2006-2-18 05:06:00
Thanks Ruth for finding that quiz.
Surudaeast7 writes:
I was pleasantly surprised by your reaction, Joseph. I also took the political quiz which placed me as being a conservative. That was very surprising, because I think that I am a big liberal. I had a kind of revelation at that moment, which I think explains all of this. Every single one of us has a completely different view of what it is to be liberal and conservative. In the way I view liberal and conservative beliefs, being liberal is right.
That's an unusual definition of liberal, but it partially tells us where you are coming from. The trouble is we do not know what percentage of the time you are right and therefore liberal.
Surudaeast7:
But in the way you or anyone else may view liberal and conservative beliefs, conservative beliefs may be right.
In my view conservative and liberal have nothing to do with being right. Conservative has to do with conserving and liberal has to be with having a liberal attitude toward change or acceptance. Some things are right to conserve other things are right to change.
Surudaeast7:
I will say it again because I think it explains it all. Everyone has a different interpretation of what it means to be liberal or conservative.
I think most Republicans and Democrats have a fairly consistent view of the two terms, but much of what they call liberal is really conservative and visa versa. For instance, many environmentalists are called liberal when they are perhaps the most conservative people on the planet strongly against any liberal use of the land or resources. They admit they want to "conserve," which is to be conservative.
Surudaeast7:
Another thing I want to point out is that your views as they have been expressed are no where near the views of what would be considered mainstream conservativism. You are a much more progressive conservative than most.
That's because I'm more liberal than conservative if we go by the dictionary meaning of the word. More precisely I am a libertarian in attitude, but do not align with the Libertarian party.
Surudaeast7:
I respect your beliefs. But there is one thing you are absolutely wrong on. And that was #3 in your list of DK's views. Liberals are against nuclear bombs, not nuclear energy!
It may be true that a handful of orthodox liberals support nuclear energy, but their number is few. Most are against it. Bush has been pushing to build more nuclear power plants. The orthodox conservatives generally support him in this and almost all the liberal Democrats oppose him.
Surudaeast7:
As for the war, it depends on what the war is for. It depends on whether you believe that the cause is great enough to be worth all those who die in it. I want to point out that in 911, about 3,000 people died. In Iraq, over 30,000 Iraqis have died already. But you never see that on Fox News.
I've heard this on Fox News several times. I find Fox News to be the most liberal media as far as liberally presenting all points of view. Those who do not want to hear both sides accuse it of extreme bias. They may be a little biased but nothing like CNN in the other direction. For instance, Fox news has dozens from the far left on their payroll and CNN has zero from the far right on theirs.
I think it is worth a million Iraqi lives to obtain liberty and so do many Iraqis. 30,000 is a small price compared to the advance of liberty obtained in the Civil War or World War II.
Surudaeast7:
This brings me to another point. Fox News is basically the same thing as the New York Times. They are both extremely biased their respective ways.
Yes, the New York times is very biased for is has not one strong conservative on the payroll and almost all the editorials swing left. Fox News, however has a large number of orthodox liberals, some quite extreme, as regular contributors. Some of these are: Alan Colmes, Ellis Henican, Geraldo Rivera, Greta Van Susteren, Geraldine Ferraro, Katrina vanden Heuvel, David Corn, Eric Alterman, Juan Williams, Mara Liasson, Mort Kondracke, Flavia Colgan, Susan Estrich, Ellen Rattner, Eleanor Clift, Jane Hall, Neal Gabler and as many Democrat legislators as are willing to appear.
An opposing balance from the right is not on CNN or any other network. Best selling author Ann Coulter cannot get on any media except for Fox, yet Fox is willing to put on many liberal equivalents to Coulter. Michael Savage who has ten million listeners on talk radio can't get on any media, not even Fox, yet any liberal with ten million listeners can get on any media.
Surudaeast7:
But there is one issue that affects me personally, it is the most important issue to me, and it ties me indefinitely to the Democratic Party. That issue is gay marriage. I am gay, and all I want is the same rights as any other American. Straight people can marry the person that they love. I cannot.
I can't get excited about legal marriage for gays or for anyone else. If the government told me that I couldn't have a marriage certificate, but could still live together in a committed relationship, I would think it strange, but wouldn't be affected by it. Life would go on unchanged - I can't see how I would lose any rights. A marriage certificate is largely a psychological device.
This is one area I agree with the hippies of the Sixties who couldn't see how a piece of paper made any difference.
I think John C gave a pretty balanced comment on this.
Surudaeast7 continues:
The extreme liberals are very accepting of gay people. While conservatives on the other hand. Well, most of them think that I am an abomination to the Lord and that after I die I am going to go to hell and going to suffer for all eternity, just for being who I am. I think that this belief is extremely irrational.
On the average liberals are more accepting of gay people, but many conservatives are also quite accepting. The problem arises from literal Bible believers who reject gays because of certain verses in the Bible. I'd guess that about 20% of Democrats are also literal Bible believers who have a problem with gays.
Surudaeast7:
And that belief is the norm amongst mainstream social conservatives. I cannot in good conscience politically align myself with people who believe that, and most conservatives believe that!
I don't think you can find any group or party that is in 100 agreement with an individual's belief system.
Surudaeast7:I know from personal experience that I face great prejudice from conservatives and none from liberals.
Orthodox liberals are quite accepting of gays, but extremely intolerant of other things. Overall, I find the orthodox conservatives to be the more tolerant as a whole.
Surudaeast7:
P.S. Hillary Clinton for President!!!!!!!
Then be prepared to have many freedoms restricted.
He had discovered a great law of human action, without knowing it - namely, that in order to make a man or a boy covet a thing, it is only necessary to make the thing difficult to obtain. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910), "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer"
Copyright © 2006 by J J Dewey, All Rights Reserved