I know many old timers do not want to discuss Benjamin Creme again, but we have a new member who I think shows some good potential and I would like to share some thoughts with him. I do not plan on taking much more time on this subject.
Whether Creme is a so-called prophet (your word), I do not care to indulge in a semantical debate. Although it would be wise to consider everything Creme speaks as a hypothesis, before denying and disbelieving his words. I ask - are you crystallized in your beliefs when it comes to Creme? Has your mind been made when it comes to believing him to be a so-called false prophet? A gentle gust of wind cannot move a heavy, stubborn rock.
I could turn this around. Are you crystallized because you disbelieve my words and do not even consider that Creme is representing something else besides the Spiritual Hierarchy?
Are you crystallized because you do not accept Sally of Detroit's channelings from Zor of Zurkin II declaring that the world will enter the 5th dimension next week?
Using the discerning qualities of the mind to weigh the facts and come to logical conclusions is more the mark of one who has not crystallized rather than one who has.
Perhaps we should soon talk about the principle of crystallization and exactly what it is.
The conclusions I have reached on Creme have been through study of his materials and the use of such discernment in connection with the sensing of spiritual vibration.
If I were crystallized I would not have read his writings to discover whether or not they are true.
I do not disbelieve that you heard Creme speak in 1988 that the Christ will be seen on television, but I cannot believe it either.
I do not understand why you cannot believe it. Do you really consider that I would have just made it up?
So, for me, your point is moot. I can only validate my experience and my knowledge and my understanding. If you believe Creme has lied to you, should that cancel out the intuitive response to what I have heard and read? JJ, brother! The story your tell will not be the authority of truth.
This does not make sense. This would mean it would be worthless to study history, the scriptures, Bailey material, or even Creme's revelations because they are not linked to your direct experience. The mind can discern much truth by reading and considering the accounts of others. To dismiss the factual account I give because it does not agree with a preconceived notion is strange indeed for a seeker.
When I relate what I saw and heard it should have much more credibility than a statement of some belief in a theory or doctrine.
As far the so-called prophecies, they were given to Creme by a close associate of Maitreya during the late 80s. I do not want to make any mistakes, so in the coming days I will attempt to obtain the exact writings of those predictions. I've read them before and they are quite curious. Maitreya never meant for them to be so-called prophecies, they were more like statements he made from observing the law of cause and effect.
I do not think so. Creme came to Boise and I attended his lecture. I had already read a book or two that he had written - not in the name of an associate of Maitreya, but Maitreya himself. When Creme spoke to us and talked about the Maitreya messages he made no mention of receiving them from this associate you mention. In fact he demonstrated how he received his revelations by going into a meditative state where he stated that he would be overshadowed - not by some acolyte - but by Maitreya himself. It was around this period of his lecture that he stated that in April of that year (I believe it was 1987 or 88) a few months from the lecture that Maitreya would appear on worldwide television and announce himself. At that moment every person on the earth would experience a oneness with him and realize that Christ had come again.
I was quite amazed at such a black and white prediction, but attempted to analyze it objectively.
I could find many reasons to disbelieve such a prediction and none to believe it.
I rejected the prediction for the following reasons.
(1) I had knowledge that Christ would not come until some time after the turn of the millennium. This was too soon for him to appear.
(2) I had read most of Creme's material he had published to that date and received no soul confirmation on them.
(3) To cause every person on the earth to accept Maitreya, even the born- againers would involve the use of force on the human will. This is contrary to the methods used by the real Christ. He always works with free will to the maximum possible.
(4) Creme's teachings that were supposed to come from the Christ revealed no new principles. The Christ of the Bible taught around a principle in almost every sentence we have of his dialog. DK revealed much new light and amplification of principles. I can find little or no new light in Cremes writings.
Can you find anything that is not just unverifiable data? So far no Creme follower has been able to give us even one piece of new light.
(5) I sensed a strong sense of glamour around him. To check my observation I wet up to him after the meeting and asked for a sample of his handwriting. He gave it to me rather reluctantly. My long experience in handwriting revealed that Creme's glamours were exactly as I had ascertained by watching him.
Concerning your comments on Creme's statement that the real Saddam is dead and the one caught is a double I will add this. I found Glenys' finding that his wife thinks the captured Saddam is a double to be interesting and it is remotely possible that this is true.
Overall, it does not make sense because of the following reasons:
(1) If the military were to deceive us why would they want to present a fraud to the world and even allow his wife to visit?
(2) If he was killed earlier it would have been advantageous for the military to merely announce he was killed so they wouldn't have to deal with a live person, relatives, a trial etc.
(3) DNA analysis revealed it was Saddam. Now it is remotely possible there was fraud or a mistake here, especially if the double were a relative and had similar DNA.
(4) Dozens of people close to Saddam met with him after the capture and none questioned that it was really him.
(5) None of his daughters have questioned that the prisoner is not Saddam Hussein. One of them did think he was drugged to mellow him out. This is believable.
(6) It would be incredibly stupid to purposefully proclaim a double was the real Saddam. Any intelligent person would have to realize that such a fraud would come unraveled and would destroy the Bush administration.
I haven't received any revelation on this matter but I would give a 95% chance that we have the real Saddam. On the off chance the captured one is a double I would guess it started with an honest mistake that turned into a cover-up by the military and Bush doesn't even know the truth of the matter. Then too it is possible that the double is a relative with a close DNA match and even the military is deceived.
(7) The anti Bush media here and in Europe has not picked up on the double story. If there was any hard evidence they would be on it.
You are correct that Creme had indicated that Dennis Kucinich had a good chance of capturing the presidency - but you are forgetting or neglecting a specific part of what Creme has said, which is - if Kucinich was nominated as the democratic candidate. Quote in context my friend : )
I didn't quote and my statement is accurate. Here's an exact quote from the last Creme follower on the list:
"Creme has said that the Hierarchy supports Kucinich, that Kucinich is the only presidential candidate who is receptive to the mental impressions from the Hierarchy. Creme has also said if Kucinich gets on the bill as the Democratic presidential candidate, he will become President."
The fact that Creme talked about the possibility that Kucinich could actually get the nomination, let alone "become president" shows a great error in judgment. Thank God the real Hierarchy are smarter than this. Thank God I am smarter than this. From the first time I heard his Kucinich's name and felt the vibration around it, even before I saw and heard him I sensed that he had no chance.
I take it back there is a one in a million chance. Here is a possible scenario.
John Kerry's botox (which he says does not exist) bursts, casing a temporary obstruction of vision. He slips on a glossy anti Bush flyer, falls on his head and sinks into a comma.
John Edwards and Howard Dean rush to an emergency meeting where Democrats are trying to decide who to back. Their cars run head on into each other and both die.
Joe Lieberman eats a piece of bad ham and becomes comatose.
Al Sharpton storms into the meeting and demands support for the nomination. Sheila Jackson Leigh feels that Sharpton has steamrolled over her and grabs him by the neck and strangles him. She is then hauled off to jail.
Clark Gets amnesia and can't remember his name.
Hillary actually keeps he word and decides to serve out her senate term.
Kucinich alone enters the meeting and as he approaches the committee he steps on a bare power cord and electricity shoots through his body lighting him up. The committee sees this as a sign from God and the Democrats back him to the Convention.
After the convention two days before the election it is revealed that Bush killed JFK. The public is so outraged that they vote for Kucinich in protest and he wins.
Ahh, well, the Kucinich true believers can always dream.
As a side note, we have been given the information that the Hierarchy is supporting and throwing the weight of their assistance behind the democratic candidate - even though it's not Dennis Kucinich.
Creme's Hierarchy, perhaps. The real one merely teaches correct principles and let's us decide for ourselves. There are disciples in both parties and the Hierarchy isn't telling half the disciples to switch parties.
I've read in the archives why you believe Creme is a Communist and his support of enforced sharing. Is the source of this information to be trusted?
It's supposed to be Creme's own words as revealed by Sean David Morton. He has written quite a bit and I've seen no evidence of him being an outright fabricator.
Here is part of an interview with Sean David Morton written in 1994:
The ultimate purpose, according to Creme, and I quote, is to "Give over all of your power and energy to the Masters so that they can use it as they please, to facilitate global change." Someone has something backwards here! Spiritual Masters are suppose to reflect the Light of God and the Creation through themselves down TO US, not the other way round. And what do these "Masters" need with all our energy? To quote the now deceased Capt. James T. Kirk, "Excuse me! What does God need with a Starship?" As Creme and I spoke, he began to lay out his global philosophy. His anger was clearly directed primarily at America. He felt that all of Western Civilization should be destroyed and dismantled so that the wealth, mostly of America, could then be "re-distributed" to feed the starving huddled masses of the world. "By what means?" I asked. "They must come to a place of consciousness for it to take place." he answered. "And if they refuse to do it willingly?" I asked slowly. "Then it should be done by force, if necessary!" "That," I replied cautiously, truly wanting to hear what he had to say, "sounds like Communism." "And what's wrong with Communism?" he retorted. "Are you a Communist?" I asked. "Young man, I have been a card carrying Communist for 32 years!" The plot thickens. "Have you ever been to Moscow, or studied there? "Many times!" he said with pride.
I asked the last Creme disciple who did not accept this to merely ask Creme if the quote are accurate and if he is a Communist, but he refused. You ought to write him a letter or call; him and ask him if he is or has been as card-carrying communist and if the above is quoted accurately and reflects his views.
I've read the interview and I do not put my faith into the honesty of the interviewer. The tone of fear colours the entire article. Whether Creme is a 'card-carrying member of the Communist Party' is a relative, personal attribute. The actual life that Benjamin Creme lives should be evaluated. However, that was not me confirming that he is a member of the Communist Party. I have no idea - and whether he is or not - is a superficial statistic. The man is 82 years old and still steadily doing his work.
What concerns me more than being a communist was this statement: "And if they refuse to do it willingly?" I asked slowly. "Then it should be done by force, if necessary!"
It appears that Creme believes in dismantling America through old style Soviet style tyrannical force.
That's not the Hierarchy I'm associated with.
Does such philosophy not concern you? You seem to be a reasonable young man. Could this be your blind spot?
The pity is that one of us is more right and the other less right. Time will tell - time will solidify the fact.
Time has already spoken on many of Cremes predictions and teachings. I'd say that at least 90% of the times time has spoken, it has spoken against him.
The fact that what Creme speaks is true and that he is in contact with a Master of Wisdom and has been willingly working for the reappearance under direct inspiration from the Hierarchy - or the fact that Benjamin Creme is not and has not.
It would be sad indeed if the Hierarchy cannot see the future as well as I can - or Glenys can, or Larry can...
All in all, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs - the glory of free will! The modest suggestion that I make is that you become aware of all the good that Benjamin Creme has done and continues to do, if you are not already aware.
I have followed Creme for almost 20 years. I read his first book and have checked out his new teachings from time to time. So far I have not been able to find one enlightened statement from the man. Can you give us even one good paragraph that turns on a light?
Let me put it this way. Open any Alice A. Bailey book dictated by DK and read a paragraph at random. Then try and find one paragraph by Creme or his Master which is equal to it.
The work is One.
It is indeed, but there is a dark Hierarchy opposed to the one work and workers many levels down are trapped by their illusions. I feel impressed to make an effort to awaken you to find the real power of the soul and let it guide you through the Creme maze to the feet of the real Master of Light and Love. There is more awaiting you than you have imagined.
I sense a person with great potential in you, more than any Creme follower (co-worker or whatever) I have met and hope we can eventually see as one.
The greatest mistake is trying to be more agreeable than you can be. --Walter Bagehot
Copyright 2004 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved