Sun Aft. Gathering Part 3

2002-7-7 04:46:00

Sunday May 26, 2002
The Gathering Principle Continued

What's the purpose of the gathering? There are several objections to the gathering. The number one objection is stay where you are and make things better there. What would've happened if the people who came to America listened to the advice of their relatives who said, "Stay where you are in England. It's pretty good here. Reform the Church here rather than go to this silly America." If Benjamin Franklin or Washington were never born here in America then the Constitution may have never been.

So these people, by gathering out and pooling their minds together came up with something better. What's interesting is after America was established, then England, the mother nation, began to reform itself after the pattern of our constitution. So now England has a fairly democratic government in relation to what it had before. So the mother state that oppressed their daughter winds up learning from the daughter. Thus it will be with the future gathering.

When the future gathering of lights happens there will be many innovative principles taught and installed. Then the rest of the world will look at it and the scripture says, 'The world will be so impressed that the kings and the great men of the earth shall "bring their gold and their silver and their wealth to Zion." Why will they bring it there? For the same reason that when America was established, many thought the streets were paved with gold and began to bring their wealth here. This was the land of opportunity. This was the land of tremendous growth.

When the next gathering takes place there will not only be spiritual opportunities but there will also be physical opportunity. There will be wealth created. There will be abundance in every possible way. People will see this abundance and the people of the world will say, "We want to do this too. We don't want to pay over half our money in taxes. Those people only pay a tithe over there. They only pay like 10%. We want to be like them. Everything is voluntary over there and people are taken care of through free will. They aren't forced to do good in this new gathering."

The greatest evil that's ever been created is when humanity has tried to force people to do good. That's why the Soviet Union fell apart. They spent all their energies trying to force everybody to do what was right. The system was created to force everybody to do what was right and their ideals weren't all that bad. Equality isn't all bad however they made it look so bad that some people today think that equality is bad because of their example.

The Soviet Union took ideals, like equality and sharing and tried to force them on people. True equality can only be obtained by free will. By taking an ideal of sharing, of equality, of equal rights and using force to attempt to attain them produces disaster and destruction. This is what the old Soviet Union was an example of. They took good ideals then they tried to force people into them and it just didn't work. It has to happen through free will and unfolding naturally.

A people who are fairly enlightened can be gathered out that will take care of each other without being forced to take care of each other. When you try to force people to take care of each other then nobody is taken care of and the spirit dies in the people. When you let people operate on their free will and you teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves then the spirit of freedom and the spirit of the Holy Spirit will flourish within the group. Then eventually Heaven and Earth will become as one.

All of the Hierarchy of Masters operates totally upon the principle of free will. They can decide to rebel anytime they wanted to. From Masters on up to the highest lives in the universe, all the Brotherhood of Light operates on free will.

The Dark Brothers, however, do not believe in the principle of free will. They believe that the system works a lot better if most intelligent among them bosses everyone else around and tells them what to do and they have to obey blindly. They think the less intelligent are not smart enough to think for themselves so they need to obey without thinking and are under the threat of severe punishment if they do not obey. So within the Dark Brothers a handful obtain freedom to boss everybody else around while the rest of them are not able to do any thinking for themselves but get whatever reward can be passed out.

So the basic difference between the Light and the Dark Brotherhoods is the principle of freedom. We see this being played out in the world today, in every government today and political parties. When you see an argument on TV it's always based between this: one is teaching a little towards free will while the other is teaching about the government or some power that should have more control. It always boils down to that argument between the two. One person wants free will and one person wants control.

Let's pick a simple issue so we can understand, like seat belts. They want more and more control over seat belts. An argument says, "It's good that we wear our seatbelts." Well, that's not the argument, whether it's good to wear seat belts. The argument is whether it's good to force people to wear seat belts.

Robin: Since we're leaving here tomorrow this is for those of you who are driving. Texas has a no tolerance policy for seat belts violation. If you get stopped because you don't have your seat belt on you will be ticketed on the spot.

JJ: What's the fine here?

Robin: I don't know.

JJ: In Idaho it's only a $5 fine so it's no big deal.

Audience: In Texas it's $200.

JJ: Really? No wonder seat belts are a big deal here. In Idaho they don't make a big deal over it because it's only 5 bucks. They're talking about moving that up. The do-gooders are always trying to force people to do good. If we spent that same energy in teaching people to buckle up they'd pretty much eventually do it on their own without being forced to. A certain amount of force has to be applied like in some cases. We have to prevent burglars from burglarizing our homes and people from murdering and raping and things like this but that's to enhance the freedom of the whole rather than to take away the freedom of the whole.

When any law takes away the freedom of the whole then that's a law that makes the Dark Brotherhood rejoice. Like prohibition; a lot of the religious people got together and said, "Alcohol creates a lot of problems so we're going to force people not to drink." So, maybe for certain alcoholics it would be good if they don't drink. The ideal maybe had some good behind it yet the force created tremendous evil. Remember who materialized because of it? Al Capone and people like him started to sprout up all over the country. People drank almost as much as ever. Even my dad created his own still. My dad made the best money he ever made during the prohibition.

So people drank almost as much as ever, it just cost them more. There was a lot of corruption and a lot of crime lords got a tremendous amount of power. Then when they did away with prohibition people figured everyone would go crazy. What happened? First if all people like Al Capone went out of business. The people did go crazy for about 6 months. They drank more than usual for this period. They really jumped into it. After about a year it normalized and they didn't drink any more than they did before, per capita, after the initial spurt of having the freedom again.

You know I never drank Coke in my life until they took it away. Then I decided I wanted it. I thought if people were making such a big fuss over Coke maybe it was better than I thought. I had tasted it several times but didn't like it that much but as soon as they brought it back I started drinking it and it tasted really good because they wouldn't let me have it for awhile. Now I like Coke better than Pepsi. Before that I like Pepsi better than Coke. It had a psychological effect on me because I couldn't have it.

So the principle that the gathered lights will always apply is maximum freedom for the whole. The only time any freedom is taken away from the individual is when it increases the freedom for the whole. Like I say, we take away the burglar's freedom because the burglar takes away the freedom of the whole so by taking away the burglar's freedom we increase the freedom for the whole. The principle involved with freedom is the wholeness aspect; maximum freedom for the whole. The seat belt law is a simple little thing but it's totally unnecessary to have a $200 fine for a seat belt infraction. It may force us to buckle up but on the other hand it creates big brother telling us what to do with outward authority over our lives.

What we need to develop is power to have our own personal freedom and do what is right because we decide to do what is right. We do right because we see what is right; to help our fellow man because we want to help our fellow man. By doing these things we can enhance the flow of the energy of God because the energy of the Holy Spirit operates on total freedom.

Where freedom is taken away, the Holy Spirit does not flow. People have gone to very oppressed nations and visited them, particularly Russia when it was totalitarian and was in full power-it's a lot better now than it was-but when people have gone and visited these oppressed nations, people look depressed, they don't talk to each other, there is no flow of ideas. They're afraid that somebody will report what they've said. They're afraid all the time. There is a spirit of fear. They're doing what's right maybe, according to the state, but they have no freedom.

The greatest evil is always generated when people are forced to do what is right. The force to do what is right has so much power behind it because they say, "We need to create a law to make this happen." People say, "That would be good. Let's go ahead a do it." They don't even think about the principle of freedom involved. They never argue the principle of freedom. When our legislators are talking about passing laws, they never think they're taking away freedom. The argument is always over making people do what's right. If they would only argue over what would bring the maximum freedom, then maximum freedom would be generated. How can we make the law so freedom will not be infringed, freedom of the whole will be amplified rather than held back? There are, like I said, a small handful of laws for robberies and rapes and murders and these types of laws, are good for people but there are so many laws that infringe freedom.

The principle of freedom applies to a lot of things, even teachers, such as myself. If a teacher such as myself didn't believe in the principle of freedom then he would attempt to set himself up as an authority over a group to control them. Remember Jim Jones? He set himself as such an authority over the group and when he told them to drink poison Kool-Aid; what did they do? Most didn't even question. The few who did question were shot by people who were blind followers. You either drink the Kool-Aid or you get shot. So the Jim Jones type of character, even though the people could leave at any time they wanted, they were under such control that they didn't question. This is how it is in many organizations throughout the Earth, many secret organizations, many churches. The people do not ask. When they're told something they do not ask, "Is this right? Is this what I should do?"

James: What you're speaking of is a pseudo-free will environment that's undermined by a background of control. Your concept about an environment that has freedom for the whole almost implies that there is a mechanism in place where the people learned the principles so that they can understand this. If we just say, for example, that we do away with the laws and have this freedom for the whole environment, without understanding the principles, people would just kind of doing their own thing. You'd be leading a horse to water but they'd all drink what they want to drink. So I'd like you to maybe expand on that part about putting some type of mechanism in place that would make the freedom for the whole effective.

JJ: The main mechanism for making the freedom of the whole effective is each person gathering at a certain stage of consciousness. A person cannot recognize the difference between freedom and slavery until he reaches a certain stage of consciousness. So we have to spread the Holy Spirit by taking upon ourselves the name of Christ and lifting others up to where we are in our understanding so that they can see what is free and what is not free.

The trouble is, like the legislators in attempting to pass a law will say, "This law is good because it will make people do good." They don't understand. They are actually thinking it will bring more freedom when it will bring less freedom. They passed the seat belt law, for instance, to give them freedom from having accidents or freedom from being killed if they have an accident. Is that a freedom? They see it as a freedom. They don't see where the freedom really lies. The freedom lies in the choice. There is no choice involved after the law is passed. We must have the freedom to decide what is right.

I have the freedom at any time to drink the Drano under my sink. Because I have this freedom why doesn't somebody come along and say, "We need to make a law to prevent people from drinking Drano." (laughter) The reason why is because people see it's stupid to drink Drano so they just won't drink it. The same thing with all the laws perpetrated to do good, we just need to raise our consciousness up then we can say, "It's silly to do this so I'm not going to do it." You don't need a law once you see it's silly to not drink Drano. Do you need a law telling you to breathe? Do you need a law telling you to eat? You might need a law telling not to eat too many Big Macs but we don't want that because it infringes on our freedom. We may want to eat Big Macs. We may want that freedom even though it may not be the best food for us.

The principle of freedom is very subtle because every time it's argued-and this is where the Dark Bothers work actively in the affairs of man-they will plant the idea in peoples' minds that they are working for freedom. You'll see this argument where people are talking about taking away our freedoms in the name of freedom. They say this seat belt law will give us more freedom from accidents.

Audience: One thing I've noticed with all laws like that is that they don't ever prevent the thing they're claiming. Ever. It always happens because people still have the agency to choose. It's whether or not they get caught breaking the law.

JJ: It's just like prohibition. Prohibition accomplished a lot more harm than good. There are a lot of laws that do the same thing as prohibition. Like these laws, reforming campaign contribution laws.

Remember McCain/Feingold passed a big package to reform campaign contributions? Already they're finding a bunch of loopholes in it so they're going to get around it. So now McCain has said, "That was just a first step. Now we need to go another step." When they get the other step they'll say it's still not working and want to go another step. Pretty soon we may not have any way to contribute money to help elect the people we want elected.

Larry: As one guy who claims freedom and stands for freedom we have to understand and tolerate that when we first do it there is going to be some people that aren't going to help support the poor or the elderly. The argument will be made, "Well, they're not sharing the burden and we need to force them to come along." But we have to have the faith that our example, in time, that if we were to show them that this is a better way, and tolerate the fact that they might not do all the best things at first when we have freedom.

JJ: That's a good point. When the Soviet Union collapsed, what happened? These people were not used to working and being self-sufficient. They were used to the government telling them what to do then doing it even though it didn't work. But they went broke doing that. After they went broke and they were given a little freedom a lot of people sat around waiting for somebody to tell them what to do.

Everybody was waiting around for somebody to tell them what to do and maybe about 10% of the Soviet people liked the idea of freedom and were actually doing something. Another 10% started the Russian Mafia and that created a lot of problems. So what happened about a year into their freedom was a lot of Soviet people were saying, "We need to go back to the way it was before. It wasn't that great but it was a lot better than it is now. We've got this Russian mafia over here. Nobody is doing anything. Nobody is telling anybody what to do. Nobody knows what to do. Nobody knows how to operate this capitalistic system."

One guy rose up teaching that they needed to go back and create the Soviet empire even stronger than it was before. He was even talking about invading Alaska and nuking Japan. This new guy got about a third of the votes. I can't remember what his name was but he was a sort of scary character. (Note: his name is Vladimir Zhirinovsky) I haven't heard anymore about him. What happened to him?

Zofia: He's still around.

JJ: Is anybody listening to him now?

Zofia: Yes.

JJ: Not as much as they were though, are they?

Zofia: No, not as much. Thank God.

JJ: Right. So, it was kind of iffy there for awhile because when they were given their freedom it just didn't seem to work at first. Now it's starting to work and Russia is actually headed toward more freedom than the United States has. They're now down to a flat tax of; I believe it's about 13%, isn't it? Before this they were trying to tax people over 50% and it wasn't working. They reduced the tax to 13% and because the people feel it's fair they're actually paying it and not trying to escape it. Russia is now getting a lot more revenue in at 13% than they were getting at 50% before. The people have more freedom and they're headed the right direction. This Hitler-type character that we were talking about is now losing power. Nobody is listening to him as much because they're making progress now.

Zofia: Already 10 years (in Poland) that people are electing government would not read and do not know what to do. They're worse and worse. Every government is worse. There is no work. So many people are much poorer than they've ever been and they say, "Let's go back to the Socialism like we had before, like a form of communist because we didn't have too much but at least we had some."

JJ: So they're still thinking about going back to Communism in Poland?

Zofia: Yea but I don't think it's going to happen. It never happens, to go back. It's going to be a different form.

JJ: Are they making a little progress in Poland now?

Zofia: Yes, it will take about 10 more years to go.

JJ: Unless there is a big retrogression, we're going to find these former communist nations are going to wind up being richer than us in 20 or 30 years and we're going to be copying them. That will be great, won't it? As a matter of fact, if Russia continues the flat tax, maybe we ought to move over there. (chuckle) We could sell everything we have and go invest over there.

Audience: Inaudible.

JJ: However, the thing to keep in mind, whether the person represents the light or the dark, they always attempt to look like they're doing good. The Dark Brothers are more successful at creating the appearance of doing good than the Brothers of Light are because the Brothers of Light are not always accepted by the press and the powers that be that publicize and promote. So the powers that be will often distort the teachings of the Brotherhood of Light so they're not presented the way they were intended whereas they will take objectives of the Dark Brotherhood and try to present them as if they are the good guys. A lot of the press, even during the days of Soviet Union, presented the Soviet Union like they had a pretty good system. The press was pretty favorable, more favorable towards it than the Soviet people themselves were.

Zofia: . . .President Ford was in Poland and at that time Poland was still oppressed with Communism. I almost fainted when I came back and I heard that President Ford was saying things like that on television. "Poland is a free country. I've been here and there and everywhere." Of course they show whatever it is they want to show. I listen and I think, "Are you dumb or what? What did you expect to see?"

JJ: President Ford actually said that?

Zofia: Yes. He did.

JJ: It's amazing.

Elly: I say that anyone who is deceived it's because they are not listening. They are not listening and obeying the Spirit that is within them. If they are walking in truth they should hear truth. If a billion people say that this man is wrong but in your heart and in your spirit it's right, then you have to be open to truth. If it is not true, ask the spirit of truth to reveal truth to you and He will. I know sometimes I hear a very spineless man. I just heard of Lord, what's his name, Maitreya. I had heard of him several years ago. A friend of mine, He had come to her three times. He came to her husband three times just recently and told him he needed to be more humble and that's good but the Spirit of God rose up in me so mightily and said that this spirit-I'm not saying all spirits of Maitreya-but this one was a false Christ. We have absolutely, every one of you, it's vital that we hear the Spirit of God within ourselves and we obey that spirit. It's hard to come against the way most people believe but we have to do that.

JJ: The interesting thing is both sides, the Light and the Dark Brotherhood, both believe they're doing the best. They both believe in doing good but they believe in doing good by different methods. The Dark Brotherhood wants to do good by forcing people to do good. The Light Brotherhood wants them to do good through their own free will, even though there will be draw backs as we progress along the way.

Audience: If it is done out of fear, regardless of who is saying it, if it appears to be goodness out of fear, then it is truly not from the light.

JJ: When you don't let people have their free will to do good, what's the motivation behind that? You are afraid that if we give the people their free will they're going to go berserk. This is fear whereas if we give people their free will to do good we have to overcome our fears to be able to have faith that people will ultimately do what's right if they're given their freedom. That's a good point.

As far as the numerous teachers, there are a number of controversial teachers out there, Sai Baba, Benjamin Creme is another very controversial one, but the thing to look at is their actual teachings. There may be what's said about them on the negative or positive aspect and published about them may or may not be true but their teachings are their teachings so look at them. You can still learn from a person who is not entirely correct in his teaching and maybe be struck by something that will lead you to something that's true.

So let's say, the Urantia book is a controversial one. The Urantia book teaches that there is no reincarnation so those of us that believe in that would say the book is obviously wrong on that point. On the other hand a lot of people are stimulated by the Urantia book to search higher. So whether the book is true or false it leads people into searching. A number of teachers true and a number of teachers false lead people on their search. The person that is subject to the inner light, even when he comes across a false teacher will eventually sift out the true from the false and move on to higher grounds. Any more questions before we end it here?

Rick: That's something that I try to subtly point out various times amongst the Keysters is that we have a wide variety of different backgrounds. Sometimes people get into the stuff that you teach, and it becomes like religion, and it's like anybody that doesn't believe a certain way its like, "this teacher over here, he's all wrong" or "don't listen to Casey or don't listen to Ramtha" or don't listen to something or another. My attitude is that even if the guy is 100 degrees off, the people that are following are getting like one step off from sitting on the fence. It may be right and it may be wrong but at least they're not just sitting there doing nothing. What I've found is that if you get off the fence that means you're looking and if you're looking that means you'll analyze whatever your particular teacher is telling you and you'll eventually get to the next teacher. You might not stay with him. I don't like to hear anybody say, "Well this guy is totally wrong." He may have just that one thing that you needed to get you started and keep you going.

JJ: A lot of people I've taught have studied Sri Baba and have really liked him and that's fine. There are a lot of people in here who have had various teachers along the way. Maybe Lorraine really likes one guy and Diane doesn't like this guy. She thinks he's full of crap. But on the other hand they're both here and they're both becoming one in what is being presented at this moment. That's what is important.

If we're one in what's being presented in the moment and we can sense the truth that is there then we can move ahead as a group. Eventually all the differences will merge into the background and become one. So it is important that we be very tolerant and not condemn anyone because, "he likes Benjamin Creme so we're just going to cast him out of the group." That's not the way of doing things in this age. Realizing that everybody will have different ideas, different ideologies, different people who have inspired them and it all brings them to this point where we can learn and progress together.

Larry: A lot of folks here too, have different ways of saying the same thing. We talked about soul contact and you define that very clearly. Elly talks about being in touch with the Spirit I think you're really saying the same thing with different terminology. There are a lot of new age people, a lot of fundamentalist people. I come from a fundamentalist background. A lot of are saying the same thing maybe using different words and sometimes being more precise than others but our magnet, our compass is all swinging basically in the same direction.

Zofia: Like you were saying, not the same words but the compass of it. Pope John Paul II, I read his "Fate and the Brain". I read about 14 of his Encyclicals in the short version. The last one I read more carefully so I think it's all the same.

JJ: With a lot of us vocabulary gets in the way. What a lot of new age movements do is take things that are already taught in maybe the typical Christian Church and put fancy names to them and they think they've got something totally different. Then they think the churches are Neanderthal but maybe they're saying the same thing. Say, maybe the fundamentalist church talks about being born again in the Spirit and the new-agers talk about reaching their last lifetime. When you listen to them, they're almost saying the same thing.

The last step of the journey for a fundamentalist is being born again and the last step of the journey for the new-ager is to be reach enlightenment and reach that last lifetime. So it's interesting how the Christ Consciousness could apply to the born again too.

This is important and that's one of the things that inspired me to write the Principles of Unification. There are so many things that all the religious people of the world do have in common. I guess that we as a group have about 80 to 90% of our belief systems in common. Fortunately as a group we didn't let the little differences interfere and we were able to merge and have a good experience today.

So what do we do when there is a false teaching? I first got in trouble with the Mormon Church because I wrote a simple article saying that there was progression from one kingdom to another. The powers that be didn't like that idea. I spent some time telling some people that the authorities are kind of screwed up. It terrified them and nobody listened to me. Then I found out that when I went and just talked without mentioning any religion or anything that a lot of Mormons came to hear me speak. It's like a lot of Mormons are here now. I thought, "Boy, this is interesting. I guess you gather a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar.

So what do we do when we see a false teaching?

JJ: If we name names that puts people on the defensive and they begin to shut down. But if we just talk about the teaching, what is right and wrong about a principle then when people see the principle then they will eventually move away from the false teaching and the false teacher. We gather a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. The honey is the truth. We just teach the truth.

If Sri Baba or Ramtha or anyone has anything that's a teaching, let them present it then we'll analyze it and we'll give the principle behind it. When the principle is given a person who is at a high state of consciousness can see the difference between truth and error.

That's what to look for, the principle behind everything and to teach the principles. For example, one thing that bothered me about Ramtha was he said he completed his whole progression in one life. Think about that. Do you think it's possible to learn everything there is to learn about reality in just one simple lifetime when many of the eastern writings teach that you need hundreds?

How could one person do it in one life? That's a teaching that we can examine and present and let you think for yourself. Could a person do everything in one lifetime? The idea that we can't achieve perfection in one life has convinced many here of its reality.

Look at how much you've changed and also look at how difficult it is to change people. If you've ever been married before, you can see how slowly your spouse changes. How much has your spouse changed in the past five years? You may think you've changed a lot but to really understand change look at another person. We have difficulty judging ourselves sometimes. See how slowly those close to you have changed. How about the boss that you work for? How much has he changed in the past five years? He's probably still the same dunce guy that he was five years ago, right?

When you see how slowly people change their attitudes, imagine changing from a caveman-like guy to the Christ in one lifetime. It's virtually impossible. It's impossible to just develop love energy in one lifetime; from being completely selfish to completely loving. It's impossible to do that one thing. It's almost impossible to learn to be a good doctor in one lifetime when you're starting from scratch or to be a master musician in one lifetime. Yet in all of our lifetimes we learn all of these things. We learn all the basic principles.

So, with any teacher we can take his doctrine that he teaches and analyze it and ask if it's right or wrong. If he be a representative of the Dark Brothers somewhere along the line you'll see where he will teach against the principle of freedom. This is the dividing line. The principle of freedom will be in there somewhere. Every teacher will present freedom in either a positive or negative light that will be the discerning point.

Artie: I want to make an interesting note as you're talking about Ramtha. Ramtha likes The Immortal and had recommended that his followers read the books. We had an order of 400 books from the Ramtha group.

JJ: Right. So it's good that I didn't say anything too negative about Ramtha. (laughter) Their organization did buy a lot of the books.

As'af: Some of you don't know but I am a current student of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. I heard that JZ Knight invited you to lecture there. Why didn't you accept?

JJ: I didn't receive an invitation.

As'af: I heard that from Judy. It was posted on the Keys list.

Audience: Inaudible.

As'af: I answered that but I remember from your post that you say that she asked JJ to come and speak. No?

JJ: It must've been a misunderstanding. No, they never asked me to. I would've probably gone if they would've gotten a good enough group together. Everybody over there in the Ramtha organization was really enthused about the book. A number of the Ramtha people read it and become enthused about it so this is a good demonstration as to why it is good to use honey rather than vinegar. Don't close any doors. Every organization has some truth in it anyway.

Lorraine: All this reminds me of that one posting that you did about how if I am led by my spirit to go to a certain religion that doesn't mean that certain religion is the end all, be all for everybody else as well. It just means that it's important for me to go there at this time. I was led to the Mormon religion at a certain time in my life and at that time in my life it was necessary for me to be there. I know I needed that. I outgrew it by my own development but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. That doesn't mean that I have to force everybody else to go there because it worked for me. It just means that at the moment in time that's my development and I can or cannot outgrow it as I chose.

JJ: Right.

Audience: Inaudible (laughter)

JJ: All the different organizations are like schools and like I said, remember I said you have to learn what isn't true before you can really learn what is true. So we go through a lot of churches and organizations, learning what doesn't work. Then we're finally ready to learn what does work, like the twelve Apostles of Jesus. They learned everything that didn't work then they were ready to learn what did work.

Audience: I have never followed anyone's teachings. I have never belonged to a church. I've experimented but I don't feel the need. I have reached this conclusion and even higher from where I am through here, through my knowing. I didn't need to follow anybody else to know the truth. Is there anyone else like this? You've all gone to churches for some reason. You've felt the need or you've followed somebody else's teachings for some spiritual need. What makes me different? I still reach the same place.

JJ: You were probably a nun in your last life and now you've told yourself you don't want to be that anymore. (laughter) In previous lives you've done everything everybody else has done but we go through cycles. We go through cycles where a person may be a nun in one life and a prostitute in the next.

Often in one life you're totally opposite of what you were in the last life. In one life we may rebel. We may get so tired and sick of what we were doing that we'll be the opposite. So it's possible that in your last life you were very religious and it didn't make you happy or maybe your husband controlled you or something like that. I'm not saying that's what happened but that's a probability. Then in this life you say, "I'm not joining anything this time. I wasn't happy in my last life joining things so I'm not going to be a joiner." So that's entirely possible.

John: I want to thank everybody. This has been a very fascinating and stimulating conversation. There are a couple of things I'd like to share with everyone. I've been very blessed even though I'm obviously not moving around a lot right now. (he had a broken leg) Having worked for the airlines I've traveled all over the world. I've been to Prashanthi Nilayam twice to see Sri Baba. I've been to Dharamsala where the Dalai Lama lives. I was in Jerusalem in 1990 when Rabadan, Easter and Passover all intersected. It was a very powerful three days in my life. I just want to share that I've been exposed to lots of religions and I'm delighted in the sincerity I see in people all over the world in what they believe. I think there is searching all over the world. I think that because of technology and air flights today there's more mixing of cultures than has ever occurred. I think a lot of what we're going through right now is a sifting and learning process. I think a lot of it is with language.

In fact there's a book I'd like to recommend, if anyone is interested. I really appreciate what JJ said about the commonalities and not the differences. There's a book called The World Religions by Hudson Smith. He's a cute little man. He's probably in his 70's. It's one of the clearest books I've ever read in my life. In a very even way it talks about the different religions. I guess that one question I put out to all of us is if we happen to be born in India, chances are we'll probably be raised as a Muslim or Hindu. If we're born in Texas or Oklahoma chances are we'll probably be born a Christian, in Utah a Mormon. So a lot of it has to do with where we incarnated in a physical body this lifetime. It probably has a lot to do with what we've been exposed to. I would throw out that in all of this I think and I feel very fortunate that there are nuggets of diamonds and gold all over the world. The challenge for all of us is to see how it sits within and see how it sticks out. I just thought I'd mention that and pass it on.

JJ: Good thoughts.

Audience: I'd like to reiterate that. In fact I was just talking to As'af outside and we were talking about the conflict in the Middle East. I was telling him that I don't see that much difference between the religions that are fighting so fiercely. They all have some of the same principles and if they could see the commonality rather than the differences there wouldn't be any fighting.

JJ: The interesting thing about the Muslims is they seem kind of backward now but a thousand years ago the Moslem religion was the most enlightened on the Earth. They were the center of learning and universities. Many Christians, enlightened Christians, traveled long distances to learn from the Moslems. Now they've lost that to a great degree. Light seems to shift from one organization and from one place to another. It's interesting to watch it work.

Audience: When Denise was sharing her experience, it flashed in my mind that a contemporary definition of reincarnation could be, "Been there, done that."

Audience: My comment before when we were talking about reincarnation was another argument for it is I know that most people here knew that they've been around before when they were children, like I did. There were a lot of people who felt like, "I know things but I didn't learn them in this lifetime." How could you know that when you were 8 or 9 years old?

Audience: Along the vein of looking for commonalities, Larry mentioned it on the Keys list that there is a book that is called, The Message that comes from Everywhere. It looks at all the major religions in terms of what they have in common with each other. It also looks at the synthesis that's happening between science and religion. I don't know the author's name. Do you Larry? Gary Beckwith. It's a fairly quick read but it's well worth it and enlightening.

JJ: Maybe one more question or comment then we'll have to end here.

Jeanine: I guess what my comment has been ever since we've started this conversation is what I've found is as long as I was holding judgments of any kind, right or wrong, about anything, I couldn't make any clear distinctions or any clear decisions. I found over the past 15 years or so that I've been consciously releasing and letting go of my need to judge something as right or wrong. I found this place within that gave me the discernment, the distinction, the clear decision, a place I could trust. I didn't need to trust you, I didn't need to trust you or them or him or her. I learned that this place was trustworthy, not because you told us but because I found that clarity. That was freedom for me and it continues to be freedom for me as I move more and more toward that. For me freedom is my goal since I've been a little girl. I could think of nothing else but freedom.

JJ: It's interesting that none of here is perfect. None of us have a clear understanding. All of us say things now and then that may be incorrect. But when one of us gets up and speaks a truth, it can register with the God within in everyone here. When it does that we, as a group, will feel that truth register as one being. This is what a lot of people felt in the meditation this morning. They felt a oneness circulating here. This is because we, as a group, have on a number of occasions since we've gathered here registered certain truths as one unit. When this happens it allows a conduit for the Holy Spirit to flow through each one of us. When this happens we know we're headed the right direction.

Thanks a lot for your time. We're going to have a break.