2004-4-27 06:51:00
Robert:
JJ says my analogy of the hypnotist is a feeble analogy dependent on ignorance and unsound conclusions. The analogy you created is full of fanciful elaboration and has a clever tone, but it lacks wisdom because it is not applicable.
How so? I will ask you a question. If you were walking down the street and a man politely attracted your attention and you stopped and he said, "Gentleman, ponder on this: today the sun is bright" Would you, JJ, think he was hypnotically implanting a thought in your mind?
JJ:
My friend. My analogy was very sound and you never pointed out any flaw in the correspondence, least of all this example. Having a casual conversation with a stranger is about a million miles away from an encounter with a hypnotic situation.
What causes a hypnotic situation? Lance said it very well:
"To hypnotize someone, anyone, all you need to do is bypass his or her Critical Faculty. This can be done by various methods that produce an altered state of mind. The most common everyday method is simply via a bond of trust. Once someone trusts someone else to the point that they `believe every word they say', they are then in a state of hypnosis and every time they receive some communication from this person, they allow it to enter directly into their subconscious bypassing their critical reasoning process."
Two things cause this to happen.
(1) The person relinquishes his "critical faculty" to a known hypnotist and places his trust in him for some predetermined result.
(2) A parent, guru or leader generates so much trust that the student yields all (or most) critical thinking in favor of the authoritative voice. Creme fits in this category in relation to his followers because he is seen as speaking the words and will of Christ. Who is going to argue with the Messiah?
Some stranger commenting on the brightness of the sun certainly does not carry the authority of Christ,
Robert:
Does the man become a hypnotist when you have full ability to reject the thought? Does the man become a hypnotist if you agree with the thought he presents?
JJ:
Under actual hypnosis the subject always thinks he has full power to reject the suggestion of the hypnotist at any time, but he will not if he is under a deep trance - not unless the suggestion is outrageous.
You think you merely agree with Creme, but I have seen no sign of independent thinking. If Creme thinks a certain way you seem to think likewise with no deviation, especially when he claims to speak for Christ.
Even though he was blatantly wrong on a number of predictions you hypnotically bypass this information as if it did not exist. It enters not into your critical thinking.
Robert:
The analogy of the hypnotist and his hypnotism fails because Creme does not manipulate anyone. The analogy fails because it is a belief that Creme is planting a thought by means of hypnotic suggestion.
JJ:
I am not saying that Creme is attempting to use hypnosis. I am saying that when a person allows another in a position of authority (especially one who speaks for God or Christ) to be an absolute authority, then he relinquishes his critical mind, just as a subject does with hypnosis.
I've seen this not only with Creme followers, but with many who adore a religious or group leader.
It could even happen with those I teach. This is why I bring up the subject of thinking for ourselves periodically and claim no authority behind my words. Who ever disagrees with me should not see themselves as opposing God, Christ or some master.
Robert:
There could be people who manipulate themselves into blindly believing everything Creme says - but I am not one of those possible people, nor does self-hypnosis mean Creme is a hypnotist.
JJ:
So what has Creme taught that has not yet been proven to be wrong with which you disagree? What has Maitreya said through him with which you disagree?
Robert:
The millions and millions of religious people who 'bypass their critical reasoning process' would fall into the category of the sleep state you ascribed to me. Is Christ a hypnotist because millions of people 'believe every word he says'?
JJ:
You are to blame if you believe anyone's words without critically thinking about them and running them by your soul. It doesn't matter if it appears to come from God himself.
Robert:
I have faith that Christ is alive, here, in the flesh and awaiting His reappearance at the soonest possible time. Remember, faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.
JJ:
Most Bailey readers and many Christians believe this. This is not a new message. Even the Mormons believe Christ is still in a physical body and can appear to whomever he wants.
Robert:
Therefore, my purpose becomes evident when I know that there are reasonable, intelligent people on this list who happen to misunderstand what Benjamin Creme speaks, a misunderstanding based on lack of knowledge and information.
JJ:
Your problem here is that they do understand. More information here will not help your cause.
Robert:
But when people misunderstand what Creme speaks because a crystallized belief holds their mind captive - I can do very little, if anything, about their conditioned state.
JJ:
You've mentioned this crystallization several times. When I first heard of Creme in the early 80's I bought his book. I have the first edition of "The Reappearance of the Christ and the Masters of Wisdom." I read the book, I later attended a lecture and contemned to monitor his teachings.
I've done a similar investigation with most every other major movement. They all have the idea that I just haven't read or studied enough. Instead of reading one or two books and attending several classes I am supposed to read every single book and go to every class and lecture.
No one can humanly do this. You do not have to read every single book someone writes to have enough to make a judgment.
Have you read the Book of Mormon? Maybe you are missing something.
Have you read Paul Twitchell's works from Ekankar? How about Elizabeth Claire Prophet? Have you read the Immortal? By your standards if you have not thoroughly checked them out you are crystallizing.
Robert:
Today, Lucis Trust is a sufficient example when it comes to crystallization. Many people involved with Lucis Trust reject what Creme speaks because of one explanation or many.
JJ:
Because someone rejects something that does not make sense does not indicate crystallization.
Robert:
The point being: there are people who tend to see the glamours and the illusions in Creme's group as Creme's glamours and illusions.
JJ:
It's Creme's actual teachings we have checked out. Not the flaws of the followers.
Robert:
Thus, if you see Creme as glamoured - could it not be the glamour surrounding him, around the periphery, that you recognize?
JJ:
No. I never met a Creme follower when I reached my first conclusion about him.
Robert:
Is it your soul granting you the authority to tell me that I am in a trance-sleep state and to explain my experience as illusion? Is it your soul who seeks to discredit, deny and demean my reality?
JJ:
My soul tells me you have great potential which could be wasted if you do not take your next step. I am guided to shake you for a moment and then step back and observe and be ready to extend the arm of fellowship. I give you a 30-70 percent chance short term but a 70-30 percent long term. A 30% chance is worth fighting for.
Let me clarify an important point. I am not saying that all of Creme's teachings are false. Much of what he says has truth in it, especially his teachings using the Bailey material for a base.
Where I see a lack of evidence is in his claim that Christ is speaking through him. You would think that Christ could plan a couple months ahead and make the plan materialize, but according to Creme he has failed in this four or more times. Can you not see this does not make sense?
But above this my soul does not confirm this message from Creme. There is no "flashing forth" in the intuitive mind when Creme speaks on behalf of Maitreya.
I think he does have a good mind and sometimes he comes up with an interesting twist on the Bailey material, but consider this. If Creme did not have this fabulous claim that Christ was speaking to him would anyone listen to him?
Suppose it was not Christ who speaks through him but someone else. When his followers then hear words they think are from their Lord there will be no questioning, but a willingness to please and to follow at all costs. This is a dangerous situation, a breeding ground for Kool Aide drinking and riding the Hale Bop comet. One must look carefully and get soul confirmation before he leaps.
Always behave like a duck -- keep calm and unruffled on the surface but paddle like the devil underneath. Jacob Braude
Copyright 2004 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved