Liberal Thoughts

2006-2-17 03:00:00

Surudaeast7 writes:

I have just joined this group, but I have read your books and most of your posts on the "Keys of Knowledge" Archive. And I want to say that I strongly agree with your spiritual philosophies and the principles that you lay out and discuss. But there is one thing that greatly troubles me about your postings, and that is your politics. First of all, I am an extreme liberal. My entire family is extremely liberal and I live in one of the most liberal areas of the country. If anyone would know what the liberal philosophies and ideologies are, it would be me. Many times you will say something like "liberals think" or "liberals believe.." or "liberals want this" and the wide majority of the time you are completely wrong.

Welcome to the group. Glad you like the writings.

I do not recall saying "many times" liberals think so and so. Since much of what is called liberal is really conservative and much that is called conservative is liberal I am reluctant to use such terms without qualification. When I speak of modern liberals and conservatives I usually use the word "orthodox" in reference to it.

However, when I speak of defining liberals and conservatives as the terms are generally accepted I think I have been pretty accurate. I would be interested in an example where you think I am not accurate.

I am reposting a chapter about some of my views on liberals and conservatives for clarification.

The group did a test a while back that was designed to show how conservative of liberal we are. If I recall correctly I was over 70% liberal and most of the group was over 50% liberal.

Surudaeast7:

Liberals basically believe in peace, freedom, equality, and love. All of the policies stem from those core values.

Both liberals and conservatives have these core values but have different approaches to achieving them. Some who see a different approach than they use will unjustly judge the person as not having such values.

Surudaeast7:

The liberal voice is the voice of positive change and improvement of our world.

Again, both sides are attempting to make positive change and improve the world. They just have different ideas as to how to do it.

Surudaeast7:

I will make a few points to you as why this is true and why liberals are right.

I am a huge fan of the works of Alice A. Bailey and DK. I have read all of them multiple times. The books, especially when speaking of service, and today's problems, are basically one big liberal manifesto.

I don't think so. DK presents a balance between the two sides and presents a good balance of traditional liberal and conservative views. It is also interesting that the extremes of both sides reject the Alice A. Bailey writings as evil.

Here are some views of DK that harmonizes with the current conservative view.

He harshly criticized the United States and Europe for not taking a preemptive stand and going to war with Hitler before he became a world threat. When you read his views here it would seem he would support Bush for stopping Saddam Hussein.
He praised the United States for using the atomic bomb in ending the war. Today most conservatives agree with this and many liberals think we were wrong.
He supported the use of atomic energy to create power stating this has potential to liberate much of the world. This is a current conservative view.
Though he endorsed the United Nations, his criticisms of it sounded a lot like the conservatives today.
He harshly criticized the peace movements of the day sounding as right wing in this area as Pat Robertson.
He often spoke of freedom in harmony with the view that many conservatives have of it.
He talked about the differences among the races, a big conservative mistake according to most modern liberals.
He spoke concretely about good and evil as do many conservatives today - but with more understanding, of course.

These are just a few points. My desire here is not to prove that DK was conservative, but to point out the balance in his thinking - that he incorporated the best of both.

Surudaeast7:

If you really take a good look at history, you will find that the liberal point of view always in retrospect ends up being correct. The biggest example was slavery. The liberals of the north wanted to end slavery, while the southern conservatives wanted to keep it. I think we can all agree that slavery was wrong. Thus the Civil War was fought, in the name of liberal principles, and slavery was abolished. Abraham Lincoln was one of the most liberal Presidents in history.

It is interesting that you choose the "conservative" Republican party as an example of good liberalism. Actually the circumstances have changed, but the basic approach of the Republicans and Democrats are not much different now than it was during the Civil War.

It is also interesting that you say that liberals stress peace and love, yet you pick a Republican war President to extol. Believe me; during the Civil War few saw Lincoln as an advocate of love and peace. Adversarial newspaper editors that he threw in jail were seething with rage toward him.

There are many similarities between Lincoln fighting to free the slaves and Bush fighting to free the people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In the strict definition of the term it was a liberal agenda to free the slaves, but this was the secondary reason Lincoln went to war. The main reason was to "conserve" The Union which was definitely a conservative action.

Surudaeast7:

He was a Republican, but at that time, the Republican Party was the liberal party and represented the north, while the Democrats were conservative and represented the South.

This is still the case in many ways. As the word "liberal" is defined by the dictionary the Republican party is still the more liberal of the two. (See my other post).

Surudaeast7:

The liberal beliefs represent the beliefs of the new Aquarian Era, and the conservative beliefs represent the old Piscean Era.

The Aquarian Age will be the age of synthesis more than a liberal or conservative age. That which is good from the past will be restored, or conserved, and that which needs changed will be approached liberally.

Surudaeast7:

Liberals favor world peace, conservatives favor world wars.

In thought maybe, but not in deed. All four of the major wars of the last century were fought by liberal icons.

World War I was fought by Woodrow Wilson, World War II by FDR, the Korean war by Truman and the Vietnam War was plunged into by LBJ - all Democratic liberal icons. I think you speak without thinking here in saying that "conservatives favor world wars" when history does not bear this out.

Surudaeast7:

As for the environment, what we are currently doing to out planet is destroying it and killing it, and we liberals want to keep our planet.

Again, both sides seek to save the planet but have different approaches. Few realize that air quality and many environmental standards have improved under Bush. He is criticized for his approach, not so much for his results, which are ignored by many.

Surudaeast7:

The "Oneness Principle" is extremely liberal, as opposed to the conservative belief that everyone is on their own.

I don't think the Oneness Principle is conservative or liberal any more than Mars is.

Conservatives sometimes speak of being one in the Spirit and liberals sometimes speak of being one in consciousness, but they are basically the same thing.

Surudaeast7:

The fact that we even have the right to express our opinions in public forums such as this is because of liberal ideologies.

And these ideologies are often strongly supported by many orthodox conservatives. For instance more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act in the Sixties than did the Democrats.

Surudaeast7:

Following the strict code of beliefs of a particular church is a conservative principle, while branching off and choosing your own spiritual beliefs is a liberal principle. So, in a way, you presenting your books to the world which contain beliefs that are not the exact beliefs of the church already makes you at least in part a liberal already.

You are correct. I am very liberal in this respect and often drive orthodox conservatives crazy when I talk to them.

Surudaeast7:

Whenever liberals get their way, good things happen, such as the destruction of slavery and segregation.

But again you are talking about things accomplished with the support of the Republican Party - so you're not talking about the standard view of liberalism.

Surudaeast7:

If conservatives had their way, we would still have slavery and no one would be able to voice their own opinions.

I do not know any conservatives who want to stop me from giving my opinion. Orthodox liberals are the ones that demand I speak on their terms with politically correct speech. If the liberal side of Bush did not get his way the people of Afghanistan and Iraq would also still be in slavery.

Surudaeast7:

I would like a response from you, whether it be through the Keysters or through a direct e-mail. Too many conservatives run away when faced with the truth. It would also be interesting to see what others in this group think.

I never run away from a good challenge.

I find the opposite to be true. I find that orthodox conservatives seem to like to discuss the issues and don't seem to fear a little disagreement or conflict but it is difficult to find an orthodox liberal who will discuss controversial issues without bowing out after a couple minutes.

Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side. Anonymous --