1998 - WEEK 46 Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/201 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Playing John Hi JJ, Everyone, J J Dewey wrote: "I thought the group may enjoy an interplay where you have to answer questions." "Here's the question. Not counting the Song of the 144,000 what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book (counting Books I and II as one Book)?" There are so many teachings that spoke to me. But the admonishment to always live according to the highest Truth I've been given was a timely reminder to me. It's very simple when you say it fast but a profound spiritual principle when you think about it. It's helped me smarten up my act, to compromise with myself less and to do my best to live in a more disciplined way. It reminded me of the Toltec teaching that a true spiritual warrior should strive to live 'impeccably' ie to act to the very best of your ability using whatever knowledge happens to be available to you at any given moment. However, having said that, I'll probably think of something else as soon as I press the send button :-) With love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- We're on a mission from God -The Blues Brothers Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/202 From: "d.linen" Subject: Re: Playing John To me the thing I learned most useful was that we can become one with Joseph, John, Jesus and also God when we tap our inner self. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/203 From: "TwinStorms" Subject: Re: Playing John The most important revelation would be that we should confirm all truths and revelations with our Spirit (that still small voice). Being on several E-mail lists, I get a whole lot of "revelations" that come to my mailbox. If I was not to accept only those truths that resonated with my spirit, I could see how easy it would be to become very confused. Even if the revelation is real truth, if I am not ready for that truth, I can put it aside until such time that it resonates with my Spirit and the still small voice confirms that the truth is something that I should give attention to. If at first it don't ring true, Look inside, the truths' in you! Well anyway I enjoyed that. Very thought provoking exercise. Thanks Namaste TwinStorms AKA James Bryan http://members.xoom.com/TwinStorms/ ICQ 11179055 Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/204 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Playing John JJ Dewey writes: "what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book" The Key is the most important to me. Decision+consciousness+attention. However, there were many others that were sub-important, too numerous to list. I was also encouraged to see a one- on-one teaching session between John and Joseph happening in everyday life, and this internet idea is also a one-on-one teaching session for each of us. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/205 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Doctors I cheered Joseph telling Elizabeth's doctor off! I don't care for doctors, myself. I've had too many bad experiences that now I probably haven't been to a doctor for 10 years or so. My most classic example of doctoring happened several years ago when I had a severe pain in the tail bone area. After suffering from the pain for about 2 years I went to a doctor who did a battery of tests that cost me a fortune and the tests found nothing unusual to account for the pain. When the doctor physically found the sore spot he just said arthritis, and recommended cortizone shots. I refused the shot and questioned the diagnosis, but decided to live with it. Then about 2 years later I was snowmobiling in Colorado, actually riding on a pull-behind of a snowmobile going up a mountain. My brother was driving, and I had 2 dogs in my lap trying to hold on to them. We were all going to my brother's cabin at the top of the mountain only accessible by snowmobile. It was a rough ride to say the least. Suddenly we hit a big dip at the bottom of a mound of snow and I hit the bottom of the trailer landing right on my tailbone. I heard a pop inside and thought "oh no, I broke it now!", but still holding onto the dogs and trying to keep them from falling out I suspended myself internally to check out the damage. Damage? Damage heck! The tailbone was just knocked back into place! No more pain! That was the end of the pain! Instantly! Forever! LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/206 From: "d.linen" Subject: Re: Playing John Very well said James. Diane TwinStorms wrote: "The most important revelation would be that we should confirm all truths and revelations with our Spirit (that still small voice)" Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/207 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Playing John "If at first it don't ring true, Look inside, the truths in you!" I have to agree with James on this one. As much as I loved book 1, I almost didn't order book 2 because of things someone else had told me. When I questioned JJ on this, he told me that, when we rely on the authority of others, instead of turning within, we give power to the "Beast". I then looked inside myself and knew he was right. And now look at me. In one month, I have changed and grown more than I can express. It may not be the most important lesson in the book, but it sure was for me. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/208 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Hello again ! LeLona Hodges writes: "1. Trinitized Secrets of Supremacy. 2. Eternals of Days. 3. Ancients of Days. 4. Perfections of Days. 5. Recents of Days. 6. Unions of Days. 7. Faithfuls of Days." "Another idea that came to mind as I was about to close your post. The Ancient of Days is in the 3 position on your list. Is that significant? Earth=3rd planet from the sun; Ancient of Days=earth." No, their *residence* is in Havona, Earth is about as far as you can get from Paradise and still reside in pervaded space more specifically: "And you will each spend a longer or shorter time on each of these unique and thrilling spheres on your way inward through Havona to Paradise. It is natural, on your world, to speak of Paradise as upward, but it would be more correct to refer to the divine goal of ascension as inward." Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/209 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Hello Lelona, Last things first .... You wrote: "That brings up another question in my mind. Am I created for a specific purpose?" To the best of my knowledge, yes, you are created for a specific purpose. Since, I do not know who you are -- that is an ascending or descending personality -- it would be difficult to comment further. If you are considered as a mortal -- that is an ascending personality then: 5. THE PLANETARY SERIES OF MORTALS It will be somewhat difficult to make an adequate portrayal of the planetary series of mortals because you know so little about them, and because there are so many variations. Mortal creatures may, however, be studied from numerous viewpoints, among which are the following: 1. Adjustment to planetary environment. 2. Brain-type series. 3. Spirit-reception series. 4. Planetary-mortal epochs. 5. Creature-kinship serials. 6. Adjuster-fusion series. 7. Techniques of terrestrial escape. The inhabited spheres of the seven super-universes are peopled with mortals who simultaneously classify in some one or more categories of each of these seven generalized classes of evolutionary creature life. But even these general classifications make no provision for such beings as midsoniters nor for certain other forms of intelligent life. (more) at http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper49.htm LeLona writes: /;This may bring up pre-destination, which I don't particularly agree with if I have free will." The only pre-destination is as follows: "However Urantia (this planet) mortals may differ in their intellectual, social, economic, and even moral opportunities and endowments, forget not that their spiritual endowment is uniform and unique. They all enjoy the same divine presence of the gift from the Father, and they are all equally privileged to seek intimate personal communion with this indwelling spirit of divine origin, while they may all equally choose to accept the uniform spiritual leading of these Mystery Monitors." "If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father's will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual's experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him." LeLona writes: "A question came to mind as I was reading your post. Are you saying that STP'S are created supreme trinity personalities, as opposed to coming up from the ranks, so to speak?" Supreme Trinity Personalities -- These beings of administrative perfection are of definite and final numbers. Their creation is a past event; no more are being personalized. Throughout the grand universe these Supreme Trinity Personalities represent the administrative policies of the Paradise Trinity; they represent the justice and are the executive judgment of the Paradise Trinity. They form an interrelated line of administrative perfection extending from the Paradise spheres of the Father to the headquarters worlds of the local universes and to the capitals of their component constellations. LeLona writes: "If that's the case, then I'll never have my own universe:)" Some speculate that that is the purpose of the finaliters -- those mortals who have risen *through the ranks* (so to speak) and millennia of existence. My personal best guess is that each individual is the *seed of an entire* universe should that personality prove out. Hope this clarifies things, Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day11.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/210 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Hello Rick: You write: "Hope this clears up some confusions, Polara" "Actually, it just added to it." Then I apologize, because your list is dedicated to another book. My function is as a cross- reference, not to contest or judge your sources. I signed onto this list at first because I thought you were discussing a third and different book altogether :) The Book of Knowledge - The Keys of Enoch I was in error. Rick writes: "Sounded more like Angels dancing on the head of a pin to me. Don't get me wrong. I'm as curious as the next guy. But, every time I've ever looked into the Urantia book, I've come away agitated." Yes, I have had the same reaction, from time to time. Sometimes it is as interesting reading as is the Congressional Record :0 Rick writes: "If I'm trying to teach someone something, that I know about and they don't, I try to find ways that express the new information in terms that they already have an understanding of. When I read the Urantia book, I get the impression that the author is shoveling on the B.S. in an attempt to make himself look like he knows more than any other human being and since we are so dumb, we just have to take his word for it." Actually, the book has a multitude of authors. For each of the 196 papers to be specific. Although some papers share the same author. I too have been the skeptic of skeptics, but time and again it seems to have proven out when overlapped with other texts. Rick writes: "When Christ taught, He used analogies that simple folks like me could follow." In the Urantia Book Part IV. is The Life and Teachings of Jesus. This part is where I began reading and I recommend that starting point to anyone interested in Christ and his life on this planet. Rick writes: "I have no idea if the Urantia material contains any Truth and likely never will, because I have always been repulsed by "better than thou" types. If you truly do understand the material, perhaps you could find a way to dumb it down for my simple mind." I have been reading this material in excess of 30 years and still feel dumb about it. I also feel somewhat miffed as in that *better-than-thou* feeling which comes across in many passages, for example: Paper 5 (snip) In all our efforts to enlarge and spiritualize the human concept of God, we are tremendously handicapped by the limited capacity of the mortal mind. We are also seriously handicapped in the execution of our assignment by the limitations of language and by the poverty of material which can be utilized for purposes of illustration or comparison in our efforts to portray divine values and to present spiritual meanings to the finite, mortal mind of man. All our efforts to enlarge the human concept of God would be well-nigh futile except for the fact that the mortal mind is indwelt by the bestowed Adjuster of the Universal Father and is pervaded by the Truth Spirit of the Creator Son. Depending, therefore, on the presence of these divine spirits within the heart of man for assistance in the enlargement of the concept of God, I cheerfully undertake the execution of my mandate to attempt the further portrayal of the nature of God to the mind of man. Rick writes: "Christ said that the way was difficult, but simple. I have always taken his word for it. I hope no one is offended by my lack of knowing. I never stop trying to learn more, but I have a long way to go." Yes, he was the Master of making the difficult idea simple to his audience. I just wish I had such a gift ! Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/211 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Futr2000 writes: "No, their *residence* is in Havona, Earth is about as far as you can get from Paradise and still reside in pervaded space more specifically:" Never heard of that name *Havona*. Where does it come from and what does it mean? I tell you, I have learned so much new stuff since I joined the internet! LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/212 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Hello ~B, ~B writes: "Ouch. My head *really* hurts now. No disrespect or offense intended, but this material just begs the question: Is there a "Bad Hair of Days"?" No, but you may enjoy: 4. THE REVERSION DIRECTORS Joyful mirth and the smile-equivalent are as universal as music. There is a morontial and a spiritual equivalent of mirth and laughter. The ascendant life is about equally divided between work and play--freedom from assignment. Celestial relaxation and superhuman humor are quite different from their human analogues, but we all actually indulge in a form of both; and they really accomplish for us, in our state, just about what ideal humor is able to do for you on Urantia. The Morontia Companions are skillful play sponsors, and they are most ably supported by the reversion directors. You would probably best understand the work of the reversion directors if they were likened to the higher types of humorists on Urantia, though that would be an exceedingly crude and somewhat unfortunate way in which to try to convey an idea of the function of these directors of change and relaxation, these ministers of the exalted humor of the morontia and spirit realms. In discussing spirit humor, first let me tell you what it is not. Spirit jest is never tinged with the accentuation of the misfortunes of the weak and erring. Neither is it ever blasphemous of the righteousness and glory of divinity. Our humor embraces three general levels of appreciation: (more) athttp://www.urantia.org/papers/paper48.htm "I am going to have to order Book II in order to follow this particular train of thought. I am re- reading Book I (hey, I read it quite a while ago), so please excuse me as I strain to catch up to the rest of you in the list." The material I quoted was from the Urantia Book not Book I of the Keys of Knowledge. Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/213 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Song I just discovered something else about the Song. I had brought it to work to repeat it in the afternoon if I needed to, and yup, I needed to. Take a look at this. There are 3 paragraphs. The first one is LIGHT. The second one is LOVE and the third one is POWER. Light, Love, Power. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Sometimes things just jump at me when I least expect them.....:) +++++++ Another thing, while writing, is that the idea of living 1000 years and then something else, and then something else and then.....I've often had the thought that time goes so slow, and life is boring, and I'll sure be glad to get out of this life form, and stuff like I sure don't want to come back to this planet, know what I mean? Well, it hitting me square in the forehead that I might as well make the best of it and learn to enjoy it because I'll be here a while longer so I might as well learn to like it! I'm not saying I don't, I'm just saying that I've lived my life as if this would be my last, although I've always believed in reincarnation. I had a dream when I was about 7 years old that I still vividly remember, and that was that this huge swan was idling up in the sky and I when I saw it I exclaimed "she's taking me to heaven!" and I've been wondering ever since then "am I there yet?" LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/214 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days LeLona writes: "Never heard of that name *Havona*. Where does it come from and what does It mean?" PAPER 14 - THE CENTRAL AND DIVINE UNIVERSE THE perfect and divine universe occupies the center of all creation; it is the eternal core around which the vast creations of time and space revolve. Paradise is the gigantic nuclear Isle of absolute stability which rests motionless at the very heart of the magnificent eternal universe. This central planetary family is called Havona and is far-distant from the local universe of Nebadon. It is of enormous dimensions and almost unbelievable mass and consists of one billion spheres of unimagined beauty and superb grandeur, but the true magnitude of this vast creation is really beyond the understanding grasp of the human mind. This is the one and only settled, perfect, and established aggregation of worlds. This is a wholly created and perfect universe; it is not an evolutionary development. This is the eternal core of perfection, about which swirls that endless procession of universes which constitute the tremendous evolutionary experiment, the audacious adventure of the Creator Sons of God, who aspire to duplicate in time and to reproduce in space the pattern universe, the ideal of divine completeness, supreme finality, ultimate reality, and eternal perfection. (more) at: http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper14.htm And now explain it to me please, I have difficulty with the above:) Polara Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/215 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Anybody know of a mail-list I can join, where they talk about the Immortal? Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/216 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Song of 144,000 "that the consciousness of Christ is lifted up in us in this love, and wherever we will the love to be enflamed." You know those little glass tubes with colored liquid in them that boils when you touch the bottom of the tube? Whenever I read that phrase, in the song, I get this feeling inside that reminds me of those. A Reiki practitioner was doing some remote work on me recently and said it felt like my Kundalini was stirring. I wonder if that is causing the bubbly feeling. Or do I just imagine it. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/217 From: Isabelli Subject: Rick's bubbles Couldn't be that the Reiki practitioner is stirring that Kundalini, eh Rick? :) Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/218 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Doctors LeLona wrote: "trailer landing right on my tailbone. I heard a pop inside and thought "oh no, I broke it now!", but still holding onto the dogs and trying to keep them from falling out I suspended myself internally to check out the damage." "Damage? Damage heck! The tailbone was just knocked back into place! No more pain! That was the end of the pain! Instantly! Forever!" Sometimes a pain in the a** is just a ..... oh wait. Freud never said that. Congratulations! Reclaiming your power -- and responsibility for your own health -- from a doctor is a powerful step. ~B. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/219 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Doctors ~B writes: "Sometimes a pain in the a** is just a ..... oh wait. Freud never said that." "Congratulations! Reclaiming your power -- and responsibility for your own health -- from a doctor is a powerful step." Maybe the message there was that I was being a pain in the a**? I probably was at that time. hahaha I know how I disjointed the t-bone. Sitting in a weird chair playing on the computer for hours and hours, days and days. It was my first computer and I was playing games on BBS's. Are you saying that you're a Doctor? I don't want to offend any Dr's, for there is a need for them, but I hope I never need one again, for medical purposes, that is. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/220 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Reminder I read it, printed it, forgot it and just re-read it, so I thought I'd remind everyone. In an email of 11/7/98, JJ said about the Song of the 144,000, among other things: "It is important that when saying the Song we say it with the visualization that everyone else saying it is present with us. This will cause the power of the Song to amplify in power individually and collectively." Now, I'm going to go say it while visualizing everyone saying it with me. The time will be 10:30 pm, central standard time. Let me know if you notice anything, ok? LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/221 From: "James Bryan" Subject: Re: Reminder "Now, I'm going to go say it while visualizing everyone saying it with me. The time will be 10:30 pm, central standard time. Let me know if you notice anything, ok? LeLona" Well, I said it at 11:30 EST and also visualized. I sort of felt like I was hearing an echo (internally). The atmosphere seems to get thicker between paragraphs (Light, Love and Power). Internally I can sense changes in me every time I read the song, even though physically I have not always been able to sense anything. Brings to mind that old song, (the singer eludes me) but it goes like this: Sing~~~~~~~~~~Sing a song~~~~~~~Make it simple ~~To last the whole night long......... Well I think you may know the rest, if not be glad. Good Night all Love, Light and Power TwinStorms AKA James Bryan Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/222 From: Isabelle Subject: 10:30 "Now, I'm going to go say it while visualizing everyone saying it with me. The time will be 10:30 pm, central standard time. Let me know if you notice anything, ok? LeLona" Awwww, I didn't check my mail in time to do it with you.. But that was just about the time I took the dog out for a walk and a huge wind came up.. And then it just went away. Very odd...Very refreshing too! Grins, Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/223 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Hello all.. Hello everyone, It has been almost 2 weeks since I lost access to a computer, and finally, I managed to get another one. When I returned I had 752 messages waiting in my email. I couldn't believe it! I deleted a good portion of them without reading them.. (Most of them.) However, I read many of the posts in this list. When I first joined this list, I believe I was one of only 10-11.. Now, at the last message I read, we are already at 69, and counting. There is hope for humanity after all. Your messages have been the most enlightening I've ever read. What is coming out of this list incredible. A gathering together of disciples and teachers alike. All I can say right now to describe what I've read in these messages, especially from JJ, is WOW. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings everyone. Your messages and insights have put me back on the path that I seem to keep falling away from. I sincerely hope that one day, I will be able to teach on the same level that John and Joseph do.. However, that is an awful lot of responsibility. Anyway, thank you very much, all of you. Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/224 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Playing John J J Dewey wrote: "I thought the group may enjoy an interplay where you have to answer questions. Here's the question. Not counting the Song of the 144,000 what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book (counting Books I and II as one Book)?" Just to add my quick 2 cents, I'm relatively positive that (I could be wrong!) the most important thing, other than the song, in the two books is the power of free will and decision. If we choose to give up our power to a seemingly 'higher' force then we are giving up who we are. If we are becoming that which other decide we become, then who are we, really? Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/225 From: J J Dewey Subject: Playing John Hint Let me repeat the question posed to the group. Here's the question. Not counting the Song of the 144,000 what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book (counting Books I and II as one Book)? Perhaps I should clarify this somewhat. What is the most important new teaching? The answers given thus far are very good. Here they are. There are so many teachings that spoke to me. But the admonishment to always live according to the highest Truth I've been given was a timely reminder to me. It's very simple when you say it fast but a profound spiritual principle when you think about it. To me the thing I learned most useful was that we can become one with Joseph, John, Jesus and also God when we tap our inner self. The most important revelation would be that we should confirm all truths and revelations with our Spirit (that still small voice). The Key is the most important to me. All of these are extremely important but what we are looking for is a very important principle that has not been revealed in fully in any other book I know about that was taught in both books I and II that may be more important than the first key itself. Here is a hint in the form of a riddle. Now pay careful attention to the wording in the riddle because you have to answer a question at the end. RIDDLE There's this bus making the rounds that has 6 passengers on it. It makes the first stop it picks up 3 passengers and lets out 2 On the next stop it picks up 4 and lets out 3 On the next stop it picks up 1 and lets out 2 On the next stop it picks up 4 and lets out 2 On the next stop it picks up 1 and lets out 2 On the next stop it picks up 5 and lets out 3 Then on the final stop it picks up 2 and lets out one. Scroll down to the question Question: How many stops did the bus make??? Not the question you expected, right? An extremely important teaching is presented in the book that is just as easy to miss, but you might have to step back to see it as such. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-9/226 From: J J Dewey Subject: Test for the Urantia Book I notice that we have been getting some postings from the Urantia Book. I have an interesting challenge for the Urantia Readers. Read the Life of Christ in the Urantia Book and then read The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi and then ask yourself which one speaks to your soul. You can download The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ for free at: http://www.interlog.com/~birkej/aquar001.htm You'll need to wait about 5 minutes after this page opens before it all loads then hit "save as". The Aquarian Gospel and The Urantia Book both can't be right because they present two very different stories of the missing years. Comparing these two versions is a good test of a seekers soul contact. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/227 From: "James Bryan" Subject: Re: Playing John Hint Upon further reflection and trying to remember all of the teachings that are in the book, without rereading it. If I step back and take a look at the big picture, I have to say that what I have not seen anywhere else has got to be.........................Hmmm Lets take a journey back in time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ further back ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ back to the beginning ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ God decided to Become that which He Decides to Become. "I AM Becoming that which I Decide to Become." God is Becoming by Reflecting Him/Her self. We are the Reflection of God, thus we are Becoming that which we decide to Become. I think that it is very important to realize and remember Who and What we are. God's reflection made manifest! More reflection is needed on this so tell me JJ, how did I do. By the way, you play John very well. Light, Love and Power! James Bryan Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/228 From: Dave Curtis Subject: Re: Playing John Hint One of the things that strikes me as being very important, that has also been overlooked in this group thus far, is the teaching of the 12 tribes of Israel. Out of memory, I cannot remember all 12, but I have been trying to memorize them. This isn't something that has ever been revealed in any previous book I've ever read. Peace and Love, Dave Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/229 From: Isabelle Subject: Re: Playing John Hint "Let me repeat the question posed to the group. Here's the question. Not counting the Song of the 144,000 what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book (counting Books I and II as one Book)? Perhaps I should clarify this somewhat. What is the most important new teaching?" "All of these are extremely important but what we are looking for is a very important principle that has not been revealed in fully in any other book I know about that was taught in both books I and II that may be more important than the first key itself." Well, I was going to answer that where one puts their ATTENTION is very important because focusing the attention on anything is a key in making any decision or learning any new teaching. But that is covered pretty much in "Island" by Huxley.. So it couldn't be that. ( It has been one of the great lessons in my life anyway.) Back to the question.. Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/230 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Playing John Hint The bus made 7 stops. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/231 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: 10:30 Isabelle writes: "Now, I'm going to go say it while visualizing everyone saying it with me. The time will be 10:30 pm, central standard time. Let me know if you notice anything, ok? LeLona" "Awwww, I didn't check my mail in time to do it with you.. But that was just about the time I took the dog out for a walk and a huge wind came up.. And then it just went away. Very odd...Very refreshing too!" Are you saying I'm a big wind? hahaha....Just kidding. Want to join me at 10:30 tonight, cst? I must say one thing, after the song last night I was wide awake until about 12:30. I didn't get up but just stayed in bed and kinda soaked in the peace. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/232 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Hello all.. Dave writes: "When I first joined this list, I believe I was one of only 10-11.. Now, at the last message I read, we are already at 69, and counting. There is hope for humanity after all. Your messages have been the most enlightening I've ever read. What is coming out of this list incredible. A gathering together of disciples and teachers alike. All I can say right now to describe what I've read in these messages, especially from JJ, is WOW." I'm glad you here! I joined at about 32. I know the feeling of WOW. I've been saying that ever since I joined, ever since I read the book, and still am saying WOW. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/233 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Playing John Dave writes: "If we choose to give up our power to a seemingly 'higher' force then we are giving up who we are. If we are becoming that which other decide we become, then who are we, really?" I'm not at all sure we ever give up our power of deciding, because even when we decide to let someone else make our decisions, that's a decision. We still have to decide to accept their decisions. This brings up a good point that I've been thinking about, and that is schizophrenia. I have a dear friend who has the disease. Since reading about cancer and MS I've been thinking about schizophrenia and its cause. From what I've put together so far I'm looking at the word decision, *to decide or not to decide*, *to change decisions radically* , or *make so many decisions that are opposing that schizophrenia occurs to carry them all out*. Anyone got any ideas? LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/234 From: Isabelle Subject: Re: 10:30 "Awwww, I didn't check my mail in time to do it with you.. But that was just about the time I took the dog out for a walk and a huge wind came up.. And then it just went away. Very odd...Very refreshing too!" "Are you saying I'm a big wind? hahaha....Just kidding. Want to join me at 10:30 tonight, cst? I must say one thing, after the song last night I was wide awake until about 12:30. I didn't get up but just stayed in bed and kinda soaked in the peace. LeLona" Double Gemini?? of course you're a big wind!! A very refreshing and interesting one! I was up late too.. But feel great today. I'll be there at 10:30 PM CST... Anyone else want to join us for the Song? Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/235 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days Rick Audette writes: "Anybody know of a mail-list I can join, where they talk about the Immortal?" Could you be more specific about the term *Immortal*? Polara Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/236 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: 10:30 I'll join in tonight. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/237 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: Test for the Urantia Book JJ writes: " I notice that we have been getting some postings from the Urantia Book." Yes, I have cross-posted, if this disturbs list members then I will cease. JJ writes: "I have an interesting challenge for the Urantia Readers. Read the Life of Christ in the Urantia Book and then read The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi and then ask yourself which one speaks to your soul. You can download The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ for free at: http://www.interlog.com/~birkej/aquar001.htm" Challenge accepted. JJ writes: "The Aquarian Gospel and The Urantia Book both can't be right because they present two very different stories of the missing years. Comparing these two versions is a good test of a seekers soul contact." Re Aquarian Gospel comparison to Urantia Book Section 1 Chapter 1 does not have a comparable Section in the UBook Section 2 Chapter 2 compares to Paper 122 Section 2 reference http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper122.htm of the UBook Chapter 3 compares to Paper 122 Sections 7 and 8 (same reference as above) Chapter 4 compares to Paper 122 Section 9 (same ref) Chapters 5 and 6 compare to Paper 122 Section 10 (same ref) Section 3 Chapter 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 do not have a counterpart in the UBook (Although certain of the philosophical and religious ideas are discussed elsewhere.) Section 4 Chapters 13, 14 and 15 do not have a couterpart in the UBook Section 5 Chapters 16 and 17 correspond to Paper 123 http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper123.htm Chapter 18, 19 and 20 correspond to Paper 124 http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper124.htm Section 6 Chapter 21 to 29 correspond to Papers 129 to 132 There is a disagreement on the age of Jesus when he made his travels. The AGospel says before the death of Joseph. The UBook says after the death of Joseph in his early adulthood. From the UBook The whole of Jesus' twenty-ninth year was spent finishing up the tour of the Mediterranean world. The main events, as far as we have permission to reveal these experiences, constitute the subjects of the narratives which immediately follow this paper. PAPER 130 - ON THE WAY TO ROME The tour of the Roman world consumed most of the twenty-eighth and the entire twenty-ninth year of Jesus' life on earth. Jesus and the two natives from India Gonod and his son Ganid left Jerusalem on a Sunday morning, April 26, A.D. 22. They made their journey according to schedule, and Jesus said good-bye to the father and son in the city of Charax on the Persian Gulf on the tenth day of December the following year, A.D. 23. A Gospel Chapter 21 A ROYAL prince of India, Ravanna of Orissa in the south, was at the Jewish feast. 2 Ravanna was a man of wealth; and he was just, and with a band of Brahmic priests sought wisdom in the West. Chapter 30 corresponds to Paper 126 http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper126.htm 2. THE DEATH OF JOSEPH All did go well until that fateful day of Tuesday, September 25, when a runner from Sepphoris brought to this Nazareth home the tragic news that Joseph had been severely injured by the falling of a derrick while at work on the governor's residence. The messenger from Sepphoris had stopped at the shop on the way to Joseph's home, informing Jesus of his father's accident, and they went together to the house to break the sad news to Mary. A Gospel From Chapters 31 to 60 onward Jesus moves very, very quickly throughout all of Asia, Greece, Egypt, Assyria and so on - A little hard to believe, if you plot his young age and travel speed via caravan and foot. In other words, the UBook gives a more believable travel schedule for Jesus in that era. Chapters 61 to 66 about John the Baptist or John the Harbringer or John son of Elizabeth, cousin to Mary, mother of Jesus compare to Paper 135 http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper135.htm Chapters 67 to 185 correspond roughly to Part IV of the UBook JJ writes: "Read the Life of Christ in the Urantia Book and then read The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi and then ask yourself which one speaks to your soul." I find very little discrepancy in these 2 works - the exception being the Chapters 31 to 60 where the many religious doctrines of the times are discussed. This may have been due to the bundling of the Melchizedek teachings with the Life of Jesus. Many of the doctrines in chapters 31 to 60 are discussed as the ancient teachings of the Salem missionaries from the Melchizedeks in the UBook. PAPER 95 Such natural evolutions of conscience and character were also augmented by the periodic arrival of teachers of truth, in ancient times from the second Eden, later on from Melchizedek's headquarters at Salem. PAPER 94 - THE MELCHIZEDEK TEACHINGS IN THE ORIENT The early teachers of the Salem religion penetrated to the remotest tribes of Africa and Eurasia, ever preaching Machiventa's gospel of man's faith and trust in the one universal God as the only price of obtaining divine favor. Melchizedek's covenant with Abraham was the pattern for all the early propaganda that went out from Salem and other centers. Urantia has never had more enthusiastic and aggressive missionaries of any religion than these noble men and women who carried the teachings of Melchizedek over the entire Eastern Hemisphere. These missionaries were recruited from many peoples and races, and they largely spread their teachings through the medium of native converts. They established training centers in different parts of the world where they taught the natives the Salem religion and then commissioned these pupils to function as teachers among their own people. AND PAPER 95 - THE MELCHIZEDEK TEACHINGS IN THE LEVANT As India gave rise to many of the religions and philosophies of eastern Asia, so the Levant was the homeland of the faiths of the Occidental world. The Salem missionaries spread out all over southwestern Asia, through Palestine, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Iran, and Arabia, everywhere proclaiming the good news Of the gospel of Machiventa Melchizedek. In some of these lands their teachings bore fruit; in others they met with varying success. Sometimes their failures were due to lack of wisdom, sometimes to circumstances beyond their control. ---- My personal point of view and a map of the Roman World to Asia favors the UBook progression of the travels of Jesus. He would have had to leave home at a very early age and travel considerable distances to keep up with the schedule in the A Gospel. Plus the Salem Melchizedek teachings were somehow intertwined as part of his travels. I have not discussed line by line differences between these 2 sources. I attribute many of these minor differences to translation prerogative (from foreign language to English) and personal translator privilege -- or -- the person who wrote the A Gospel (Levi?) had his own slant on the teachings of Jesus -- a common problem with biographers. The message overall is the same. Love the Father and Love your fellow man If there is a particular segment that has your curiosity, I would appreciate to hear it. Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/238 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Playing John Hint J J Dewey wrote: "Perhaps I should clarify this somewhat. What is the most important new teaching?" Oh so you want a NEW teaching, JJ. Well, let me see now, what could it be? Perhaps it's that Joshua makes a mean cup of tea - I didn't know that before ;-) Is there a prize if you get it? Like a weekend for two in Shamballa? You're a real tease, JJ. I've given away all my copies of the books - about half a dozen copies of Book 1 that I downloaded and my Book 1 & 2 is lent out. Thank heavens a second book is on its way to me as we speak because I want to get to the bottom of this great mystery. In the meantime, I'm off to work. Time to catch that bus.................:-) All love Glenys -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MORSEL: I dreamed a thousand new paths...I woke and walked my old one. - Chinese Proverb Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/239 From: "d.linen" Subject: The Urantia Book I have tried numerous times to read the Urantia Book but was unable to continue much farther than opening it, glancing through it and then closing it once more. Perhaps there was a "feel" of it that didn't quite ring true to me. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/240 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Playing John Hint When I learned that none of us had given the correct answer, I was surprised. I had just put a hi-liter pen with my copy of the book, last night, with the idea that I would begin reading it again and underlining stuff that stood out in my mind. Now, I thought, "Oh man, this could take days of detective work to go through and find what you're looking for." Then, out of nowhere, that still small voice spoke up and said that the answer was not GIVEN in the book by either John or Joseph. What I was being led to teach myself was that nobody could take my hand and lead me to the Kingdom. The answers weren't out there in a book, written by some authority greater than myself. The most I could ever get from them was in the nature of hints and information. To get True knowledge I would have to get them from inside myself. So I asked the voice for re- confirmation of what I thought it had just told me. It would not repeat the answer again. Then, after a moment, I heard, "If you really must make yourself even later for work by taking time to read something, just take a quick peek in Revelations." O.K. then, I will. So I popped it open, flipped a few pages and came to rest on Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me. COOL, hope He brings the tea. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/241 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Test for the Urantia Book When I attempt to read from the Urantia book, it always feels like it was written by a committee of Lawyers. The thing that always stuck out whenever I read from the Aquarian Gospel was that it was like the lyrics of a song. Friends and I have actually tried reading it sing-song fashion to background music and every page in the book lends itself beautifully to this process ( try it yourself and see). Being a songwriter myself, I may be biased, but I'll chose a song over a brief any day. Rick Post No. keys-1 /1998-11-10/242 From: Futr2000 Subject: Other books also appreciates Re: The Urantia Book Hello Diane, "dlinen" writes: "I have tried numerous times to read the Urantia Book but was unable to continue much farther than opening it, glancing through it and then closing it once more. Perhaps there was a "feel" of it that didn't quite ring true to me." I too opened and closed it more times than I can remember! My suggestion is start with Part 4 and work backwards through Parts 3, 2 and 1. -or- If you prefer synchronicity, meditate on a question and then open it at random. That seems to work well for certain tuned persons. Unfortunately, I have yet to find anything as comprehensive as the UBook. I would love to find any other books that treat the same subject matter seriously. Polara Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/243 From: "James Bryan" Subject: Re: 10:30 "I'll be there at 10:30 PM CST... Anyone else want to join us for the Song? Belle" Count me in! Light, Love and Power James Bryan Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/244 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: 10:30 A thought came to me today about our gathering tonight at 10:30, and that is, if you read page 128 "John began by closing his eyes for a moment. Then he opened them and slowly spoke...." After the first sentence is spoken, "John paused a moment and closed his eyes". Then he spoke the second part. "John was silent again. It doesn't say it in the book but I'm assuming John closed his eyes the third time because "...just as we were enjoying the greatest experience of our lives, John opened his eyes and spoke again" I think John is contacting the Father and Joshua at those moments his eyes are closed. So, I'm thinking that if we don't have these words memorized yet that we can begin by closing our eyes and reaching inward to the highest of our knowing, opening our eyes and reading the words. If we do have the words memorized by now (which I don't) then go right into reciting the words. JJ says "it is important that when saying the Song we say it with the visualization that everyone else saying it is present with us." Last night when I said the Song I visualized all of us in a circle, 2 or 3 rows deep, with no one in the center, but all of us saying the words together. Because I know what some of you look like it was easy to visualize you in the "inner circle". Anyone have any other thoughts or ideas that will help? LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/245 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Giving up our power of decision "I'm not at all sure we ever give up our power of deciding, because even when we decide to let someone else make our decisions, that's a decision." Actually, it's the other way around. Giving away our power of decision is acquiescing. Making a decision is a process that involves action and effort. A good example would be someone that goes to college because of pressure from his parents. He didn't make a decision, he's just following the path of least resistance for himself. JJ gave a better example in his book through John. I don't remember where it is though. Still here but lurkin', Rob Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/246 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: re: Song of 144K LeLona writes: "JJ says "it is important that when saying the Song we say it with the visualization that everyone else saying it is present with us." "Anyone have any other thoughts or ideas that will help? LeLona" I try to visualize myself singing w/ everyone from the past, present, and future. In my little mental place, there's 3 huge stadiums in a row. The left one is an old coliseum- looking one representing all that is past. The center is a present day looking baseball or football stadium. The one on the right is a futuristic domed stadium representing all that is yet to be. Each is filled to the max w/ people from their respective time periods--myself being in the middle one. Then we all sing the song. This is probably more detail than is required. But what the heck, I'm a Virgo. Here a lurkin', there a lurkin', everywhere a lurkin' lurkin', Rob Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/247 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Giving up our power of decision TeKnoBabL writes: "Thanks for your ideas. I'll take a look at it. The path of least resistance seems to be a major part of the disease, so I'll consider that." LeLona "it's the other way around. Giving away our power of decision is acquiescing. Making a decision is a process that involves action and effort." A good example would be someone that goes to college because of pressure from his parents. He didn't make a decision, he's just following the path of least resistance for himself. "JJ gave a better example in his book through John. I don't remember where it is though." Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/248 From: TeKnoBabL Subject: Re: Playing John Hint JJ Dewey wrote: "Now pay careful attention to the wording in the riddle because you have to answer a question at the end." I tripped up on the riddle--I thought the question was going to ask me to do some calculating regarding the people. After some thinking I realize that NOT paying attention to the wording of your above statement was the first step in deceiving myself. You didn't specify what we had to answer a question about. Therefore anything was game. The second step was that I began reading the riddle w/ this preconceived notion regarding math problems--if there's a quantity being added and subtracted, the question is going to ask what's left over. So, I guess the lesson here is to be infinitely open-minded--to consider possibilities regardless of how implausible they seem. Or, as the bible puts it, we should be like children. Just my 2 cents, Rob Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-10/249 From: Rick Audette Subject: Catch a falling star There's nothing like a spectacular celestial light show to help one feel connected to the whole universe. Next Wednesday night there is going to be a big meteor shower which will stand out even better since it's during the new moon. Might be a good night to do a group song, outdoors. I know, if it's not cloudy, that's where I'll be. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/250 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: My picture Namaste folks, I'm a few days behind reading my mail, but here goes :) Lelona wrote: "Here's a picture of me. I've never tried sending it to a mailing list, so don't know if everyone can just click and look. If any of you have a picture I'd sure like to see it. I saw Samu's at his site. I'm a bit older than him, I think. :)" Lelona, I was able to decode your ascii attachment into a jpg file, and you look beautiful! :) I've always felt physical age is a relative quite unimportant thing, and something I've never paid attention to really...All ages are wonderful, all time is equally important, and that's why I enjoy being 26, right now that is, heheee :D Rick wrote: "Spiritweb asks that these things not be sent through the list. It just came through as ascii text here. I don't mind swapping pictures with "family" send it as an attachment to me off list and I will send mine back." Hey, I'd love to see what the other family members look like in their present 3d-love-uniforms :D Rick, mind sending me your pic, please? :) If anybody else feel like sharing their pic, please do :) That would have to be via private mail though, we don't wanna break the rules of Ren's most magnificent SpiritWeb, one of the brightest Lighthouses out on the cybersea :) I will try to catch up on your writings and contribute some if I feel I have anything substantial to add :) Much love to all, Samu Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/251 From: TeKnoBabL@... Subject: Re: Catch a falling star Rick, Where is the shower visible from? I live in Wisconsin. Which row of seats does that put me in? :-) Rob Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/252 From: "d.linen" Subject: Playing John Hint The answer to the question is: 7 stops BUT... Is the message to pay strict attention to what is actually said? Not to try to second guess or interpret? Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/253 From: "d.linen" Subject: The Meteor Shower The meteor showers should be visible all over the country if the skies are clear. I am going to drive out to West Texas with a friend to view it under the clear skies out there. It should be fun. The lights in a city will make viewing more difficult so if possible, try to get outside of city lights. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/254 From: BNOREM Subject: Anybody know of a mail-list I can join, where they talk about the Immortal? From: (rick audette) Subject: Re: A point of reference Re: Ancient of Days "Anybody know of a mail-list I can join, where they talk about the Immortal?" My sentiments exactly, Rick. I joined a little over a week ago when I received the info from JJ about the discussion list begun by you. I was excited & pleased to see that we would have a place to discuss the wonderful lessons put forth by JJ in the Immortal. I have been observing and not joining in yet (as I usually do for a week or so when I join a new list) so I could get an idea of the type of discussion going on so far - I had about decided that the Immortal was the last thing anyone wanted to discuss, except for the attempts by you & JJ to bring it back to the point of the list. So thank you for expressing my feelings on the matter, and as an attempt on my part, I will answer JJ's question on "what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book to you". I will have to say that the fact that none of us ever stop evolving & "Becoming what we Decide to Become" - even God - was the most important revelation to me. I'm like JJ said to John, "You know, I've always thought that the regular religious view of God is very boring and undesirable. They say He knows everything and lives in ultimate perfection that cannot be improved. I would not want to be in that situation. There would be nothing to look forward to." My sentiments exactly!! If the orthodox religious views of Heaven - of lolling around in eternal Bliss with no on-going learning experiences taking place - is true, then I don't want to go there - I would be bored outta my skull! I embrace & rejoice in what John said in reply to JJ: "That is a great point," said John. "Such a state would be the worst hell one could imagine. For one thing if there was ultimate perfection then no decisions would be required. If there were no decisions possible then there would be no life. The very life of God would die. Fortunately, we live in a Universe where there is much uncertainty and many decisions are always required. It will be that way with periods of rest until the TWELVE become ONE. And even then another great decision will be made." OK - I'll crawl off my soapbox now & await the many comments which I know will be forthcoming. Much love to all, Betty Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/255 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Catch a falling star Rob wrote: "Where is the shower visible from? I live in Wisconsin. Which row of seats does that put me in?" Try search for words 'Leonid meteor shower' in AltaVista or some other search prog, I am sure this will give you a good amount of info of the visibility in Wisconsin. I remember reading somewhere that in Finland the 'show' will be quite near the horizon, so my seats will be a little further back in this earthly theater, but you can bet I will stand under this celestial shower! :D Samu Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/256 From: "d.linen" Subject: Sing a Song Hi All, It seems that every time I sing the song, I see or hear a different aspect of it. I see a word that has a new meaning for me. I do try to visualize everyone but haven't been successful yet. It's more like I feel everyone but don't see them. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/257 From: J J Dewey Subject: Another Hint My Good Friends, Your answers to the question about the important revelation are so good that I would feel wrong in saying that you are wrong. Rather that say anything that would discourage you in any way from contemplating any of the teachings I will say that the teaching we are looking for is an extremely important one and when it is revealed you will all remember reading about it in both Books I and II. It is not a teaching you need to search for because it is clearly in your memory and consciousness, but you need to change your thinking to find it. Do not let your mind go in the obvious direction counting the number of people on the bus, but look at the bus itself. We've only been at this pursuit a couple days. You can imagine the patience required to wait a week between hints. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/258 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Playing John Hint Dear friends, I am really enjoying this conversation... It is so titillating :) Thank you all for participating. Well first of all, I can't respond to the original question by JJ which was 'Not counting the Song of the 144,000 what is the most important revelation or teaching of the book (counting Books I and II as one Book)? or What is the most important new teaching?' because I am still to read part II of the book. I would however like to add my $.02 in the discussion regarding the riddle JJ presented. It is sometimes hard for me to find the exact right nuance among English words which would precisely equal what my thought or feeling is, so forgive me if I'm a little off, I'll try my best. Here goes :) The structure of the riddle that was presented went like this: "Now pay careful attention to the wording in the riddle because you have to answer a question at the end." (outlining the riddle/hint) "There's this bus making the rounds that has 6 passengers on it." (the riddle itself) *snip* "Question: How many stops did the bus make???" Which was the question, and for sure wasn't what most of us expected to hear, I *expected* to have to be prepared to do some simple math, wrong-o :) The answer to the question is 7, but what can I symbolically learn from the riddle? Hmmm... First thing to cross my mind is quite simple. Pay attention to what's going on, not where things *might* be leading. It's another way of saying, fully be here now with *everything you are*. Ahaa, You Are All there Is. Good old We Are One. That includes God too, or whatever name you've chosen to describe The Original Spark with in (within:) your relative world of reference. And this unit of One is subject to one constant, which also was a quality of the Original Spark, and that is change. Such a beautiful paradox, isn't it? :) Thus, we are eternally changing, and that is the Becoming part that we have been discussing here. By reading the introduction and the beginning of the riddle, many of us automatically expect a certain pattern to appear and manifest. This doesn't have to be so, but this is the case in life itself so often too. We should free ourselves of expectations and limitations, set to ourselves by ourselves. Quoting Rob: Anything is game. And the rules of this game allows anything, unless we choose to limit the choices between the movements on the divine chessboard :) One thing that comes to my mind reading the riddle is too that when we are aware of everything we choose to focus on around us, we already have the answers within, *regardless* of the question posed. Once again, it comes back to oneness within, being connected all-ways. Also, the quantity and quality of intake and output of single events might not stay constant, but it is the overall result of the chain of events that literally counts. Well, those were my two shiny twin coins :D I might get more insights regarding the riddle later, but that's it for now. Any comments? :) Feeling exceptionally ticklish in a spiritual way, Samu :) Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/259 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Playing John Hint Samu writes: "Feeling exceptionally ticklish in a spiritual way," I like your words, even if you have trouble expressing them thru the English language. While on the way to work this morning with JJ's email in mind, I thought, well, JJ went to Wayne to bounce it off him. We have a lot of Wayne's on this list. My name is Wayne too. A bus. A means of public transportation. What else do we know about a bus? Why didn't he use an airplane as a means of public transportation, for that it is. Even if I know the answer I'm not going to say it so everyone Joseph on this list can bounce the question around every Elizabeth and Wayne and let the revelation come from within. Also, thanks, Samu for your kind words re my picture. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Behold the beauty within you! How'd the Song go for you guys last night? Well, since I've meditated for year and years I still find times when I can't, so I don't force myself. But last night was not that kind of night. I don't remember just where it happened, either between the first and second or the second and third, but what I was *seeing* is all of us in a tight circle and suddenly there appeared a *dove* in the center a little above us showering LIGHT. To me the dove represents the Holy Spirit. I think it must have been after the second sentence because after the third sentence I was intently looking at the colors coming down. After that I had the same feeling as the night before, total peace, and my body so at rest. Y'all have a good day now, ya' hear? :) LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/260 From: "James Bryan" Subject: Back on the bus Ok, is this where I can get my Bus pass? "Do not let your mind go in the obvious direction counting the number of people on the bus, but look at the bus itself What is so special about a Bus? It travels around picking up passengers from many different locations and takes them to a desired or their next location. It's passengers are from all walks of life and they all take different paths to get to the Bus Stop. The Bus makes stops at many locations, where it picks up new passengers and lets off existing passengers to begin a new journey. If one had a goal to get on the Bus, they would take the path that provided them the quickest and easiest way to reach the Bus stop. (I would hope) Side note: When I was a child, I would catch a bus with my Mother. We went to visit my Aunt every Sunday. I looked forward to that visit because my Aunt made the best chicken and dumplings I ever tasted, and she always made them for me. So the bus ride to my Aunts was filled with great expectations. So back to the Bus, could the Bus represent a place in between lifetimes (incarnations)? A place of contemplation, the New Jerusalem, Shambala, Heaven or however it is, conceived by each individual. When we depart the Bus, do we start a new life experience (incarnation) or journey? Does this journey consist of lessens that we experience on whatever path we take to get back to the Bus stop. In conclusion for now, I guess Life is a journey and we are all travelers whose goal is to learn our lessons from life experiences. As we try and remember Who and What We are and where we all came from as well as where we are all going, I think that it is important to remember that it does not matter what path someone takes to get to the Bus Stop. If we are headed there also, I assume we shall see them there. I can't wait for the next time someone asks me how to find the Bus stop.;-)) The next question would be, how many times does one have to ride the Bus before they arrive at a final destination, or is there a final destination? And Who is the Bus Driver? Excuse me, did I miss the Bus here? Do you know when the next Bus arrives? Exercising the brain helps relieve brain cramps, but like any exercise can produce an aching. Ouch! Any body got any Ben Gay for the brain? Light, Love and Power! James Bryan Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/261 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Another Hint I have to go with what Betty was saying. While browsing through the book, this morning, that point came up. What threw me off, was that JJ had said that it was a new revelation that was not in any other books. I had already come to the conclusion that even God was still growing and learning new things and had written about it in my journal which I had shared with others, on another mail-list. If even the God, of our understanding, still has questions to ask, and we are reflections of this God, then there should never be an end to our search for Truth. On page 29 it says, "You are either afraid of truth and do not want to know more than your comfort zone will allow, or you are open to truth and change and your range of inquiry is infinite." Again, "INQUIRY IS INFINITE" Then a song, by Joan Osborne came on the radio; What if God was one of us, Just a slob like one of us; Just a stranger on the BUS, Trying to make His way home, Like a Holy Rolling Stone. Funny how my radio does that, now and then!!! So, maybe this still isn't the answer to JJ's question, but it's worth thinking about. One, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/262 From: Glenys Lowery Subject: Re: Another Hint Maybe the bus is our higher self, our 'vehicle' and it stops 1000 times. I know it's a far shot but the 1000 lifetimes represented by the 1000 petalled lotus of the crown chakra was a new teaching for me. All love Glenys Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/263 From: Isabelle Subject: Speaking of buses Rick wrote: "On page 29 it says, "You are either afraid of truth and do not want to know more than your comfort zone will allow, or you are open to truth and change and your range of inquiry is infinite." "Again, "INQUIRY IS INFINITE" In Tom Wolfe's "Electric Kool-aid Acid Test", Ken Kesey (Who also wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) and the Merry Pranksters of the sixties travelled in a psychedelically painted bus all over the U.S. New ways of thinking and behaving were being pushed to the limits by the "passengers". People got on the bus and some remained.. Some felt they could not handle this intense trip and got "Off the bus" . When the bus was ready to leave a town, you were either "On the Bus" or "Off the Bus" It was your DECISION.. It was thought to be a Cosmic/New Age/ Spiritual ADVENTURE.. The name of the bus was "Further" Since Rick's post brought this to my mind, I will spend some time today pondering why this might have meaning to me.. Hmmmm, what is it about busses?? JJ, what have you started here?? Grins, Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/264 From: alice despard Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-11-09 of The Keys of Knowledge List "That's my theory, anyway. I get the impression that the Dark Brothers would like to use the same tactics today to gain control. All this x files stuff that is being introduced, everywhere you look, has been a major turn-off for me. I'm so glad to be on a mail-list where every other post isn't about our space brothers coming to take over the earth. Rick" Rick,, Here, here!! I agree about the space alien stuff on tv, etc. what a cop-out and what a fright tactic!! there have been some good shows, I might add, which have left the air after one season: The Visitor (basically an Ascended Master coming down to earth to teach us a thing or two), and Nothing Sacred ( a real attempt to salvage something from the sinking wreckage of Churchianity). I mourned the loss of these two shows. Such an antidote to x files....guess we weren't ready, huh? Also, footnote to Tree of Life discussion: I have to tell you that I had a meditation on this months ago, and had no idea what it was about, having no exposure to the Kaballah, etc. Here is what I wrote down ( a meditation on Good Will): "I am the Tree of Life: with roots which plunge deep and branches which reach high". That's all I got, but wow, plenty to think about. Peace, alice Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/265 From: alice despard Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-11-08 of The Keys of Knowledge List Belle, Wanted to get back to you, though tardily, about the Emerald Tablets you mentioned. I have read the Kybalion, and Light on the Path seems to be related also; where would I find the Emerald Tablets to help me complete this picture? I am really enjoying the postings and thinking of people on this list. It's startling that so many fine minds have come together so quickly. Maybe the Christ Mind is returning and creating a critical mass here on the net... By the way, I, too have finished Book II and am ready for Book III. Any word as to a timetable for the release of the third volume? Waiting anxiously, yet send Peace to you all, alice Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/266 From: Isabelle Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-11-08 of The Keys of Knowledge "Belle, Wanted to get back to you, though tardily, about the Emerald Tablets you mentioned. I have read the Kybalion, and Light on the Path seems to be related also; where would I find the Emerald Tablets to help me complete this picture? Alice" Hi Alice, A very nice man from New Zealand went to the trouble of putting them up on the web..They can be found at: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/duncan.watson/Tablets/tablets.htm I have been reading them periodically since the late 70's and am amazed at how many new things come through with each new reading.. I think this site tells where you can order them in book form too.. Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/267 From: Futr2000 Subject: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book Rick Audette writes: "When I attempt to read from the Urantia book, it always feels like it was written by a committee of Lawyers. The thing that always stuck out whenever I read from the Aquarian Gospel was that it was like the lyrics of a song. Friends and I have actually tried reading it sing-song fashion to background music and every page in the book lends itself beautifully to this process ( try it yourself and see). Being a songwriter myself, I may be biased, but I'll chose a song over a brief any day. Rick" Agreed..... but there is a time and place for reference works and for songs. Each has its own beauty and truth. Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/268 From: Futr2000 Subject: Re: Emerald Tablets Hello Belle, Isabelle writes: "Hi Alice, A very nice man from New Zealand went to the trouble of putting them up on the web.. They can be found at: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/duncan.watson/Tablets/tablets.htm" Thank you for the website information. I only had the first 9 chapters I was unaware that more existed. Thxs Polara http://members.aol.com/futr2000/day9.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/269 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book "Agreed..... but there is a time and place for reference works and for songs. Each has its own beauty and truth. Polara" O.K., but I have owned and read several copies of the Aquarian Gospel and will likely buy another soon. But, when I see the UBook in stores, I always hope nobody will ever buy it so the retailer will send it back to the publisher, unread. Since I have no conscious memory of the actual events depicted in either of the two books, I have only my "gut feelings" to guide me in deciding the veracity of the sources. And my gut feelings lead me to choose the Aquarian Gospel. Years of experience have led me to trust my gut feelings. I joined this list for the express purpose of learning the Keys of knowledge, as taught by JJ Dewey and the description of this list, given at spiritweb, states that that is the purpose of all those that join this list. If anybody wants to start a mail list, devoted to discussing the UBook, they can submit a proposal to Spiritweb to do so. It is not difficult to start a mail list. I have received several private e-mails, from list members that share my feelings on this subject. I set up this list to be open to all and don't feel comfortable when I have to call any meeting to order. Nevertheless, I feel a responsibility to voice the opinion of the majority of people that joined this list with that understanding. We all come from different backgrounds but are here to discuss these new teachings and how to put them into practice, not to debate them. Thank you for giving this matter your attention and I am sorry if I have stepped on anybody's toes. It was as painful to me as it may have been to you. Your humble servant, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/270 From: Futr2000 Subject: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book Hi Rick, Rick Audette writes: "I have owned and read several copies of the Aquarian Gospel and will likely buy another soon. But, when I see the UBook in stores, I always hope nobody will ever buy it so the retailer will send it back to the publisher, unread." A strange wish from an open mind - much puzzlement here. "Since I have no conscious memory of the actual events depicted in either of the two books, I have only my "gut feelings" to guide me in deciding the veracity of the sources. And my gut feelings lead me to choose the Aquarian Gospel." They seem to enhance each other in my eyes - not cancel out. Why the either-or necessity? Part 4 of the Urantia Book is a restatement of the latter chapters of the Aquarian Gospel. There are some differences about the middle years of the life of Jesus which I attributed to the Melchizedeck teachings in the Levant and the Orient being combined into the life of Jesus. Often times in storytelling license is given to squash timeframes for the sake of the audience -- the docudrama is one such example. I do not know the specific audience intended for the Aquarian Gospel relative to the time when it was put to paper. "Years of experience have led me to trust my gut feelings." Yes, the still, small voice should be trusted. I use just such a one. I will stop my postings on the UBook as a cross-comparison. I have not received any direct complaints from listmembers about my UBook postings. I simply answered a challenge put forth about the differences between the Aquarian Gospel and the Urantia Book. I would love to see more comparisons between the Emerald Tablets, the Kaballah, the Keys of Enoch and the Keys of Knowledge - to name just a few. If the list is as diverse as you say, I would love to hear about additional sources for similar material. "Nevertheless, I feel a responsibility to voice the opinion of the majority of people that joined this list with that understanding. We all come from different backgrounds but are here to discuss these new teachings and how to put them into practice, not to debate them." If you know how to put something into practice without debating or discussing it, I would love to hear your technique. I am not so skilled. Polara http://members.aol.com/omegagbg/1part10.htm Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/271 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book Well, to put it another way; I have read more than 1,000 books onphilosophy, religion, and the like, and have been a member of several intentional communities. I have tried to take what is good from all of them and distill it down into my own personal philosophy. When discussing it with others I try to use terms that are understandable by the individuals present. My ideas are easier to accept when the listener feels that they are mine and I am not attempting to sell them on any single viewpoint. I have as many different interests as the average roomful of people and am known for my open mindedness. I belong to several different mail-lists and when there try to limit my input to the intended topic. I respect anyone that has spent 30 years studying what they feel is important. But, I would much rather hear your opinions on it and how it has effected your life than to see quote after quote from the source. I have always been curious of what the UBook is about, but for whatever reason, have never been able to get into it because of the way it is presented. If I visit France, I will do my best to parle francais. If you can talk about your subject, in terms that my simple mind can digest, I can love you, even if I still don't agree with you. That's just human nature and, alas, I am still all too human. As the list operator, I tend to get lots of mail, off-list, from the members. Many feel very special about this list and hope that it will continue to be the greatest thing they have ever found. I am not in the operator position to be in control of anyone. I am only trying to be of service to all of my brothers and sisters that seek Truth. It would make me sad to think that even a single person would ever feel the need to leave this beautiful new family. I would welcome the devil himself if he were willing to cooperate in the effort we are all making in finding Truth and oneness. I will gladly welcome any criticisms if anyone feels that I am not operating within the spirit of what we stand for here. Your servant, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/272 From: "Kevin Shannon" Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book Hi Everyone: Kevin from Federal Way, WA uncloaking (leaving lurk mode). I tried reading the Urantia Book, but only got through a couple chapters before casting it aside. No offense intended, but I had a negative initial reaction to the book. I trust my first instincts. I have not read or attempted to read the Aquarian Gospel, so I cannot make the comparison. However, when I ran across The Immortal online, I downloaded it and read it all in one sitting. My initial reaction to this book was and is, I want more. The Immortal for me, reopened a door that I had shut long ago. I am, after many years, actively trying to remember why I came here and for what purpose. When I first started reading The Immortal, it was as if a light that had been extinguished and thought dead burst back to life. Now, all that being said, I say The Immortal contains truth, while I doubt I would get much from the Urantia Book. With much love, Kevin Shannon Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-11/273 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Book Rick Audette writes: "I will gladly welcome any criticisms if anyone feels that I am not operating within the spirit of what we stand for here." I'm not here to criticize, but to applaud for standing up for the rights of the Spirit of this list. I think we all here have been and are on many mailing lists and everywhere it is difficult to keep the subject the topic of conversation. I just left a list because they got off the topic for so long, discussing something totally unrelated, and when I complained they tried to convince me that their discussion WAS related. Rather than argue the point I left because it seemed that the majority wanted to discuss a topic other than the reason for the list. I found it disappointing to see quoted material from another book. I would rather someone tell me their understanding of another book rather than quoting from that book. I haven't read the UBook, but do have the book Keys of Enoch. So I don't want to put the book down without even having read it. But I joined this list to discuss this book. There's so much in it that can be discussed and pointed out that we just don't have time to compare it to another book, or discuss another book. I don't want this list going the way of other lists. We can all read the same paragraph and each of us getting something different out of it. When we share what we see that turns a light on for others and they say "gee, why didn't I see that before?". This way we each uplift each other and keep this list the special list it is. If I someday want to buy the UBook, which I have already inquired about from the publishers, I will. Today I have the Immortal Book. This list is to discuss the IBook. Keep it that way. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/274 From: JOHN KOSIOR Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Re: Test for the Urantia Rick Audette wrote: "I will gladly welcome any criticisms if anyone feels that I am not operating within the spirit of what we stand for here." Hi Rick, I believe the criticism you should hear is: "Well done, thou good and faithful servant". With Formidable Gratitude, John Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/275 From: "d.linen" Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs I do feel this list is "special" and appreciate it so very much. It grows daily. I fully enjoy reading others' words and thoughts on the book. I love the thought provoking questions that JJ poses to the list even if I can't seem to come up with the definitive answers to them ;-) Other books and ideas are interesting but this list is more about The Immortal and the Keys of Knowledge than they are and I would like to keep more on this subject. Thanks so much Rick, Diane "Many feel very special about this list and hope that it will continue to be the greatest thing they have ever found. I am not in the operator position to be in control of anyone. I am only trying to be of service to all of my brothers and sisters that seek Truth. It would make me sad to think that even a single person would ever feel the need to leave this beautiful new family. I would welcome the devil himself if he were willing to cooperate in the effort we are all making in finding Truth and oneness. I will gladly welcome any criticisms if anyone feels that I am not operating within the spirit of what we stand for here. Your servant, Rick" Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/276 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Song Backing up a page, to 127, did you notice, or has it clicked yet that John told Joseph and Elizabeth that "the song will not be sung, in the ordinary sense, on the physical plane but by souls of aspiring disciples. John said "It is to be spoken out loud and registered by the spirit within. When the words are registered by the soul a beautiful song is sent to God, and, in return, the seeker will receive spiritual protection and assistance". OK, so I tried that last night, saying it out loud rather than reading it internally. I did notice a difference. Kinda like waves of vibration coming back through my atmosphere. Isn't it funny how things work? I would have thought that my soul could have been reached quicker by saying it internally. Wonder why that is? LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/277 From: "d.linen" Subject: The Song "Isn't it funny how things work? I would have thought that my soul could have been reached quicker by saying it internally. Wonder why that is? LeLona" Hi LeLona, I would think that more resonance can be achieved by sound rather than thought? Sort of like chanting OM..? I have heard this in a room full of people and it's awesome. I have also heard singing bowls played in a room with 20 or 30 people and that's awesome too. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/278 From: Brian Weis Subject: Re: Song you wrote: "Isn't it funny how things work? I would have thought that my soul could have been reached quicker by saying it internally. Wonder why that is?" That is because hearing is so very powerful, a spiritual catylist. You speak, your ears hear your words, and the words become written upon your heart. Be careful of what you say within your own earshot. And guard yourself from the careless words of others. Can you imagine what our children would be like if they were to be immersed in pools of positive and inspiring words? If they learned to say these same words to themselves? Emerson said, "A man is what he thinks about.....all day long". Yes, and that image is reinforced by his words. Peace! ~B Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/279 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Song LeLona wrote: "Isn't it funny how things work? I would have thought that my soul could have been reached quicker by saying it internally. Wonder why that is?" Hi Lelona and All, I think it is because when you say it aloud and feel it, resonate with its content with every aspect of your being, you are sending out the high vibration in several dimensions simultaneously, where it will again resonate with similar forms of energy with high vibration and return to you amplified manifold. Like John says: "It is to be spoken out loud and registered by the spirit within. When the words are registered by the soul a beautiful song is sent to God, and, in return, the seeker will receive spiritual protection and assistance". Emotion and thought are very powerful but sound is even more 'material' in the dimension our awareness is focused upon, and when you combine these, voila! :) Samu Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/280 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: The Song Diane Linen writes: "I would think that more resonance can be achieved by sound rather than thought? Sort of like chanting OM..? I have heard this in a room full of people and it's awesome. I have also heard singing bowls played in a room with 20 or 30 people and that's awesome too." You have a point there. I've chanted the OM too with many people, and it does vibrate the atmosphere much more than many people meditating. Interesting idea. I also have a Tibetan singing bowl but I've never played it with others. I wish I could. The bowl really sets up a vibration, but the spoken word vibrated like nothing else. That reminds me that in the beginning of the book John is talking about names and their meanings. Maybe that's what he's talking about here too. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/281 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Song Bryan writes: "Thanks ~B and Samu, both, for your messages. I just never thought about the science of sound. But, "in the beginning, God spoke the word...." and that word is still vibrating, huh? That is because hearing is so very powerful, a spiritual catalyst. You speak, your ears hear your words, and the words become written upon your heart." I agree, then, be careful what we say within our own earshot. What power or destruction words can do. I actually felt the vibrations coming back toward me as I paused between each sentence. Have you tried that? Reminds me -sticks and stones can hurt my bones but words will never hurt me- But they do. I don't know the history of that rhyme, but like most rhymes there is a truth behind it. I don't care whether I know that truth or not, because I don't want to get off the subject. So, my next question is *what is email words doing?" Written, spoken, thought. Two are spoken internally, one externally. I know written words vibrate also. Well, maybe that's off the subject too. Guess I'm running on at the mouth....or is that fingers? :) LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/282 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Diane wrote: "I do feel this list is "special" and appreciate it so very much. It grows daily. I fully enjoy reading others' words and thoughts on the book. I love the thought provoking questions that JJ poses to the list even if I can't seem to come up with the definitive answers to them ;-)" "Other books and ideas are interesting but this list is more about The Immortal and the Keys of Knowledge than they are and I would like to keep more on this subject. Thanks so much Rick," I couldn't agree more! I too think this list is *very* special. Thank you Rick, JJ, and all the Seekers of Truth contributing to our common goal, finding the Truth, reaching Oneness, together. It is when we equally work together having made a collective decision to focus, aim and reach for the highest Good available for us. I love the way we all add our own characteristic spice to this soup, and bounce ideas and insights off of each other. Together we create a chain of actions and reactions, seeds and flowers, thoughts and outcome manifestations we couldn't come up with alone. And that works in every direction between all of us. That alone makes this list very special. I find it so fascinating that souls who have decided to incarnate all around Terra can communicate and grow together like this. I am grateful :) I have ordered The Immortal via Amazon. I really hope it doesn't take more than a couple of weeks max for an international order to be delivered. Can't wait to read part II, it is sorta frustrating not being able to fully participate in the conversation not having read as much as most of you guys :) Another lesson of patience for me. Ouch :) Learning patience takes patience. Paradox paradox :D May Light descend upon each Seekers path, Samu Ps. I have come to the conclusion regarding the bus. It's gotta be an old red English double- decker, otherwise there wouldn't be enough room for all the disciples of these times we are living in. Let's not start squabbling who gets a 2nd floor seat though. Heheheeee :) No seriously, I am still contemplating the whole bus thing, hmmmmmm... I will try to verbalize my thoughts a little later:) Rick, loved your synchronous Joan Osborne on the radio experience :) Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/283 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Re: OOps missed it Re: Of songs Samu writes: "all around Terra can communicate and grow together like this. I am grateful :)" "I have ordered The Immortal via Amazon." Ok, so where's Terra? You should have ordered from JJ. Freight is included :) I ordered my first book from Amazon, and your freight will probably be more than mine, but then I ordered 5 more books from JJ. Freight is included in his price. But he'd probably have to add something for freight to other countries. Saved me about, oh, I'd say $10 to $15 just in freight. Keep posting, Samu. I love the delight I find in your posts. I'll fight you for a seat on the top deck of that double-decker. 'Course, over here, we don't have them kind, so you'll have to give up your double deck seat to us over here. :) LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/284 From: Isabelle Subject: Bells,bowls, etc "I also have a Tibetan singing bowl but I've never played it with others. I wish I could. The bowl really sets up a vibration, but the spoken word vibrated like nothing else." "That reminds me that in the beginning of the book John is talking about names and their meanings. Maybe that's what he's talking about here too. LeLona" I have meant to mention this before.. Sorry I don't have my book to see just where I was when this remembrance came about.. I MUST keep a copy here. :-) Have no doubt that the power of sound can be most amazing. Anyway, a friend of mine who is very into bells had a glassblower make some quartz crystal wine glasses and a quartz singing bowl.. One night at a small gathering he brought them out for us to see and to "play" (Running our fingers around the rim of the glasses while he struck the bowl) Totally amazing and beautiful sounds..Very ethereal. Another friend had gone outside for a while to be in the moonlight and could hear the sounds from there. The sounds flipped her into an altered state of consciousness which was very disturbing to some at the gathering.. She was saying things which came from the core of her being about the spirit of her child while throwing the child up in the air and catching her.. No one was quite prepared for this and helping her back to her "normal" state of consciousness was a very delicate affair as people were concerned for the safety of the child.. Otherwise we probably would have let her play out whatever it was that she needed to do and say.. When she returned to her normal consciousness she remembered nothing about the incident except that she was outside and heard a sound calling her. As far as I know this bowl was put away and has not been "played" since.. The rest of the gathering had just been in a very peaceful meditative state from the sounds.. Anyone here have an idea why one person would react so differently??? JJ?? Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/285 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: The Whole Bus Thing Samu writes: "the whole bus thing, hmmmmmm..." Another thing about buses is that they all have a driver. And it costs a fee to get on. Occasionally there's a free-ride-day. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/286 From: alice despard Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-11-10 of The Keys of Knowledge List RESPONSE TO JJ's RIDDLE Dearest JJ, Here is my attempt at stepping back and discovering a teaching: Buddha and Moses were world teachers bearing Light Christ was a world teacher bearing Love Next? the last part of the Trinity: teachings which bear Power..the Will aspect of the Trinity. A very tricky subject for mankind, as we have so often misinterpreted and abused power, much less Power. The Power of the Holy Spirit in the life of each of us still contains vast mystery. Who has not wondered about this third and mysterious aspect of the Holy Trinity? Let alone its relationship to the rest of the Trinity. Also, the relationship of the Trinity to the microcosm of each life: that in each life we are given one life lesson to learn, one talent to develop, one quality to enhance. Is this a blueprint of the Trinity at work within each individual? In relation to this, the mystery presented about the Tree of Life and the keys locked within the language of the New Testament and Isaiah intrigue me very much. I was feeling impatient to receive Book 3, and was asking "what now"? The answer I got was to go back to the Bible and take it in anew. That is what I'm doing. But before I do, I must go out and Reiki my backyard. Peace, alice Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/287 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Terra/Book/Bus LeLona wrote: "all around Terra can communicate and grow together like this. I am grateful :) I have ordered The Immortal via Amazon." "Ok, so where's Terra?" Terra is the home of Amazon and a place on and around which many Immortals like to dwell too. Yes, it is our Home, the good ole Earth who so kindly has offered us something we can ground ourselves with to find the balance between 'mundane' and spiritual :) To answer your question, it is just as close to you as it is to me :) That's the human point of view. From a larger perspective, it is on the orbit around the sun, which along with its planetary children is cycling... Ok Samu, enuff. Heheheeee :D "You should have ordered from JJ. Freight is included :) I ordered my first book from Amazon, and your freight will probably be more than mine, but then I ordered 5 more books from JJ. Freight is included in his price. But he'd probably have to add something for freight to other countries. Saved me about, oh, I'd say $10 to $15 just in freight." The only reason I ordered from Amazon was that they had several other books I wanted to get too. Otherwise I would have gone straight to the source, of course :) "Keep posting, Samu. I love the delight I find in your posts. I'll fight you for a seat on the top deck of that double-decker. 'Course, over here, we don't have them kind, so you'll have to give up your double deck seat to us over here. :)" Hey now! Not fair :) Actually we don't have double-deckers here in Finland either, it's them Brits who prefer 'em with twin parallel floors... :) I just reread the riddle and basically what the bus does is is a cycle, during which it offers a possibility for someone to step inside and journey onward to reach the chosen destination, and during the 2 points you get to see quite a lot of where you travel plus meet fellow travelers. Hmmmm, maybe even your destination changes while you travel, maybe because of exchange with other people on the collective vehicle. When the bus has finished its tour, it does the same again. Same route, yet different experience. Mmmmm, and in the riddle there was 6 people in the beginning, after the cycle there were 5 more, if I did my math right. Ah but we were not to pay attention to the number of people... :) Ok. Well, I had many more thoughts about the bus but I sorta had to reset my brain and get back to basics :) One more thing that I just thought of: basically the bus offers people the means to fulfill their choice of getting somewhere, and even if different people have different destinations, they all travel together. How's that? :) I don't know if I'm just distracting y'all from what we are seeking, because I don't know how important it is to have read the whole book, I would assume it is. Sorry if I'm just rambling. I just love to muse :) Much love to All, Samu Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/288 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Samu/Terra/Book/Bus Dear Samu-muse. Dear Samuse. (hee hee) JJ said it's in both books, I and II. He also said "what we are looking for is a very important principle that has not been revealed fully in any other book....." "that was taught in both books...." "may be more important than the first key" "a hint in the form of a riddle ... How many stops did the bus make?" (we know it made 7 stops, and in another post JJ said to ....the bus....(can't remember to quote, but you all remember). He also said "step back to look at it" and something about something in our mind may have to change....." Anyway, all these clues I'm looking at as a whole. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/289 From: "d.linen" Subject: Re: Bells, bowls, etc Yes Belle, I have some quartz singing bowls. I LOVE their sound. I had some friends over one evening and her husband was totally entranced with the bowls. He kept playing them and didn't want to stop. They really resonate with your inner self. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/290 From: J J Dewey Subject: Urantia Revisited We have had an interesting discussion about the Urantia Book and the desire to keep on track with our discussions of The Immortal. I think I should say a few words on this because this situation is likely to come up periodically not only from Urantia Readers, but also Course In Miracle readers, Scientologists, Ekankar people, born again Bible believers and so on. There are many people who are so enamored by a certain train of thought that they always feel they must be a missionary for that cause. We have three options here. (1) Let the person distract us from our true purpose. (2) Ignore the postings or as politely as possible tell the person to cool it. But then there is a third alternative (3) Incorporate this into a teaching/learning experience by examining the truth or falsehood in the teachings, but discourage others from posting large amounts of data that have little to do with the list. I would suggest that we experiment with number three. Then if it proves beneficial or at least entertaining then we continue. If it proves a distraction and the majority are against it then we can always change. The road to perfection is paved with many experiments and mistakes. I will personally participate with these challenges that come forward as time permits. Before I comment let me say this. The Brotherhood of Light does not have in their agenda to tell us what to think about the hundreds of channeled or inspired books out there. For one thing even the "true" books that are completely made up may still encourage the search for truth and we never want to discourage that search by some proclamation of "what is" by some outward authority, God, the brotherhood or whatever. Therefore, any comments I make on the teachings of other groups will with rare exceptions come from myself and my own soul contact. My comments could be completely wrong. The only way to know for sure is to check with your own souls. Back to Urantia. Here are several things that bother me about it. I would be interesting in hearing comments from a Urantia Reader. (1) When you ask advocates where the book came from they are very vague and give a very incomplete answer. When I was first introduced to Urantia I was told that the whole manuscript just appeared in completed form out of nowhere. Later others told me a few more details, but all very sketchy. The truth is that a good portion of Urantia was channeled by mediums in the conscious state and other parts of it were papers written by normal mortal humans. My question is why do the Urantia people hide the fact that most of the book is channeled material? (2) One major difference between Urantia and the Aquarian Gospel and other metaphysical books is that the Aquarian Gospel teaches reincarnation where Urantia teaches that we have only one life on this earth. The thing that amazes me about Urantia readers is that many of them believe in reincarnation yet continue to believe the Urantia Book is 100% true. This is not possible. If reincarnation is true then the Urantia book is completely wrong. This is an important point because its teaching on the afterlife is a core belief. (3) Urantia teaches similar to the 7th Day Adventists that the soul sleeps at death - that there is no spirit world for our astral or mental bodies to go to. It also teaches that if we are naughty then we will suffer complete annihilation. Only the good guys wake up to eternal life. What happened to the love of God that reaches out even to us rebels "WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Tim 2:4? This teaching in the Bible and other inspired works presents a much more logical God to me. (4) There are a number of definite errors in the book. For instance Urantia tells us that there cannot exist any element with over 100 electrons. Science has now discovered 111. Some over 100 may be short-lived but so are some under 100. (5) The Urantia book teaches a tremendous amount of data. Data that cannot be proven is easy to fabricate. The Brotherhood of light, however, almost always reveal principles in their teachings. In all the 2000+ pages of Urantia I cannot find one new principle revealed or even an old one that is elaborated on. I would challenge Urantia readers to show me one principle taught in the book. Data is easy to materialize, but it takes the light of the soul to reveal a principle. The Keys of knowledge, for instance, are centered around revealing principles. Key one: You exist on a principle, not a piece of data. Key Two: The Middle way is found by understanding a principle. Data is not enough. (6) My greatest objection to Urantia is that I felt no soul contact while reading it and I felt no flashing forth of the intuitive self from the general data. There is a lot of fancy language to razzle- dazzle the personality, but that is not enough for a true seeker. On the positive side I will say this. There are some truths to be found in the book but one has to use a lot of mental discernment, soul contact and have a scientific background to find it. Urantia is also a good starting point in the search for truth for one who has just broken off from a standard restrictive religious belief. It gives them a lot to think about. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/291 From: J J Dewey Subject: Another Hint I thought Samu was going to get the answer when he said: "First thing to cross my mind is quite simple. Pay attention to what's going on, not where things *might* be leading." But the mysterious teaching has not yet been found. Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/292 From: Cuiston Subject: Re: Urantia Revisited JJ Dewey writes: "(6) My greatest objection to Urantia is that I felt no soul contact while reading it and I felt no flashing forth of the intuitive self from the general data. There is a lot of fancy language to razzle-dazzle the personality, but that is not enough for a true seeker." Hi All...am new to this list and have been an observer...however, the above comment most accurately stated my response to the book "Urantia"...attempted to read it many years ago and had no 'connection'. While there is much to challenge the intellect, the deepest self of whom I am always becoming was not drawn to this material. Just got in on the tail end of the 'bus and its passengers'...is it that it made no stops but rather 'contained' the necessary 'passengers' at its origin? Look forward to the discussions on this particular and most anxiously the announcement that Books III and IV are available. Blessings to all Linda Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/293 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Another Hint Pay attention to the here and now. Diane J J Dewey wrote: "I thought Samu was going to get the answer when he said: "First thing to cross my mind is quite simple. Pay attention to what's going on, not where things *might* be leading. But the mysterious teaching has not yet been found." Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/294 From: LeLona Hodges Subject: Re: Another Hint Diane Linen writes: "First thing to cross my mind is quite simple" I think it's got more to do with the above. LeLona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/295 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Another Hint You are probably right LeLona. I have had a saying for some time now: I can't do anything about "what ifs." I can only do something about "what is." Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-13/296 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Re: Another Hint JJ wrote: "I thought Samu was going to get the answer when he said: "First thing to cross my mind is quite simple. Pay attention to what's going on, not where things *might* be leading." "But the mysterious teaching has not yet been found." I feel it has more to do with how something functions and not what kind of particles are moving within this flow. The pattern itself, not a description of it. Gravity, not an apple falling down from a tree. Being conscious of a thought and understanding its whole meaning without seeing the interval results.... Argh, I can't find the right words to describe the idea in my head right now, it's much too late here :) I really have to get some sleep now. If I'm able to, that is :D Samu Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/297 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Another Hint Life is a journey. Live it. Experience it. Diane Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/298 From: Rick Audette Subject: The answer to the question I just found the answer to the question. When I found it, I got so excited I was bouncing around my apartment singing in a squeaky voice, "I know the answer to the question, I know the answer to the question." And, I knew I had read it dozens of times, throughout the book. Looking back, I see that JJ gave even more clues than we thought. He even gave the location, in the book, where you could find the answer. I got such a kick out of finding the answer, I don't want to give it away. That way everyone else will get to dance and sing when they find it. I will offer some help by way of saying that certain words or phrases are hints within hints. Go back and look at these again; "questions" "How many stops..." "...a question at the end." My answer to the riddle is, That's right. Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/299 From: Futr2000 Subject: Dilemma?? LAST POST Re: Urantia Revisited Hello JJ: You have placed me in a dilemma. Allow me say that is is my LAST POST on the UBook matter on this list. I acquiesce to the desires of the listmembers and will disappear. I feel like I have just crashed someone's wedding when all the time I was looking for the address to a wedding for a completely different couple -- that is -- persons who wanted to discuss The Keys of Enoch - The Book of Knowledge and NOT The Keys of Knowledge. Other listmembers have asked me NOT to respond on the topic of the Urantia Book. While you have asked specific questions about the Urantia Book on the list and await a response. That is my dilemma.... if I answer -- I will upset those persons wishing to strictly read and discuss The Keys of Knowledge ONLY -and- if I do NOT answer then I will seem to agree with some of your pre-answered questions -- which I don't. I got sidetracked into discussing the Ubook -- which I use as a reference work in terms of spiritual identities -- like referring to a telephone directory for information -- by someone wanting a more elaborate definition of the Ancients of Days. I took it for granted that that person would be interested in the definition as a starting point for discussion. I was wrong and apologize to anyone who feels I have taken up their list space. Again, this is my LAST POST on the UBook. To close the circle.... JJ Dewey writes: "But then there is a third alternative" "(3) Incorporate this into a teaching/learning experience by examining the truth or falsehood in the teachings, but discourage others from posting large amounts of data that have little to do with the list." "I would suggest that we experiment with number three. Then if it proves beneficial or at least entertaining then we continue. If it proves a distraction and the majority are against it then we can always change. The road to perfection is paved with many experiments and mistakes." Since you chose door Number 3, then I will walk through it with you ;) (snip) Back to Urantia. "Here are several things that bother me about it. I would be interesting in hearing comments from a Urantia Reader." I will try my best to answer your questions. JJ writes: "(1) When you ask advocates where the book came from they are very vague and give a very incomplete answer. When I was first introduced to Urantia I was told that the whole manuscript just appeared in completed form out of nowhere. Later others told me a few more details, but all very sketchy." "The truth is that a good portion of Urantia was channeled by mediums in the conscious state and other parts of it were papers written by normal mortal humans. My question is why do the Urantia people hide the fact that most of the book is channeled material?" The answer is not *hidden* -- just that many readers have their own opinion on the origins and agreement is not rampant. UBook readers are definitely NOT of a single mind:) The best that I have been able to put together is that the Papers appeared in a locked safe on a regular basis. As each paper was transcribed with pen on paper and then by type on typewriter it was returned back to the safe and locked. Then that paper vanished and was replaced by an additional and different paper in the safe. Each paper as it appeared was discussed by a group of persons (called a Forum) gathered at the request of the unseen authors. Any parts that were not clear were given further attention and detail. So yes, humans did have some *input* by giving their opinion on matters of clarity and understanding. But NO humans did NOT WRITE the papers. Very specific instructions on dissemination of the papers -- that is - publishing and promoting the papers were given to the group. In short, word of mouth was the only acceptable way that the papers should be promoted - a one on one approach. Advertising, illustration, prosetlyzing and the like were discouraged, almost forbidden. IMHO I conjecture that there may be more papers which have yet to be published.... Such is MY personal speculation on the matter. I base that opinion on the holes that I perceive to be in the published text of 1955. For more varied viewpoints, I would suggest http://www.ubfellowship.org/index_about.htm http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/history/goodman.htm http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/doc183.htm Then you can judge the disagreements for yourself. JJ writes: "(2) One major difference between Urantia and the Aquarian Gospel and other metaphysical books is that the Aquarian Gospel teaches reincarnation where Urantia teaches that we have only one life on this earth. The thing that amazes me about Urantia readers is that many of them believe in reincarnation yet continue to believe the Urantia Book is 100% true. This is not possible. If reincarnation is true then the Urantia book is completely wrong. This is an important point because its teaching on the afterlife is a core belief." I understand the term *reincarnation* as used in the Aquarian Gospel. In the Urantia Book the term * reincarnation* does not use a return-to-this- planet-for humans proposition. Rather the *afterlife* for humans - ascending personalities - takes place on other planets - the many mansion worlds of the gospel. Those beings who CAN reincarnate on other planets are descending sons and daughters of God - for example Adam and Eve, Jesus Christ, many of Satan's associates, etc. Hence, the agreement on reincarnation, but the disagreement on just WHO is capable of this pathway. JJ writes: "(3) Urantia teaches similar to the 7th Day Adventists that the soul sleeps at death - that there is no spirit world for our astral or mental bodies to go to. It also teaches that if we are naughty then we will suffer complete annihilation. Only the good guys wake up to eternal life. What happened to the love of God that reaches out even to us rebels "WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Tim 2:4?" I don't know the teachings of the 7th Day Adventists. Actually the UBook coins a new term for *astral or mental* bodies -- a morontia body. Hence, the *worlds* are called Morontia spheres or planets. When human physical/mental life functions cease on Earth/Urantia, in 3 days (the transition/travel time to the first Mansion world) each individual receives a new Morontia (astral) body in place of the old physical one. The Morontia (mansion) worlds are the transition spheres for ALL humans. In short, it takes 7 transition step-worlds to receive a *spirit* body OR totally non-physical presence. You do NOT automatically receive a *spirit body* when you cease physical existence on Earth/Urantia. Everyone *wakes up* to eternal life on the morontia spheres in a morontia body -- only the time of learning on each sphere varies for each individual. Advanced personalities (masters) can pass through the training schools a lot quicker, but they still do the drill:) As far as complete annihilation - that is a conscious free will choice available to every individual at any time in their many steps to finaliter status - think millennia here, not just instant *afterlife* - a very, very, very long time. JJ writes: "(4) There are a number of definite errors in the book. For instance Urantia tells us that there cannot exist any element with over 100 electrons. Science has now discovered 111. Some over 100 may be short-lived but so are some under 100." I think the paragraphs you are referring to are as follows (my comments in parenthesis): Paper 42 Section 7 The local universes are of decimal construction. There are just one hundred distinguishable atomic materializations of space-energy in a dual universe; that is the maximum possible organization of matter in Nebadon (the name of our Local Universe). These one hundred forms of matter consist of a regular series in which from one to one hundred electrons revolve around a central and relatively compact nucleus. It is this orderly and dependable association of various energies that constitutes matter. Not every world will show one hundred recognizable elements at the surface, but they are somewhere present, have been present, or are in process of evolution. Conditions surrounding the origin and subsequent evolution of a planet determine how many of the one hundred atomic types will be observable. The heavier atoms are not found on the surface of many worlds. Even on Urantia the known heavier elements manifest a tendency to fly to pieces, as is illustrated by radium behavior. -end UBook quote- From The New York Public Library Desk Reference page 243 Though not inlcuded as a division of the Periodic Table the transuranic chemical elements are the elements that have been artificially created in the laboratory. They represent elements 93 to 109, listed after the last *stable* element, uranium (number 92). When scientists discover a new transuranic element, they have the right to select a name and symbol for it to be used on the Periodic Table. The name chosen is usually the last name of the person who discovered the element or the name of the place where it was found. New elements are created in particle accelerators in which lighter elements have been made to collide. For example meitnerium (Mt: named for Lise Meitner) element 109, was made by colliding bismuth-209 with iron-58 to form nuclei with an atomic number of 109. Often these heavy elements last for just a fraction of a second. Element 106 has a half-life of just 0.9 second and is formed a very few atoms at a time. -end NYPL DR quote- UBook Paper 42 continues Stability of the atom depends on the number of electrically inactive neutrons in the central body. Chemical behavior is wholly dependent on the activity of the freely revolving electrons. In Orvonton (the name given our SuperUniverse) it has never been possible naturally to assemble over one hundred orbital electrons in one atomic system. When one hundred and one have been artificially introduced into the orbital field, the result has always been the well-nigh instantaneous disruption of the central proton with the wild dispersion of the electrons and other liberated energies. -end UBook quote- My comments: The last stable element of the Periodic Table is number 92 -- Uranium which has 92 electrons -- or 8 less than the 100 electron limit above. The *artificial* elements -- or those created in the lab - - result in release of energies -- hence, their ultrashort half-life. I see no discrepency between these current viewpoints in chemistry and the UBook. JJ writes: "5) The Urantia book teaches a tremendous amount of data." Agreed. Snowfalls of data and plethoras of personalities. JJ continues: "Data that cannot be proven is easy to fabricate. The Brotherhood of light, however, almost always reveal principles in their teachings." The Brotherhood of light is a term new to me. I am familiar with the Great White Brotherhood in the Keys of Enoch. If this is a formal conclave, I would enjoy to see their writings and principles. JJ continues: "In all the 2000+ pages of Urantia I cannot find one new principle revealed or even an old one that is elaborated on. I would challenge Urantia readers to show me one principle taught in the book. Data is easy to materialize, but it takes the light of the soul to reveal a principle." We are in complete agreement on this point -- that is - the light of the soul The principles you may be seeking are called morontia mota. I have only listed the first 7 of 28. A complete list is available at http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper48.htm Paper 48 Section 7 7. MORONTIA MOTA The lower planes of morontia mota join directly with the higher levels of human philosophy. On the first mansion world it is the practice to teach the less advanced students by the parallel technique; that is, in one column are presented the more simple concepts of mota meanings, and in the opposite column citation is made of analogous statements of mortal philosophy. 1. A display of specialized skill does not signify possession of spiritual capacity. Cleverness is not a substitute for true character. 2. Few persons live up to the faith which they really have. Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul. 3. Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded; a pint can never hold a quart. The spirit concept cannot be mechanically forced into the material memory mold. 4. Few mortals ever dare to draw anything like the sum of personality credits established by the combined ministries of nature and grace. The majority of impoverished souls are truly rich, but they refuse to believe it. 5. Difficulties may challenge mediocrity and defeat the fearful, but they only stimulate the true children of the Most Highs. 6. To enjoy privilege without abuse, to have liberty without license, to possess power and steadfastly refuse to use it for self-aggrandizement--these are the marks of high civilization. 7. Blind and unforeseen accidents do not occur in the cosmos. Neither do the celestial beings assist the lower being who refuses to act upon his light of truth. -end UBook quote- JJ writes: "The Keys of knowledge, for instance, are centered around revealing principles. Key one: You exist on a principle, not a piece of data. Key Two: The Middle way is found by understanding a principle. Data is not enough. (6) My greatest objection to Urantia is that I felt no soul contact while reading it and I felt no flashing forth of the intuitive self from the general data. There is a lot of fancy language to razzle- dazzle the personality, but that is not enough for a true seeker." For some persons truth is a slow, methodical journey. For others it is a whirlwind. JJ writes: "On the positive side I will say this. There are some truths to be found in the book but one has to use a lot of mental discernment, soul contact and have a scientific background to find it." And the patience of a saint! Not a big seller to the MTV generation. JJ writes: "Urantia is also a good starting point in the search for truth for one who has just broken off from a standard restrictive religious belief. It gives them a lot to think about" Disagree. The UBook should not be tackled lightly and on the rebound. It cannot be given to anyone. Only those who ASK for it will find it useful. Unfortunately I have made the mistake of introducing the UBook to persons wholly unprepared for it spiritually and have paid the price impatience brings. Hope this helps And I will now disappear into the mists of the Internet, Polara Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/300 From: Diane Linen Subject: Re: Dilemma?? LAST POST Re: Urantia Revisited Polara, Now I feel badly about this. JJ offered a wonderful choice and we can all learn some more from this if you don't leave. Diane Futura2000 wrote: " I took it for granted that that person would be interested in the definition as a starting point for discussion. I was wrong and apologize to anyone who feels I have taken up their listspace. Again, this is my LAST POST on the UBook." Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/301 From: Isabelle Subject: Re: Dilemma?? LAST POST Re: Urantia Revisited Polara, Now I feel badly about this. JJ offered a wonderful choice and we can all learn some more from this if you don't leave. Diane Futr2000 wrote: "I took it for granted that that person would be interested in the definition as a starting point for discussion. I was wrong and apologize to anyone who feels I have taken up their list space. Again, this is my LAST POST on the UBook." Polara, Just before JJ made this suggestion I was feeling that there must have been a reason for you "accidentally" joining this list.. I, for one, liked JJ's idea of how we could all turn this into something which could benefit everyone.. I understand why you were feeling that you should disappear, but hope you will reconsider.. your last post in response to JJ's questions was very informative.. Thanks for the time and effort you put into it.. Have you read any of The Immortal yet?? Do you have the URL for downloading the first book?? http://www.freeread.com/ Belle Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-3/302 From: "James Bryan" Subject: Re: The answer to the question How about an Irish jig. Thanks for just the hint Rick. I was wanting to read the answer from your post at first and was disappointed when all I saw was hints. Until I stared thinking about your hints and reread the original question. Then things started popping and I started hoping. I typed out a lengthy post that described the answer and as I got close to the end, well you know what happens. I did think of 2 hints that might help. Rick wrote; "I will offer some help by way of saying that certain words or phrases are hints within hints. Go back and look at these again; "questions" "How many stops..." "...a question at the end." "My answer to the riddle is," "That's right." "Rick" What do most passengers on a bus do? Who books the bus? Light, Love and Power All for One and One for All! TwinStorms AKA James Bryan Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/303 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Dilemma?? LAST POST Re: Urantia Revisited For the record, I found the subject worth reading when it was explained by M.J.M. (a.k.a. Polara) instead of being all quotes from the book. I can see that JJ's 3rd way of handling the matter has great potential (and leads to the middle path). It also takes the pressure off me. I've felt from the beginning that I didn't want to find myself in the Sgt. at Arm role. I have always fell naturally into leader positions. It is my decision to avoid what comes natural and come sit in the audience for a while and experience the "pain and gain" of a student. I am sorry to see Polara go, on the one hand, but also suspected, from the beginning, that he did not come in with the intention of being a student. Live and learn, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-12/304 From: Rick Audette Subject: Re: Dilemma?? LAST POST Re: Urantia Revisited Polara, I hope you will NOT leave us. Sincerely, Rick Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-13/305 From: Garrett Ward Subject: Re: Another Hint Ok, I'm pitching my 2 pennies into the virtual offering plate. A bus is a vehicle. The physical bodies we have are a vehicle for the "real" us (see Book I, page 80-bottom). Is our soul the driver of the bus? What about multiple passengers. Is it possible that our soul has more than one vehicle (physical body) on Earth at the same time in different locations (maybe other planets?). Or...(help me out here folks) could the passengers be the astral body, the mental body, etc? Since I have not entered any background information, I have been a jack-of-all-trades for the past 30 years or so, with 18 of those years spent as a truck driver and dispatcher. Hey Mindy, I really liked your story about the "Hawaiian good luck sign". I always thought folks were letting me know I was still 1. Garrett - currently residing in beautiful Flagstaff, Arizona Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-13/306 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: The answer to the question Morning everybody, just got up :) Had a dream, don't remember much of it but here's what I wrote down in my dream diary: Had a flash-like dream regarding the teaching we are trying to grasp on The Keys of Knowledge list. First there was a dot of light in space. Then it expands in every direction in an explosion-like manner as a ball of fire. Perhaps I was seeing Rick in his excitement as he was ecstatically signing and bouncing across his apartment? :D Rick wrote: "questions" "How many stops..." "...a question at the end." My answer to the riddle is, That's right. The full sentence JJ wrote was: "Now pay careful attention to the wording in the riddle because you have to **answer** a **question** at the end." Well, now I see it more as cycles layed on top of each other forming something that looks like a spiral rather than being a round. The answer is a question that embodies the seed of the new question. And so the story goes, *and* continues :) Or you could say, there's a question within the question which is the answer and a new question. Heheee, I am feeling very ticklish again :D The relationship between question and answer is similar to that of Yin and Yang, being two sides of the same thing. Then they switch polarities around and the chain continues. Sort of like a teacher student relationship. I guess you could say, the most important new teaching is the one that comes and gets revealed after the previous one is fully understood. Pay attention to what's going on, not where things might be leading. The bus finished its tour and didn't get distracted or alter its course due to its stops. It stopped for awhile to exchange content, then it continued on its route. It all matters, not just parts of it, it is obvious. But the subsets make a beautiful whole. Anybody catch my drift? And is it anywhere close to the midstream of the flow? :D Ok, I think I may have found simpler more precise way to put it. The most important new teaching of the book was the one that it revealed to me. More later, sending y'all en-light-ening dreams and much love, Samu :) Post No. keys-l: /1998-11-13/307 From: Samu Karlsson Subject: Flagstaff "Garrett - currently residing in beautiful Flagstaff, Arizona" Hi Garret, I know this is off-topic but I just had to reply to this :) This summer when I was in the States and spent a week in Sedona, we drove thru Flagstaff many times, and I looooved the place :) We had lunch at Coco's, excellent food, in my humble opinion. And there was something totally mesmerizing about San Francisco Peaks. I wanted to climb up there really bad :) The Peaks looked incredible when we were driving back from Grand Canyon in the evening as it was being mounted with radiant pink/red/purple clouds under the light of the sunset. Y