they don't that is also OK. We must be aware that we are an observer and remain aware. Does it mean that? And then once we are quiet will things begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on our part. is it the way? COMMENT???? Subject1:HOW TO LIVE IN THE PRESENT? I find meditation boring. For me self remembering is more practical. I don't want to live by memory. I want to see the world as it is, a momentary appearance in consciousness. I want to be a thing focused in the now. I think to do this one must detach himself from all that makes one's mind restless. Subject2:HOW TO FOSTER ONENESS IN MY MIND? I want to love the people in the street as much as myself. I know only then I can be completely Non-judgmental. Since individualism is being fostered in our society and culture it is very difficult. Subject 3:SACRED SEXUALITY Love CUNO(Your brother in Turkey) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4369 From: J J Dewey Subject: Reincarnation Part II WHATSOEVER A MAN SOWETH Paul tells us plainly that all will not attain the resurrection of life. He said "the wages of sin is death". When we sin we need correction so we are sent to the resurrection of KRISIS where we are again in mortal bodies subjected to death. Paul further said: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God (sin), him shall God DESTROY; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." I Cor 3:16- 17. Those who continue to sin and suffer the resurrection of KRISIS are reborn and live a mortal existence where their temple of God (their body) dies or is destroyed. Interestingly "destroy" comes from the Greek PHTHIO which means "to waste, spoil, or decay". That certainly describes the mortality we experience in the resurrection of KRISIS. It is only fitting that Paul said that "the last enemy to be destroyed is death." I Cor 15:26. This is because we are born again and again into the resurrection of KRISIS until we have corrected all of our mistakes. The very last correction we make is when we overcome death and "put on immortality". Jesus admonished us to follow in his footsteps: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, EVEN AS I ALSO OVERCAME, and am sat down with the Father in his throne." Rev. 3:21 If we are to overcome as did Jesus then we must obey the injunction: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48 I do not know of even one person who has attained perfection and overcome all things as did Jesus. Consequently, the only way the scriptures can be fulfilled is for one to be physically born again until he can live a life without sin just as Jesus did. Those in the kingdom of man must literally be "born again" to enter the kingdom of God. When that happens the promise will be fulfilled where Jesus said: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and HE SHALL GO NO MORE OUT." Rev. 3:12 We will have to "go no more out" of one physical body into another- one when we have overcome all things. Until that time Jesus tells us that "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, (of physical bodies), and find pasture." John 10:9. After we go in and out and find pasture the time will come when: "he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I GIVE POWER OVER THE NATIONS: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER." Rev. 2:26-27 These scriptures we have quoted make it very clear that there are two resurrections. We enter the resurrection of KRISIS each time we fall short of the glory of Christ. When this happens God causes our bodies to be destroyed. He asks us to "overcome" "even as I overcame". Obviously we cannot overcome AS he did unless we will eventually live a perfect life as he did on the Earth. Jesus said that we will do "greater works" than he did. John 14:12. To this day I know of no one who has done greater works than Jesus, but when the time comes that some of us are living our last life to "attain" the resurrection of life, then will the world see these greater works. At that time we will come to the "knowledge of the Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT MAN, unto the-measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Eph 4:13. When one becomes "a perfect man" he then receives "power over the nations" as promised. Reincarnation is merely the result of the law of cause and effect as pointed out by Paul: 'if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that SHALL HE ALSO REAP. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh REAP CORRUPTION (the resurrection of KRISIS or rebirth in mortality); but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING" (or the resurrection of life).. Gal 6:3-6. Again we have here a vivid description of the two resurrections. The word "corruption" here comes from the Greek PHTHORA which is derived from PHTHEIRO the word that is used when Paul said that God shall "destroy" the defiled temples. PHTHORA indicates a state of "decay". Thus Paul is simply telling us over and over again that if our mind is centered on carnal things we will return not to some state of immortality, but will "reap corruption" or decay. Paul even goes so far as to warn us to not be deceived for God is not mocked on this matter. He further says that "flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither doeth corrruption (obviously referred t here as flesh and blood) inherit incorruption." I Cor 15:50. Here the "corruption" that we reap is, identified as "flesh and blood". This is only logical since all flesh and blood is proceeding toward death and decay. After all Paul said that the corruption would be reaped "of the flesh". Since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God that simply means that if we fall short of it we will be "born again" in this state of "corruption" or flesh and blood. Flesh and blood is the resurrection of KRISIS and we must come back again and a gain and inherit this corruption until we have "corrected" all of our mistakes and attain the resurrection of life or "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Eph 4:13 Jesus was subtly referring to the resurrection of KRISIS when he said: "Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing." Matt 5:26 No orthodox Christian has ever answered this question: If we reap according to how we have sowed and if we "of the flesh reap corruption" and we die before we have reaped all that is due us, then how can we reap "of the flesh" with no flesh? How can we reap corruption if there is no corruption? The only answer is reincarnation. We must return to mortality if we are to reap corruption in the flesh. Is there another way to fulfill the scripture without mocking God? Verily no. The principle of reaping as we sow is repeated many times in the Bible. Jesus said: "ALL they that take the sword shall PERISH with the sword." Matt 26:52. Now it is obvious that many people in history have slain with the sword, yet died a peaceful death. Why then did Jesus use the word "all"? Why did he say these words to Peter in an effort to get him to put away his sword and cease his attack on the angry mob? Obviously, if Peter went forth and killed with the sword then he would have to reap what he sowed and come back (even if it was a future life) and reap destruction by a sword or some similar destructive weapon. This is confirmed in the thirteenth chapter of Revelations where we are told about the Anti- Christ who will slay all those who will not worship his image and will have power over the Saints. Here the saints are told why they must suffer: "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword MUST be killed with the sword. HERE IS THE PATIENCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS." Rev 13:10 In other words, the reason the patience and the faith of the saints is tested so is because of mistakes they made in past lives. In previous lives they killed with the sword as Peter wanted to do. They also lead others into captivity even as did Paul before his conversion. Thus when the saints are persecuted they are often reaping what they have sowed in previous lives. This answers the eternal question as to why some of the best people must suffer so. They are paying off debts from a past era when they were not so good. When one becomes a disciple of Christ he must pay the "utter most farthing", for Jesus said: "Everyone shall be salted with fire." Mark 9:49 This principle was further emphasized by the Lord's own mouth to Noah: "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN SHALL HIS BLOOD BE SHED: for in the image of God made he man." Gen 9:5-6 Of course, there have been many who have shed blood who have not reaped what they have sowed. But remember "God will not be mocked" and let the person escape the punishment he has decreed. He will be reborn and "of the flesh" reap his just reward with interest. ~ The principle of rebirth also helps us to understand the dialog that God had with Cain: [God said to Cain:] "A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth... [And Cain said:] I shall be a fugitive and vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that everyone that findeth me shall slay me." Gen 4:12-14 Notice here that Cain expects to be slain more than once. Also study the Lord's response: "And the Lord said unto him, therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him SEVENFOLD. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." Gen 4:15 There are several things that do not make sense here without re incarnation. First, Cain was told he would be a fugitive and vagabond in the earth, but instead the scripture tells us that he settled in the land of Nod and built a city named Enoch. (See Gen 4:16-17) It sounds as if Cain was fairly settled in that life. One would have to stretch the imagination to call him a fugitive and vagabond in the earth so how could the decree of God be fulfilled? Reincarnation is a possible answer. It's quite probable that Cain has been reborn a number of times and has been a vagabond in the earth more than once. Cain also made the interesting statement: "Everyone, that findeth me shall slay me." indicating he expected to be slain more than once. But the scriptures give no indication that Cain died other than a natural death in that life. Finally we are told that whoever kills Cain will have vengeance taken on him "sevenfold". The question arises: How do you take seven fold vengeance on murder? If a killer is put to death then the vengeance is merely onefold; yet, short of torture, that is the worst punishment that can be inflicted. Taking this into consideration how else can the Lord take vengeance "sevenfold" on murder unless the man gives his life seven times? In other words, if a man kills Cain, or possibly one of his descendants, thinking he deserves it then he would have to forfeit his life in seven different lifetimes to pay for the deed. That seems like a stiff punishment, but we probably do not know the whole story here. We are told that a terrible reaping will be given out to those who change the revelations of God: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book (the book of Revelations), If any man shall add unto these things, God shall ADD unto him THE PLAGUES that are written in this book. Rev. 22:18 Now for an interesting question... Why did John warn those in the first century that if they added extra words to his book that they would suffer the plagues, which plagues would not come upon the earth for another two thousand years? How could a scribe living in the first century (who commits the sin of adding words to John's book) suffer the plagues unless he were here reborn thousands of years later? The plagues from the book of Revelation include such things as men dying of waters that are polluted, men being killed by the symbolic beast, men being scorched by the heat of the sun. people receiving sores over their bodies and numerous others. How could a person from the first century possibly receive these physical plagues unless he is here, born again in a physical body??? We also find that those who have shed the blood of saints and the prophets in past ages will come back and suffer the plagues: "And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and upon the fountains of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. FOR THEY HAVE SHED THE BLOOD OF SAINTS AND PROPHETS, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Rev. 16:4-6 It seems only fair that those who have shed the blood of the prophets through the ages will have to come back and reap the harvest of their deeds by drinking blood in a future lifetime. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4370 From: J J Dewey Subject: I'm Back I'm back my friends and will post more soon. Meanwhile I'm posting the second installment on Reincarnation. I want to welcome Cuno from Turkey. You've given us a lot to chew on. I would suggest that you ask one question at a time. Then the group can cover it more thoroughly for you. If you have not yet read The Immortal you can download it free at www.freeread.com. That may answer some of your questions. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4371 From: "Jennifer Hampson" Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-05-10 of The Keys of Knowledge List Dear Cuno, I spent time in Turkey in the early 70's and found it the most wonderful place in all my travels. It saddens me to think of it war-torn. The Turkish people I met were so very welcoming. So it is with great warmth that I welcome you to the List. I am not sure if I have cottoned on to what you mean by self-remembering, but some of the best books I've read that come immediately to mind are:- The Immortal by JJ Initiation by Elisabeth Haich The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho Illusions by Richard Bach JJ has recently asked people to post their favourite relevant websites to him because he plans to put links to other websites on The Immortal homepage. This might provide you with just what you are looking for. You wrote.... "We must not force ourselves If we don't spontaneously feel these divine feelings at the moment. If emotions come that is OK. If they don't that is also OK. We must be aware that we are an observer and remain aware. Does it mean that? And then once we are quiet will things begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on our part. is it the way?" That sounds pretty right to me. Certainly when I have tried to force or push or be impatient to experience "divine feelings" I have tended to push them away. Also I'd just clarify that I do not think "divine feelings" or spiritual experiences are emotions. Sure we HAVE emotions but who we are is far more than our emotions alone. There may be emotions associated with spiritual experiences but they are not the whole story. Mark Twain said, "All true emotion is involuntary". It is when I am being the detached observer (detached from emotions and ego, having them but not being run by them) and when I am relaxed, at peace and still within, that I find I am more likely to have a consciousness-expanding experience. To me it is a bit like putting myself in the optimal environment for such things to take place. For example if I want to get bitten by a mosquito I would go to a swamp because it would increase my chances of it occurring! If I want to have a spiritual or psychic experience, I do the things that increase my chance of it occurring. One such helpful thing is participating in this list and reading what JJ and the others have got to say. You wrote: "Subject1:HOW TO LIVE IN THE PRESENT? I find meditation boring. For me self remembering is more practical. I don't want to live by memory. I want to see the world as it is,a momentary appearance in consciousness. I want to be a thing focused in the now. I think to do this one must detach himself from all that makes one's mind restless." I want this too. But if self "remembering" is involved then I would have thought that meant operating in the past and that would not help me to be present to the 'now'. You wrote "Subject2: HOW TO FOSTER ONENESS IN MY MIND? I want to love the people in the street as much as myself. I know only then I can be completely Non-judgmental. Since individualism is being fostered in our society and culture it is very difficult." Again I agree. For a discussion on exercising judgment vs being judgmental see one of JJ's postings in the last fortnight. To combat individualism I have tried the following:- 1. notice all the ways in which I am connected to others and nature, for example by appreciating that the food I have on my table has been grown by someone, made by someone, transported by someone, sold by someone - a whole network involved to get it to where it is now, on my plate. 2. 'empathizing' with others, trying to feel and understand what it is like to be them. 3. in relationships, of whatever kind be it work, partner, family etc. doing my best to look from the point of view of what is best for "us" as a single entity, not 'me'. A trivial example is if I like a particular lounge suite and my (hypothetical) husband does not, then we do not buy it. We wait and find something that we both like, that is an expression of the 'us'. Thinking from the point of view of 'us' rather than of 'he' and 'I' fosters a oneness. 4. realising the commonalities far outweigh the differences between human beings. 5. seeing God in everything and everyone and self, and relating to the God in them and not to the other stuff, then you cannot help but be in a state of love with all creation. 6. imagining myself as far bigger than just what is contained within my physical body. We are used to seeing our hand as a part of us, as being one with us, but imagining seeing the limits of ourselves as being the house we live in and ourselves as being all that is in it, then expanding to being the street, then the town and all its inhabitants etc right out as far as the planet. When I visualise this I realise that anything that anyone on the planet does or says affects me because it IS me. I get a sense of being responsible for everything that happens in my world. If it is in my world, then I am responsible for it because I AM it. I just expand my world. You wrote: "Subject 3:SACRED SEXUALITY" I just read John-Roger's book, Relationships - The Art of Making Life Work and like very much what it had to say. For more explicit tantric or Taoist sexual practices which address the process of linking sexual energy and transcendent states of consciousness, Mantak Chia's books are pretty good. It's been nice talking to you! Love from Jennifer Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4372 From: Marylin Subject: Re: advice!!!! Cuno writes: 'Subject2:HOW TO FOSTER ONENESS IN MY MIND? I want to love the people in the street as much as myself. I know only then I can be completely Non-judgmental. Since individualism is being fostered in our society and culture it is very difficult." Hello Cuno Welcome to the list. You are loved and you are not alone. It occurred to me how to give you a 3rd dimensional idea of "oneness". Maybe it will help you. Samu has also been giving some good material on this. Rather than going way back to atoms, let's start with you, in person. You are you, or as we say sometimes, me, myself and I. Me, Myself and I are three, but we are One. Now, think of living in a house with a brother. You are individuals, but you are also as one under the same roof. That roof is an individual roof in a town with more individual roofs, hence all the roofs are individual but also one inside the town as it takes more than one to make a town. The town in an individual in a country with more individual towns. Thus they are one in that a country is usually made up of more than one town. The country is an individual on a continent with more individual countries, thus they are one within the continent. Again, the continent is an individual among more individual continents all residing on the Earth. Earth is One so the continents are also one on the earth. This could go on, and on, and on, but I promised to stay within the 3rd dimension. Hope this gives you some help in picturing the Oneness we talk about. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4373 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: advice!!!! Cuno, Let be among those who welcome you to the list. I'm glad you've joined us. Jennifer seems to have given some rather insightful answers to your questions, and I can't add much to what she has said. But I will offer you this. A very good place to start when questions arise that you have no answer for is to "Be still, and know that I am God". A simple verse from the bible that can transform you're whole being, if you allow it to. The way I have seen this occur is by seeing the two sides of the verse. On one hand you have "be still". This could be done most effectively through meditation. And perhaps the reason that meditation is boring for you has something to do with your unanswered questions. What I mean here is that if you have questions, the natural drive from within is to GET SOME ANSWERS. Of course if you are actively asking the question, you are not being still. But this is where the second part of the verse comes in. "....,and know that I am God". The questions may bounce around inside of you for a long time until you realize that God is. And that for EVERY question, there is already an answer. That answer is embodied within God. Now, knowing that God is, and that every answer is embodied within God, look again at the verse, Be still (quiet your mind and drop your questions), and KNOW that I am God (within God are all questions answered, implying full KNOWledge). This simple little equation has helped me in more ways than I can count. It's all about not relying on flesh and blood for our strength/knowledge/ answers/etc., but rather to still our mind and to RECEIVE from the One God all of our answers. All in their due time and all in their appropriate way. Or perhaps I will put it this way. All people trust God. Some trust God to be good, while others trust Him to be cruel. Some trust that He is willing to give answers, while still others trust that He does not. When I become still and center on who I know God to be (in my case God is good and answers questions, etc.) I find my questions being answered before I can ask them. This is how it has gone with me. All of this has come from the old saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". So I say, keep on casting the net. It will be filled! But in the meantime, welcome to the banquet of the keys list. Sit and enjoy all of the fine food and wine of this family of folks. And as you find new recipes, add it to the table. We're always happy to include new food at this smorgasbord. :o) Wishing You Good Fishing, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4374 From: J J Dewey Subject: Sending Love Questions are arising anew about the sending of love. Is it possible that in some circumstances a negative backlash could happen? When we last covered this there seemed to be fairly unanimous acceptance that this could be so, but we now have some new readers and perhaps a further explanation is necessary. First, it is important to realize that all energies, including Love, is neither positive or negative. How it is used determines the end result. Sending love and positive energy to anyone who interprets the direction of this energy in the normal sense will generally produce a positive result. For instance, if you have a friend who is depressed or troubled and you send him positive energy and love, the energy will generally cause some lifting of the negativity. This will be the case if the person has some desire to experience normal good feelings and love. Fortunately, most people who are depressed do not want to stay depressed and would welcome some relief. On the other hand, there are some who want to be a victim, want to complain and want to be depressed. Just as these people will turn your positive words into something negative, even so will they turn your positive love into something negative. They key is this. When you send positive energy and love to another in this condition and you are having a positive effect you will be able to sense it. If you do not sense that you are lifting the negativity then it is best to send no energy. I have been in circumstances where I have sent love to certain ones and the energy greatly increased their negativity. The wise disciple will sense this circumstance in advance and perceive whether or not the energy is going to work and transmit accordingly. Anni spoke correctly when she mentioned that love sent to the Dark Brothers could have a negative effect. This is true, but the person does not have to be a Dark Brother. He or she merely has to be tapped in an illusion. And what kind of illusion is that which could cause one to use love for evil? Let us use Hitler again as an extreme example. We must realize that Hitler and most others who do what we consider evil deeds do so not because they are just evil or mean in spirit. Instead, many do so out of love. BUT it is their illusionary view of love that is the motive. In Hitler's mind, he loved his country and the world. He saw the Jews as an great enemy of peace, progress and God's will. Even though it may have been distasteful, even for him, he considered it an ultimate act of love to destroy the Jews. In his mind it was like us destroying a virus to heal the body. Now sending love to a person in this illusion will NOT change the illusion. Therefore when a person in illusion receives love it merely energizes his power and will to carry out love BY HIS DEFINITION. The fortunate thing is that by far the majority of the people use love in a much more positive direction than negative, though all have some illusions. Therefore, almost all people benefit through the reception of love. But if we see a world leader who has an illusionary view of love we need to be extremely cautious about sending this force to him or her, else he will use it to further his illusions. The war in Kosovo is a good example of love directed by illusion. Before we attacked a sovereign nation the death rate through murder there was about the same as we have had in Washington DC. After we started the war (motivated by love) the death rate is now beyond calculation and there is around a million refugees. Is this what love is supposed to produce? Suppose France had the idea that because of love they thought it was a good idea to invade Washington DC in order to decrease our murder rate. The intention may be good, but the illusion is great. Consequently the results will be very negative. Does this mean that we must be cautious in sending love out to the world as a whole? No. Humanity as a whole is a single living entity and as such has a general sense of the right direction that love is to take. Therefore, love sent out to the world as a whole will only aid the world in a positive direction. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4375 From: "Jill" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes Thank you Zia, Your writing reflects your inner beauty. I feel so touched and moved, what you sent to me was positive. I am a positive person and negative people in past have been drawn to me by a magnet which has been draining. I have been busy reflecting positive energy out, I took it away from reflecting it within and became lumbered with the negative energy. I am going to be alright and so is Dylan, actually we are perfect as we are and my life at present is what I created as I learnt my life lesson of fear and facing it. I am done with creating as I am now creation and have all the skills and information as I commune with God and watch my creation manifesting treasures of untold_ beauty. I focus now of only the present and the negative thoughts are now being laid to rest as I can concentrate to develop this love that I recently discovered was within me and attract loving people into my life. The world is a wonderous place because their are people in it like you That care and love. Thank you Zia To JJ, Thank you for your teaching about sending energy, I wish I would have known previously because I have had negativity sent to me. I am a positive person and what came through to me yesterday, went in to my soul from the list as I now have the emotional strength to move forward. I think it is important to think about others in times of their sorrows And offer love and support. Usually the person only wants more than a hug and to have someone hold their hand and know that they are loved when it doesn't feel that way. I think we have become a society of this is your shit deal with it as I have mine to deal with. It is a time for reaching out, not isolating and a time to laugh and love again and connecting as a community. Love, Jill I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal. http:/www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4376 From: "Heather S-K" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes "Gosh love with a human male can suck sometimes big time" Hey Jill, Whats happenning? I've been off-line for a few days? No Joy from Rashid? And Yes love with a human male can suck sometimes! :0) Want to come over for a cuppa?? It's 11am on Tuesday. Time for elevenses. :0) Your friend Heather....... Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4377 From: "Heather S-K" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes Oooops Sorry guys this was supposed to go to Jill not the list.....:0).......!! Pressed the wrong button!!....but.... if you'd all like to come for tea you'd be most welcome!!!! :0) Heather. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4378 From: J J Dewey Subject: Gathering 102 One of the greatest of the ancient prophecies is the Gathering. The sages of ages past have sought it and many have failed. Even Jesus lamented that he was not able to carry it out. He said: Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Jesus came with peaceable miracles and attempted to gather multitudes out of Israel, but they would not hear. In His heart He very much wanted to create a great leap in spiritual evolution through the gathering principle, but the time was not yet ripe. We are now fortunate to be living in an age where a spiritual gathering of lights is indeed possible. If it is successful heaven and earth shall be brought together, first at a point, then at points and finally many points and communities. When this happens the miraculous will be common place and communion with the higher spheres will be based in reality instead of illusion. In the beginning of the human race people gathered into families and finally into tribes. The tribe offered many benefits over individual struggle. This included protection from enemy tribes and greater success in gathering food. The second state of human gathering took place when the tribes gathered into kingdoms and were ruled by a central authority. Even though subjects were abused by the King, many of the tribes voluntarily sought to be a part of a kingdom because of the benefits. The standard of living increased, trade increased, learning increased and protection from the enemy increased. In the third stage of the human gathering there were many evolved souls that rebelled against the strong authority of a kingdom (or king) and sought greater freedom and a form of self rule. To make way for this gathering a new land had to be discovered for anyone seeking to build a new nation in the midst of the present kingdoms would be destroyed before a gathering could begin. To make way for this third gathering a new land was discovered, which was, of course, the Western Hemisphere, more particularly America. After this discovery the new country became a magnet for people who sought a better way of life and more freedom. As these lights gathered in America they found that the old system of the Kingdoms was too restricting and no longer satisfying. It was not long before the thinkers among them put their heads together and created a better system of self government with greater participation of the common people. Now we are approaching the time of the fourth gathering. The place and the means will soon be revealed. The results of the fourth gathering will bring many great changes in our evolution. Her are some of them. 1. Greater contact with the spiritual planes 2. A shift from competitive enterprise and commerce to a more cooperative one. 3. Greater financial abundance for all. 4. A shift from representative government to democracy with a greater involvement of the people. 5. Those who are leaders will be the greater lights rather than the greater personality. 6. Much greater health and vitality of the populace. 7. Quantum improvements in education 8. The creation of a new and higher life form through the Molecular Relationship. As I said we will cover the gathering in greater detail later but first we shall move on to the Molecular Relationship. You have probably heard the adage "as above so below" and "as below so above." In the evolution of the molecules, atoms gathered into certain positions and relationships and created a substance greater than themselves, yet did not lose their identity. For instance hydrogen and oxygen in a separate condition are ingredients of rocket fuel. But when two atoms of hydrogen combine with one atom of oxygen something amazing happens. A new more evolved substance is produced which is water. The interesting thing about water is that it is totally different than oxygen or hydrogen in the separate condition. Water is a higher grade of substance more capable of benefiting higher lives than hydrogen or oxygen alone. The interesting thing is that even though oxygen and hydrogen are now a part of a higher substance and share the properties thereof, they still keep their identity and maintain the capacity to separate and go back to their original isolated position. Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us? Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4379 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Gathering 102 J J Dewey wrote: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" Hey Folks, Well, this may not be the type or example that we're looking for, but it's one I think has need of discussion. At least it does for me. These verses are most likely familiar to some of you. Gen 11:1-9 1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." 8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel-- because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth. (NIV) Now whether we consider this as historical or archetypal, it does appear to be an example of a gathering. Though apparently it was not a good one. My question is this. How is the gathering in this city called Babel different from the gathering we are looking for now called the gathering of lights? I can see some differences and some similarities, but I'd rather lay this out there for others to consider. There's a lot said in those nine verses. I'd like to hear what JJ and the rest of you see when you read this. Happy Contemplation! :o) John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4380 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: Gathering 102 John Kosior writes: "There's a lot said in those nine verses. I'd like to hear what JJ and the rest of you see when you read this. Happy Contemplation! :o)" Well it makes me think about YHVH and the Elohim:-) Meaning the bad E.T.s that enslaved and created the humans. I don't buy that theory, but it is what comes to my mind when I read this Babel's passage. (for lack of a better view) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4381 From: Susi Subject: Re: Gathering 102 JJ Dewey Wrote: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" 1)Yes, 2) Yes but it has been forgotten or not yet learned by our civilization, and 3) a convergence of science, nature, and consciousness among other things. Do I think it is possible, absolutely we are working on this as I speak and I am certain that you Mr. Dewey will be involved. Has it been done before... from what I have seen it has but I do not feel it has been done on this planet. What properties...levitation, peace, tolerance, less waste, less emphasis placed on ones ego and generally a much happier, healthier, wealthier and wise species of human which translates the same to our planet and ultimately to all that exists or ever will. One more comment if you will allow...I am new here well a lurker and since I could not correspond directly although I guess I could have gone to your web site I would like to compliment you on your book "The Immortal" you sent this to me through my company and I have it saved to eventually add to my list of available items. I picked it up and could not put it down this was several months ago.....Thank you! Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4382 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Tower of Babel Welcome Susi. Nice web site. Yes the Molecular Relationship has been accomplished on some other worlds and also exists among the Masters on this one. John wants to know my opinion about the gathering at the tower of Babel. There is a key verse illustrating the principle of the gathering in this story: "The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them." The people gathered in one place and had one language and this caused that all things became possible for them. There is a legend of that period the Gods were jealous of man so they scattered him so he could not compete with them Another interpretation is that they were building a spacecraft to "reach heaven" and man was not yet ready for this. One thing that illustrates the power of the gathering is the development of the Atomic Bomb. This was created by the gathering together in one place of the greatest scientists in the world. The standard interpretation is that the tower of Babel took man's attention away from God, that they should reach heaven through God and not through other means. It also showed a lack of faith in God's promise to not flood the earth again. There is another gathering mentioned in the Bible approved by God and that was the gathering of the Israelites out of Egypt. As we read this was accompanied by numerous miracles. The gathering was not very successful because the higher teachings that Moses brought down were destroyed because the people were not ready for them Now the Bible predicts that a similar occurrence shall occur again on a higher level and the great miracles and occurrences shall be repeated again in our age with some differences. This time the people will be ready for the higher teachings. Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race? Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4383 From: Susi Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel "Now the Bible predicts that a similar occurrence shall occur again on a higher level and the great miracles and occurrences shall be repeated again in our age with some differences. This time the people will be ready for the higher teachings." Yes, I have been anticipating this my entire life and feel it is so close now. I can't wait......but then again patience is a virtue so I will wait until the absolute time is correct and hope that I am included in this magnificent event. Although this if for everyone and everything, there will be teachers. "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Well I am not schooled per say beyond 12th grade and do not follow the media or history much but wouldn't The Geniva Peace Conference and the introduction of NATO be two of the major events that have STIMULATED (key word) the evolution of raising our consciousness.....(race? what race?) ;-) Thank you for the compliment and I think I'll probably go back to lurking now unless you happen to say something else that I just can't resist answering. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4384 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Re: Gathering 102 J J Dewey writes: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" The reason this post strikes such a cord with me, is because of a dream I had (and my Father- in-law) back in August '97. In my dream, I fell asleep on Aug. 11, 1997, and woke up Aug. 11, 1998. My memory of the past year had been completely erased. I found myself in the midst of a wonderful group of people who had gathered together for self-protection, and reached a state of consciousness and oneness never before seen on Earth. The world was in a state of war, but all over the world there were these gatherings. I've since come to call them 'Cities of Light'. My Father-In-Law had a similar dream in which he was taken a tour of the Earth many years into the future. He was amazed to see that the Earth had been covered in a veil of darkness, except for certain areas that appeared as pillars of light. Areas where people had gathered together in the name of God and light. I'm not sure if this has occurred on Earth yet, but if it has, it would be the city of Enoch. (I hope that's right..) I'm positive, however, this will occur on Earth in the future. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4385 From: "David Curtis" Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel J J Dewey writes: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Ghandi. Promoted the idea of peaceful protests. The Constitution. Gave the people the power to rule themselves. Those are just two examples I can think of right now. - Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4386 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" How about the introduction of agriculture. You can't get a very large gathering without the farming biz. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4387 From: (Richard/ Sharon) Subject: Gathering Thank you ,John, Your posting has given me a lot of food for thought, which is really remarkable, since I am not what you would call a Deep Thinker. All my life information and insights have flowed (for want of a better word) into me and has been absorbed as naturally as breathing, which could explain why earth has never "felt" like ,my home. Your words about the Tower of Babel have caused me to speculate that speaking the same (verbal) language is not what is truly meant, perhaps it is referring to all humanity coming to the same consciousness (i.e. language). Then truly Nothing is impossible. love & blessings to you all sharon Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4388 From: J J Dewey Subject: Reincarnation Part III It's quiet out there. Hope someone is alive enough to read this. PROOF THAT MAN EXISTED BEFORE BIRTH The orthodox Christian believes that man began at birth, but after that point in time he will live on endlessly never dying again. In other words, before birth for every person there is a total blank. He was nothing. He did not exist. To begin with this is a mathematical impossibility. If a line has a beginning and no end then it extends in to infinity. Every mathematics class teaches that one half of infinity is still infinity. In other words, if a thing has no end mathematically it has to have no beginning. Nothing exists in nature which has no end unless it had no beginning. Anything in nature that has a beginning can be proven to have an end. A ring provides a good example of this principle. It is circular and has no beginning and no ending point. On the other hand, if one puts a slit in it one will have both a beginning and an end. Nevertheless, it is impossible to cut or mold the ring in such a fashion as to produce an object with a beginning but no end. Such a form does not exist anywhere because one half of infinity is still infinity. Those who believe in reincarnation recognize the fact that the body of form we live in has both a beginning and an end, but there is within us an intelligent part of God that is one with God and never had a beginning or end. Paul talks about this and calls it "eternal" which would mean without beginning or end: "The things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (the physical body) were dissolved, we have a building of God, (our Spirits) an house not made with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens." II Cor 4:18; 5:1. Here we are clearly told that if the body were dissolved we will yet have an "eternal" house to live in, or that eternal part of ourselves we call the Spirit. If it is eternal as Paul says then it existed before birth for that which is everlasting has neither beginning or end. Paul tells us that this eternal part of us is connected with the Heavens. No wonder Jesus told us that "The kingdom of God is within". Paul mentions again this spirit: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, "whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether OUT OF THE BODY, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven." II Cor 12:2. Paul's out of body experience is really not that unusual for now that mankind has ceased burning out-of-the-ordinary persons at the stake people are talking more-about their spiritual experiences. Many who have experienced the near death state have re ported actually leaving their bodies in the spirit and returning with an accurate memory of all the conversations of the doctors and nurses. Some who have gone through this report that their spirit body is connected to their physical by a silver cord of great elasticity. Many believe that death occurs when this silver cord is severed. Interestingly, the Bible makes reference to this: "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel be broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall RETURN unto God who gave it." ECCL. 12:6-7 Evidently Solomon had knowledge of the silver cord which connects the spirit and body as well as the golden bowl which is a golden etheric life energy (invisible to the untrained eye) which ceases or is "broken" also at death. The broken pitcher and wheel describe a cessation of bodily functions. Next we are told that at death the spirit "returns" to God. One may object here and say that if there is reincarnation then why doesn't the spirit go to a new body. The objector forgets that there is always a resting space between lives and during this interim period the spirit returns to God. The word "return" here is a powerful proof for a premortal existence. If all that which is us began at birth how can we return to God? If orthodox Christian thought is true all we could return to would be nothingness. We can only return to God if we came from God and we can only come from the presence of God if we had some form of existence with him before birth. The scriptures reveal that the Lord knew numerous people before they were born. Concerning Jacob and Esau he said: "The Elder shall serve the younger." Gen 25:23 Eve said of Cain: "I have gotten a man FROM the Lord." Gen 4:1 Another good example comes from Jeremiah: "Then came the word of the Lord unto me saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jer 1:4-5 Concerning himself Isaiah said: "The Lord called me from (can be translated 'before') the womb; and from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name." Isa 49:1 Of John the Baptist it is written: "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." John 1:6 Evidently The Lord knew Paul before his birth for he said: "He (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." This was spoken before Paul began his work. Paul also wrote that God "set me apart from (or before) birth and called me through his grace." Gal 1:15 New English.We are told that the saints are written in "the book of life from the foundation of the world." Rev. 17:8 In addition we are supposed to be "In hope of eternal life which God who cannot lie promised BEFORE the world began." Titus 1:2 How did God promise eternal life to us before the world began if we were not there? It would be silly for God to make promises to nothingness. The scriptures seem to make it crystal clear that people existed, were called, ordained, and had promises made to them before they were born. It makes it amazing to see the objections that come forth. The objector says that Jeremiah and others were not in existence before they were born, but they were in God's mind like an architect has a building in his mind. Therefore, they feel it was like God "sanctified", "ordained", "knew", and "promised" to a blueprint. The argument sounds very weak to anyone who thinks about it. One doesn't have to "Wrest" the scriptures when he merely accepts them the way they read. The Bible gives us powerful evidence that Job was with God before he was born. In chapter 38 God is reprimanding Job for questioning his wisdom and sovereignty and reminds him of works and events which he is supposed to already be aware of. He tells Job that he will demand an answer of him evidently aware that Job should know the answer to the following: "Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding...When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy?" Job 38:4~6. Who are the "sons of God"? The scriptures give a clear answer. John the beloved said: "WE are the sons of God..." I John 3:2 It is only fitting that we should be called the "sons of God" for he is called the Father of our spirits in Heb 12:9 Paul also said: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that WE are the children of God." Rom. 8:16 Since Job was one of the sons of God and "ALL the sons of God shouted for joy" at the foundation of the earth then Job had to be there shouting for joy with them. Evidently, the sons of God (which included you and me) were rejoicing over the planet that was prepared for us to inhabit. Who are the "morning stars (that) sang together"? They were the lightbringers and the prophets to the people of earth with the Christ being at the head. Jesus said: "I AM ... the bright and morning star." Rev 22:16 Others will be given the morning star and evidently become morning stars them selves in a future round. (See Rev. 2:28) The writer of Proverbs gives us a definite confirmation that the sons of men were present at the foundation of the world. The voice speaking in the eighth chapter of Proverbs is identified as wisdom and understanding. In other words, the wisdom and understanding of God has always been in existence and Solomon writes of it as if it were an entity: "Doth not wisdom cry? and under standing put forth her voice?" After explaining some of the attributes of wisdom the writer emphasizes how long wisdom has been around and how eternal she is: "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: When he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: When he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; rejoicing in the habitable part of HIS EARTH; and my delights were WITH THE SONS OF MEN. " Prov 8:1,22-31. This scripture makes it clear that when God promised us "eternal life... before the world began" (Titus 1.2) that he was not merely speaking to blueprints, but the "sons of men" were with him in "the habitable part of HIS EARTH." Evidently, we dwelt on another earth in another time where the wisdom of God was manifested. Here the Bible clearly tells us that the sons of men are very ancient beings. Orthodox people will not like the above interpretation, but they can produce no argument against it. It must be frustrating for them to even read it. This Proverbs scripture, however, helps us understand numerous scriptures from the New Testament. For instance, Paul said: "For whom he did fore know he did predestinate." Peter said that the Saints were "elect according to the foreknowledge of God." Evidently God gained this "foreknowledge" of us "in the habitable part of his (God's) earth". Another powerful witness that we have had a pre-mortal existence comes from the eleventh chapter of Hebrews. This is a famous chapter on the faith of the prophets (the Morning Stars) on the promises of God. One of the most interesting promises God has made concerns the heavenly city of the New Jerusalem. In describing this city John said he "saw the holy city of the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband ( Jesus Christ). And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the TABERNACLE OF GOD is with men, and he shall dwell with them...And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Rev. 21:2-3,14 It's quite possible that the new Jerusalem is presently located "in the habitable part of his (God's) earth." The author of Hebrews tells the saints who presently dwell there' "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant." Heb. 12:22-24 From these verses we have quoted we find that the inhabitants of the heavenly city Sion (Zion) or the new Jerusalem are: (1) God (2) The twelve apostles (3) Jesus (4) Angels (5) The general assembly (6) The church of the firstborn (7) The spirits of just men made perfect. The question naturally arises as to how long the city of the New Jerusalem has been in existence and how long the various types of inhabitants have been there. Since the New Jerusalem in heaven is the habitation of God one would assume it is very ancient. One thing we know for sure is that it is older than Abraham for the scripture says: "He (Abraham) looked for a city which hath foundations (the twelve apostles of the Lamb), whose builder and maker is God." Heb. 11:10. Since Abraham was aware of the foundations of the city and the foundations had in them the "names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" it is natural to assume that the twelve apostles lived in the city from the days of Abraham or earlier. The writer of Hebrews tells us concretely that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara, Noah, Enoch, and Able all lived in the Heavenly New Jerusalem before they were born: "These (those just named) all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country ('country' is from the Greek PATRIS which literally means FATHERLAND and figuratively means: Heavenly Home) And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. (If they were looking for any country on the earth they would have had no trouble finding and returning to it). But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them A CITY." (The New Jerusalem) Heb. 11:13-16. This interesting scripture deserves a closer examination. First, the prophets are called "strangers and pilgrims on the earth." This is significant because both words imply that they originated somewhere else besides the earth. "Strangers" comes from the Greek XENOS and means "foreigner" or "alien". "Pilgrim" comes from PAREPIDEMOS and literally means "resident foreigner". No matter which translation one uses a previous existence is indicated here. For instance if a man were a stranger in New York it means he had an existence and residence in another city before he arrived there. The prophets are "strangers" on the earth; therefore, they lived somewhere else before they lived here. If a man is a foreigner or an alien in the United States then he had to have a true citizenship in another country before he arrived here. Therefore, if the prophets are foreigners or aliens on the earth, then their true citizenship belongs to another country that they originated from before they were born. The pilgrims who arrived at Plymouth Rock did not originate in America but came from a distant land. They had a pre-America existence. The prophets are called "Pilgrims on the earth" meaning that they had a "pre-mortal" existence. A pilgrim is a traveler who comes from somewhere else. The next verse makes it crystal clear that the choice of these words was no accident. We'll quote it using the more accurate translation of "fatherland" instead of "country": "For they that say such things (that they are strangers and pilgrims) declare plainly that they SEEK A FATHERLAND." Verse 14 It's amazing that this scripture is not universally accepted as proving that the prophets lived before they were born for the writer says that it is "declare(d) plainly" that those who say they are strangers and pilgrims on the earth are seeking a Fatherland, or an origination point that they could have only lived in before they were born. The next verse puts a seal on this point: "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country (fatherland) from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned." verse 15. In other words, if their originating country was on the earth they could have returned to it while in the flesh. They were in an unfortunate position in that they were citizens of a Father land that was not on the earth, and that they could only return to after they died. The next verse elaborates this: "But now they desire a better country, that is an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God for he hath prepared for them a city." (the New Jerusalem) Verse 16. The prophets all sought the day when the heavens and the earth would come together and their Fatherland, the New Jerusalem, would descend on the earth so the tabernacle of God would be with men, and the prophets would no longer be strangers and pilgrims on the earth. John talks of those whose names are "written in the book of life from the foundation of the world." Rev 17:8 Most probably these would be those who lived in the heavenly New Jerusalem since that time. Those who are true citizens of the city would have their names recorded there. This record could very well be the book of life, since the inhabitants thereof are living life most abundantly. Post No. keys-1: /1999-05-11/4389 From: J J Dewey Subject: Gathering Hint Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race? Hint: Alexander Library Camelot Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-10/4390 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: advice!!!! Cuno, Let be among those who welcome you to the list. I'm glad you've joined us. Jennifer seems to have given some rather insightful answers to your questions, and I can't add much to what she has said. But I will offer you this. A very good place to start when questions arise that you have no answer for is to "Be still, and know that I am God". A simple verse from the bible that can transform you're whole being, if you allow it to. The way I have seen this occur is by seeing the two sides of the verse. On one hand you have "be still". This could be done most effectively through meditation. And perhaps the reason that meditation is boring for you has something to do with your unanswered questions. What I mean here is that if you have questions, the natural drive from within is to GET SOME ANSWERS. Of course if you are actively asking the question, you are not being still. But this is where the second part of the verse comes in. "...., and know that I am God". The questions may bounce around inside of you for a long time until you realize that God is. And that for EVERY question, there is already an answer. That answer is embodied within God. Now, knowing that God is, and that every answer is embodied within God, look again at the verse, Be still (quiet your mind and drop your questions), and KNOW that I am God (within God are all questions answered, implying full KNOWledge). This simple little equation has helped me in more ways than I can count. It's all about not relying on flesh and blood for our strength/knowledge/answers/etc., but rather to still our mind and to RECEIVE from the One God all of our answers. All in their due time and all in their appropriate way. Or perhaps I will put it this way. All people trust God. Some trust God to be good, while others trust Him to be cruel. Some trust that He is willing to give answers, while still others trust that He does not. When I become still and center on who I know God to be (in my case God is good and answers questions, etc.) I find my questions being answered before I can ask them. This is how it has gone with me. All of this has come from the old saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". So I say, keep on casting the net. It will be filled! But in the meantime, welcome to the banquet of the keys list. Sit and enjoy all of the fine food and wine of this family of folks. And as you find new recipes, add it to the table. We're always happy to include new food at this smorgasbord. :o) Wishing You Good Fishing, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4391 From: J J Dewey Subject: Sending Love Questions are arising anew about the sending of love. Is it possible that in some circumstances a negative backlash could happen? When we last covered this there seemed to be fairly unanimous acceptance that this could be so, but we now have some new readers and perhaps a further explanation is necessary. First, it is important to realize that all energies, including Love, is neither positive or negative. How it is used determines the end result. Sending love and positive energy to anyone who interprets the direction of this energy in the normal sense will generally produce a positive result. For instance, if you have a friend who is depressed or troubled and you send him positive energy and love, the energy will generally cause some lifting of the negativity. This will be the case if the person has some desire to experience normal good feelings and love. Fortunately, most people who are depressed do not want to stay depressed and would welcome some relief. On the other hand, there are some who want to be a victim, want to complain and want to be depressed. Just as these people will turn your positive words into something negative, even so will they turn your positive love into something negative. They key is this. When you send positive energy and love to another in this condition and you are having a positive effect you will be able to sense it. If you do not sense that you are lifting the negativity then it is best to send no energy. I have been in circumstances where I have sent love to certain ones and the energy greatly increased their negativity. The wise disciple will sense this circumstance in advance and perceive whether or not the energy is going to work and transmit accordingly. Anni spoke correctly when she mentioned that love sent to the Dark Brothers could have a negative effect. This is true, but the person does not have to be a Dark Brother. He or she merely has to be tapped in an illusion. And what kind of illusion is that which could cause one to use love for evil? Let us use Hitler again as an extreme example. We must realize that Hitler and most others who do what we consider evil deeds do so not because they are just evil or mean in spirit. Instead, many do so out of love. BUT it is their illusionary view of love that is the motive. In Hitler's mind, he loved his country and the world. He saw the Jews as a great enemy of peace, progress and God's will. Even though it may have been distasteful, even for him, he considered it an ultimate act of love to destroy the Jews. In his mind it was like us destroying a virus to heal the body. Now sending love to a person in this illusion will NOT change the illusion. Therefore when a person in illusion receives love it merely energizes his power and will to carry out love BY HIS DEFINITION. The fortunate thing is that by far the majority of the people use love in a much more positive direction than negative, though all have some illusions. Therefore, almost all people benefit through the reception of love. But if we see a world leader who has an illusionary view of love we need to be extremely cautious about sending this force to him or her, else he will use it to further his illusions. The war in Kosovo is a good example of love directed by illusion. Before we attacked a sovereign nation the death rate through murder there was about the same as we have had in Washington DC. After we started the war (motivated by love) the death rate is now beyond calculation and there is around a million refugees. Is this what love is supposed to produce? Suppose France had the idea that because of love they thought it was a good idea to invade Washington DC in order to decrease our murder rate. The intention may be good, but the illusion is great. Consequently the results will be very negative. Does this mean that we must be cautious in sending love out to the world as a whole? No. Humanity as a whole is a single living entity and as such has a general sense of the right direction that love is to take. Therefore, love sent out to the world as a whole will only aid the world in a positive direction. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4392 From: "Jill" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes Thank you Zia, Your writing reflects your inner beauty. I feel so touched and moved, what you sent to me was positive. I am a positive person and negative people in past have been drawn to me by a magnet which has been draining. I have been busy reflecting positive energy out, I took it away from reflecting it within and became lumbered with the negative energy. I am going to be alright and so is Dylan, actually we are perfect as we are and my life at present is what I created as I learnt my life lesson of fear and facing it. I am done with creating as I am now creation and have all the skills and information as I commune with God and watch my creation manifesting treasures of untold beauty. I focus now of only the present and the negative thoughts are now being laid to rest as I can concentrate to develop this love that I recently discovered was within me and attract loving people into my life. The world is a wonderous place because their are people in it like you that care and love. Thank you Zia To JJ, Thank you for your teaching about sending energy, I wish I would have known previously because I have had negativity sent to me. I am a positive person and what came through to me yesterday, went in to my soul from the list as I now have the emotional strength to move forward. I think it is important to think about others in times of their sorrows and offer love and support. Usually the person only wants more than a hug and to have someone hold their hand and know that they are loved when it doesn't feel that way. I think we have become a society of this is your shit deal with it as I have mine to deal with. It is a time for reaching out, not isolating and a time to laugh and love again and connecting as a community. Love, Jill I am becoming all I decide to become - JJ Dewey. The Immortal. http:/www.freeread.com Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4393 From: "Heather S-K" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes "Gosh love with a human male can suck sometimes big time" Hey Jill, What's happening? I've been off-line for a few days? No Joy from Rashid? And Yes love with a human male can suck sometimes! :0) Want to come over for a cuppa?? It's 11am on Tuesday. Time for elevenses. :0) Your friend Heather....... Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4394 From: "Heather S-K" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Wishes Oooops Sorry guys this was supposed to go to Jill not the list.....:0).......!! Pressed the wrong button!!....but.... if you'd all like to come for tea you'd be most welcome!!!! :0) Heather. Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4395 From: J J Dewey Subject: Gathering 102 One of the greatest of the ancient prophecies is the Gathering. The sages of ages past have sought it and many have failed. Even Jesus lamented that he was not able to carry it out. He said: Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Jesus came with peaceable miracles and attempted to gather multitudes out of Israel, but they would not hear. In His heart He very much wanted to create a great leap in spiritual evolution through the gathering principle, but the time was not yet ripe. We are now fortunate to be living in an age where a spiritual gathering of lights is indeed possible. If it is successful heaven and earth shall be brought together, first at a point, then at points and finally many points and communities. When this happens the miraculous will be common place and communion with the higher spheres will be based in reality instead of illusion. In the beginning of the human race people gathered into families and finally into tribes. The tribe offered many benefits over individual struggle. This included protection from enemy tribes and greater success in gathering food. The second state of human gathering took place when the tribes gathered into kingdoms and were ruled by a central authority. Even though subjects were abused by the King, many of the tribes voluntarily sought to be a part of a kingdom because of the benefits. The standard of living increased, trade increased, learning increased and protection from the enemy increased. In the third stage of the human gathering there were many evolved souls that rebelled against the strong authority of a kingdom (or king) and sought greater freedom and a form of self rule. To make way for this gathering a new land had to be discovered for anyone seeking to build a new nation in the midst of the present kingdoms would be destroyed before a gathering could begin. To make way for this third gathering a new land was discovered, which was, of course, the Western Hemisphere, more particularly America. After this discovery the new country became a magnet for people who sought a better way of life and more freedom. As these lights gathered in America they found that the old system of the Kingdoms was too restricting and no longer satisfying. It was not long before the thinkers among them put their heads together and created a better system of self government with greater participation of the common people. Now we are approaching the time of the fourth gathering. The place and the means will soon be revealed. The results of the fourth gathering will bring many great changes in our evolution. Her are some of them. 1. Greater contact with the spiritual planes 2. A shift from competitive enterprise and commerce to a more cooperative one. 3. Greater financial abundance for all. 4. A shift from representative government to democracy with a greater involvement of the people. 5. Those who are leaders will be the greater lights rather than the greater personality. 6. Much greater health and vitality of the populace. 7. Quantum improvements in education 8. The creation of a new and higher life form through the Molecular Relationship. As I said we will cover the gathering in greater detail later but first we shall move on to the Molecular Relationship. You have probably heard the adage "as above so below" and "as below so above." In the evolution of the molecules, atoms gathered into certain positions and relationships and created a substance greater than themselves, yet did not lose their identity. For instance hydrogen and oxygen in a separate condition are ingredients of rocket fuel. But when two atoms of hydrogen combine with one atom of oxygen something amazing happens. A new more evolved substance is produced which is water. The interesting thing about water is that it is totally different than oxygen or hydrogen in the separate condition. Water is a higher grade of substance more capable of benefiting higher lives than hydrogen or oxygen alone. The interesting thing is that even though oxygen and hydrogen are now a part of a higher substance and share the properties thereof, they still keep their identity and maintain the capacity to separate and go back to their original isolated position. Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us? Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4396 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Gathering 102 J J Dewey wrote: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" Hey Folks, Well, this may not be the type or example that we're looking for, but it's one I think has need of discussion. At least it does for me. These verses are most likely familiar to some of you. Gen 11:1-9 1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." 8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel-- because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth. (NIV) Now whether we consider this as historical or archetypal, it does appear to be an example of a gathering. Though apparently it was not a good one. My question is this. How is the gathering in this city called Babel different from the gathering we are looking for now called the gathering of lights? I can see some differences and some similarities, but I'd rather lay this out there for others to consider. There's a lot said in those nine verses. I'd like to hear what JJ and the rest of you see when you read this. Happy Contemplation! :o) John Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4397 From: "xavier" Subject: Re : Re: Gathering 102 John Kosior writes: "There's a lot said in those nine verses. I'd like to hear what JJ and the rest of you see when you read this. Happy Contemplation! :o)" Well it makes me think about YHVH and the Elohim:-) Meaning the bad E.T.s that enslaved and created the humans. I don't buy that theory, but it is what comes to my mind when I read this Babel's passage. (for lack of a better view) Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4398 From: Susi Subject: Re: Gathering 102 JJ Dewey Wrote: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" 1)Yes, 2) Yes but it has been forgotten or not yet learned by our civilization, and 3) a convergence of science, nature, and consciousness among other things. Do I think it is possible, absolutely we are working on this as I speak and I am certain that you Mr. Dewey will be involved. Has it been done before... from what I have seen it has but I do not feel it has been done on this planet. What properties...levitation, peace, tolerance, less waste, less emphasis placed on ones ego and generally a much happier, healthier, wealthier and wise species of human which translates the same to our planet and ultimately to all that exists or ever will. One more comment if you will allow...I am new here well a lurker and since I could not correspond directly although I guess I could have gone to your web site I would like to compliment you on your book "The Immortal" you sent this to me through my company and I have it saved to eventually add to my list of available items. I picked it up and could not put it down this was several months ago.....Thank you! Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4399 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Tower of Babel Welcome Susi. Nice web site. Yes the Molecular Relationship has been accomplished on some other worlds and also exists among the Masters on this one. John wants to know my opinion about the gathering at the tower of Babel. There is a key verse illustrating the principle of the gathering in this story: "The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them." The people gathered in one place and had one language and this caused that all things became possible for them. There is a legend of that period the Gods were jealous of man so they scattered him so he could not compete with them Another interpretation is that they were building a spacecraft to "reach heaven" and man was not yet ready for this. One thing that illustrates the power of the gathering is the development of the Atomic Bomb. This was created by the gathering together in one place of the greatest scientists in the world. The standard interpretation is that the tower of Babel took man's attention away from God, that they should reach heaven through God and not through other means. It also showed a lack of faith in God's promise to not flood the earth again. There is another gathering mentioned in the Bible approved by God and that was the gathering of the Israelites out of Egypt. As we read this was accompanied by numerous miracles. The gathering was not very successful because the higher teachings that Moses brought down were destroyed because the people were not ready for them Now the Bible predicts that a similar occurrence shall occur again on a higher level and the great miracles and occurrences shall be repeated again in our age with some differences. This time the people will be ready for the higher teachings. Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race? Post No. keys-l: /1999-05-11/4400 From: Susi Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel "Now the Bible predicts that a similar occurrence shall occur again on a higher level and the great miracles and occurrences shall be repeated again in our age with some differences. This time the people will be ready for the higher teachings." Yes, I have been anticipating this my entire life and feel it is so close now. I can't wait......but then again patience is a virtue so I will wait until the absolute time is correct and hope that I am included in this magnificent event. Although this if for everyone and everything, there will be teachers. "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Well I am not schooled per-say beyond 12th grade and do not follow the media or history much but wouldn't The Geneva Peace Conference and the introduction of NATO be two of the major events that have STIMULATED (key word) the evolution of raising our consciousness.....(race? what race?) ;-) Thank you for the compliment and I think I'll probably go back to lurking now unless you happen to say something else that I just can't resist answering. Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4401 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: Gathering 102 JJ Dewey wrote: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" The reason this post strikes such a cord with me, is because of a dream I had (and my Father- in-law) back in August '97. In my dream, I fell asleep on Aug. 11, 1997, and woke up Aug. 11, 1998. My memory of the past year had been completely erased. I found myself in the midst of a wonderful group of people who had gathered together for self-protection, and reached a state of consciousness and oneness never before seen on Earth. The world was in a state of war, but all over the world there were these gatherings. I've since come to call them 'Cities of Light'. My Father-In-Law had a similar dream in which he was taken a tour of the Earth many years into the future. He was amazed to see that the Earth had been covered in a veil of darkness, except for certain areas that appeared as pillars of light. Areas where people had gathered together in the name of God and light. I'm not sure if this has occurred on Earth yet, but if it has, it would be the city of Enoch. (I hope that's right..) I'm positive, however, this will occur on Earth in the future. - Dave Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4402 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel JJ Dewey wrote: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Ghandi. Promoted the idea of peaceful protests. The Constitution. Gave the people the power to rule themselves. Those are just two examples I can think of right now. - Dave Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4403 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel JJ wrote: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" How about the introduction of agriculture. You can't get a very large gathering without the farming biz. Rick Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4404 From: Richard/ Sharon Subject: Gathering Thank you ,John, Your posting has given me a lot of food for thought, which is really remarkable, since I am not what you would call a Deep Thinker. All my life information and insights have flowed (for want of a better word) into me and has been absorbed as naturally as breathing, which could explain why earth has never "felt" like my home. Your words about the Tower of Babel have caused me to speculate that speaking the same (verbal) language is not what is truly meant, perhaps it is referring to all humanity coming to the same consciousness (i.e. language). Then truly Nothing is impossible. love & blessings to you all sharon Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4405 From: J J Dewey Subject: Reincarnation Part III "It's quiet out there. Hope someone is alive enough to read this." PROOF THAT MAN EXISTED BEFORE BIRTH The orthodox Christian believes that man began at birth, but after that point in time he will live on endlessly never dying again. In other words, before birth for every person there is a total blank. He was nothing. He did not exist. To begin with this is a mathematical impossibility. If a line has a beginning and no end then it extends in to infinity. Every mathematics class teaches that one half of infinity is still infinity. In other words, if a thing has no end mathematically it has to have no beginning. Nothing exists in nature which has no end unless it had no beginning. Anything in nature that has a beginning can be proven to have an end. A ring provides a good example of this principle. It is circular and has no beginning and no ending point. On the other hand, if one puts a slit in it one will have both a beginning and an end. Nevertheless, it is impossible to cut or mold the ring in such a fashion as to produce an object with a beginning but no end. Such a form does not exist anywhere because one half of infinity is still infinity. Those who believe in reincarnation recognize the fact that the body of form we live in has both a beginning and an end, but there is within us an intelligent part of God that is one with God and never had a beginning or end. Paul talks about this and calls it "eternal" which would mean without beginning or end: "The things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (the physical body) were dissolved, we have a building of God, (our Spirits) an house not made with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens." II Cor 4:18; 5:1. Here we are clearly told that if the body were dissolved we will yet have an "eternal" house to live in, or that eternal part of ourselves we call the Spirit. If it is eternal as Paul says then it existed before birth for that which is everlasting has neither beginning or end. Paul tells us that this eternal part of us is connected with the Heavens. No wonder Jesus told us that "The kingdom of God is within". Paul mentions again this spirit: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, "whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether OUT OF THE BODY, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven." II Cor 12:2. Paul's out of body experience is really not that unusual for now that mankind has ceased burning out-of-the-ordinary persons at the stake people are talking more-about their spiritual experiences. Many who have experienced the near death state have reported actually leaving their bodies in the spirit and returning with an accurate memory of all the conversations of the doctors and nurses. Some who have gone through this report that their spirit body is connected to their physical by a silver cord of great elasticity. Many believe that death occurs when this silver cord is severed. Interestingly, the Bible makes reference to this: "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel be broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall RETURN unto God who gave it." ECCL. 12:6-7 Evidently Solomon had knowledge of the silver cord which connects the spirit and body as well as the golden bowl which is a golden etheric life energy (invisible to the untrained eye) which ceases or is "broken" also at death. The broken pitcher and wheel describe a cessation of bodily functions. Next we are told that at death the spirit "returns" to God. One may object here and say that if there is reincarnation then why doesn't the spirit go to a new body. The objector forgets that there is always a resting space between lives and during this interim period the spirit returns to God. The word "return" here is a powerful proof for a premortal existence. If all that which is us began at birth how can we return to God? If orthodox Christian thought is true all we could return to would be nothingness. We can only return to God if we came from God and we can only come from the presence of God if we had some form of existence with him before birth. The scriptures reveal that the Lord knew numerous people before they were born. Concerning Jacob and Esau he said: "The Elder shall serve the younger." Gen 25:23 Eve said of Cain: "I have gotten a man FROM the Lord." Gen 4:1 Another good example comes from Jeremiah: "Then came the word of the Lord unto me saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jer 1:4-5 Concerning himself Isaiah said: "The Lord called me from (can be translated 'before') the womb; and from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name." Isa 49:1 Of John the Baptist it is written: "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." John 1:6 Evidently The Lord knew Paul before his birth for he said: "He (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." This was spoken before Paul began his work. Paul also wrote that God "set me apart from (or before) birth and called me through his grace." Gal 1:15 New English. We are told that the saints are written in "the book of life from the foundation of the world." Rev. 17:8 In addition we are supposed to be "In hope of eternal life which God who cannot lie promised BEFORE the world began." Titus 1:2 How did God promise eternal life to us before the world began if we were not there? It would be silly for God to make promises to nothingness. The scriptures seem to make it crystal clear that people existed, were called, ordained, and had promises made to them before they were born. It makes it amazing to see the objections that come forth. The objector says that Jeremiah and others were not in existence before they were born, but they were in God's mind like an architect has a building in his mind. Therefore, they feel it was like God "sanctified", "ordained", "knew", and "promised" to a blueprint. The argument sounds very weak to anyone who thinks about it. One doesn't have to "Wrest" the scriptures when he merely accepts them the way they read. The Bible gives us powerful evidence that Job was with God before he was born. In chapter 38 God is reprimanding Job for questioning his wisdom and sovereignty and reminds him of works and events which he is supposed to already be aware of. He tells Job that he will demand an answer of him evidently aware that Job should know the answer to the following: "Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding...When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy?" Job 38:4~6. Who are the "sons of God"? The scriptures give a clear answer. John the beloved said: "WE are the sons of God..." I John 3:2 It is only fitting that we should be called the "sons of God" for he is called the Father of our spirits in Heb 12:9 Paul also said: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that WE are the children of God." Rom. 8:16 Since Job was one of the sons of God and "ALL the sons of God shouted for joy" at the foundation of the earth then Job had to be there shouting for joy with them. Evidently, the sons of God (which included you and me) were rejoicing over the planet that was prepared for us to inhabit. Who are the "morning stars (that) sang together"? They were the lightbringers and the prophets to the people of earth with the Christ being at the head. Jesus said: "I AM ... the bright and morning star." Rev 22:16 Others will be given the morning star and evidently become morning stars them selves in a future round. (See Rev. 2:28) The writer of Proverbs gives us a definite confirmation that the sons of men were present at the foundation of the world. The voice speaking in the eighth chapter of Proverbs is identified as wisdom and understanding. In other words, the wisdom and understanding of God has always been in existence and Solomon writes of it as if it were an entity: "Doth not wisdom cry? and under standing put forth her voice?" After explaining some of the attributes of wisdom the writer emphasizes how long wisdom has been around and how eternal she is: "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: When he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: When he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; rejoicing in the habitable part of HIS EARTH; and my delights were WITH THE SONS OF MEN. " Prov 8:1,22-31. This scripture makes it clear that when God promised us "eternal life...before the world began" (Titus 1.2) that he was not merely speaking to blueprints, but the "sons of men" were with him in "the habitable part of HIS EARTH." Evidently, we dwelt on another earth in another time where the wisdom of God was manifested. Here the Bible clearly tells us that the sons of men are very ancient beings. Orthodox people will not like the above interpretation, but they can produce no argument against it. It must be frustrating for them to even read it. This Proverbs scripture, however, helps us understand numerous scriptures from the New Testament. For instance, Paul said: "For whom he did fore know he did predestinate." Peter said that the Saints were "elect according to the foreknowledge of God." Evidently God gained this "foreknowledge" of us "in the habitable part of his (God's) earth". Another powerful witness that we have had a pre-mortal existence comes from the eleventh chapter of Hebrews. This is a famous chapter on the faith of the prophets (the Morning Stars) on the promises of God. One of the most interesting promises God has made concerns the heavenly city of the New Jerusalem. In describing this city John said he "saw the holy city of the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (Jesus Christ). And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the TABERNACLE OF GOD is with men, and he shall dwell with them...And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Rev. 21:2-3,14 It's quite possible that the new Jerusalem is presently located "in the habitable part of his (God's) earth." The author of Hebrews tells the saints who presently dwell there' "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant." Heb. 12:22-24 From these verses we have quoted we find that the inhabitants of the heavenly city Sion (Zion) or the new Jerusalem are: (1) God (2) The twelve apostles (3) Jesus (4) Angels (5) The general assembly (6) The church of the firstborn (7) The spirits of just men made perfect. The question naturally arises as to how long the city of the New Jerusalem has been in existence and how long the various types of inhabitants have been there. Since the New Jerusalem in heaven is the habitation of God one would assume it is very ancient. One thing we know for sure is that it is older than Abraham for the scripture says: "He (Abraham) looked for a city which hath foundations (the twelve apostles of the Lamb), whose builder and maker is God." Heb. 11:10. Since Abraham was aware of the foundations of the city and the foundations had in them the "names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" it is natural to assume that the twelve apostles lived in the city from the days of Abraham or earlier. The writer of Hebrews tells us concretely that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara, Noah, Enoch, and Able all lived in the Heavenly New Jerusalem before they were born: "These (those just named) all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country ('country' is from the Greek PATRIS which literally means FATHERLAND and figuratively means: Heavenly Home) And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. (If they were looking for any country on the earth they would have had no trouble finding and returning to it). But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them A CITY." (The New Jerusalem) Heb. 11:13-16. This interesting scripture deserves a closer examination. First, the prophets are called "strangers and pilgrims on the earth." This is significant because both words imply that they originated somewhere else besides the earth. "Strangers" comes from the Greek XENOS and means "foreigner" or "alien". "Pilgrim" comes from PAREPIDEMOS and literally means "resident foreigner". No matter which translation one uses a previous existence is indicated here. For instance if a man were a stranger in New York it means he had an existence and residence in another city before he arrived there. The prophets are "strangers" on the earth; therefore, they lived somewhere else before they lived here. If a man is a foreigner or an alien in the United States then he had to have a true citizenship in another country before he arrived here. Therefore, if the prophets are foreigners or aliens on the earth, then their true citizenship belongs to another country that they originated from before they were born. The pilgrims who arrived at Plymouth Rock did not originate in America but came from a distant land. They had a pre-America existence. The prophets are called "Pilgrims on the earth" meaning that they had a "pre-mortal" existence. A pilgrim is a traveler who comes from somewhere else. The next verse makes it crystal clear that the choice of these words was no accident. We'll quote it using the more accurate translation of "fatherland" instead of "country": "For they that say such things (that they are strangers and pilgrims) declare plainly that they SEEK A FATHERLAND." Verse 14 It's amazing that this scripture is not universally accepted as proving that the prophets lived before they were born for the writer says that it is "declare(d) plainly" that those who say they are strangers and pilgrims on the earth are seeking a Fatherland, or an origination point that they could have only lived in before they were born. The next verse puts a seal on this point: "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country (fatherland) from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned." verse 15. In other words, if their originating country was on the earth they could have returned to it while in the flesh. They were in an unfortunate position in that they were citizens of a Father land that was not on the earth, and that they could only return to after they died. The next verse elaborates this: "But now they desire a better country, that is an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God for he hath prepared for them a city." (the New Jerusalem) Verse 16. The prophets all sought the day when the heavens and the earth would come together and their Fatherland, the New Jerusalem, would descend on the earth so the tabernacle of God would be with men, and the prophets would no longer be strangers and pilgrims on the earth. John talks of those whose names are "written in the book of life from the foundation of the world." Rev 17:8 Most probably these would be those who lived in the heavenly New Jerusalem since that time. Those who are true citizens of the city would have their names recorded there. This record could very well be the book of life, since the inhabitants thereof are living life most abundantly. Post No. Keys-05-11-1999/4406 From: J J Dewey Subject: Gathering Hint Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another, other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race? Hint: Alexander Library Camelot Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4407 From: Gary Richards Subject: Re: Gathering 102 Hi Folks, JJ asks: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule? Has it been done before? What new properties could appear among us?" Absolutely. One example that immediately comes to mind is a computer operating system called "Linux". It is frightening the pants off Microsoft at the moment. This is a free operating system developed by like minded people all over the world and made freely available via the Internet (another example in it's own right). This has been developed cooperatively by people who are not dollar driven but result driven. They have produced a product that is faster, more reliable, more flexible and requires less hardware than Windowsxx. There is also a plethora of packages available (also mainly free) which are often as good pr better then the MS counterpart. This group is making great strides currently to make Linux as friendly as Windows (it's not far behind) and whilst the participants do not necessarily all speak the same language verbally, they do all speak the same language programmatically. Check it out, the history is well documented and it is worth reading just to see that it is possible to have a huge success story without money or big corporations. Their is literally a world wide community of Linux followers and producers. Love & Light Gary Richards Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4408 From: Jennifer Hampson Subject: Re: Digest No. 1999-05-12 of The Keys of Knowledge List JJ wrote: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another, other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Yes I can (after your hint!) : the Knights of the Round Table. love, Jennifer Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4409 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Gathering 102 Gary Richards wrote: JJ asks: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule?" I believe that it is possible and probable. It's called evolution. "Has it been done before?" Yes, it has been done before on other planets and possibly on earth also. If we are at the end of the 3rd millennium then it has. How many were "harvested" in the previous 2, I don't know. I just hope it's our turn now. "What new properties could appear among us?" Full consciousness for one. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4410 From: Zia Subject: The Gathering Principle Greetings to All, A wonderful example to me of the Gathering Principle is 'network marketing'. Incorporated into it is what I would call the 'duplication factor or principle' and incorporates visibly the law of like attracting like. Basically it starts with one person. That person 'gathers' say three people and teaches them through duplication to reproduce what they have done business-wise. The first person, that is the creator of that binary tree will attract like to it, and there will be a harmony in the creation process of what ultimately looks like a triangular formation: * * * * *** *** *** etc. In this sense we are all turning around and teaching those that come after us. And we have created a network of 'light' that is joined and structured, and duplicates through-out. And each person is gathering and also duplicates. Another gathering principle example must be the singular egg and all the sperm, with usually one winner, and then duplication takes over, with like attracting like to it to build the new organism. In fact when I look at 'as above so below', and then 'so below as above' I see our coming forth from the source into creation, followed by our return from creation to the source, and I see this mirrored in the gathering principle. Imagine 144,000 on this level or plane as a singular point, singing the song, which squares it, and then at the same 'time' on the next level above the same thing is happening so that the 144,000 squared on that level i squared again on that level, and that the link up through all the levels causes the same triangular growth from the bottom up which is the flipping of the triangle to become a six point Star of David, and earth (or even the universe) has gone to heaven, and heaven has come to earth. Such a beautiful picture. * + + --------- * * + -------- I'll let you connect up like symbols as I have to rush out the door. I am certain this could be represented mathematically. Squaring by level or plane or dimension whatever your understanding and vocabulary called the 7 levels of creation. ZIA Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4411 From: Marylin Subject: Re: Gathering Hint Gary Richards wrote: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another, other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" If I understand the question correctly, gatherings take place within a great many areas from A to Z/Zed. So, a group of high school football players "gather" together in practice to succeed at the game. UFOLAWYER1@aol.com has been creating a gathering to get the government to release the so called "classified" material on ufos and there are many who have joined with him in this quest. Crazy? I don't think so. He is attempting to bring about the conditions for first contact and since we are all from "elsewhere" that will stimulate our evolution. 'Scuse the pun, but yesterday is already history and it seems to me that all who are gathered together here on this list are a part of stimulating evolution. We are of one mind and committed to our "quest". Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4412 From: Lenore m. Subject: Re: Gathering Hint In recent times, the Joining of Helen Shucman and Bill Thetford. JJ Dewey writes: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of another, other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" "Hint: "Alexander Library "Camelot" Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4413 From: Terrance R Brennan Subject: Re: Gathering 102 JJ Dewey writes: "Do you think it is possible for multiple humans to join together and create a higher correspondence of an atomic molecule?" Yes, you've convinced me. "Has it been done before?" Yes. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church did it, was also accomplished in the days of King Arthur, and lastly (or firstly) Jesus did it with the Apostles. Stop looking at me like that. I didn't come up with this stuff. Cool teachings though, hmm? "What new properties could appear among us?" The Bible reports that after Jesus formed the human molecule with the apostles they then had the same power he had. The legends of Camelot report that King Arthur's army was unstoppable because they also wielded this power. Finally, eye witness accounts of Joseph Smith's and his groups' miracles report of healing the sick, raising the dead, etc.-- the same kinds of miracles talked about in the bible. A lesser-known human molecule was revealed, I believe, through the book Mutant Message Down Under. The tribe of Aborigines it talks about exhibited telepathy and miraculous healings (one of which was when a tribe member fell and broke his ankle. The bone was sticking out and the tribe healer went to work on it. The author reports seeing the bone go back into the leg all by itself and the man walking with no crutch after only days.) Folks, you don't know how hard it's been to sit on my hands, bite my tongue, and keep from letting the cat out of the bag on several occasions regarding the Human Molecule. Again, I have not been given any special privilege. I was just a willing guinea pig, back in the days, to test learning principles through the net. I got so hooked on the teachings that whenever JJ asked if I'd like to read a written work of his I jumped at the chance. Looking back now I'm wondering if it would have been better if the information had been withheld from me until my mind was better prepared as my excitement at the prospect of being in such a group has been a distraction ever since I learned about this. To recap--a while ago when I almost slipped up and blurted everything out, JJ asked me to keep from mentioning anything regarding human molecules until your minds were prepared. I guess since he's teaching it now means he senses your minds are properly prepared (I agree. It was fun reading about how people sensed something 'happening' within this group. All I could do was smile.) I only hope I am molecular material. Rob Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4414 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: The Tower of Babel J J Dewey wrote: "Question: In addition to the Molecular Relationship can you think of other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race?" Hi Folks, JJ, thanks for commenting on the gathering at the tower of Babel. Your comments reflected pretty well what I was seeing from that story. But for the fact that it even came to my mind, leads me to believe that there could be a lingering "paranoia" about any gathering by man for the purpose of "reaching heaven". Now whether this feeling comes from the well learned interpretation of the orthodox christian teachings or some genetic memory of the occurrence, I still think that it's a subject worth consideration. If for no other reason than the idea that a large part of the population here on earth may indeed be resistant, to one degree or another, to any such "attempt" at rebuilding that "damn tower". Do understand that I have no reservations about the direction that we are traveling here on this list, but I can sure hear the cries of many that would feel greatly threatened by the idea of molecular relationships, molecular businesses, and for that matter, just about anything that challenged the status quo. From the devoutly religious I hear the cry of "blasphemy". From those in business, from middle management and up, I hear the cry of "criminal". After all they have a huge vested interest in staying the course. They've in fact invested their lives, their income and career plans all around the idea of things staying the same. And from those who have made welfare their career choice, the word "mine" comes to mind. "I have a 'right' to my benefits because I'm _________", whatever. I wonder what it will be like when these simple yet profound changes begin to occur. Will the masses rise up against the plan of God and create the infamous "Armageddon" scenario that is so feared in these days? Will it take a massive crisis of worldwide proportion to enact the changes we're looking for? I'm asking this in order that we may be prepared for whatever scenario awaits us. I know that when the earth changes begin (though they've already begun), those who are on this list, as well as the many that are being prepared all around the world will surely be ready and welcoming of what takes place. But what about the great numbers of people who would think that what we discuss here would threaten their way of life, or even their mortal life? How will these people become "FOLKS"? And who will stand up to answer the fear that resides in the heart of man? *Inquiring minds want to know. :o) With Hopeful Expectation, John *(Slogan borrowed from The National Inquirer, a tabloid newspaper) Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4415 From: Susi Alexander Subject: Re: Human Molecule Fascinating stuff I find on this Keys-l mailing list. I first joined earthprophecy-l by stumbling upon spiritweb. Actually the name came to me so I typed it into my browsers address and www.spiritweb.org appeared...I did try .com first. Stayed with that list for several weeks and found a few interesting things but not exactly what I have been looking for. So anyway I finally went back in and joined several more lists. The Keys of Knowledge List really jumped at me and now I understand why. Thank you to all the people who post here. I usually just lurk or delete babel from the other emails, but lately your posts have been very interesting. I Read Mutant Message Down Under. Wonderful book took me two days start to finish because it captivated me. Love to pretend since childhood that I can heal things with those same techniques and sometimes it actually works ;-) Anyway to the point. Please go into more detail about this Human Molecule. I use telepathy almost daily and I am fascinated that J.J. Dewey sent me The Immortal way back when it first came out...I said before I could not put that down either...then to find him posting here and 2 days later receiving a postcard reminding me about The Immortal leaves me needing to get the rest of the book, but why do I feel like this list is calling me? A few short weeks ago another individual contacted me whom I did not know but recognized within the first few minutes of speaking with her that I knew her on a deeper level, a higher plane. This person is speaking about some of the same molecular and atomic type things to me, along with some type of gathering. Please if you can give more information do. Someone is speaking to me and I'm not sure what the message is, but this list is the closest I've come to finding out what is trying to be conveyed. I sit waiting patiently high on my mountain watching the sky, the earth and all her creatures listening so as not to miss any of the Keys of Knowledge or the wisdom to make the best use of them. There are 176 people in this mailing list and I wonder, have any of you just recently joined as well and felt the same pull to find this list? If you all are practicing this gathering technique can you reveal to the new comers why you are gathering? Many Blessings;-) Susi Alexander The Healing Hearth "http://www.healinghearth.com" Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4416 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Gathering 102 Terrance R Brennan wrote: "Folks, you don't know how hard it's been to sit on my hands, bite my tongue, and keep from letting the cat out of the bag on several occasions regarding the Human Molecule." Hi Rob, Well, I'm certainly glad you can stop biting your tongue. That's gotta hurt. After all you've had to have been doing that for many months now. And maybe it's time we got that cat fed. :o) As for the gathering process, the one example that comes to the forefront for me has little to do with any great scientific discovery, or any earth shattering event for that matter. No, the example for me comes from my experiences in music. It happens from time to time. When a group of excellent musicians come together to create that "something" that is in their souls, and the group melds together into what can only be described as one musician. The creation that occurs is always more than any one from the group could have imagined. And it's always more than the sum of the talent in the room. It's as "transcendent" as any experience I have ever dreamed of. I've sometimes wondered if this is why God sent "the band" to bring down the walls of Jerhico. :o) Happiest Blessings Folks, John Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4417 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Gathering Hint Oh, man.... with those hints I guess my guess of WOODSTOCK is just waaaaay off base! Hee Hee ~B. Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4418 From: Belle Subject: Re: Gathering Hint Brian wrote: "Oh, man.... with those hints I guess my guess of WOODSTOCK is just waaaaay off base!" Hee Hee ~B. Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4419 From: Richard/ Sharon Subject: VERY OT but please pass on I pray this is a sick joke, but my doctor's name is on this so I believe it's real and I apologize for all the addresses at the beginning, but I have no way of removing them. Please pass this on with your love and prayers. This is a wonderous example of gathering. blessings to you all. sharon & richard Subject: FW: PLEASE PASS THIS MESSAGE ON! My name is Christine Schmidt. I live in Mounds View, Minnesota and my little 20 month old girl is missing. Her name is Krystava Patients Schmidt. She was last seen with an acquaintance of mine named Becky (Rebecca) Lynn Dearmond on July 10, 1997. Becky took my grandmother's car and Krystava. The car is a 1997 blue Neon license plate number ANX 437. I need your help ....please! I am sending a photo with this letter in hopes that you will pass this letter to everyone you know on the Internet and print the photo of Krystava and post it wherever you can in your neighborhood. If you have seen her, or suspect anything suspicious, please contact the Mounds View Police at (612) 484-9155 as soon as possible. PLEASE forward this letter to as many people you know and post the picture of my little girl wherever you can. Please pray for us too! Thank you in advance for your support and cooperation. Christine Schmidt GUYS...PLEASE, PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUS AND FORWARD...IF YOU DELETE YOU HAVE NO HEART!!! BABY1.bmp Post No. Keys-05-12-1999/4420 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Gatherings Question: Can you think of other gatherings in our history that stimulated the evolution of the race? It wasn't on my hot list for gathering episodes, but I must admit that Woodstock was a great example. Even though it lasted just a few days this mass instant gathering of like minds created an energy implant in the history of the race (by race I mean human race). If a gathering for a short time of fairly normal folks with good intentions can have such an impact, imagine a more permanent gathering with directed purpose? John is also correct about the gathering of musicians. It is enlightening to contemplate how a small group of like minded souls gather together in a band and create together much more than they can in the separate condition. Imagine what would happen if thousands of people applied this principle to changing the world and bringing peace on earth, good will to men (and women). Martin Luther King and Gandhi (as someone noted) were examples of a temporary gathering with purpose. Attempts to gather the lights of the earth have been few. Moses made the first attempt in recorded history, but the lights he gathered out of Egypt were not much more enlightened than those who remained in Egypt. Jesus made the next major attempt and was only able to gather a couple dozen around him capable of soul contact. That was still much better than Moses who only had two or three out of the millions. Even though the numbers around Jesus were few look at the effect their oneness had on history. The next great attempt was through Merlin and his student King Arthur in creating the Knights of the Round Table and Camelot. It is no coincidence that there were twelve knights, but there were also twelve females. Unrecorded in the Bible is that there were also twelve female disciples who assisted in the work with Jesus. Camelot went a step beyond that which Jesus did in his lifetime and that was the establishment of a physical kingdom. After it's fall, succeeding leaders through jealousy did everything in their power to destroy records of that great period. It is interesting that the fragments of truth in the legends are much more fascinating than the real history of those who sought to destroy reality. Several religious leaders such as Mohammed and the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith sought to gather people. Joseph sought to build an enlightened kingdom but his vision was lost shortly after his death. The Library at Alexandra was a different type of gathering, a gathering of knowledge. It was by far the largest library in ancient times and as such became a magnetic force that drew the great minds of the age into one location. This gathering of knowledge was responsible for many great discoveries and philosophical ideas that have eventually altered the course of history. Today the foundation of the Internet is comparable to the foundation of the Alexandrian Library, but a higher octave thereof. The internet provides a means for the sharing of knowledge on a scale that was hitherto unknown and few can see where it is leading us. Did you know the internet is prophesied of in the Bible? I'll give another free autographed book to the first person who can tell me where the prophesy is. You have until Friday evening to find the answer. Post No. Keys-05-13-1999/4421 Subject: The Gatherings From: Rick Audette The more I read about gatherings, I've also been re-reading a book about the Knights Templar's. Originally only 9 Knights, within the first 50 years of their forming, cathedral building literally skyrocketed, under there direction. Also they lead the quest to the New World in "Merica" and seem to be the fathers of western civilization. Rick Post No. Keys-05-13-1999/4422 From: Sharon Jorgenson Subject: The internet JJ wrote: "Did you know the internet is prophesied of in the Bible? I'll give another free autographed book to the first person who can tell me where the prophesy is." Along with mass transit, the internet could be a fulfillment of Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." SharonJ Post No. Keys-05-13-1999/4423 From: charlene ordaz Subject: New to the List Hi everyone, I am new on the list and am so happy that I have finally been able to join! I just loved JJ's book and was also unable to put it down. There have been very few books that have had that affect on me!! Thanks so much JJ for giving us "The Immortal" and also for giving so much of yourself to the list. While I am saying my thank yous' I would also like to thank Rick for all the help he has extended to me since the "lemuria" list and also for his great idea of creating this list. He has put so much energy into making things comfortable and easy, that one really does feel as if he/she has finally come home! Forever cheerful, Samu, thank you for all that you have contributed! I loved the Keysters photo album! The JJ files have really helped me get a feel as to what you all are trying to accomplish. Thank you Samu! As I am still updating myself on what has transpired on the list and the subjects you have covered I am going to refrain from making any comments at this time. Thank you all once again, I just love being here!!! Shaila Post No. Keys-05-13-1999/4424 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: The Gatherings JJ wrote: "Did you know the internet is prophesied of in the Bible? I'll give another free autographed book to the first person who can tell me where the prophesy is. You have until Friday evening to find the answer." Here is my answer..