Strange Doctrine 101

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:47 am

Johan writes:

"If one wants to make a huge leap on his spiritual path, the very first thing he has to learn is to be able to establish a sound and healthy relationship with his/her neighbour, whether this neighbor has committed crime or not."

JJ:

This is really basic. I think all members of the list realize this.

Johan:

"However, this healthy relationship is more than just being friendly towards each other. It implies to be responsible for our neighbour's acts too."

JJ:

I'm glad you're not my neighbor then. I don't want someone living close to me who wants to take my responsibilities upon himself. I am happy being responsible for my own acts.

Johan:

"It is to become or see our overall responsibility on earth towards life in general, to being a human soul with consciousness and for being the custodian of all other lower kingdoms on earth. Seeing and feeling this responsibility is called awareness."

JJ:

It's our responsibility to contribute to the good of the whole to the best of our ability if that is what you mean, but this involves taking a self-chosen responsibility upon ourselves and not taking responsibility from someone else.

Johan:

"However, during the ages humanity has forgotten this responsibility completely."

JJ:

I don't think so. Many feel it to some degree and this taking responsibility is increasing not decreasing.

Johan:

"It satisfies itself by its outer sense only and by feeding its desires. It satisfies itself by breeding and then slaughtering animals in order to eat them. Nobody seems to care about the life of other life forms that is inhabiting our planet also. The human being has developed into a creature that seems to be totally indifferent concerning life except its very own. Man has forgotten his relation with nature, and that's why man has fallen in a dense body and has even forgotten who he truly is."

JJ:

The karma between humanity and the animal kingdom as far as food supply is concerned is mostly of a group nature. The animals who in the beginning dined upon man are now being eaten by man. When the great wheel is balanced then the time will come when most of humanity will be vegetarians and the "lion will eat straw like the ox" as stated by Isaiah.

When this time comes then our plants will be grown in much better soil and our food will be much more nutritious and satisfying.

If a person raises an animal for food and treats it well then the good treatment of the animal will balance off negative karma.

Cows, chickens, pigs and other farm animals raised for food have a close relationship with humans. Farmers often talk to these animals, name them and feel genuine affection toward them. In return these animals are stimulated and do acquire a sense of higher relationship toward their masters which wild animals never develop. These domestic animals are thus stimulated in their evolution toward the human kingdom just as teachers among us stimulate our human evolution toward the Kingdom of God. Our own evolution toward the Kingdom of God often carries with it much more sacrifice than that experienced by the domestic animals. Domestic animals, for instance, are often taken better care of than are those in the wild at the hands of nature.

If man ceased eating meat tomorrow, all the cows, chickens, pigs, etc., would not be properly taken care of and begin suffering death and pain in many forms until they arrive at the danger of extinction. Meat eating is essential for their survival for the foreseeable future.

Not far from where I live the wild elk at the mercy of nature come close to starving to death in scarce winters. Without human assistance in supplying them with some extra food these poor animals would suffer horrible deaths.

Johan:

"The human being has developed into a creature that settles himself in a place and only when this place is raped and plundered of all the raw materials, and the trash has piled up to massive amounts and when he has poisoned the environment entirely that it might become a threat for himself to live in, then he will move and seeks himself another place to vampirise. There is but one species on earth that has the same behaviour: a virus. It even preferably kills its host before it leaves."

JJ:

Wow! You have such a negative view of who you are that I am surprised you haven't jumped off a bridge to destroy at least one virus.

You are totally mislead on this. Humanity makes some mistakes but then sees the error of their ways and corrects them. It will not be long before humanity lives in harmony with nature and actually improves upon nature. A virus does not change to the better. We do.

Johan:

"Humanity has lost its roots and has forgotten the plot completely. It wanders on earth in chaos. In fact it does not know what life is. The only thing it understand is the temporal physical life and the fear of death, which is so huge that it needs to protect itself to extend it or to protect its little group members by buying and using killing weapons. The excuse is to protect themselves, but he easily forgets that allowing guns also allowed potential criminals to buy and use them too. So, what in fact is the chicken and the egg?"

JJ:

Yes, freedom seems a little hazardous until you look at the alternative. Then you have a cataclysmic collapse of the soul to worry about.

I assume that since you need no protection then you have the ability to walk through walls.

We had a guy on the list a while back who claimed to be able to teleport himself. We invited him to teach us how to do it, but of course he refused.

Johan:

"Everybody is focused upon the black and white fields of the chess game of the Beast."

JJ:

If you support the unnecessary restriction of freedom then you are in bed with the beast, big time.

Johan:

"Everybody is focusing on the attack and protection of self."

JJ:

I'm not. Most of the people on the list are not. Speak for yourself.

Johan:

"Everybody is heavily focused upon the self."

JJ:

"Everybody" would include yourself, right?

Johan:

"It all is a selfish game people are playing out on the stage called the Earth. There is nothing else that is done despite all the lofty spiritual teachings and sayings etc, which in fact are only confirming and cultivating the ego-self if such knowledge does not sink in and integrate in one's awareness."

JJ:

Everyone is not selfish. There are a lot of good and decent people on this planet. To not see this is missing a level of spiritual vision.

Johan:

"Everyone here loves his free will and his freedom, and would even protect this with all that one has available."

JJ:

Consider those who did not love their freedom enough to stand up for it. The prime example are the Germans in the thirties and forties. And the result? They were enslaved by as tyrant. Those who do not love their freedom and defend it will loose it in due time.

I understand the European Union is seeking to take away your freedom to buy vitamins and herbs. Are you going to let them walk over you or stand up to them? If you and others do not then the freedom to naturally medicate yourself will be no more.

Johan:

"He thinks that he is free and that he has the right to own a gun in order to kill anybody who would dare to threat him or his relatives. He only thinks in terms of he against me. His mental state, his mindframe is only fixed upon the physical body which has nothing but a low body-consciousness. That is his object of all his desires and his simplistic reasoning."

JJ:

I really wonder if you even know any gun owners because of the way you mischaracterize them. Most of them do not think of doing harm any more than non-gun owners, but if a dangerous situation occurs then both the gun owner and the non owner would think of self-protection. I guarantee you that if a crazy man were sawing off your legs that your thoughts would gravitate toward protecting yourself no matter what your belief system.

Johan:

"But nobody knows that his sense of freedom is a false sense."

JJ:

I have the freedom to wave my arm. Are you telling me that I am deceived and cannot really wave my arm? If one has the freedom to move and to speak then he has the freedom to speak and move. It is as simple as that.

Johan:

"He believes that he is free when he stays out of prison in his bodily state, but all the while he is caught in a mental prison that is put over his mind and which keeps him enslaved to this physical world by exploiting his desires and passions and his ideas about freedom."

JJ:

You seem to think this is a secret knowledge that only you possess but almost all people understand there are levels of freedom, that we can be enslaved by our passions and habits on one hand yet have certain freedoms on the other.

Johan:

"All the lofty talk about freedom is imaginary and illusory and misleading when it is not understood that each human being is not free at all in this world."

JJ:

Not free at all. Here you are deceived for I have complete freedom to type up this post and express my views. This requires some freedom. All of us have some freedom. Even a child understands this.

Johan:

"Man is caught in this world of forms and appearances. Man's spirit is caught in matter. That is what counts. That's why Jesus said: only the [Living] Truth will set you free. He meant by this the Liberation of the soul."

JJ:

You're preaching here what we all know. We realize that matter limits our freedom, but this is a temporary thing. "The truth will set you free" applies to many different levels of meaning.

Johan:

"We have to understand deeply that it was this free will of self that once created the Fall from Heaven, from the Source."

JJ:

And it will be though free will that we return.

Johan:

"It was the free will that created the big distance with God."

JJ:

And it will be through free will that the choice is made to bridge that distance. You cannot force people to God..

Johan:

"Using this free will has caused the human race to fall and to crystalise into a dense and gross body."

JJ:

And by free will we will overcome all things and ascend in spirit.

Johan:

"By using the free will, man once deviated from his divine heritage and turned his face from God's Will, which resulted in a the simple man he is now."

JJ:

By free will we will reveal the face of God.

Johan:

"It is this free will that was responsible that Adam and eve listened to the serpent, and started to obey the Beast. And up to now no one seems to have any idea of all the implications. Up until now it is still this free will that keeps man enslaved and subservient to the Beast. More than 6 billion people are daily playing out the game of free will of self and so are serving the Beast."

JJ:

Lack of applying free will keeps men subject to the beast. I thought I have heard it all. I have come across some who are against free will and will not admit it, but you seem to be against it and are proud of it. This is a milestone I have not seen before.

Johan:

"Your example of how to protect oneself against a rapist of one's wife simply is an ignorant example, and does not testify of any Knowing of the Higher Laws that are governing this world. I only hear the vibration of body-consciousness and of bodily care. I only hear the self in its desire and fear. Such a situation as you depict is not real."

JJ:

And you are probably one of the ones who think the Holocaust was not real. Terrible things happen now and then and to pretend that painful situations will never occur in your life is to be disconnected from reality.

You didn't answer my question as to what you would do in an awkward situation as I suspected you would not. The trouble with your philosophy is that it is all theory with no application. You have no real life experience proving it works.

Johan:

"The spiritual law is that it is you and you alone who attracts this kind of situations yourself. This kind of situation usually is karmatically determined and will happen anyway regardless you have a gun or not. For karma must be balanced and fighting against this Cosmic karma and the spiritual Hierarchy and karmic Lords is absolutely useless."

JJ:

Karma can play itself out in many ways. It would be silly to follow your philosophy. For instance, if I saw a car coming at me and thought like you I would think, "Because this car is coming at me it must mean that it is my karma to get run over. I guess I'd better not move." It is just as ridiculous to be in the way of an aggressor and to let him destroy you without resistance because you think it is your karma and there is nothing you can do. There is always something you can do.

Johan:

"Simply said, this situation as you depicted will not happen unless you have created a similar situation from your side in the past that calls forth the same situation today but then in an opposite way. So, that's why I cannot answer on your questions since this example is futile."

JJ:

DK [Djwhal Khul] tells us that we are also subject to group karma. This brings us into many situations that we did not imagine. Do you think all the six million Jews killed by Hitler had thoughts of death by a tyrant that drew that reality to them? Many of them were as pure in thought as yourself.

Johan:

"The law is that violence evokes violence. This destructive circle can only be broken when we come to Know about the higher Laws and obey them and to be able to forgive the trespasser. We do not need a gun to protect ourselves. We can trust the Cosmos and act in this."

JJ:

And harm begets harm. If a policeman with a gun comes across one man about to kill another and does not use the threat of force to stop it then he will have blood on his hands and would be responsible for the death of another.

It is as Solomon said. There is a time and place for all things. Sometimes the most harmless action will require drastic action, as in the case of the policeman above. There is more to harmlessness than to sit in a corner, escaping from reality, and meditating all day.

Johan:

"Only this allows him to understand what life is and also what the Purpose of Life is, and then finally in his increased awareness he begins to understand that the only true choice he has to execute his free will, is to choose not to use his free will anymore and to surrender to God's Will."

JJ:

But God's will is that we have free will, else we would not even have it.

Johan:

"A strange doctrine, isn't it? But I assure you that this doctrine is purely Gnostic. It is the doctrine of selflessness and giving up of self."

JJ:

What makes you think that the giving up of self has anything to do with giving up free will??? When you yield the lower self to the higher free will is enhanced. The truth makes us free, remember?

Johan:

"However, this seems to be so damn difficult to understand and to accept by westerners. And yet this mental resistance blocks any spiritual progress. This is a real challenge."

JJ:

And I suppose you're an example of great spiritual progress? You had me fooled for you certainly are putting a lot of energy being cantankerous and standing up for your ego. You seem to be going out of your way to be divisive, never seeming to find points of agreement where you can add a constructive thought. It is you that has the "us against them" consciousness on display here and until you see that the only purpose you will serve here is to challenge and diminish the "them" on this list.

"I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: What the hell good would that do?"
  -- Ronnie Shakes

Copyright © 2005 by J J Dewey, All Rights Reserved