2000-1-31 07:48:00
Sterling, I do not have time to respond thoroughly to your post, even if I dedicated all my free time to you. Others are growing weary of this type of interchange, and I must move ahead with the teachings. That said, I will give you a limited response.
You criticize me for not expressing the Mormon belief accurately. I may not represent the offshoots of Mormonism accurately, but I think I gave a good overview of general Mormon belief. Craig, an ex-Mormon, seems to agree.
My mentioning a need for a list of scripture believers, who are searching but are turned off by the New Age, was not intended to be an insult or suggest the amount of light any have. I just saw this as a need that exists out there, and filling that need could be a good thing, especially if the learning of the members is increased.
You say that God is Omni-present, yet still seem to think that he is confined to his physical body. It is true that "spirit and element inseparably connected produce fullness of joy." On the other hand, we are told that celestial beings can choose "life or death." (D&C 76:59)
Mormonism teaches that Adam was a celestial being who came from another world and died here, separating from his physical body. Obviously "inseparably connected" means that no one can separate you from your body except your own power of decision. If God has "all power" then it stands to reason he can separate from the physical if He so desires.
Actually, except for rare incarnations, the higher lives are inseparably connected with their bodies. In addition, their physical bodies are rolled up in the spiritual and they are unfolded (for want of a better phrase) when they manifest in the lower worlds with a visitation.
For instance, when Jesus appeared to the disciples he walked through the walls of the building. Now when Jesus was in the wall was he in an actual physical body? No, of course not. If he was, he would have gotten stuck in the wall. He went in and out of the physical as he traveled, yet even when he was out of the physical, he was still inseparably connected to it.
Entities who have never had physical bodies cannot manifest in them. Entities who have had them, and have mastered the physical, can manifest at will but are not confined to them. Alice A. Bailey and Blavatsky both were visited by Masters who materialized in physical bodies and thus meet the criteria for Joseph Smith's teaching on resurrected beings.
You give reference to the following scripture to explain the omnipresence of God:
D&C 88:6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; D&C 88:7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made. D&C 88:8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; D&C 88:9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; D&C 88:10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. D&C 88:11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings; D&C 88:12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space?
Now you say you believe in a hierarchy of Gods as was taught by Joseph Smith. Which God fills the immensity of space? Is it the God of this earth, some higher up God, or the One Universal God of which we are all part as I talked about?
Mormonism teaches that there are billions of Gods; which one is in the stars and the power thereof by which they were made? Which God said this? "And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten." (Moses 1:33)
Concerning this God who created "worlds without number" was it the one who is appointed the God of this earth that Joseph talked about or was it the universal God speaking through a Master here as I have taught and you reject? Or perhaps it was some other God. If our God created all the worlds what are the other Gods doing?
By the way, why are you so against calling Christ and God Masters when Jesus is called Master periodically in the Bible?
You say: "These are they who refuse the grace of Christ and who seek to enthrone Satan as the Supreme Being, who functions by appeals to a person's pride, rather than humility as God does. Pride blinds a person to truth, whereas humility enables him to see it clearly."
JJ: I think most of the people on this list are great examples of humility. On the other hand, on your web site you openly proclaim yourself to be God, not just a cell in the body as most of us humbly believe. Who are the ones here that should be concerned about pride blinding us to the truth? So it's all right for you to say "I am God," but it's not all right for us???
You misunderstand about my teaching about us being Gods because of oneness. This has nothing to do with evolution. It has to do with our essence which is one with God and therefore God. Any entity who is one with God is God, just as your mouth is one with you and says: "I am Sterling." It is a part who is one with the whole life.
Again let me quote Joseph: "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. I know my testimony is true." The church put in parenthesis the word "co-eternal" because they thought he was quoted incorrectly, but this was an attempt to alter the meaning of his words. He said that intelligence (which was from the beginning) was "co-equal with God himself" and that is what he meant.
Again I quote the Master as saying: "Ye are Gods." Obviously he was not talking about man becoming Gods or Masters or he would have said "ye are becoming Gods." You have danced around this scripture and do not seem to accept it the way it reads. If he told the truth we "ARE Gods."
On the other hand God told Moses that he is becoming that which he decides to become. Thus if we are also Gods we do the same thing. One important decision for us all to make is to Become like the Masters (who are one with God) did before us. Of this Christ is the great example.
You state: "If J.J. were indeed a true messenger commissioned by God, then I suppose I would be guilty of being 'an accuser of the brethren.' But I believe I have presented substantial reason that this is not the case."
The scriptures tell us that we are "all brethren." (Alma 23:3). It sounds like you have written me off as a brother so it is all right to have an attitude of the accuser.
I believe most members of this list still see you as a brother even if you may condemn us to hell. When you first came here you were a gentleman and seemed to be sincerely seeking and asking questions, but now your attitude has shifted to accusing words and phrases. Perhaps you should examine this attitude within yourself, and sincerely ask if the Spirit of God would approve.
Like attracts like and now that you have turned negative on us, you have aligned yourself with writers like John Ankerburg, Dave Hunt (on that anti-New Age web page you linked me to) and others, who not only accuse the New Age people of being evil, but also accuse the Mormons of being evil.
Ankerburg, Hunt and others quoted, believe Mormon teachings on God are part of Satan's Great lie and that Joseph Smith was one of the greatest deceivers of all time. They strongly oppose everything that Joseph Smith stood for and actively work for the destruction of the best of Mormon teachings. Dave Hunt was one of the promoters of the anti-Mormon film "The Godmakers" which was full of half truths. Are these types of people your new-found friends? If they distort Mormonism, will they not also distort the new age people? What kind of fruit are you gravitating toward here?
This page is at: http://members.ratedg.com/hagvahkoma/
I am concerned Sterling that you think I am in league with the devil. I have looked forward to your brotherhood and friendship since the beginning and still hope for it. As one of the members suggested, we should look at you in return and see the face of Christ, and this I do my brother. If you could see the Christ in us in return, I think that you would see the good that resides here.
Let me again quote the criteria for deciding which side a disciple is on:
"But he that believeth these things which I have spoken, him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record. For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good. "And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me." (Ether 4:11)
Is there anything in any of my teachings that does anything other than attempting to persuade men and women to do good? If there is good in my teachings (and others of this list) then the scripture says that this "good cometh of none save it be of me."
I believe that the good thing you have done, that has helped others on their path, was inspired by the Spirit of God within you. Will you not extend me the same courtesy?
Copyright 2000 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved