True and Truth

2004-8-7 05:30:00

Clarice writes:
Interesting that you use math as example of Truth. Did you not know that Math has been distorted to fit into the model of duality?

JJ:
No. I did not know that. Perhaps you can explain to be why 2+2=4 is distorted. Perhaps it is really 5?

Clarice:
For example, negative and positive numbers are not moral judgments of having or not having, but are only referring to the direction and distance one moves from the source?

JJ:
No one is claiming they are moral judgments.

Are you saying that he who has two apples is further from God than he who has one apple? Strange reasoning.

Clarice:
Fallen math may be used as an example of what is true or perhaps what is false, but it is most certainly not Truth.

JJ:
So you are saying that 2+2=4 is true, but not truth. If that which is true is not truth then it must be falsehood. Perhaps you can explain yourself.

Clarice:
All that we find here in this realm is simply a picture or image, a shadow, of what is Real.

JJ:
But even a shadow has a cause and is real. If I cast a shadow it is true that there is a shadow and the principle that creates it is also true. I speak the truth when I explain a shadow. Do you deny this reality?

Clarice:
There have been many encounters that precluded any thought or reflection on the topic of revelation. The following is one.

As a fundamental Christian with not a thought of duality, I experienced something that my mind first interpreted as two extremes or ends of the spectrum. Truth or Certainty did not exist in either end but somewhere above. And somehow was inclusive of them both.

Following this experience, I was able to see these two opposite ends being played out in the Bible, and also in life in general.

....I have found writings and that did resonate with that feeling.

JJ:
Can you please tell me what the truth was you received so I can make a fair judgment? Apparently it was a "feeling" about duality.

As far as duality goes if you were a fundamentalist Christian you had done a lot of thinking about duality as you contemplated heaven and hell, God and Satan, good and evil etc.

Clarice:
When you have experienced Gnosis, you have a Certainty, an experiential Knowing that exists within you. There are no words, but to communicate this Knowing, the mind must find words to express it.

Quoting JJ:
It sounds like you are not talking about truth here but a process of discovery. Two very different things.

Clarice
How so? What is there to discover but Truth?

JJ:
That's certainly the goal, but many discover that which is not true and are deceived.

Those who speak of going beyond the mind fall into two categories.

(1) Emotionally based people who have not yet discovered mind or soul, but only brain and feeling. When these reach an emotional high they feel they have reached the Absolute where in reality they have only reach a new emotional feeling and have yet to achieve the vibration of mind - which is higher than emotion.
(2) Intuitive people who have truly gone beyond mind. This is the minority of the two categories. These do not leave the mind behind, just as an intelligent person does not leave a car behind. The mind is a vehicle that he continues to use while in the world.

True gnosis occurs in the plane above the mind, but there are three planes yet above this. This fourth plane is also a vehicle that presents before the mind ideas and principles as in a flash of inspiration.

Thus whatever truth is brought into consciousness is through a process. Any seeker on the earth is a far distance from any ultimate reality.

Clarice:
The words are not stepping stones to the Knowing, but stepping stones to communicate the Knowing.

JJ:
Reality seems to disagree with you. Mankind is the only species that uses words and is also the only one that has a conscious knowing.

Words are stepping stones to knowing and also "from" knowing to the communication of that which is known.

Clarice:
Huh? Who said human words were the Word of God?

JJ:
We are talking about words, which are the same whether they be spoken by God or man.

The Word is God whether they are spoken by God or his reflection which is us.

One of the future Keys is the discovery of God in all words.

Clarice:
God's Word existed before man, before he uttered a single word.

JJ:
This is not true for there was no beginning to God or man.

Clarice:
It is God's creative thought, His Voice, a vibration, not words spoken or written by man.

JJ:
Words are vibration whether spoken by God or man.

Clarice:
And regarding Perfect and imperfect: As Purusha explained words are used to help us verbalize what is and what isn't God.

JJ:
This cannot be true of the Word which is God. There is nothing that is not God - nothing that is not vibration or words.

Clarice:
Perfect or Complete is an expression of what is God. Imperfect is what is not God. And so God can most certainly do something differently than originally Planned and remain Himself.

JJ:
If all these imperfect worlds were not of God then something other than God created them. Who was this? And was this imperfect creator created by a perfect God?

It is true that God or any life can do something different than originally planned, but this just proves my point that the original plan could not thgen have been perfect and no being is perfect. The idea of absolute perfection is an illusion.

Quoting JJ:
It tells us that God is in the midst or middle of creation and has not yet been able to bring things to perfection. Relative perfection will come, but is not yet.

Clarice
Huh? (Again) How do you get that?

JJ:
Look around you. We are in an imperfect world created by God. Perfection cannot create imperfection so obviously God is not perfect as is formulated by the theologians.

Clarice:
Sparks of God do exist in this fallen world but they sleep encrusted in matter. And these sparks of God are pure and perfect already, just clothed in rags! Have you not experienced the pure and innocent in yourself or perhaps within another in a moment of intimacy?

JJ:
Yes, we are reflections of God, but since you cannot walk on water you have not yet perfectly mastered the physical plane. Obviously the divine spark cannot yet do many things on the physical, motional and mental planes to perfection and thus us not perfect on all the planes. To deny this takes a convoluted reasoning.

Clarice:
Who set this standard of perfection that God is moving towards?

JJ:
The atom sets the standard of perfection in creation. When a creation cannot be improved upon then relative perfection is reached and a model is formed that is endlessly duplicated.

Clarice:
What has been created is in process but God the All, the Infinite is lacking nothing and is already complete and perfect. Do you doubt Jesus' words?

JJ:
Jesus did not say this and the Bible does not teach the perfection of God as espoused by the religions. I have talked about this at length in previous writings.

God is obviously lacking something or he would not create.

The widely accepted Course in Miracles makes this interesting statement: "How can he (God) enter, to rest and to remember, without you? Except you be there, he is not complete."

Without the union of God with man then even God is not complete, or in an imperfect state.

You never answered my question from my last post. Would you share with us your definition of truth so we can get a better idea of what you are attempting to communicate?

Use your imagination not to scare yourself to death but to inspire yourself to life. Adele Brookman