2008-3-15 06:03:00
Dan quoting JJ:
"I didn't say he changed his name to sound more mysterious but as you correctly quoted I said 'I'm always a little suspicious about the lack of glamour behind someone who changes his name to sound more mysterious.'"
Dan:
"You're kidding right? The object of that sentence is Tolle, you say; 'I'm always a little suspicious about the lack of glamour behind someone who changes his name to sound more mysterious.' -- and now you are claiming that this sentence does not say what it says - 'that he changed his name to sound more mysterious'? I guess I probably don't have to state the obvious here."
JJ:
I attempted to plainly tell you what I meant by the sentence and I am the world's greatest expert on what I think. The word "someone" as I used it refers to anyone who does this which would include Tolle if he did do this. Did he? Probably, but I do not know for sure and have never claimed to know as you seem to accuse.
You are twisting my meaning here and will not accept a clarifying explanation.
This is not like you Dan? You've never treated me this way before.
Dan:
"So, are we supposed to infer from all the rest of this smoke then that you are claiming ignorance due to a failure to do your own due diligence prior to passing on unsubstantiated rumor and making libelous claims against another person?"
JJ:
That's a pretty mean spirited accusation toward me for reporting what I read on the Internet and you have no proof to the contrary.
Dan:
"That anyone's simple statement that a thing is true is good enough for us to accept as truth without verification -- in direct contradiction to your own numerous statements to the contrary?"
JJ:
I have NEVER said that we should not go with the best data available. We should always be open to the possibility data is wrong but one has to go with the best information available.
Do you really think that Tolle did not change his name? Why do you think he chose the name Eckhart?
Dan:
"Come on my friend, let's just end this stupid witch-hunt and table the discussion until you have the time to actually read his works with a clear head and in the light of the soul."
JJ:
This is uncharacteristically judgmental of you. My head is as clear as ever and I try not to advertise my soul contact.
Dan:
"There is already AMPLE evidence to indicate that you may have listened to these works with less than your full attention and objectivity.
"For instance:
"(1) Did you or did you not listen to the unabridged audio of Tolle's 'A New Earth' while your attention was at least partially engaged with other work?"
JJ:
Yes, but I am good at multi-tasking in this manner. I listened to a lot of it over again today and read quite a bit and can't find where I was so off base as you accuse.
Dan:
"(2) Did you or did you not think (erroneously or not) prior to listening to the full audio that Tolle had changed his name from Ulrich to Eckhart in order to gain authority by association with Meister Eckhart?"
JJ:
I checked it out around half way through. What difference does it make? I wasn't looking for a name change I just came across it when I "googled" his name.
Dan:
"(3) You yourself stated that you dislike Zen koans thinking them largely illusionary and potentially misleading, prior to listening to this audio -- in which the author uses a few -- is this not true?"
JJ:
Yes, I have found most of the stories are nonsensical, but a few are okay. And your point is?
Dan:
"(4) Your first post on this topic indicates that you fully expected to come to the conclusions that you actually ended up coming to -- prior to even listening to the full audio, is this not true?"
JJ:
About half way through the book I got a pretty good idea of where he was coming from. I think this is the case with about anyone who reads any book. Before I read it I did not know what to expect.
Dan:
"(5) Can you say for certain that in THIS case you have fully applied the Principles of Discovery objectively and without preconception, seeking to understand them in the light of the soul?"
JJ:
Yes. For one thing there was no new principles for me in the book and I had already applied the Principles of Discovery on the teachings. The conclusion is that many of the teachings are true and some have illusion in them.
Dan:
"Please my dearest friend, let us end this stupid witch-hunt and drop this discussion until you have the time to dedicate to reading this author's full works (I believe you have them available now) and seeking as a little child -- clearing yourself of any possible preconceptions, centering your mind in the light and at the very least reading this man's works with your full attention, but preferably after singing The Song and seeking to understand them in the light of the soul."
JJ:
My friend, I don't mean to hurt your feelings but I don't find his writings that interesting. I do not wish to spend a lot of time on them as I am already very familiar with the concepts he is teaching. I'll probably read "The Power of Now" soon and then move on.
I've commented on a lot of "sacred cows" before and you have been fully with me and seen clearly what I was getting at. What is the problem this time? Why is Tolle so important to you and why does the probability that he changed his name upset you so? Why is that such a big deal to you?
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