The Man of Sin

2001-4-25 11:25:00

Susan posted part of the recent series on Sterling's list and Sterling (a former Key's member) has made several comments so I thought I would post my thoughts since these things may be of interest to some here.

In response to my article that men are also called Christs he writes:

Susan and JJ,

This is an awesome collection of scriptures about man's potential to become as Christ is.

I take no exception with this concept.

Where I take vigorous exception with your paradigm is not in the END, but in the MEANS.

In the gospel paradigm, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not only the END, he is also the MEANS.

According to your paradigm (the New Age paradigm), the means are within us, and we need not draw upon any external power to achieve the end spoken of.

There is a huge difference there. Huge.

JJ

First, it is not helpful to lump me in with your perceived notion of New Age beliefs. New Age and metaphysical beliefs are almost as diverse as Christian ones. For instance, it would not be productive to assume you believe in the Baptist doctrine just because you are a Christian. Overall there are common threads that go through orthodox Christianity and the New Age community, but within each there are many diverse doctrines and opinions. There are also liberals and conservatives, good and evil, enlightened and unenlightened in each group.

I disagree with many new agers as well as orthodox Christians on many points but also have points of agreement. I do not see myself as an orthodox believer in either group, but a synthesizer who takes the best of both to unite then into a working whole.

It would be helpful when taking issue with me to argue with what I actually say and believe rather than quoting a new age doctrine that I may be opposed to myself.

For instance, you say:
"According to your paradigm (the New Age paradigm), the means are within us, and we need not draw upon any external power to achieve the end spoken of."

Some new agers are inclined in this direction, but what you represent here is not what I have taught - and I have taught much on this subject.

I have taught many times that salvation is not 100% within or without, but we must use a balance of the two.

For instance, the Holy Spirit, is a Being who touches and teaches us from within, but The Christ is an actual entity in a physical body existing in the world without when he so chooses.

To become like Christ we must learn from within and without. I do not think we disagree here unless you believe that all learning and salvation must come from without.

Sterling continues:
Without Jesus Christ as the rock upon which we build, we have instead a sandy foundation and can/will be swept away by the deceptions of Satan and his demons who wait to destroy.

JJ
Think back to basic Mormon 101. What is the Rock on which the Church is to be built? Joseph Smith said very clearly it was revelation. And where does revelation come from? Generally it comes from within. And what stimulates it? Generally, some experience or stimulation from a teacher without. The balance of the within/without brings true revelation.

On the other hand, the scriptures tell us to not lean upon the "arm of flesh." In other words, we are not to reply on the authorities without, unless checking with the revelation from within.

100% reliance on one's image of Jesus or black and white interpretation of the scriptures from without is as dangerous as only looking within while excluding the evidence without.

Hundreds of weird sects think they have Jesus for their foundation and rock, yet some beat their wives and children, some believe in handling poisonous snakes and some rob the poor while they themselves live in luxury.

Saying you accept Jesus as your rock does not righteousness or right make, but feeling the whisperings of the Holy Spirit is an experience of truth verified without doubt.

Jesus is a rock to reply on, but we can only rely on him correctly when we have the core rock of which the hidden true church is built and that is revelation.

The Christ is indeed a rock to look toward for the rock of revelation and this I have always encouraged.

Without Christ and "holy men that ye know not of" D&C 49:8 to aid in revelation, teaching and assisting mankind we would indeed continue in our "fallen" state.

Sterling:
Hence, more than any other philosophy, the New Age philosophy is most effective in fulfilling on an individual level the prophecy in 2 Thes. 2, for it places fallen man (the individual man of sin) on the throne reserved for God (who has already overcome all things THROUGH Jesus Christ).

JJ
Let us examine this scripture. In the King James it reads:

II Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
II Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
II Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

JJ
What does the scripture tell us this man of sin will do? He will oppose and exalt himself "above all that is called God, or that is worshipped."

This assumed antichrist will exalt himself "above" two things:

First - "All that is called God."

And what is called God in the scriptures? Over and over men are called Gods there. Specifically, Moses, Abraham and the judges in Israel were called gods and Jesus himself said: "ye are gods." When referring to those who received the scriptures. John 10:34

So how will this man (or men) of lawlessness exalt himself above all that is called God?

He will see himself as better than his fellow men and women and seek the authority of a false God over them. He will become an "arm of flesh" to his fellow men and seek their adoration bordering on worship.

Secondly, he will exalt himself above that which is "worshipped."

What shall we worship?

Jesus said: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve." Matt 4:10

The man of sin will thus exalt himself above the one God we are all supposed to worship.

How does he do this?

He does this by taking the place of God and causing us to listen to his authority above the authority of the Spirit of the true God which is in us all.

The scripture tells us that the faithful virgins were those who listened to the Holy Spirit which is within. D&C 45:57

This man of sin has manifested in many forms since the days of Paul. He has manifested as an unjust authority in many walks of life which cause the deceived to ignore the Holy Spirit within and listen to a voice taking the place of God from without. These people are various ministers, priests, doctors, lawyers, politicians, teachers etc. Many there are who seek to be a God over you.

The view that I teach and is also held by some new agers as well as followers of the scriptures is that we are created in the image of God and as reflections we must seek to be one with God. When we are one with God we comprehend the oneness of mankind, and all life, and thus have no desire to exalt ourselves above others who are called God, or the one God we all, worship by various names.

To find this man of sin then you must look for one who seeks to exalt himself above his fellow men and seeks to be the voice of God with higher authority than the Holy Spirit within his brethren.

Sterling:
"Though a child might have the potential some day of being able to drive, do you place him/her at the wheel while yet a child? That is what the New Age does, and the results can be spiritually disastrous."

JJ
This analogy does not fit anything I teach.

Sterling:
Note your title: "We are Christ too."

JJ
That was not the title. That chapter was named: MEN ARE ALSO CALLED CHRISTS. I think I proved this beyond the power to refute from the scriptures.

Sterling:
You didn't title this "We can become Christ too." That statement I would agree with. But your statement as a blanket statement applicable to all is blasphemous, wrong, and spiritually disastrous.

JJ
I didn't make a blanket statement. I think we both agree that it is a long road to becoming as Christ, but it is a goal we can eventually achieve.