A Call to Repentance

This entry is part 4 of 40 in the series 2012A

My Friends:
A reader on freeread thought to best to call me to repentance so I have responded. Here is our dialog.

Mark:
Here are just a few of my thoughts on the topic.

Do you really think that all the prophets – Old Testament, New Testament, and Modern would make such a continuous, consistent emphasis on Jesus Christ being the Savior of the world if He really only removed the illusion of sin and guilt from His people or even that he helped to raise our consciousness?

JJ
That would be a pretty big deal in and of itself – more than any other prophet has done. But he did much more than this. He demonstrated to us that the ideal man was indeed a possibility toward which we can aspire.

There are a lot of people who think they are saved by Jesus who are still wracked by sin and guilt so it would behoove them to move forward and discover the mission of the real Jesus so they can be truly “saved” from their sins.

Mark:
You also mention that He faced the dweller of all of humanity allowing a connection to be made with the higher lives – I guess that is worthy of something, but most people have no idea what in the world that is.

JJ
I wasn’t writing this for most people.

Mark
But no, the prophets have placed their entire emphasis on Christ because he actually does cleanse us every whit from our sins as our Savior. He doesn’t remove the consequences of our actions for this would completely frustrate the plan, as you correctly point out, but he can (and does) cleanse us. The two concepts are different.

JJ
And that cleansing comes from removing the illusion of guilt caused by being deceived into worshiping the Beast of outside authority that takes the place of God. When the seeker receives the seal of God in his forehead and discovers the inner God, as did Jesus, then he is saved, cleansed – however you want to word it. Both the inner and outer Christ leads us in this direction.

Mark
A few years ago, when I studied the subconscious mind and its importance, a google search led me to the following anonymous personal testimony of Christ.

http://www.greaterthings.com/Essays/testimony.htm

It is a testimony not usually written and shared from those who have experienced this would deem it far too sacred to share. But alas, this individual did. I am glad he did because it helped me to understand the role of Jesus Christ. In my own past, I have really struggled with the role of Christ, the atonement, sin, the Fall, etc. etc. In fact, I believed in similar fashion to you – the atonement was merely symbolic for important principles of love and unity.

JJ
I’ve never said the atonement was symbolic. The release of guilt as happened to the guy in the link is a real event created by our solar angels to help us along the path in a way that the seeker can best relate to.

Mark
However, after reading and studying this testimony, I now believe that Christ received the keys to our subconscious minds through his atoning sacrifice.

JJ
Do you really think that the entity who is Jesus cares about all the jumbled information going through the subconscious minds of the billions of people on this planet? How much do you think about such things? I certainly do not and Jesus has much more important things to place his attention on.

On the other hand, when the seeker ascends in consciousness to the realm of spirit all things are available to him and he can tune into whatever and whoever he wants, or where the Spirit guides him.

Mark:
If we desire to live with the Father in the kingdom of God, we must have our subconscious minds re-programmed. We create from our subconscious. The fruits of our actions stem from our subconscious.

JJ
I disagree. Only consciousness creates. That which does not have consciousness cannot create.

Mark:
Through the Fall, we simply have corrupted programming and cannot endure the presence of the Father. Jesus Christ is the only one (who I know of) that can cleanse or wipe clean the slate of our corrupted programming.

JJ
Guilt is indeed caused by corrupt programming which was originally done by the conscious mind and can be undone by the conscious mind when the full truth is revealed or discovered. “The truth shall set you free.”

Mark:
So Jesus Christ is not just whistling Dixie when he says that the only way to the Father is through Him.

JJ
When the seeker progresses through the principles Christ taught and demonstrated he will eventually find himself linked up with Christ and entering through the same door he does but the truth of Jesus being the way to the Father is different than orthodoxy teaches. Orthodoxy is almost always wrong. You might want to read my book, The Molecular Relationship.

Mark
There is no other way or path. If you, JJ, want to live with the Father again, you cannot (no matter how many lifetimes you live) be able to enter into the kingdom of God on your own.

JJ
I’ve never said we get to the kingdom on our own. We need assistance from those who have went before us. Christ is “the firstborn among many brethren.” Rom 8:29

Mark:
You may find yourself in a wonderful kingdom, but the Father will not be there. You cannot make it without the intercessory work of Jesus Christ cleansing your corrupted subconscious programming. Therein is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Fall of Man is real and there is only one who can bridge the gap – through the real cleansing power of Jesus Christ.

JJ
You sound like a Baptist minister who quite possibly you view as unsaved.

Instead of repeating orthodox Jesus saves stuff one needs to find the principle that releases one from guilt so he will feel clean. This principle was taught by Jesus and amplified in the Book of Revelation where it is revealed how to escape the mark of the Beast by shifting attention from the God without to the God within. When this shift happens then you are no longer held captive by sin and guilt but can move forward with a clean conscience with intelligent progression.

Mark:
The new age and enlightened thinking is dangerous because it takes us from this message. I know because I was completely immersed in it and believed in it. When I was in it, I felt a spirit, but it was not a personal spirit.

JJ
What in the world is a spirit that is not personal? All entities are personal.

Mark:
It wasn’t evil; it inspired me and filled me with encouragement and excitement, but it wasn’t personal.

JJ
Sounds like it was from your emotional body responding to conscious thought.

Mark:
The only times when I have felt a personal spirit was when I have, in humility, sought repentance and a relationship with the Savior.

JJ
Hopefully we have both felt the same Spirit.

Mark:
The new age and enlightenment thinking has extremely intelligent ideas, intelligent thinkers, etc. It is truly for those who have difficulty with “orthodox” Christianity, churches, bureaucracy, etc. Within the new age framework one feels freer and gains more knowledge and most importantly fulfills the spiritual side of their lives.

JJ
This is a benefit of some new age teachings.

Mark:
Yet, it effectively removes the role of the Savior out of the picture. It did for me. It has for you too if you are honest about it.

JJ
You are lumping all new age (or metaphysical) teachings in one barrel and this is not correct. There are many views among the new age people as there is in regular religion. I have taught the importance of the principle behind the name of Christ which means “anointed to deliver.” Christ delivers us and we deliver others as we take upon ourselves his name.

Mark:
You include Him in your teachings, but you have never taught that true salvation comes through him – only symbolically, not literally.

JJ
I have never taught a symbolic salvation, but a real one that does come through Him and his teachings and guidance to the human race.

Mark:
You don’t view Him as your Savior. Again, I am not judging as I have been there myself.

JJ
You may have been there but not me. The problem you have with me is that I do not use the outdated good time rock and roll salvation train language.

Mark:
I followed Max Skousen for a few years until he died. He brought Mormons into enlightened thought through the scriptures, effectively discounting the plan of salvation and Christ. Well, I heard that a few months after he died, those who followed him had received dreams wherein Max came to them and told them to disregard his message and simply follow Christ. I didn’t believe this at first, but I do now ever since reading the anonymous testimony mentioned above.

JJ
I haven’t read Max Skousen so I can’t comment on him. I do simply follow Christ. What more do you want of me?

Mark:
Helen P. Blavatsky and Alice A. Bailey and many others have channeled amazing, incredible, intelligent information. However, I believe that at the heart of it – Lucifer (bearer of light), who is real, is behind the subtle move away from the Savior. If he can lead us away, no matter how knowledgeable we are, he has won.

JJ
Do you really think God is so cruel that his children who are doing their best but get mislead are going to be condemned for eternity? That’s silly. If your child is mislead, but doing his best you will do all in your power to set him straight. Jesus said that God is much better at helping us than we are with our own children so of course he will not give up on us in this world or the next.

You are stuck in the gospel of fear – fear that if you do not follow some orthodox teaching you will lose your salvation. If you have a sincere heart and follow the highest you know God will never give up on you or me.

Mark
As Enoch Tan wrote, there are two different types of salvation: Enlightenment through the Universal aspect of God or Salvation through the Personal aspect of God. Ultimately, in this lifetime, we are to pursue the Personal aspect of God through Jesus Christ as we can always gain knowledge about the Universal aspect of God in our eternal progression down the road.

JJ
How about doing both. It’s called balance.

Mark:
This lifetime is for us to sincerely repent, and be born again as new creatures in Christ and form a relationship with Him.

JJ
We didn’t come here just to repent, though when we make mistakes we need to make a correction and move toward Spirit.

Mark:
I would ask you to think about this and consider this in your life. What good is it to have all the knowledge in the world and speak and write of initiates, dwellers, middle principle, Sanat Kumara, Law of Correspondences, keys, the Gathering, illusion, brotherhood of light and of darkness, reincarnation, etc., etc. and “lose your own soul”?

JJ
Since when does knowledge cause you to lose your soul? You sound extremely judgmental here. Listen to the words of Joseph Smith who I assume you accept:
“A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world.” TOTPJS Pg 217

Mark:
Again, I do not condemn these things for they have value, but the value pales in comparison to our true purpose in this life of repenting and finding peace through the Savior. Like Paul said, without charity, we are just tinkling cymbals…with nothing.

JJ
I’ve repented and found peace. What more do you want from me? If you have the same peace that I do we will be two happy campers.

 

Copyright 2012 by J J Dewey

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  26. JJ,
    Wow. You gave this its own thread for everyone to see.
    Hey, your last sentence is really all you needed to express to me. By some of your writings, I just picked up that you subtlety had moved away from the important mission of Christ. I have seen this before with other people (such as myself) and I wanted to address it. If you say that you have found peace and repented, what more can I say? As you implied in your question, I do not want anything else from you.
    However, the two responses you gave pertaining to the subconscious mind I found surprising.
    The seminal work on the subconscious mind was researched and written by Joseph Murphy, “The Power of the Subconscious Mind.” I would invite you to read it, if you ever have any time. I would think time would be hard to come by for you.
    But yesterday, I had come to read some of your postings as I finally had some time. I noticed that you brought up Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich. Since you referenced him, I thought I would reference him re: his beliefs on the subconscious mind. (BTW, I agree with you on the whole infinite times infinite parallel lives. I believe God works within an elegant universe.)
    Mark Before:
    However, after reading and studying this testimony, I now believe that Christ received the keys to our subconscious minds through his atoning sacrifice.
    JJ Response:
    Do you really think that the entity who is Jesus cares about all the jumbled information going through the subconscious minds of the billions of people on this planet? How much do you think about such things? I certainly do not and Jesus has much more important things to place his attention on.
    Mark:
    Yes, I do believe that the entity who is Jesus cares about all the jumbled information going through the subconscious minds of the billions of people on this planet. I think he cares greatly about these things. These things represent every experience and emotion that has occurred in one’s life. If the subconscious mind is not cleansed every whit, then one cannot dwell with the Father, as the person will continue to produce bad fruit to use scriptural language.

    1. Continued…
      Here are some quotes from Napoleon Hill from Think and Grow Rich on the subconscious mind, which he calls the connecting link:
      “The subconscious mind consists of a field consciousness, in which every impulse of thought that reaches the objective mind through any of the five senses, is classified and recorded, and from which thoughts may be recalled or withdrawn as letters may be taken from a filing cabinet.
      Through a method of procedure, unknown to man, the subconscious mind draws upon the forces of Infinite Intelligence for the power with which it voluntarily transmutes one’s desire into their physical equivalent, making use, always of the most practical media by which this end may be accomplished.
      There is plenty of evidence to support the belief that the subconscious mind is the connecting link between the finite mind of man and Infinite Intelligence. It is the intermediary through which one may draw upon the forces of Infinite Intelligence at will. It, alone, contains the secret process by which mental impulses are modified and changed into their spiritual equivalent. It, alone, is the medium through which prayer may be transmitted to the source capable of answering prayer.
      The possibilities of creative effort connected with the subconscious mind are stupendous and imponderable. They inspire one with awe.”
      Interesting how the subconscious mind is described here by Napoleon as “an intermediary between the finite mind of man and Infinite Intelligence.” That sounds strikingly similar to the role of Christ – the intermediary between God and man.
      Anyway, I believe in the account of this anonymous person and now believe to understand more fully the role of Christ in being the way to the Father. He cleans our subconscious, which must be clean to produce good fruit.

      Mark Before:
      If we desire to live with the Father in the kingdom of God, we must have our subconscious minds re-programmed. We create from our subconscious. The fruits of our actions stem from our subconscious.

      JJ Response:
      I disagree. Only consciousness creates. That which does not have consciousness cannot create.

      Mark:
      Yes, but once consciousness creates it is recorded in the subconscious mind, which thereby continues “creating” below our level of consciousness.
      A long time ago, I remember listening to you talk (on YouTube I think) re: how to plant a seed in the mind of a woman to have her come up with the idea – to make it her own. The language you used was exactly like the language I have read re: the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind receives the seed from the conscious mind. The conscious mind is to “rule over” and direct the subconscious mind. In fact, the conscious mind is related to Adam or to the male and the subconscious mind is related to Eve or the female. Eve is the “Mother of All Living” or the creator. The subconscious mind is the creator too. From the subconscious mind springs our lives.
      Another quote from Napoleon Hill:
      “Everything which man creates, BEGINS in the form of a thought impulse. Man can create nothing which he does not first conceive in THOUGHT. Through the aid of the imagination, thought impulses may be assembled into plans. The imagination, when under control, may be used for the creation of plans or purposes that lead to success in one’s chosen occupation. All thought impulses, intended for transmutation into their physical equivalent, voluntarily planted in the subconscious mind, must pass through the imagination, and be mixed with faith.”
      There is much more to talk about than I can hear. Just thought I inform you of this and keep the conversation going.

      Regards, Mark

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    1. Ruth,

      Yes, I certainly do feel that God is with-out – Jesus Christ. He is certainly a God and He is outside of me. With that said, I do not deny the God within.

      Do you feel that worshipping Jesus Christ is following the Beast?

  28. Did you (JJ) or “Mark” write the paragraph that begins:

    “As Enoch Tan wrote, there are two different types of salvation…”

    I THINK Mark said this but it appears you did as you did not head this paragraph with “Mark:” so it appears as a continuation of your previous response to him.

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