2008-3-13 13:55:00
Dan quoting JJ writes:
"Then there are several things where he is actually speaking around true principles but comes to an erroneous conclusion -- or perhaps one could say they could lead a student in an illusionary direction."
Dan:
"The second perhaps but anybody can be lead in an illusionary direction by anything if they do not pay attention and judge for themselves -- as you have taught. This should be more of an indictment of the student, not the teacher."
JJ:
Yes, if the teacher clearly gives the principle this is true, but if the student understands the teacher, and the teachings project illusion, it is not.
Dan:
"One could easily be mislead by your teachings as well, if they did not read closely or if they only skimmed the archives or if they have preconceptions. Many have been and will continue to be. Even long time students have misunderstood your teachings for various reasons."
JJ:
I'm not talking about misunderstanding the teacher, but taking what he says and seeing illusion if you take him at his word. An exception could be one who reads him through the soul.
Dan quoting JJ:
"Tolle reinforces this paralysis that many new age people have in their actions by emphasizing that 'the present is all there is.'"
Dan:
"I disagree, see quotes below."
[Editors Note: Due to the length/number of the quotes, they were not included in this article. However, they can be found in Dan's posts made to The Keys Spiritual Discussion Group.]
JJ:
Yes, of course every teacher in the universe will advocate action on some level. It is impossible to teach without directing students to some type of action and I never said Tolle did not advocate taking action. I said that he emphasized that the present is all there is and this was a correct statement. Without going into the value of seeing the past and the future and taking them into consideration in making judgements then the student is likely to ignore the wisdom to be gleaned from the past or the promise of the future.
His teachings on action are somewhat paradoxical like those in many Buddhist and Hindu writings. One of the effects of these teachings past is the lack of action and development taken by the nations dominated by these teachings.
Don't get me wrong, there is truth in these teachings, but their teachers place an incorrect emphasis on inaction and just going with the flow and this is one of the reasons why India has remained as a third world nation for so long.
As a prime example Tolle gives the story of a guru who was wrongly accused of impregnating a lady and he did nothing but yield to the accusations. Then he was told to raise the kid and he just accepted what others told him to do and raised him. Then he was told he had to give the kid up and he did so without consideration of the feelings of the kid. He just did what he was told to do. This story Tolle gave as example of what he sees as right action and right surrender. It also shows no judgement. The guy just did what he was told without using any of his god given power of judgement.
I thought this was a terrible example of how we are supposed to surrender judgement and acquiesce to what is going on around us.
Would this guru also have done what Hitler told him to do? You get the impression he may have.
Even though I see Tolle here as giving a misleading emphasis he was talking around a true principle of acceptance so if one reads this in the light of the soul while retaining his power of judgement he can still get some truth from it.
Tolle does speak of right action, as all teachers do, but this prime example gives us an idea of what he really admires as being right action which is not much different from the yielding of the Hale Bop followers to the instructions of their guru. How far would this guy in the story have to be pushed before he would use judgement and say "enough!?"
Dan quoting JJ:
"What seems to be missing from Tolle's teachings on the present, good and evil, duality, etc., is The Second Key of Judgement."
Dan:
"I disagree, see quotes below."
[Editors Note: Due to the length/number of the quotes, they were not included in this article. However, they can be found in Dan's posts made to The Keys Spiritual Discussion Group.]
JJ:
Yes, he teaches non judgement but then cannot say much without indicating that judgments must be made. This is true of all teachers who teach acquiescence. They cannot say much without contradicting themselves and then seem to be advocating judgement.
For instance we've had people come on the list condemning us for making judgements and then judging us as being unloving. No one can say much without judgement entering in.
The story he gives shows actual action he admires and that action is void of judgement or recognition of response to good or evil.
A truth to be gleaned from the story is that we can turn lemons into lemonade. The problem is that we shouldn't allow every person and his dog to give us lemons as the self has his own right to accept and reject what others want him to do.
Tolle did not accept his given name that his parents wanted for him. If he followed the example of the guru in his story then he would have.
True he says a lot of good things, but then I see other things where he contradicts himself. Sometimes he explains the contradictions as related to the self and not self but other times he does not because they appear to be true contradictions.
JJ:
Tolle says we should not fight evil.
Dan:
"I disagree, please see quotes below."
[Editors Note: Due to the length/number of the quotes, they were not included in this article. However, they can be found in Dan's posts made to The Keys Spiritual Discussion Group.]
JJ:
The bottom line is this. Even though some of the ways that Tolle words his presentation rubs me the wrong way I would in no way discourage anyone here from reading him and incorporating into their lives that which seems right to their souls.
You seem to think my problem with him is that I just glossed over his teachings, but I think I absorbed them pretty well.
That said I want you to resist a black and white interpretation of my comments on him. I am not saying "me right and Tolle wrong."
Overall, he is a good writer and has some productive things to say. Even the things I see as wrong emphasis have truth behind them if seen in the light of the soul. I think his writings are better than "The Celestine Prophecy" and "Conversations with God."
It would be boring for me to just list all his teachings with which I agree, but it is more thought provoking to point out where wrong directions may lie. This gives us food for thought and stimulates our own power of judgement.
Again, I would bet if you specifically tell me of truths you gleaned from his writings that I would agree with you.
Copyright © 2008 by JJ Dewey, All Rights Reserved