Re: Eckhart Tolle

2008-3-12 04:31:00

Dan:

"But please, before I get lynched - continue with the book - we will try to play nicely. Other than posting a quote or two from time to time I am done talking about Tolle, sorry for the distraction everybody."

JJ:

Thanks for the prodding on the book. I do need to get on with it. Tolle's material is very timely and a good subject for discussion. I'm about two thirds through with the New Heaven book and can see that his writings will be of value to many. I can see why Oprah was impressed by him. There are several illusions though for he seems to support the Nothingness Philosophy. Fortunately, this is not the main theme he pushes. A seeker can read this or any other book and take what registers with his soul and leave the rest.

What has really sidetracked me is our discussion on money. I'm glad this happened because even though I've seen several principles that are true on it I feel I need to broaden my education. I've been reading some more Friedman, Von Mises and now a very innovative economist named Stephen Zarlenga. I've just bought his book, The Lost Science of Money which I will plunge into soon. He has some of his writings on the web and can be found at:

http://monetary.org/

He says some interesting things about gold and the Austrian economics at:

http://www.monetary.org/goldnewsletter.htm

http://www.monetary.org/refute.htm

I feel seed thoughts being planted in me that will soon bear fruit.

In a follow-on post to the above, Dan wrote the following:

"If you can clearly articulate these potential 'pockets of illusion,' I would appreciate it. I am attending Oprah and Tolle's Monday night Live Web Class and I can submit the questions and try to get answers direct from the horse's mouth instead of speculating."

JJ:

I don't see any speculation involved. I don't have the text in front of me to quote since I am listening to the audio, but he says quite clearly in the book I am reading that the true reality is beyond duality. He uses formless, but in a different context than DK [Djwhal Khul]. He uses it to imply nothingness whereas DK uses it to describe a world where structure does not exist, but is far from nothing. His philosophy is close to that of Paul Yu that had so many discussions with. Jody also seems to subscribe to this thinking.

Like most "nothingness people" Tolle says there is no difference between good and evil and the best thing to do is to ignore anything going on as nothing means anything for in he end everything will be as if it never was and we will just merge with the whole and lose our identity. He gives examples of a teacher who has terrible things happen to him and he just shrugs it off. This is supposed to be good (there's that word again) because nothing means anything in the end.

Then he backtracks and asks if we should not care about certain things and indicates that we should, but does not say why because caring contradicts his previous statements.

This type of teaching is prevalent in eastern teachings. Just as Christianity has some common illusions so do the religions in the East.

For instance here is an example of what is seen as great enlightenment.

A teacher fetched much needed water in his only jug and was heading home with it on his head when a stranger bumped him and it fell to the ground and broke. The man continued on as if nothing had happened. Another guy noticed this and was curious and approached the guy and asked: "Sir. Don't you realize you dropped your valuable jug and have suffered a great loss?"

He said he did but because the accident was now in the past it means nothing and so he is moving forward a if nothing has happened.

There are two types of people who take this approach to life.

Those who are high on drugs -- very high.
Those who embrace the Nothingness Philosophy.

Those who embrace this philosophy miss the whole purpose of existence which they tend to see as an accident that is not even supposed to have happened.

Existence was supposed to have happened and we are supposed to engage in it and find joy therein.

When you go to sleep at night and enter the dream state you could say that what happened during the day means nothing because you are now in a different world. BUT in reality is everything that happens during the day negated just because you enter a different reality at night. The present is all there is as Tolle and many others say so while we are here, this is all there is, and thus we should make the most of it for there are many billions of years before The Great Pralaya occurs.

The true teaching centers around detachment rather than withdrawal from this reality. When the seeker is detached he can then use his judgement and view negative things from the viewpoint of the observer. A withdrawal is a form of denial as was the case of the man who dropped the jug or the case cited by Tolle of the man who raised and gave up a child with no feeing of joy or sorrow.

Here are some previous comments of mine concerning the Nothingness Philosophy:

Examining Nothingness

Since we've been hit a lot lately with the Nothingness Philosophy I thought I would make a few more comments on it in addition to the tens of thousands of words I have already written on it. Perhaps this will be useful to some of the new people who wonder why members seem to be a little impatient in dealing with them.

Someone asked a while back what the Nothingness Philosophy is. Here it is in a nutshell.

There is a point between the dualities, between (or beyond) the high and low point of the wavelength, between light and dark, black and white, hot and cold which is neither up or down left or right. This point is beyond time and space, has no form, but the source of all things. This point is where the true God is.

This is the point to which we must return if we desire eternal bliss. This is ironical since bliss itself can only exist as one side of a duality. Even so, this point beyond time and space, this Point of Nothingness, sometimes called The Great Void, is where believers want to go.

The question is -- how do we get there?

Their teachings on this are fairly vague. The main reason for this is they say that the experience of the Nothingness Point cannot be put in words because it is beyond words. Even so, it is very desirable to be as Nothingness for it is blissful beyond description.

Roughly, [and according to the Nothingness Philosophy] here is how we get to the blissful point.

The world of duality is pure illusion and is basically our own deceptive creation which takes our attention away from the Nothingness Point. What we therefore need to do is let go of all creation in the world of duality. This allows us to return to Nothingness.
We must let go of our minds which deceive us with the illusions we see in front of is. We must empty our minds of all knowledge, past beliefs, attachments etc and be as if we know nothing.
Ironically, even though we are supposed to let go of everything to do with the mind we are not supposed to let go also of the feelings of the heart -- even though the feelings of the heart are a part of duality. I've never seen them give any reasoning behind this. They say we are to follow our hearts which will lead us to the Nothingness Point. Some use the word "surrender."
Even though they tell us we reach the Nothingness Point by letting go, the advocates don't seem to want us to let go of them. They seem to think that their assistance is somehow essential.
Love is essential to reach the Point, but if you have not reached the Point then you do not understand love. It must be explained to you by someone who has reached the Point. Then after love is explained to you, you must admit that his definition of love is correct. Once you do this you are well on your way to the Point.
You should have no interest in what others call the "real world" and let everything go. I'm not sure how the nothingness people do this since most have jobs, families, etc.
Meditate and put your attention on the point between dualities.