Liberations

2003-9-19 06:07:00

Larry writes:
I am not convinced that what you are teaching here is consistent with your other teachings. For example consider the following that you have taught in regards to a "permanent atom" (which AAB/DK also teaches):

"If you have lived 600 lives, for instance, you would have a chain of 600 permanent atoms within you that interplay to create body number 601. Until you reach the point of liberation, however, you will not have the power to recreate your old bodies at will. When you do reach "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" you then gain access to all past permanent atoms and have power to activate them and create a body at will." (The Purpose of the Body)

In other words once one has achieved the "point of liberation" which I am understanding as having achieved "masterhood" you don't have to reincarnate - you are freed from the cycle of death and rebirth. It may be the case that you will take higher "initiations" and continue to grow, but you won't have to incarnate again unless you choose to do so.

Are there any indications in the scriptures that Jesus had in fact achieved that "point of liberation" after the Resurrection, and have you in fact taught precisely that? Yes, you have (quoting from the following paragraph from the same post in the archives as quoted above):

"This explains the story in the 24th chapter of Luke, where Jesus visited disciples who were old friends, but did not recognize Him. They did not recognize him because He appeared in a body from a past life."

Thus by your own teaching Jesus had reached the "point of liberation" and didn't need to reincarnate again. This seems to me to be in blunt contradiction to your teaching now that Jesus had to go for one more life as Apollonius to reach that point.

JJ:
Because we had two entities involved in the life of Christ, (one being the disciple Jesus and the other being the Christ) it makes it awkward in writing to sometimes distinguish between the two. In the case of Luke 24:13-32 the I believe the Master who appeared was Christ and not Jesus. Technically I should have written the Christ.

After the resurrection the Christ did not just go away, but could create a vehicle at will to assist where necessary in initiating the great work. He also worked with Jesus more through overshadowing than divine possession and assisted him. You'll note in the story in Luke that this entity did not say who he was. But merely testified to the resurrection.

There are degrees of liberation. Jesus attained one degree and the Christ a higher one. As far as incarnations go liberation comes in stages.

First Stage: The pre-initiate Before the first initiation the pilgrim has little choice as to whether or when he can incarnate. This is controlled by karma, group forces, his solar angel and a council of Elder Brethren.

Second Stage: First and Second Degree Initiates. These individuals have worked off a lot of karma and are beginning to understand cyclic and other forces. Between lives they have power to influence their next birth situation. They have some control, but not full control of their incarnations.

Third Stage: Third Initiation Here he becomes a dedicated server and gains ability to choose situations for rebirth where he can make the best use of his talents. He is still subject to the law of cycles.

Fourth Stage: Fourth Initiation He gains freedom from the standard cycles of rebirth and changes of male female energy and works through a higher level of cycles and plans his future lives.

Note: Jesus was a fourth degree initiate, but was brought back to life by the Christ.

Fifth Stage: Fifth Initiation Here he becomes a master and gains power to renew his physical body so he does not have to die or reincarnate until he desires. When he decides he can let his body go and choose to incarnate again for either the sake of service or in preparation for higher initiation.

Sixth Stage: Sixth and seventh Initiation Here he gains the freedom to not incarnate again if he so desires. He can serve in either of three ways to finish his earth service. (1) He can choose to incarnate. Or (2) He can overshadow disciples and do his work for humanity through them. (3) He can create a temporary body of manifestation by his thought and work among humanity or appear to disciples.

Larry asks:
1. Does the AAB/DK statement re Jesus reincarnating as Apollonius of Tyana makes sense.

JJ:
I see several possibilities where it does make sense, but have not yet solved the mystery behind it so cannot positively give you the details.

Larry:
2. And is it consistent with your teachings.

JJ:
The possibilities I gave out where it could be true are consistent with my teachings.

My roommate got a pet elephant. Then it got lost. It's in the apartment somewhere. Steven Wright