Re: Abortion Comments

2005-12-17 23:49:00

Larry quotes me:

"The argument you mention above concerns the creation of the vehicle but doesn't prove what's in the vehicle or when it gets there."

You are shifting the focus here.

The issue is not the ultimate truth of these people's arguments. The issue is _not_ whether they are ultimately correct. The issue is not whether they even conceive of your belief that the fetus is simply a "vehicle" (which they most certainly do not).

The issue is whether their orientation is primarily logical, or feeling.

I'm not shifting focus one iota. You gave data about the creation and development of the body as evidence the pro-choice people are being logical and my point was that this is data that has little to with logical argument, nor is it much basis for an argument as far as I can see. This is staying on topic, not shifting.

Larry:

You previously wrote:

"The answer is this is one case where the Republicans show their female side."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Keysters/message/23375

In fact the conservative side shows a great deal of reason and logic in attempting establish their case. That is simply a fact.

If this is a fact I do not see it. Where is the reason and what is the argument?

Larry:

The other side, the liberals, simply have one idea - the right of the woman to control her body - and they reject any ideas or argumentation that attempt to show the personhood of the fetus.

I pretty much agree with you there.

Larry:

It is also a "rational vs. rationalization" issue. Here is the distinction.

1. To be truly rational means to take into consideration _all_ of the facts and to attempt to integrate _all_ the known facts into one's explanation. That means that one is willing to accept facts that one doesn't necessarily like because one's ultimate allegiance is to absolute truth to the highest degree that one can discern it.

I think both sides accept this basic proven fact which is:

The fetus does go through a process of development until it becomes human. It has response and looks human before birth.

Where both sides disagree is in their beliefs, which cannot be proven and is often not based on reason and logic.

Larry

In the case of highly polarized issues like abortion each side often will start with the facts they like, and evade or ignore those they don't like. In both cases then we could claim they are being driven more by their feelings than by the facts. In both cases they perform some degree or reasoning with the facts they like.

I agree the pro-life people do look at and use more facts, but using facts and piecing them together to produce a sound argument are two different things.

For instance, to go through great pains to gather and show pictures of a developing fetus does nothing to prove whether or not God sees it has being a full blown human being or that the spirit is in the body.

It does, however, appeal very strongly to the feeling nature.

There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government. Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)