2010-2-25 04:04:00
JJ:
This is a continuation of yesterday's post covering comments on the ten missionaries imprisoned in Haiti. It is getting a lot of attention in Idaho as well as the nation. I was aghast at how condemning and unforgiving the posters are here. I felt there was a need to stand up for fairness.
JJ:
Let's get this straight. Their crime was not kidnapping. Each child was either homeless or had parents that gave permission. Their crime was to cross the border without the correct paperwork -- which may have been impossible to obtain due to the devastation.
You'd think that Haiti would take Silsby up on her offer. Having ten extra people there to assist with the recovery would be a win win solution to the problem.
Unfortunately the critics here are more into "lose-lose." They want a pound of flesh.
"BritBaby":
"Not kidnapping? You were there were you? Are you watching the REAL news. They never tried to get permission or proper documentation. They admitted that in court. Next time San Francisco has a major quake, I guess you will be in line helping to kidnap young American children."
JJ:
The news traced down all the parents they could find and interviewed them and they said they gave permission because they could not feed the kids and they were starving. That's not kidnapping. That's saving lives. Why are you so eager to condemn?
"Zekenaja":
"Silsby was a shyster using naive religious persons. I hope she gets life and the naive religious learns a lesson and awhile in jail. All kinds of reliefs efforts were going on inside Haiti. They could have joined those efforts."
JJ:
You hope she gets life? Unbelievable. Then proportionally you should get five years in prison for your next traffic ticket.
"Zekenaja":
"You are comparing a traffic ticket to kidnapping children? Unbelieveable. This woman has been a con artist for years. I feel badly for the naive who were duped by her and yes she should get life."
JJ:
Did you read my post? First there was no kidnapping and secondly five years is NOT the the same as life. If you give life for not having paperwork then proportionally a traffic ticket would warrant five years. Do you understand what "proportionally" means? Duh...
"EXMO":
"If Ms. Silsby had gotten 5 years for each of her traffic citations, the rest of them wouldn't be in this mess, now would they?"
JJ:
And if each hard line no mercy law and order type here got five years for each violation then maybe we'd have people with a little charity and good will in their hearts posting here.
"BSU_Broncos_Rock":
"And a drum roll please... they are charged with Kidnapping. Kidnapping trafficker of children. I will say it slowly for you, Criminals. Let them rot in a Haitian prison where they belong for this crime. I am sure they will meet plenty of new buddies they can convert. Poor little Kidnappers....ah so..."
JJ:
More drumroll please....
No one has yet been convicted of any crime. Please explain how it is kidnapping to be given a child through the free will of a parent to be taken to food and shelter.
What's that I hear?
Incoherent mumbling.
"EXMO":
"There isn't any excuse for what she did. 10 Years of hard labor for her in Haiti would probably be sufficient although I wouldn't allow her to be around children. Haiti may appear more appealing to her right now as life won't be easy in the USA when she returns."
JJ:
What have you got against community service and helping kids? Do you want the kids there to suffer needlessly? There's no reason to assume that any of these ten are a danger to kids. If they were ten atheists this bunch would probably be fine with community service or even a full pardon.
"Zekenaja":
"The Dominican Republican views Haitains as subhumans. This gal, a known exploiter, rents a beach hotel resort out in DR where adoptions only take 30 to 90 days and you can't follow the dots? There was NO orphanage. Even the DR is running from her now."
JJ:
She may be guilty as sin, but there's no evidence she's dangerous. It would be a lot more helpful to the impoverished people there to place the ten Christians into community service where they can do some good. Why would anyone in their right mind fight against helping that devastated people there?
"Boise49ers":
"So you compare human trafficking to a traffic ticket? Man she should of recruited you as well."
JJ:
NOT.
You need to read my post. I compared the punishments of two different crimes -- no one said they were similar crimes. You know like if we give 10 years for lying on a welfare application you would think such a society would proportionally give at least a year for a traffic ticket. Duh...
"Bars1964":
"Your 'god' may not have a lot to do with this one, but my 'GOD' will have the glory in this. I do believe that Silsby dupped the rest of them. GOD will prevail for his children."
JJ:
So you (and other accusers here) worship the Old Testament Jehovah then and reject the forgiving Jesus who said: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
"DCW":
"Charity and good will does not negate the fact they broke the law."
JJ:
No one said it does. And thank God the ten will be judged by a judge in a corrupt system rather than the bunch here -- and the bunch of finger pointers here is who I am talking about. I have never seen a group with such lack of empathy and compassion.
"Random_Ax_of_Kindness":
"I'd like to see anything happen to her to wipe that vacuous smile off her face."
JJ:
And how about that silly smile on your face from thinking of wiping the smile off her face plus her rotting in a Haiti prison?
"EXMO":
"Hey Joe, KIDNAPPING is taking children (1,10 or 33) ACROSS THE BORDER illegally. Illegally would be without the required PAPERWORK. Had they attempted to help the kids by placing them in a legal orphanage in Haiti, they wouldn't be in this mess. I don't see anyone confused here but you."
JJ:
So according to your definition if you steal someone else's kid without their permission and don't cross a border then you are not kidnapping. According to you, kidnapping is crossing a border with someone else's kid even with permission of the parents. Strange reasoning.
"Poobah":
"Let's get this straight. Their crime was child trafficking but they are fortunate enough to be charged with the lesser kidnapping. And, no, one cannot just take children away from parents -- they claim parental permission but have no documentation, this is kidnapping."
JJ:
There's documentation on the news. They interviewed a number of the parents and they stated they happily gave permission. How much better documentation can you get?
"Poobah":
"So, if I win the lottery will you support my plan to gather children from your church because I can better care for them with all of my money? Don't worry, I will train them in Voodoo."
JJ:
First, I'm not a member of a church and attend none.
Secondly, if my kids were starving and someone was able to care for them in a positive way, yes I would let others save their lives and then visit them and I could and retrieve them when I was in a better situation. Duh.
"Rjetti":
"Stealing and selling humans is a no, no... God can't help her now."
JJ:
So give me evidence they were selling humans.
"Badfader":
"Joseph. I have plenty of sympathy and compassion for those that get into bad situations through no fault of their own. These people KNEW they were breaking the law, and did it anyway. Sorry, no compassion for stupidity."
JJ:
So you would have disagreed with Jesus and threw the first stone at the woman because the sin was her own fault. Wow. I'm sure you also want to put the 20 million illegal aliens in jail because they knew the law and it was their own fault they broke it.
"Poobah":
"Written documentation, you know the kind that they use in the world today?"
JJ:
Video is much better proof than written -- we're talking about raw proof here not legaleeze. Especially in Haiti where many cannot even write. So if your wife enters the doorway in a sexy neglige you then insist she put her proposal in writing instead. Smart.
"Poobah":
"So, cross the border into Canada with a video tape for ID and see how it goes."
JJ:
We were talking about proof for readers here, not border crossing guards. Duh.
"StraightTalk":
"Joe, if you think videos are true depicting of an event, you have a lot to learn about technology."
JJ:
And if you think everything written down is true you have a lot to learn about human nature.
"Farva":
"I think the existing radical, right-wing churches weren't conservative enough for Joseph."
JJ:
And you're more conservative than me. You are the conservative law and order Old Testament justice mentality here, not me. So what does that make you? My church threw me out for thinking thoughts too liberal. I was ready to move on anyway.
"Poobah":
"The crime was crossing an International border with undocumented children. It matters not a whit what one believes himself but rather what documentation he has to show the border folks."
JJ:
For the second time the subject was proof for readers here. Not border crossing guards. Duh.
"Poobah":
"Straw man argument again, go figure."
JJ:
You need to get that straw hat out of your eyes and stop whittling with your knife and pay attention.
"WhatDidIMiss":
"Good grief. I live among idiots. You can't wish someone life in prison for ALL THE THINGS they've done. Yeah, let's write letters to the judge in Haiti and say, 'She didn't pay her bills and she used people. We urge you to consider this in your judgement against her.'"
JJ:
Finally, an oasis of reason and liberal tolerance.
"Poobah":
"I'd be interested to learn what church believes you, the man to whom everyone else is to the left, is too liberal and excommunicated you for this."
JJ:
I'd say that talking about my personal life is a little off topic. I'd could give a web site explaining things but the last time I did that I received about thirty complaints from the tolerant Left for promoting myself.
"Poobah":
"One cannot cross a border with 'Well, all of the readers of the Idaho Statesman believe me.' The subject is the kidnapping of children and the ensuing trial."
JJ:
For the third time the subject wasn't border crossing and had nothing to do with the law.. We were talking about the condemnation from the readers here, NOT border guards. Of course what we believe has no effect on the law. No one even hinted at such a thing. Focus.
"Poobah":
"Would you also agree that the Catholic Church should be given a walk on the pedophilia due to their charitable work?"
JJ:
I didn't say that the Catholic Church or any this group should be given a walk unless found innocent, but that their punishment should fit the crime, which is much less than pedophilia. They should not be judged guilty until proven in a just court. Some here are for life in prison without a trial which is ridiculous.
"Poobah":
"Nothing personal, just curious as to what church sees you as too liberal."
JJ:
Most of them.
"Poobah":
"Personally, I put child trafficking and pedophilia in the same camp - exploitation of children. The idea that you are willing to accept child trafficking as long as the perpetrator claims to be Christian is repulsive to most of us."
JJ:
Child trafficking is speculation on your part. I thought you didn't like straw projections. At least eight of them only wanted to help the children.
"Poobah":
"Try this scenario: Haiti, earthquake, catholic orphanage demolished. Voodoo priests take children without documentation to DR and put them on an education plan that includes teaching of Voodoo. This is essentially the same scenario. Is it okay with you as well?"
JJ:
If the parents know the religion is voodoo and believe the children will be well taken care of and give their permission -- yeah that would be okay, especially if it saves their lives. Would it be OKAY with you?
"Poobah":
"No, not without proper documentation -- and I don't mean some video shot by a media crew in which folks are shown saying that they are good to go without documentation. Again, International Law. This is to protect children from exploitation. To ignore the documentation aspect brings on a bad aroma."
JJ:
So, after an earthquake that kills 200,000 people and everything is in chaos you'd be more concerned about documentation than the lives of kids. Sweet.
"Poobah":
"What we see on this thread is not so much lack of compassion or empathy but a disdain for scam artists -- especially those who invoke the term 'God' and scam well-meaning folks."
JJ:
Then you should have a big problem with the healthcare scam where Mary Landreu and Ben Nelson were paid off with our tax money. Then there's the global warming records scam and plagiarizing magazine articles and college papers as a substitute for research.
"YesIndeededo":
"Joseph...are you married to this nut job (Silsby)? No...ummm...I do believe you are the nut job!"
JJ:
I've never met the lady. And I am a nut and you are not because? Is it because you are old time Old Testament revengeance law and order, eye for and eye type and I am fairly liberal in tolerance -- or is it something else?
"GrayMatter":
"One wonders why you are so defensive of this woman?"
JJ:
Even if it were you in this situation I would stand against just leaving to you unjust condemnation and to be judged worthy of up to life in prison before all the facts are in. It sounds like Silsby was a manipulator and had numerous faults, but she's still a human being and the rest may have been innocent victims. They didn't do anything that hurt the kids. Anything evil she had planned is just speculation. It is unfair to judge a person on what they may do, after all you might rob a bank tomorrow.
It is strange the Lefties here are acting like their version of the Old Testament God they often condemn.
"Farvar":
"Joseph, for someone who claims they could crush Obama in a debate, you seem to be getting your ass handed to you pretty regularly."
JJ:
And point to one time this has happened. You are counting quantity of the voices rather than quality.
"BSU_Broncos_Rock":
"No Joseph is not married to Laura Silsby, how silly of you. They dated and he asked, but she dumped him. Laura said even she has better standards than that."
JJ:
Actually, her standards are better than yours. I doubt if she would condemn you to rot in prison indefinitely in a third world country if they caught you smoking a joint.
"BSU_Broncos_Rock":
"There is no way Laura Silsby tried to steal Joseph's ideas. One has to have ideas before they can be stolen.
"Have you read Joseph's postings? It appears that the porch light is on, but no one is home. Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, but he just gargled."
JJ:
Unable to come up with a coherent argument this writer mindlessly lashes out from the bottom of the barrel.
"Poobah," quoting JJ wrote:
"'It is strange the Lefties here are acting like their version of the Old Testament God they often condemn.'
"Poobah" then writes:
"You really should try using other tactics. This continual lambasting of straw people gets old. Try addressing the issue rather than applying made up labels."
JJ:
Talking about the response of readers here to the subject is always open to discussion. If it is not then you should be criticizing half of the posts made on every forum on the internet.
"Poobah":
"While you have the dictionary out, look up 'projection' as used in psychology."
JJ:
Projection (official definition):
The attitude of mind belonging to a poster named "Poobah" where he visualizes himself actually making a logical argument.
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