1998 - WEEK 48 Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/632 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: The Immortal-Ruthless Welcome to the most dynamic, informative, life-changing mailing list on the internet! Glad you're here, Ruth! I'm looking forward to your insights. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/633 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Beast R-Us J J Dewey wrote: "Now for a closing question: What other areas besides religion is the beast at work? Give an example where the beast is in control." "Public schools...at least in the US." Diane Which has me thinking about history and the way it is and is not presented to us. We see a few branches but the view of the trunk that's being displayed to us is pretty warped. I was also thinking about the internet and how much and in what ways it possibly could control us... Or how easily we might let that happen, without noticing it. Hmmmmm...? :) Muchos amore, Samu Ps. oops, I just read my mails further and noticed you have already talked about the educational system. Okay... :) Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/634 From: "byrdz" Subject: Where's The Beast The Beast is at work heavily in relationships, especially those working on their spiritual paths. My husband and I both have lots of anger we are dealing with and that seems to be an area that can be wide open to the dark forces if we disagree on something. We can be having a great day, then, boom, all of a sudden the whole atmosphere changes when one thing is said the wrong way. We are both very sensitive and attuned to each others vibration, even to the point of knowing what the other is thinking most of the time and sometimes saying and doing the same things. So you might think, where the conflict? Well it comes in a flash, out of nowhere, voices of hate and conflict until you are struggling to find the immense love we share together. Sometimes before it's over we have said things to each other that would only be aimed at your worst adversary. We have a saying "united we stand, divided we fall" and believe me the dark ones know that. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/635 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Beast R-Us I wrote: "Which had me thinking about history and the way it is and is not presented to us. We see a few branches but the view of the trunk that's being displayed to us is pretty warped." I want to add that the thing about how we are led to see ourselves is rather funny. Not only is our past displayed under a shady light, but our present time is also viewed for us from a perspective that has its focus somewhere totally elsewhere than in the now. I mean, it is my understanding that we are being told so little of what really is going on in the world (not to mention *why* things are going on), what kind of technology we really already have, what we have already done with our true current state of development in different areas of life and its mysteries and so on. It can be rather hard to find yourself when the perspective you're given is so far off. I guess after all it is not funny at all. Heh. :) One means for beast to keep us under control: money. For example, I am not so sure what the benefits are and who the ones are to benefit from the forthcoming unified currency that's gonna be in use all over Europe in a few years. I don't really see a dude like myself gain much from an 'improvement' like that. But obviously somebody has an agenda here, and I'm a part of their game, simply because I am here and now. On the other hand, what my role is up to me, I have a choice. I'm gonna keep my eyes and heart open and not get fooled :) Being my own authority, Samu "Just remember not to forget and you'll be fine... but you already know this, don't you?" Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/636 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Authority Explained Shania wrote: "I suggest that we as individuals have to find for ourselves what makes us happy. And once we find that happiness we should seek the perfect mate and build a strong relationship through a spiritual bond. Only if the spiritual bond exist the two people will be happy throughout eternity. Peace and happiness Shania" Hello Shania, I mostly agree with you :) And you say it in the right order too, first happiness and then relationship, whereas most people go into it the other way around. I wonder though, what if the state of perfection that a pair share becomes something else, changes its form over time? Or if a couple who shared an idea of the perfect state later notice that there have become 2 different but equally perfect perfections? :) Musingly yours, Samu :D Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/637 From: "Diane Linen" Subject: Re: Beast R-Us It occurs to me that insurance companies and labor unions are a huge part of the control of us. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/638 From: "Rod Simon" Subject: Re: Beast R-Us An example of the beast being in control is in the publicly held for profit corporation. I remember the example of Ford Motor Company. One of its cars had a gas tank that would explode on impact when struck from the rear. In calculating the prospective future company profits, the executives decided it was cheaper to pay the death claims resulting from the gas tanks blowing up than it was to recall and replace the gas tanks. The very survival of the executives was thought to be based on the profit the corporation would make. Rod Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/639 From: "Diane Linen" Subject: Re: Beast R-Us That would be the Pinto. I had a boyfriend who had one. Also Chevrolet trucks that were hit from the side, the gas tanks were not protected. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/640 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Beast R-Us I have had 2 bad experiences inside the internet. Bad, but good, because I learned from those experiences. Both revolved around mailing lists. Now my friends say "there you go again" because I'm on this mailing list. But this list feels so much different from the other 2. We do have to be very diligent in who/what we meet on the internet. I was searching for fulfillment. I found one place that I thought would meet my criteria. All they wanted was money. The second place I found excited me more, and I thought I had found what I was looking for. All they wanted was my soul. This list teaches to look within for all answers and fulfillment. This list is a way of service. LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/641 From: Alice Despard Subject: animal vs. human right use of authority "Why is he (you females are probably happy to call this one a "he") seen by John to be a beast? Why didn't John see some great king, dictator or devil man rise up out of the sea? Why a beast?" "Hint: How is the right use of authority different between animals and human beings?" My answer to the question is this: When animals flex their authority, it almost always involves the inflicting of fear on other animals--establishment of territory, rights to access a mate involving scaring off or prevailing physically over rivals, mothers swatting their offspring to keep them in line or growling to keep predators away from their babies. Then again, bees communicate with authority about the location of nectar, a merely informative process, not fear-based, but based on the intelligence of instinct. So, (thinking aloud here), what defines the right use of authority in humans? Right use of authority as expressed through human beings should always be love- based, not fear based. You can see Love and Fear as being two primal emotions that are polar opposites of each other. As the animal kingdom evolves, it learns to love and learns to use authority with love and not merely instinctual fear. Humans also use fear to inflict authority, to manipulate, etc. Fear works its authority over humans only if they allow their bestial, fear-based, "fight or flight" selves to submit to such authority. Christ acknowledged only Love as His authority and the well from whence came His authority over others. Peace, Alice Despard Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/642 From: BETTY NOREM Subject: The Beast, etc. Hello Fellow Seekers, I know I've been pretty silent so far and I'm behind everyone else on the list in extending an opinion on the Beast. I really don't mean to be contentious or question J. J.'s answer (or anyone else, for that matter), but here are my thoughts on the subject, for whatever it's worth. Maybe I just can't accept Authority as being the answer because it seems to be too easy - any & all comments are welcome. :o) JJ: "Here is what we have established. The beast represents the energy of unjust, unearned blind authority." I may be splitting hairs here, but I would think that the Beast indicates the animal or lower nature of mankind. The "Beast of the Bottomless Pit" symbolizes the desire-mind which is the adversary of the Spirit. It is energized by the desire-nature never satisfied - i.e., "bottomless". The number six is a number of completion, and 666 indicates the completion of nature on the 3 lower planes - i.e., the lower mental, astral, & physical planes, which 3 completely organized states, make up the desire-mind embodied - or "the Beast". It should also be remem-bered that human consciousness is only on the mental plane. ("The number 6 is a perfect number in itself and not because God created all things in six days. Rather the inverse is true - God created all things in six days because this number is perfect, and it would remain perfect even if the work of the six days did not exist." - St. Augustine.) JJ: "He was created "out of the sea" and the sea represents the multitudes of the people of the earth." In the same context of my idea that the Beast represents the lower, desire nature of mankind. The fact that human consciousness is only on the mental plane, it would follow that "He was created out of the sea" would indicate that he is created from the collective mind of mankind, and that the Sea is a symbol of this. Just my humble opinion. Betty A comment on Orthodox religion & churches: I know what you mean about not finding any answers at church - I used to find myself getting so irritated at the very narrow view that most of them have of God, and the fact that they seem to stress the fear of God instead the love of God. That "God's gonna get you" mentality is impossible for me to buy. But I have become a little more tolerant in my old age and now believe that everybody seeks and finds whatever it takes to fulfill their own level of spiritual evolution. So all of these different churches are meeting the needs of a lot of people - I just don't happen to be one of them, I guess, since I can't find the answers that I'm looking for there. I love this list - it's like I've come home!! Betty Gender in The Song: "What do you think of substituting the word "Creator" for Father?" I don't understand all of the disturbance about gender in The Song. It seems to me the whole point is being missed when our thoughts can't get beyond that - isn't this our gigantic human EGO rearing it's ugly head - i.e., the BEAST? I agree with LeLona when she says "I think it is a universal title that has a universal meaning, nothing personal or gender related". Betty Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/643 From: J J Dewey Subject: Ten Horns Let's continue with the "ten horns and ten crowns". These exist in this seventh and final head of this period. Within this seventh head or kingdom there are ten divisions John saw as ten kingdoms: Additionally it is written: Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. Notice that in the past the beast always overcame the saints (or lights of the earth); but now the ten horns of the beast shall be overcome by the Christ I Consciousness? The most astute Bible scholars think the ten horns represent Ten European nations who will combine to make one superpower from which the beast will emerge. The trouble is that these do not correspond closely to the scriptures including the fact that there are now eleven members. The ten horns are dual which duality has a correspondence to the two horns of the second beast. The first part of the duality is ten divisions of political thought and consciousness on the earth. To give you an idea of the direction we are looking the first one is North America. What are the other nine? The second aspect are the spiritual divisions. As a hint, one of these is the Roman Catholic Church. What are the other nine? These are called kingdoms as seen by John because by the subtle use of authority they can still herd us as animals just as much as did the kings of old. Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets? Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/644 From: J J Dewey Subject: Rick's Postings I've finally taken the time to read Rick's postings on the way the beast gains power and found them very interesting. If you haven't read them yet do so. Keep up the good research Rick. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/645 From: J J Dewey Subject: Havara I'm sure we all found Ruth's letter very interesting. The fact that she had such an encounter with dark forces indicates that she is a "lightworker" and on the verge of an expansion of usefulness in the field of service. I would advise her to put full attention on the positive aspects of the spiritual work as if negativity does not exist, yet be prepared as if it does. She was chanting: havara havara havara havarum This is not part of a language as we understand language, but is a part of a method of invocation understood by some of the ancients. She probably retrieved this from a past life memory as it was one of the best phrases from all her past to use to call upon the power of God for help. Havara basically stands for "God the Father" and Havarum is a symbol of the Trinity. There is more to this but the full details are a part of the final set of keys. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/646 From: (Aster) Subject: Psychic Art : introduction Hello Spirit List! This is to inform you about my new website Psychic Art. With Psychic Art you are invited to experience the inner world of Dutch author, visionary-, and spiritual artist Aster sasa Anstar, who is me (?!) http://www.cybercomm.nl/~cyberspc/imnri.html. "The art form itself is known as automatic drawing in parapsychology. My Art is the result of a physical automatism, as that requires a functioning independent from intelligent stimuli equipped with a will of its own." That is exactly what you will experience when you visit Psychic Art! Having lived with my drawings over the past 4 years, I see them as children and myself as a spirit plotter. I intend to brake through these barriers. Do the same work but in the Light rather than the darkness. I have seen and experienced enough of the other side. Those who dwell in the dark are numbered in the billions. They need to be released. Not many people know about this kind of spiritual communication, this expression of ascension, but with Psychic Art I hope to make that connection. If you please, have a look at my website and leave a message in the mail: Psychic Art: http://www.cybercomm.nl/~cyberspc/index.html Rgds., Aster. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/647 From: J J Dewey Subject: Lower Nature Betty Writes: "I may be splitting hairs here, but I would think that the Beast indicates the animal or lower nature of mankind. The "Beast of the Bottomless Pit" symbolizes the desire/mind which is the adversary of the Spirit. It is energized by the desire-nature never satisfied - i.e., "bottomless"." I do not see any disagreement here for the beast is of the lower nature and the lower nature is controlled by authority and the authoritative control is the keynote of the chapter. When we are finished I think we will all see as one because it will make a lot of sense. Her explanation of 666 is the closest so far, but won't comment on it until we get on into the chapter. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/648 From: "byrdz" Subject: Beast In Education I have, what seems like forever, been against the way our educational system is set up. It is so full of old, old history and repetitive past, out-dated material. It leaves no room for creativity of young minds, to say nothing of the closed-minded approach to any kind of soul-creativity, anything that the soul or higher self wants to convey. Which is what education should be about. It's another area that is stagnated and at a standstill. That's why all the young people are rebelling. There is no stimulation for young minds, no outlet for freedom of expression. To many rules and not enough freedom to pursue what is in the heart and soul. Sounds like the government, doesn't it? No free will, no room for change and change is what spirit is all about. Love, Light, Peace & Power Ruthless :the ruthless pursuit of truth in spirit, hence my nickname, just in case any of you are wondering. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/649 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Beast In Education Ruth said, "Sounds like the government, doesn't it? No free will, no room for change and change is what spirit is all about." The government sets the curriculum. Students are required to learn by memory whatever the state says they must in order to pass. If incorrect information is found in the state approved texts (and it is) the student must still give that as truth or he won't pass. I have, at times, had to go to the school and point out major errors in texts which caused my daughter and her cousin to get incorrect marks on papers, even though they gave the True answer. When individual teachers are shown these errors, they will adjust the grade. Alas, most students don't have parents that are willing to challenge anything as big as a school system. Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/650 From: "TwinStorms" Subject: Re: Ten Horns JJ wrote: "Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets?" Ruth wrote; "Sounds like the government, doesn't it? No free will, no room for change and change is what spirit is all about." Bingo, the government's influence on the educational system has brought education to an all time low. I believe the beast controlling this system are the Unions that are controlled by the fear that the government will take away its influence and power. Hmmm, the Beast giving power to the Beast. The Unions, priests and prophets would be the N.E.A. Officers and Members. Their Bible would be their tenets and contracts they keep with the government. MHO Light, Love and Power One for All and All for One! TwinStorms AKA James Bryan Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/651 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Check out Mailing List: The Keys of Knowledge List For all the new members, our operator, Rick, has an experimental list of all members and if you have any information at all listed in Spiritweb's personal info it Rick's listing will access the info area. That way we can read about each other, whatever you want us to know about you. Check it out. LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/652 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Ten Horns J J Dewey wrote: "Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets?" Stab in the dark.. Bible = Text Book. Students must accept everything in those books as gospel, because they couldn't possibly be wrong, could they? Priests - Teachers. They are educated in these text books. Prophets - (Hard one) School superintendents? They are the ones in charge, therefore their word cannot be questioned. I'm probably a long way off. I'm a little blocked tonight, as it has been one of those days. Hopefully, I've helped spark someone's memory, and they can get the correct answer. -- Peace and Love, Dave Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/653 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: BEAST and the EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM J J Dewey wrote: "Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets?" I am going to say that this is tied closely with government, at least as far as public schools in the US are concerned. The Secretary of Education -- along with the Department of Education -- has determined what the public school system will do and how it will accomplish the tasks. (This body of laws would be considered the educational system's bible). For each school system within the US, elected school boards and appointed school superintendents interpret the Dept. of Education's edicts and how best to apply them in their own "temples of learning". (These people would rank among the educational system's prophets). It is then up to the teachers (as the educational system's dutiful priests) to carry out these grand designs. ~B. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/654 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Check out Mailing List: The Keys of Knowledge List Actually, the member's list mentioned by LeLona is automatically maintained by robots at Spiritweb (thank goodness for me), I don't have to do it. It is, as she says, a great place to read about the members that have been thoughtful enough to tell us a little about themselves. Only a small percentage has provided this info, so far. You can go log on at Spiritweb and update this info any time. Your Phone and snail-mail address is not made public, only the description of yourself and your webpage, if you have one, can be viewed by others. This is done on the personal info page; when you've filled it out, be sure to go to the bottom of the page and click the update button, so the robots can make the changes. For my part, I have been keeping an up-to- date list of the names and e-mail addresses of all. If there is enough interest in having this list, I could begin posting the latest rev. of this list, say on a weekly basis. Sometimes, you may want to write to individuals directly, instead of on list, to make new friends and share mutual interests, that may be off the topics being discussed. Who knows, maybe even some romances could develop here. I can think of no better place than here to find and form life-long friendships and partnerships. After all my past strike-outs, I tend not to go looking, but I already feel some close bonds developing with some of the folks here. There is something VERY special growing here, and I know I'm not the only one that has noticed. Many of us have begun the work of reaching out to others, not yet on the list, to bring them into our family. They do this joyfully, at the mere suggestion from JJ, not because he commands it, but because of the joy and peace in their own hearts tells them to gather in the lights. I thank God, every day, that we are finding each other. Your friend, Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/655 From: Diane Linen Subject: The Trouble Tree The Trouble Tree The carpenter I hired to help me restore an old farmhouse had just finished a rough first day on the job. A flat tire made him lose an hour of work, his electric saw quit and now his ancient pickup truck refused to start. While I drove him home, he sat in stony silence. On arriving, he invited me in to meet his family. As we walked toward the front door, he paused briefly at a small tree, touching the tips of the branches with both hands. When opening the door, he underwent an amazing transformation. His tanned face was wreathed in smiles and he hugged his two small children and gave his wife a kiss. Afterward he walked me to the car. We passed the tree and my curiosity got the better of me. I asked him about what I had seen him do earlier. "Oh, that's my trouble tree," he replied. "I know I can't help having troubles on the job, but one thing for sure, troubles don't belong in the house with my wife and the children. So I just hang them up on the tree every night when I come home. Then in the morning I pick them up again. "Funny thing is," he smiled, "when I come out in the morning to pick'em up, there ain't nearly as many as I remember hanging up the night before." Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/656 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Ten Horns J J Dewey wrote: "Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets?" The bible would be their textbooks because they "seem" to be the final word in the classroom. The students must answer questions based upon the texts. The newest texts barely contain anything of a historical fact these days, they gloss over much of what actually happened. The Constitution is no longer contained in textbooks in Texas. Students can't seem to do simple math anymore. Reading is a skill many lack to any degree. Students are no longer challenged and mediocrity is encouraged. In playground athletics, the children are not supposed to win any longer. They don't want the kids to feel as though they have achieved less than anyone else. Most of the kids can't win a race so no one wins now. Competition is out, mediocrity is in. The school systems these days want to pass "cookie cutter" kids.... they must all be like each other. I'd say that school boards which hire teachers and administrators are feeding the beast. Parents who don't encourage their children to achieve or aren't involved in their children's education are feeding the beast. Government (City, state, federal) feeds the beast when they control the money that schools receive so they are keeping the quality of education down. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-23/657 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Ten Horns J J Dewey wrote: "Also none one has yet answered the question as to how the beast controls the educational system... Where is their Bible, Priests and prophets?" I forgot to fully answer the question here. The bible would be their textbooks. The priests would be the teachers and the prophets would be the administrators..the school boards and the government which hand down the rules the schools must adhere to. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/658 From: Rod Simon Subject: Key Group Two of my children go to school. One is an eighth grader, the other is a sixth grader. They are exceptional athletes that want to win, and know how to win! They are fine boys that the schools cannot turn into an image of a beast, despite beliefs to the contrary. That is because they have learned to question most everything. They may certainly be perceived as a beast by the beholder, but that does not make it so. Is it better that they learn the Constitution in Texas or perhaps, the Magna Carta? Is spirituality and its teachings, which we do not get in school, superior to the regular school curriculum? Or how about religion? And if so, why? Schools use grades to reward and to punish students. If the student does poorly, he is destined not to "succeed". The teachings are the grading system, the ability to adjust, and the authority figures. Is it better to blindly follow the Pope or to blindly follow J.J. Dewey? Or perhaps to blindly follow John the Beloved? I think the purpose of these exercises is to expand our ability to think critically. At least that is how I choose to use them. I am not here to please someone with my guesses, hoping that I can get it right. To think critically means to "pray without ceasing," as the scriptures say, and it involves seeking understanding as we go. I agree that the schools seem to suffer from teachings that are often irrelevant. But that is where we step in to challenge both the schools and our children. To think that the schools will prepare our children for a spiritual life is absurd. We have all been through the school's system! Thanks for sharing your time and energy with this message and all of yours. Rod Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/659 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Blindly Following Rod Posted (message 658) in part: "I think this is the stance J.J. Dewey wants all of us to have regarding anyone who claims to be teaching the "truth". Another group that you did not mention was the alleged "Brotherhood", or "Brotherhood of Light", or "Great White Brotherhood." This seems to be where J.J. and John the Beloved are getting their instruction. Do they really exist? I do not know." Many of the people on this mailing list talk about the "Light" or the "Kingdom within" or "soul contact", etc. Since I have not experienced any of these things I have no idea what they are talking about. I am not saying they are imagining these things. When I experience these things first hand, perhaps then I will understand. By the way, when you see someone end their post with "Namaste" I think it means something like "the Divinity within me salutes the Divinity within you" or something like that. It is possible that not all who come to this list are coming from the New Age arena. If this definition of "Namaste" is in error, please correct me. Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/660 From: "tootz" Subject: hi Hi, I am new to the list and thought that I would just say hello to everyone. I am still in the "lurking" stage but have enjoyed many of the posts thus far. I have read The Immortal Book 1 and enjoyed it thoroughly. I also had several "dreams" (seemed real to me!!) after reading it. Anyway just a short hello. Sincerely, Bev Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/661 From: J J Dewey Subject: Blind Following Rod Simon wrote: "Is it better to blindly follow the Pope or to blindly follow J.J. Dewey? Or perhaps to blindly follow John the Beloved?" I was hoping I had made my position on this clear in previous posts by even praising some for disagreeing with me. It is not good to blindly follow me, Clinton, Newt, Jesus, Buddha or anyone else without thinking it through and preferably checking with the soul for final confirmation. Do not feel uneasy about disagreeing with me or others on the list. As long as it is done with sincerity there should be no problem. However, be prepared for the possibility that your disagreement will not be blindly accepted either. "Let me repost something I have previously written about authority in teaching:" "Let's say you want to learn Spanish and two teachers surface who say they can teach you. They both seem equally convincing, but the truth is that one of them knows the language well and the other one does not. If you accept either as an authority just because he or someone else tells you to, then you have a 50-50 chance of getting a bad teacher. What do you do? You test the teacher. Have him actually speak some Spanish. Give him several paragraphs from English and see if he can translate and then check out the translation for correctness. Finally, you will establish in your mind that one of them can truly teach you. Once you have tested your teacher then you do not have to check up on him in every little detail; but when you have learned the basics and want to go to advanced Spanish, you do need to check again to see if he has anything more to teach you or if you need to move on to another teacher." You also write: "Two of my children go to school. One is an eighth grader, the other is a sixth grader. They are exceptional athletes that want to win, and know how to win! They are fine boys that the schools cannot turn into an image of a beast, despite beliefs to the contrary. That is because they have learned to question most everything. They may certainly be perceived as a beast by the beholder, but that does not make it so." Despite their natural rebelliousness, children rely heavily on authority. So the only way they can escape blind obedience is from a strong influence from good parents. It sounds like you are trying to do that. The truth is the authority of the beast is very subtle and affects us all. I think you will find this discovery quite interesting as we proceed. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/662 From: J J Dewey Subject: Recognizing The Beast How to Recognize the Beast. You have given some good answers about the beast (blind authority) in our schools. However, some have pointed out the effects and symptoms of the beast rather than the beast itself. Blind authority is administered through government organizations, unions, teachers organizations, textbooks, school administrators, principles and even the teachers themselves. Remember the beast is a power rather than a simple object we can point out with black and white certainty. This blind authority is a shape shifter moving from place to place. You have to learn to recognize it and then be eternally vigilant to rise above it. Here is how to find where the beast is raising its ugly head. First realize that a just set of rules or laws is not necessarily from the beast. A certain amount of rules and laws are necessary. Order and stability in society demands that we respect all laws and rules supported by an informed majority. But you can spot the beast when you operate within those laws and rules and still get in trouble. Observe how the line of authority is administered and you can then run down the workings of the beast. The student. He is told by the teacher that he is supposed to be learn, be creative and use common sense. So for political science class he writes a paper presenting a totally different view than his teacher has. He has followed the rules and was creative, did good research and all his facts are reliable, but the teacher gives him a D and refuses to discuss the merits of the paper. The Teacher A certain teacher teaches everything required by the rules, but goes the extra mile and also teaches some Phonics which is not the standard authorized method but it seems to work better than anything else available. He is then called in by administration and told to cool it if he wants to keep his job. Next, this same rebel teacher publishes a letter in the local paper stating how he supports competency testing for teachers. He does not name names but presents several examples of incompetence in the school where he works. From that point on he is treated very coldly by all authorities over him (and some teachers) and is passed up for promotion and even has some trumped up charges brought against him. A School Administrator Bob, a fair-minded authority figure decides he wants to do more to help the kids so he works for a proposal to cut administrative costs by one percent and give the money to teachers so they can have a good miscellaneous account to buy badly needed materials for kids. He realizes that the average teacher only has about $60 a year to spend on the kids, whereas administration wastes thousands on expensive conventions, travel and entertainment. He thinks that his group should be able to sacrifice a little for the greater good they claim to support. He is aghast when he is called in by superiors and told to lay low here and not upset the apple cart. Sure the kids could use a miscellaneous account but that can be handled through a tax increase. Administration needs every dime it can get and more. He now realizes that if he does not play ball he will never move up the ladder and may even lose his job. The Parents This is a true story I saw on TV a while back. A school was in desperate need of a ball field and the school was low on funds so the parents in the district got together and built one with their own funds. However, school authorities told the parents that no one could use the ball field unless they built a second one because if the school has a ball field at all, it must have two. One for girls and one for boys. There must be equal opportunity, even though the girls weren't bothered if they had one just for them. Consequently the ball field gathered dust because the school was threatened with law suits if it was used at all. Sad isn't it, but that's the way the beast works. All seems well as long as you play along, but when you disturb the power of the beast you then find where his presence is. Next Question: Where is the power of the beast manifest in Politics? We won't pick on one party here over the other. For the sake of this discussion we'll talk about politics in general. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/663 From: "byrdz" Subject: JJ Dewey/The Beast Maybe JJ, sometimes we just step on the " toes of fear" in others as we express what spirit wants us to. In my opinion the only guidance we have in this dimension is the heart and what it is telling us is a truth for us and our intellect is not always ready to hear it. Ruthless' in Love & Light Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/664 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Recognizing The Beast JJ Dewey wrote: "Next Question:" "Where is the power of the beast manifest in Politics? We won't pick on one party here over the other. For the sake of this discussion we'll talk about politics in general." Do you mean political issues like abortion and marijuana? As long as you don't use any of the drugs on the illegal list, you're fine. But as soon as you do you're labeled a criminal and if discovered, may face serious charges. Then again, I would never take an illegal substance into my body, no matter how curious I get. No matter what I might learn from the experience--to discover, for myself, what is good or evil. JUST SAY NO (to thinking)! Feeling sarcastic, Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/665 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Recognizing The Beast J J Dewey wrote: "Where is the power of the beast manifest in Politics? We won't pick on one party here over the other. For the sake of this discussion we'll talk about politics in general." There are several examples in politics. I sometimes wonder if this is where the beast focuses its efforts... Kennedy, Lincoln, and several other Presidents were assassinate or nearly assassinated for some of the things they were trying to accomplish that interfered with the Beasts agenda. Look at slavery. Even though that was eventually abolished, (I assume a great victory for the Brotherhood of Light) Abraham Lincoln was still assassinated, assumingly for spear-heading the effort to stop slavery. Anyone who stands up against the idea of gun control, quickly makes many enemies. Eventually, we will lose our right to own a gun. Then, how will we defend ourselves from people who have obtained them illegally? Or even worse, our own Government? This is not meant to start a debate, just to point out why the Beast would rather us not own guns. The Beast in manifest in all three branches of the government, AND military. It would take another entire book to write all of the examples... -- Peace and Love, Dave Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/666 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Recognizing The Beast J J Dewey wrote: "Where is the power of the beast manifest in Politics?" Because I know very little about politics and how politicians work, I'll be looking forward to learning here, so I'll know what to watch for. All I conclude about politics is that money talks the loudest. And thanks go to everyone regarding the school system. I haven't had a child in school for many years, so I didn't know a lot of that either. My brother is a school teacher, my mother was a school teacher, several uncles are school teachers. But I do recognize the discussion about children testing what's taught, whether it's right or not. The reason given is that they are teaching children how to learn, not what to learn. It's a given fact that a child has no bread- winning skills when they get out of high school. I have noticed for a number of years that the young people entering the work force know very little, and it's people like me that have to train them in the basics. LeLona Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/667 From: J J Dewey Subject: 2nd Horn No one seems to be taking a stab at the Ten Horns so I will give a second horn. On the Physical level the first horn is North America and the second is South and Central America. These are two divisions in consciousness on the planet that rule with the beast for "one hour." What are the other eight? On the spiritual level the first is the Roman Catholic Church and the second is the Protestant and related Christian churches. What are the other eight? Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/668 From: Lynette McCauley Subject: RE: Recognising The Beast Dear fellow travelers, I would like to comment on the nature of the beast in politics. I have noticed that it doesn't seem to matter what party is in power, (right left or centre). They all still seem to eventually act the same. It seems that ethics and principles go out the window when there is money and power involved. I think the beast exists in politics where money issues become more important than human life. We have a government in Australia at the moment that is very right wing, everything is done supposedly to help the economy, at any expense. For example cutting down ancient rainforest is OK because it creates jobs. Creating more uranium mines in one of the most wonderful places Kakadu National Forest in the Northern Territory, on ancient aboriginal sites is deemed OK, even though the UN has sent out inspectors to try and stop the mining. Reasoning to create money and jobs. Trying to raise the level that we can have CFC's emissions at in Australia, even though the rest of the world sees the need to reduce emissions to stop global warming - reasoning it would put too many people out of work. Mind you it is little different when the left wing is in power, they said they would get rid of the uranium mines only to come to Govt and find that the contracts could not be rescinded without, you guessed it, "costing too much money to get out of". Other than ecological disasters (I call these biting the hand that feeds you, poor old mother earth) - humanity is more and more legislated against, rules rules rules, which we are meant to follow blindly. I say no to blind following. Legislators are creeping more and more into our own private business, excuses being that we are more and more unsafe, and need big brother to look after us by creating stronger and stronger rules. Media aids politicians by making the world seem so much worse than it actually is, by accentuating the negative. Seemingly the money-power combination in politics corrupts some of the best of people, and lots of politicians end up serving not their constituents but a completely different master - the beast. Politics seems to be a perfect area for the beast to rear its unpretty head, as bad use of authority certainly emanates from here. Love to all Lynette. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/669 From: BETTY NOREM Subject: Lower Nature & Beast R-Us J J Dewey wrote: "Subject: Lower Nature" "I do not see any disagreement here for the beast is of the lower nature and the lower nature is controlled by authority and the authoritative control is the keynote of the chapter. When we are finished I think we will all see as one because it will make a lot of sense." I can see now that we're saying pretty much the same thing, after I read your explanation of the Beast in your post entitled "Beast R-Us" - I sent my comment before I read that. An excellent explanation, by the way! "Her explanation of 666 is the closest so far, but won't comment on it until we get on into the chapter." Really??!! Thank you, JJ! Let me elaborate a little more & see if I'm still on track. The number six signifies completion of a period of activity - it is a symbol of accomplishment of growth or purpose, and is the number which serves to usher in the number seven, which is that of perfection. Much love to all, Betty Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/670 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: 2nd Horn N. America, S. America, Austalia, Japan, China, Europe, Arabia S., Africa, Russia, India Catholicism, Protestant, Eastern Orthodoxy, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Muhammadanism, Mormonism, Atheism, New Age Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/671 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: We are one... hundred! Look at the ever-expansive group of Seekers we are! :) Cheers my friends, Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/672 From: "byrdz" Subject: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Hi, Ruth again. I just finished catching up on all of the posts on this list. I must express amazement! First of all, I expected to be way behind on joining the list and on what was going on. I had no idea it was so relatively new. Just look at the member growth since Oct. 29th. That means that in less than a month we have reached a 100 member total, what a growth rate. I have an idea; let me know what you all think about it. Maybe everyone could tell us where they live so we can see how many localities are represented on this list. It's just my unending curiosity I suppose. Also the 29th is a number 11, which is a master number. (Yes, I'm somewhat of a numerologist, I can't help myself). Also, Nov.29th, which will be a one month anniversary for the list, is mine and my husband's 5th anniversary. There just seems to be one synchronicity after another here. So here goes, we are from Lubbock, Texas. Love, Light, Peace & Power Ruth & Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/673 From: "byrdz" Subject: Re: We are one Wow again Samu! We sat here constructing our long-winded post at about synchronicity about 12:15 Central time and by the time it appeared on the list you had a few seconds on us. Again Wow! Rob & Ruth Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/674 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: 2nd Horn Rick wrote: "N. America, S. America, Australia, Japan, China, Europe, Arabia, S. Africa, Russia, India" Does the order of horns have significance here? Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/675 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! I'm Rick Audette and I live in Plano Texas. There are actually only 98 members to date. There are two of us that are listed twice (I also get the list at my office) Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/676 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! I am Diane Linen and live in Austin, Texas. D. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/677 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Here I'm in Wichita, Kansas LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/678 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Re: 2nd Horn I just listed Areas and religions as they came to mind. There are some major religions I felt were relatively un-polluted. For the geography, I picked up my globe and picked general areas I felt were "hot" spots. For religions, I picked those I felt had strayed farthest from their original teachings. Atheism supports no teachings and New Age is a case of anything goes. Which ones go at the top of each list would depend on where you live in the world and who the local fanatics are there. Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/679 From: "byrdz" Subject: Members Count Rick said: "98 members." Because he is listed twice but my husband, Rob, is more or less a silent member because we are sharing one e-mail. So that actually makes 99, which is also a master number. Ruthless Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/680 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Rick wrote: "There are actually only 98 members to date. There are two of us that are listed twice (I also get the list at my office)" Ahaa... So we have 2 doppelgangers :) But Ruthless wrote: "Rick said: 98 members because he is listed twice but my husband, Rob, is more or less a silent member because we are sharing one e-mail. So that actually makes 99, which is also a master number." So yes, we're 99 because Rob and Ruth are united under one email accountant:) Ruth also wrote: "Wow again Samu! We sat here constructing our long-winded post at about synchronicity about 12:15 Central time and by the time it appeared on the list you had a few seconds on us. Again Wow!" Yep, I noticed this too. Some of us Finns are known to be quite punctual and do things in a synchronous way :) Ain't no thing like coincidence... :D So yes, hi everybody, my name is Samu and I'm doing my share to keep the Northern Lights shining bright in a small town called Porvoo in southern Finland. My location is a little further away from most of you (well I guess that depends on the perspective:), I am 8 hours ahead of central time. Love to all, Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/681 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Members Count Patience Dears, Debbie S. is also listed twice. No doubt we'll pass 100 tomorrow. My first list mail is dated 10/28, so we'll still be 100 in less than one month. Exciting, isn't it. I started the list, but 4 people managed to join the list before me. I guess some people have nothing better to do :) Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/682 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Members Count Rick wrote: "Patience Dears, Debbie S. is also listed twice. No doubt we'll pass 100 tomorrow. My first list mail is dated 10/28, so we'll still be 100 in less than one month. Exciting, isn't it. I started the list, but 4 people managed to join the list before me. I guess some people have nothing better to do :)" What's that new Light shining over there? There's something special and different about its halo... Let's go find out what it's all about!!! Heheee :) And Rick, is there really anything better to do? :D I think I was among the first 10... Somewhere around number 7 or 8 if my memory serves me correctly. I joined right after your invitation. Has, is and will be exciting indeed! :) Peace to fellow seekers, Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-24/683 From: J J Dewey Subject: Ten Horns Revealed Rick was close enough that we will just list the ten. One way to interpret this is that the ten divisions of the world are the ten horns and the ten division of religions are the ten crowns. The churches and temples are like crowns upon the land. Note that the division of the world is more along the lines of consciousness than strictly on boundaries. The Ten Horns: (1) North America (2) Central and South America (3) The United Kingdom Includes Australia & New Zealand (4) Europe (5) Russia and neighboring countries (6) Africa (7) India (8) China and Taiwan (9) Japan and Korea (10) The Middle East. The Ten Religions or crowns are: (1) The Roman Catholic Church (2) The Eastern Orthodox Church (3) The Protestant religions Includes the Mormons even though they claim not to be protesting. (4) Judaism (5) Islam (6) Shinto, Taoist (8) Confucian (9) Buddhist (10) Hindu. Atheism and the New Age are not religions in the Piscean sense. For instance, they have no churches or temples and what religion there is among New Agers is often closely aligned with Buddhism These ten religions account for about 99% of the church affiliations in the entire world. Thus we have then ten horns and ten crowns who have given life to the beast even in our modern times. Now for one more question and we will be done with verse 1! We are told that on his heads are the names of blasphemy. The King James says "name" but most modern versions correctly translate this as "names." What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast? Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/684 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Re: 2nd Horn Rick writes: "I just listed areas and religions as they came to mind. There are some major religions I felt were relatively un-polluted." THANKS A LOT, RICK! Here it is 5:20 in the morning, and you just woke me up! I was dreaming about why it took you so long to solve this part of the puzzle! hahahahaha It was your remote control. You had dipped it in water and you couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. That was funny! So I come in, now that I'm awake anyway, (ahem) to check messages, and yup, you have the answers all neatly stacked up on my screen. I'm glad someone got something. I was stumped and coming up with nothing. Sometime before I went to sleep I was thinking "Rick, if you know the answer SAY IT". Geesh, I gotta get a life....hahahahahhaha LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/685 From: "TwinStorms" Subject: Re: Here. Coming to you Live and in Living Colors from New Kensington, Pennsylvania Light, Love and Power One for All and All for One! TwinStorms AKA James Bryan Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/686 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Example? Would this be considered an example of facing the beast? Here in Kansas we have to file out a form and return it by March 31st every year if we own personal property other than real estate. I do. So sometime around August or so I was notified that because I didn't return my assessment form this year that I would be penalized 50% tax. First I called to tell them that I had sent it back, that I always send it back. They said they'd look for it again and call me back. They called back and said they didn't find it anywhere and that I would have to fill out another form to explain why I wanted to protest the penalty. So I did that. My reason for protest was that I had mailed it on time, and if they didn't get it then the next time I would send it registered, return receipt. Weeks went by, then I was notified that my case had been sent to Court for determination. Later I was notified that 40% of the penalty had been dismissed. I protested the 10% left on. The case went to the State jurisdiction, and they removed the 10%. I spoke up and was successful in eliminating a penalty they tried to impose that would have cost me mega bucks, and it was their word against mine. I said I mailed it, they said they didn't get it. I know, some of you will say don't even pay taxes, but I don't protest that part. It's Caesar's anyway. LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/687 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Ten Horns Revealed "We are told that on his heads are the names of blasphemy. The King James says "name" but most modern versions correctly translate this as "names." "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" I can't help but wonder why it is the heads and not the horns that have the blasphemous names? Or is it because the horns are created out of the heads having the blasphemous names? The 'sinning' heads would give away the power and authority to the horns and thus create the beast? In a questioning mood, Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/688 From: Travis Tabbal Subject: Re: Recognizing The Beast J J Dewey wrote: "Next Question: "Where is the power of the beast manifest in Politics? We won't pick on one party here over the other. For the sake of this discussion we'll talk about politics in general." At the risk of being flippant, where doesn't it? Travis Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/689 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Re: 2nd Horn I didn't say I KNEW the answer. I've just learned, over the years, that it's better to take your best shot at it rather than no shot at all. At my worst, I'm still going to be right half the time and with practice, the percentage tends to improve. You know what they say, the only dumb questions are the ones you forgot to ask. Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/690 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed Samu writes: "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" I'm still examining myself to determine whether I agree that what was given as the ten horns and ten heads is true. In questioning that, I'm gaining understanding, and not saying that I don't believe JJ. Is one of the names of the North American beast Nuclear Weapons? LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/691 From: Cuiston Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Hi all...I joined the list about two weeks ago and tried to post twice but since I am a computer dumbbell, it didn't 'show'... With Rick's help, maybe this one will appear where it is supposed to!!! Anyway...most delightful list. My name is Linda and I live in Pacific Grove, Ca. on the Monterey Peninsula. Most enjoy all the wisdoms and sense of humor shared here. Blessings Linda Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/692 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Re: 2nd Horn Rick writes: "I didn't say I KNEW the answer." And I didn't say you SAID you KNEW the answer. It was my dream, you know.:=) Is there a country NOT covered by the list of ten? Is there a religion NOT covered? I don't have a globe to look at, nor a world map to look at. So I couldn't begin to tell you how many countries there are, even. LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/693 From: J J Dewey Subject: Finding the Beast I would like to point us in the right direction in looking for the beast here. Because all the religions have told us that this beast will surface at the end of time, and be so evil that Hitler will look like Snow White, we tend to look at the bad things going on around us and figure that must be because of the beast. The power of the beast is much subtler than that and sometimes when the power of the beast is diminished things will seem to get worse. For instance: When The Soviet Union collapsed and the Berlin Wall fell the power of the beast (unquestioned authority) was greatly diminished. Because the power of the beast was so strong there before the fall, the power of decision was diminished and the power of the people to do either good or evil was low. But when the people were granted the power to question the beast, and the power of freedom was greater, crime and many negative things actually increased. This is a normal result of an increase in freedom. An increase of freedom brings an increase of both good and evil for a period of time, but then as people solve their problems the evil is brought under control. Believe me the US Constitution was not brought about by sitting around and talking about peaceful things. The friction was so great that they almost came to blows and some thought nothing could ever come out of so much fighting. What is more evil than crime, immorality, corruption, bickering etc. is the controlling use of subtle authority that removes our power of Decision so we do not even recognize the enemy and no longer "know good and evil." So in looking for the beast in Politics or anything else we do not look at all the normal things that infuriate us about it, but we look at where the control is. What could a good conservative or liberal do to help the country that would bring the wrath of his party down on him? Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/694 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" The first thing that came to my mind is that these places call themselves things like "United States", "United Kingdom", "Union of Soviet Socialist Republic", etc. This implies a unity or Oneness, as in one with the Father or one for all, all for one, which generally doesn't prove out in the nations in question. That would seem to make it a deceitful use of the name of a quality of Godliness. That seems like blasphemy to me. Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/695 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Ten Crowns Interpretation (another view) J.J. Dewey posted: "...One way to interpret this is that the ten divisions of the world are the ten horns and the ten division of religions are the ten crowns. The churches and temples are like crowns upon the land." And now a quote from The Immortal (page 234): "So did Jesus, or Joshua as you call him, live the 1000 lives?" "At least that many," said John. "I indicated this in my Book of Revelations Chapter 19 verse 12. I stated that on the head of Christ were many crowns. Tell me: how do you suppose Christ received many crowns when he is only recorded as living to the age of 33?" "Could the many crowns have something to do with many lifetimes?" I asked. "Correct," he said. "Each crown here represents a life where a great victory was achieved..." J.J.'s revelation on the symbolic meaning of the ten crowns on the beast in Chapter 13 verse 1 from the Book of Revelations does not seem to mesh with Chapter 19 verse 12, which is revealed in The Immortal, on page 234. Could you explain this to me J.J.? (crowns = religions.....crowns = victories) Thanks! Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/696 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Finding the Beast J J Dewey writes: "What could a good conservative or liberal do to help the country that would bring the wrath of his party down on him?" He could think for himself, seek to serve the people rather than himself or his "peers." I'm guessing an example of this would be to propose decriminalizing marijuana use. Or, better yet, proposing to repeal the income tax. That would bring a whipcrack from his party in no time. Just some thoughts, beating the beast with caffeine, Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/697 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Blasphemous names J J Dewey writes: "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" I'm not sure, exactly, as to what the actual names are, but I do think I have an understanding in the right direction. Blasphemy usually refers to saying something profane to God or mocking God. I guess a blasphemous name would be any name that signifies greater freedom and a closing of the gap between man and God, but the entity that has the name is actually working towards achieving the opposite--greater illusion and a widening of the gap between man and God. I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying this, but I think an example of a blasphemous name would be the term "Christian." Most of the people that claim the title "Christian" in these days are actually blinding following beastly philosophy, thus leading themselves and others to greater separation from God. IMHO, Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/698 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed Rick, yeah, I find your answer very stimulating. I think you're on the right track here. Since God is in everything, and since to be one w/God is to be one w/everyone and everything (in a sense), then any name in today's world beginning w/United or Union would definitely be blasphemous (with rare exceptions). The United States, for example, has starving and homeless people, yet we give tons of food to other countries. And we have 50 states, w/ 50 different state governments (you can be a criminal in one state but be a free man in another state), 50 different ways of doing things. I wouldn't exactly describe this country as being united. Caffeinated Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/699 From: "888" Subject: Re: Here I'm in Australia, blessings to everyone! Gabrielle. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/700 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Ten Crowns Interpretation (another view) "Could you explain this to me J.J.? (crowns = religions.....crowns = victories) Thanks! Garrett" "I'm probably stretching with this one but here's how I look at it. All the major God-based religions were inspired by God. For example, Christianity has its roots in the teachings of Jesus. It wasn't always the twisted representation of the light and love that it is today. In Jesus' days, I'd wager, Christianity was probably pretty cool. In conclusion, one way the victories = religions = crowns could be interpreted is that the establishment of the Church way back when could be considered a major victory for Jesus and the White brotherhood. Does this resonate w/anyone's soul? Resonating w/ caffeine, Rob" Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/701 From: BETTY NOREM Subject: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Fantastic growth in less than a month! I'm in Panama City, FL Betty Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/702 From: J J Dewey Subject: Crowns Garrett Wrote: "J.J. Dewey posted (message 683): "...One way to interpret this is that the ten divisions of the world are the ten horns and the ten division of religions are the ten crowns. The churches and temples are like crowns upon the land." And now a quote from The Immortal (page 234): "So did Jesus, or Joshua as you call him, live the 1000 lives?" "At least that many," said John. "I indicated this in my Book of Revelations Chapter 19 verse 12. I stated that on the head of Christ were many crowns. Tell me: how do you suppose Christ received many crowns when he is only recorded as living to the age of 33?" "Could the many crowns have something to do with many lifetimes?" I asked. "Correct," he said. "Each crown here represents a life where a great victory was achieved..." J.J.'s revelation on the symbolic meaning of the ten crowns on the beast in Chapter 13 verse 1 from the Book of Revelations does not seem to mesh with Chapter 19 verse 12, which is revealed in The Immortal, on page 234. Excellent question. A crown represents an achievement or victory. The crowns on the head of Jesus represents past lives where there was great achievement. However in the eyes of those who are deceived by the beast the churches themselves are more important than the teachings of the great men who founded them and represent crowns of achievement and glory to them. In addition remember that there are several levels of interpretation to each symbol in this book. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/703 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Ten Crowns Interpretation (another view) Rob posted (message 700): "In conclusion, one way the victories = religions = crowns could be interpreted is that the establishment of the Church way back when could be considered a major victory for Jesus and the White Brotherhood." If the many crowns of Jesus represent many victories of many lifetimes, why don't the ten crowns of the beast represent ten victories for the beast? Essentially, this is my question. On the flip side, if the ten crowns of the beast represent ten religions, then why don't the many crowns of Jesus represent many religions? I realize this may be nitpicking, but hey, I'm a Virgo, that's my job! Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/704 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Crowns J.J. Dewey wrote (message 702): "However in the eyes of those who are deceived by the beast the churches themselves are more important than the teachings of the great men who founded them and represent crowns of achievement and glory to them." "In addition remember there are several levels of interpretation to each symbol in this book." EXCELLENT ANSWER! Thank you for simplifying it for me. However, your last statement about several levels of interpretation baffles me. In my simple mind I am only able to see two levels of interpretation: 1. The correct interpretation. 2. The rest (the many renditions of incorrect interpretations). I don't mean to be a pain in the neck, but why are there several levels of correct interpretation? I guess I'm just not getting it here. Thanks for your patience. Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/705 From: JOHN KOSIOR Subject: Re: Rod Simon wrote: "Two of my children go to school. One is an eighth grader, the other is a sixth grader. They are exceptional athletes that want to win, and know how to win! They are fine boys that the schools cannot turn into an image of a beast, despite beliefs to the contrary." This one statement got me really thinking. "The schools cannot turn into an image of a beast". I've never quite considered it from this angle that the beast is attempting to create more like itself. Or attempting to convert living, thinking, conscious and spiritual beings (students) into an image of a beast, like cattle or sheep to be herded and used for the pleasure of the state. How insidious! And here I always thought that the root cause of the educational system failure was that it was run by well educated idiots. Well, you learn something new every day. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/706 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Hee hee.... This kinda sounds like we are at a "Keys-a-holics Anonymous" meeting. Hi, my name is Brian Weis. I live in Bucks County, PA (USA). And I am a seeker after the Keys of Knowledge. Sometimes I just tickle myself..... ~B. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/707 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! You always tickle myself......hee hee..... I enjoy you being here! Thank you! LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/708 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Keys Of Knowledge/Wow! Barkeep....tickles all around....put 'em on my tab! Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/709 From: "Lynette McCauley" Subject: RE: Re: Members Count Hi, My name is Lynette and I live on 5 acres with my husband, the saint, and a menagerie of animals - in Sunny Queensland, Australia. Cheers - I'll take my heads and my crowns and go do some multilevel thinking! Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/710 From: J J Dewey Subject: Ten Horns Revealed Old List The Ten Religions or crowns are: (1) The Roman Catholic Church (2) The Eastern Orthodox Church (3) The Protestant religions Includes the Mormons even though they claim not to be protesting. (4) Judaism (5) Islam (6) Shinto, Taoist (8) Confucian (9) Buddhist (10) Hindu. DotSabel@aol.com pointed out that I didn't have a number seven on the list of religions. The list should read as follows: The Ten Religions or crowns are: (1) The Roman Catholic Church (2) The Eastern Orthodox Church (3) The Protestant religions Includes the Mormons even though they claim not to be protesting. (4) Judaism (5) Islam (6) Shinto (7) Taoist (8) Confucian (9) Buddhist (10) Hindu. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/711 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Blasphemous Names J.J. Dewey wrote (message 683): "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" I'll take a wild guess at this. Could the answer be found in Galatians Chapter 5 verses 19-21? Are those (religious leaders) who proclaim that they are led of the Spirit actually living the works of the flesh? 1. Adultery 2. Fornication 3. Uncleanness 4. Lasciviousness 5. Idolatry 6. Witchcraft (ouch! This may upset some on this list) 7. Hatred 8. Variance 9. Emulations 10. Wrath 11. Strife 12. Seditions 13. Heresies 14. Envyings 15. Murders 16. Drunkenness 17. Revilings Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/712 From: Alice Despard Subject: Re: Blasphemous Names J.J. Dewey wrote (message 683): "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" All of these blasphemies are forms of lovelessness. On this subject, I quote from a teaching I just read tonight: "All evil, in origin, is spawned from lovelessness." "Any being, who by mischief to the extreme, labours for havoc, for upset, for entrapment, for injury to another, in spite, in harm, in crime, in err, is an epitome of lovelessness. The arguments of evil and that Father God did make allowances for - in light and shade - can be simplified thus:- Father God did not create Evil as such - He did not set His Mind to opposing Himself - verily, Evil is no equal opponent to Love, but rather, it is the premature offspring which is as yet so underdeveloped as to be capable of living Love's reality. And it must, in part, be loved also, for it should not be, nor should survive. And although wicked and self-despised, corruptive, decadent, malicious, destructive and treacherous, Evil and all of its cohorts are pitiable, redeemable and entitled to a proper development. This is high doctrine, for it is essential to our presumptions about ourselves." "Each man holds those parts of his nature which too are as yet so underdeveloped and tender when exposed. The 'dark-side' to a man which is referenced is not the reality of the noble being he is. We are rebuked and admonished by our failings constantly, whilst also encouraged by this to demand the changes within our makeover that will improve the mastery of self and subsequently work our ways to greatness." Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/713 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" I feel inclined to think that the words, 'In God We Trust', is at least one of the blasphemous names. Just to be sure, JJ, do we have the full understanding of the word Blasphemy? I'd hate to be guessing at the names without having a full understanding of the word. I understand it to mean, "Offensive to God," basically. It's not a word I focus much of my time on. Since, in a matter of speaking, I've heard this word used against people so often, I've grown to hate it... It seems to cause hate.. (At least peoples' interpretation of it does. -- Peace and Love, Dave Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/714 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Blasphemous Names From: Alice Despard: "J.J. Dewey wrote (message 683): "What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast?" "I'll take a wild guess at this. Could the answer be found in Galatians Chapter 5 verses 19-21? Are those (religious leaders) who proclaim that they are led of the Spirit actually living the works of the flesh? 1. Adultery 2. Fornication 3. Uncleanness 4. Lasciviousness 5. Idolatry 6. Witchcraft (ouch! This may upset some on this list) 7. Hatred 8. Variance 9. Emulations 10. Wrath 11. Strife 12. Seditions 13. Heresies 14. Envyings 15. Murders 16. Drunkenness 17. Revilings Garrett" "All of these blasphemies are forms of lovelessness." "on this subject, I quote from a teaching I just read tonight: All evil, in origin, is spawned from lovelessness." "GARRETT: I'm ok with this so far." Any being, who by mischief to the extreme, labours for havoc, for upset, for entrapment, for injury to another, in spite, in harm, in crime, in err, is an epitome of lovelessness. The arguments of evil and that Father God did make allowances for - in light and shade - can be simplified thus :- " GARRETT: Simplified? Great! Simple, JUST the way I like it! I'm still ok. "Father God did not create Evil as such - He did not set His Mind to opposing Himself - verily, Evil is no equal opponent to Love, but rather, it is the premature offspring which is as yet so underdeveloped as to be capable of living Love's reality." GARRETT: Verily? This teacher actually used the word verily? I'm beginning not to be ok with this. My caution light is on. "And it must, in part, be loved also, for it should not be, nor should survive. And although wicked and self-despised, corruptive, decadent, malicious, destructive and treacherous, Evil and all of its cohorts are pitiable, redeemable and entitled to a proper development. This is high doctrine, for it is essential to our presumptions about ourselves." GARRETT: High doctrine? I'm beginning to wobble now. "Each man holds those parts of his nature which, too, are as yet so underdeveloped and tender when exposed. The 'dark-side' to a man which is referenced is not the reality of the noble being he is. We are rebuked and admonished by our failings constantly, whilst also encouraged by this to demand the changes within our makeover that will improve the mastery of self and subsequently work our ways to greatness." GARRETT: Whilst? The red light is now on for me. I was actually expecting this teaching to be signed "Brother Philo." These teachings may be described as beautiful for some of the enlightened members of this list. However, when the teacher stated that it could be simplified, for me, it actually got more complex. I come from the low end of the enlightenment spectrum of this list. I am not ashamed to admit this. I have to make my way through spiritual truths inch by inch. You will see some pretty weird and blunt posts from me. This, no doubt comes from my lack of understanding, and an inability to sugar coat what I say. By interjecting my terse little comments in the above "teachings" I am merely explaining how I view them as an un-enlightened being. Eloquent speech from a teacher is meaningless to someone like me. If these teachings can be condensed down into a form that I can comprehend, then I will gladly take another look at them. Thanks. Garrett Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/715 From: "Diane Linen" Subject: Re: Blasphemous Names Hi Garrett, Some parts of the world use words such as whilst and colour and they are usually examples from the British Empire.... like England, Canada and Australia. It's just a different way of spelling things than Americans are used to. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/716 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed Yes... 10 horns = 10 divisions of the world, 10 crowns = 10 divisions of religions. But there were 7 heads that represented certain pivotal points in recorded history, such as Rome, Egypt etc, and the 7th head is active, so to speak, right now. So now I'm wondering (again folks, yes again:) is there one name that is connected to our times (7th head) and also to the other 6 heads, or is there a single name attached to each head? I agree with you Dave. I think 'In God We Trust', from what I understand since it is such an American phrase and I'm no native, is being used in ways that have nothing or very little to do with the original meaning. Actually I am not aware of the history of that phrase, so forgive me if I'm drawn to wrong conclusions. I am only thinking of the words themselves and what they stand for. I do not know the background or the context; well I do know that those are the words printed on the almighty dollar bill. :) I was also wondering of the full meaning of 'blasphemy'... If you say that it means 'offensive to God', hmmmm... What can be offensive to God? Well to use his name in context of something that does not represent what S/He is, I'd say so, yes. Basically to claim something is for your good, for your best when in fact it brings you the opposite. I think it is blasphemous to say something is of the greatest good *knowing* that it is not. That's a process where we really end up hurting ourselves. Much love, Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/717 From: Rick Audette Subject: Latest list Here is the latest list of members. There are a few that I don't have e-mail addresses for yet. 109 have joined but 12 have left = 97 total Alice Despard Andre Eichner Andy Shin Antonio Joseph Martin BEN THOMAS Becky Priddy Becky Ryan Betty L. Norem Beverly Bates Brian S. Weis Bsmith Carole Jarrett Carolyn Elaine Mille.. not found Clive culbertson D. Dailey Dale St.Amant Damon David Curtis David Goddard Dawn Cronk Debbie Sekerke Denise Terry Diane Linen Dorothy De Ste.Croix Dot Dr. Safwan Arekat E Ann Baldwin Fe Pacheco Gabrielle Garrett Ward Gay Avice du Buisson Glenys Lowery Granville hardy Gypsy Dreamer (Belle) Hypnopia Imona Journey James Bryan (TwinStorms) James Clarke Janet Kay Jeanine Bozzo Jennifer Hardin Jerry Ann Spruill Jill O'Hara Joel Cocks John E. Conner John M Kosior Jose Quinones Joseph J. Dewey joyce kutchka Kam Baya Karen Surface Kathy gucciardi kay mosey Kevin Shannon LeLona Hodges Lia Duggin Linda E Linda Spires Liz Montville Lynette McCauley Lynn Marie Redfern Lynne Giles M. J. Michael Maria da Conceicao L. Marilyn A. Maple Mary Riley Mindy Monique Anny Perzylo Nancy Whittaker Natalia de Lemeny - OneBeing Patricia Roach Rene K. Mueller Richard E. Audette Rick Audette Rodney J. Simon rsimon@twistercom.com Ruthless Samantha Dunsmoor Samu Karlsson Sanna Hanskala Sergio Correa Shamus webb Shania Nelson Sharon Jorgenson Sharri Lorraine Sherry Palombo Steve Mark Suzan Griffith T.Farris Terrance R. Brennan Terrie Rosenthal Tiffany Tina Christensen-Shu.. Tracey Hobson Travis Tabbal White Light Xavier doll_ans Yutaka,Tanaka Total 97 members Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-25/718 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Ten Horns Revealed Egypt Rome Europe China/Asia Middle East South America North America (U.S.) If as some say, the United States is the mightiest nation in the world today (I hear people refer to Clinton as the most powerful man in the world)(yuck), then could the United States be the seventh head? This may go along with Dave's idea and Samu's of the term "In God We Trust" as it is printed on coins and paper money. In the early days of this country, the founders were strongly based in Masonry. The 33rd degree is mentioned as those who are high in the Masons as being in charge of the destiny of this country as well as the rest of the NWO. This is rather beastly I think. Or as JJ says, the result is beastly. The Illuminati includes more than just people from the U.S. It includes leaders from banking around the world such as David Rockefeller and it also includes people from the media which helps to form public ideas or opinions. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/719 From: J J Dewey Subject: Beastly Hint I believe it was Dave who wrote: "Just to be sure, JJ, do we have the full understanding of the word Blasphemy? I'd hate to be guessing at the names without having a full understanding of the word. I understand it to mean, "Offensive to God," basically. It's not a word I focus much of my time on. Since, in a matter of speaking, I've heard this word used against people so often, I've grown to hate it... It seems to cause hate.." We might note here that Jesus was crucified because he was thought to be a blasphemer. Few of us today think He was a blasphemer, but the fact that He was so accused illustrates that one man's good works is another man's blasphemy. Of course the reverse is true. True blasphemy may at times be praised as a wonderful thing by many. "Such is the case with the Beast." First let us truly define was blasphemy is so we can all be on the same page. The word as translated in the Bible comes from the Greek word BLASPHEMOS and in relation to God literally means "speech that hinders (God)". By inference it can mean "outrageous, untrue, vicious or unfounded speech against God or something sacred." Now the interesting thing is that the beast had on his heads the "names of Blasphemy." Garrett somewhat summed up the direction the guesses have been taking with the following list: 1. Adultery 2. Fornication 3. Uncleanness 4. Lasciviousness 5. Idolatry 6. Witchcraft (ouch! This may upset some on this list) 7. Hatred 8. Variance 9. Emulations 10. Wrath 11. Strife 12. Seditions 13. Heresies 14. Envyings 15. Murders 16. Drunkenness 17. Revilings Based on what religions have taught about the beast in the past these names seem fitting, but to discover the true names we must realize that when any being bears a name he realizes that he has the name and introduces or has himself introduced by such name. When we accept a name for ourselves we are not ashamed of it but proudly present it before all to know and use. Some Bible believers think that the Emperor Nero was the Beast because he was so evil and persecuted the Christians but I assure you he did not want to be known by a name like liar, murderer, hater.. In fact if anyone called him any such thing he would have lost his head. There was a blasphemous name that the emperors of Rome as well as the other heads of the beast proudly acknowledged and were happy to be proclaimed to the world. You probably learned this name which was used in Rome in history class. If you figure this name out the next question is: What are the names of blasphemy the beast goes by today? Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/720 From: J J Dewey Subject: Relationship Viagra I believe it was Ruth who wrote a while back about the difficulty all of us have in relationships from time to time so I thought I would pass on something that helps my wife and I. When one of us has hurt or negative feelings toward the other, we both realize that this is always caused by us looking on the outward imperfection in the other. And that when we look upon each others souls or inner selves then we can only feel love and see perfection, so here is what we do. When the negativity goes too far one of us will take hold of the other and we will sit down at our dining room table and look in each other's eyes. Then the one wanting peace will demand of the other: "Say I love you three times." We have a deal with each other that no matter how negative we feel. We will always be willing to tell the other "I love you" three times and the deal is that this cannot just be a quick repetition of words, but the "I love you," must at least sound sincere. If it doesn't the reluctant party must continue the "I love yous" until the other is satisfied that there is sincerity in the voice. The one receiving the "I love yous" also returns them at least three times. The strange thing about this process is that when we are done we cannot even remember what the argument or negativity even was. What's more we don't want to remember. Let me warn you it takes discipline to follow this process for if you feel like choking your mate it takes a certain presence of mind to say "I love you" like you really mean it. Perhaps I should say it takes a definite Decision. If any of you try this out I'm sure we would all like to hear how it works for you. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/721 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Beastly Hint President, Queen, Pope, King, IF Nero was Caesar then it would be the heads of state? Can it be that simple? Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/722 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Beastly Hint I know this won't be the answer JJ is looking for, but it's still an answer to something. Negativity. The dual nature, positive and negative, in all things, the yin and yang. Male and female. Oppression, depression, suppression, all stem from focusing on the negative. The media focuses on the negative. Schools focus on the negative. People focus on the negative. The medical profession focuses on the negative. Governments focus on the negative. Parents focus on the negative with their children. Husbands and wives focus on the negative with each other. Individuals focus on the negative within themselves. Mr. and Ms. Fix-It wouldn't be able to satisfy their ego without having a negative to fix. Ego needs something to work on in order to claim victory over God, in order to ignore God because Ego is too busy working on ego to give up it's claim of fame and give in to God fixing all things. Ignore=ignorance. Negativity=darkness. LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/723 From: JOHN KOSIOR Subject: Re: Beastly Hint I think this may be the right track. I'm remembering from the Old Testament that the Israelites were in the promised land and had no king. But they were insisting on having one, just like every other "kingdom" of the time. Note that they did have a governing body of such. They were called judges, but a king was expressly forbidden. When the people insisted, God gave them Saul. The reason I've heard that the people demanded a king, was so that they could interact with the other nations on an "equal" footing, and thus gain "power". The thought here was that they already had a king, God, but they knew the world didn't recognize their "king", so they got what they wanted. Saul ended up being a disaster for them. As for the term blaspheme, I've always seen that word used to describe an act or statement which attempts to rise above others, and thus declare oneself as being "god" over the people. Perhaps Orwell had it right when he spoke of "big brother". Those who by way of declaring themselves "god" over us, now do everything in their power to hinder the children of God from realizing who they truly are, and thus keep themselves in their lofty positions. John Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/724 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: The Simplicity of Interpretations ;) Garrett wrote: "In addition remember there are several levels of interpretation to each symbol in this book." EXCELLENT ANSWER! Thank you for simplifying it for me. However, your last statement about several levels of interpretation baffles me. In my simple mind I am only able to see two levels of interpretation: 1. The correct interpretation 2. The rest (the many renditions of incorrect interpretations) I don't mean to be a pain in the neck, but why are there several levels of correct interpretation? I guess I'm just not getting it here. Thanks for your patience." Simpleness leads to understanding how things tick on ground level, and that leads to seeing the beauty and ingenuity of things. Often the principles upon which patterns are manifested are quite simple, but it's the outer manifestations of these principles that are diversified and may seem complicated, especially when principles tend to overlap. One of my mottos are: out of simplicity, brilliancy is made of :) And the simple me didn't even know if there was such word as 'brilliancy' when I came up with that one. Heh. You are right on track Garrett, just keep on walking, wandering and wondering and things are alright :) I know that's how it's worked and still is working for me. Can't you see me rambling my friend? ;D I have always seen the world as a very symbolic place. When I am focusing and looking for an answer, I have so many times found it close to me in a least unexpected and familiar place. Now, why didn't I notice it before? Was the answer not there before? Or was it an incorrect answer *I* saw there before? Or was my interpretation of the answer I saw somehow misled, maybe by myself and my present understanding of things? Hmmmm... maybe the 'correct' interpretation of something is the one which gives us the answer that fits and describes the current situation and circumstances. But symbols are exactly what their name say they are, and for example if I say 'heart', it can be associated to something very different depending on the subject, and I mean subject in every sense of the word... and I guess you could use 'object' there as well :) When something is expressed via symbolic means, we often meet many things that are close tied together, possible showing slightly different manifestations of a principle or a basic idea, for example. Or they can be like layers covering the core. For example, my dreamworld is extremely vivid, and we all know how symbolically imbued dreams are. What I'm not usually so good at is interpreting my dreams, unless they are straightforward or prophetic. I give an example: I had a dream before traveling to the States this summer where I met a tall woman from Denmark who had a certain queen-like presence to her and she was wearing a big very peculiar and special looking necklace. Well, I shared my dream with the one I did the trip with. And we figured this might be something from a past life, because the woman looked just like Terri who I had never met before in this lifetime and was gonna meet in a few weeks (I had also seen her in reoccurring dreams much before we met over the net, but that's another story:) So, one interpretation would be that it was a past life connection coming thru symbolically in this dream of mine. Well, what I didn't know I was to make another interpretation as I was finally sitting on the plane above the Atlantic on my way to Dallas. I sat next to a young woman, and of course we got to talking during our 10 hour flight. She's looking at a magazine I'm reading and says: "That's got to be Finnish; it's the only Scandinavian language that has such long words like that." I said: "Yes you're right. Where are you from then?". "Denmark" :) I also speak Swedish and that's quite close to Danish so the rest of our conversation was a mix of English/Swedish/Danish. To be honest I didn't remember my dream right away, but when I did, I thought 'oh no, here we go again'. :D So of course, I chose to pay attention to her neck and look for something possibly ornamental residing there. :) Took a careful peek, and there it was: the necklace. :) My jaw about dropped thru the floor into the ocean. :D We spent some time at the airport as we were waiting for our connecting flights, and I helped her because she almost lost herself at the airport by taking a wrong direction. She was also going to Santa Fe where I would be going just a week later. Anyway, this just as a ranting example of many layers and levels of interpretations and symbolicism. :) Don't know if it made things any clearer, but I guess I was in a storytelling mood. :) I would like to take this moment to 'think aloud' :) a question that just popped in my head even if it is off-topic: What's the difference between a spiritual principle and a scientific law or equation? Forgetting the fact that an equation *can* be something that only comes close depicting the phenomenon and does not say *why* something works the way it does. Darn, did I just answer my own question? Spirituality: why, Science: how. Or do these things overlap as well? Hmmmm...? Heheheheeee :) Somebody shut my mouth before I get kicked outta here ;D Feeding the soul with food of thought, peace and patience to my friends :) Samu Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/725 From: JOHN KOSIOR Subject: Re: Members Count Hi, My name is John, and I live just outside Fort Lauderdale, Fla., in a town called Margate. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/726 From: Isabelle Subject: Here Hi, Belle here.... And I still can't believe I'm living in Mississippi at the moment! Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/727 From: Isabelle Subject: King for a Week Hi gang, All this talk reminds me of a wonderful person named Wavy Gravy!! (Actually his name is Hugh Romney). Remember him in the Woodstock Movie? He's one of most magical people I've ever met.. He's a member of the commune called the "Hog Farm" in California. They were called in to feed the "masses" when Woodstock suddenly got so big no one was prepared for it. They still to this day do many wonderful things for the community at large. Anyway, many years ago at election time they started a campaign for "Nobody for President" which still occurs to the best of my knowledge each election year.. Great Platform they have too. Very tongue in cheek, but makes one think. http://www.netvideo.com/nobody/: On December 8, 1975, at the United State Cafe, on Haight Street, in San Francisco, I spoke with Wavy Gravy about voter apathy. I pointed to some statistics that showed people were not registering to vote and approximately 50% or less of the registered voters made it to the polls. Wavy responded, "You mean Nobody is winning the Presidential elections?" That question became the spark that ignited the Birthday Party's "Nobody for President Campaign". Wavy became "Nobody's Fool", I became "Nobody's Campaign Manager", and the rest is history. [ Nobody's History 1975 - 1984 ]| [ Nobody's - Photographs ]| [ Nobody's Award Video ] [ Nobody for President - 2000 Campaign Tour ] [ Nobody for President - Links to Esoteric and Related Political Action Sites ] [ Nobody for President - Alternatives for the Presidential Election ] [ Nobody for President - Prestigious Awards and Reviews= ] No Comment Nobody Thanks For This Page. These pages are maintained by Just Another Nobody Copyleftcenterright A9 1996 - Nobody Also within the commune there was a event called "King for a Week" where each person had a turn to see what it would be like to "run" the commune for one week.. This included everything to do with all of the people who lived there.. Meals, meetings, whatever.. The result of which I am sure was that no one would ever be a "tyrant" because when it was someone else's turn to be King, there could be retribution. http://rockhall.com/news/releases/16feb98.html For Immediate Release: What's new at The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum? "February 16, 1998 WAVY GRAVY AND PAUL KRASSNER TO APPEAR AT THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME Duo to Lecture and Host Book Signing Born Hugh Romney, May 13, 1936, in East Greenbush, NY, Wavy Gravy has lived a life filled with excitement, adventure and philanthropy. In 1966, he was one of Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters and lived on a mountain top commune near L.A. called the Hog Farm. Traveling the country in converted school buses protesting the Vietnam War, Wavy Gravy achieved fame when he declared from the stage at Woodstock, "What we have in mind is breakfast in bed for 400,000." "In addition to his Hog Farm undertakings, Wavy has filled his days with a list of benefits and worthy causes. There was Home Aid (for the homeless), Cowboys for Indians (for Native Americans), Blues Against Blindness, countless hours spent in children's hospital wards, and much more. He's been described as addicted to helping people, and his enthusiasm is contagious. Master of Ceremonies at both Woodstocks (1969 & 1994), author of Something Good for a Change, mastermind of the campaign of Nobody for President, Wavy Gravy keeps the Sixties alive with his comedy, his wisdom, and his deep love of the earth and its inhabitants." As far as I'm concerned it would be easy to convince me Wavy is an incarnation of some very Christ-like being. In spite of being in almost constant pain from a totally screwed up back, Wavy serves the planet tirelessly in his clown costume working for the betterment of his fellow humans and the entire planet.. This is his website with a great photo of the man himself and from it some great links. http://users.aol.com/wgeneral/wavyhome.html . "The 90's are the 60's standing on your head!" Meet Wavy Gravy Wavy Gravy's Photo Album Camp Winnarainbow "Sketch of My Thumbnail" "Seva Foundation Nobody for President Ben & Jerry's Website" "The Clown Prince of the Counter Culture."-- High Times" "Weird and Wonderful."-- New York Times" "Legendary loco-laureate of the Woodstock Nation." -- L. A. Times" "He is one of the most unselfish and concerned persons I ever expect to meet in my lifetime -- and he is also one of the brightest and most talented." " -- Phil Elwood, S.F. Examiner" "Like the best of clowns, Wavy Gravy will make as big a fool of himself as is necessary to make a wiser man of you. He is one of the better people on earth." "-- Ron Rosenbaum, Village Voice" "No one summed up the spirit of slapstick, anarchy and antic liberation at Woodstock better than Wavy. He's still carrying the counter culture torch 20 years after the Sixties." -- People" "Wavy's quips still have bite. He's the rock and roll generation's clown conscience."-- Eugene Register-Guard" "A perfect entertainer."-- Lenny Bruce / "A master satirist."-- Tom Wolfe Just raving this morning, Belle Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/728 From: Isabelle Subject: Whilst "GARRETT: Whilst? The red light is now on for me. I was actually expecting this teaching to be signed "Brother Philo." Garrett" Just a remark concerning this one word.... When I first went to Australia I was surprised that almost everyone there uses "whilst" when an American would use "while".. Belle, whose Virgo Moon is being active. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/729 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Beastly Hint Diane Linen writes: "President, Queen, Pope, King, IF Nero was Caesar then it would be the heads of state? Can it be that simple? Diane" Interesting train of thought. King and Queen would definitely be blasphemous since being closer to God means greater freedom and not greater enslavement. Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/730 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: "+" & "--" LeLona Hodges writes: "I know this won't be the answer JJ is looking for, but it's still an answer to something. Negativity." I also believe that negative thinking attracts negativity in life (since energy follows thought). This can make everything more difficult. I wanted to comment on this statement: "The dual nature, positive and negative, in all things, the ying and yang. Male and female. Oppression, depression, suppression, all stem from focusing on the negative. Although I was brought up a feminist (raised by single parent--mom), to think a woman can do anything a man can do, if not better, I've gained a new appreciaton over the years for 'negative' or FEMALE energy since following Joseph's works. Although it's true that all dual energies have correspondences in the Male and Female, this does not make Female energy evil. In fact, female energy is just as good and important as male energy--so important that no creation could exist w/o it. One of the ways female energy is different than male energy is that it's invisible, but it's effects can be felt. Like gravity. Whereas the sun's rays correspond to male energy and that's why this energy gets more credit in today's world--much more visible. Because of this it's perceived more desirable by men and women alike. Many wondrous things are possible, I believe, when the male and female energies work together. I wish I could share more of what I learned from Joseph's works regarding this, but I don't know how much he's going to put into his Immortal books, and so feel it's better to hold back. Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/731 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Relationship Viagra J J Dewey writes: "If any of you try this out I'm sure we would all like to hear how it works for you." It works great! I've never asked for I Love You's back though. I just realized that sometimes I get so angry and frustrated that I can't even think straight. So I take a time-out and then commence w/the I Love You's. Dispels much negativity. Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/732 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: "+" & "--" TeKnoBabL writes: "Although I was brought up a feminist (raised by single parent-->mom), to think a woman can do anything a man can do, if not better, I've gained a new appreciation over the years for 'negative' or FEMALE energy since following Joseph's works." How 'bout that! Me too. I've always had the strong conviction that a woman can do anything a man can do, and better. In the '60's I was riding motorcycles when that wasn't cool for a female to do. In the '50's I was....well, never mind. That's not the point. Question here: So you and Rick have been with JJ before coming online? How many years are you talking about? Hey! What have I been missing out on? @@*&@()$^)@^^ The book is published in June 1998. Then Rick said he didn't know why someone didn't put a list together before he did. How many in the list know JJ personally? Has JJ been teaching from this material? When did the events take place between JJ & John? LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/733 From: Lynn Redfern Subject: Re: Members Count One "Cannuck" signing in. My name is Lynn and I live in Ontario, Canada about 1 hour west of Toronto. (Just joined the list about a week ago and am playing "catch up" in the archives as I wait (not very patiently I might add :) for Book II to arrive in the mail.) Glad to be here!!!! Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/734 From: Alice Despard Subject: Re: Whilst Garrett, I'm sorry you had such trouble with the syntax of that last message. Indeed, that piece came through an Australian, and reflects somewhat their peculiarities of the English language. The message wasn't really closely "on subject" about blasphemy per se, but I thought it was wonderful and wanted to share it. You objected to the phrase "high doctrine" and I suggest you try substituting the phrase "important spiritual principle", if the word "doctrine" bothers you. The core of the message was that evil manifests as lovelessness, and if you got only that out of it, that is fine! It was taken out of a larger context, and I realize that the language itself (which I have grown accustomed to), can sound strange, especially to American ears. Respectfully, (from here in the Washington, DC Metropolitan Area, USA, sometimes called "Ground Zero") Alice Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/735 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: "+" & "--" LeLona says, "Question here: So you and Rick has been with JJ before coming online? How many years are you talking about? Hey! What have I been missing out on? @@*&@()$^)@^^" "The book is published in June 1998. Then Rick said he didn't know why someone didn't put a list together before he did. How many in the list know JJ personally? Has JJ been teaching from this material?" Such is not the case. I wrote to JJ, for the first time, about one week before I started the Keys of Knowledge mail list. In my first letter I said that book 1 really rang true for me, BUT a term he used to describe book 2 pushed my "beware" button, because of things a past teacher had told me. My letter was rather blunt and I assumed that he would just ignore me and not write back. When I got home from work, next day, before taking my usual nap, I checked my e-mail. There was a letter from JJ. All it said was, if we rely on the authority of others, instead of asking the God within, we give power to the Beast. POW! An arrow straight to the heart. I wrote back that his words rang true and even if the book wasn't the Truth it was still the best story I had read in years. I owed it to myself to find out what book 2 was about for myself. So, I skipped my nap and went out and got a money order to buy the book. When I listened to my own heart I dedicated myself to this work. If I live 2000 years I could never do enough to further the work being proposed. I am nobody special. Until 6 months ago I had never even heard of the word "lightworker". Now I am in the company of such. This is all a new and joyful experience for me. Believe me, I'll be growing right along side of all of you. Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/736 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: "+" & "--" Thank you, Rick, for taking the time to answer my questions. I really get bent out of shape when I ask questions and no one answers. It's like talking to the wind. When you said "if I live 2000 years I could never do enough", I thought, be careful. That's almost like what John said. :) Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/737 From: Gabrielle Subject: Re: Blasphemous Names Hi Garrett, Alice & everyone! Some thoughts about what Garrett wrote beneath this passage: "And it must, in part, be loved also, for it should not be, nor should survive. And although wicked and self-despised, corruptive, decadent, malicious, destructive and treacherous, Evil and all of its cohorts are pitiable, redeemable and entitled to a proper development. This is high doctrine, for it is essential to our presumptions about ourselves." "GARRETT: High doctrine? I'm beginning to wobble now." I have two thoughts about this one please. Firstly, the paragraph itself shows a great contrast of light and shade for me because it speaks of evil being 'redeemable' - of being able to become something better than what it is. I love candor too, I love the freshness of blunt words and brevity and startling simplicities ... all that stuff ... I like cartoons as well. But I also love art - fine art. Some concepts spiritually can be medicinal, just in themselves. What I mean here is that they can bring answers to problems and healing because of their nature. When we first think of evil we are repelled by it (well, most of us :-)) and yet, at the same time, there is much we all carry that could do with a change! To have sympathy and patience with evil is to me an amazing thought. It is a 'high' thought - because it contrasts with the lowest (in our natures and in the world and in the cosmos) and it is a high thought because it takes the greatest compassion. It probably is more simplistic to say things are just 'good' or 'bad' and leave them to rot in hell if they are evil, but sometimes a little work in our thinking can be worthwhile (particularly if it teaches us compassion)? Personally I am inspired by this. "You will see some pretty weird and blunt posts from me. This, no doubt, comes from my lack of understanding, and an inability to sugar coat what I say. By interjecting my terse little comments in the above "teachings" I am merely explaining how I view them as an un-enlightened being." Oh! Don't put yourself down!!!!!!!!!! *smile* "Terse" ... where does that come from? "Eloquent speech from a teacher is meaningless to someone like me. If these teachings can be condensed down into a form that I can comprehend, then I will gladly take another look at them. Thanks." If something does not work for you personally it really is better to just leave it be. I know that for myself there are so many things that I am not comfortable with for many reasons and are truly 'locked out' (as in keys to knowledge) of comprehending, and that is that. I am just grateful for what I do find inspiring. For me there are mysteries in both simple and complex forms. Simple in itself can be as unattractive as it is wonderful ... it is not a guarantee of substance though - just simplicity. I come from a little town where simple thinking prevails and it can be frightening ... perhaps this is why I crave enlightened reasoning and lively thinking? Don't know. Happy thoughts to you all Gabrielle. Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/738 From: "byrdz" Subject: Re: Relationships Thanks J J for the info on how to deal with each other when we are angry enough to literally take off the loved one's head. It seems that to just be able to deal with the anger raging inside is like being inside a tornado. And for me, (I'll call it weakness) to shut my mouth long enough to let the anger subside without letting my sharp tongue express the sheer hatred I have for his anger and hurting him in a way that I would never want to otherwise. With us when we get to that point in an argument I feel like I am no longer dealing with that big-hearted person I love more than life itself, but with some beast using his body to do battle with me. Being the spiritual warrior I am, lashing back just comes natural and only serves to make both of our anger at each other grow to an even stronger level. At those times I am still aware of a tiny part of my being pleading with me to just see the love and I do but the anger is so overpowering until I have run my course by running my mouth. So I guess one of the most subtle areas that the dark side traps us unaware is anger. Because it takes you, throws you around and spits you out only when it seems that "It" is finished. Any comments or opinions welcomed guys. Love, Light Ruth Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/739 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re:Relationships byrdz writes: "So I guess one of the most subtle areas that the dark side traps us unaware is anger. Because it takes you, throws you around and spits you out only when it seems that "It" is finished. Any comments or opinions welcomed guys." Comment: One thing I've learned how to do is recognize the subtle daggers being thrown at me inviting me to throw one back and get into a fight. I just don't throw one back. It takes 2 to tango. I change the subject or pretend I didn't pick up on it. It takes a lot of fine-tune listening to catch the dagger before it hits me where it hurts. Know what I mean? Maybe I haven't explained myself. In my situation, my mate likes for me to stomp on him, likes for me to punish him. 'Course, he doesn't like that, and fights back, but he wants to be punished. I have gotten to where I hear it coming, and just ignore it. I don't get critical nor give in to his "little boy bad" attitude. I've even told him I do this. He, of course, doesn't understand what I'm talking about most of the time, but if I tell him quickly right after I've spotted it happening, he knows then what I just said. Then there are other times that I want to fight too....hahahaha LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/740 From: "byrdz" Subject: A Thank You This is to everyone on the list who responded to my request for your localities: I really appreciate you all, (that's some Texas slang) for indulging in my curiosity. To J J Dewey: I apologize if I interrupted the questions or general teaching you were conveying to us. I haven't had the opportunity to read book 2 yet due to some pinched finances so I am kinda lost as some of the others seem to be at some of the questions being asked. I wish we could discuss some on book 1 also, especially on the who or what am I question. I am longing to know if my answer is correct even though my spirit says it is. I feel we are all Masters in our own right, therefore all teachers and students. I guess I can be too bold at times. But when I am at this keyboard, I never know what may come rolling out. One of my talents is motivating people to look within or without, but at least look and allow. If I offend anyone at any time then I apologize ahead of time, okay. I already love all of you so much. I do believe we all know each other very well if we can just get past our egos and 20th century thinking and just be who we are; God expressing Himself\Herself as humans, no false pretences. Okay, okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. Love, Light Ruth Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/741 From: "byrdz" Subject: RE: Relationships\2 To Lelona: You're right of course and I am aware of that " buy into it thing", maybe it's just my Pisces (fish) personality. There's the bait, grab it. My analytical side being the fish, of course with my intuitive side saying "watch it, aren't you tired of this game?" With us it seems like it's two dragons fighting for power over the other, like who can breathe the fire and not destroy the other one completely. I don't know why we always hurt the one we love the most? I guess it's because they are the one closest to who we really are. Then maybe it's just that child inside lashing out at the parent we are still holding resentment towards. There can be many reasons why. But aren't our mates supposed to reflect who we are inside back upon ourselves so we can both grow? That's my belief anyway. I just wish we didn't have to learn our lessons in such an unpeaceful way and we wouldn't if denial was not raising it's ugly head and saying, "don't you see me here." Thanks Lelona Love & Peace Ruth Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/742 From: Shania Nelson Subject: Re: Authority Explained Shania wrote: "I suggest that we as individuals have to find for ourselves what makes us happy. And once we find that happiness we should seek the perfect mate and build a strong relationship through a spiritual bond. Only if the spiritual bond exist the two people will be happy throughout eternity." "Hello Shania, I mostly agree with you :) And you say it in the right order too, first happiness and then relationship, whereas most people go into it the other way around. I wonder though, what if the state of perfection that a pair share becomes something else, changes its form over time? Or if a couple who shared an idea of the perfect state later notice that there have become 2 different but equally perfect perfections? :) Musingly yours, Samu :D" Hello Samu, I am glad to hear that someone else shares my same feelings. It is good to know that I am not alone. Sometimes it feels like I the only one who is on the journey seeking that happiness I deserve. Peace and happines Shania Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/743 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: A Thank You Ruth and Y'all, Discussing JJ's current teaching is the primary topic on the list, but it is not the only one. We also can bring up other questions that come to mind, regarding the book. In addition, we like to introduce other topics related to spiritual advancement; questions about the merits of other philosophies, thoughts or actions, inspiring stories and even humorous anecdotes. We also like to know more about each other. This helps us become more of a family and experience Oneness. Enlightenment ought to be fun and we are a fun loving bunch. All work and no play, yuck. If you find yourself on a topic that might not appeal to the whole group, you can e- mail people off-list. Many of us already have developed friendships, off-list. I get almost as many letters from individual members as I do from the list. If you get too far off topic, somebody will likely get in touch with you. We all try to be polite and diplomatic around here, but being plastic about who we are doesn't help anyone. We are all different and trying to learn to accept this in each other. So, just keep writing whatever comes to mind. In Oneness, Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/744 From: JOHN KOSIOR Subject: Concern LeLona Hodges wrote: "Thank you, Rick, for taking the time to answer my questions. I really get bent out of shape when I ask questions and no one answers. It's like talking to the wind." Hello Listmembers, I have what may come across as a complaint, but is truly just a concern. I'm even questioning myself as to what purpose this post might serve. But I must accept and follow my feelings. My concern is this. In the past few weeks, I have posted quite a number of thoughts and comments and questions, which have been 100% ignored in terms of comment from others on this list. I have actually entertained the thought that quite possibly I had been black-balled for some reason. I know this may be quite silly of me, but when you've contributed a dozen posts and have heard no response or comment from anyone, it begins to feel like "talking to the wind". Please understand that I truly have no ego investment in being treated like a part of any group. If I am, that is great. If I am not, that's really fine too. My only concern is that if I have offended the members here, or if my contributions are deemed incongruous, then I would like to know this as I would most gracefully bow out of future discussions. If this post seems offensive in any way to anybody, then please accept my apologies in advance. If on the other hand my concern has any validity to anybody, I wish you would make that known to me. If you'd like, you may email me directly. Lastly, to each new member who may not have any idea what I am talking about here, let me say to you that you have found your way to what I consider one of the most brilliant lists available anywhere. So please don't allow this post to taint your involvement. There is so much here which is of infinite value. Thank you all, John Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/745 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Concern Hi John, I consider that many of the posts that arrive on the list are brilliant and I take time to ponder the wise words contained within them. Then later I forget to comment directly to the person who has contributed much of this pondering. Sorry about that. Diane Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/746 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Concern John, I apologize if I have contributed to the "100% ignoramousnessness." Most all the conversation in here has been about the book and JJ's questions. Sometimes there are discussions of other topics, but they are mostly related to the basic idea. However, there have been a few topics that were not related, and that always happens on a mailing list. I think this list has been very observant and responsible in not bringing other matters to the list, and I for one am policing myself. If I have a very short response like "thanks, I needed that" I'll send it direct to the one involved, and not to the list. It is important to recognize each other here and encourage each other and lift each other up. I promise to be more diligent in the future by responding. I may even go backward and pull up some of your posts and examine myself to see if I have anything to add. I want you to stay with us, but I know what you mean about thinking maybe this might not be the list for you. I had the same thoughts yesterday, I believe it was, and vented my frustrations to Rick in private. Today I feel better, even if I still don't know the solution to JJ's question. Now, maybe I'm not the one you want to confirm your presence here, but I'm hoping more will write later. I feel a lot going on "between the lines" of JJ's questions and answers. Hey! Just whistle a happy tune! LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/747 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: "+" & "--" LeLona Hodges writes: "Question here: So you and Rick has been with JJ before coming online? How many years are you talking about? Hey! What have I been missing out on? @@*&@()$^)@^^" I've been in communication w/ JJ since last quarter '93. Since then I've learned the first 6 Keys of Knowledge. 6?! Damn, there's that number again! "The book is published in June 1998. Then Rick said he didn't know why someone didn't put a list together before he did. How many in the list know JJ personally?" Although we've been in communication for about 5 years now, I've never met him in person. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I didn't even know what an online mailing list was until JJ invited me to join. I didn't know Rick before this. "Has JJ been teaching from this material?" Actually, JJ's teachings came first. The Immortal books are his way of bringing his teachings to the masses. "When did the events take place between JJ & John?" I don't know. Why don't you ask him? Love, Light, Power . . . . and cigs. Rob Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/748 From: Cuiston Subject: Re: Concern You write: "My concern is this. In the past few weeks, I have posted quite a number of thoughts and comments and questions, which have been 100% ignored in terms of comment" I, too, have posted comments or 'answers' while stating I am new to this list...to all postings I have received no acknowledgement or welcome. Most of the time, I observe and appreciate, posting rarely, but it would be nice to be considered part of this 'list' I was invited to join. May you all have a Happy Day of Thanks Linda Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/749 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Concern John and All, I sometimes get that same feeling of being ignored. I don't take it personal though. First off, E-mail doesn't get to everyone at the same speed all the time. Most of the time it only takes seconds, but sometimes it can get caught in a loop and not show up for days. Another point is we get a lot of mail through this list. It's a lot to keep up with. Sometimes I read things and learn from them, but have nothing to add. Other times I might flag it to respond after I have read my other mail and then forget, after reading the next 30 posts, that I meant to go back and answer one. I get something out of every letter I get, but can only spend so many hours per day in virtual space. I don't think anybody is being ignored. We all gain from all the posts on this list, but it would be impossible to answer all of them and still get things done away from the keyboard. I'm listening, Rick Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/750 From: Isabelle Subject: Ouch! Hi John, Linda and all, Ouch!! Really sorry folks for not being more of a correspondent lately, but it's never been one of my strong points anyway. Then I ran across an old astrology text on the web which said of Aries people... Aries people make very bad correspondents; their style is usually curt and dogmatic, so that the recipient is likely to feel that he is being dictated to. So I thought, "Gee, I have an excuse for being who I've always been.." Then I realized my Gemini rising wouldn't stand for that so I just have to admit I've been extremely rude lately. With me it seems to be either that you can't get me to shut up or can't get me to say anything at all. No balance here! I have also made the mistake of joining so many lists that I can barely keep up with the reading much less the replying... (I was getting almost 200 messages a day....on a SLOW day!) Soooooo, just today I have unsubscribed from two lists. There are just so many interesting people out there who are willing to teach you anything you could ever want to learn or who need to know something you already know... I do realize I'm missing being a more active member of this list and sooooooo watch out. You asked for it!!! Now you'll be wanting me to go back into my pile of mail and leave you guys alone... :-) Trouble is, I'm so far behind here I feel like a newbie too. And truly, some of the posts here are so thought provoking I feel a bit intimidated!!! I actually thought I had an idea what the book was about after reading it...Boy was I only skimming the surface! Now, Welcome, welcome, welcome!!!!! It's a great list and I'm Baaaaaack! Grins and hugs, Belle Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/751 From: OneBeing Subject: Interfacing Here...Living there... Greetings, Just wanted to say hi and let you all know that I am living in Boulder, CO. Currently I am visiting OneBeing in the Bavarian Forest of Germany and following the list from here. Great fun...! I am still trying to finish the online book. I will join in when I get that done. Light Loving Laughter... Joshua Heartsong -"- Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/752 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Concern Cuiston writes: "it would be nice to be considered part of this 'list' I was invited to join Better late than never? Welcome, Linda! I'm glad you are a part of this list. We, well, I, (I can't speak for everyone, only me) get so involved in the Book and the questions, and so absorbed in everyone's comments that I forget to honor the contribution that everyone makes. That is selfish of me. I'm sorry." I do notice when a "lurker" speaks up, and I will try to be more observant in the future. We all need encouragement to verbalize our own slice of wisdom. This mailing list is more than an ordinary mailing list. To me, it seems like a snow ball rolling UP hill, and the more "snowbirds" it picks up the faster it rolls. All the "lurkers" are pulling their weight just like all the "talkers" are. We're all in this ball together.....! LeLona-O- (how'd you do that?)~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/753 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: "+" & "--" TeKnoBabL writes: "When did the events take place between JJ & John?" "I don't know. Why don't you ask him?" "Thanks, Rob. I will." AH, JJ? (shouting over the heads in the crowd) WHEN DID THE EVENTS TAKE PLACE BETWEEN YOU AND JOHN? LeLona~O~ Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/754 From: Alice Despard Subject: Keeping Up/Responding Fellow list members, I bet there are a few people on the list who subscribed to this list in digest mode, which makes response time very slow. I got frustrated being behind in postings and realized I should switch to non-digest mode, messy though it be. By the time I posted a response, it was almost a non-sequitor as the thread had moved along so fast, and I could almost hear the rest of the list go "whaaaa???". Also, this list has grown ten-fold in less than a month, and the postings have multiplied at a rapid rate, so it is easy to fall through the cracks. When I joined three weeks ago, there were only a dozen people here! I was miffed too, on another list, when no one responded to my posts, until a friend pointed out that if people agree with the essence of your post, they generally just nod, and don't post a reply. They most commonly post a reply when they have another perspective to offer, much like a conversation. Problem is, we can't see each other nodding in agreement or in acknowledgement. And personally, I don't want to read lot of posts that say just "yeah, I agree!", or "way to go!" coz it can really slow things down. So instead of feeling like you are speaking in the wind, feel that you are speaking to a room of empathetic listeners! This is like a room full of kind strangers, until we all get to know each other a little better. Peace, Alice Post-No.: keys-l/1998-11-26/755 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Beastly Hint J J Dewey wrote: "If you figure this name out the next question is: What are the names of blasphemy the beast goes by today?" At first I wasn't sure where to begin