2003-9-21 06:07:00
I'll try and catch up on some of the questions the group has asked.
Keith writes:
J.J wrote the following, ..."The fourth initiation is called "The Great Renunciation." And was passed in the Garden of Gethsemane by Jesus and finished off with the follow through on the cross...
"The above statement puts a different twist on the Garden of Gethsemane for me. I was under the impression that the Christ made contact with Shamballa during his trials in Gethsemane. The whole Gethsemane experience was a trial for the Christ, not Jesus.
JJ:
Actually, this is clearly written about by DK. In the garden there was not one, but two entities going through initiation. Jesus passing his fourth and the Christ was contacting Shamballa and working through the sixth initiation of Decision.
The cross was more of an anticlimax in the initiation process.
Larry:
One has to also ask one's self what did Jesus do after he ascended into heaven per the testimony of the apostles?
JJ:
First, let me say that I hope you had a good weekend Larry.
It was the Christ who demonstrated the ascension. This was a demonstration that the sixth initiation had been passed. Sometimes the sixth initiation is called Ascension.
Larry:
JJ teaches that the Apostle Paul met his "dweller" on the road to Damascus and that is what blinded him. I simply don't believe that is exactly correct. Here is the story from Acts in the New Testament:
"And as he [Paul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." - Acts 9:3-5 (KJV)
JJ:
The verse you quote was not his encounter with the dweller, but with the Christ as you say. In esoteric writings this is called the encounter with "the angel of the presence."
The encounter with the dweller comes before this.
Here is my take. You can run it by your own souls.
Paul was a sincere student, studying very deeply everything he could get his hands on. He had passed the first and second initiations and was fairly well advanced on the spiritual path, but had some illusions that tricked him into thinking that the destruction of the new Christian religion would preserve his own. As he went about doing this and encountering real people of faith that were imprisoned or destroyed by his support he began to have misgivings. A part of him began to search his soul and another part tried to ignore the problem.
But that something gnawing at his soul began to grow and, as he reflected upon it, he asked God about the Christians - just to make sure he was taking the correct path. When he called out to God he was struck down by his dweller. As he struggled with his dweller he concluded that this was some kind of devil force actually caused by the Christians and attempted to persecute them all the more. If he destroyed them then maybe the devil would go away.
In this seemingly possessed state he was headed toward Damascus where he met his Lord.
The contrast of his deception by his Dweller with his new realization caused him to go blind until his miraculous healing.
Larry:
I don't think that JJ has every explicitly said the masters would ever tell a "white lie."
JJ:
You are correct Larry. In fact I have taught several times that one of the keys to liberation is honesty and to again the ability to always abide by our word. I attempt to set that example myself.
The higher lives do have to keep some information from us, however, which could either be dangerous or misleading. Parents are not lying (if done right) when they do not tell a four year old about sex. Even so, we are babes in some ways unprepared for many higher teachings.
Larry:
His actual knowledge of esoteric literature is pretty impressive. At first perhaps we think that this is all his original ideas. If we research some we find out that is not the case. Apparently a lot comes from AAB/DK. That is the part that I am currently struggling with. How much credibility should I give it? I haven't decided yet.
JJ:
I thought I would make some clarifications here as some, when they begin reading the Alice A. Bailey material, think "A-hah. He just studies this stuff and gives it to us as his own." I'm not saying this applies to you Larry, but I know some have felt that way in the past.
First, let me say that it is impossible for any teacher to put forth anything of value without building on a foundation of teachings past to some degree. This even applies to the words of Christ in the New Testament. Quite a few of them are quotes directly from the Old Testament. Then too many of the other teachings were also espoused by numerous teachers in the past not related to Israel.
Does this mean that Jesus was not original?
By no means. When he quoted from the past he shed new light on that which was old. And even though many past teachers taught about love and eternal life, Jesus took the principle to a new dimension of understanding the world had never heard or witnessed.
Even so, I do quote teachers past, but when I am merely presenting their exact teachings or quotes I usually give references. DK is well known for his teachings on the rays and initiations and when I refer to them I assume the student will realize that most of the basic knowledge on these two concepts was revealed by him. Even here I have introduced a number of teachings not covered by him.
We have been talking about the Alice A. Bailey material quite a bit lately, but if you take an overview of my writings you'll find that many of them cover ideas and principles not elaborated on in the Bailey or any other material.
Consider my books beginning with The three Immortal books. Probably less than 10% of the teachings in there are touched upon in the writings of DK.
Then look at my other books such as The Molecular Relationship. DK hinted at the principle, but never explained it to the extent that any reader has discovered it there before reading my book. The Bible gives more hints on this than does DK. Joseph Smith's teachings also hinted at it, but it took a revelation through the Oneness Principle before I understood it and could write about it.
Next look at my book - The Gathering of Lights. Again DK hints at this principle, but the scriptures talk much more about it than he or any other esoteric writings.
But even here, the understanding of it by the world is so slight that it is barely mentioned by standard Christian writings. The Mormons attempted to practice it at one time, but none of them explained the principle behind it.
Another book I have written is called The Gods of the Bible. Very little of DK is mentioned here, but the basic esoteric teachings concerning God is taught from the Bible in a way not presented before.
Then we have the Keys writings which is a mixture of many concepts and principles. As I have taught the group here I have tried to give credit where I am merely repeating a teaching from the past. If I do not give credit I assume the reader knows where the idea comes from. For instance, if I say, "the truth shall make you free" I may assume that the reader knows this famous quote came from Jesus. If I write about the rays and initiations I assume you know that DK laid out the foundation teachings on them.
In the process of teaching it often happens that I take an idea from the past and add new light and teachings to it. When this happens it would be untrue to just categorically state that I received it from DK or some other teacher. It would also be a distraction to stop every few paragraphs and relate the sentences that have been covered by teachers past and the new ones covered by me.
Astute students of DK or the Bible can usually discern where I leave off from past teachings and plunge into the new.
Overall, if you look through the archives it will be difficult to find one major post (including this one) that does not present new material not covered the same way by any teacher in the past. (Note the example of Paul and the Dweller for instance in this post).
I say these things not to glorify myself, but to glorify the One Spirit of God that works through the many creating the Oneness Principle that is available to all who will seek.
As someone pointed out though it is important to run my teachings as well as others through your own souls, for non teacher is without error.
Steve Gage asks:
Have you ever heard of "Recurrence"? The idea that at death one returns to the beginning of ones life and relives it over and over? There is SOME evidence that this may be the case.
Does this have any place in your teachings?
JJ:
This idea comes from a misunderstanding of the devachan. The devachan is a place of bliss, called heaven by some, which is a final resting place (between lives) of good worthy people who are above average spiritually, but have not overcome illusion.
The concept of the Devachan was elaborated on quite a bit by the Theosophical Society and its teachers and mentioned a number of times by DK.
The basic idea is this. When we die we leave this world with many unfulfilled desires and goals. As a reward for those who have lived a good life they are sent to the devachan which is basically a dream state, but one in which the dreams are as real as life on earth.
In the devachan the person can then fulfil his dreams. If he wanted to be a great ball player here on earth and was not able to he will be one there. He will be greater than Babe Ruth and will hear the cheers of adoring fans to his heart's content as he hits the ball out of the park.
Even though the devachan is a much more pleasant place than the lower worlds, it is still a place of illusion that must be transcended by the initiate. The third degree initiate can pass through devachan at will because he has learned to see through illusion. The fourth degree initiate is not even tempted by it because he has made the great sacrifice and the desire world has no attraction to him.
We may live some parts of our life over in devachan, but only if this is our desire.
Devachan may explain why Houdini was never able to contact the earth after his death. If he went to devachan he probably dreamed that he made the contact, thought it was real, but in reality the contact was never made.
Devachan is hinted at in the Bible where it says
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." Rev 14:13
The teaching of devachan is that our works do follow us and we can continue our labors of love.
These are not useless labors for they sharpen our skills and prepare us to do better in our next life.
That's about all I have energy for this evening.
I xeroxed my watch. Now I have time to spare. Steven Wright
Copyright 2003 by J.J. Dewey, All Rights Reserved