1999 - WEEK 7 Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3057 From: Rick Audette Subject: Something else Betty asks, "Have you read "Conversations with God - an uncommon dialogue" by Neale Donald Walsch?" I have not read the books yet, but have seen various bits of it shared on other lists. For the life of me, I can't remember what it was that turned me off about it. Until recently, I had a large library of books on religion, philosophy, science. In the last 30 years, I think I have read thousands of "new age"/ metaphysical/religion/philosophy tomes. I tend to be very selective these days, since I'd like to keep my new growing library trimmed to only the books I value most. When I go book shopping, I feel out what's available using a sort of 6th sense. For some reason, that book just does not appeal to me. This is not to say that it is not a good book for others. I am certainly not the best judge of what is best, you must each find your own sources of inspiration. Bear in mind, I almost didn't purchase book 2 of "The Immortal", because it contained one word that I didn't like because of things another had taught me (don't ask). When I wrote to JJ about my concerns, I did not think he would respond. The very next day he wrote saying only, if we rely on the authority of others, we give power to the beast. I was shot through the heart (in the nice way) and knew he spoke the truth. I ordered the book, that same day. I finished reading it within 2 days of receiving it and a week later had started this mailing list. No two people ever find their way to Heaven by exactly the same path. What works best for one, could spell disaster to another. Who can say what will direct your thinking upward. Mayhaps, at times, even the Devil can, inadvertently, give good advise. I am thankful for the recommendation of good books to read and encourage others to share what has inspired them. You never know when it just might be exactly what someone else needs to help them see more clearly. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3058 From: J J Dewey Subject: Answers through Principles Question for consideration: Let us say that you were visited by an all knowing master, or God itself, and he told you that you could ask any question you wanted. What would you ask? The reason I asked this is that we were talking about the importance of principles in relation to soul contact. I was interested in seeing if you would ask questions that would demand facts for answers or principles. Actually you surpassed my expectations. Some facts could be used in answering some of your questions, but overall you have gone in the direction of principles with your questions. This is a good sign that you are heading in the direction of soul contact. Below are some of your questions: "Honestly.. I would ask him once and for all, what is the truth?" - Dave Good question Dave, the same one that Pilate asked Jesus. Interestingly, Jesus did not answer. Actually truth is based upon a principle. Can anyone tell us what that is??? Only ONE question? I think I'd ask "who are you?" - LeLona You are in a league with Moses here Lelona. That is basically what he was asking when he wanted to know the name of God. And we now know the answer is that He is BECOMING what He DECIDES to BECOME. "How can I best serve?' "The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I had enough of a grasp of spiritual principles not to want to ask 'meaning of life' type questions. I would be more interested in asking questions that would assist me live a life that optimized my service to the Grand Plan as I have a horror of missing opportunities to serve." Glenys This is a great answer. All true seekers want to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people and I am confident that this is a true feeling in Glenys' heart. Now my question back to the group is this. What is the principle that will answer her question: "How can I best serve?" "I guess right now I'd probably ask God exactly what it is that I have done (in past lives perhaps, or this one) that is making this life so unbearably difficult." - Tracey We have probably all wondered about this one. What is the principle that will answer her question? "After getting past the easy ones, like: "Why me?" and After much contemplation, I think I'd ask: How can I face & heal my karma of the past & present and complete my Divine Plan ASAP?" - Jerry The principle behind this answer is very close to Tracy's question. First you apply the principle that reveals karma then you can see how to work it out. "Next time I get to speak to God or other all knowing Masters, I'm going to ask, "what's the WORD". I'm sure I would receive the closest thing to I that I can handle. If I knew the Word, the word would be in me. I would be the WORD and all things would be possible. Or not, but that seems to be a big draw for me. I can't think of any other question that would be more important to me." Rick The WORD is also based on a principle and cannot be revealed as a fact. It could not be revealed as something like KAZAAM because that would make it a fact and not a principle. There is a hint about the WORD in what Rick said in the above. Xavier writes: "I have another one. If you want the word, it means you want the means to create. then what you need is hard occultism. Bardon (sorry, fan thing) gives the divine word in his "the true kabbala". I would be interested in hearing what this version of the WORD is. "How can all who are struggling to survive break the chains of bondage to achieve freedom and prosperity? Please be specific." Garrett This is also solved through a principle. I wrote briefly about it a couple days ago and the key principle to solve this problem is ATTENTION. Here is a quote from that post: "The problem occurs when we do not understand the rules and therefore our ATTENTION is not on becoming a player. Instead, we are tempted to substitute rules of our own and play a game that we know we can win. This is not, however, what the Higher Self wants and neither do we when we understand. Would Monopoly even be fun if there was no risk of landing on someone else's motel and suffering loss? It is a great game because you take risks and there is a thrill when you win." We begin to win at the game of life when our ATTENTION is focused in one direction rather than scattered. The tortoise beats the hare because of ATTENTION. I have included several questions in this post that should provide some good fodder for thought. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3059 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem LeLona Hodges writes: "So how did you find the list? I like your signon name! If you've had the book for 2 years has it made any changes in your life? Or I should say, have you changed anything in your life since reading it?" I had problems getting signed up in spiritweb. It didn't want to accept my password all the time. When the list first began last November? I tried several times but was unsuccessful. then I tried again in early January and did finally put in a password that it would accept. I got busy with other things and when I tried to get in again I forgot the password. So I asked for a reminder. My daughter has her/this computer set up to a local server and then to Internet Explorer. However, AOL allows us to "piggy back" their site on our Hom.net server and that reduces the cost. I was unable to sign into spiritweb in AOL and had to do it from Internet Explorer where I put in my personal email address in AOL. When I want to receive another list I have to go back to Internet Explorer to do it. WOW!!!! this sounds like it would make a good comedy sitcom. As for changes in my life.....well there has been a good deal of more learning. Also being in touch with others of like mind has been a real Godsend for me. I have been unable to find anyone in this area to whom I can talk with face to face. I have been actively searching for truth since the late 60s and have had many so-called paranormal things in my life since I was 5 years. My dad studied Yoga from the time I was 10 and I also had the advantage of learning from him prior to his passing over in 1968. But the problem is that the more I learn, the more questions I have; hence the need to be in touch with others. JJ first contacted me two years ago when apparently something I had said in another area caught his eye and he figured correctly when he thought I would be interested in "The Immortal". Marylin_ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3060 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Something else Rick writes: "The first thing that comes to me when I read this is the word *personality*." I agree Rick. I too wondered about the word "personality". I have always thought of our awakening as being to full consciousness. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3061 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Bambi's (Marylin)changes Thanks, Bambi, for sharing your changes with the list. I just realized a change that has taken place for me, after I asked that question and you answered. When I first joined this list, and all the lists I have been on, I couldn't wait to see what I said come back to the list. And I was very disappointed if JJ didn't mention something I said. I was very ego driven. Now I don't feel that way at all. I just read the book when I joined the list, within the last 6 months, so I feel like this is a big step for me, all within a short time. And it feels very good to not be ego driven!!!!!! LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3062 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Bambi's changes LeLona I remember when I was like that. My lifelong girlfriend and I had found the Edgar Cayce teachings in the late 60s and I remember her telling me one day after work that she hadn't realized before how catty the conversation was at work. It's so easy to be ego driven and I still have to remind myself about it. That's the learning process we go through. And when we realize that we are beginning to accomplish what we know inside is what we really truly want, the joy can be almost uncontainable. (I'm a crier. Great happiness does that to me.) Now on this list we can learn more from each other and help each other to attain that which we wish to attain. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3063 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: Something else Rick Audette writes: "Betty asks, "Have you read "Conversations with God - an uncommon dialogue" by Neale Donald Walsch?" Rick replied: "I have not read the books yet, but have seen various bits of it shared on other lists. For the life of me, I can't remember what it was that turned me off about it. . . . . . . . . . ." I understand what you are saying, Rick. My friend had been talking to me about the books right after you started this list & when I joined I was sharing some of JJ's posts with her. She was so taken with the CWG book because so much of it sounded like what John said to JJ in the Immortal. I noticed that Spiritweb has a Conversations with God mail list so I joined it so I could see what others thought about it. After being on the list for almost one month there was not a single post from anyone about the book - even after I asked for someone to give me a few hints! Most of the postings were so far out in left field - some sounded like they were from another planet entirely - I had about decided that the book couldn't be all that good and told my friend about some of the conversations on that list. She insisted that all that stuff had absolutely nothing to do with the book, so I checked it out from the library - more to appease her than anything else! To my delightful surprise, I found she was right. I liked it so much that I bought all 3 books for my home library. I'm like you about being more selective now about which books I buy after reading everything of a spiritual nature that I could find for over 30 years. And I agree, everyone has to listen to their own intuitive Self about what rings true to them, an follow their own particular path. I'm waiting anxiously for Book 3 of the Immortal - any idea when it will be out? Betty Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3064 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem This is going to be fun.... "Do our politicians create too many laws or not enough?" -- JJ Too Many. Can anyone say honestly that they know ALL of the laws in the book? You want proof that there are too many laws? Go to: www.dumblaws.com/index2.htm. "Are we taxed too much or not enough?" After income tax, social security, medicare, sales tax, gasoline tax, and property tax, it estimated that nearly 68% of the average American's income goes to the federal government. We went to war with England over far less. So the answer is - Too Much. "Do our elected officials do too much or not enough?" Not enough. They are not fighting for our freedoms. They are only working to take them away. "Do our elected officials represent the will of the people as we desire or other wills?" Most of them respond to the pressures of the people in office. They either go with the flow, or get squelched out of office. If anyone in office were to finally stand up for the people, and go against the 'flow' of government, that individual (IMHO) would be mercilessly persecuted. "Do government programs try to do too much for people or not enough?" In the beginning, they were just trying to help. It worked, for a while. However, the welfare system, and various other systems, are only working to create people entirely dependent upon the government for survival. The government is not my big brother, and I do not want their help. By doing this, (also, IMHO) they are creating a group of people who are completely dependent on the government, and are only a burden to society. They need to protect their people from outside threat, other than that, leave them alone. "Do our elected officials seek to please their party leaders or the good of the country as a whole?" Party Leaders. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the position they are in. Do you think their party leaders would have selected those officials to run for office if those official didn't please them? Not likely. Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3065 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: OT - CWG book After Betty and Rick's conversation about the book, I'll tell an embarrassing moment on myself. I saw the mail list on spiritweb, joined it, and watched the mail a few days to see what they were talking about. Finally, one day I sent a letter to the list wanting to know who has conversations with God, that I'd like to hear about that. I didn't know there was a book(s) by that name. When everyone finally figured out what I was talking about, there was lots of LOL, and ROFL (rolling on the floor laughing), then someone told me it was a book. I went to a local bookstore to look at it, but didn't buy it. Needless to say, I dropped out of the cwg mailing list. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3066 From: J J Dewey Subject: 144 My friends, I just noticed we reached exactly 144 members. This number may go up and down for a while like 100 did but we are 1/1000th of the way to the magic number. I'm not promoting the book a lot right now because we are low on stock, but the next printing will be done shortly then we are going to do some more advertising. We have learned a lot from the first round here and I do not believe in making the same mistakes twice so this second printing should go at least twice as fast as the first. Unless some major publisher makes us a great offer I would figure that it will take another year for us to really permeate the market with the book. It is in the cards that it will happen, but the time period is always difficult to predict. I also see that the Clinton crisis has been averted through the acquittal. We had a more dangerous situation there than anyone realized because few knew how far Clinton would have gone to stay in office. If the Senate had made a decision to remove him he could have issued an executive order to suspend Congress or just refused to leave and with 70% of the public support and 100% of the Democrat support along with a lot of wishy washy Republicans he had a better than 50-50 chance of altering the Constitution by decree. If such a move was successful there would have been no election for the year 2000. Believe me many of the Brotherhood were in meditation deep to guide us through an aspect of this crisis that the masses were oblivious to. Now because it would violate the will of the masses as well as both Democrats and Republicans to interfere with the future election, barring some unforeseen situation, we should move into the new century with the election process firmly in place. A Dictatorship can only be set up when the will of the people allow it. The Brotherhood of Light always takes that will into consideration in guiding the events of the planet. Now we are in a situation where the will of the people will not allow any suspension of Congress. There was no ideal outcome and no one is entirely happy about how things worked out but events evolved so the election situation is as safe as could be expected. After Clinton leaves office he will not disappear into the woodwork as have other presidents. Look for him to be working through the United Nations or possibly to lead them. Look for him to turn into an international roaming consultant of presidents and kings. Hillary has her eye on becoming the first female president of the United States but I make no firm prediction in this area. There are too many variables. If I had to bet on it I would say she will not achieve this. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3067 From: Kevin Shannon Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem Dave, you answered these questions the same way I would. If memory serves correctly, you mentioned in a previous post that you were an ex-Mormon. I too, fall into this category. It took me more than thirty years to completely break away from the church, due to the fear instilled by the church constantly telling me that ex-communication would result in God removing my name from the book of life. I still occasionally get visits from the home teachers, but they seem to be extremely uncomfortable in my presence and don't stay long. Kevin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3068 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: 144 JJ said, "I just noticed we reached exactly 144 members. This number may go up and down for a while like 100 did but we are 1/1000th of the way to the magic number." Yes, I noticed that too and am excited about it, even if it did drop down to 143 on the very next post. Our first post was on Oct. 26, 1998, that's 113 days ago. So we average out to grow at a rate of 1.27 members per day. I noticed, a few days ago, that one member that I had no info on dropped off and rejoined under a new name and full information, including web page address. A quick review of the web site indicated that this lady is from Bratislava, Slovakia and died some time in 1998. It did not say if she was revived, so I don't know if this member is a student of hers, the lady brought back from the dead or a spirit (nice trick). I also found a web page, on another member, indicating that he was 15 years old and a lot more knowledgeable on spiritual matters than I was at that age. He's the youngest, I know of, on the list. I don't know who holds the record at the other end of the scale, unless John is secretly a member :) We have, last time I looked, members on every continent except Antarctica, so the sun truly never sets on the Keysters. Just thought y'all would enjoy a little mid-day Keyster trivia, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3069 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Brand new Welcome home Richard and Sharon, You said," Hope it's okay for listeners so very new to butt in so soon,...". Yes, it is very okay. and we hope you will both find plenty more to talk about with us. Glad you found your way here. Tell us more about yourselves. What part of the world do you call home? Your new friend, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3070 From: Jerry L. Harris Subject: Re: 144 Dear Rick & All: Thanks, Rick for your posts, and this one in particular. I am enjoying your keyster trivia. Its important to have a feel for the Whole group, in addition to those who like to converse on the web and whose names show up. I wonder what the ratio of "lurkers" is to " talkers"? With 144 total and a about 37 names actually talking by my headcount since Jan 21, the ratio would be about 37 to 144 or 25% talkers and 75% "lurkers" or meditators? This probably is not quite accurate, but it gives us an approximate view of our list of "readers" who may possibly wish to be "talkers" or better yet "sharers". It seems that the same regular names are always out there, with a few of us "newbies" coming out of our caves from time to time. I truly hope to hear from those 75% who surely are not missing in action. Come on out and play. I'd like to meet you all. Come on out of your caves. I'm a Cancer Sun sign & enjoy hiding among the rocks, but I have made myself come out to play. It's exciting to know that we have members on all continents. I would think that our interconnectedness would serve the Light and could tie in to the work of the Brotherhood to help stabilize & improve life on Earth, etc. Regards, Jerry Harris Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3071 From: xavier Subject: Re : Answers through Principles Thanks for the show, JJ. I enjoyed answering, no real job, just entertainment I needed it:) J J Dewey writes: "Honestly.. I would ask him once and for all, what is the truth?" - Dave Good question Dave, the same one that Pilate asked Jesus. Interestingly, Jesus did not answer. Actually truth is based upon a principle. Can anyone tell us what that is???" Being? Knowledge? Law? the un-manifested from which comes manifestation. the way between those two ones. Tao :) "Now my question back to the group is this. What is the principle that will answer her question: "How can I best serve?" Love? Evolve? Grow? Do the best you can and ask for means to do more? Give yourself to the plan? Service. (i know, it was the question.) :) "I guess right now I'd probably ask God exactly what it is that I have done in past lives perhaps, or this one) that is making this life so unbearably difficult." - Tracey" "We have probably all wondered about this one." Yes; it feels so true. "What is the principle that will answer her question?" Love, Divine Providence. Law. Balance. Divine love. "Mis'ricorde" in french. Yes, Mercy. "After getting past the easy ones, like: "Why me?" and After much contemplation, I think I'd ask: How can I face & heal my karma of the past & present and complete my Divine Plan ASAP?" - Jerry" Work :) `"The principle behind this answer is very close to Tracy's question. First you apply the principle that reveals karma then you can see how to work it out." (work) learn, evolve through the law of cause and effect. "Xavier writes: "I have another one. If you want the word, it means you want the means to create. then what you need is hard occultism. Bardon (sorry, fan thing) gives the divine word in his "the true kabbala"." "I would be interested in hearing what this version of the WORD is." Actually i wrote this unclearly; "he gives the divine word" means that he teaches the "word", the "way to" create through the word. This is the original meaning of kabbala, to create through the word, as "God" created the world. It is not a particular word. It is the whole divine language :) "the key to the true kabbala", Dieter Ruggeberg editions, W. germany. (D ruggeberg has a web site) Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3072 From: xavier Subject: lurking signs "Jerry L. Harris" writes: "I'm a Cancer Sun sign & enjoy hiding among the rocks" About delurking, an ascendant in leo could easily compensate that:) (i for one) Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3073 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: Answers through Principles J J Dewey writes: "Below are some of your questions:" "Honestly.. I would ask him once and for all, what is the truth?" - Dave" "Good question Dave, the same one that Pilate asked Jesus. Interestingly, Jesus did not answer. Actually truth is based upon a principle. Can anyone tell us what that is???" Why doesn't this surprise me? I'm not sure what principle truth is based on. I've thought back to the teachings of Urim and Thumim, and I'm still having a hard time even conceiving what this principle might be. I figure if that principle is revealed (or even hinted at) somewhere, it would be there. Maybe it's time to reopen book 2? Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3074 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem Kevin Shannon writes: "Dave, you answered these questions the same way I would. If memory serves correctly, you mentioned in a previous post that you were an ex- Mormon. I too, fall into this category. It took me more than thirty years to completely break away from the church, due to the fear instilled by the church constantly telling me that ex-communication would result in God removing my name from the book of life. I still occasionally get visits from the home teachers, but they seem to be extremely uncomfortable in my presence and don't stay long." Your memory does serve you right. There were a couple small incidents where they tried to instill that fear. It never really stuck with me, however. I've honestly and wholeheartedly been searching for the truth since as far back as I can remember. My opinion was this, "If there really is a God, and he really does want me to know the truth, he will eventually tell me in no uncertain terms". I didn't want to waste any time dedicating my life to a religion I didn't entirely believe in. Once I found the truth, then I could put that behind me, and do the work I really need to do. My In- Laws are very devout LDS, and my Sister-in-law just returned from her mission. They are constantly pressuring my wife and I to start going to church. So, I know how you feel. Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3075 From: Rick Audette Subject: Mailing-List archive keys-l Dear Keysters, This evening Rick aka Beck, was arrested for domestic violence. He held a loaded cross bow to my forehead, and counted to three before trying to fire. He also slapped me around and on several occasions threatened to kill me...THIS is the man whom you place so much trust in. For all of you in enlightenment and peacefulness this is the true character you are dealing with. This is not the first time. A year ago he had tried to set me on fire. Don't place your trust in false prophets. Margaret Eldridte Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3076 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Previous Post Interesting post Rick. Was there some hidden meaning I didn't catch? Who is aka Beck? Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3077 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Mailing-List archive keys-l And who is Margaret Eldridte and why is that person using Rick's mailing address? Sitting at his computer? LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3078 From: (Rob)TeKnoBabL Subject Re: Mailing-List archive keys-l I can think of a million and 1 reasons to believe you're a crackpot trying to hurt Rick, but suffice it to say that I think I'll just reserve judgment and wait to hear it from him, if he chooses to tell us about this situation and YOU. I don't know much about Rick's prophetic abilities, but I do know he created a good place for me to communicate w/ like-minded individuals, and he's been doing a good job as list operator. Waiting, tinkering, and dull-wittedly plodding, Rob Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3079 From: J J Dewey Subject: Rick's Ex It sounds like Rick's unstable ex-wife who used her kid to force Rick into taking her in finally outdid her welcome to the extent that tempers were lost. Margaret. If Rick tried to set you on fire then why did you move back in with him of your own free will??? How smart is that? Obviously you are a much greater problem to Rick than he is to you. Just move out, leave Rick alone and all your concerns about him will be no more. JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3080 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Rick If that's the case (x-wife) then it's time to focus our Prayer toward Rick. Meet in the GARDEN and say the PRAYER surrounding Rick with all the protection he needs. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3081 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Rick's Ex Thanks JJ, for putting this in the proper context. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3082 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Rick Consider it done. Diane LeLona Hodges wrote: "If that's the case (x-wife) then it's time to focus our Prayer toward Rick. Meet in the GARDEN and say the PRAYER surrounding Rick with all the protection he needs." Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3083 From: Joseph Darwin Stevens Subject: Re: Principles JJ Dewey wrote: Question of the day: "Let us say that you were visited by an all knowing master, or God itself, and he told you that you could ask any question you wanted. What would you ask?" WHY? Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3084 From: Ajah D'Jinn Subject: Re: Principles Don't you already know the answer to "why?" The answer is "because" and I am quite sure that you would get that answer from GOD. I did and there have been many others that have gotten the same. It has been my learning not to ask GOD for anything since in a perspective with many limits, the answer you will get may not be as enjoyable as you might have hoped. Example: "God, would you show me how to love unconditionally?" The answer is "Yes, I will show you that." But the pain of existence is unbearable when there isn't another near you that has learned that. SO you do try to show an other what that is, and disappointment starts to act in your emotions. I have first knowledge of all this. It has happened to me in ways you might not possibly understand. A good question to ask GOD: Will you show me the balance between no=thing/everything? Perhaps this will send reason and understanding your way so that when you do learn unconditional love (or anything else) and how to show that to the others, it won't hurt as bad in your emotions. My learned opinion, -Amy Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3085 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem - money J J Dewey asks: "The Question: Is it right or wrong to charge for spiritual teachings in this age? Should there be a charge in some circumstances, but not in others?" I think most of us have a lack of understanding of the principles of abundance, which is usually tied in with a massive misjudgment about what is "right" or "wrong" - "good" or "evil" when it comes to money and the circumstances under which we may earn it. We carry a thought around that money is "bad" -"the root of all evil", etc. We also carry around the thought that God is "good" - therefore, in our thought system, God & money don't mix. This makes it difficult for us to take money for any good thing we do. I mean, if a thing is judged by us to be very "good" we tend to value it less in terms of money - so the "better" or more worthwhile something is the less money it's worth. So our teachers make a pittance while the strip teasers, etc. make a fortune. Our leaders make so little compared to sports stars that they feel they have to steal to make up the difference. Our spiritual teachers practically live on bread and water while we throw money at entertainers. Think about it, FOLKS, almost everything on which we place a high intrinsic value, we insist must come cheaply or completely free! In our minds - our thoughts - a person who chooses the highest calling should get the lowest pay! DOES THIS KIND OF THOUGHT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL?? So, JJ, in my opinion - YES - our spiritual teachers should be compensated monetarily for their jewels of wisdom imparted to us - in fact, I venture to say they MUST be paid in order to survive on a physical level so are able to devote more time to the teachings! Love & Blessings, Betty Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3086 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem Glenys Lowery writes: "It's strange for us NZ'ers because it would never happen here. Not that our politicians are any different but we aren't really interested in their sex lives and would certainly never spend tens of millions of dollars investigating them." Glenys & other Keysters, I don't think the majority of Americans are all that interested in our politician's sex lives, either - otherwise Pres. Clinton wouldn't still have the support of 70% of the people. Obviously, most people realize that his sexual misconduct had nothing to do with how he runs the country (which is a misnomer in itself - the President doesn't have all that much individual power!). I think the Republican party saw the whole mess as a golden opportunity to get rid of a Democratic president who is a thorn in their side, and the news media played it for all it was worth and crammed daily doses of the mess down our throats, ad nauseam. I, for one, was happy to see it backfire in their faces! After all, if sexual misconduct was an impeachable offense this country would have impeached at least half of our presidents! And yes, I am aware that their "reason" for trying to impeach him was supposed to be his lying to the Grand Jury - but who was the primary witness they called?? Monica Lewinsky, the other half of the sexual activities! :o) Personally, I think all of our politicians should take a long, hard, honest look at themselves and be thoroughly ashamed of what their power plays has done to this country - but, alas, I'm afraid that neither shame nor honesty is a part of their vocabulary. I'm just sorry that the whole world was subjected to this shameful display of our dirty laundry under the guise of seeking justice. OK, I'm off my soapbox now - we can get back to more important & interesting stuff! :o) Love & Blessings, Betty Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3087 From: Kevin Shannon Subject: Re: Mailing-List archive keys-l Margaret, I have been on this list since near its inception and have never heard Rick claim to be a prophet. I shall include you both in my prayers. Kevin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3088 From: Betty Norem Subject: Rick's ex LeLona Hodges writes: "If that's the case (x-wife) then it's time to focus our Prayer toward Rick. Meet in the GARDEN and say the PRAYER surrounding Rick with all the protection he needs." Absolutely, LeLona - I agree. It sounds like Rick needs ALL of us and the PRAYER to support him thru this problem. We all love you, Rick - look for our loving vibes coming at you! Love & Blessings, Betty Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3089 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: OT - CWG book LeLona writes: "After Betty and Rick's conversation about the book, I'll tell an embarrassing moment on myself. I saw the mail list on spiritweb, joined it, and watched the mail a few days to see what they were talking about. Finally, one day I sent a letter to the list wanting to know who has conversations with God, that I'd like to hear about that. I didn't know there was a book(s) by that name When everyone finally figured out what I was talking about, there was lots of LOL, and ROFL (rolling on the floor laughing), then someone told me it was a book. I went to a local bookstore to look at it, but didn't buy it. Needless to say, I dropped out of the cwg mailing list." Thanks for sharing that, LeLona. At least you got some answers for your question - even if they were ROFLing! :o) There were 2 or 3 people dominating the list trying to one-up each other on how spiritually evolved they are that I didn't even get an answer - needless to say, 3 weeks was enough for me & I also left. And since I began reading the CWG book, I have to wonder if the author is even aware of the existence of the list & what type of activity is on it, because neither he nor the book deserve that kind of thing. Maybe I'm being too judgmental of the list and it has probably improved by now - I hope so! Betty Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3090 From: J J Dewey Subject: The Negative Pull My Friends, I do not have much time tonight so I thought I'd say a few things in support of Rick. He has posted some information on his situation for all to read and also written me privately and I really feel for him because I also had a very awkward first marriage. There were many times she brought out a rage in me that I wasn't even aware that I possessed and it was only through the extreme exercise of self control that I was able to follow a harmless path. I can only imagine the difficulty of an ex that you do not get along with moving in after the divorce using your child as leverage against you. I thank God everyday for my current wife - that she is kind and supporting yet still has a definite mind of her own. I am grateful that there is someone in this world who appreciates me for who and what I am and wish all of you the same end in your search. When we make a great effort to progress upon the path a vacuum is created behind is that tries to suck us backward at our weakest moment. If this negative force does not pull us backward it will create an attack when our guard is down at our most vulnerable point. For instance, I have noticed that after a person receives a strong dose of soul contact he will almost always receive a strong negative pull within a period of three days after the contact. Then over half the time he will yield to the negativity and the soul contact will be as if it never was. Then if he resists the direct attack on himself the negative force will often rest upon his friends. Sometimes after I had a major attack from my first wife she would say something like: "I don't know why I said those things. It was like it was not even me that was saying them, like I was just watching what was happening." My observation of this negative force is that it always trails after he who is making spiritual progress. I have concluded that it is a necessary thing that works in the end to stabilize us in the light. When we can stay focused in the soul with a negative force pulling us back and negative people and circumstances trying to distract us then we finally reach a point where we have earned the right to stay permanently on our next plateau. When we slip and make mistakes and then center back in the light and look back we can almost always on hindsight see what we should have done. We need to take strong note of this and use the knowledge of the past to penetrate the future fog into the permanent light. We don't know Rick's side of the story, but apparently he is in trouble and I know we all feel for him for we have felt his spirit here in this forum and we know his essence is good. Obviously he is being tested by fire. Let us all think, pray, meditate and send protection and love to him as we sing the song. With our support I am sure he will work his way out of this problem as will several others of you who are having all the problems you can handle. Working our way out of these life problems is sometimes very difficult, but the experienced gained is always a knowledge that you wouldn't trade for a pile of books. In my own life I see several potential problems that could develop in the near future and I am taking steps to see they are harmlessly neutralized. This is what we must do. Look ahead and see what is coming and then add 2+2 and see the probably future. Then if you do not like what you see you must immediately act to change it so your life progresses onward under your control. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3091 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: The Negative Pull JJ Dewey writes: "When we make a great effort to progress upon the path a vacuum is created behind is that tries to suck us backward at our weakest moment. If this negative force does not pull us backward it will create an attack when our guard is down at our most vulnerable point." I agree 100% with what JJ is saying here. I also discovered that it is ME that is pulling me backwards, but in the long run I am making my forward progress stronger while overcoming the negative backward pull. Kinda like a rubber bank. It has to be pulled backward before it can propel it's contents forward with any great speed. Yes, now I remember Rick talking about his house guests moving in unexpectedly, and it's funny, (tho I wasn't laughing) I had been thinking about how to respond to some of the questions JJ posed to the group, and decided to talk about Rick's wanting "the Word", when I logged onto the computer and found Margaret's email. Well, I never posted my thoughts about the Word, needless to say. I just hope Rick can come back to the list soon and not be gone for long. I don't know the legal implications he may be facing today, but I'd say this is going to be a strong pull/catapult for him. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3092 From: Lelona Hodges Subject: Re: The Negative Pull LeLona Hodges writes: "I agree 100% with what JJ is saying here. I also discovered that it is ME that is pulling me backwards, but in the long run I am making my forward progress stronger while overcoming the negative backward pull. Kinda like a rubber bank. It has to be pulled backward before it can propel it's contents forward with any great speed." Sorry, too early in the morning when I wrote that. I mean to say rubber BAND. That's what happens when one is ambi-dexterous. I have to look at my hands sometimes to see which one is left and which one is right. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3093 From: xavier Subject: Rick Yes, I'm with you Rick, as we all here are. We all know what personal relationships can lead to in terms of trouble:) If you're being arrested, just give a hello when you're back. What a mess! A nice event for the play of life, eh? And don't fear judgments from anyone around:) xavier the bollocks (dunno, just came out LOL) Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3094 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Mailing-List archive keys-l 'Dear Keysters, This evening Rick aka Beck, was arrested for domestic violence. He held a loaded cross bow to to my forehead, and counted to three before trying to fire. He also slapped me around and on several occasions threaten to kill me...THIS is the man whom you place so much trust in. For all of you in enlightenment an peacefullnesss this is the true character you are dealing with. This is not the first time. A year ago head tried to set me on fire. Don' place your trust in false prophets. Margaret Eldridte" "THIS is the man whom you place so much trust in." Hi Folks, And hello Margaret. If you have been reading these posts, you've heard it said that Rick never claimed to be a prophet. With this I agree. But this doesn't mean that we don't "trust" the man. The reason, however, for our trust does not come due to the actions of another, but is due to our personal commitment to Love. But of what strength is our Love if at the first sign of failure in another, we would turn our face away and shut off the flow of Love toward that person? I would submit to you that this one who fails has greater need of Love than ten thousand who are pure. The physician doesn't come for those who are well, but for the infirmed. So what does the physician say? I think it goes something like this, Of what profit is it if you love those who love you? Anyone can do that. Or if you do good to those who do good to you, aren't you doing what everyone else already does? Why don't you try this out? Love those who don't love you. Do good things for those who treat you badly. Be a friend to one who doesn't even care about you. This is the way of our souls. This is what we are connected to. This is Love. And Margaret, this is what you may have inadvertently triggered from this group. But don't think that we will only be sending this Love to Rick. That's too easy. In fact, this Love we send is also being sent to you. And to that house. And to the very elements that exist there. None of us claim of ourselves to be prophets, for we only know to send the energy. How it will manifest is a mystery. But manifest it will as soon as those on this list begin to send that Love to the WHOLE circumstance. It may take time, but watch! As Love prevails. Be Good Folks, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3095 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem JJ asks: "Therefore, let me ask these questions to produce seed material. Do our politicians create too many laws or not enough? Are we taxed too much or not enough? Do our elected officials do too much or not enough? Do our elected officials represent the will of the people as we desire or other wills? Do government programs try to do too much for people or not enough? Do our elected officials seek to please their party leaders or the good of the country as a whole?" I know I am about to sound like negativity personified, but here goes anyway... Politicians create too many laws. Yes, we are taxed too much. Elected officials do not do enough (and they get paid a veritable s***load of money, especially when you consider government pensions!). Elected officials sometimes represent the will of the people (but it must be difficult especially in cases like the impeachment trial when the country is sending such mixed messages to the politicians). Government programs do not try to do the right things for the people, and no, they do not do enough. Yes, our elected officials seek to please their party leaders more than do what is good for the country. Even someone who has paid marginal attention to the impeachment vote can see that. Now I have a question... why do you ask, JJ? I haven't read everything from the weekend so perhaps I am about to find out... Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3096 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: The Negative Pull Well, I'm not sure what happened there. As such, I'm just going to refrain from making any kind of judgment until I hear Rick's side. JJ, I see what your saying. During our discussion about Business and soul contact, I received confirmation time and again about the things you were saying. Shortly after that, (approx. 3 days if I remember correctly..) my wife and her whole family turned against me and threatened to cry child abuse, because I refused to have her tested for Autism. (She is 2 years old, and still does not walk or talk.) I did not want to put her through tests I considered traumatic and unnecessary. Other than those two minor issues, my daughter is normal and intelligent. Anyway, back to the point. It seems every time I receive a confirmation or revelation of some sort, something like this happens shortly after, making me feel abandoned and alone. It's nice to have an explanation as to why this occurs. On the other hand, I welcome the challenges in my life. They help make me stronger, and mold me into a better person in the long run. I feel as long as I honestly believe that, the Dark Brotherhood will have no power over me. (As if they ever did.) Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3097 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: The Negative Pull David Curtis writes: "It seems everytime I receive a confirmation or revelation of some sort, something like this happens shortly after, making me feel abandoned and alone." As I was reading Dave's message it triggered something inside me, and I thought maybe JJ could say something about it, or not. The other morning as I was waking up I had this distinct feeling that I was covered in a shroud. I even heard the word "shroud". I haven't wanted to think about it since then, but I guess I'm ready to look at it now, in light of changes everyone seems to be going through, especially since JJ said my question to God was in a league with Moses. I know John said that that's what God said to Moses, and it do make sense that that's God's name interpretation, but until I hear it for myself it isn't really real for me. Grandma Moses Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3098 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: 144 "After Clinton leaves office he will not disappear into the woodwork as have other presidents. Look for him to be working through the United Nations or possibly to lead them. Look for him to turn into an international roaming consultant of presidents and kings. Hillary has her eye on becoming the first female president of the United States but I make no firm prediction in this area. There are too many variables. If I had to bet on it I would say she will not achieve this. JJ" Perish the thought! I am hoping never to have to hear about "King Bill the Terrible" ever, ever again come y2k! Let alone Hillary the Enabler. I think I may REALLY lose my lunch just thinking about it. Gag! That Little Rock Lie Boy has me voting Republican in 2000 even if it is for Dan "Dumber than a Doornail" Quayle! And I have written to Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer and said as much. They will not get my vote again either! However, I am glad that things did work out according to the meditations of the Brotherhood of Light. This is definitely the only bright side to this darkest chapter in American history in my life thus far (and yes, I was alive when Nixon was doing all his fabricating as well). I even wrote to Vogue magazine and told them that they have sold me many magazines, but not the one with Hillary on the cover, that's for sure. I truly, truly do not "get" this Hillary-as-saint thing in the media. It blows my mind, personally. I think she is every bit a sick and twisted as her husband. Did you all see the gold heart Billy boy gave her for Valentine's day with his promise never to be unfaithful again? Oh please. Indeed! I have to go and toss my cookies now, y'all...... Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3099 From: sphinx99 Subject: FW: 11 Aug 99 11 Aug 99 is "The Most Synchronistic Day of the Millennium!" If any of these things interest you, please check out this web site! http://www.geocities.com/~moeragetes The Destiny of America The Return of Camelot The Rising of King Arthur The Sword used to stab Julius Caesar The Spear used to pierce the side of Christ The Ark of the Covenant re-appears The Temple of King Solomon is re-built The Sphinx embodies The Four Cherubim The Capstone completes The Great Pyramid of Giza SLN Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3100 From: Anni Ida West Subject: Rick John K wrote: "But don't think that we will only be sending this Love to Rick. That's too easy. In fact, this Love we send is also being sent to you. And to that house. And to the very elements that exist there. None of us claim of ourselves to be prophets, for we only know to send the energy." I agree 100 % and will do what I am able to to try and help this sad situation. Looking forward to seeing you again, Rick. Love and light to all of you. Anni Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3101 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Principles Amy writes: "Don't you already know the answer to "why?" The answer is "because". Hi Amy In my 62 years this is only the second time I have heard the answer to "why?". It made complete sense to me the first time years ago and still makes sense today. I wouldn't be able to explain it, but feel it inside. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3102 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: lurking signs "Jerry L. Harris" writes: "I'm a Cancer Sun sign & enjoy hiding among the rocks. About delurking, an ascendant in Leo could easily compensate that:) (I for one)" I'm a Virgo in the cusp of Libra. I LURK at lot. Is that in my sign: 9/21/36? Sorry, no name. I claim to be 29. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3103 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Rick LeLona writes: "If that's the case (x-wife) then it's time to focus our Prayer toward Rick. Meet in the GARDEN and say the PRAYER surrounding Rick with all the Protection he needs." Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3104 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Rick Marylin Adams writes: "If that's the case (x-wife) then it's time to focus our Prayer toward Rick. Meet in the GARDEN and say the PRAYER surrounding Rick with all the protection he needs." Since we haven't heard from Rick today I suggest we do the Song again tonight, 10 pm CST and focus all our attention for Rick's safety and == well, like I always say, "in right action", whatever Rick needs will be given (thus, the right action), so that we don't focus all our attention on the anger or whatever. I'm willing to keep it up until he SHOWS UP. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3105 From: "Jerry L. Harris" Subject: Re: Rick I agree to stay with the prayer for Rick until he SHOWS UP. Good idea. I usually tag my prayer endings with something like: "all adjusted according to God's will", so I don't create havoc with my good human intentions worded incorrectly so that I "don't ask amiss". Regards, Jerry Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3106 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem Dear Betty, Glenys, and Folks, I know this is not the forum for trashing Hill and Bill; however,... The man was/is supposed to be our "top cop" (remember civics class? executive, judicial and legislative branches of gov't?). He is supposed to be someone who supports the law of the land, which is that you do not LIE under oath, which he did. He was hardly impeached for sexual misconduct. Give me a break! If there is any justice at all, he and Hillary will spend every last cent they have made from bad land deals, like Whitewater, and from selling the Chinese government technology secrets of Loral, a US company (for which he should be tried and convicted for TREASON) - hopefully they'll spend every last cent they have trying to keep themselves out of prison. This whole thing is far from over. He still may indicted (and hopefully will be). I mean, if I lied under oath, and was found out, do you think there would be any hesitation in throwing my tush in jail? No. So why should this guy be held to a different standard? Just because he has more money and a higher position in society? I don't think so! And I am one of the dunderheads who was fooled by this master liar; I voted for him, twice, no less! Enough said from my end... Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3107 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem Well said Tracey. I agree with you on almost all of this with the exception of, I had his number from before he was elected the first time and never voted for him even once. Yes, you and I would end up in jail if we did a fraction of what he did before a Grand Jury or in his deposition. Obstruction of justice is another one but as you said some of his other "crimes" such as selling our technology to China in order for them to "aim" their missiles at us better or using fbi files to gain an advantage over supposed enemies are among other crimes. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3108 From: NeoCrist Subject: The Truth "xavier" writes: "Subject: Re : Answers through Principles" Thanks for the show, JJ. I enjoyed answering, no real job, just entertainment. I needed it:) J J Dewey writes: "Honestly.. I would ask him once and for all, what is the truth?" - Dave" "Good question Dave, the same one that Pilate asked Jesus. Interestingly, Jesus did not answer. Actually truth is based upon a principle. Can anyone tell us what that is???" Being? Knowledge? Law? the un-manifested from which comes manifestation. the way between those two ones. Tao :) "Now my question back to the group is this. What is the principle that will answer her question: "How can I best serve?" Love? Evolve? Grow? Do the best you can and ask for means to do more? Give yourself to the plan? Service. (i know, it was the question.) :) "I guess right now I'd probably ask God exactly what it is that I have done (in past lives perhaps, or this one) that is making this life so unbearably difficult." - Tracey" "We have probably all wondered about this one." Yes; it feels so true. "What is the principle that will answer her question?" Love, Divine Providence. Law. Balance. Divine love. "Mis-ricorde" in French. Yes, Mercy. "After getting past the easy ones, like: "Why me?" and After much contemplation, I think I'd ask: How can I face & heal my karma of the past & present and complete my Divine Plan ASAP?" - Jerry' Work :) "The principle behind this answer is very close to Tracy's question. First you apply the principle that reveals karma then you can see how to work it out." work) learn, evolve through the law of cause and effect. "Xavier writes: "I have another one. If you want the word, it means you want the means to create. then what you need is hard occultism. Bardon (sorry, fan thing) gives the divine word in his "the true kabbala". "I would be interested in hearing what this version of the WORD is." Actually i wrote this unclearly; "he gives the divine word" means that he teaches the "word", the "way to" create through the word. This is the original meaning of kabbala, to create through the word, as "God" created the world. It is not a particular word. It is the whole divine language :) "the key to the true kabbala", Dieter Ruggeberg editions, W. Germany. (D ruggeberg has a web site) Hi all, Today then I get beck from the party. I sow that I have a lot of new email and I thought that maybe I will read it to night and I'm doing this. On this list I'm New Kind of Spirit I think. And then I sow that wrote J J Dewey jjd@rmci.net & "xavier" xavier22@club-internet.fr about government and TRUTH I thought that I maybe can help little to say about the truth and conspiracy of the government. "In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." - Winston Churchill On the surface, the world looks very much like the one outside your bedroom window. The same people are walking the same dirty streets, the same animals rummage through the same garbage, and the same mindless drivel is shown on the same TV stations. But sometimes that world just doesn't seem right. You Wake up in the morning and get the feeling that something isn't as it should be. Why do certain figures appear out of nowhere and become famous overnight? Why do the rich get richer, and the poop get poorer? What is the government really paying for when it shells out 75$ for a screwdriver? Why is it the more questions you ask the fewer answers you get? Why is it that any answer always leads to another question? Sometimes you cannot see what defines your world. This is the nature of conspiracies, I think. Hiding The Meaning: If the Illuminati-Freemasonry mysteries are working for world government and want to keep it a secret, they must conceal and hide the truth of their actions. Albert Pike wrote: "Nothing excites men's curiosity so much as Mystery, concealing things which they desire to know; and nothing so much increases curiosity as obstacles that interpose to prevent them from indulging in the gratification of their desires. Of this the Legislators and Hierophants took advantage, to attract the people to their sanctuaries, and to induce them to seek to obtain lessons from which they would perhaps have turned away with indifference if they had been pressed upon them." (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 384) The Truth is Ultimate Power to Rule the World, I think. Because if you know that it is you can rule everything, you can destroy, create and so on. The Truth can be everything - that I'm saying is truth, You don't believe, then you have Paranoid man. :)D We all know that it is MKULTRA Project, BlueBook and Moondust Projects, we also know UFO Project, we also know that it is Black Book. But if we really know the truth of this Projects and that happened in that days. Because truth can be lie, and lie can be truth, so the truth must be epstractical form of that we know. Because newspapers always create something plus where is real story, and people read it because they like this style better. From the old times People don't say the truth because they know that if you will say you can die, or something can happens. It is like in the big company say the truth to someone about the company how much they are on the dept, and next day this info you will find on the newspapers. And I think your job in this company will be ended. "...Nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way." - President Franklin D.Roosevelt" I spill upon the draft, "On which side are you?" upon a world where all the people are Frankensteins creating monsters all the time & nobody gives it a second thought --You who could've done anything about it, but you don't really give a Face becomes earth, sinks to the distance green with th'odors of the musty Darkness the river blinks its body through th'dangling moss of sequence's swirling refusals blocking all by the bucketfuls lapping the faint taste, Space itself is expanding! But man does not yield to the authority of truth--only to the truth of authority: there are no evil people--Except, of course, if you find good people who think there are evil people (then, most probably, those are the evil people) ... men yield truth to the majority, or fragmented Autumn gone into the shape of flesh drinking from Spring's twisted bones: the forest is discovered to be but Fancy's flourish upon an empty glass (half of which holds those who want to win & the other half holds those who want to win by th'rules) clamoring & clamoring: On which side? On which side are you? Amidst th'incomprehensible remains: "Do: This Great Thing!... What are you saving yourself for?" one more of our Times' peculiar trophies: "The World does not need you --But it needs THIS: Do this & die! " ... Corpse of a pigeon which, living, tried to fly over Candor's difficult cliffs (going at it with Chance's uncertain wings instead of Change's sure hammers) perfectly upon the gutter moves a matron to pull it aside --It's not her job, you understand--& yet she, tenderly, picks it up & places it upon the trashpile: Where else!?! (aside: but with a sanitized piece of old newspaper in order to avoid at all cost The Touch) Death beats its wings & chopped his head off while trying to cut the muster, for The Path to Perfection is barred by O Impatience! my man, Death beats its wings, Why do I get th'feeling your brains were run over by a truck! ... O Man (the midget murdered by a short circuit): Death beats its wings, y en esta tumba yace Rodrigue --Y mas alante el que le sigue: La Muerte beats its wings --Why do you stand for it? Hemorrhoids, sir, hemorrhoids (please tell me, answer me this eternal question: Was Man born to break th'rules others have made? Or, was Man born to make up rules for others to break?) ... Death beats its wings, both (can you understand it?): "On which side? On which side are you?" But I will not say anything until I have aninkling of what you intend to do with my answers, when Death beats its wings against the resilient obsolete and World sinks, World sinks, World sinks, World settles back, settles back, settles back further & further & further, & then further than an opened door recognizes, than an opened door recognizes, than an opened door recognizes a muscle has flexed! Like someone say: "search for the truth and you will find." Yes of course because like I know truth is everything and everywhere. "They [the illuminati] engineered the spread of crazy conspiracy theories, because even thought many of the theories are true, they still sound crazy..." -J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, The Book of the SubGenius "The stupider it looks, the more important it probably is." Same Book. Why Jesus didn't answer? Because he know that the truth can be lie, and Sometimes better did not say nothing. "Silence is BEST truth, after lie." - A.N. Seer, Land of the Lands Why Hitler wanted to kill off or suppress anyone with an IQ of over 80. Because he know the truth that that people can rule the world. Why do you think he say: that we must burn all books, that could increase your IQ level. like and this days we can see that happens with US President, does we know all truth about this? And on the end. I want to say that I like that did you say: 'Can anyone tell us what that is???' I would say: 'Can anyone tell us what that is, then it is lie.' sounds crazy. :)D No one will not answer in this question that is truth, because no one don't know. "If MY government works the way they say it works, I'm in DEEP trouble. But what do THEY know?" "That's SO stupid only an intellectual could believe it! You ARE an intellectual, aren't you?" "Always lie, even if you want to say the truth. Maybe then thet truth will be not lie." Best Regards, NeoCristal Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-16/3109 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Rick I just wanna stop and send Love, Acceptance, Support and Understanding to all involved. And, when you think about it, that just about sums up everyone, eh? ~B. Post No. Keys-1/1999-02-17/3110 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Rick's Ex I've just got my computer back after it ended up in Computer Hospital as a result of Solar Eclipse madness. To make matters worse, my modem ended up in Modem Morgue after catching a terminal (pun intended) illness. I would have coped with reasonable equanimity except that a maniac crashed into me and my car then did a road rage number on me. The brave man did a runner while I was ringing the Police on my mobile phone. Add to that a ghastly mouth infection as a result of a tooth extraction from hell and you can understand why I logged on feeling a little bit annoyed with my circumstances and the self-accusing admonition that I couldn't have been paying enough ATTENTION lately. However, my troubles fade in comparison with what you are going through, dear Rick. It's great to see the list rallying round to support you and I hope you've been able to log on to see it. We all love you and feel for you and know that you will prevail not only because of you own strength but because you are not alone - we're all there for you. As far as your ex is concerned - well, I can see why you decided to give up on women. She sounds like she's got real problems. Please come back to us soon. We miss you and want you to see how much we love you. Kiwi hugs and prayers Glenys PS Why did you count to three?! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Don't fear the winds of adversity. Remember: A kite rises against the wind rather than with it. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-15/3111 From: Joseph Darwin Stevens Subject: Re: Principles Glenys wrote: "WHY?" J J Dewey wrote: "Question of the day: Let us say that you were visited by an all knowing master, or God itself, and he told you that you could ask any question you wanted. What would you ask?" "How do you balance your chequebook?' or 'How can I best serve?'" Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3112 From: J J Dewey Subject: What Can I Do For My Country? Do our politicians create too many laws or not enough? Are we taxed too much or not enough? Do our elected officials do too much or not enough? Do government programs try to do too much for people or not enough? Do our elected officials seek to please their party leaders or the good of the country as a whole? Do our elected officials represent the will of the people as we desire or other wills? As we begin to talk about how Molecular Politics will change the political systems I want to clarify the fact that this change is not just for the United States but for all the free world. The political problems are very similar in all the democratic nations. They all have liberals and conservatives and the common people all have similar complaints that are being ignored. The transition to a true democracy is expected to be mainly fought out in the United States, but it is always possible that some smaller nation could incorporate the higher principles before we do. A true democracy has never existed in recorded history, but one is on the drawing board of those who watch. The reason I asked the questions mentioned above is to illustrate to the mind of the seeker the nature of the problems we face and to point us in the direction of a true solution. First question: Do our politicians create too many laws or not enough? Most agreed on this that we have too many laws. It is interesting that Jesus came in to a situation where the law was king. There were, for instance, hundreds of silly laws telling the people what was work on the Sabbath. For instance, you could not walk on the Sabbath with sandals that had nails in them because the extra weight would constitute work. Then too you were told how many steps you could take on the Sabbath. If you took more than the allotted number you were working and God would frown on that. Jesus ignored these silly little rules and made fun of them and this infuriated the Jewish leaders. In fact many are still irritated at the guy to the extent that some Jews spit over their shoulder when they hear the name of Jesus. In speaking of the law Jesus taught that he who is full of love automatically obeys all the laws as God intended. The laws of Moses were merely intended to guide us to the Love of Christ and two or more guided by such love will not violate the rights of God or man. The love demonstrated by Christ has been a big benefit for mankind, but we still have a long way to go before it is lifted up in the masses. As we realize this brotherhood and love the need for laws dissipate. Even now we could eliminate 80 to 90% of the laws of the land (in all nations) and the overall effect would be positive. There will be civil laws for some time to come, but they will become fairer and more reasonable. It would be a good idea for each nation to completely rewrite their laws every fifty or one hundred years. Question two: Are we taxed too much or not enough? All were on agreement on this. All the nations tax too much. How do the French feel about being taxed to death over there Xavier? I understand it is worse there than here. Except in times of national threat a nation should be able to live on a tax of ten per cent of our income and the time will come that such a tax will become voluntary like a tithe. Citizens would be happy to give to their nation if they had an enlightened leadership who sought to serve. Question three: Do our elected officials do too much or not enough? Most of you thought that they do not do enough and I agree with you from the angle that you see it. I get the sense that you think they do not do enough for the people and this is true to an extent, but overall I want to present you with the idea that they do too much. Way too much. As proof of this look at what has transpired in the United States over the past year. Both Congress and the Presidency has been nearly paralyzed and have done almost nothing. You hear all these guys saying over and over: "We have to get back to work for the American people." Now have we as a country suffered because Congress and the President has been doing almost nothing? Not at all. Instead we have had a tremendous benefit. While the economies of almost all the other nations have gone downhill the United States is in better shape than ever and the stock market has exploded. As our lawmakers have stayed out of our way the American people have made this country work better than it ever has. All classes of people are better off than they were a year ago. There has been an interesting trend over the years. When Congress comes in session the market goes down and when it is out of session it goes up. The principle is this: The less government does by the use of force the better off are its people. Our government should do much more by inspiring people as John Kennedy did when he said: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Both sides of the spectrum have forgotten those great words. The question people of all nations are asking today is: "What can my country do for me? I want my share." Kennedy's question must be asked again loud and clear if the Kingdom of God is to come. Now Congress and the President are getting back to work we'd better watch out. We will be fortunate indeed if progress in this next year is as good as the last. Question four: "Do government programs try to do too much for people or not enough? is to come." Again, government programs are what our country can do for a few of us at the expense of the many. When the government becomes a true servant of the people then the people will freely serve the government. When the government is "by the people, for the people and of the people" as Lincoln said, then serving the government will be serving our brothers and sisters and when this time comes no forceful government programs will be necessary. Question Five: Do our elected officials seek to please their party leaders or the good of the country as a whole? I think we all agree that elected official who are supposed to represent the will of the people really represent their party leaders. This was really demonstrated in the Clinton trial. Question Six: Do our elected officials represent the will of the people as we desire or other wills? They not only follow party leaders, but the large donors, pressure groups, the media - almost everything but you and me except maybe for a short space before election day. We have now identified the problem. The big question is what is the solution? What can we do to get our lawmakers to listen to our wills? It can be done and we shall present the solution right here in this forum. Hopefully it will renew your faith that positive change is possible. Question: Is it possible to set up a true democracy in the United States (or some other nation)? Is it even desirable? Do the polls give us an idea of how a democracy would vote? JJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3113 From: "xavier" Subject: OT power dream Neocrist wrote: 'The Truth is Ultimate Power to Rule the World, I think. Because if you know that it is you can rule everything, you can destroy, create and so on." There IMO you are wrong. "Truth is power" is strictly true only for an ego:) A man that cuts himself from love and life can say that "truth is power". But he will never (while in this choice) find any real lively truth. Real means to build. Yes power is a grand dream. But where does it lead to? To humbly worship Life :) An example: i may have somewhere available in my books or in my head or in someone I know's head GREAT TRUTHS that give means to do so-called miracles. What about creating a human being out of no matter? What about being able to influence matter in any way by the simple inner human powers? I could heat my house in the winter with simple magic exercises? Well, i have the guideline of the exercise, but to practice it I need balance, and to reach balance, I need to live a responsible harmonious life. And BTW, all these exercises have only one aim: to live that responsible, harmonious life:) It's hard to explain that thru words, but no power madness dream is worth a peck in front of a single woman bearing a child. What will you do with mountains of money? Can you buy love? Can you buy what is only given thru free will? Can you force life to give you what it gives only freely? No. They say that there are ETs that don't have emotions anymore, and they lost the power of life and need to live as vampires. They may have all the technology we don't have, we carry the divine sparkle that makes life possible. Let's not forget this in a race for empty power. Once i had a daydream in which i gave myself all the power i wished for. Absolute power: just wish, and it happens. After half an hour of exploring that reality, I came to the conclusion that no forced thing has any real value, and that the best I could wish was to live a normal human life. Adventure. No pain, no gain, etc.. Real thing. BTW, you seem to ignore the purpose of this list. We're discussing "the immortal", a book that is readable at http://www.freeread.com The author is here with us, and we follow his teachings :) (not that your ideas are unwelcome, every wood gives fuel:) "The Truth can be everything - that I'm saying is truth, You don't believe, then you have Paranoid man. :)D We all know that it is MKULTRA Project, BlueBook and Moondust Projects, we also know UFO Project, we also know that it is Black Book. But if we really know the truth of this Projects and that happened in that (.......) one don't know." "If MY government works the way they say it works, I'm in DEEP trouble. But what do THEY know?" "That's SO stupid only an intellectual could believe it! You ARE an intellectual, aren't you?" "Always lie, even if you want to say the truth. Maybe then that truth will be not lie. "Best Regards, NeoCristal" I couldn't read that above. No place for it in my little mind and soul. I heard about the illuminati already. You more sound like you need to express your feelings than anything else. Have a second try, maybe ;) see you! Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3114 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: What Can I Do For My Country? JJ writes: "We have now identified the problem. The big question is what is the solution? What can we do to get our lawmakers to listen to our wills? "It can be done and we shall present the solution right here in this forum. Hopefully it will renew your faith that positive change is possible." "Question: Is it possible to set up a true democracy in the United States (or some other nation)? Is it even desirable? Do the polls give us an idea of how a democracy would vote?" First, I had to look up the word "democracy". The dictionary says: "1) Government by the people, either directly or through elected reps. 3) majority rule. 4) the acceptance and practice of the principle of equality of rights, opportunity, and treatment." It was originally set up as "for the people, by the people, and of the people", or so many words. And for sure it has been people electing people. Never has there been a King or Dictator. And we do have majority rule, according to Roberts Rules of Order. But do we have the Principle of Equality? I don't think so. So if a democracy means the majority of people practicing a Principle of Equality that would be desirable. Possible? Sure, anything is possible, but that means the majority of the people would be taking responsibility for their own lives to begin with, then for the lives of others to make sure everyone has equality of rights, opportunity and treatment. Just as the people on this list have agreed to moderate ourselves, and we'v stuck to it and done a good job of it, so can a greater community of people, by taking personal responsibility with the greater good of the whole in mind. Possible, but probable? Only the majority will dictate that, once rights, opportunity and treatment are agreed upon as being what a democracy is all about. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3115 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: What Can I Do For My Country? J J Dewey wrote: "Question: Is it possible to set up a true democracy in the United States (or some other nation)? Is it even desirable? Do the polls give us an idea of how a democracy would vote?" Hi Folks, I think, perhaps, that this and other countries have been moving towards what is called a true democracy for quite some time now. And communication is the key. Through satellite technology, internet connectivity, the telephone and the media, the people are communicating with each other as almost never before. I say almost because there is one example in scripture that describes a similar circumstance. It happened after the flood that the tribes of people began to spread over the earth once again. One group of men decided to stop and build a city with a tower that would reach to the heavens. The story goes on to say that the Lord came to look at the city and tower that the men were building. His response was interesting. He said, look, the people of the earth are of one language. Now there will be nothing that is impossible for them. (CWG readers, take note) God's response in this story was to confuse the language of the people, so that no one could communicate with another. And the people scattered. And the city was abandoned. So is it possible to create a true democracy? Yes, I believe it is. Is it desirable? I'm not so sure. At least not under the present circumstances. I've seen too much of what the world calls "fair" to be a big fan of majority rule. I've seen the greed in people's hearts. To think that by giving "the people" exactly what they choose, we will produce a utopian society (or even close), we would have to assume that most of the people are led by Holy Spirit. Now if this were the case, I think I might find myself an ally to the cause. Now, this doesn't mean that I am any great fan of the current plan of government, but there is something to be said for confusion if it stems the tide of poor decision making. But perhaps the form that this true democracy takes is nothing like any form that has ever taken shape. But this has never been shone to me. Or maybe it has. But it doesn't look like anything that is presently possible with all of our nation's governments in place. In this form of government, there are only two laws. And within these two laws are contained all the laws (principles) of God. Has anyone discerned those two laws. I'm sure most of you have. They are "Love God with all your heart". And, "Love your neighbor as yourself". This is government given by God. If we Love each other, there is no longer need of huge government to dictate our restrictions. For whatever we do will be a reflection of Love. If our lives are governed by these principles, why on earth would we need prisons, and welfare, and lobbying groups, and police, and FBI, CIA, DEA, etc., etc., ad nauseum. And so, I ask a question. By what circumstance will the heart of mankind turn towards Love as its guiding principle, rather than greed? For it is only by this that I could ever agree with the idea of true democracy. As for polls indicating how the people would vote, the image that comes to mind first comes from the play/movie "Little Shop Of Horrors". And the line is uttered by the plant. It says, "FEED ME!" Never A Fan Of Human Government, John Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3116 From: John Kosior Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem JJ asks: "Therefore, let me ask these questions to produce seed material. Do our politicians create too many laws or not enough?" To begin, I'll say that I have no politicians. And I feel no loss. As for the laws they create, they are most certainly too many. But this is to be expected as when the institution of American politics grows inordinately large, it must also "do" more, or at least appear to do more. It is a living, breathing, growing entity. As such it does all that it can to assure its continued growth. "Are we taxed too much or not enough?" Not enough. NOT!!! Sorry, but I haven't met anyone who believes themselves under taxed. "Do our elected officials do too much or not enough?" THE elected officials do WAY too much. I don't mean that they are tireless individuals, but that they over step every bound and restriction to "serve" the people. In actuality, what they are doing is criminal. Never have the people voted directly to empower these politicians so. "Do our elected officials represent the will of the people as we desire or other wills?" Both. Or neither, based on their re-election chances. "Do government programs try to do too much for people or not enough?" Key word here is try. If the question were do they DO enough, I'd say no. But do they TRY to do too much? You bet they do. "Do our elected officials seek to please their party leaders or the good of the country as a whole?" Of course this has been covered by all other responses, but to watch congress at work during the Clinton scandals, one must assume that party leaders rule. John Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3117 From: David Curtis Subject: Re: What Can I Do For My Country? J J Dewey writes: "Question: Is it possible to set up a true democracy in the United States(or some other nation)? Is it even desirable? Do the polls give us an idea of how a democracy would vote?" I think it is possible..it all begins with the vote. There are many thousands of us to every one of them. If all of us can come together and make our voice heard, no one can ignore us. Desirable? It depends. Right now, I think we need to get our representatives to abide by the will of the people. I think it would be too time consuming to put every little thing to a public vote. I think overall, that would slow down the flow of government. At least at first. I'm not sure if the current polls give us an idea. I would certainly be interested to hear what you have to say. Maybe there is a better, more efficient way of voting using our current technology, that would speed up the process. I think the way they do it now is slow, and outdated. Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3118 From: NeoCrist Subject: Spirit Life / NT: T'o'L / End of Millennium LabZ IDAL heLL, OK here we go: Jan D. You asked good question to me, and you know, I don't feel any sense about byble authenticality. But I read it all one time, but it was then my brother bought that book and my school teacher said that I must read it. And I did it. And until this day I don't feel any sense. Because I "don't believe." I believe in to the something but not in G-d. Then You say that I think about New Testament - it is truth or lie. I thought that I cannot help to you to answer, but then I sow my old school I thought that maybe until new there working me History teacher, and maybe she will help. And I did it, and now you can read that we wrote about Truth or Lie. Oh ye' why You think that the Millennium will be soon? You think that we all should die, because we not deserved to live on the Earth? Let it be, but I want be where where it will start... because it will be HARDCORE to my soul. You know I love HARDCORE because in this case you can feel a lot of experience. Just like superb suicide. That stupid but cool...:) We live to die, so do it fast, experiently, and with HARDCORE PoWer. (|:-7 Sounds good and crazy, but this is life. And of course Spiritual life, I thinking, I thinking still thinking, because I never thought that it is. Yesterday I talk with 'My Bother' from Vatican and he say that he will help find answer. Today then I was at the University I remember that Spiritual life is something like Quantum Physic plus magnetic fields and something like that. And I take few books from the library and I read it quickly. I found some stuff, but I will answer to your question then I get e-base from the Vatican. I think that day I should know answer. OK I end. Now about 'IDAL heLL' tell me: That kind of experience you got then you died? And again born to be wild. That did you feel at this moment. It was like using DMT Drugs or BeTTer? I think it was HARDCORE if you sow something. And now then you born again maybe your Philosophy change to bed or good side. On which SiDe you are... IDAL heLL your nickname means - 'Rised Deamon from the hell' why? I know it sounds good and superb, but this nick you get after death or not? Below NT: T'o'L? The New Testament: Truth Or Lie? INTRODUCTION 1. Up to this point I have tried to demonstrate the following FACTS: a. Jesus actually lived b. The New Testament has good reasons to be considered as a RELIABLE HISTORICAL DOCUMENT... 1) It was circulated soon after the events took place 2) Archaeology confirms the New Testament record in every area that can be checked 3) The bibliographical test gives us every reason to believe that what we have today is what was written by the original authors 2. But what are we to do with the testimony of the New Testament con-cerning the miracles of Jesus, and the report of His resurrection from the dead? a. Archaeology cannot confirm or deny the truthfulness of such things b. Each of us must decide whether the New Testament at this point is telling the TRUTH, or that a LIE was carefully orchestrated by the eight writers of the New Testament! 3. But are these the only alternatives? That the New Testament is either telling the truth or is a carefully orchestrated lie? [YES! To understand why, consider...] I. A. THE WRITERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT LEAVE US NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE!WHY THERE ARE ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES 1. As Paul explained in his letter to the Corinthians, either Jesus rose from the dead, or he and other "eyewitnesses" are in fact "false witnesses" - 2. Peter, also, states that either the events (like the trans- figuration) occurred as described by the "eyewitnesses", or they are "cunningly devised fables"! - 2 Pe 1:16-18 B. WE 1 Co 15:14-15 CANNOT SAY THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN SINCERELY DECEIVED! 1. Especially in reference to the resurrection of Jesus a. They claim they ate and drank with Him afterwards - b. They claim they saw and touched Him - 1 Jn 1:1-4 Ac 10: 39-41 2. They leave us NO ROOM for saying they were but MISTAKEN or DECEIVED! a. Some skeptics have tried to offer this as an alternative b. That perhaps in their grief and loss over the crucifixion of Jesus they "hallucinated" or saw grief-inspired "visions" of Jesus c. But "hallucinations" and "visions" are highly individualistic experiences 1) One person might see the hallucination or vision 2) But several or many people don't see the same vision at the same time! d. As outlined in the gospels and also 1 Co 15:4-8, the resurrection appearances of Jesus were often witnessed by many at the same time (over 500 on one occasion!) [So they leave us no choice; either the New Testament is a "Book Of Truth," or it is a "Book of Lies."Which is more logical, more rational, to believe? To help us decide,consider...] II. THE IMPLICATIONS IF THE NEW TESTAMENT IS NOT TRUE A. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS A CAREFULLY ORCHESTRATED LIE! 1. We have seen the great accuracy they used in describing events, places, and people (as confirmed by archaeology) - 2. If the record of miracles and the resurrection is false, then they very carefully intertwined fact and fiction! Lk 2:1-5 -- IS IT REASONABLE TO BELIEVE THAT? B. THE AUTHORS SUFFERED EXTREME HARDSHIP FOR WHAT THEY KNEW WAS A LIE! 1. Many people will lie if they can get something out of it (such as money, power) 2. But what did the apostles get out of it? - cf. 1 Co 4:9-13 3. What did Paul get for holding to his testimony? - cf. 2 Co 11:24-29 4. How do we know they really suffered this hardship? a. The fact that the letters of the New Testament were even saved! b. For example, consider the letters 1 & 2 Corinthians... 1) These letters are filled with rebuke of the Corinthians 2) The Corinthians would have every reason not to save these letters which exposed their faults 3) The Corinthians had first hand knowledge as to whether the apostles and Paul really suffered the hardship spoken of in their letters 4) If they knew the accounts of such hardship to be false, they would have quickly destroyed these letters written by a liar who embarrassingly wrote about their problems! 5. So especially the author of half the books of the New Testament (Paul) suffered extreme hardship for a lie, if the New Testa- ment is not true -- IS IT LOGICAL TO BELIEVE THAT? C. THE AUTHORS WHO WERE MARTYRED KNEW THEY WERE DYING FOR A LIE! 1. History and tradition record that: a. JAMES was stoned to death b. PAUL was beheaded c. PETER was crucified 2. If the New Testament is a lie, they went to their deaths KNOWING they were dying for a lie! -- IS IT RATIONAL TO BELIEVE THAT? D. IN SUFFERING AND DYING FOR A LIE, THEY WENT AGAINST EVERYTHING JESUS AND THEY THEMSELVES TAUGHT! 1. "But let your 'yes' be 'yes', and your 'no' be 'no'." - JESUS ( 2. "Therefore, putting away lying, each one speak truth with his neighbor..." - PAUL (Ep 4:25) 3. "Therefore, laying aside all malice, all guile, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking" - PETER (1 Pe 2:1) Mt 5:37) -- DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO BELIEVE THAT? E. IN FACT, THE BOOK WITH THE WORLD'S HIGHEST STANDARD AND LOFTIEST GOALS WAS COMPOSED BY LIARS, FRAUDS, AND DECEIVERS! 1. What book presents a higher standard of love and morality than the New Testament? 2. For example, Jesus' "Sermon On The Mount" (Mt 5-7) and Paul's "Discourse On Love" (1 Co 13) -- CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? CONCLUSION 1. This is what you MUST believe if you do not believe the New Testament when it speaks of the miracles and resurrection of Jesus Christ: a. It is a carefully orchestrated lie! b. The authors suffered extreme hardship for what they KNEW was a lie! c. Those authors who were martyred KNEW they were dying for a lie! d. In suffering and dying for a lie, they went against everything Jesus and they themselves taught! e. And somehow, these liars, frauds, and deceivers came up with a book containing the world's highest standard morality and loftiest goals! 2. I am convinced that those who do not believe the New Testament are those who: a. Have never read the New Testament carefully b. Are not aware of the evidence which supports it as a historical document c. Have not considered the logical implications of simply regarding it as a mixture of fact and fiction! 3. But to those who will read it, I believe that they will find... a. That it has "the ring of truth" to it b. That it will produce the faith necessary to believe in Jesus (cf. Ro 10:17), and through such faith find eternal life (cf. Jn 20:30-31)! 4. There is a saying: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." a. What I have tried to do is remove any obstacles that might hinder anyone from drinking of "the water of life" (i.e., the New Testa- ment) b. But no one can present enough evidence to FORCE someone to read the New Testament if they are determined not to! Have you read the New Testament? Even more important, have you OBEYED the New Testament? Best Regards, NeoCristal Lord Save Our Souls, We are so powerful, that we can create self destruction program. That was that? :) I born to be stupid and I will. Self Descruction formula. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3119 From: NeoCrist Subject: Spirit Life / NT: T'o'L / End of Millennium Editor's note: duplicated post of 3118 Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3120 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem "And I am one of the dunderheads who was fooled by this master liar; I voted for him, twice, no less! Enough said from my end... Tracey" Hi Tracey As the Clinton problem has kept our country in a mess of different opinions, I have turned to the Bible: "Judge not that ye be not judged." In the Lord's prayer, we ask for forgiveness as (in the same way) we forgive. Contemplation on this one is a constant for me. It is so easy to fall back, but when we let things get to us, we have a tendency to loose sight of our main objectives. Go easy. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3121 From: NeoCrist Subject: OOOOooooppppppssss [ Spirit Life / NT: T'o'L / End of Millennium] OOOOooooPPPPpppppsssss Not on this post this msg, I'm sorry. Do bot feel any sense about this msg. OK SORRY ONE MORE TIME. Best Regards, NeoCristal Dance with Shadows Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3122 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: Recognizing the Problem "Judge not that ye be not judged." "In the Lord's prayer, we ask for forgiveness as (in the same way) we forgive. Contemplation on this one is a constant for me. It is so easy to fall back, but when we let things get to us, we have a tendency to loose sight of our main objectives. Go easy. Love, Light, Peace and Harmony Marylin" I know I'm tough on the yahoo; however, I never asked to be president. Anyone who asks for the job needs to be morally above reproach. Clinton is a bottom feeder as far as presidents go, and will likely be remembered, if ya ask me, as the "Bozo the Clown" of American presidents. Judgmental as ever, at least regarding this (oh, well!), Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3123 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: OT - Recognizing the Problem Tracey Hobson writes: "Dear Betty, Glenys, and Folks, I know this is not the forum for trashing Hill and Bill; however,... The man was/is supposed to be our "top cop" (remember civics class? executive, judicial and legislative branches of gov't?). He is supposed to be someone who supports the law of the land, which is that you do not LIE under oath, which he did. He was hardly impeached for sexual misconduct. Give me a break!" Dear Tracy, I was just expressing to Glenys that the sexual misconduct didn't seem to be the major issue with at least 70% of Americans - that the news media played it to the hilt. I am as disappointed in him for lying to the GJ as you are and don't condone that all, but do you honestly believe that the impeachment of our "top cop" would have been the best thing for the country? And he wasn't impeached, he was acquitted, by the way. IMHO, he should have been censored and fined, not completely acquitted - but impeachment? No, I don't think that would have served this country in the least - and obviously neither did the Brotherhood of Light according to JJ. I'm sorry to say it, but politicians have always been politicians, and by their very nature are more self-serving than people-serving. The ones who honestly try to serve the people are left by the wayside, more often than not. Hopefully, this will change in the coming Age, but it will be a slow process of change, I think, and will not happen overnight. "And I am one of the dunderheads who was fooled by this master liar; I voted for him, twice, no less! Enough said from my end..." Could this be the main source for your immense anger - that you feel he made a fool out of you for voting for him - not once, but twice? Well, don't feel alone in that boat - a lot of people are in there with you, including me! Actually, I wasn't voting FOR Clinton per se', but voting for the lesser of two evils at the time, as I saw it. But holding onto anger of any kind toward anyone is self-destructive - it ends up hurting you a lot more than the person you are angry at, so I had to let it go. We should all be saying the Prayer and sending love and healing energy to him & his family, and the country as a whole, instead of wishing for the worst to happen to him. As the old saying goes, be careful of what you wish for - you may get it! :o) With Love & Peace, Betty *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* "We've heard that we are our brother's keeper, but what we need to realize is that we ARE our brother." . . . . Edgar Cayce *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3124 From: Betty Norem Subject: Re: Rick's Ex Glenys Lowery writes: "I've just got my computer back after it ended up in Computer Hospital as a result of Solar Eclipse madness. To make matters worse, my modem ended up in Modem Morgue after catching a terminal (pun intended) illness. I would have coped with reasonable equanimity except that a maniac crashed into me and my car then did a road rage number on me. The brave man did a runner while I was ringing the Police on my mobile phone. Add to that a ghastly mouth infection as a result of a tooth extraction from hell and you can understand why I logged on feeling a little bit annoyed with my circumstances and the self-accusing admonition that I couldn't have been paying enough ATTENTION lately." "My goodness, Glenys - sounds like you've had quite a week yourself and could use some love & light sent your way, too! Consider it done!" "However, my troubles fade in comparison with what you are going through, dear Rick. It's great to see the list rallying round to support you and I hope you've been able to log on to see it. We all love you and feel for you and know that you will prevail not only because of you own strength but because you are not alone - we're all there for you. As far as your ex is concerned - well, I can see why you decided to give up on women. She sounds like she's got real problems." "Please come back to us soon. We miss you and want you to see how much we love you." "Kiwi hugs and prayers Glenys PS Why did you count to three?!" I agree completely - we are all sending you love & light, Rick - hurry home! Love & Blessings, Betty *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* "Love is giving...love grows; love endures; love forgiveth; love understands; love keeps those things rather as opportunities that to others would become hardships." (939-1) . . . . Edgar Cayce *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3125 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Rick's Ex Betty Norem wrote: "Glenys Lowery writes: "My goodness, Glenys - sounds like you've had quite a week yourself and could use some love & light sent your way, too! Consider it done! Thanks Betty - you're a sweetheart! Love Glenys" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To accuse others for one's misfortunes is a sign of want of education. To accuse oneself shows that one's education has begun. To accuse neither oneself nor others shows one's education is complete. ~ Epictetus Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3126 From: "sphinx99" Subject: FW: August 11, 1999 - FREE chapter on-line! EXCERPT: go to http://www.geocities.com/~moeragetes (700 hits in first 24 hours!) "King Arthur, you hold Excalibur; but the others also need items for the Day of Camelot, August 11, 1999," Merlin stated. "Please proceed," Arthur replied. The Host of Camelot rose . . . If you have found the following web site to be of interest, please feel free to forward it to your friends and other mailing lists and newsgroups. Thank you. 11 Aug 99 is "The Most Synchronistic Day of the Millennium!" If any of these things interest you, please check out this web site! http://www.geocities.com/~moeragetes The Destiny of America The Return of Camelot The Rising of King Arthur The Sword used to stab Julius Caesar The Spear used to pierce the side of Christ The Ark of the Covenant re-appears The Temple of King Solomon is re-built The Sphinx embodies The Four Cherubim The Capstone completes The Great Pyramid of Giza SLN Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3127 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: OT - Recognizing the Problem "do you honestly believe that the impeachment of our "top cop" would have been the best thing for the country?" Idealistically, yes. Realistically, probably not. According to the Brotherhood, definitely not. "And he wasn't impeached, he was acquitted, by the way." Yeah, by a Congress that couldn't vote the will of the people even if given a pre-printed program! Looks like a fed judge in Ark. is going to slap him with contempt charges in the Paula Jones case. If you think this is over, think again! He may be wearing prison orange yet (well, I can dream, can't I?). I do realize that resentment is the poison dart that boomerangs back on the one shooting it. But I'm not going to go "into denial" about how I feel. I'll get it out and get over it the healthy way, by talking about it. If other people are offended, I hope they have good therapists! :) Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3128 From: Sharon Jorgenson Subject: Very late talkers Dave, I also got pressure from my husband to have our intelligent daughter tested. I was able to skirt the issue at 2 years old; Then at 3, by mentioning to her doctor that "we" were concerned about Savannah not talking, he replied to give it a few more months. At around three and a half she did start stringing together words (she was already reading books, but wouldn't talk on her own). Even now at four she will refuse to speak when it suits her and is becoming quite a proficient reader. For some people there is such a wall of fear in letting a child develop at his/her own pace, as though it were negligent not to interfere. I wish I knew what to tell you; my *solution* was to stall for time and drag my feet. Wishing you an extra portion of grace, SharonJ Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3129 From: Tracey Hobson Subject: Re: What Can I Do For My Country? "Question: Is it possible to set up a true democracy in the United States (or some other nation)? Is it even desirable? Do the polls give us an idea of how a democracy would vote?" Well, if true democracy lives in little clusters around the country, there is no reason I know of why it might not catch on and spread. I think it is desirable; I mean, after all, isn't that what this country was aiming at in the first place? I'm not sure if the polls reflect how we might vote, and I suppose it depends upon which polls you are talking about. There are polls taken all over the place, like at ABCNews.com, for instance. The polls are interesting, but one must remember that those polls probably reflect the opinions of the more affluent in the country, being that any poll taken on the internet requires a computer, something that not everyone can afford. This is a difficult question I guess, as seems to be indicated by the lack of a response. Tracey Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3130 From: Clive Culbertson Subject: off-topic Dear Friends, I am one of the lurkers on the list. I don't post much as everyone seems to know more about this stuff than I do. I hope you don't mind if I tell you about a programme I'm featured in, in USA on A+E channel on 18th Feb at 8pm central time. It's called The Unexplained and it's about Druids. I am featured in the first segment. Now, when I post some crazy stuff to the list, at least you'll know what I look like. Much Love and Best Wishes, Clive, N.Ireland. http://homepage.virgin.net/clive.culbertson Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-17/3131 From: Greenmamaw Subject: Re: off-topic Thanks Clive... That is most interesting and I for one will be watching. Love, Green Mamaw Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3132 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: off-topic Hi Clive, It was good to hear from you and I hope now you've broken the ice, you'll join in more often. I *loved* your site. I guess it comes from being of crazy Celtic stock with strong Druid links. Several aeons have to pass before the Unexplained gets to New Zealand but I'll keep my eyes open for your appearance. I've always liked Van and the Chieftains but don't know New moon. Have you thought about putting some sound clips on your site? Keep singing - and emailing. Love Glenys Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3133 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: Very late talkers Sharon J writes: "I also got pressure from my husband to have our intelligent daughter tested. I was able to skirt the issue at 2 years old; Then at 3, by mentioning to her doctor that "we" were concerned about Savannah not talking, he replied to give it a few more months. At around three and a half she did start stringing together words (she was already reading books, but wouldn't talk on her own). Even now at four she will refuse to speak when it suits her and is becoming quite a proficient reader. For some people there is such a wall of fear in letting a child develop at his/her own pace, as though it were negligent not to interfere. I wish I knew what to tell you; my *solution* was to stall for time and drag my feet. Wishing you an extra portion of grace, SharonJ" I know this will sound a bit "off the wall" but I can't help wondering if these children who don't want to talk, may be capable of communicating telepathically. I don't know if there is a test or something to find. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3134 From: "xavier" Subject: french babble That's a piece of babble.:) don't bother;) topic: french economic situation. J J Dewey writes: "All were on agreement on this. All the nations tax too much. How do the French feel about being taxed to death over there Xavier? I understand it is worse there than here." It's becoming a well know fact here that you can't even balance your counts without cheating. Laws here are made to be cheated. Now you choose: cheat the gov't or cheat the customers, or both:) AAMOF as a matter of fact) :) LOL when you are being controlled by a tax inspection they assume that you have being cheating, and make you pay for it anyway. The law and economic system are not made for honest citizens, these would look like poor fools. There is a big economic depression here, and in spite of that the country goes on:) You see the stores in the streets being replaced by "fake" ones, meaning covers for mafia. Everybody knows there's a mess, and everybody tries to find the way out. Your molecular theory would be a ball of fresh air in such an atmosphere. I have a friend that would be most interested, but I lost his number. He's an israelite, very gifted with business, and he said to me that he didn't see no good future ahead. He rules a small business because he chose to do so, formerly he was a banking executive with more than a hundred employees. Just to have an aim to fight for might make people like him fight to create a new type of business. Until now he doesn't try to make money anymore, just the necessary for his family. BTW since I came back from Brazil, in 1993, I met and made friends with many self-employed. I kind of began chatting with the people that own their business and are open to talking. "No wonder" told me one of them, a bikes seller, when I reported him that I had heard that business owners were near from initiation, "we're the ones that make things go ahead". "we're aware of everything, we have to be." And yes, for those who don't know over there, income taxes here are above 50 percent. Some people pay about 75%. HHAha if that was a story it would be fun to tell. Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3135 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: OT - Recognizing the Problem Betty Norem writes: "Could this be the main source for your immense anger - that you feel he made a fool out of you for voting for him - not once, but twice? Well, don't feel alone in that boat - a lot of people are in there with you, including me! Actually, I wasn't voting FOR Clinton per se', but voting for the lesser of two evils at the time, as I saw it. But holding onto anger of any kind toward anyone is self-destructive - it ends up hurting you a lot more than the person you are angry at, so I had to let it go. We should all be saying the Prayer and sending love and healing energy to him & his family, and the country as a whole, instead of wishing for the worst to happen to him. As the old saying goes, be careful of what you wish for - you may get it! :o) With Love & Peace, Betty" I see that I was not the only one to vote for the "lesser of two evils" the first time. I also voted for Clinton a second time. I don't cotton to what he may or may not have done (never saw or heard any HARD proof) but I do know that he is the only president in my 62 years to balance the budget. Right after he was voted in the first time, I wrote letters to newspapers all over the country and to I don't remember how many congressmen and to Clinton and Gore concerning the plight of the social security. (I don't think you wa???????---ongress and do things correctly to bring about the balanced budget. I hope he will succeed in repaying the money back to the SS fund that Johnson so neatly "borrowed" from SS to finance the Vietnam war. 'Nuff of this. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3136 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: OT - Recognizing the Problem "I do realize that resentment is the poison dart that boomerangs back on the one shooting it. But I'm not going to go "into denial" about how I feel. I'll get it out and get over it the healthy way, by talking about it. If other people are offended, I hope they have good therapists! :) Tracey" Avoid the poison arrow by forgiving Clinton as Jesus would have done, Forgive yourself for have the feeling. Give thanks to God for His forgiveness that was already given to us on the cross And then set everything on a back burner in an enclosed part of your mind. The most important part of it is to be able to place it in God's hand, His Will be done, and LET GO of it. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3137 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: off-topic "Dear Friends, I am one of the lurkers on the list. I don't post much as everyone seems to know more about this stuff than I do. I hope you don't mind if I tell you about a programme I'm featured in, in USA on A+E channel on 18th Feb at 8pm central time. It's called The Unexplained and it's about Druids. I am featured in the first segment. Now, when I post some crazy stuff to the list, at least you'll know what I look like. Much Love and Best Wishes, Clive, N.Ireland. http://homepage.virgin.net/clive.culbertson" Hi Clive I just highlighted The Unexplained last nite in the TV guide so I wouldn't miss it. Being from Celtic origin and having learned that some of my ancestors were Druids, I knew I would be plunked in front of my TV. Thanks for the reminder. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3138 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: off-topic Marylin Adams writes: "That's tonight! I usually watch A&E anyway, and like the Unexplained program, so I'll be for sure watching for you tonight. THANKS for the warning.....:) LeLona 'Dear Friends, I am one of the lurkers on the list. I don't post much as Everyone seems to know more about this stuff than I do. I hope you don't mind if I tell you about a programme I'm featured in, in USA on A+E channel on 18th Feb at 8pm central time. It's called The Unexplained and it's about Druids." Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3139 From: John Kosior Subject: (OT) Judgment Marylin Adams wrote: "On the Clinton problem and has kept our country in a mess of different opinions, I have turned to the Bible: "Judge not that ye be not judged." Hi Folks I thought I would share another scripture that answers the judgment question in a bit more detail. There are certainly enough references in the bible about not judging, but I like this one. 1 Cor 4:3-5 - 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. These next lines say a whole lot. Don't miss the final outcome of this told in the last sentence of verse 5. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. (NIV) I believe that this reference is extremely telling of how God operates. Circumstances come and then they go. Some seem good and others seem horrific. But we're called to take another road. Rather than taking up our own judgment, we wait. Go about our business with a sure sense that if we will curb our judgment, the TRUE reason for the circumstance WILL BE REVEALED. But the real beauty is what happens at the end of this approach. EACH will receive praise from God. My interpretation of this is that God allows us to choose any circumstance to manifest in our lives, but it's not the "circumstance" that determines our true self, but our reaction. If we will choose to not judge, the "real" reason and lesson will be exposed, and we will have followed the lesson plan to its completion. When that happens, God will say well done. You've escaped the snare of judgment, and each of you who were participants in this lesson have fulfilled your part. As it refers to Rick and Margaret, this is why I chose to send the energy of Love to both. Not to feed the lower energies of anyone, per se, but to approach the situation with the innocence of a child. To say to God, Not my will, but yours. Knowing that if we allow that will to play out, "At that time, EACH will receive praise from God". Have a beautiful day Folks. John Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3140 From: Marylin Adams Subject: Re: (OT) Judgment "is that God allows us to choose any circumstance to manifest in our lives, but it's not the "circumstance" that determines our true self, but our reaction. If we will choose to not judge, the "real" reason and lesson will be exposed, and we will have followed the lesson plan to its completion. When that happens, God will say well done. You've escaped the snare of judgment, and each of you who were participants in this lesson have fulfilled your part. Thanks, John, for your very helpful further explanation. I always enjoy and need to hear the thoughts of others in order to get myself "online". Now, if I could just succeed in training my subconscious to twitch my eye or something when a situation develops that I know I don't want to make judgments. I told myself to "practice what I preach" after hitting the send button. Marylin Post No. keys-l: /1999-02-18/3141 From: J J Dewey Subject: Molecular Politics Part I Some have suggested that talking about business or politics may be a turn off for the group and we should perhaps only talk about metaphysical principles, but we must come to the realization that many of the new Aquarian energies deal with business and politics and to resist the energies of reform is to retrogress back to the Age of Pisces just as much as the born again religions seek to do. We must consider that business and politics influences our lives perhaps more than any other two items. We work 40 to 100 hours a week directly involved in business and then as a consumer we stay involved to some degree in our non working hours. Then political decisions have an effect upon our lives 24 hours a day. If we do not do our part to influence the political systems so our freedoms are preserved the day could come when those who wish to discuss dreamy spiritual ideals will be burned at the stake. The Age of Aquarius is upon us and the opportunity is here to strike a death blow to the enemies of freedom so we can once and for all see the kingdom of God established on the earth. It is therefore my duty to present you the needed changes that the world is crying out for whether my message is popular or not. We have asked some questions revealing political problems. Now is the time for solutions. One point we all agree on is this. The legislators in the United States and all other free countries do not represent the will of the people to the satisfaction of the people. The common people everywhere seem to feel somewhat betrayed by those who are expected to represent their interests. We find that instead of representing the interests of the people they either represent their own interests, the interests of party leaders or some other entity. This seems to be a problem that we have all accepted as a necessary evil, but the true spiritual teachers and dreamers of the race do not accept flaws such as this as a permanent thing. Such people will say along with the late Robert Kennedy: "Some people see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask, why not?" Instead of just accepting the necessary evils of our society and wondering why they have to be, let us elevate our minds to a higher level and dream of things better and ask: Why not? Why not have a political system where the people are truly represented to the extent that they are satisfied that one voice is as important as another? Just because this is not the case now does not mean that the lights of the world cannot make creative change and make the dreams of the ages come true. Even though many feel in their hearts and minds that a true democracy would be a wonderful thing there are many intelligent people who oppose it on an intellectual and philosophical basis, but I wish here to show that this basis is founded in illusion. In the United States (and many other nations) pure democracy is opposed for two main reasons: (1) It is not constitutional. We have a Republic that calls for a representative government where a one person is elected to cast a vote for the many. (2) The polls that are continuously taken now illustrate that average John Q. Public is ill informed and that the majority will often support silly, immoral or dangerous notions. Even Hitler ran around 70% in the polls in his age and in this one about 70% of the populace do not seem to want Clinton punished even if he committed a crime. Objection One: A true Democracy can function within the framework of our existing Constitution. Nothing has to be altered in the original document, as we will illustrate in this treatise. We will clarify this as we proceed in this treatise. Objection Two: As we read about the various polls taken past and present it does seem at times that John Q. Average is misinformed, sometimes even a little unbalanced and certainly not one to whom we wish to trust the destiny of the nation. If the polls are any indication of how a true democracy would vote then it does seem wise to be against it. Let us dispel this illusion by one statement of fact: A true democracy is not a poll and the results of the will of the people expressed in it will be much more logical and beneficial for the whole than a rule-by-poll would be. Why is this? Because the method of obtaining the vote is very different between the two. There are three differences. (1) In a democracy all who desire to vote are represented whereas in a poll only a very small percentage voice their opinion. (2) In a true democracy a person votes out of his own initiative because he knows and feels something about the issue, but in a poll he uses no initiative, but is contacted by a pollster. Many of those contacted through a poll would not be informed enough to even have a desire to vote in a democracy. Let us point out that in a true democracy the citizen is not forced to vote, but all who desire have the privilege of voting. This means that those who are ill informed and do not care about government will usually not vote. Thus in a democracy you will have a much more intelligent voting populace than you have in a poll. This truth is illustrated by comparing polls taken on the internet verses polls taken by telephone. Internet polls are much more representative of how the results of a democratic vote would be than a telephone poll because those who respond are using their initiative to make the contact and are involved enough to be concerned about the issue. As you compare similar issues responded to by regular polls and internet polls you will notice a huge difference in the direction of common sense for the internet polls. For instance in the OJ trial regular polls had the public fairly evenly divided on his guilt or innocence, but in the internet polls people overwhelmingly thought he was guilty from the beginning. During the Clinton trial around 70% of the people were supposed to be supporting his acquittal but among internet voters the percentage was more like 45%, a huge difference. It is interesting to note that polls have gotten less reliable over the years rather than more. I remember way back to the campaign of Nixon and Kennedy that the polls had then both in a dead heat. It was so close that few dared guess who the winner would be. The interesting thing here is that is just what happened. It was one of the closest elections in history just as the polls predicted. Now let us look at the last national election. Most pollsters were off about 10%. That's an error level about twenty times as high as the polls were back in 1960 when technology was nowhere near what it is today. Then when the Republicans took the majority the results were contrary to any prediction from polls. Why the big difference? The answer is that in its infancy the polls were used in a fairly logical and sincere effect to find the truth whatever that may be. Then one day it occurred to the powers that be that people were influenced by the polls. No one likes to look stupid and if it appears that everyone thinks XYZ is true then one may as well go along with the idea, especially if he is not sure his opinion is right to begin with. Thus began the "everybody-thinks-this-way-and-so-should-you" polling concept. This new direction in polling does not reveal the true minds of the thinking public, but instead is a tool for influencing public opinion. The power of influence on the non thinking public of the "everybody-thinks-this-way-and-so- should-you" concept is very powerful and very much full of illusion. Remember the Milgram experiment? The subjects were willing to fry a man's brains out because of the demand of an authority and also the implanting of the idea that other subjects were doing the same thing. These poor dupes were willing to risk the electric chair just to fit in. This illustrates how powerful the "fitting in" principle is and why the polls can become a dangerous weapon against real democracy or any representative system. In the Sixties the polls were generally worded to find the truth, whatever that may be. Now at the turn of the century the polls are carefully worded so predetermined results will be obtained. In addition to this many polls use a carefully selected group of people whose opinion is already established. Let us create an example of how a poll may be used to promote illusion. Let us pick the topic of education. This is a vulnerable one for the masses, as everyone wants to do all they can to insure that our kids get the best in education, even if it calls for a sacrifice. Imagine that a group of Congress people want to pass a big spending bill for Boondoggle project 473 and they fear the public would be enraged at such a waste. Therefore, they decide to attach the spending for this project as a rider attached to an education bill because everyone loves and supports education. They therefore whip up a billion dollar education bill that sounds good, but is, in reality, a complete waste of money. It turns out that almost all the money goes toward the creation of more administrators and more cushy benefits to current leaders. Maybe one percent of the funds goes to benefit the teachers and the kids. The administrators are looking forward to using the extra money for educational "seminars" in Hawaii and the Bahamas. Now begins the presentation and promotion. Congressional members who favor the bill present it as an education bill, money for "our kids," "our future," money that will help us catch up to other enlightened nations. Immediately all educational leaders join in support of the bill because they (the administrators, not the teachers) will greatly benefit. They immediately start repeating the mantra that this bill is "for the children," and do their best to make anyone who opposes it as appearing to "hate kids." A handful of honest legislators actually read through the bill, see through the illusion and realize that it is a complete waste of money. As soon as their views are announced they are pounced on by supporters of the bill as being "against education." They are also accused of "hating the kids." Shortly after these mantras are circulated a poll is commissioned by the supporters of the bill. Here are the questions: (1) Do you support the XYZ education bill which will give more money to our schools so they can raise the educational level of our kids? (2) Do you approve Congressmen Smith and Jones who are against the bill? Now when the uninformed are called and hear these questions they think within themselves, "sure I'm for education. Let's spend the money." Then in response to the second question they automatically think that Smith and Jones must be about as low as you can get for being "against the kids." Next the results of the poll (which is overwhelmingly for the bill and against Smith and Jones) is given to the media. Then the media without questioning or research announces the results and pretty soon the majority of the people are overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and see Smith and Jones and public enemy number one. Now Smith and Jones who are the only ones in public favor of the truth are totally on the defensive and every time they are interviewed by the media they are approached in an attack dog method and find that they spend all their time in defense rather than explaining their position. Finally Smith and Jones withdraw into the woodwork thinking that if they keep quiet they can at least preserve what little image they have left. Finally the actual vote takes place and the two pork spending bills pass the house and goes to a Senate and President that does not dare reject it. Then when the next election comes around those who voted against the bill are attacked as being anti education. Now this is a fictional account, but it represents a political process that is repeated over and over again and supported by an uninformed public. It illustrates to us the great present day problem with the polls, but such problem will not be perpetuated by a true democracy. Ins